Mini #1004 - Popularity Mafia (Over)

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Count

Tasky (3) - Friend, PranaDevil, vollkan
Friend (2) - Andrius, Xite91
Andrius (1) - seraphim
vollkan (1) - Scott Brosius
seraphim (1) - Tasky

Not Voting (4) - Max, TheLonging, sando, NicoBolas

[Xite91]

My mind has changed over the course of the game. It happens. People made logical, convincing arguments as to why certain things were/weren't true (popularity-PR link, the "one person below you idea"). I agreed with them. Since when is that a scumtell?

It was just interesting to me that with minimal discussion from you or really not even that much on that topic you went from one end of the spectrum to the other.
I agree it's not the best case in the world, but it's page 6 and you're the scummiest tell to me in the game so far, so I'm gonna let it be known, and at least I'm telling you why instead of going , oh and friend is scum.
Also, just a little point here, friend seems to me like if he is town, he's the exact type of influential townie that I meant when I opposed the claim

[NicolBolas]

Post explosion!

I'm behind, so i need to read thru the whole thing, and see what is happening.

Be right back.

[NicolBolas]

I’m just reading thru the game and typing my thoughts when they come to me.

I believe that freedom to choose whoever you want to befriend is the way to go, because of what somebody brought up- Scum can just take advantage of the extra information to plan their nightkills accordingly. I think this is bad. But, you should claim who you befriended, why, and what your impressions during the night was. Everyone, you should be aware who you talk to could be scum, and act accordingly. If i’m correct, everyone has claimed their popularity, so I believe that is all we really need to talk about the neighborzing thing. Now, can we leave that subject at rest?

I dont like how tasky tried to start a wagon on Volkan with very little reasoning. Hmm.

@andrius, I dont know, it was just a question. (popularity being nonrandom)

Tasky selfvoted? That’s the holy grail of scumtells from what i know of Mafiascum.

@xite- I do not think its a good idea to have short days. It gives us less information to work with.

I think it would be a bad idea to claim who we befriended, until it is necessary, because if we claim, scum can use that information.

Also, I think that the day is more important than the night, because there are much more people to analyze information in posts. so I think we really need to reduce the discussion about the neighborizing issue. it is distracting me from reading people.



I do not like xite and tasky.

My dislike of xite is because he is confusing me.
@xite, I do not see where friend is buddying up to people. can you point this out to me?

I dont like tasky for how he selfvoted just because there wasnt any other wagon. He could have just voted on whoever he thought was scummy. I believe that just this deserves my vote. What else i dont like about him is: his very weak vote on Seraphrim. He is still holding that vote, and i do not see why. He is not even commenting on Sera anymore.
@Tasky- do you still find him scummy?

vote: Tasky

[Xite91]

I’m just reading thru the game and typing my thoughts when they come to me.

1)I believe that freedom to choose whoever you want to befriend is the way to go, because of what somebody brought up- Scum can just take advantage of the extra information to plan their nightkills accordingly.

2)@xite- I do not think its a good idea to have short days. It gives us less information to work with.

3)I think it would be a bad idea to claim who we befriended, until it is necessary, because if we claim, scum can use that information.

4)Also, I think that the day is more important than the night, because there are much more people to analyze information in posts. so I think we really need to reduce the discussion about the neighborizing issue. it is distracting me from reading people.


5)My dislike of xite is because he is confusing me.
@xite, I do not see where friend is buddying up to people. can you point this out to me?

1) how?
2) noted, it was just a suggestion
3) said that IIRC
4) Makes a little more sense, just saying though, that if done right, everyone can have a little interrogation cell of their own with X amount of people in it after so many days.
5) No problem

And Andrius, we can be friends!

I know this was in response to rvs but lookie here

Andrius

and others: What are the pros and cons of a mass-popularity level claim? I'm fairly new to this whole thing so if this is a dumb idea please tell me

Why add Andrius instead of just saying everyone?
then

I think most of us are in favor of this...so who wants to start?

Andrius

and then we can just popcorn from there, or go by the playerlist, or have everyone shout it out at once, doesn't really matter.

Again why him?

Next

Tasky, what do you hope to acheive with your wagon? There's nothing vollkan can defend himself from. I mean, my vote was on there cause of a Phoenix Wright-related avatar. Wagoning for the sake of wagoning isn't going to accomplish anything. Now, wagoning some scummy, like yourself, can.

Not exactly buddying up, but could lead to more of it

I agree with vollkan completely. That's what I had in mind when I suggested it. And I highly doubt that the level of popularity is tied to anything (PR-ness, alignment) so I don't think claiming it is rolefishing, like you said xite. Also, xite, why do you think scum would be able to fool a townie in the QT, when if they're that good at playing scum, they'll probably just be fooling them in the thread anyways?

