Mini #1004 - Popularity Mafia (Over)

[Xite91]

Okay, so

Vote Andrius

for claiming to be unpopular when he's probably the most popular one out of all of us

[Xite91]

Yes, but then there are scum who could say they had a lower popularity level , so less popular townies try to qt with them. Also, scum could then pick and choose whoever is lower than them and more impressionable and there you have it, you got a townie convinced that scum is town because of a qt
I dunno why, but the way you're going about things seems almost like role-fishing...
so FoS Friend

[Xite91]

I agree with vollkan completely. That's what I had in mind when I suggested it. And I highly doubt that the level of popularity is tied to anything (PR-ness, alignment) so I don't think claiming it is rolefishing, like you said xite. Also, xite, why do you think scum would be able to fool a townie in the QT, when if they're that good at playing scum, they'll probably just be fooling them in the thread anyways?

If you choose the right people you can make a "good impression" on them and they're convinced you're town. Then they don't even have to work so hard to fool people in thread cuz they got a townie to do that.

I think that it is, but that's just cuz

[Xite91]

Uhm, yeah no, bad idea.
I would vote for him, but he's at L-2 now isn't he?
I'd rather a claim or something first

But hey, I do like that he sticks to his convictions, even if it is my policy to lynch self-voters.
(which I should probably help do, but like I said claim first)

[Xite91]

Oh shit, just looked at the game and I think I mixed it up with another I'm in for votes...
so yeah

Unvote: Vote Tasky

I'll help push him

[Xite91]

Xite, what popularity level are you?

I second this, given that it is a massclaim.

I could have sworn I posted these exact words
"It say's I'm the least popular person in the group, doesn't give me a number though"
But, alas I didn't so either my internet decided to fail during a post or some (semi)innocent group of people got it in another game

[Xite91]

No, I ISO'd myself, couldn't find it

[Xite91]

Ooh, ooh pick me!
Looks like we're going to lynch Tasky anyways
By the way, would quick lynches be good in this game? Considering the nifty neighborizing idea?

hehe three way quicktopic

[Xite91]

ok, just wondering

that was a joke

[Xite91]

well, I actually just noticed a way you can tell
I usually post after a joke

[Xite91]

One flaw in your plan, though
The QT is for one night only, isn't it?

I am too, but I figured this might be a special circumstance

[Xite91]

Oh ok,

Thanks Llama!

@Longing
I already do
Only thing is, not everyone does, that was what I was pointing out

[Xite91]

By the way, would quick lynches be good in this game? Considering the nifty neighborizing idea?

+2. Noob scum throwing out a fishing line to see if there is support for an utterly insane idea.

ok, just wondering

that was a joke

How was that a joke? It could have been a joke if you'd said: "Wow, neighbouring sounds awesome; let's quicklynch to get to it", but you didn't. You asked a question to everybody, and then claimed it as a joke when the idea was swiftly kicked.

I am too,

but I figured this might be a special circumstance

+2 Great. Thankyou for admitting you just lied.

Unvote, Vote: Xite

Uhm, can I just say something real quick?
Youre a dumb

I was saying the we're alsmost surely going to lynch tasky today was a joke
I was saying that it might be better if we each kind of interrogated each one people on our own one at a time, not that it was for sure it'd be good, but a possibility

It was an idea to end day 1 early so that scumhunting might be easier. I wasn't even saying every day, I was saying day 1

I NEVER claimed that the quicklynch thing was a joke
I don't joke about those things

[Xite91]

Ooh, ooh pick me!
Looks like we're going to lynch Tasky anyways
By the way, would quick lynches be good in this game? Considering the nifty neighborizing idea?

hehe three way quicktopic

well, I actually just noticed a way you can tell
I usually post after a joke

Also, it's kind of hard to take that out of context if you're not selectively reading

Unvote

I need to give this game a re-readthrough before I put my vote anywhere

[Xite91]

Okay, went through the whole thread and found what I think is interesting...

I'll start with Friend

I'm still curious to the reasoning behind the soft VT claim. Generating discussion doesn't seem to be enough.

There was no VT soft claim
Simple as that

Andrius and others: What are the pros and cons of a mass-popularity level claim? I'm fairly new to this whole thing so if this is a dumb idea please tell me

Ok, so you're the one that started this whole mass popularity claim idea right?

I know that a mass popularity number claim wouldn't be hugely beneficial in terms of scumhunting, but it would help ensure success at neighborizing. That's all I wanted to get.

So you just want to because it could help neighborizing? but not scum hunting... hmm

I agree with vollkan completely. That's what I had in mind when I suggested it. And I highly doubt that the level of popularity is tied to anything (PR-ness, alignment) so I don't think claiming it is rolefishing, like you said xite. Also, xite, why do you think scum would be able to fool a townie in the QT, when if they're that good at playing scum, they'll probably just be fooling them in the thread anyways?

I like this idea too. But yeah, we should wait 'til everyone's said their piece on the matter before we start claiming numbers.

Then what was with the VT claim statement before??

I think most of us are in favor of this...so who wants to start? Andrius and then we can just popcorn from there, or go by the playerlist, or have everyone shout it out at once, doesn't really matter.

So you're the one pushing it again...

So which one is it? you do or don't think that popularity levels have to do with roles?
For the record, other than the basic, preps will be more popular, and so on and so forth ideas, I have evidence to believe that power roles ARE effected by popularity level.

And as for the popularity claim push thing, just pointing that out for future reference...

Next, i'll go with Vollkan

Interesting point. I'm not sure if it is a flaw, though. My reasoning proceeds as follows:

1) Assuming that such a role could be used in passing period

n

and then the target has the new rank in passing period

n + 1

, then the biggest risk is simply that the person they speak to, if it is somsebody that they could not have spoken to before, will accuse them of having lied about their ranking.

2) However, we already know that it will be impossible for scum to lie at the initial claim stage because they will get counterclaimed.

3) Accordingly, any purported change in popularity ranking will have to be true

The fact that the changes would be caused by a power role (though, we don't know of what alignment) instinctively makes me think that such changes should not be changed. Reason being is that, as a general rule I think, a person would want to increase the ranking of somebody they consider pro-town (so as to give them more choice) and decrease the ranking of somebody they suspect (so as to reduce their ability to pick their scumbuddies and avoid exposure to the town); hence, claiming changes, (publicly, since people might well target somebody they think is likely town and tell them about the change) could out a PR. So, at this stage I don't think changes should be publicly claimed.

Regarding the bolded bit there, they wouldn't be able to. If we all said "target the person below you in the list" then anyone who didn't would be automatically pointed out as scum. They would basically be forced into neighboring with the person below them or being known as scum.

The problem is that saying "Target the person below you" or any other rigid formulation removes any ability of town to individually target and interrogate a particular player they suspect, or collaborate with somebody they think is town. Hence, we need to have a free choice; in which case, we need to claim those choices and (because reasons are always good) the reasons why.

1) Considering everyone's idea that lies = scum, that is a big risk
2) We weren't completely sure of this... Just saying
3) wha?

I think for today, we should do everyone target person lower than you, this will guarantee some night talk for town no matter what and we can have that if they didn't, they're probably scum.
Tomorrow we can let it be free choices and see what happens

Just to let you know, I've learned that the biggest fault of town in mafia games is that everything becomes black and white. Lets try not to do that

Regarding some of your other posts

Vollkan there are plenty of chances of outing a PR in that case, but there are also plenty of chances NOT to.
Here's some possibilities of that role

1) Talking with someone in their QT makes that person's popularity go up/down
2) They can target one person per night to bring them up one (or more) popularity level
3) They can target one person per night to bring them down one (or more) popularity level
4) They can do either 2 or 3
5) They can do both 2 and 3

Now the rest of it, I'm just going to post in order.

Tasky, what they were doing with the role thing was more setup speculation/gaming the mod than IioA
You did pull IioA yourself, but with the idea of analyzing it it seems.
Tasky does not seem scummy for this, just misguided

Friend fighting with him over this concerns me for some reason
And the wagon seems somewhat unwarranted at that point, Friend, making me more suspicious of you
Next, why is Vollkan one of the morep pro-town players at that point?
I mean, it was page 3 and he only posted 4 times
And nothing he wrote made me either here or there with him
Can you explain please?

Tasky, self voting was really stupid, and I voted you for it out of policy. (Although it did make me laugh )

Friend, trying to get an opinion from me, not really scummy but worth the question, why only me?

Volkan, I know, I do it on purpose all the time. Just a saying I've come to call my own

[Xite91]

EBWOP, I totally meant to do this

Vote: Friend

[Xite91]

First, Yes I see it scummy, because I have reason to believe that Power-Roles are linked to popularity, not less popular = scum, why would I even say that if that were the case??? I'm just saying based on flavor text and such that I think that power-roles are based on popularity.

Yeah, but you said he was "the

most

pro-town player" not just a pro-town player. To me that is a bit more interesting

I never voted for him that I remember, until after I posted about him (AKA when I said it was a policy of mine to vote self-voters)
I don't think I even said his name before that... Unless we're talking about different questions, in which case, what question are YOU talking about?

[Xite91]

Okay, so it was the same question, but let me point out the order of operations
1) I don't say ANYTHING about tasky all game
2) You ask me the question
3) I point out that I hate self voters, and that the only reason I'm not voting is because I think he is at L-2
4) I vote, realizing that there weren't hardly any votes on him at all

After all this you say this

I asked you the question because you hadn't mentioned Tasky up to that point, just voted him for the sake of "helping push him."

But if you look at the order of operations, that is a terrible explanation

You saying he was pro-town is not a scumtell
I was asking how he seems "arguably the most pro-town"
IMO considering its only been like 2 days since this game started, I'd argue that the ones that haven't posted are the most pro-town at this point
Also, he doesn't seem so pro-town to me so I'm confused
Plus, it seemed like an obvious buddying-up tactic

And I never said that the most popular/least popular person gets power roles, I'm just saying it's more likely based on flavour text that prs are in the higher area of popularity, that's all. I'm not saying all of them are at all, I'm just saying it's possible.

[Xite91]

Why can't we use the target one below you for the first night?
I mean the qts go on for the rest of the game as mod has tolds us, so we could use that to our advantage.
After that I don't think we should claim who we chose to mason with until it's important to (ex: it will help with a case)

[Xite91]

EBWOP and considering it's D1 I think that's the best choice because then EVERYONE gets a tell on someone. This we can use going into day two.
Afterwards, I think it should be up to individuals to choose and when necessary say who, why and what info they got from it.

[Xite91]

In regards to saying someone saying (Andrius IIRC) he wasn't that popular

Oh...
I was gonna ask but I didn't want to rolefish. Why do you feel the need to out that so early?

No, I didn't want to rolefish. If I had gone ooh Andrius tell me more about your unpopularity I guarantee someone would have called me out for rolefishing. Just wanted to make sure you were okay with saying your unpopularity publicly before I said anything.

But I thought you said that prs weren't linked to popularity in your opinion?

