Mini #893 - Dollhouse Mafia (Game Over!)

[SerialClergyman]

CTD, there's a difference between joining a bandwagon on the most voted player in the game and really pushing a case you believe in that happens to be wrong. I perhaps phrased the above incorrectly, obviously almost everyone will end up accusing an innocent at some point, the difference is in how controversial the viewpoint is. Someone who is medium-late on every wagon doesn't look like an ideal townie, no matter really what the flips.

[SerialClergyman]

I totally disagree scum wouldn't quick hammer a soon to be imprinted buddy.

I'm going to vote no lynch within a few hours so we can move this game along. Any objections?

[SerialClergyman]

farside is almost certainly town. I imprinted her and declared her town 5 pages ago and she has not gotten a single imprint since. If she and two scum buddies ignored that gift then she's got amazing self-control.

So now that's clear, farside should convince herself elvis is town and we'll have a scumbusting trio of awesome.

True story.

[SerialClergyman]

Limerick's imprinters are Limerick, KoC, farside22 and Plum/Socrates

Florida (limerick) (6) - Florida(limerick), Ohio(Koc), Kansas(farside), Colorado(CTD), Montana(pug), Hawaii(buttonmen)

Interestingly, when Limerick was second in line to be imprinted when Socrates replaced in, he had Socrates' support. Since then he lost it. So he's actually had 7 unique people voting to imprint him. The people who haven't are SC, elvis and Reck - oddly enough. I think that puts two scum on his imprint wagon, personally (thinking Reck is scum and elvis and I aren't.) Socrates is a weird one because he didn't side with his predecessor and that could well be due to a scum strategy.

[SerialClergyman]

In all -

Ohio

(5) -

Nevada

,

Florida

, Arizona,

Ohio

,

Colorado

Colorado

(5) -

Nevada

,

Ohio

,

Colorado

, Iowa,

Florida

Hawaii

(5) -

Nevada

, Arizona,

Kansas

,

Colorado

,

Hawaii

Wow. So it turns out, of those on that initial imprint push on D1 before DN was lynched, we have one confirmed scum, one confirmed town (starbuck) and EVERY OTHER VOTE OR NOMINATION barring one imprint from Reck all came from people who are currently on the Limerick imprint.

Essentially, whenever imprints have been decided, Serial, Elvis and Plum have been nowhere near those being imprinted.

[SerialClergyman]

I think the no lynch was hammered by Socrates, wasn't it?

[SerialClergyman]

That sounds nothing like what CTD was saying, Soc.

I didn't appreciate that - I was going to hammer yesterday but figured I'd let final discussions happen and now there's a conversation. I'll be around to hammer after CTD writes up his comments on farside's stuff.

[SerialClergyman]

Sorry, that's a bit of ambiguous word usage there from me. I didn't appreciate that we hadn't had a No Lynch hammered - by that I mean I didn't 'realise' we hadn't had a no lynch hammered.

I appreciate everything you write

[SerialClergyman]

Could you rephrase that last bit, farside? I'm not understanding wht is plauging you.

[SerialClergyman]

..?

Because I'm not sure of their alignment?

And even if I was, an investigation of me tells me nothing I don't know already. If you had the power to give a 1-shot cop to someone in the town, would you give it to someone who wanted to investigate you?

[SerialClergyman]

I seriously don't.

I'll tell you my side of what you're raising and see if that addresses something. I think button is town, but I'm not sure. I am conflicted on Limerick and think it's possible he is scum. I don't particularly think either will make the best choices while imprinted and am worried that imprinting scum is worse than imprinting town is good. The people I have the most strong town read on, you and elvis, are nowhere near being imprinted. This makes me even less happy about an incestuous (not meant to be an insult, just a way of describing the situation) group of imprinters who are getting close to or physically imprinting people without 2 probable townies. If I squeeze Soc into that mix, it's without 3 townies. This is problematic. Even if I only assume me and elvis town, I know there's at least two scum in the individuals imprinting Limerick and Buttonmen, and given the wagons are close to identical there's a good chance that both scum have voted for both of them.

So in general, I am unhappy about their imprints.

However, you've given me an idea.

@all

I don't think many people have suspicion of farside. There might be a lingering bit. But as I said earlier, I imprinted her and declared her town, and not a single other person chimed in, which suggests to me she definitely doesn't have a group of daytalking friends looking to capitalise on a gift. I think she's genuine, almost certainly town and isn't tainted by the hate that elvis and I are. In fact, she spat out a fair bit of that herself during her time.

So I say we should GET HER IMPRINTED before we no lynch. She hasn't got many votes at the moment, but I can't see why most people who have a town read on her can't imprint her. We'll have 3 imprinted then, but most people were looking at imprinting 2-3 anyway, so it won't be too crowded.

So get it done. Imprint her now. I think we can get her imprinted, and that will be outside that sphere of influence that's been doing most of thei mprinting so far.

And farside, you can use whatever ability on me you like.

[SerialClergyman]

698 elvis says Reck is an alternate choice for scum. (lists 3 others she thinks are actual scum.
763 farside says that she doens't care for reck's turnaround.
782 SC posts case on Reck based on turnaround of opinion
801 Plum says my summary of Reck is disheartening and sees how similar Messiah and Reck are in their voting patterns.
847 CTD replaces Messiah and adds Reck to his scumlist as third behind VMD and SC.
856 Limerick says he doesn't like Reck, and links to pug.

This is a list of when people started suspecting reck. I don't think his opinion should hold much sway in keeping you off the imprint list tbh.

Nobody hammer for a while please, I really genuinely want to get this imprint up.

[SerialClergyman]

Why not, it's just the two of us in this intimate setting

More seriously, if you think it's something they can react to, hold your thought till tomorrow, you're probably unlikely to be killed even if they get a kill.

And if it's something we can't do anything about even if we knew it was a possibility, probably better to keep that under your hat too. I don't know, use your judgement.

[SerialClergyman]

No, the scum get an ability of some kind. They can only use one ability each night. Unlike the town, the scum will be able to use that ability for the rest of the game. If they are imprinted more than once, they can 'collect' abilities. So they only way scum could get a kill and an ability is if they're imprinted twice and they get the kill ability one of those two nights. Even then, they can only use EITHER the kill or the ability each night.

Of course, multiple scum could get abilities though, so if all three scum had kills, the scum could kill three people per night.

[SerialClergyman]

thanks that makes me feel better now.