I think it would be best that everyone at night talks to the one who is just one step under them in the popularity scala, so that everyone (save nr.1 and nr.12) has 2 neighbors and there is no one who doesn't have a neighbor...

I like this idea too. But yeah, we should wait 'til everyone's said their piece on the matter before we start claiming numbers.

In regards to the first part, this isn't the only time he whole-heartedly agrees with someone.

The second isn't a big deal until I add the post I already pointed out

I agree with Max.

Another agreement, completely opposite to the one before. Yes this wouldn't be scummy on it's own, but you, Friend, seem to be trying to appeal to everyone, something I mostly see in scum

Oh yeah, we can't forget about the most obvious attempt to buddy up in the whole thread can we?

And why would you like to start a wagon on vollkan, who has arguably been one of the most pro-town players so far in this early game?

That's at least 3 right?
Again, may not be buddying up
But definitely AtE

[Friend]

LOL

Quote-by-quote:

1. RVS comment
2. He was the only one posting in-thread at the time
3. He volunteered to claim first
4. ??? That's not buddying
5. Agreeing with people...whoa
6. See above
7. vollkan was, in my mind, acting very pro-town. That's the only one that I guess could be buddying, but even that is not a scumtell.

No AtE (show it to me) and no buddying. Get your facts straight.

[Xite91]

Uhm, I just showed you how it's AtE
considering that you're agreeing with everyone and all

1) yeah, but with the next two, you should see my point
2) Seraphim and I did too
3) I don't recall, but that makes some sense
you were throwing his name out a lot though, makes me suspicious
4) said that, then said that it could lead up to it
5) AtE (agreeing with people like you have been seems like it to me)
6) ^
7) How isn't it?

pretty sure I have my facts straight

[Andrius]

Ok, so you're the one that started this whole mass popularity claim idea right?

To be fair, I think I mentioned it first, and vollkan claimed first.

I noticed that you didn't bother mentioning me at all in that big post of interesting things. :/ This like reverse buddying?

@ Max: You do know that we're creating neighborhoods, not masons, right? You've called them mason QTs, so I'm just making sure you know.
And for the record, I'm willing to support the day-after claim. Hell, maybe we should claim neighborhoods D3, after we've established some connections. Then again, that defeats the purpose of keeping the town semi-informed, so.

@andrius, I dont know, it was just a question. (popularity being nonrandom)

Look at your role in your role PM, and see if it could explain your spot on the popularity ladder. That's why I think popularity is nonrandom.

Re: Friend's buddying with me: I was the most active poster until I went to my friend's house earlier today. That could explain it. But I don't know what to say about the buddying.

7. vollkan was, in my mind, acting very pro-town.

He looks town now. PD and I know better though.

Ok, so I'm really torn on some of the players, namely Friend, Xite and Tasky. They're all relatively new here, so I keep looking at some actions as n00by (including some of the buddying, but again, I was the most active poster.) However, while they are newbies, they did sign up for a theme game, which is inherently harder, so they brought this on themselves, in a way.

I'll do a reread soon, and see what I come up with.

[Friend]

How isn't buddying a scumtell? Is that your question?

And you have a wrong definition of AtE btw. Agreeing with people is not AtE.

[Xite91]

Ok, so you're the one that started this whole mass popularity claim idea right?

1) To be fair, I think I mentioned it first, and vollkan claimed first.

2) I noticed that you didn't bother mentioning me at all in that big post of interesting things. :/ This like reverse buddying?

@andrius, I dont know, it was just a question. (popularity being nonrandom)

3) Look at your role in your role PM, and see if it could explain your spot on the popularity ladder. That's why I think popularity is nonrandom.

4) Ok, so I'm really torn on some of the players, namely Friend, Xite and Tasky. They're all relatively new here, so I keep looking at some actions as n00by (including some of the buddying, but again, I was the most active poster.) However, while they are newbies, they did sign up for a theme game, which is inherently harder, so they brought this on themselves, in a way.

1) May have missed it, will re-read. I really think it was him first (I went back and checked on the first person to mention it when I made my big post of things, part of the reason I noticed friend at all)
2) Nope, just not seeing anything scummy/worth mentioning from you yet.
3) Exactly what I've been saying
4) Please don't blame it on noobieness we could be alts, or in my case played elsewhere. I thuroughly believe in what I'm saying.

How isn't buddying a scumtell? Is that your question?

And you have a wrong definition of AtE btw. Agreeing with people is not AtE.