Also

I think it would be best that everyone at night talks to the one who is just one step under them in the popularity scala, so that everyone (save nr.1 and nr.12) has 2 neighbors and there is no one who doesn't have a neighbor...

I like this idea too. But yeah, we should wait 'til everyone's said their piece on the matter before we start claiming numbers.

But later you agree with max?
Unless youre talking about agreeing with something else he's said.

Also I've seen an almost obvious attempt from you to buddy up with at least three separate people already

in regards to your last post - But my question was why did you want to know my opinion?

And the reason it was scummy that you would push a claim was that you even said yourself that it wouldn't be beneficial to scum-hunting

yeah, my vote's gonna stay

[Xite91]

My mind has changed over the course of the game. It happens. People made logical, convincing arguments as to why certain things were/weren't true (popularity-PR link, the "one person below you idea"). I agreed with them. Since when is that a scumtell?

It was just interesting to me that with minimal discussion from you or really not even that much on that topic you went from one end of the spectrum to the other.
I agree it's not the best case in the world, but it's page 6 and you're the scummiest tell to me in the game so far, so I'm gonna let it be known, and at least I'm telling you why instead of going , oh and friend is scum.
Also, just a little point here, friend seems to me like if he is town, he's the exact type of influential townie that I meant when I opposed the claim

[Xite91]

I’m just reading thru the game and typing my thoughts when they come to me.

1)I believe that freedom to choose whoever you want to befriend is the way to go, because of what somebody brought up- Scum can just take advantage of the extra information to plan their nightkills accordingly.

2)@xite- I do not think its a good idea to have short days. It gives us less information to work with.

3)I think it would be a bad idea to claim who we befriended, until it is necessary, because if we claim, scum can use that information.

4)Also, I think that the day is more important than the night, because there are much more people to analyze information in posts. so I think we really need to reduce the discussion about the neighborizing issue. it is distracting me from reading people.


5)My dislike of xite is because he is confusing me.
@xite, I do not see where friend is buddying up to people. can you point this out to me?

1) how?
2) noted, it was just a suggestion
3) said that IIRC
4) Makes a little more sense, just saying though, that if done right, everyone can have a little interrogation cell of their own with X amount of people in it after so many days.
5) No problem

And Andrius, we can be friends!

I know this was in response to rvs but lookie here

Andrius

and others: What are the pros and cons of a mass-popularity level claim? I'm fairly new to this whole thing so if this is a dumb idea please tell me

Why add Andrius instead of just saying everyone?
then

I think most of us are in favor of this...so who wants to start?

Andrius

and then we can just popcorn from there, or go by the playerlist, or have everyone shout it out at once, doesn't really matter.

Again why him?

Next

Tasky, what do you hope to acheive with your wagon? There's nothing vollkan can defend himself from. I mean, my vote was on there cause of a Phoenix Wright-related avatar. Wagoning for the sake of wagoning isn't going to accomplish anything. Now, wagoning some scummy, like yourself, can.

Not exactly buddying up, but could lead to more of it

I agree with vollkan completely. That's what I had in mind when I suggested it. And I highly doubt that the level of popularity is tied to anything (PR-ness, alignment) so I don't think claiming it is rolefishing, like you said xite. Also, xite, why do you think scum would be able to fool a townie in the QT, when if they're that good at playing scum, they'll probably just be fooling them in the thread anyways?

I think it would be best that everyone at night talks to the one who is just one step under them in the popularity scala, so that everyone (save nr.1 and nr.12) has 2 neighbors and there is no one who doesn't have a neighbor...

I like this idea too. But yeah, we should wait 'til everyone's said their piece on the matter before we start claiming numbers.

In regards to the first part, this isn't the only time he whole-heartedly agrees with someone.

The second isn't a big deal until I add the post I already pointed out

I agree with Max.

Another agreement, completely opposite to the one before. Yes this wouldn't be scummy on it's own, but you, Friend, seem to be trying to appeal to everyone, something I mostly see in scum

Oh yeah, we can't forget about the most obvious attempt to buddy up in the whole thread can we?

And why would you like to start a wagon on vollkan, who has arguably been one of the most pro-town players so far in this early game?

That's at least 3 right?
Again, may not be buddying up
But definitely AtE

[Xite91]

Uhm, I just showed you how it's AtE
considering that you're agreeing with everyone and all

1) yeah, but with the next two, you should see my point
2) Seraphim and I did too
3) I don't recall, but that makes some sense
you were throwing his name out a lot though, makes me suspicious
4) said that, then said that it could lead up to it
5) AtE (agreeing with people like you have been seems like it to me)
6) ^
7) How isn't it?

pretty sure I have my facts straight

[Xite91]

Ok, so you're the one that started this whole mass popularity claim idea right?

1) To be fair, I think I mentioned it first, and vollkan claimed first.

2) I noticed that you didn't bother mentioning me at all in that big post of interesting things. :/ This like reverse buddying?

@andrius, I dont know, it was just a question. (popularity being nonrandom)

3) Look at your role in your role PM, and see if it could explain your spot on the popularity ladder. That's why I think popularity is nonrandom.

4) Ok, so I'm really torn on some of the players, namely Friend, Xite and Tasky. They're all relatively new here, so I keep looking at some actions as n00by (including some of the buddying, but again, I was the most active poster.) However, while they are newbies, they did sign up for a theme game, which is inherently harder, so they brought this on themselves, in a way.

1) May have missed it, will re-read. I really think it was him first (I went back and checked on the first person to mention it when I made my big post of things, part of the reason I noticed friend at all)
2) Nope, just not seeing anything scummy/worth mentioning from you yet.
3) Exactly what I've been saying
4) Please don't blame it on noobieness we could be alts, or in my case played elsewhere. I thuroughly believe in what I'm saying.

How isn't buddying a scumtell? Is that your question?

And you have a wrong definition of AtE btw. Agreeing with people is not AtE.

And yes, that is my question. It seems to me that buddying is almost always a scumtell. Maybe not every time but a lot of the time.
Appeal to Emotions? Uhm, that's what it seems like you're doing. Therefore AtE

[Xite91]

@Nic, it's the way he does it that seems to me like AtE
I'm going to be nice and not repost my whole post, you can just go back and reread it. It was my tell on how he was doing it, that's all.
The other part, where he asks for a massclaim, that was because he himself said, it probably won't lead to catching scum, which to me meas useless info until we find reason for it.
I don't see what you meant about the nk though. Yeah, they can prevent certain pairings, but that in turn leads to more information.

@Andrius
1) on reread, he was the first one to mention a mass claim
all you did was soft claim your popularity
4) uhm ok?

[Xite91]

Woo-hoo another post-by-post

Xites wall-o-text seems like scum desperation.

Prana makes an excellent point about scum being unable to simply not neighbourise someone, further reinforces max's points.

First, other than the wagon on one and the extreme suspicion on the other, how are we obvious targets? Second, yes, I'm stating a case, I won't post the quotes I need for such case? WTF?

Still not getting that point with the neighborizing...

@xite- I'm unsure on how to approach you. Your case on friend is full of crap. Do you have any stronger evidence that friend is scummy other than what you pointed out?

The first sentence, I will show you why you feel that way in about 10 seconds
The second, yes, that's what I'm about to show you

Okay, guys to me it wasn't a ridiculous question because of the way neighborizing works. If I planned it correctly, everyone should have 4 people to talk to individually by night 3. Then cross-referencing can be used the rest of the game. I understand that days are SUPER important to the town, but this was just a suggestion. k? k!

I'm not sure what to make out of the interaction between Sando and Tasky. On one hand, it looks like Sando is truly attacking Tasky, and Tasky is OMGUSsing, But on the other hand, Tasky has a good point about Sando' weak reasoning. hmm.

I still think that scum can be found in Xite.

First, easy targets much?
Second, why can scum be found in me?

@Tasky, on the contrary. neighbors targeted on N1 will take effect on N2. So if scum knows who the targets are on N1, they can plan kills on that knowledge, on N1. If people have freedom to choose, Scum will not have that knowledge until D3, so that would help the town, i think. Am i incorrect in my thinking here?

Slightly, considering if planned correctly, everyone can have 4 neighbors by night 3... just sayin

Other than that, I don't really get your case on me.

It would be poor modding to tie popularity levels to PR-ness, IMO (as in the top 3 most popular students are PRs, the bottom 3 are scum, whatever).

I called vollkan pro-town because that was the feeling I got from him. Nothing more, nothing less.

I asked you the question because you hadn't mentioned Tasky up to that point, just voted him for the sake of "helping push him."

Do you find me asking for the popularity claim scummy?

I don't see why it would be.

I said "arguably." There's a difference.

How would PRs be based on popularity? That makes breaking this game way too easy.

I still don't get the case by the way. Calling someone pro-town is not a scumtell, what I did was not rolefishing, and other than that...I don't think you have anything.

I agree with Max.

Xite,

I got my order of things mixed up then. Sue me.

I wanted to know your opinion, that's the point.

LOL

Quote-by-quote:

1. RVS comment
2. He was the only one posting in-thread at the time
3. He volunteered to claim first
4. ??? That's not buddying
5. Agreeing with people...whoa
6. See above
7. vollkan was, in my mind, acting very pro-town. That's the only one that I guess could be buddying, but even that is not a scumtell.

No AtE (show it to me) and no buddying. Get your facts straight.

Xite's case is laughably poor

, but I'm not entirely sold on him being scum yet.

Those bolded times? That's all the times he responded to my case by saying, oh you're wrong

but in your terms mostly

, or your case is null or such and such. Dismissing it as nothing... Just seems like an interesting reaction to me, and it seems to make the rest of you think the same way

[Xite91]

Xite, get a grip. Your case

is

weak. It can be forgiven, however, as Friend shouldn't shrug it off just because it's a weak case. It isn't well formulated and in the first few pages I don't feel that friend should have said that he thinks people are town. Though that's not enough to lynch someone.

Questions to All

- Do you feel that The Player

one

above you on the ranking list is scum?
- If you had to choose now who would you lynch?
- Who do you think is most town at this time?

I would like evidence and from these 11 posts I will determine who I feel is town and scum.

Teehee, youre funny
First, I admitted that my original case was weak, but it's getting stronger, at least in my mind.
And that post with all the quotes showing how friend was fighting back was to show that he really wasn't saying anything, mostly get your facts/definitions straight, or oh you're wrong. And IIRC it wasn't only me he did it to. (I think it was t{r}asky )
Part of my problem is that I haven't really seen him actively scumhunt, just state fallacies in non-game breaking points.
Do me a favor, go ISO him, see what I mean. He doesn't seem pro town to me at all...