Your buddying nauseates me!!!

[SerialClergyman]

Just to summarise for those skimming the thread - could you all
a) Not hammer the nolynch,
b) imprint farside.

She's been pushing around trying to find scum, she didn't get any support for my attempt to imprint her five pages ago which suggests she doesn't have scumbuddies who are prepared to imprint her and I think in general she is looking solidly town. If you really don't want to imprint farside, can you say so and give a reason why as well please.

[SerialClergyman]

As much as I appreciate someone feeling amused by one of my many clever witticisms, I think there are more pressing matters at hand.

Would you imprint farside or explain why not, please?

[SerialClergyman]

Farside is removed from both Reck and myself, the two biggest suspects of today. I can't think of anyone who actively thinks she's scum apart from Reck, even elvis has changed her mind on farside. I imprinted her, elvis said she read town. If she were scum, there would be three daytalking players who have a strong vested interest in seeing her imprinted. You can't tell me that none of them would even put a feeler out about possibly getting her imprinted. She would have been a perfect candidate. It's not just that she didn't get a triple imprint directly after, it's that there was no reaction at all from anyone.

And more than that, farside has hardly been my buddy this game. We've been at loggerheads, with serious personal, playstyle and logical issues with each other. It's not the same as me imprinting elvis, this is a thorn in your side suddenly becoming an ally, and that's fruit that's too sweet for scum to ignore, I'm sure.

What is the very strong scum motivation? Explain to me the scenario.

[SerialClergyman]

It might be wildly paranoid speculation with no grounding to base it on, but I would say it makes for a compelling narrative, does it not?

I agree absolutely with everything in this sentence, especially about my ownership of a twirlable long moustache.

Am I the one that is being too paranoid now?

Yes. A thousand times yes. For this to make sense, I have to be scum (something you know to be unlikely, in that you are imprinting me and have thought me town for ages) and farisde has to be scum (any reason to think that?) and we'd have to be scum TOGETHER which means we had manufactured every fight in thread. I think the chances that all of those together are true are ridiculously small based on play so far.

Of course, I could be town and wrongly trying to clear farside scum, but I also think that's unlikely given everything else I've said recently. Or I could be scum and bizarrely trying to imprint farside town, but that's probably a stretch too.

I don't know, is it worth not joining this because there's a chance of the 'SC and farside are both scum together' scenario being true, even if it's totally outlandish and actively contradicted by almost every major event in the game? Up to you, I suppose.

I really want this to happen. You didn't vote for either of the imprinted (I think), are you happy with them being the only ones imprinted? When elvis and I weren't voting them either?

[SerialClergyman]

Limerick, I'd point out that when you first mentioned your objection to a different number of imprints you were asking for an additional one, now you're denying a third. If farside had been imprinted twice and you were the candidate for the third imprint rather than the other way around, would you still be taking this line?

[SerialClergyman]

lol simulpost. We're like peas on a pod now. Who knew?

[SerialClergyman]

I think everyone has given an answer except pug and we need +1 imprint to get it done.

Come on little man, your town needs you!

[SerialClergyman]

Lets wait to head from Limerick before pushing the issue further, yes?

[SerialClergyman]

Limerick, can you go into more detail? Flavour etc?

[SerialClergyman]

Thanks, mate.

Button - could you provide your own flavour as well, please?

[SerialClergyman]

You can always quote someone to see how they wrote it exactly, but essentially you type (with square brackets)

(url=http://blah.com)Words you want the link to be(/url)

[SerialClergyman]

I don't get the gun + holster stuff. Was that part of your flavour at all, button, or are you just describing things with your natural flair?

[SerialClergyman]

Also, when did you guys sumbit your choices? Early in the night pahse or late?

[SerialClergyman]

There are many roles that are easily claimed as scum. Doc, for example. Roleblocker too.

I'm not 100% sure what you guys were hoping for, 3 x cop was never exactly going to be likely.

For me, the value in lynching buttonman has just gotten significantly higher, because I don't like his flavour and the fact he didn't vig despite saying he would, and his switch of targets and because limerick and buttonman are now very dangerous if scum.

Socrates, have you done any meta on KoC? That's my only real concern.

[SerialClergyman]

Also, it's possible that button did shoot me and farside blocked it.

imprint farside

[SerialClergyman]

This is a fair point, unless he just shot me and is now lying about target.

[SerialClergyman]

Another fair point.

[SerialClergyman]

Rec, weren't you screaming about farside scum yesterday? Was that all you needed to change things around?

[SerialClergyman]

Zzz. I'm at a loss. I hate being at a loss.

Anyone have any bright ideas?

[SerialClergyman]

lynching elvis or farside is on the opposite of the spectrum from where bright ideas lay.

I've had my scum view of reck faded for some reason. Maybe I'm falling for his disaffected style but I'm not really sure of him being scum. KoC is a decent choice but for me it'd essentially be a policy lynch. One of the vigs is a safe lynch given if they're townies it's like lynching a townie but if they're scum it's like lynching killer scum.

[SerialClergyman]

How do you know if Limerick was honest or not?

It's possible farside is lying, but I don't think she is. She could have just said vig like the two of you, she went last, she knew she couldn't be disproved.

[SerialClergyman]

The reason why I said the vigs were better targets is because I believe farside to be town, not because of what you claimed. I don't think there's much reason to claim doc in her position.

[SerialClergyman]

You and farside have been, to some lesser or greater degree, at loggerheads for much of this game while not necessarily calling each other outright scum.

Suddenly she is a perfect third imprint, when I could have sworn we wanted two,

and you're trying to hold off the nolynch until you get what you want.

I don't buy it. Two imprints is enough for tonight.

You either think I'm town, and therefore would be willing to imprint me, or think I'm scum, and therefore do not. This isn't a multi faction game, people here are scum or town, and the fact that you've got fence posts up your arse for about half the players in the game at this point is most irksome.

You don't think I'm scum - ergo, you must think I am town/leaning town. You *should* want town players imprinted as a townie. Saying "I don't think you're scum, but I won't imprint you" is crazy.

[SerialClergyman]

I'm going to have limited access to mafia for a day or two, so I'll probably only be able to make small mobile posts, not large keyboard posts. (Cue joy)

[SerialClergyman]

Sorry I've been absent, I went skydiving for the first time this morning and have generally been a bit busy so am trying to psyche up.

