Newbie 1040 ~ Murder in Newbville! ~ Game Over

[KittyMo]

Vote Count

[L-2] hiphop - (Uite)

[L-2] Uite - (hiphop)

[3]

Not Voting

- (AzBlueM, LordChronos, mikemike778)

With

5

alive, it's

3

to lynch!

Deadline is at Friday, February 18, 2011 at 7:40:00 PM (GMT-8)

.

[hiphop]

MikemikeFrom 1013, I found you were not town because of your improved play, but because I believe Xvart was more likely to be scum. Why I believe you to be town in this game?
1. In newbie 1013 I thought you were more in the shadows as in I hardly noticed you, this game it is the opposite
2. After Uite claimed cop, and even though he claimed an innocent on you, you still took on the offensive in presenting to everyone, 2 scumslips made by Uite after he claimed cop. Which if you were his partner, I believe you would have accepted his claim with open arms, and attacked me. Because of this doubt was created, by you at that, to the rest of the town, that just because Uite claimed cop does not make him town. I truly believe that if it were not for you, that this game would have ended.
3. I, like Thor(great player if you never have played with him before.), like to use every and any thing I can to find scum, and that includes wifom. And I believe that scum, would not, claim an innocent on their partner. For it would draw his partner out in the open, instead(as explained before) of keeping the partner hidden, where if the fake cop was lynched, town could not easily pick him out.

Now one of the reasons above may not make you town, but I believe all three makes it very likely.

How have you rebutted any of my arguments? Seriously, how does any of it point more likely to me being scum than Cop? Also, I never said that your defense was "just a show". That is a complete and utter lie. What I referred to both before and after your replacement were the weak and fallacious arguments I would expect from scum desperately trying to save themselves. You have nothing real to go on and you know it, so you are resorting to the most spurious arguments you can find.

Since obviously the first 2 paragraphs of your post concede my point, this will all be I say about them. As for the one above, can I not say the same thing as your last 2 sentences? Just because you claimed cop, does not make it so, and that is all you have, one can see that from your recent post.

LordChronos As I said before, how can there even be a thought that there would be a quickhammer, when the claim decided that for us? Thinking that there would be a quickhammer is just wrong.

As for the strawman part, I guess I did. However to answer your original point, of me misquoting uite,

3. Quoting parts of sentences is a great way to undermine people. Also it's very scummy.

You are accusing me of doing this, however quoting whole paragraphs, or linking to quotes where half the information is hidden is great way to make noise, instead of getting to the point. And the point is, I still believe that Uite was pushing to end the day. And if it were not for mikemike, he would have gotten his way.

Also if you truly believe I am scum, because I am scummy, and not because Uite claimed cop, then why don't you show your true colors by joining your partner in voting me?

kittymo My name is hiphop.

It is indeed! Thanks. -- KittyMo

[AzBlueM]

I see walls, I see really big walls. I really don't like really big walls.

mike, okay wifom, that doesn't really change that I don't believe the pairing because of Uite's actions today. Yes, keeping Uite alive may douse him in wifom, but I really think scum would NK a claimed cop. So again, I'm not seeing Uite+Iba/hhop as a pair because I don't believe in that kind of elaborate bussing manoevre happening.

And being that uite also lists him(generalization) that he would suspect him more than az(popular scum tactic putting your partner second in line knowing that town would lose after the first is lynched) Now I know that uite never said outright that he believes chronos is my partner, ( and he most likely will call misrep), but anyone can tell that it is in his writings.

So, I'm getting that you think Uite and I are the scum team or the signal your trying to give off is such? How does this argument even work? Mike (the guy most likely to survive until tomorrow if there is one) obviously thinks that I'm scummier than LC, so I don't see who this is even aimed towards.
Also, don't think I don't see the subtle buddy attempt in 581

Before this becomes a wall, let's refocus guys. The deadline is this Friday and we're still attempting to determine a)validity of Uite's cop claim (which is looking better because hhop is debating semantics amongst some other things that will need a reread)
b)showing which of LC or I is scum buddy, as Uite's claim looks better (hint: it's not me)
Imma gonna iso LC right now...okay, well after I get some sleep.

Also, if you guys are really that annoyed that I'm not around enough, have you considered politely asking if I'll consider getting replaced?

[hiphop]

And being that uite also lists him(generalization) that he would suspect him more than az(popular scum tactic putting your partner second in line knowing that town would lose after the first is lynched) Now I know that uite never said outright that he believes chronos is my partner, ( and he most likely will call misrep), but anyone can tell that it is in his writings.