1) This is gonna sound crazy and I know i'm gonna get some sort of shit for this, but aside from the self vote (albeit somewhat obvious joking i hate self voters) and bandwagoning for the sake of it, I don't see tasky as too scummy. I more see jumpy townies as jumpy and scummy scum as trying to push an easy lynch.
2) Friend or else my vote would probably not be on him
3) I dunno, everyone's iffy in this game. I'd probably say seraphim or thelonging because I haven't seen much of them yet. (ME! lulz, softclaiming townie, that's really cute, also seems a little noobish TBH)

@Xite- I saw the same thing that friend did. What i see in the bolded parts is friend not getting your case against friend, then you are now using that against friend. I do not like this. Friend is not dismissing your case as nothing IMO, it is your case that is weak. I am not sure what you mean by "easy targets much?". What i saw was Tasky and Sando attacking each other. It just struck me oddly. About the neighborzing thing, my concern is not in night three, but night two. Hypothetically, if scum knew the plan for neighborzing, they would be able to eliminate both of an single person's neighbors, rendering that person worthless in discussing what happened during the night. Also, a preset plan prevents the town to scumhunt during the night.

2) I would lynch xite. I feel that his case on friend is useless, and when attacked for it, he seems to be panicking a little. Pulls out crap reasoning, really.

First, Uhm, if it was a free choice, scum could just pair up with scum (if you're going with the idea that scum want to avoid townies like the plague)
Second, if someone died and we all were targeting the person below us, the only way anyone would not be talking to someone would be if they killed the second or second to last person on the list, assuming there's not some odd thing where I

can

pair with the top dog. So I don't see much of a problem considering scum will probably go for townier players first night rather than anything else.

Now about my case on Friend, I never panicked, I simply tried to make it a little clearer to see why I think he's scum, but you guys seem to have your head so far up your asses cuz I posted a simple suggestion that could get a simple yes or no answer and be done with it. Push past that and see that hey, maybe I am making a good point.
And it wasn't that he didn't get it most of the time it was more like he was avoiding it.

First, other than the wagon on one and the extreme suspicion on the other, how are we obvious targets?

and

First, easy targets much?

So I'm silly for suggesting that you and Trasky are easy targets for being the top 2 suspects, not to mention the reasons for being the top 2 suspects, but you feel the need to attack NicolBolas for bringing up 'easy targets'? Hypocritical much?

First one, i was just curious how we were easy targets.
Second one, everyone was so adamant that we were such easy targets, it seemed like he

was

making an "easy" attack at that point.

Oh, should have explained the xite vote - he's my second suspect, mostly for the extremely poor case he laid out on me + pushing said case after I explained why it was poor.

Oh, I'm sorry, don't recall you saying why, just recall you saying it was and shrugging it off.

unvote

just kidding.
But I might if you show me these posts

[Xite91]

Sando seems a little too aggressive.

Aggressiveness is not bad, but I think Sando is being a little overagressive. Scum is usually more aggressive than town.

+2

Aggression is NOT a scumtell and accusing Sando of being "overaggressive" is just throwing around an empty smear label that discredits him despite not actually relating to any flaw in his argument. Aggression is entirely a playstyle thing.

First, I admitted that my original case was weak, but it's getting stronger, at least in my mind.

Why is it getting stronger?

I dare you to point out the posts where I say this.
In fact it actually goes like this;

Sando seems a little too aggressive.

Aggressiveness is not bad, but I think Sando is being a little overagressive. Scum is usually more aggressive than town.

So who's your +2 on now?

Also, Hey guys sorry about this but I just spent about 12 hours at the hospital, and then about 9 hours sleeping because of medicine and lack of sleep. Now I'm on fun medication that makes me super loopy so I'm going to try to play the game but I have to warn everyone how bad that could be. That being said, I lack all energy to scumhunt at the moment, so I'll save you guys the trouble unless I feel it necessary to point out something.

[Xite91]

Wait, uhm, player points? That doesn't seem to have to do with much, IMO, but we'll see.
And I am thinking a lot before I post. Overthinking? Maybe, but I'm convinced I get a scum read from friend.

[Xite91]

xite, you didn't even respond to my last post. You saying I'm ignoring or shrugging off your case is a blatant lie.

Also:
UNVOTE: xite91
VOTE: Tasky

I'll put more pressure on. I think VV has a point about xite's overeagerness.

Uhm, considering that your last post was to VV and something about an alt?
Or did you mean a different post? Not sure which one you're talking about anyways.

[Xite91]

That as to VV and Vollkan i think?
Do you mean the one about me reading you in ISO? I thought I responded to this, first considering I have ISO'd you a few times to figure you out a bit more, and 2 I have no idea where it is, just point out the post? Makes things easier on everyone. Also, that was your defense is a little more solid.

[Xite91]

oh was is supposed to be way

[Xite91]

so you're talking about this in response to post 129

LOL

Quote-by-quote:

1. RVS comment
2. He was the only one posting in-thread at the time
3. He volunteered to claim first
4. ??? That's not buddying
5. Agreeing with people...whoa
6. See above
7. vollkan was, in my mind, acting very pro-town. That's the only one that I guess could be buddying, but even that is not a scumtell.

No AtE (show it to me) and no buddying. Get your facts straight.

then I responded with post

Uhm, I just showed you how it's AtE
considering that you're agreeing with everyone and all

1) yeah, but with the next two, you should see my point
2) Seraphim and I did too
3) I don't recall, but that makes some sense
you were throwing his name out a lot though, makes me suspicious
4) said that, then said that it could lead up to it
5) AtE (agreeing with people like you have been seems like it to me)
6) ^
7) How isn't it?

pretty sure I have my facts straight

also, on 1 I said it was in RVS in the first place, and that it didn't seem like buddying until 2 and 3
4 I said it wasn't buddying but that it looked like a first attempt to
5 was AtE because people tend to like you more when you agree with everything they say
7 did you ever answer this?

Another shrugged off answer was all that was to me, this time just by a post-by-post

[Xite91]

If you say telling not to quicklynch is a nulltell, then why do you think my motivation is scum-based? I got back on the wagon because I felt enough time had passed and you were acting just as scummy. My thoughts on xite were also somewhat swayed by VV.

What, specifically, about the buddying argument do you like?

Do you realize that I've shown how all of xite's examples were extremely poor?

Again, I did dispute this and you ignored it, twice.
Then you didn't show anything, you just said they were multiple times. Just sayin.

[Xite91]

Max, Nico, and Vollkan stick out to me
Also, leaning a bit with vv too
but these are mostly-gut reads (as in they are all based off of gut and very little case to them, not I have gut reads on 3 and a case on 1)

[Xite91]

It's not that I can't make a case on them, there's just not enough to do so
you asked me who I think, not who based on a case.
I am thoroughly convinced that you are scum, partially because it was interesting that you asked me who was scum specifically to say, ohai make a case on them then (AKA averting attention)

[Xite91]

No, I'm not tunneling because I am looking at other people, you're just top on my priority list.
And i like this next post where you're attempting something that seems like a straw-man like omgus... it's interesting

[Xite91]

You're already scummy to me, but it was interesting that if you were to really attack me, it would probably be seen as OMGUS, so you ask andrius to do it for you, which i think is a form of strawman.
I said that I can make cases on them, but they're small points that have mostly been discussed. If you want them I can make them, but prolly not till mornin (i'm havin a sleepover pow wow thing )

[Xite91]

Oh, sando, if you'll read games I'm in you can see that I always post walls for cases, because I feel it's considerate to show what your case is on and then make the case. It wasn't panicked or desperate at all. I simply scum hunting and Friend is my best choice as to who's scum.

Honestly, I didn't feel I was getting a lot of pressure from the quick day end thing because I was just planning things out in my head and things made sense to me, but yes day is more important now that I've thought about it in every scenario.

[Xite91]

@Vollkan, in context, probably, but considering I have no remembrance of what a litmus test is I'm not saying yes for sure *researching*

[Xite91]

Researched and agreed

[Xite91]

@Sando, yeah I agreed with him on something that is mafia theory, not this game specifically, why is that important?

@Max, yeah I'm in quite a few games, but considering I have no life right now because medicine/possible surgery and house Wife-type-role gives me a lot of time not to have to do real work (kinda) so I get like 16 hours on this site a day as long as I'm not going out, which is rare lately. I give as much focus as possible to each game, and I actually post in order of the "oldest" last post. That's irrelevant to my play style in this situation.
But the point is, I was called out on a small point at the same time I was noticing a scummy player, add these together, sudden mass amounts of posts.

[Xite91]

Thing is I'm pretty sure you're not tunneling when you have other suspects and are working on a case for them, but can't get it quite right and therefore don't want to cause even more mass hysteria when people are finally putting a little bet of suspicion on you, the person that I would prefer to be lynched today.

[Xite91]

Thing is I'm pretty sure you're not tunneling when you have other suspects and are working on a case for them,

but can't get it quite right and therefore

don't want to cause even more mass hysteria

when people are finally putting a little bet of suspicion on you,

the person that I would prefer to be lynched today

.

Okay so let me make this clearer
1) I make case on you
2) hysteria is caused by not only this case but two others
3) During this whole thing I get more tells
4) I decide not to go into it because at the moment it's pointless, and the cases aren't enough to push anything.
5) you ask me who I also think is scum
6) I answer
7) you try to convince me to go after them as your case gets picked up by others
8) I keep on you
9) you accuse me of tunneling, which I may be doing a bit of, but I do have other suspects, I just don't suspect them as much as i do you


When I have enough of a case on them that I feel comfortable calling them scum with (aka about 70-80% certain they're scum), I will push after them.
Now you look even scummier. Sorry, friend, I'm staying on you until you're lynched or someone else is without my vote

[Xite91]

I never claimed that I didn't vote him for self-voting, I just decided there were more important things to take care of.

Sorry guys, I'm having a lot of dificulty keeping up with this game, I hate doing this but;

@Mod - please find me a replacement

[Xite91]

Hi Xite. Long time no see.

Do you still find Friend's slot scummy? I do. If you help me lynch him I'll neighborize you. <3

I lol'd a little. Haven't been keeping up with the game, TBH. I'm working on a read-thru, will post when I've finished it though. Until then, carry on good people!

[Xite91]

okay, I haven't even gotten halfway thru the game yet, but here's what I got so far.
First, to those of you who neighborized my slot, I apologize on it's behalf for not saying ANYTHING, but hey, you guys could have started the convo too, ya kno.

Tasky is scum because sando flipped town
Friend's slot still seems a bit scummy to me, but not as bad as Andrius' last post to me, considering how Ray came after him with good points.
VV based on an early read, you seem scummy to me.
From what I saw of volkan, he is also kind of scummy. He needs to start posting his ideas and standpoints on players, and of course actual cases, instead of, oh that's not scummy.
I also have a bad vibe from max.

Still reading through, so if some of these people have been replaced, please inform me. For now,

Unvote, Vote Tasky's slot

(in case it's not him anymore)

[Xite91]

Nope, I usually have more scum reads then town, but right now, those are the scumnies in my opinion and everyone else seems town right now.
Why did you just get so angry at that? Just wondering

[Xite91]

Well stop it, it's intimidating

[Xite91]

ISOing each person that I'm interested in, and then if I have time, everyone else.