I'm up for lynching KoC and imprinting noone.

vote KoC

[SerialClergyman]

Limerick, I've never particularly thought farside was scum. You can have a look through my iso but I think you'd be hardpressed to find me saying anywhere that she was likely to be scum.

The key thing that made me want to imprint her was the fact I didn't like the imprints at the time and especially their wagons and wanted someone completely fresh in there. If that couldn't be elvis or me, the most likely-town other option was farside. Also, the more spontaeneous things that happen the better it is to root out the nighttalking scum, I think.

Limerick or button, do you want to vig KoC tonight and we'll go after a different lynch? Seems like a waste to string him up.

[SerialClergyman]

Re: skydiving - it was great! I have a vague fear of heights, so it was a bit challenging, but easier than I thought it'd be. You're so high up you don't see 'ground', like rocks and trees, you just see a pretty patchwork picture. And you don't have to jump at all, the guy in tandem with you makes the decision to go. So apart from that it's all easy, and quite peaceful. I guess it's a terribly rigorous active participation.

[SerialClergyman]

Yep, it was a weak but spirited attempt at a trap.

[SerialClergyman]

I think Limerick in general has an OMGUS-y style. I remember the same thing happening after I made a case against him. His post is here.

You'll notice that 2, 3, 4, and 5 all are directly related to farside's case on you.

The rest of the case (being wary about imprinting again, the votes she's laid and asking to claim last) is fair, just relatively minor in my eyes.

I actually don't mind his efforts, nor do I mind the OMGUS. I think the whole episode has made me feel better about Limerick actually.

unvote, vote buttonman

[SerialClergyman]

I've never thought OMGUS was a scumtell. Town do it just as much as scum do.

What I liked about Limerick was that it looked like he was genuine in his searching and case making. His points that weren't OMGUS are true, and well-researched. It looks exactly like he's a townie who thinks he's being targetted by scum and goes off to find evidence for that conclusion. It doesn't look like a strategic, constructed case.

[SerialClergyman]

Socrates, before I even read anything, I like the idea of your list of words. I think WIFOM and OMGUS need a total theory workout (WIFOM =/= argument over, OMGUS =/= argument over or scumtell).

But by FAR the most meaningless word on site is 'misrep'. I have almost never seen scum purposefully take a statement and change it's meaning in order to make someone look worse. 99.999% of 'misreps' are simply natural 'Chinese whispers-esque' variations in understanding of meaning and context.

As for KoC - I just have a gut feeling on buttonman that I want him lynched now more than ever. I don't have that about KoC, and I'm unwilling to keep voting an empty slot. I think I switched because I want my vote to reflect my desire at the moment, which is a button lynch.

[SerialClergyman]

If town do it just as much as scum then isn't it a null tell.
What about my thought on the limerick/buttonman interaction and imprints with each other?

Two points. OMGUS is not a scumtell answers your 'you see him omgus' part, and the stuff below about him being a frustrated townie feeling aggreived at being targeted answers the 'and you think he's town???' part.

[SerialClergyman]

but I think that in looking to bring up evidence to defend myself, I look to find contradictions in whatever my attacker said about me, so I find other stuff when I look.

This is a very, very difficult style of play. It leads you to make cases on obviously otwn players like farside and not obvious-but-still-town players like me. You need to be fighting confirmation bias at every turn. If you can pull it off, it's a powerful playstyle.

[SerialClergyman]

farside, I don't think you're on the right track and I'm not sure what the answers to your question would prove one way or another.

I was imprinting pug for a while, I have been in favour of a few different styles of imprint. I never specifically said two only (I think), but I often said to keep the imprint pool small. It's a reasonable charge to say that I changed my mind, just the conclusion that I'm scummy because of it is lacking.

I don't see why saying 'I believe in two imprints no matter what' and never deviating from that is more likely to be town.

[SerialClergyman]

Well, I found his link and I say at one poitn that I'd prefer <3 lynches (and then joke about it not being a heart).

So yep, he has his facts straight (just not his conclusions).

[SerialClergyman]

Lim - things change. I finally had someone I was confident was town and would have a chance of being imprinted. I would do it again. I worry when I see people say even though I think she's town I won't imprint her because of an arbitrary number I decided on earlier when I had less information.

As for the stuff about pug. all I'm getting is that I preferred his being imprinted (and farside's obviously) to you being imprinted, which was true. I don't think I would have needed any crazy special plan to that end, nor did I make any secret of it. But either way, the timing isn't as convinient as you say. You were defeinitely looking more likely to be imprinted than pug for some time, and I never switched my opinion then, or changed my mind on how many were needed. I only did that when I saw that farside was likely town and had a chance (unlike me or EK) to be imprinted.

[SerialClergyman]

I don't think they are anti-town, I jsut think it's gone well past the point of diminished returns.

I actually have a massive gut town read on Lim now for some reason. There are less and less people I'm prepared to vote atm.

[SerialClergyman]

If you're fine with both players, why do you need to re-read them? Why don't ou reread them then let us know your thoughts?

[SerialClergyman]

Hello, responding.

I've been busy and low activity around but even then 72 hours is pretty lame, sorry kids.

Part of my frustration with this game is feeling behind the 8 ball, I'm not confident in many of my theories at the moment.

I wonder why (myself included) we all lost our suspicion of Reck that was almost universal yesterday.

I also wonder why buttonman has gone from so town as to be imprinted to a solid lynch candidate.

[SerialClergyman]

..

Wanna check that imprint again, champ?

[SerialClergyman]

So Reck has given me a reason to think he's town. His assesment for me for meta reasons essentially outed him as scum in another game. It looks like it was a real attempt from him to find my alignment

KoC also died in a game of mine and flipped town while playing identically to how he's been playing here.

In short - I'm sad and confused.

I'm going to pull an epic gut scum read and vote CTD, even though I've got no chance of lynching him.

farside - I know that you're bound to be suspicious after that other game where I flipped scum. The key difference I'll point you to is willingness to self-preserve.

[SerialClergyman]

facepalm.

vote CTD

imprint Serial, farside and elvis.

[SerialClergyman]

Why?

[SerialClergyman]

Reck, my alignment is unconfirmed in that game - if anyone from that other game looks at this one it'll be obvious what it is. I didn't attack you in that game for slipping in this one but you gotta stop talking about it.

In more general terms, I was thrown by Koc acting identically in another game as town.

At least with Vala scum it means my D1 hammer of Deathnote did indeed stop at least one scum from getting an imprint.

