Newbie 1040 ~ Murder in Newbville! ~ Game Over

[mikemike778]

I can see why it would look strange. Consider my perspective though: I know that I am town and that Ibarra is scum. So why would I consider the scenario where I am lying? I was merely adding an argument for why he would be scum if you don't take my word for it. Though yes, if I really were scum, I would only need one townie to mistakenly vote for him and my buddy could quickhammer. That's not what's happening though. I need two townies to vote for him, unless Ibarra's buddy decides to bus him in search of towncred. Which is why I'm looking for additional arguments.

It seems very strange indeed.

I'm sure you know that everyone here is aware that the fact that he has not been quick hammered does not in the slightest mean he is more likely to be scum. To even suggest it, is misleading intentional or otherwise.

[KittyMo]

Vote Count

[L-2] Ibarra - (Uite)

[L-2] Uite - (Ibarra)

[3]

Not Voting

- (AzBlueM, LordChronos, mikemike778)

With

5

alive, it's

3

to lynch!

Deadline is at Friday, February 18, 2011 at 7:40:00 PM (GMT-8)

.

[LordChronos]

The absolute only thing that the lack of a quickhammer on Ibarra means is that either you are he is scum, Uite.

[LordChronos]

The absolute only thing that the lack of a quickhammer on Ibarra means is that either you are he is scum, Uite.

God my typing skills suck some times. That should read "you are or he is ...".

[AzBlueM]

Iba, Andy was scum that game and you were scum w/him, nice try though. Moreso, he said softclaim, not outright claim.

Well I was hoping that Uite simply mistook who he investigated, but I really seems unlikely that he did.

This sounds like BS, given the circumstances...this really sounds like BS. I'm vaguely reminded of RC "oh yeah I'm supposed to vote FA" from D2.

mike, could you point out where Eq said you'd be a good investigation target? (as a side note, cleared townie doesn't really mean anything, IC does though). Your point about going into lylo is valid, I guess since I've only seen cop used the "find scum amongst ppl who don't seem scum" way, it seemed kind of weird.

This just seem a very weak and nonsensical attempt to possibly justify voting a vote on Uite.

This seems like a weak and nonsensical way to toss around suspicion.

Uite, how does that qualify as a crumb, especially a cop crumb? (bad time to ask this question, but are crumbs role-specific?)

LC, why come back one and a half hours later just to add one word?

Given the link Iba just gave, and his case on Uite basically centered around hammering (which I don't know why everyone has such a problem with) I'm going to vote him, not now though, there's a few more glaring possibilities before I'm assured enough to vote.

[Ibarra]

Iba, Andy was scum that game and you were scum w/him, nice try though.

If you read further you would see Andrius geniunely saying that he saw it as a town tell. (This was when the game ended already)

Moreso, he said softclaim, not outright claim.

Hmm. IMO Wraith softclaimed but they came out as a genuine claim later on. Everyone seemed to accept the softclaim as a "claim" already.

[Ibarra]

So basically in Lylo you wanted to lynch me because I was one of 2 players (Az being the other) to put their vote on a townie. Interesting ...

At that time, before Uite and his cop "claim", you were the only one leaning scum for me.
My reasons for that may look lacking, but why wouldn't you target someone you have a scum tell of.

This sounds like BS, given the circumstances...this really sounds like BS. I'm vaguely reminded of RC "oh yeah I'm supposed to vote FA" from D2.

Well that's how I honestly felt at that time.

[Uite]

The absolute only thing that the lack of a quickhammer on Ibarra means is that either you are or he is scum, Uite.

I guess that's true from your perspective.

Uite, how does that qualify as a crumb, especially a cop crumb? (bad time to ask this question, but are crumbs role-specific?)

It doesn't, and I've said as much. Like I said, I'm afraid to do real breadcrumbs, and that is the closest I'd allow myself.

[LordChronos]

So basically in Lylo you wanted to lynch me because I was one of 2 players (Az being the other) to put their vote on a townie. Interesting ...

At that time, before Uite and his cop "claim", you were the only one leaning scum for me.
My reasons for that may look lacking, but why wouldn't you target someone you have a scum tell of.

Actually, I was leaning scum for you as well. See my post at day start.

@Az

I'm picky about my writing.

[mikemike778]

mike, could you point out where Eq said you'd be a good investigation target?

post 324

My dilemma: I have a gut town read on mikemike778, but I reason from mikemike778's early and mid-late posting that he's scum. If there is a cop out there, I request a scan of this guy to settle this once and for all.

Not saying you should follow the IC's request but you certainly wouldn't criticise anyone for going in that direction.

[mikemike778]

Feeling at the moment ... in a newbie game with a 50/50 chance of a cop I just don't see why Reaper would play the way he did if scum. It could all be WIFOM but he must have known it could lead to an investigation. Seems to me more like vanilla townie play.

Marginally leaning Uite being scum at the mo.

[KittyMo]

Vote Count

[L-2] Ibarra - (Uite)

[L-2] Uite - (Ibarra)

[3]

Not Voting

- (AzBlueM, LordChronos, mikemike778)

With

5

alive, it's

3

to lynch!

Deadline is at Friday, February 18, 2011 at 7:40:00 PM (GMT-8)

.

[AzBlueM]

Uite, that kind of reminds me of the whole "LC wasn't talking to you, why'd you post" thing from yesterday where you pulled a quote and said it meant something I totally didn't think it meant. Yeah, I don't see it either but at least you said it wasn't a crumb this time in the original post.

mike, okay, I missed that, I suppose ppl are inclined to listen to Eq as she's IC. Is the RC wifom the only reason why you're leaning Uite scum?