@Parama
Your first post that's not "Hold on, I"m V/LA" seems like genuine scum hunting
"You are your predecessor's role" - I'll keep that in mind.
Parama, I'm of the mindset that you're just really good scum in this game, you're manipulative, you make good cases, and you get townies lynched. Also, I just find it odd that you went for sando, the same person your predecessor was going after. (it's just a strange coincidence, especially after you've said your feelings about tasky.) The fact that he flipped town just makes you more likely to be scum.
Also, I like how you lined up the next lynch with the whole Andrius idea.
Post 59 - You used a bit of meta for yourself, saying that you played the same either way, what do you say about that?
Okay, now that I've read your posts

confirm vote: Parama

You're still scum

[Xite91]

@Andrius
Your welcome post rubbed me the wrong way. This is my reason for ISOing you.

Still waiting on 1/4 of the town

.
This is like one of two games I'm alive in, so I am posting a bit much. lol

Hmmm.

Interesting slip...

Didn't see much from him in his first ISO page. Just the slip and supporting a massclaim.

Max
TheLonging
Sando
NicolBolas

His list of people that hadn't posted.
NicolBolas posted after this.
Willing to bet that Max and TheLonging (or their slots) will flip town if Andrius flips scum
I mean, hey Sando did.

I would like to clear up that I am not new to this game, just this site.

He seems to be just asking everyone questions that should be asked, but not really pushing for any lynches. A form of fence-sitting.
Haha, bad math skills? In a school-based setting? That's sad.
If Andrius flips scum, I'm willing to bet that Friend was scum based off of gut.
Really? Even with voting you don't seem to be accusing anyone of anything, just wagon-hopping
Take your Sando vote, for instance. That is an up-and-coming wagon (two people have started the wagon, you're the third to jump on). Oddly enough, it was a wagon started by none other than the last person you were voting.
Again, townies usually don't skim over things when they've been active all game. They try to analyze EVERYTHING. Just sayin
"There's scum on almost any given wagon, so I'm right there. Err, correct there."
I'm really getting tired of the excuse "I'm lazy"
You seem to be flailing suddenly. Too much pressure?
If Andrius flips scum, RC is town. No exceptions
Your biggest case on anyone is "They haven't even read the thread" I've seen this against at least 2 people (but I think three) But you just skimmed over massposts, so doesn't that mean that you haven't read the whole thread either?
Some Parama defense based on... meta????
Okay, I got about 3 and 1/2 pages thru andruis' posts and I have this hatred for caps, so I'm going to not read the rest for now.

I'm thinking Parama/Andrius/Ray ATM

[Xite91]

First off, you're funny.
Second, I said that because of the way that Tasky pushed for a lynch on sando pretty soon after he started getting a lot of attention.
He used a handful of AtE saying, when I get lynched, go after Sando. It just seemed off to me.
Vollkan was scummy because he wasn't so much making cases, just pointing out inconsistencies in cases. It wouldn't have been scummy, but he didn't follow up on them or anything, he just seemed to be making the points to make it look like he was contributing.
Max was blending in way too much.
Those two had nothing to do with sando.

It's so adorable that you decided to ignore me. I'm willing to try to get you lynched just to see how long that lasts

[Xite91]

I'm thinking Parama/Andrius/Ray ATM

Also, I like how you lined up the next lynch with the whole Andrius idea.

There goes even more of your logic against me.

No, those are a scumbuddy team, not a "If this guy is town, this one is scum"
Also, if Andrius does turn up scum you're "confirmed town" right? Isn't this what we call bussing?
Also, with an added bonus, you got a townie mislynch yesterday

Hey wait a second, I thought you were ignoring me?

[Xite91]

And now he's clogging the thread, and gaming the mod...

Invote, Vote Andrius

[Xite91]

EBWOP

Unvote, Vote Andrius

[Xite91]

But by your logic against me, they SHOULD have something to do with Sando.

How should they? I think you're the one with the skewed logic here.

And now he's clogging the thread, and gaming the mod...

Invote, Vote Andrius

"Gaming the mod"? What is that supposed to mean?

Not clogging the thread. I'm posting, which is more than some people care to do.

Using your role name as a reason for why you're not scum? I'm pretty sure that's gaming the mod
And i meant the huge posts with pictures?

[Xite91]

Using your role name as a reason for why you're not scum?

I'm pretty sure that's gaming the mod

AKA saying that "Why would the mod give me a role name like this as scum?"

[Xite91]

Oh.
That's called WIFOM, Xite.

Not exactly, that's what people use against each other, when its things about the setup, it's usually called gaming the mod.
Also, did you role-claim? I'm not finding it

[Xite91]

I didn't roleclaim.
I'm not at L-2 or higher and I'm in no imminent danger.

It was presumed that I had softclaimed twice D1, which I didn't do.

Okay, then why should I take you at your word when you say your role-name makes it so you aren't scum?
PS. I'm not asking you to role-claim, just don't understand what you were trying to get at

[Xite91]

Its like this:
Let's say we're playing WWII leaders mafia.
If someone claims Hitler, he's probably scum.

Unless the mod liked Hitler, then another big name could be scum.
Or maybe he figured he would throw in a curve ball,
Also I would make Hitler a cultist for the lulz

[Xite91]

What's that last sentence have to do with anything?
Also, it varies from game to game, just sayin.

[Xite91]

What's that last sentence have to do with anything?
Also, it varies from game to game, just sayin.

My scum game is horrible of late.

So, considering that and the way you've been posting, that's just another reason for me to believe you're scum

[Xite91]

1. lynch Sando d2, I already explained why, a lot of times

Wow, do you read? Or are you kind of doing what you said you would and only half ignoring me?
The above quote is one of the reasons I called you scum, hey in your own words, you are your predecessors role, no?
And since Sando flipped town, posts like this one tasky put up makes you look like scum

[Xite91]

If you look harder instead of taking quotes out of context, he did make a case against Sando spanning several posts <_<

No, I did see that, but the whole thing looked like scum desperation, ironically

[Xite91]

Again, it wasn't just that he was on said wagon.

[Xite91]

Taz, are you on any new medication?

[Xite91]

Makes a little more sense, but he seems a little.... odd even for Ythan.

[Xite91]

All post #s are ISO numbers.

Xite

:
1: Reasoning on mass pop claim is very weak, and worse that he couples it with an accusation of role-fishing. Newbish; whether it is scummy depends on how this carries forward.
2: Reiterates the weak reasoning about scum convincing town that they (the scum) are town in QTs
3: Says he is eager to join Tasky's wagon (despite not joining it earlier:

Tasky/Xite scumteam evidence

)
4: Joins the wagon. Adds at the end "I'll help push him". Newb bussing tactic of declaring your eagerness:

Tasky/Xite scumteam evidence

5: On being asked to claim, he does - despite his strong opposition earlier. +1
7: Floats the idea of quicklynches, but in ISO8 says it was a joke...
14: Really bad attack on Friend, who rightly said that a mass pop claim wouldn't help scumhunting but would help neighbourising, in saying: "So you just want to because it could help neighborizing? but not scum hunting... hmm". Not only is the logic to this weak, but Xite presents it like something really intriguing (ie "Hmm"). +1
20: Rehashes the same weak argument, but in even strnoger language with: "And the reason it was scummy that you would push a claim was that you even said yourself that it wouldn't be beneficial to scum-hunting". +1
26: Really simplistic attack on Friend for allegedly simply dismissing what Xite said, but Friend's posts are much clearer and it isn't mere dismissal. +2

Nothing useful from Shify and CSL

50: Really bad attack on Parama, purely on the basis that Sando flipped town, which also serves to make Parama-scum seem dangerous. +2

Score: 59

VV

:

1,2) It seemed like a good opinion to me, this is more based on opinion.
3) That was based on someone's question to me about him self-voting. I hate self-voters.
4) Wrong, I was helping push him because he was being scummy and I thought he was at L-2, which he wasn't, so I was helping get him there, because pressure can be a good thing to get a scumtell.
5) People were already claiming, I wasn't going to stop it, therefore I had to claim otherwise it would have been discussed, clogged the thread, and I would have either claimed or been lynched for not doing so, I figured it would be better for everyone if I just sucked it up and claimed, besides how is claiming scummy? How is not wanting a mass claim scummy?
7)

Ooh, ooh pick me!

Looks like we're going to lynch Tasky anyways

By the way, would quick lynches be good in this game? Considering the nifty neighborizing idea?

hehe three way quicktopic

No, quicklynches would be bad.

Xite, why does it look like we're going to lynch Tasky? We're only 4 pages in.

ok, just wondering

that was a joke

Nice misrep though.
But I guess I'll excuse it since you probably did check to see what I was responding to.
Oh wait, no I won't because a lot of this looks familiar

By the way, would quick lynches be good in this game? Considering the nifty neighborizing idea?

+2. Noob scum throwing out a fishing line to see if there is support for an utterly insane idea.

ok, just wondering

that was a joke

How was that a joke? It could have been a joke if you'd said: "Wow, neighbouring sounds awesome; let's quicklynch to get to it", but you didn't. You asked a question to everybody, and then claimed it as a joke when the idea was swiftly kicked.

I am too,

but I figured this might be a special circumstance

+2 Great. Thankyou for admitting you just lied.

Unvote, Vote: Xite

Uhm, can I just say something real quick?
Youre a dumb

I was saying the we're alsmost surely going to lynch tasky today was a joke
I was saying that it might be better if we each kind of interrogated each one people on our own one at a time, not that it was for sure it'd be good, but a possibility

It was an idea to end day 1 early so that scumhunting might be easier. I wasn't even saying every day, I was saying day 1

I NEVER claimed that the quicklynch thing was a joke
I don't joke about those things

20, 26) All posts numbers are ISOs
Me 14 making a pretty decent case
Friend 27 disputing some parts, the rest "yup, i don't see it
Me 16 adding more reasoning to my case
Friend 28 same as 27
If you read through my and friend's iso together, you'll see that this goes on until I had to replace out
speaking of which

LOL.
Why do people leave and come back?

Gave reason for leaving, offered to come back when it was resolved, turned out I was needed again because CSL + CSL hydra's are just ridiculously inactive
Last) Not purely because of that, mostly. There's a difference. I gave a bit more of a case on that, go ahead and actually read it.

[Xite91]

Lulz, so guys, where'd the game go?

[Xite91]

Parama/Tasky is quite aggressive, i dont like his tone, but since he wasnt lynched on D1, i would think he's probably town

How exactly does this reasoning work?

[Xite91]

Tasky was hovering around l-1/-2 if i'm correct. I'm thinking that scum would have found a way to hammer him, but it didn't happen.

Huh? Please explain this thought process to the fullest. I'm not getting it at all.

Ok. Xite seemed scummy to me in the beginning, but I'm leaning townish on xite now. Just one question- why are you still going after Tasky? Is there anybody else that seems espically scummy to you now?

Because I believe he's scum, I gave my full reasoning on him and parama, go ahead and give it a look.
Why are you buddying up to him so bad?

[Xite91]

@Nicol - because of the way you're defending him without any "real" reasons, and how you tried to get me to let go of my suspicion of him(/them?)
@Taz - kinda wanna punch you. Just sayin

[Xite91]

Score: 67

Number one suspect status is confirmed

That's great Vollkan! So why don't you place a vote?