I'll do some analysis of this in a sec, but I think it shows CTD shouldn't be considered almost confirmed, at least.

WAGONS:

D1 Lynch.

Deathnote

(7) - Elvis, Socrates, Pug, Iowa, CrashTextDummy, Limerick/Ortolan, SerialClergyman
Elvis (2) -

Starbuck

, Farside
SerialClergyman (1) -

button

Not Voting (2) -

Deathnote

,

VMD/KoC

D1 imprints

In all -

VMD/KoC

(5) -

Deathnote

, Limerick/Ortolan,

Starbuck

,

VMD/KoC

, CrashTextDummy
CrashTextDummy (5) -

Deathnote

,

VMD/KoC

, CrashTextDummy, Iowa, Limerick/Ortolan

button

(5) -

Deathnote

,

Starbuck

, Farside, CrashTextDummy,

button

Peak of D2 push to lynch SC

SerialClergyman (4) -

button

, CrashTextDummy,

VMD/KoC

, Iowa

Starbuck

(3) - SerialClergyman, Socrates, Elvis

VMD/KoC

(1) - Farside

Not Voting (3) -

Starbuck

, Limerick/Ortolan, Pug

6 to lynch.

D2 lynch

Starbuck

(6) - SerialClergyman, Socrates, Elvis, Farside, Iowa , CrashTextDummy
SerialClergyman (3) -

button

,

VMD/KoC

,

Starbuck

Not Voting (2) - Limerick/Ortolan, Pug

6 to lynch.

D3 Imprints

button

(6) -

button

, Farside,

VMD/KoC

, Limerick/Ortolan, Pug, Iowa
Limerick/Ortolan (6) - Limerick/Ortolan,

VMD/KoC

, Farside, CrashTextDummy, Pug,

button

Farside (6) - SerialClergyman, Farside, Elvis, CrashTextDummy, Socrates, Limerick/Ortolan
Pug (3) - SerialClergyman, Iowa, Pug
Socrates (3) - Iowa, Socrates,

VMD/KoC

Elvis (2) - Iowa, SerialClergyman

VMD/KoC

(1) -

VMD/KoC

Iowa (1) - Iowa
SerialClergyman (1) - Socrates
CrashTextDummy (1) – CrashTextDummy

D3 lynch

button

(6) - Elvis, Farside, SerialClergyman, Pug, Socrates, Iowa

VMD/KoC

(1) - CrashTextDummy
Farside (1) - Limerick/Ortolan

Not Voting (2) -

button

,

VMD/KoC

6 to lynch.

D4 lynch

VMD/KoC

(5) - Elvis, Socrates, CrashTextDummy, Pug, Iowa
CrashTextDummy (1) - SerialClergyman
No Lynch (1) -

VMD/KoC

Not Voting (2) - Limerick/Ortolan, Farside

5 to lynch.

[SerialClergyman]

Dammit, I thought I got everyone. Iowa = Reck, sorry.

[SerialClergyman]

The more I look at the wagons, the more I think limerick or CTD are likely to be scum.

[SerialClergyman]

*and

[SerialClergyman]

I concur. I stuck up for him in his long argument with farside, but wagon analysis doesn't lie, and his votes are dodgy as.

vote ortolan

[SerialClergyman]

imprint farside and elvis

[SerialClergyman]

Look at the d1 imprint wagon. If ortilan flips scum, ctd had 3 scum and himself on his imprint wagon. He switched from backing starbuck to voting her.

However Elvis makes some good points, specifically about the buttonman lynch.

I suggest we lynch ortolan. There is less controversy there I think.

[SerialClergyman]

I'm doing the opposite of setting up lynches. I'm saying let's stop the speculation about scum teams and lynch ortolan who comes out of this looking very bad

[SerialClergyman]

Who is scum?

[SerialClergyman]

Farside, I vaugely agree with the reck thing but I was leaning town on him anyway.

[SerialClergyman]

farside - I will live with your suspicion.

CTD - how am I being selective with my choices? Are they not the biggest moments of the game? What would you like to add?

[SerialClergyman]

[quote]Based on interactions with VMD, I pretty strongly doubt that Elvis is scum. VMD's reaction to Elvis' theory that SC is town with her doesn't read to me like a bus. They actually had quite a few interactions, and I feel that way about most of them. /quote]

Why does this give town points to elvis but not to me?

farside - why are you and elvis allowed to go talking about ortolan's buddies but you got all snarky at me when I did? Honestly though, I think you can reason yourself out of a breain at the moment. It feels like we're really deep into this game but we've only had 4 flips, and that means we've only got a 1/4 chance of lynching scum and a 1/28 chance of correctly picking the team if we were doing it randomly - lets not get ahead of ourselves. I think Ortolan is a good lynch - even ctd tosses a few scum points his way, and I know farside and elvis both think it - lets knock him off.

I was going to go do some actual analysis, one sec.

[SerialClergyman]

farside - I wasn't having a go, perhaps snarkiness is the wrong word. I'm all good

I get your suspicions, I just don't know what to say to them. If I bring up protown stuff you'll mark it down as WIFOM, and it is. My singlehanded push to get you imprinted, for example, is listed as a WIFOM-y scumtell. I can only shrug. I get where you're coming from, I know you've seen me first hand as scum and that you're aware of some of the tricks up my sleeve. What else can I say?

I guess my point with the snarkiness comment was even with all that, and even with the paranoid playstyle, just try to think about what I'm saying and not go into *SC is scum* mode. I've been the least likely person to set up lynches, both you and elvis are doing much more in that direction that I am, so don't dismiss what I write as having that goal. You get me?

Now - if you want to resolve your suspicion of me, tell me the best way I can show you something that might make you think twice about your read.

If you don't care about it because I'm not your top lynch target, lets deal with it later and look at who we should lynch.

[SerialClergyman]

Ortolan was on:

VMD

and CTDs imprint wagon D1 but not on

buttonman.

He came in late to the Deathnote wagon, which we know wasn't a huge team bus because both known scum weren't on it.

He didn't vote the entireity of D2, ignoring the SC and SB wagons.

He imprinted button and himself, and argued agaisnt farside for a long time before capitulation.

He spent the next day voting farside .

He finally avoided the wagon on KoC.

In fact - I don't think he's ever been on a wagon. He's been avoid-the-wagon man. This is suspect enough, except he's also been imprint-ahoy man. He happens to have his imprints often synced up with the scum. His imprint votes in my analysis (so imprints at the times they were close to successful) have mirrored VMD exactly with one exception - the imprint of farside, but even then he argued against that for days before giving in.