So, I'm getting that you think Uite and I are the scum team or the signal your trying to give off is such? How does this argument even work? Mike (the guy most likely to survive until tomorrow if there is one) obviously thinks that I'm scummier than LC, so I don't see who this is even aimed towards.
Also, don't think I don't see the subtle buddy attempt in 581

Most people do not wait 3 days to respond, after saying they will read something
I am confuse by the first paragraph, please elaborate. Though the part that you quoted is saying that I believe Lord Chronos is Uite's partner.

Also, if you guys are really that annoyed that I'm not around enough, have you considered politely asking if I'll consider getting replaced?

Do you believe that you can devote enough attention to this game to help your side win? If not, then yes please ask for a replacement.

[hiphop]

forgot to address this

Also, don't think I don't see the subtle buddy attempt in 581

This is probably the first time I have ever been accused of buddying. Though I do not see how. All I did was agree with you, am I supposed to argue against something I agree with? Or am I supposed to ignore something that my voice can help the opposing side see my way of thinking, in the hopes that he will also come to believe?

[hiphop]

Since everyone decided to take a vacation today, I guess I will reinterate my case. First of all I would like quote

, I find that claiming at LyLo dilutes the power of the claim,

since it's a common scum tactic to throw PR claims around in LyLo to confuse town.

As we all know he did claim in lylo, coincidence? I think not. In which case Equinox also pointed out

what he did was breadcrumb his result so he could come back to it later. (The example in that wiki is a pretty obvious one. If you ever breadcrumb, I recommend using more subtle methods: spread your key letters across several posts and several points, not just the first letters of things, or even use cultural references that aren't immediately obvious.)

In general, having strong and verifiable breadcrumbs backs up a claim considerably.

And being that this is his first game as a Pr, he still says this

I like Equinox, I really do, and she was one of the major reasons I decided to replace into this game, but having played with her quite a few times, I don't regard her as much more experienced than I am. Frankly, I think we're about even in both skill and experience, so your appeal to authority fails miserably here.

He qualifies himself as experienced as Equinox, yet he never has been a Pr before? And when asked why he didn't breadcrumb he basically spat out 2 things in 2 sentences back to back.

I'm not in the habit of breadcrumbing. I'm not sure if I can crumb well enough to not make it obvious to scum who I am.

Still not exactly sure what he meant by the first sentence since he didn't bother to explain, after he said I was wrong. The fact of the matter is, as one can see from the above, he believes that breadcrumbing is useful, yet doesn't try. He said that he was afraid that scum would pick up on it, yet how can he get better if he doesn't do it at all? Is there going to be some game where magically it happens? No, the truth of the matter is, that he didn't breadcrumb was because he didn't want to commit himself to being a cop early on in the game, because he is scum.

Consider this though: he hasn't been quickhammered yet. If he were town, both scum would already have voted for him, thereby winning the game.

Then we have this thought. It is like he forgot that he claimed cop, and is thinking in the mindset as a vanilla. How can scum quick hammer when one of us is scum? They can't. It is impossible. And when asked about it he posts this

I was merely adding an argument for why he would be scum if you don't take my word for it.

Funny how he takes an argument that shouldn't even apply , or should I quote Uite

were the weak and fallacious arguments I would expect from scum desperately trying to save themselves. You have nothing real to go on and you know it, so you are resorting to the most spurious arguments you can find.

Also there is the reality of uite wanting to end the day before someone could properly defend themselves as quoted here

In other news, since Ibarra has been gone for so long, he might need to be replaced. If that happens, should we let it happen, or just lynch him instead?

Yup I have done that as scum. Get a quicklynch, by a pathetic argument.

Now if you think I am scum because of Ibarra replacing out, then I tell you that he has replaced 3 out of 5 times he has been on this site.(granted of course his other 2 were because of computer problems, but one of the 2 that he has stayed to the end he replaced in on the final day) If you think that is flaking is what made him scum, then I don't think anyone can quote it better then uite

I imagine nobody likes replacing in with a guilty on them

Think about it. Most likely all Ibarra was looking at, was the big Guilty. How can one defend against that? Well the truth of the matter is, just because he claimed cop, does not make him anymore townie than I am, in fact less so being he is scum. And I don't think he saw that. I actually find it stupid how before I showed up people were saying he was scum for lack of defense, yet after i showed up now people are calling me scum for too much defense. Seems to me that people are letting the fake cop guilty create bias, and are now creating reasons as to why i am scum.