You should do one of those for yourself

[Xite91]

Score: 67

Number one suspect status is confirmed

That's great Vollkan! So why don't you place a vote?

You should do one of those for yourself

NicolBolas just said that Vezok is at L-1. I don't think it's quite hammer time.

Oh... I must have either missed or forgotten that.
Well I guess we'll see.

[Xite91]

Ugh I was hoping to see more from Vezo before the hammer, but I guess we'll see.

The scoring system is broken.

Arbitrary, yes.
Broken, no.

Each post that gives points is scummy. He gives a simple line to say why it is. If you go into ISO of your posts and compare them to when you get points you will find the posts that are scummy so you can:
- Clarify
- Defend
and
- Engage in Conversation

Completely unrelated to the game but Max, do you play under other accounts?

[Xite91]

Completely unrelated to the game but Max, do you play under other accounts?

Yes. I do. Feel free to message me theories you have about who (else) I am. I'm always intrigued if people have guesses.

On a side note, I believe that given the warning Vezok had vollkan's actions aren't too surprising.

True, but I need to go back and reread Vezo after he flips.

[Xite91]

Vote: Parama

Completely unrelated to my vote on you, but why no lynch?

[Xite91]

Your continued voting for me is based off craplogic and I will continue to ignore you.

Okay, ignore me, that doesn't mean I'm going to stop trying to get you lynched.

[Xite91]

Only if there's 3 scum. Which I can see, but I think it'd be better to try and catch scum if we've got a good chance of catching them, and I think we do.

[Xite91]

1 scum in each of those groups = good theory IMO. And hey, a vollkan/Andrius/VasudeVa scumteam still works in that scenario! What a coincidence.

I can actually see that, but I really don't want to start a theory conversation when good theory =/= what the actual situation is, but I'll tell you what, I agree that Vollkan is scum, so today if you help me get him lynched, I will work towards him first, but tomorrow (considering Vollkan has a pretty damn good chance of being scum) all bets are off.

[Xite91]

I'm looking at this- and could Parama explain me one thing?

This seems to be MYLO- so could you tell me pros and cons to nolynching today?

I think it would be better numberswise to nolynch, myself.

Xite- you seem to be eager to lynch somebody, even if it is MYLO. Why?

Numberwise, it's a great idea, because it lowers the percentage of hitting town, but it's terrible logicwise if everyone can agree someone is scum, because then they're most likely scum

[Xite91]

I propose a quick poll. Since this is MYLO- Should we nolynch? Why?

I believe that we should because I'm not as certain as the others about who is scum. Also, we could use our neighbors a bit more, one more night, before we risk lynching.

I do see that as a pro, but eh, I still feel trying to get scum now is a good idea, however because of the math and the fact that even if we hit scum we will remain in MyLo, I will not oppose a no lynch, but I won't vote for it.

[Xite91]

Hey look, my top 2 scumspects think my theory is wrong.

You don't have to agree with me, but it's certainly not something you should be attacking me for

Looks like Distancing

Vote: Parama

...
No, there is absolutely nothing related to distancing in my post. Explain how this is distancing, because there is nothing even remotely similar to it in my post. And nice job jumping on the only player to have a vote during MyLo by using terrible logic. I'd tell you to unvote because scum will quickhammer, but hey look there's already scum on the wagon right here, so no worries about that.
So Tazaro/Andrius/Vollkan then. Mmmmmk.

Actually, Taz's vote isn't scummy, because he claimed he'd do it last night. But in order to keep from a quick hammer, I will

Unvote

So, how will we do this little votecount?

[Xite91]

It's mylo? Hmm... I'm voting Parama based on what Xite said in the quicktopic. Tell them, Xite.

Taz, I said if I'm NK'd then go for him for sure.
I have a QT with both parama and Taz, and I was relaying some of the things said.
Mostly, it was gut based on his wording. It seemed like he was trying to see if I could tell he was scum/who his buddies were, but I also figured that if that were the case, I would be NK'd because of it, but then there's WIFOM on the fact that I stated I had more than one QT (Doh!) and maybe he figured I would tell the other person about what was going on, hey, this game IS about gossip, right?
But, there are still a few unanswered questions by Parama,
Speaking of which, parama, I'm still waiting on that case on Vollkan and how does Andrius' non-lynch make him even more likely to be scum?

[Xite91]

Okay, how about we all make a list of what we would like to do, as in the 3 top places we would like to place our vote, including no-lynch, so that way we can see where everyone stands.

[Xite91]

Vollkan
No lynch
Parama

[Xite91]

Guys, we have 3 votes on no lynch, lets wait and talk a bit more before we end the day.
Especially considering 2 things
1) We have a pretty general consensus on at least 1 player that he is scum (AKA we COULD vote him because hes more than likely scum)
2) We haven't gotten everyone's responses.

[Xite91]

@Nicol, yes, that would be vollkan

[Xite91]

@Volkan: Basically from #1063-#1074. I think it's slightly important since Taz pushed Parama to L-3 and you didn't post in that time frame. In the event that you are scum and Taz and Xite are Town, that would have been a splendid time to hammer and get the win.

I dont get it. How would vollkan be able to hammer with three votes needed to hammer?

I think he was trying to say that scum wouldn't try to get a hammer on someone until they're sure they can get all 3 at once, as in, if Vollkan was the other scum, they wouldn't take the chance.
Of course, if could always be something to the effect of me and/or taz could be scum, but I know my own role, and I don't think taz is scum, so that leaves a good amount of suspicion on Vollkan for me with that point of view.

[Xite91]

First, I want to say that self-meta is worthless, and it causes just a lot of noise that is unnecessary. Also, I try to play some ways some games and some others, regardless of alignment, just to confuse people with my meta. Yes, you could have multiple games that showed this as town, but you could ALSO have multiple games that show this as scum. I try to avoid meta in general unless people are very specific to how they play.
Honestly, to get this started, I'm willing to

Vote: Vollkan

I honestly feel it is a better choice than no-lynch because he seems way too much like scum for people to start second-guessing. Which WILL happen tonight, I'm sure.

[Xite91]

I get it now.

Xite, you profess heavy suspicion of vollkan without exactly mentioning why. How come?

I personally think Tazaro's postiton shifts is worse than what I see from vollkan.

It has a lot to do with his reads, and how he comes to them. I remember reading them and going *facepalm* more than a couple times, for some things because it's already been discussed (in one case, by HIM no less), and for some things because it just looks like he's trying to add suspicion where it's not due. Also, why would he post on every player instead of just the scummiest players?

[Xite91]

@Vollkan, I'll quote which ones and where tomorrow (hold me to this as I might forget) because I'm about to go to bed
I find most meta worthless, and self-meta to be the worst of it all. I don't find any point in using old games to explain actions in new ones.
I SAID why I didn't want a no-lynch. Because you are scum and if people wait another night to lynch you, you have more of a chance of swaying them, first, and second, they will second guess and WIFOM the hell outta themselves until they think you're town (I've seen it happen)
Fair enough with the null-tell argument, but that's not so much my reasoning for voting you.
And as for that last part, it's objectionable because you're throwing what you can out there and seeing what sticks? Not always in all cases, but that more was a question to see your reasoning for it.

[Xite91]

And I'll ask you the same line of questioning I asked Xite: "Explain to me why you think a no lynch would be less beneficial than my lynch. No matter how strongly you suspected [Tazaro], I can't see any reason why you wouldn't want to no lynch. Only scum benefit from us lynching today."

Vote: No Lynch

That's NL-1 people

Ok, I think I understand this, kind of. So, if I'm positive someone is scum, and I can get people to vote that person then and catch scum, it's better than waiting and people second-guessing their reads. I'm pretty sure I already said that though.

Interesting. There's no way scum-vollk(or scum anyone for that matter) would ever want to pressure a scummy LyLo fodder mislynch like Taz to replace out. vollkan moves up from suspiciously-null(because of how he defends himself) to slightlyTown then.

Unless they're both scum, and he's having him replace out so that scum don't lose this game due to a bad scum player.

[Xite91]

Hey guys, I'm sorry about this, but I started work today, and go again early tomorrow, and probably sleeping as soon as I get back, so I'll probably be

V/La until at least 9pm Az time

(we have our own time zone ).
Vollkan, I'll respond to everything you want tomorrow, ok? Including giving you of my points on your PbP's.

[Xite91]

Why I feel Vollkan is scum, a summary

First off, I really don't like his lack of voting

;
He has made ____ votes in the game
First was on Tasky, his ISO 4, after there's a pretty big wagon on him already, with 3 reasons, "obvious buddying is obvious," "early self game righteousness," and pretty much an OMGUS pressure vote
Then in 5, he turns around and votes me based on quotes from someone else (that he puts in my name)
Then, when I prove him wrong, he turns back around and revotes Tasky
His next vote isn't until his ISO 14, and guess what? It's another wagon, this time the sando wagon. Right after Andrius starts getting a few votes, he starts pushing the sando lynch.
His next vote is ISO 36, after quite a bit of questioning of his votee (Vezok). Perhaps to see if others would go with him? Oh, and look at the 5 other votes on him/her before he even votes.
ISO 52 is his no-lynch vote, again he waited to see if he had support.
Wow, not one of his votes WASNT jumping on a wagon...

mixed with him usually having a lack of attacking anyone

, Instead he has huge posts of why everyone else is wrong or right, but very little saying anything about who is scum.

Okay, now his recent PbPs
I already responded to mine, IIRC, so I will not be responding to it again

VasudeVa

2: No real reasoning or analysis here, despite conclusions
4: Weak argument against Sando based on aggression (not a scumtell) +1
5: Position here doesn't make sense at all. He leaves Tasky wagon to join another, but is clear that he still thinks Tasky is a good lynch. BUT, at the same time, says that the Tasky wagon "reeks" of scum +2
7: Every one of his attacks on Prana here simply stretches what Prana said to make the worst possible interpretation of it. +1 (only reason it isn't +2 is that since there was no wagon on PD, there isn't clear opportunism)
25: jumps onto RC, says he has a pretty good chance of flipping scum - despite earlier having said he found RC hard to read. +1
26: Then swaps to Taz, without any explanation as to why. +1

Score: 57

2) I see reasoning AND analysis, point out where you don't plox?
4) I'm not really seeing what you're seeing. What he said IS scummy as hell, but more because he thinks Tasky is town and Sando is scum and votes Tasky, from my interpretation. But then you say it's not a scumtell... but add points?

5)

I'm feeling temporarily tired of the Tasky case(Although he is a fine deadline lynch.) and I want to see where a Friend wagon would take us. Plus the Tasky wagon reeks of scum, possibly 2 of them in here(Right now, I'm thinking its Sando and Friend.). And I do not see anyone(bar me, as of this post) defending him.

^ This is exactly what he said, way to misrep. Unless you're reading into a different part of that post that was about tasky and sando, if so, I'd love for you to point it out.
7) Or that's the way he sees it?
25) Or he was able to read him at that point?
26) Oh you mean this no explanation?

Actually, I changed my mind.

Vote: Tazaro

. Votehopping between the two largest wagons is like woah.