That's where most of my suspicion is. I can't see him as contributing to scumhunting, it looks like he's positioning himself away from the wagons and his imprinting record is strongly pro-scum.

[SerialClergyman]

farside, are you voting ortolan? Time to get more votes on the table I think

[SerialClergyman]

elvis? You up for a vote?

I think ortolan is L-2 at the moment then.

[SerialClergyman]

Oh you tease!


I don't negotiate with those who use their fun and sexy style to get what they want.

[SerialClergyman]

Flirting or no you might want to hold off now it's l-1 for all the haters to check in. But never fear -well savour the anticipation together...

[SerialClergyman]

Flirting or no you might want to hold off now it's l-1 for all the haters to check in. But never fear -well savour the anticipation together...

The suspense is terrible...

I hope it lasts.

... you've done this before, haven't you?

[SerialClergyman]

I remain convinced elvis and farside are town. I don't see anything to this push.

[SerialClergyman]

Although I do think farside you're totally off base iwth the 'vig vs doc' imprint thing. I think they're probably random.

If we hit scum with our next lynch we could go imprint crazy and imprint everyone, that's be 6 town imprints to 1 scum.

Even 6 town imprints to 2 scum isn't terrible, but losing 2 mislynches is too hefty a price, I think.

[SerialClergyman]

Well - you weren't given a choice, so it's not a scum choice. Buttonman wasn't scum, so it's not scum=offensive (vig), town=defensive (doc). I don't know what further evidence suggests it's anything but random.

[SerialClergyman]

Cos how bizarre is it to think that someone who fought really hard to imprint you is scum?? AMITRITE FARSIDE???

Anyways - needs more Socrates, CTD.

Especially Socrates, who was prodded, asked what the case on Ortolan was, then has been absent for almost prod-length time.

[SerialClergyman]

I get away from this thread for a day or two and look what rubbish resurfaces!

I turn a lot of guys off.

Flirting or no you might want to hold off now it's l-1 for all the haters to check in. But never fear -well savour the anticipation together...

The suspense is terrible...

I hope it lasts.

LAL.

Pul - are you an alt?

EK - One of the big reasons I think Reck is town is that he developed a town meta read on me based on an 'ongoing game'. The only ongoing game was one in which he was still alive. Which meant he was scum, because if he was town he wouldn't know

I

was town too. So he effectively claimed scum in that game, and cleared me in that game. I tried to ignore it and haven't mentioned it over there, and we've now both flipped, so I can type all this out without giving anything away.

I can't see him going through that shermozzle and talking about a meta read based on an ongoing game as scum.

There's a few other reasons, but I think that's as good as any.

I think we FEEL like we're so far into this game, but actually it's a 2/8 scum nightless setup at the moment. That means we have 5 lynches before lylo, provided noone has a kill. I think we've got 82 pages of discussion and it's time to start knocking people off. Ortolan has the benefit of being

a) More scummy than most.
b) Imprinted if scum.
c) The only reamining imprinted player that I didn't personally lead the charge for.
d) Someone with a scummy voting pattern.

[SerialClergyman]

Also, I don't think Reck has been consistent (cough D2 cough) but I also don't think it's a strong town tell. In fact, I'd even go so far as to say changing one's mind can be a town tell. It's just the opportunistic mindchange vs the considered and reluctant mind change you have to watch out for, in my opinion.

[SerialClergyman]

Pul - I know that, I was asking if you were a more experienced player who had created a new account to avoid recognition or meta or whatever.

I think so, yes. I have an edgy relationship with imprints. I don't know that they'll be that useful, and I do know that they make me worry that we'll lose a lynch as soon as they're done. I think we need to go all or nothing, I think only having 1 or 2 unconfirmed players get an imprint once ever does essentially nothing for us but makes me worried that we're actually one mislynch down (because they could NK at any time).

Either way, it's time to lynch I think.

[SerialClergyman]

*cough* serial.

Still - I think elvis should be imprinted, and I think we should keep imprinting her. Meta, her play, her voting, I'm completely behind elvis town.

[SerialClergyman]

Definitely keep it small.

The only other person I'm open to imprinting is farside because I think she's town and she's already got an ability, so it's not the end of the world if she gets another (either way she'll have to be treated as 'possibly has a kill').

[SerialClergyman]

This has been my theory too. Shall we get the ort lynch out of the way and see what happens?

[SerialClergyman]

- whereas town only get one-night access to whatever their ability is whenever they are imprinted. I

AFAIK this isn't true - you don't have one imprinted ability that you either get access to or not, you get a random (chosen by mod or w/e) ability each time.

So it's not giving farside a doc ability, it's giving her some new ability.

And while I appreciate that each night scum may gain a different ability, at the moment we all look at farside with the knowledge that she MIGHT have a kill up her sleeve. Imprinting her means it's more likely she does, if she's scum, but as far as we can tell it doesn't increase how many people we are vulnerable to.

[SerialClergyman]

gloating is unbecoming on you, farside

Well, two things.

Firstly, elvis is pretty likely to be town, given scum has no reason to give us that info and
secondly, farside is more likely to be town than before and if she's not, she definitely doesn't have a kill, so that takes the mislynch side of things out of it.

imprint farside and elvis

[SerialClergyman]

..

[SerialClergyman]

Sorry, I've Bren camping for a few days. Post coming soon

[SerialClergyman]

SC, after a day in which he lead the lynch against ortolan using a dazzling flurry of faulty or misleading evidence and speculating wildly on scum-pairs, has come up with nothing so far.

I remember as a debater after school I was invited to go back with my lads and do a joke friendly debate - a few gags and jibes in front of an audience that will be a bit of fun. We met up in the kebab shop an hour before the debate and jotted down a few one-liners.

When we got up to the stage there were a couple of hundred people watching and our opponents were writing furiously and had copious amounts of notes and we started to get a little worried about our relaxed approach to the event.

The speaker announced the debate, indicating that they would speak first. They got up and said 'Ladies and gentlemen, so far we have not heard a SINGLE piece of evidence from the negative team tonight.'

Everyone laughed, including us, and we realised we weren't going to be nearly as funny as we should have.

That little aside is just to roll my eyes at the quote from CTD above. As everyone that night recognised, you can't put forward any sort of argument or evidence if you aren't around.