Iba, well, I'm under the impression that ppl aren't excepting RC's firstpost claim here as they did w/wraith in that game. Why didn't you link Andy's endgame quote the first time?

[Uite]

Feeling at the moment ... in a newbie game with a 50/50 chance of a cop I just don't see why Reaper would play the way he did if scum. It could all be WIFOM but he must have known it could lead to an investigation. Seems to me more like vanilla townie play.

Obviously it wasn't though. And even if he were a VT, it's suboptimal play, since getting investigated as town wastes an opportunity to catch scum.

Uite, that kind of reminds me of the whole "LC wasn't talking to you, why'd you post" thing from yesterday where you pulled a quote and said it meant something I totally didn't think it meant. Yeah, I don't see it either but at least you said it wasn't a crumb this time in the original post.

Yeah, sorry about that. Things like that are usually much clearer in my head, but once it's out people often have trouble following. I'm not sure what causes that, but it happens to me in real life too.

[mikemike778]

mike, okay, I missed that, I suppose ppl are inclined to listen to Eq as she's IC. Is the RC wifom the only reason why you're leaning Uite scum?

Pretty much ... I'm indifferent on Uite. His story as a cop stands up but his play would make perfect sense if he was scum as well.

Vote probably will be based on judgement on Reaper in the end probably unless anyone can pick out something new on Uite.

[mikemike778]

Obviously it wasn't though. And even if he were a VT, it's suboptimal play, since getting investigated as town wastes an opportunity to catch scum.

Agreed.

[Uite]

Obviously it wasn't though. And even if he were a VT, it's suboptimal play, since getting investigated as town wastes an opportunity to catch scum.

Agreed.

I'd actually like to nuance this a bit. Being investigated as town isn't completely bad of course, which my wording might imply. An innocent is of course very handy when narrowing down possible scum. Right now I know three out of five alignments, and I know one scum has to be among the remaining two. It also prevents possible mislynches, like might have happened with Mike. I feel that the cause of the investigation is important here, and I think it's more useful on a scummy player than a more ambiguous one, as was the case with Mike and ReaperCharlie Day 1, since the scummy player is more likely to be lynched. This is of course completely debatable, with others saying you should investigate the ambiguous first, but that's probably best left for MD.

[LordChronos]

I am working on re-reading again to look more closely at Uite and RC/Ibarra. Thus far I am still seeing RC/Ibarra as scummier.

[AzBlueM]

Erm, not much else to say atm. Uite's consistency about his POV reads better than Iba as a whole, so cop claim looks rather credible to me. In particular, his 541 appears townish in my mind as I'd think scum would post less if fakeclaiming but Uite posts more and expresses his own opinion then cuts himself off before it degenerates to theory discussion. The other reason I think cop claim looks credible is mike's suspicion about Uite being scum after he named mike town, which makes mike seem townier, supporting Uite's innocent on him (though scum!Uite would know mike is town too now that I think about it).

[AzBlueM]

VLA Saturday/Sunday, scholarship apps have snuck up on me

[Uite]

Dead thread is dead. It's LyLo people! Let's lynch some scum!

Speaking of which, can we get a prod on Ibarra?

[LordChronos]

Almost done re-reading. I think at this point I'm leaning with Uite-town, Iba-scum. Iba's lack of defense is incriminating as well. If he is scum, then he knows his team can still win, so he doesn't need to try to avoid lynch as much as if he is town (where a lynch on him is a loss).

Not going to vote just yet, but probably soon.

[Ibarra]

Iba, well, I'm under the impression that ppl aren't excepting RC's firstpost claim here as they did w/wraith in that game. Why didn't you link Andy's endgame quote the first time?

It was the first post I found after skimming.

If he is scum, then he knows his team can still win, so he doesn't need to try to avoid lynch as much as if he is town (where a lynch on him is a loss).

I already did my best in defending. The fact is that I cannot defend RC's actions as I did not know the motive behind them. I tried my best to, but ultimately I can't defend what I don't know the reason behind of.
I don't like losing as much as the next person, but I feel that I cannot do anything anymore. Almost everyone already believes in what Uite is lying about.

Let me state this once more though:

I am a Vanilla Townie

- as RC claimed from the start.

Perhaps I was wrong about my view on gut vs. analysis. Let me ask you guys this though:
What is your gut telling you? Am I scum or town?

[AzBlueM]

Dead thread is dead. It's LyLo people! Let's lynch some scum!

Wasn't the purpose of delaying the lynch to find the scum pair?

Iba, your gut read is scummy, RC's was neutralish, leaning slightly town strangely.

[Uite]

I wouldn't say it was the exact purpose of delaying, though it's an opportunity we'd be stupid to let pass. So far, no-one has really made any movements in that direction, so I wasn't too sure if it would happen at all. Then again, if you want something done, you have to do it yourself, and I've failed there myself. Sorry about that. Here's what I know: Ibarra is scum, Mike and I are town. That means that the second scum is one of LordChronos or AzBlueM. I've said this before. However, I really don't know which of the two it is. Both of you seemed pretty much town to me before.

AzBlueM has played a solid game so far, asking lots of questions and being fairly open in her reasonings. She was on both lynches though, which casts a bad light on that. Then again, Mike was on both lynches as well, and he's town. LordChronos seems a bit more guarded, though he's also good with asking questions. He shares his opinions less readily though, but he wasn't on either lynch, which seems unlikely for scum. As you can see this is quite a tough nut to crack, but if forced to choose right now, I'd probably go with LordChronos, because his relatively closed play reads somewhat less townie.

It occurs to me that the both of you know more than I do, because the townie among you knows the other has to be scum. The actual scum has of course known from the start...