Max

In the interests of time, I'll simply say that Max gets a

50

. I haven't seen any scumtells from him. (as in, I am not going to do a complete reread on somebody who I already have a solid read on)

Tazaro

1: Vote for Andrius makes no sense "trying to manipulate from the beginning" - that's a conclusion not an argument. +1
10: Expresses willingness to swap to Sando, on the basis that he doubts RF and RF is pushing Andrius. This doesn't make sense, since at the very least it would imply that his suspicion of RF is very serious, and yet he shows no willingness either to boost support for an Andrius lynch or push attentino onto RF as an alternative. +1
60: Noting here that he has many extremely short posts, making him very active but also very hard to get a read on. There is no sense of his thought process.
Taz gets a

52

overall, but I think that number may be soft, in that his posting style is one that I have personal difficulties with. It would I think be more accurate if he had a mid-50s ranking, at least an indication of how I feel about him.

NicolBolas

2: Reasoning is bad, but looks more null-newb than scummy.
...which is the impression I keep getting.

50

Huh... no real points against the two people without any real suspicion on them... afraid of getting attacked for making bad cases people will notice?

As for Taz
1) I actually agree
10) He looked to me to just be explaining something to someone, but eh, his playstyle is hard to read for me.

Andrius:

15: His reasons for not joining a wagon that would put me at L-2 is interesting. He begins in the highly qualified fashion of "At this point I won't vote him...", as opposed to doing the sensible thing and just dismissing a L-2 random wagon as dumb. But then in the second sentence we have "If I vote he will be at L-2, and forcing a claim on page three,

with 4 people missing is stupid.

" This time, his reason for not voting is qualified because people aren't here. It's striking the "safe" position for scum - not joining my wagon, expressing mild disapproval, but not fundamentally trying to attack it. +2
46: I'll just quote my earlier attack (and point-giving) on this: "You've given three inconsistent positions in one post. You say the wagon isn't going anywhere, implying that's a bad thing. You then say Tasky is seeming town to you (so surely that makes redundant the fact that the wagon isn't going there), but then you'd be willing to swap again at deadline (for somebody you are leaning town on??). Heavily suggests hedging of one's bets. +3"
51: His answer to my attack above is entirely unsatisfactory, basically only saying that meta-wise he is a "cautious town player", which doesn't address me at all. +1
...and a lot of pseudo-spam.

Score: 56

(the same issue as Taz doesn't arise because Andrius has had some content posts buried in a lot of crap posts, as opposed to being unreadable as a whole)

15) Uh... huh. Or he was giving his reasoning for why he wasn't voting?
46) I do that as town. Sometimes it's better to get a lynch you don't agree on than not to get a lynch at all.
51) Fair enough
I saw some actual points in his posts.

Vezok

- only up to post 3, and RC looks positively sane in comparison.
7: Calling Tasky the godfather is the most ridiculous thing so far
- at this point, seeing as content-wise his posts are just useless, I'm going to focus on vote opportunism (as I kind of did above anyway)
9: parama vote soon after Taz did likewise. +1
13: swap to Andrius soon after he hit three votes, seemingly backtracking entirely from his earlier very (I would say ridiculously) strong suspicion of Parama. +3
15: As far as scumtells go, this is the most serious yet. I've addressed this in my own posts already, but to repeat (because I think this is important), Vezok said: "I stil support a Parama wagon or Ray Frost wagon. Or even Andrius." This is just after he swapped his vote to Andrius. It's contradictory and scummy in and of itself, but also evidence of a scumteam for the future. +4
17: now andrius is the scum again, language is again bombast. +1
21: Now jumps onto me soon after Taz votes me. His only reason is "I agree with this" +2
23: people leave my wagon, and now he jumps away to Andrius. This guy really is textbook newbscum +3

Score: 67

Number one suspect status is confirmed

Ignoring the RC one as all it did was make me laugh

13) Why ridiculously strong?
15) What scumteam?


Anything I didn't address I either didn't disagree with or said "fair enough" to or both.

[Xite91]

1) There was a wagon on him for a good reason. Rather than demonising my vote for mere fact that I wagoned, you should actually look at my reasons.

2) Third, explain what is wrong with my accusation of early-game self-righteousness.

3) Fourth, what do you mean by "pretty much an OMGUS pressure vote"? My vote very obviously wasn't OMGUS because I had reasons.

4) What quotes from somebody else?

5) I love the way you smear this in the worst way possible. I voted you based on a reaonable misinterprtatino of your post. You clarified. And so I returned to my previous suspect.

You present it, though, like some great inconsistency.

His next vote is ISO 36, after quite a bit of questioning of his votee (Vezok). Perhaps to see if others would go with him? Oh, and look at the 5 other votes on him/her before he even votes.

6) Golly gosh! I voted after "quite a bit of questioning"! How scummy?

7) In a number of his attacks thus far, he indicts my actions on the basis of an assumption that my actions are scum-motivated. In other words, he is committing the logical fallacy of begging the question - because his argument for why I am scum assumes that I am scum in the first place.

8) For starters, I think that it's fair to say that I've been far more transparent than many other people in this game. I think I am the only player to date who has posted a proper summary on every player in the game.

9) I also think that here you are just attacking my playstyle. I scumhunt by analysing reasoning. Necessarily, that involves huge posts on whether things are right or wrong. I also am one of the most skeptical people on site about scumtells and towntells (as in, I see the vast majortiy of things as nulltells).

10) His page 1 comments are all playstyle-related and not scumhunting related
...
No reasoning and analysis.

11) I gave him a point for voting Sando based on "aggression" because aggression is a typical boilerplate scumtell that isn't actually a scumtell

I'm feeling temporarily tired of the Tasky case(Although he is a fine deadline lynch.) and I want to see where a Friend wagon would take us. Plus the Tasky wagon reeks of scum, possibly 2 of them in here(Right now, I'm thinking its Sando and Friend.). And I do not see anyone(bar me, as of this post) defending him.

12) Are you paying any attention at all? He is very clear that he wants to leave Tasky but still thinks Tasky is a "fine deadline lynch". But he also says that the Tasky wagon "reeks of scum". In the very thing you quoted..

13) It's the same thing I attacked you for just above. You CANNOT accuse somebody of being scum based on an interpretation of their behaviour that assumes that they are scum.

14) It's like saying: "I think Mr Smith murdered Mr Jones, because if you assume Mr Smith wanted to kill Mr Jones, then it makes sense that he would kill Mr Jones"

15) Nothing he said indicatd he was able to read RC now.

16) I find it very odd that you are willing to make the worst possible interpretions of

my

actions, but you are willing to extend such generosity to Vas

17) "votehopping is like woah" is not an explanation.

18) Again, you are doing the same conspiratorial bullshit. It's clear that people didn't suspect them and it would be entirely reasonable that I would be in agreement with that consensus.

But no! The reason I am not suspicious of them has to be because I am "afraid of being attacked". Fail.

19) First,

You are now very clearly being unfair

This is the second time that you've been willing to give somebody else a very generous benefit fo the doubt at the same time as you persistently make the worst possible interpretations of my actions.

20) And of course he was giving his reasoning - my problem was that the reasoning was noncommital and his only qualification was based on the number of people, rather than substantive comment on the wagon

21) Good for you. But objectively it is inconsistent and thus can be validly treated as a scumtell

22)

13) Why ridiculously strong?

This:

These two posts are what ticked my scum-o-meter.
This is Parama scum at is finnest. Please lynch this guy.
unvote
Vote Parama

15) What scumteam?

23) For distnacing purposes, scum will usually have one of their buddies in their top three suspects. Now, vezok had said:

15: As far as scumtells go, this is the most serious yet. I've addressed this in my own posts already, but to repeat (because I think this is important), Vezok said: "I stil support a Parama wagon or Ray Frost wagon. Or even Andrius." This is just after he swapped his vote to Andrius. It's contradictory and scummy in and of itself, but also evidence of a scumteam for the future. +4

24) It makes no sense that, at the same time as he is voting Andrius, he would be expressing support for Parama and Rayfrost "Or even Andrius" (which bizarrely means that his "or even" candidate is the very one he is voting). The inconsistency between his declared suspicions and who is voting suggests a scumlink

[/quote]
1) But IIRC you hadn't even said anything about him before that post, and as you being "the inquisitor," wouldn't you normally grill him for information? Also, I could say that almost any wagon on someone was "for good reasons." Also, I totally skipped over your other reason, so, ok, your main reason was for hypocrisy of his IIoA, which he could have not realized was IIoA. Ok.

That tasky/friend thing; sorry, my mistake

2) It's a null tell.

3) Your reasons were for pressure based on his attack on you were they not? AKA an OMGUS pressure vote.

4) In that post, I don't think you had asked me about the misunderstanding about my joke, but I'm too lazy to check, so correct me if I'm wrong.
But I meant you quoted friend, and labeled the quotes in my name. Then gave me +4 altogether for it, but when I corrected you, you took the +4 off of me, but did nothing to correct it toward friend, ironically the person I was voting for when you voted me. Sorry I didn't explain that fully.

And, yeah, you're right, I forgot I hadn't had more than a vote or two (friend's OMGUS and someone else IIRC) on me, but suspicion? Plenty.

5) I love the way you try to discredit me by saying I'm smearing things in the worst way possible. I'm not the first person you did this with am I?
Not responding to the sando one because it's going to be the same argument again and again. I am not just twisting what you're saying into something scummy, perhaps I am just looking at it like it is and you ARE scummy.

6) As in, you waited to see if you had support and didn't vote until you saw that there was enough support for it.

7) Oh boy! You're discrediting what I'm saying again! Once again, you're saying that I'm making a case going into it thinking you are scum, and therefore putting a scummy twist on everything you say, but maybe you are just scummy.

8) Which I honestly feel is just a way to say, "c gaiz, i iz scumhuntin!"

9) Oh, you mean attacking you based on how you're playing? There's another way to attack someone?

10) If you ACTUALLY think you would be able to see the analysis. Granted, I could see this being a stretch, it just depends on the person

11) K misinterpretation on my part.

12) "A fine deadline lynch" means nothing in the sense of "I think he's scum." If a lynch is solely because of deadline, it's usually meant for information.

13) Uhm.... what?

14) Yeah, way to misrep that one.

15) The vote didn't?

16) Do you WANT the worst possible interpretations? Because I can make it look like you killed your whole family, and two sets of neighbors and framed it on the dog based on what you say (I have done that one before to a friend). The case I made against you is me being fair to you and taking things pretty much at face value. If you want me to do more, though, go ahead and tell me.

17) Maybe to you, but I live with a few stoners and drinkers, so I understood him exactly. (No offense VV)

18) But really? No scummy points against him at all? That's just odd because even the towniest of players do at least one scummy thing in a game.

19) Giving the benefit of the doubt to someone =/= something being pretty obvious to me.
The second was what happened.

20) This, however, is fair enough

21) What was that you were saying about not trusting typical scumtells? That was you right?

22) Okay, so I didn't interpret what you said the way I think you meant it. But I got it now.