The second order of business (now that I'm feelign all official) is to apologise form y absense. This is the last game I'm in at the moment, with life getitng very busy recently I've cut down from 6 to 1 and probably zero after this one. So I'm really trying, but my posts will be less frequent and long from here on out.

The third... ok, I'm over the signposting.

Ortolan flipping town is a bummer, but not the end of the world. Yesterday was a 1/4 chance, so I'm not kickign myself, especially given there's no NK if we get it wrong.

For whatever reason, my logical reads aren't doing very well. I'm happy with my town reads, at least, and I'm actually a bit nonplussed about the next lynch. I think farside, elvis and reck are town, so the others are a decent bet.

I still like the CTD lynch. If I was anyone but me and CTD was scum, I think I'd be close to confirmed town, but I just had that long game with farside where I bussed for days and days so she'd get all paranoid and wouldn't let herself think I'm town. But it's totally true anyway.

Pug is a fair lynch.

Pulidar is a fair lynch too.

Hell, I'm a fair lynch. But don't do that one.

It's bizarre to think that all those imprinted on D3 were town, unless farside isn't town.

The other person and I'm sorry SC it's just because of VMD's action is you.

Since when are you apologetic for suspecting me?

[SerialClergyman]

Seriously?

Sorry farside, I don't mean to guilt trip you. If you're referring to earlier in this game with all the drama then at the time I DID feel like you had some personal thing against me, but I didn't think that it was driving your scum read. And we're well past that now, aren't we? Suspect away...

I don't know, he's my gut read. Could be a terrible one, because he's obviously a good player and he did push the VRK wagon hard, but his posts make me itch.

[SerialClergyman]

Socrates didn't do anythign particularly different to the two town metas I have of him.

I'll join Pug's wagon, it's L-1 now.

vote Pug

[SerialClergyman]

While I appreciate your conservative sentiment, this page alone has taken 2.5 slow days to produce.

In general terms I agree with you, Pulidar, the only problem is that if we don't get any mafia we could convceivably end up with darside/elvis and scum/scum which would be a draw at best. So it's still not worth just going crazy.

[SerialClergyman]

No, I'm just saying it's worth discussing as opposed to just lynching off a list.

And there's no real problem from my point of view - you'll notice that the same lynches you've pointed to are the same ones I listed in my post as decent lynches. I'm pretty cool with nayone who isn't a town read at the moment.

[SerialClergyman]

You can figure it out from my post above, but for a more specific list:

Elvis
farside
XRECKX
Pul
Pug
CTD

[SerialClergyman]

Since when do you agree with me on CTD?

[SerialClergyman]

Hey kids, the last thing this thread needs is more drama. It's supposed to be a fun game, yeah? Let's try to keep it all on point.

Part of why this game can feel frustrating is that it's hard to tell how well we're doing. We've had 5 lynches and been wrong three times. In a normal game, that might be a loss, but without night kills, that's actually significantly above average, especially given how much of a presence scum have (4 voices/votes).

I think the main game-related thing I'm taking out of all this is that CTD is now opposed to the pug lynch and pro a Serial lynch. Is that a fair statement to make? When did you make that mental transition? What are your feelings about RECK?

[SerialClergyman]

There's a few other reasons, but I think that's as good as any.

I think we FEEL like we're so far into this game, but actually it's a 2/8 scum nightless setup at the moment. That means we have 5 lynches before lylo, provided noone has a kill. I think we've got 82 pages of discussion and it's time to start knocking people off. Ortolan has the benefit of being

a) More scummy than most.
b) Imprinted if scum.
c) The only reamining imprinted player that I didn't personally lead the charge for.
d) Someone with a scummy voting pattern.

I stand by this post. I think that most of it applies to pug, except the scummy voting pattern.

farside - what's with you looking for links in your scum suspects? Pug + CTD? Has that got anything more to it then pug is your top suspect and ctd is against that/kind of pissing you off?

(fgatsighahtaasaas)

[SerialClergyman]

Yeah, that was a theory that had worked for a while, but in this game and another one (retirement mafia? semioldguy's game..) it didn't, so I think I'll downgrade how much of a town tell it is.

I should have known it from that 'and what if starbuck is town' comment.. it was totally fishing for quotebait.

[SerialClergyman]

Oddly, what he has said for the entirety of the day has echoed my opinions almost exactly. Who we lynch isn't hugely important provided we know who we don't lynch the prob-towns. For whatever reason it really rings true to me. I'd still lynch him, but I'd prefer to knock off pug and CTD first (and then hopefully I won't have to.)

[SerialClergyman]

imprint farside, elvis

vote CTD

[SerialClergyman]

By the way, farside, if CTD is scum I'm totally using this as THE game to explain why town reads totally rock.

[SerialClergyman]

I thought it was weird that buttonman was suddenly becoming the lynch. This thought occured to me despite me being happy to lynch him.

Look, no point getting all churned up about me being scum or CTD, if you're worried about it lynch me right now, I don't mind. Force of numbers will win this game.

[SerialClergyman]

Also -

I thought SC saying lynch me and if I flip scum lynch EK. Could be scum trying to get rid of a player that they know town.

lol

[SerialClergyman]

See this is why I believe EK town. Pro and con's all valid points.

Epic facepalm. Tempted to pull up 1000000 examples of you telling me what a shit dude I am for doing this all game.

[SerialClergyman]

Hey - we can all agree that at least one of me and elvis isn't scum now! Woot. Ten points for whoever suggested that we as scum imprinted each other and tried to clear each other.

I think this analysis is pretty unnecessary. My scummiest actions have been

a) pairing DN with Starbuck so strongly. (was wrong - would hope it was obvious I believed it)
b) Not voting VMD and defending her before she was lynched. (was wrong, have amended offending towntell. Still, I did attack her at times during the game and I think brought up a powerful argument against her at one point. Also - I was voting CTD instead of her during her wagon, I'd lol if I moved off one scum onto another scum).
c)

quickhammering deathnote

if you read my analysis of the imprint wagon at the time you'll see much of it ringing true, and as elvis points out, I robbed VMD (and CTD) of a near-certain imprint. Also hammered scum, but that's less indicative.

If you think that's scummy enough to put me ahead of CTD, lynch me. Otherwise lets lynch him and bathe in his blood.

[SerialClergyman]

elvis - I'm glad that you and farside agree on something, however. Convince each other you're town and we can get this party started.

But it's not the town read, it's stating a town read publicly that earlier in the game you were prepared to rip out my spleen through my mouth and eat it in front of me for doing.