And yes, that is my question. It seems to me that buddying is almost always a scumtell. Maybe not every time but a lot of the time.
Appeal to Emotions? Uhm, that's what it seems like you're doing. Therefore AtE

[NicolBolas]

1)I believe that freedom to choose whoever you want to befriend is the way to go, because of what somebody brought up- Scum can just take advantage of the extra information to plan their nightkills accordingly.

1) how?

Scum can isolate people, prevent pairings they dont want, or maybe they can do more than that.

@andrius, I will not comment more on that, but I think i see what you mean.

@xite- I do not really see these posts as buddying. I just see them as questioning/ talking to the people that friend wants to. I dont believe that is buddying. You are confusing me with you saying "AtE". AtE is appeal to emotion. I do not see appeals to emotion in these posts. Your case on friend seems to be based on misinterpretations. Is it? You point out several things as scummy, which i do not find scummy. an example of this is you pointing out that friend was the one who proposed the mass claim of popularity. I fail to see where that is scummy. It leads to more information. I think that i will

unvote vote:Xite

because of your effort to make a wordy and confusing case and not have anybody try to puzzle it out. (preview edit: Show me the appeals to emotion that you see. I do not believe simply agreeing with others is AtE.)

[Andrius]

@andrius, I will not comment more on that, but I think i see what you mean.

Ok good.

1) May have missed it, will re-read. I really think it was him first (I went back and checked on the first person to mention it when I made my big post of things, part of the reason I noticed friend at all)
2) Nope, just not seeing anything scummy/worth mentioning from you yet.
3) Exactly what I've been saying
4) Please don't blame it on noobieness we could be alts, or in my case played elsewhere. I thuroughly believe in what I'm saying.

2) I guess that's acceptable at the moment.
3) Ok good.
4) Alts? lol True, but MS has a specific way we work, and how we tick.

Man I'm too tired to post content. I'll just leave and go work on my large theme setup, and prevent myself from posting off-topic chat.

[Xite91]

@Nic, it's the way he does it that seems to me like AtE
I'm going to be nice and not repost my whole post, you can just go back and reread it. It was my tell on how he was doing it, that's all.
The other part, where he asks for a massclaim, that was because he himself said, it probably won't lead to catching scum, which to me meas useless info until we find reason for it.
I don't see what you meant about the nk though. Yeah, they can prevent certain pairings, but that in turn leads to more information.

@Andrius
1) on reread, he was the first one to mention a mass claim
all you did was soft claim your popularity
4) uhm ok?

[Friend]

Xite's case is laughably poor, but I'm not entirely sold on him being scum yet.

[PranaDevil]

Xite has made a couple of decent points, regarding Friend's buddying and pushing the popularity claim stuff etc. But... it feels forced, and I don't like it.

As it stands, I'm still against Tasky too.

Also, something I noticed. Regarding the choices of who to talk to, someone said that scum could avoid talking to people unless we set up who we can each talk to, as it stands that would be impossible without outing themselves as either scum, or a plank. We've revealed our popularity, so if scum don't pick someone to Neighbor with who is below them in the list, we would obviously know when it came to revealing who picked who etc.

[NicolBolas]

@xite- It could also "frame" people

Really, I do not really get why xite believes friend is scummy.

@prana- plank? What is a plank?

[PranaDevil]

plank - tit, idiot, prized pillock, smeg head, etc.

[NicolBolas]

Ah. english, i see. /offtopic

[Sando]

Firstly, 6th most popular.

I agree with all of Max's points regarding who we should be picking overnight. But on the topic of popularity changes, why do people assume we'll get told if it happens?

Tasky and Xite are both obvious targets today. I feel more strongly about Tasky, Xite is a pretty easy target for some of his posts I feel, and Tasky has taken advantage of this:

so you really think depriving us of the only weapon we have against scum, discussion, will be good for town?

Not much, but he's taking the opportunity to throw out attacks without actually calling someone scummy, FOS/Voting them etc.

Xites wall-o-text seems like scum desperation.

Prana makes an excellent point about scum being unable to simply not neighbourise someone, further reinforces max's points.

Vote: Tasky

[NicolBolas]

Popularity List:
1. Max
2. PranaDevil
3. Scott Brosius
4. NicolBolas
5. vollkan
6. Sando
7. Seraphim
8. Friend
9. TheLonging
10. Andrius
11. Tasky
12. Xite91

Just putting this list where everyone can see it.

I'm really bored, so I read thru the whole game at least three times so far. I'm torn between Tasky and Xite.

@Tasky, Your odd behavior makes you seem scummy to me. What are your suspects? Please solidify your stance.

@xite- I'm unsure on how to approach you. Your case on friend is full of crap. Do you have any stronger evidence that friend is scummy other than what you pointed out?

Also, Tasky has 4 votes. 7 votes needed before he is kicked out of the school, right?