23) Refer to 21
Also, this one is only right half the time anyways. Sometimes I have all my scumbuddies in my list of suspects, sometimes none, and sometimes one, two, or so on. I'm pretty sure this goes for anyone

24) I do agree with this part though.

[Xite91]

1) This is why self meta is worthless.
2) I have been giving points as to why you're scummy this whole time. I shouldn't have to say That is scummy at the end of every sentence I write.
3) A difference in views I guess
4) Oh, sorry you're talking about your ISO 5 I'm talking about your ISO 8.
5) Way to not respond to the actual point I was making about you trying to discredit me.

I am saying that most of the points I'm bringing against you are things scum would do. I am not saying they're things a certain person scum would do, because I don't really care enough to meta.

6 and 7) Ironically, you do that whole discrediting my posts thing again, but don't address the actual points.
8) First off, you weren't really scum-hunting, you were just pointing things out about everyone. That just clogs the thread and can confuse people that are playing.
9) Yeah, based on how you're playing. Remember I don't do meta, and even if I did, I'd STILL attack you for the way you've been playing
10) Sure... we'll go with that.
11) What was that about skewing things in a scummy light?
13-14) I ignored that whole sentence the first time, and only won't the second time because I'm tired of you being wrong. You looked like scum, I went back to tell people how, those were the points I got. That's how you play this game. Any questions?
15) See 11
16) I DID explain it? What more do you want?
18) Oh, so we should just random lynch every day? Because everything scum has done, town has done too. Thing is, it's way more likely for scum to do certain things than town.
19) Not even responding to this because I'm slightly pissed off at RL situations, and I REALLY want to be nice. Ask me later.

[Xite91]

@Vollkan - I'm tired of arguing with you, especially because you're one of those people that keeps saying the same things over and over again without even stopping to think that just maybe you could be wrong.

@VV - I truly think Vollkan is scum.
Also, I think I said this before, Vollkan pressuring Taz out of the game could be him not wanting Taz to get lynched because he is scum as well (AKA protecting the slot).
I agree with you on parama, though

[Xite91]

First, I'm not seeing the way you're getting your vollkan/taz reads at all.
Second, I just thought of something, maybe the mass pop claim was pushed by scum so that the could kill based on popularity (in this case high on the list to low, but I don't see how that makes sense, when lower are more likely to have more qts.) Just something to ponder maybe.

[Xite91]

What I want to hear from both of you is just this: What you think of each other? Do you think one of you is scum or is this a Town v. Town argument?

My read of Xite (and this is a read from the process of responding, not clinically going back over) from that argument is tunnelling newb, possibly slightly town but mostly null. He's being inconsistent in the way he treats me versus others (if you didn't read the debate, basically there a number of points where he attacks me by assuming the worst possible motivations for my actions but also attacks me for not being generous enough in my interpretations of other people's actions), but, importantly, he didn't resort to misrepresentation or strawmanning and he did seem genuinely confused about the whole "definition of a scumtell" (and his confusion on that point is a factor in me not taking his inconsistency.

First, not a newb
Second, Not tunneling (reread, you will see. I'm just -ohmaigodz- pushing a case against scum)
Third, Like I said, I was not assuming the worst possible things, nor skewing anything, but that, sir, was what you were doing. And if you do it to others, then (if I was) what right do you have to ask people not to do it to you?
Fourth, No confusion, just not liking how you reserve the right to decide what's a scumtell and what isn't
Did I miss anything?

Oh yeah,
@Mod: Aren't I voting Vollkan?

~corrected

[Xite91]

@Vollkan
1) No, just been playing for a long time, but IRL mostly. I did play a few online games though, back in high school.
2) Then that's not tunneling, which was a word I saw specifically IIRC (which was why I responded to it). Also, I gave you the benefit of the doubt when this game began, by saying, "oh, it's probably just his playstyle" but as the game progressed, I can be almost positive that you deserve no benefit of the doubt.
3) So.... it's different for you than it is for everybody else?
4) Something scum are more likely to do than town.

[Xite91]

@Andrius - I'd have to check, but weren't you the one that put "one of the V's" as your third choice for a lynch? What changed?

[Xite91]

vollkan is still scummy, and a 'V'. Though he's not QT'd with me... Parama and Twomz and Tazaro ARE though.

Yes, but it was "one of the V's" What changed your mind about Vas?

[Xite91]

Ah well. What about pursuing a lynch? Parama is the only one who has really commented on that and everyone else either ignored it, hasnt read it, or is planning to lurk till NL.

I figured it was obvious with me. I'd much prefer to lynch obvscum, and I've decided I won't vote no-lynch. Someone else can do that if it's going to happen. Also, considering how hard vollkan is pushing it and I think he's scum, I'm nervous he has a little trick he's not telling us (not that I'm sure what that is, but hey, I'm paranoid )

[Xite91]

Xite, I'm pretty sure vollkan isn't scum. His play in this game doesn't have a scummy intent at all. D1, he goes for Tasky but switches to Sando. The two people who were attracting the most attention. Sando is lynched. D2, he goes for vezo, who is definitely attracting more attention than all the other players. D3, he goes for no lynch and asks the person who he views as a noob to replace out. That's arguably the most pro town thing I've seen from his play. I'd oppose his lynch, especially at MyLo/Lylo, which we're at. Maybe after a scum flip, I'd be willing to reconsider but, right now, vollkan isn't a guy you want to put your money on for flipping scum. If vollkan is scum in this game, then just kill me post-game because I'm pretty positive the man can't be read if he is.

And how is that not scummy to you?

[Xite91]

Why would you break a trend of going for the person attracting the most attention when you had "good reasons" to go for them if you're scum? As scum, you would only want him replaced to get uber town points but it probably wont work because we're near end-game anyways. As town, you'd think Taz is newb but might not have a good read on him so you ask him to replace out. I'm pretty sure vollkan made it clear he works his reads out based on reasons for voting and Taz failed to provide that. I don't see vollkscum at all.

Well, here's a WIFOM-y idea. Taz is his scumbuddy, and he was working his way to getting lynched, so vollkan told him to replace out (to protect the slot)

[Xite91]

Well, I know that isn't true. I can't disprove your WIFOM-y idea, but I can tell you that vollkan is not a good lynch right now or tomorrow.

Then who do you think is?

[Xite91]

Like I said, I want to go for a NL and see what my neighbors have to say and what the NK will bring because I'm not 100% on any of my reads. If I had to pick someone, Nico.

What about the next two? (I asked everyone this)
And if you want a No Lynch, why not hammer?

[Xite91]

Ironically, I saw this coming. But, I did get a good amount of information from my qt's. That being said, I would like to ask everyone who all of their qt's are and who they targeted last night for a qt.
Please don't give me any why's or what's been happening in them yet, I simply want a list. Don't ask me why as it will ruin the reason for asking this.

[Xite91]

Oh, and my qts for last night were
Parama
VV
Hindu
and Andy.

I was targeted by Twomz last night

[Xite91]

oh, and who you targeted. I didn't target anyone, for obvious reasons

[Xite91]

I didn't either, because I've targeted everyone I can.

no, I knew your reasons, but I just wanted to clarify for everyone else

[Xite91]

That being said, I would like to ask everyone who all of their qt's are and who they targeted last night for a qt.

:embarrassed:

I've stuffed up, and I won't be surprised if this gets me lynched.

I've had it in my head for the entire game that the neighbourising was one-shot. Reading your post above literally had me going "WTF". I can confirm that my role PM does indicate I can target somebody each passing period; I just forgot what it said

Lulz, okay, but what qts do you have?

[Xite91]

before we no lynch I still need an answer from nicol, then I'll have a completed list.
Once I get the completed list, I will show it to all of you along with a sort of analysis-type thing.
Andy, one more no-lynch will be fine and we won't lose from it.

[Xite91]

K so sando's not responding....
do you guys want me to post my data now or wait till tomorrow (it will work better with more targets, and with an answer from sando, but it still works just as well right now)

[Xite91]

Vote Count

No Lynch (4) - Hinduragi, Parama, Twomz, vollkan

Not Voting (4) - VasudeVa, NicolBolas, Andrius, Xite91

This is great. Just great.
All my scumreads are voting No Lynch, all my town reads aren't.

Iroically, there's one scumread of mine in each and then another not even on the list...

[Xite91]

Sando? Wtf?

Vote Count

No Lynch (4) - Hinduragi, Parama, Twomz, vollkan

Not Voting (4) - VasudeVa, NicolBolas, Andrius, Xite91

This is great. Just great.
All my scumreads are voting No Lynch, all my town reads aren't.

Iroically, there's one scumread of mine in each and then another not even on the list...

lol *facepalm*
sorry I always mix them up, sando should be nicol. and yeah, that means that theres one on no lynch and 2 on not voting

[Xite91]

k so nicol is V/La till monday night... who wants to wait and who wants to just keep moving on?

[Xite91]

Let's wait. Can't really hurt.

k works for me

[Xite91]

While we're waiting I want to put together a second list.
I want who you targeted each night (don't need reasons, just who you targeted)

[Xite91]

No one, I'm lowest in popularity, so it would be pointless for me.

[Xite91]

okay so I'm waiting on twomz and nicol...

[Xite91]

What are you waiting on me for?

I need a list of who you targeted each night

[Xite91]

so then parama night 1 and andy night 2 then? (sorry want my charts to be as accurate as possible)

[Xite91]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Asshole roommate unplugged my computer and now I have to redo my analysis. Hindy, we should no-lynch today, then go back to lynching scum tomorrow. I'm curious to see who will neighborize who tonight.

[Xite91]

@Vollkan - 3 is more for me to answer, because it was in my QT with him

[Xite91]

We're waiting for nicol, but it looks like he hasn't been on since the 9th...
I want to put up my information, but I don't know if I should wait for him or not...

[Xite91]

No, before that I need to put up my info, and before that I need everyone's ok, because we WERE waiting on nicol

[Xite91]

Analysis coming tomorrow.

Vote No Lynch

[Xite91]

More info = Better analysis.
I will say a few things though.
First, the chart on the left is who everyone claimed to have as qts (they all match up except of course nicol)
The chart on the right is who everyone claimed to target, I guessed on twomz because he didn't give me his answer of who he targeted first and second, so I figured they were first and second on his list of targets.
From the charts, I can see a few scum groups.
One of which would be Parama/Andy/Twomz
Another could be Twomz/Vas/Hindu
I'm not sure what to think of Vollkan or Nicol, but I'll wait until tomorrow to find out.
More info WILL help this analysis, I promise

[Xite91]

Also, the less I say about the results, the more likely I am to catch scum based on the info (If I give away said info, a lot more WIFOM than necessary or useful will happen)

[Xite91]

Also, the less I say about the results, the more likely I am to catch scum based on the info (If I give away said info, a lot more WIFOM than necessary or useful will happen)

Unless you're NK'd.
Then its useless.

True, but that's why I put it up today, if you think about it you can figure the same things out and why.
Also, I will be giving the information to my general town reads tonight in my QTs, so they will be able to relay it.
Anyways, would one of you be a dear an hammer? I'd really like to see what's next.