[SerialClergyman]

While searching around for bitchy quotes, I came upon this post from KoC.

Gogo townSC points.

[SerialClergyman]

yeah, yeah, I can never be trusted now... I think I used all of my trumps in that game. I'll never be obvtown again.

Actually, the game i played as scum with iamusername I made the poor man write out a 6 page perfect case against my partner and a townie then got the townie lynched in lylo for a perfect scum game.. I felt so sorry for him as he was making the case.. it really was brilliant, just had one wrong fork in the road along the way. Now he only plays with me when he's modding (I kid, I kid..)

What did you mean by our game with 'MM'? Who or what is MM?

[SerialClergyman]

yeah, I knew the game you were talking about, I just didn't know specifically what MM is.

[SerialClergyman]

By the way, if you ever want to teach your son grammar, DO NOT USE THIS SENTENCE:

Then after thinking about a game we were in and after with the game you and I were I I thought (still sort see it) as you scum in this game.

(Is jealous of your cute son. I'm very white and my 3-year live-with girlfriend is very Chinese so my kid won't even look like me! ><)

[SerialClergyman]

Oh, I didn't know, and I thought I would have read enough from you to work it out!

That's true, but generations of Chinese vs my crappy English/Polish genes isn't going to be much of a matchup. It's all good, I've seen stacks of cute attractive Eurasian people, it's just looking at MY child with ASIAN features that is going to feel kind of weird, I think. You know? (also I'm blonde so that's out the window )

[SerialClergyman]

To back up my rhetoric, here's what I wrote about those initial imprints at the end of D1 before I quickhammered.

@ buttonman thank you for answering. we as a group do indeed need to have the right to ask questions, and often explaining their motivation fully may cancel out the reason for asking them. If I said 'why do you support a lynch of person A' and when asked why replied 'because you never supported a lynch of person A and I want to try and trip you up' the question isn't going to work.

As it was, this is a question designed to get you and the group thinking about who is voting to imprint you and why. If you think there are likely to be no scum on your imprint list, as well as you not being scum yourself, you suddenly have 6 people of which 4 are scum. It's possible, but unlikely.

Also, DeathNote is imprinting all of you. This is surely somewhat suspicious given apparantly everyone now seems in the mood to lynch him. Why did you think 0 scum on your imprint list was an option when your biggest suspect was on there? Are you reasonably happy thinking that if he's scum the other 4 are town?

In all - Ohio (5) - Nevada, Florida, Arizona, Ohio, Colorado
Colorado (5) - Nevada, Ohio, Colorado, Iowa, Florida
Hawaii (5) - Nevada, Arizona, Kansas, Colorado, Hawaii

Deathnote, Starbuck, Limerick, Vala Del M, Messiah, XRECX farside and Buttonman are the unique individual members who are voting to imprint these three people.

Plum, Serial, elvis and Pug are not on this list.

I know for sure that there is scum on this list because I know my alignment, but surely most of you can see that with that many unique people there's almost certainly a heavy scum presence.

For me, I'll add to that that the four people off the wagon are perhaps the four people that I have the largest town read on.

Add to THAT the fact that the FIRST THREE PEOPLE on the DeathNote wagon are Plum, elvis and Pug. I would be on that list too were it not for the fact that I am voting Starbuck.

So of the people who found and started pushing the wagon that we all now think is scummy and have all jumped on, NONE of them are imprinting ANY of the 3 major imprint candidates.

There is definitely scum amongst those three, possibly 2/3 of them. I remain heavily not in favour of an imprint.

[SerialClergyman]

CTD, seeing as how you're saying you're town, since we CAN'T LOSE THIS GAME UNLESS EK OR FARSIDE ARE SCUM, why aren't you just letting yourself get lynched since it's going to happen anyway? Then if you flip town we can lynch SC tomorrow. BECAUSE SCUM DON'T HAVE POWAHZ

Oh wait that's right you aren't town and you're scum fighting for his life lol

thisthisthisthisthis.

I honestly don't understand the holdup here, elvis. Unless you have doubts about farside, get your lynch on.

This argument of I don't want to be lynched as town for some sort of honour reason is rubbish.

I'm not putting this much effort into a game I know I can't win. Look at SC, Pulindar and Reck and compare them to yourself, Elvis and myself. They've all been on auto-pilot for a good while. Two of them are lazy,

one of them is scum who stopped trying.

If that were true, which it's not, farside at least should know that I'm not exactly the sort to give up in a difficult situation as scum.

[SerialClergyman]

arg, unvote?

zz

Wake me up on lynch

[SerialClergyman]

In the last couple of pages he's tried to look for an opening on a few different people.
Pul's, Reck's and my reaction have all been the same today and yesterday - it doesn't really matter who we lynch, lets just cycle through them, obviously prefer it isn't self, but not too fussed etc etc.

CTD is strongly fighting against his lynch despite knowing that if he dies and flips town, his strongest suspect would be next on the chopping block. And he apparantly isn't challenging farside or elvis (yet) so why does he care? The best explanation he has is because of some kind of desire to not be lynched for pride reasons or similar. What crap.

The same argument that he raised saying 'I wouldn't put this much effort into a game I'm about to lose' could also be restated as 'why would you put this much effort into avoiding a lynch when we have 1 scum and 2 obvtowns?'

[SerialClergyman]

Showing CTD isn't Serial focused and instead is looking for anyone else to lynch, on page 92 alone:

As an excercise, read back on the last couple of days and look for instances where a player tried to cast doubt on Elvis or farside, one of which the scum in all likelyhood need to get rid of if they want any hope of winning this game. And yes, I'm thinking more of Pulindar than SC here. That's the kind of behavior you'd expect from scum in this situation, aside from simply not trying anymore.

(clearly not referring to me.)

've been ignoring Reck for a while now, but this is getting ridiculous. The only hope any non-farside, non-Elvis scum has of winning this game is getting imprinted. There is no reason for any non-Elvis, non farside townie to want to be imprinted, unless they had serious doubts about one of those two.

So Reck, for a couple of days now, has done nothing but suggest the scummiest thing imanigable at this point in the game, and he really ought to be shut up.

[SerialClergyman]

Could it be... is the game over...?

[SerialClergyman]

Zzz

[SerialClergyman]

I have farside-esque paranoia at the moment. I was pretty certain about ctd.

But I think the vig imprints might have tied my hands from suggesting anything outlandish. In that it doesn't matter who is the last of us to be lynched any more.