[Tasky]

I believe that freedom to choose whoever you want to befriend is the way to go, because of what somebody brought up- Scum can just take advantage of the extra information to plan their nightkills accordingly. I think this is bad.

But, you should claim who you befriended, why, and what your impressions during the night was

. Everyone, you should be aware who you talk to could be scum, and act accordingly. If i’m correct, everyone has claimed their popularity, so I believe that is all we really need to talk about the neighborzing thing. Now, can we leave that subject at rest?

[...]

I think it would be a bad idea to claim who we befriended

, until it is necessary, because if we claim, scum can use that information.

[...]

I see a quite big internal contradiction in this post... don't like it, but it doesn't stop here...

1)I believe that freedom to choose whoever you want to befriend is the way to go, because of what somebody brought up- Scum can just take advantage of the extra information to plan their nightkills accordingly.

1) how?

Scum can isolate people, prevent pairings they dont want, or maybe they can do more than that.

wait a moment... you say that "Scum can isolate people, prevent pairings they dont want"... and you say the way to avoid that is letting everybody pick his neighbor freely... but how exactly is that going to avoid letting scum do what they want? and wouldn't the "pick the one below you"-thing (or any other random, prefixed method) avoid this nicely and cleanly?
so, you are contradicting yourself again...

_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_

Tasky and Xite are both obvious targets today. I feel more strongly about Tasky, Xite is a pretty easy target for some of his posts I feel, and Tasky has taken advantage of this:

so you really think depriving us of the only weapon we have against scum, discussion, will be good for town?

Not much, but he's taking the opportunity to throw out attacks without actually calling someone scummy, FOS/Voting them etc.

how exactly do you make the equation ["take advantage of someone" = "asking someone a question"] ?

Xites wall-o-text seems like scum desperation.

wowowo... if everybody who likes to post wall-o-text was scum, we'd have to lynch almost everybody on MafiaScum...

putting those two things together it looks to me like Sando came here, saw the case against me and Xite and wants to join it... but he doesn't want to look like he is just blindly following the others, so he looks for some (rather poor) excuses to do so...
this looks very much like scum trying to get on a bandwagon...

therefore UNVOTE:
VOTE: Sando

[Tasky]

EBWOP:
I wanted to respond to this...

What else i dont like about him is: his very weak vote on Seraphrim. He is still holding that vote, and i do not see why. He is not even commenting on Sera anymore.
@Tasky- do you still find him scummy?

why exactly should I comment on Sera if he didn't post anything at all since I placed my vote? why should I change my vote if he didn't say anything that could make me change my mind? I just changed it now, because I got a bigger scum-tell from someone else.
yeah, until he answers me, I find him scummy... we'll see as soon as we hear from him

[Sando]

how exactly do you make the equation ["take advantage of someone" = "asking someone a question"] ?

It's who you're attacking, it's an easy target, and it looks a lot like you wanted to get some easy shots in for the sake of it on an easy target.

wowowo... if everybody who likes to post wall-o-text was scum, we'd have to lynch almost everybody on MafiaScum...

I said his wall-o-text looked scummy, I did not say that every wall-o-text is scummy, nice try though.

[Tasky]

how exactly do you make the equation ["take advantage of someone" = "asking someone a question"] ?

It's who you're attacking, it's an easy target, and it looks a lot like you wanted to get some easy shots in for the sake of it on an easy target.

so one shouldn't ask explanation for a post that just seems wrong? I mean, he was saying "It was an idea to end day 1 early so that scumhunting might be easier." I really cannot agree with this, so I asked him if he really meant it that way... I still don't see the "attack on a weak target"... why exactly was Xite an easy target there?

wowowo... if everybody who likes to post wall-o-text was scum, we'd have to lynch almost everybody on MafiaScum...

I said his wall-o-text looked scummy, I did not say that every wall-o-text is scummy, nice try though.

you never explained why his wall-o-text is scummy...

this is just gut, but the "nice try though"-thing really feels scummy... scum usually wants to point out that they just avoided something they feel is a trap...

[Sando]

'Nice try though' was me sarcastically implying that it was in no way a nice try, and was in fact a terrible argument. How am I pointing out a trap? Do you know what a 'trap' is? Pointing out a fallacy in someones argument isn't scummy by the way, pretty sure it's a basic tenant of scumhunting in fact.

Xite was an easy target because he made a blatantly rediculous suggestion. It's like picking on the newbie that suggest a no-lynch D1, it's an easy way to appear pro-town. It's so obviously a terrible idea, trying to make something of it like that is just trying to make yourself look pro-town in an easy way.

I said it looked like scum-desperation, he starts getting a lot of attention, and he suddenly starts bringing up these major wall-o-texts.