[Xite91]

One of which would be Parama/Andy/Twomz
Another could be Twomz/Vas/Hindu

Lynch Twomz?

I actually was thinking the same thing, which would make it very likely for Vas to be his partner because of the way he was bussing him in my qt.
(he wanted to lynch the lurkers, nicol and twomz, but was more apt to lynch twomz)

[Xite91]

This close to winning, I bus my partner?

Anyway, I'm willing to hammer but really what's the rush?

Yeah, because we lynch twomz today, then go after the other lurker tomorrow ta-da.
I've seen it done and work before.
No real rush, there's two reasons, the non-game related reason, and you're gonna laugh at me for this, is that I'm booooored. Almost all of my games are in the night phase, and this game is much more fun when we're all using our qts.
The game related reason is for the new information I'm going to get from it, and of course I'm gonna be gossiping about all of you and trying to find out your dirty little secrets

[Xite91]

This close to winning, I bus my partner?

Anyway, I'm willing to hammer but really what's the rush?

True. They are really close, so.

</3 if Vas is scum.

Hey, andy, are you scum?
Because I do have a general town read on hindu...

[Xite91]

Wait, since when was I lurking?

you were one of the fewest posters.

[Xite91]

@Twomz, never mind, it's hard to explain...

[Xite91]

Personally, I'm waiting for a NL hammer.

QFT

There's not much more that's going to happen today

[Xite91]

...you seriously think scum will NK the guy getting replaced? Dude, you're out of your mind. This is exactly why NL shouldn't be hammered.

Uhm, considering that we're all null on him and another player would just bring in another perspective and probably help us find scum? They totally could hammer the guy getting replaced. Why would it be likely for scum to not nk him?
Actually, a modkill of the slot would be good as long as it didn't result in us losing the rest of the day.

[Xite91]

...you seriously think scum will NK the guy getting replaced? Dude, you're out of your mind. This is exactly why NL shouldn't be hammered.

Uhm, considering that we're all null on him and another player would just bring in another perspective and probably help us find scum? They totally could hammer the guy getting replaced. Why would it be likely for scum to not nk him?
Actually, a modkill of the slot would be good as long as it didn't result in us losing the rest of the day.

It's a 50 page game. Chances are the slot will not be replaced into anytime soon. I want to wait for it.

As for modkilling it, would you rather want info off a NK or have a possible scum/possible town dead? Those are the only 2 viable options at this point. I would rather have info off the NK tbh.

First off, that hammer the guy was supposed to be nk, I must have switched them in my mind

I would much prefer info on the NK, because that would also give info on the neighborizer thing, plus I feel nicol is probscum and therefore I'm not so worried about him not being around, so I will go ahead and say the NK, but if he's going to have to modkill him for inactivity, I'd prefer it'd be during the day in case he IS town, because it would piss me off to lose because of that.

[Xite91]

Hi charlie!
Your best bet is to vote no-lynch and read up a bit, I'm sure your qt's will fill you in on what you missed

[Xite91]

First part, well we're going to have to do something, and honestly, I feel No-lynch is a good choice for today.

Also, what would that be?

[Xite91]

We wait for Charlie to post content, and respond to stuff.
Then we go from there.

I'll tell you tonight.

But what if he takes longer than deadline to catch up? Then we just let this game go stale and made people less inclined to try their best. I'd prefer Charlie read today, post his ideas on that, then read the thread during the night phase, but that's just me.

Also, why can't you just say it?

[Xite91]

Us hitting deadline = No Lynch. Not a big difference.

In case I'm wrong. XD

Well it does, but my point was more that letting it go that long makes the game get REALLY boring and stale and makes people want to play it less.

[Xite91]

Okay, I've read from page 50 till present plus any QTs I have... And I'm confused. Starting from the page 1 would be my next step, I'll make the effort tonight since I've noticed that the game is kind of 'stalled'.

So does this mean you'll hammer?

[Xite91]

Parama, stop trying to stifle conversation.
WE ARE NOT DONE WITH D4 YET, AND WE ARE WAITING FOR CHARLIE TO CATCH UP.
THAT.
IS.
FINAL.

Unless someone hammers for it. You really need to realize you're not the only player in the game.

[Xite91]

ALSO.

Why are people voting in MyLo? I'm going to be NLing until the scum get the balls to kill someone, even if it a takes a whole damn year. Discussion is fine but the discussion that's happened during today has been mostly useless crap. We sat around waiting for Nicol for a week, then he got replaced, and now we're sitting around and waiting for Charlie to make biased and opportunistic cases on me to try and push a ML on me tomorrow after he kills obvtown Xite tonight while hanging out with his buddies vollkan and Andrius.

THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO LYNCH IN MYLO WHEN WE'RE ALMOST 100% SURE THERE ARE NO POWER ROLES (P.S. - There aren't unless they've been doing a terrible job protecting, investigating, tracking, watching etc. because I don't believe it for a second that we don't have anyone confirmed town due to roles AND these roles that could confirm townies exist)

Sounds a lot like you're flailing Parama.
I'm curious, though, how am I ovbtown again? I think that's the first time I've seen me called that this game.

[Xite91]

Um, I've told you in our QT that you're my strongest town read. Twice, I think. <_<
How is wanting a NL a bad thing when the scum are too big of wimps to kill in 8p? Personally, I always kill even if it would take MyLo into LyLo. I don't see much of a difference.

Sorry, I lost all my tabs, so I stopped cross-referencing for a bit, but I just pulled them all back up, and... wait, where did you say that? I can't find it anywhere.

Wait, I said wanting a no lynch is a bad thing? Odd... I seem to recall trying to get someone to hammer...

[Xite91]

The post you called "flailing" was about wanting to NL <_<

Way to avoid the other part of that...
Anyways, yea it was, but it also had a LOT of AtE looking stuff in it. I dunno, it's mostly a gut thing, I guess.

[Xite91]

Read the QT again.
Specifically, #11. Where I said that you and maybe [REDACTED] are my only town reads.

Oh, lol sorry I must have skipped over that line.
But you never said why.

[Xite91]

Why would I waste my time explaining my town reads?
I've seen nothing in your posts or you behavior to make me think you're scum; you've done some stupid stuff but your effort seems genuine.

I don't know, because I asked? (At least I think I did)
Makes sense, I guess. But your other town read... I'm not so sure just yet

[Xite91]

If it's advocating an Andrius lynch (who you have a scum read on) why do you care, though?

Are you kidding me? Please tell me this is a joke. I'd vote you just for this if it wasn't probably MyLo

Pro-tip - townies vote their #1 suspicion, always. Especially when a mislynch equals a loss.

Really? Would you like me to link all the times this ISN'T true?

Also, how are you so positive that there are 3 scum. There COULD be two, unless you can state where Llama said otherwise.

And I just realised how many people actually attacked parama... it's just odd that so many people suspect him and he STILL hasn't been lynched... I don't know, though, I'd have to sleep on it (AKA No Lynch)

Scum are: Parama/Twomz, either vollkan or Hinduragi. Leaning Hinduragi over vollkan ATM, but its tough.

Odd... I would definitely lean more towards Vollkan...

Anyways, Parama, you really are flailing like a madman. Just thought I'd point that out.

[Xite91]

He gave reasons as to why not Vollkan in his other post. Someone made an apparently damn good case on him being town and is not sure he's scum any more.
Also, I've seen plenty of times where someone didn't vote their top suspect and were town, so that really doesn't work either.
What else did you have?

[Xite91]

Parama, to be honest, I'm tired of your AtE and that last long post of yours looks like "lynch me, I dare you"
I've seen that all too often from scum.

Unvote, Vote: Parama

I will be around to unvote if the wagon grows a little too fast.

[Xite91]

Unvote

Going to bed. Vote will return tomorrow probably

[Xite91]

Parama, to be honest, I'm tired of your AtE and that last long post of yours looks like "lynch me, I dare you"
I've seen that all too often from scum.

Unvote, Vote: Parama

I will be around to unvote if the wagon grows a little too fast.

And this is why I don't like playing with you.
YOU ARE COMPLETELY MISSING THE POINT.

DID YOU NOT EVEN READ MY POINTS AGAINST CHARLIE? NO, YOU DIDN'T. I CAN TELL YOU DIDN'T.

I read them but there was too much nothing there to consider. VV actually says it VERY well. Oh, and I'm back again, so

Vote:Parama

[Xite91]

I read them but there was too much nothing there to consider.

...
A blatant FoS: Scumbuddy Vote: Townie in which the scum ranked his scumbuddy above the townie in his list of suspicions and then tries to cop out of the vote with a lame excuse is NOTHING TO CONSIDER?

...

I can't even deal with this anymore.

Requesting Replacement

. Call me a quitter if you want to, I don't give a damn. Obviously nobody here understands basic logic, and making perfect sense doesn't work in Mini 1004 because sense is a lie.
GG scum, I hope you win this one. You deserve it.

VV actually says it VERY well.

Pssh. You probably didn't even read his responses. Your post doesn't make it look like you did.

You know, based on a flip of someone that acts exactly like you are right now I was willing to say you were probably town, until that replace out thing. I'm done dealing with you, and at this point I'd rather everyone just help me lynch you than him find a replacement.
I pointed out why that was wrong, and EVEN YOU JUST SAID that if you have 3 top suspects, you should be willing to lynch any of the three, did you not? So your point is invalid and you're flailing like a madman.

My Vote stays

[Xite91]

You're confusing things. You should be willing to lynch any of your top 3 suspicions, but in a MyLo/LyLo situation, why the hell wouldn't you vote for who you think is most likely scum? You're not allowed to screw up anymore.

But that's a contradiction in itself. Obviously you are more suspected by the players than Vollkan, and you're in his top 3 suspects list, so he's willing to vote you over him because you're the more likely lynch candidate out of his top 3.
Also, people that use mounds of AtE and freak out before they get lynched are usually the ones that make the game unfun. Keep in mind that this game IS about trial and error, and there will be mistakes made, but you're supposed to PREVENT those mistakes (if you're about to get lynched and ARE town) by using logic and good arguments instead of "I hate this game! Bye!" Usually, that will get you lynched.
Like I said, because of the way you're reacting and the way I've seen people that act the way you are, I am more apt to believe you're town, but the more you flail the more my mind goes "he has to be scum" even if people-studying says otherwise. I have to admit, part of me would welcome the game ending if it was a choice between that and listening to another whiny player. That being said, I feel it's time to end this day before it gets out of hand, and hey, one less player to muck up the stats for town winning is not so much a bad thing. I think it's about time this happens

Unvote, Vote: No Lynch

Now we're just waiting on the hammer... again.

[Xite91]

I'm willing to vote Parama, now or later.

Honestly, at this point, I'm willing to do whichever will end the day faster.
I'd like a little more analysis, but considering I honestly believe Parama is scum (aside from some site-meta), I don't mind going for a lynch on him at all.
And your quickhammer point is a good one

[Xite91]

fuuuuuuuck. Sorry llama about the QT thing, just saw this opened back up...
go town!