If you think I am scum because of Rc, then I tell you, that not only has he played in more games than I(appeal to experience i know), but from the few games that I have seen from looking at random games, he is nothing but a VI.

And if you think I am scum because of me, then let it be for scummy actions. I would rather be lynched because of me being scummy, then lynched primarily because of information(aka guilty given by fake) given to town by scum.

And to go back on the buddying topic by az- If you think what you pointed out was buddying, then just to let you know it was not. I without a doubt do not buddy anyone that does not act like town. And the only person in this game that is alive that even remotely acts like town is mikemike. He is the only one that shows that he has doubt, which is what all townies should have that are not cops. He is the only one that has shown that even though he believes I am scum, he still is not sure that Uite is town. Unlike the other 2, which to me act more like their saviour has come with Uite's claimed guilty on me. Sure, don't even question it, but follow blindly to whatever a claimed cop says. So in reality, I don't believe that scum has won this game, but that town has lost it for themselves.

And If you do not want to read the whole post(though I do not see why not when nobody else has posted), then at least read the last paragraph.

[hiphop]

Mod is there any way, that you could use your wondrous power, and prod everyone. For the deadline is near.

[hiphop]

To everyone- If I am supposedly scum, who would my partner be at this point? Could it be possible that it is hard to find a match because I am not? Then take Uite, if he were supposedly scum, who would most likely be his partner? Could it be possible that it is easy to find a match because he is?

[AzBlueM]

hhop, if you accused LC of being Uite scum buddy, then I'm really just confused by the quote, did you mean second in line after you then?
I pretty much got that wrong, so I'll explain the part that I can: I thought the quote said you believed that Uite and I were scum together and I cannot see who the statement is aimed at as the remaining two people (LC and mike) both think I'm scummier than LC. Obviously that was wrong now.

Or am I supposed to ignore something that my voice can help the opposing side see my way of thinking, in the hopes that he will also come to believe?

I'm not quite sure I understand the question, but here's what I thought when I was typing that: Iba was most likely scum, who's rep now is agreeing with me, ergo buddy attempt.

(At this point, though I'm asking questions, I really feel that this game is dragging)
mike, how realistic would you grade the Uite/hhop scum pair? Why?
Uite, is there anything you'd like to add at all seeing as this is mostly like going to be your last day to post (barring gambit described by mike)?

LC reread is 1/3 through

Regarding replacements: I really don't want to screw you guys over by repping out in the final 3 days. That said, shit is piling up like shit does, so I'm not going to have a lot of time. So just as a general question, would you guys rather I rep out today or wait until tomorrow (assuming there's still a game)?

[mikemike778]

To everyone- If I am supposedly scum, who would my partner be at this point? Could it be possible that it is hard to find a match because I am not? Then take Uite, if he were supposedly scum, who would most likely be his partner? Could it be possible that it is easy to find a match because he is?

I'm leaning Az on both counts at the moment.

[mikemike778]

Mod is there any way, that you could use your wondrous power, and prod everyone. For the deadline is near.

Don't need prodding tonight thanks.

[mikemike778]

hhop, if you accused LC of being Uite scum buddy, then I'm really just confused by the quote, did you mean second in line after you then?
I pretty much got that wrong, so I'll explain the part that I can: I thought the quote said you believed that Uite and I were scum together and I cannot see who the statement is aimed at as the remaining two people (LC and mike) both think I'm scummier than LC. Obviously that was wrong now.

Or am I supposed to ignore something that my voice can help the opposing side see my way of thinking, in the hopes that he will also come to believe?

I'm not quite sure I understand the question, but here's what I thought when I was typing that: Iba was most likely scum, who's rep now is agreeing with me, ergo buddy attempt.

(At this point, though I'm asking questions, I really feel that this game is dragging)
mike, how realistic would you grade the Uite/hhop scum pair? Why?
Uite, is there anything you'd like to add at all seeing as this is mostly like going to be your last day to post (barring gambit described by mike)?

LC reread is 1/3 through

Regarding replacements: I really don't want to screw you guys over by repping out in the final 3 days. That said, shit is piling up like shit does, so I'm not going to have a lot of time. So just as a general question, would you guys rather I rep out today or wait until tomorrow (assuming there's still a game)?

At this point, replacing out probably isn't ideal unless a replacee would get an extention ...

[LordChronos]

To everyone- If I am supposedly scum, who would my partner be at this point? Could it be possible that it is hard to find a match because I am not? Then take Uite, if he were supposedly scum, who would most likely be his partner? Could it be possible that it is easy to find a match because he is?

The first question is not a hard question to answer. If you are scum, so is Az. If Uite is scum, I'd have to think whether mike or Az is scum. I think at this point still most likely Az, but mike had some scummy play at the start of the game too. His Day 2/3 play seems more town though.

@Az

I don't see the point of you replacing out with 2 days left til deadline.

[KittyMo]

Vote Count

[L-2] hiphop - (Uite)

[L-2] Uite - (hiphop)

[3]

Not Voting

- (AzBlueM, LordChronos, mikemike778)

With

5

alive, it's

3

to lynch!

Deadline is at Friday, February 18, 2011 at 7:40:00 PM (GMT-8)

.

Uite was prodded by request of hiphop.

[AzBlueM]

66% through iso, LC, just wondering why did you never push the RC wagon D2 after Kishi came under suspicion?

hhop, if you're scum, then LC would have to be the other. If Uite is scum, I don't think you would be, I'm leaning more LC than mike for that.

deadline is in 1d19h, I'm willing to place my vote down on hhop by tomorrow, though if there's any conversation left to squeeze out of this board, that would be nice.

If Uite isn't on within 9 hours of this post, please prod him

Regarding my replacement: I will request it after hammer today.

[hiphop]

At this point, replacing out probably isn't ideal unless a replacee would get an extention ...

mod?

Azblue- Yes I believe it is uite and Lc. And just because I agree with you does not mean I am buddying. I like the statement so I agreed. It is like when someone says QFT(quote for truth) after a quote. They agree, and believe that others should pay more attention to the quote. If nobody agreed then town would never win.

Nobody has anything else to add as to why Uite is scum? Is nobody else scum hunting? I mean surely I must have missed something. As I said before, scum did not win this game, town lost it for themselves.

And Az if you are planning to hammer me, than forget the replacement. The game would be over. How much have you read from when I replaced in? From what I can tell not much.

I'm not too excited about replacing out being used as a strategic move. I'll make my decision if/when the time comes. -- KittyMo

[hiphop]

Iba's lack of defense is incriminating as well. If he is scum, then he knows his team can still win, so he doesn't need to try to avoid lynch as much as if he is town (where a lynch on him is a loss).

Not going to say the same thing about Uite? Especially when we are this close to deadline?

[hiphop]

last post if hammer goes thru in next 18 hours.

Az- I ask you to reconsider who really is scum, and place your vote on Uite instead. Or do you really want the game to end that badly?

[Uite]

I'm sorry I've been absent at this crucial stage in the game, but I simply don't have the time right now. I should be able to respond tonight, so look for a post from me then.

[LordChronos]

66% through iso, LC, just wondering why did you never push the RC wagon D2 after Kishi came under suspicion?

I must admit I am slightly confused by your question here. On page 18, where both the RC wagon and Kishime wagon had 2 votes, I continued to push the RC wagon. If you are asking why I didn't push it after Kish went to L-1, that might be because there was a 2 hour interval between the L-1 vote and hammer.

[Uite]

Okay, there was less to respond to than I expected; hiphop's posts really are 70% noise.

First, this discussion of AzBlueM replacing out is ridiculous. In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with her activity this game, and in fact I believe she's been playing rather well. I've commented on this before, and I just don't see the problem you guys seem to have with her.

Now, since hiphop seems intent on ignoring them while trying to attack me, these are the clues I'm telling the truth:

• Laying low before my claim.
  
• Actively trying to move the game forward and getting people to participate after claiming. (Except the past few days. Sorry about that.)
  
• Backing off Mike after getting an innocent result.

As far as I can tell, you haven't refuted a single one of these, instead focusing my lack of crumbs, a perceived angling for a quicklynch, and a wholly irrelevant bit about another game. The first of those I had good reason for, the second takes my words out of context and ignores pretty much everything I've actually been trying to accomplish this Day, while the third is nothing but fluff. Anything I'm missing here?

Now the deadline is tomorrow, so people should be getting ready to vote right around now. In case anyone forgot, letting the deadline pass without reaching a majority means a No Lynch for today, which is a scum win if there's no successful Doc protection.

[hiphop]

• 1.
• Laying low before my claim.
  2.
• Actively trying to move the game forward and getting people to participate after claiming. (Except the past few days. Sorry about that.)
  3.
• Backing off Mike after getting an innocent result.

1.Not attracting attention to oneself, lurking-----sounds like scum. From my point of view not only when someone thinks of lurking they think of scum. Or do I have it wrong that scum want to draw attention to themselves?

2.Trying to get the day over with----sounds like scum. He claimed cop, therefore it is either they believe him, and I am scum, or they don't and he is scum. He obviously would want the day to go as fast as possible, so people would not question his cop claim. Typically people just "follow the claimed cop". Which is why it is just a cliché. Also the key words in his statement are "after claiming" Not before, so that he could accurately find scum, but after so that people will believe his so called claim. Any town cop player would obviously try to promote posting throughout the game, for not only would it make his job easier in finding who actually is scum, but it will also show who is town so that he won't waste an investigation on them.(I have never been a cop day 1, but that is my take on it) Seems to me that the only reason he has been more active is so that people actually believe him as said here(notice also now that people have shown they believe him his activity has gone back down), and in defense of my claims against him.(which are still standing) Also, when one has a reason to go after one only person, it makes it a lot easier to post. Which reminds me, all this talk of let's find the partner is just words. For when I actually said that we could lynch az or Lc instead, Uite seemed to think it was a bad idea, however it would have put pressure on the real partner, thinking they might get lynched too. Seems more like a scummy thing to not even make it look like it wasn't going to happen. Also his actively trying to get people to participate is a bunch of bs. Look at what he wrote above

In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with her activity this game, and in fact I believe she's been playing rather well.

Anyone who says her activity is just fine, and she has the same the least amount of posts, while in the same post claims "actively trying to get people to participate" is full of it. Funny how he once has not complained about the activity since I have joined(even has fallen behind), seems to me I am promoting the activity and not him.

3. Backing off Mike when he

says

(<--bolded the says) he got an innocent. 3rd vote on mikemike, 3rd on reaper, 4th on kish----Sounds like scum. Never starting his own wagon, except when he

says

(<--bolded the says) he got a guilty on me. Seems to me he didn't go back onto mikemike, because then he would be only the second person on mikemike. And that would be all wrong because scum generally don't help start bw's but finish them. Which is why the L-1 and hammer votes get so much attention. And as I said before obviously he could have hatched this backing off mikemike stuff night 1(certainly not in the beginning because he replaced in), which would give his credibility if he was ever pushed into a claim day 2, or a more ideal spot in lylo.

Now, on the idea of committing oneself, generally not what scum do because it ties them down, my player spot actually committed themselves in rc's first post. Whether you like it or not that is more town than you think.

Now that I have explained why you should not listen to the scum, explain to me, why I am scum. And none of this, because the cop said so, because IMO there is no cop.

[hiphop]

I'm not too excited about replacing out being used as a strategic move. I'll make my decision if/when the time comes. -- KittyMo

I don't want a replacement either, but when someone doesn't even have the time to read the thread, then imo a replacee would be better. For they might not have read the thread either, but at least they would be around to post on the current events. As you can see, this is the second time Az has said he would post since I replaced in, and both times she seems to have missed her mark. Either way it doesn't matter anymore, because az said he wasn't going to replace out today, which in all likely means a town loss today.

[mikemike778]

Might not be on again before the deadline so I have no choice but to vote .

Not convinced at all either way to be honest. However ... Uite's story and actions are believable and the strongest case against him seems to be the lack of bread crumbing which I'm not convinced by. Although I don't like at all his attempts to lynch before Ibarra was replaced and the wording on a few other posts was ropey.

Hiphop has been the best player in that slot ... but I don't get his apparent certainty I'm town or his attempt to dismiss any possibility of a Uite/Hip team and the play by other members of that slot has been consistently questionable. Overall looking at the two slots if you knew one was lying and one truthful you would not want to back the Hip slot so ...

Vote Hiphop

Congrats to Uite if you are a bad ass.

[hiphop]

Hiphop has been the best player in that slot ... but I don't get his apparent certainty I'm town or his attempt to dismiss any possibility of a Uite/Hip team and the play by other members of that slot has been consistently questionable. Overall looking at the two slots if you knew one was lying and one truthful you would not want to back the Hip slot so ...

Vote Hiphop

Congrats to Uite if you are a bad ass.

Still a vanilla. Just checked my pm again.

At least you actually thought about it. Neither of the other 2, whichever is the town, even looks like they are doubting the claim.

Also, I don't even think I have ever been in a game where scum doubts a town read. Even myself, I let it slide by when I am scum. However when I am town I question them to they give me a good answer, I even compare myself to their scum reads and ask why is it that they are scummy for a certain action, when I did the same thing.