Will type more when I hve a pc.

[SerialClergyman]

Ok, so my reasoning for the above post is as follows:

I will definitely not live in lylo. If nothing else, farside is likely to be there and she played a long intricate game where I was scum and I know that she has a great respect for what I can do as scum. While that's nice on a personal level, it means that most of the pro-town actions I've made this game I could well have made as scum, and she knows it.

Aside from that, I've done too much that's dodgy. Not voting for KoC and voting for CTD, who I've been pushign all game, was pretty much the tipping point of the evidence against me, I think.

Don't get me wrong, i think there's more than enough there to see me as town, but if we're wrong about farside and elvis, it could be down to a 3 man lylo, and in that case I would be killed and we would lose.

So I was thinking perhaps I should step up and get it over with now so that if it came down to Pul, elvis and farside (for example, insert Reck if you like) there would be a real debate and we'd be more likely to make the right choice if the scum was either farside or elvis.

However, they've both just recieved a vig. This makes all of this reasoning irrelevent, because if the scum does lie between them then there won't be a 3-man lylo, there will be a 4-man lylo that we don't realise is lylo. And of course it won't matter if i die now, or later, or get shot.

I might just do a bit more reading and try to double check my reads on farside and elvis but I anticipate a Reck vote coming up.

[SerialClergyman]

I wouldn't expect thsi from VMD if elvis was scum.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 69#2003569
or this from pug:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 34#2003734
possible elvis-is-town slip?
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 78#2004178
Deathnote unimprints elvis after she tries to clear me:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 55#2005055

This seems unlikely to be faked on farside
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 60#2017660

A bit of self-defense:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 45#2019545

Hmm this is a little scary about elvis:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=175


That's abotu it from VMD. I have to do actual work now. Zzz.

[SerialClergyman]

I thought about this game while I lied in bed last night. Things I remembered. I decided to do a pro/con list for the 3 players I believe could be scum.
There is a reason I thought in my head SC could be town but I need to read everyone.
SC: I have one question for you. Why have you been really quiet these past few days as far as pushing for people like you did in the beginning?

Main reason is lack of time. I have been running 5-6 games for 6 months and since the winter olympics my workload has increased dramatically and I have much less time for mafia. You can tell from my posts on site and games I'm participating in, if you like.

I have to admit, there was also laziness in that I was pretty happy with farside and elvis, and pretty confident we'd just knock out the scum, but ctd flipping town has just caused me to doubt myself a little.

[SerialClergyman]

These arguments are always less good coming from the person in question, but I'll point it out anyway -

if you remember our last game when I was scum, I was also very keen to declare people town. But I also had a very clear path to victory. I don't know if you read the scum QT, but we spelt out exactly who would be lynched and when, and that essentially allowed us to go to town declaring abr, you, scigatt, ojanen, ellibereth dla etc etc all town. I don't feel like I'm the sort of player to put myself behind the 8-ball that carelessly, I think I'd have a plan. The plan could be me doing this in some crazy WIFOM gambit, sure, but I think it's fair to say I wouldn't just leave myself stranded accidentally.

I forgot to mention above that this is the last game i"m active in with no plans to start any other one. It's been my only game for about 2 or 3 weeks now. So that's a tangible indication of my limited time, I suppose.

[SerialClergyman]

Sure farside, I'm just saying you've seen me do the 'declare people town thing' and you saw I was careful about not painting myself into a corner.

As for giving up, you know that's not my thang. CSL self vote at L-1?

Either way, I suspect this is moot. I don't think it's worth challenging elvis/farside town now they are both imprinted, so I'll go along with whoever you guys choose. Reck seems most likely. Limerick gets points if so, he picked pug/reck scumteam ages ago.

[SerialClergyman]

elvis - while I've been going on about it a bit, you weren't in the game I'm referring to, which is the primary reason why farside will never trust me again (except perhaps out of game - that doesn't make your butt look big, promise! )

But I take your point and agree it's not worth it. If I was ever going to do something outlandish it would be to sac myself while warning of the dangers of complacency. I could understand leaving one of me, reck and pul alive to think about turning, but not 2 (which is what it would have to be now you both ahve vigs in your imprint past.)

So I'm on board with farside + elvis. All the way home, kids. Nautious buddying ftw, hopefully.

[SerialClergyman]

To be honest, I'd feel the same way about both of you except I feel a duty to be ever vigilant. If I'm going to cop the blame, I deserve the credit if you guys are actually town (I'm going to need it with my scumreads )

So where do you kids want my vote?

(Elvis - my scum record isn't perfect and my wiki is out of date )

[SerialClergyman]

What I don't understand, is why are you even hesitating if you're sure about elvis?

[SerialClergyman]

vote reck

[SerialClergyman]

well, I'm getting seirously antsy.

zz

I thought maybe we could imprint farside and elvis until they get a vig, then they can vig whoever they want when they do get it and that way we'll get a 3 man lylo.

Thoughts?

[SerialClergyman]

Either way, if farside or elvis town get a vig, use it tonight.

imprint elvis and farside

[SerialClergyman]

The reason I'm suggesting this, and listen up becausei t matters if you're town Pul, is that if we imprint elvis and farside and no lynch until they get a vig, then they can shoot at night.

At the moment, if one of them is scum and we lynch 1 person, then the other will shoot at night (they are both imprinted with vigs) and it will be gg.

Of course, I'm not sure what a lylo with me/Pul elvis and farside would look like (actually, I'm pretty sure) so it might be a bit of a waste of time but no downside etc.

[SerialClergyman]

Sorry, didn't explain that so well.


Assume elvis or farside is scum:
At the moment, lynch SC and scum shoots town at night, that's the end of the game

imprint and no lynch, then whoever gets vig shoots SC at night. Then tomorrow it's 3 man lylo between elvis, farside and Pul.

[SerialClergyman]

elvis - say farside is scum.

If we lynch Pul, he dies and it goes to night and farside kills you. Then farside and I are left and it's a scum win.

If we nolynch and vig pul, then the scum can't kill anyone and we'll have a 3-man lylo. So we can at least talk about it and make a decision.

If one of EK/SC is scum I'm going to literally scream especially after everything said on day one.

About a trillion times this.

[SerialClergyman]

and yeah, it's just because there's no down side. I don't think it'll change much, but you know, no reason not to.

are you guys both imprinted? If so I'll no lynch hammer.

[SerialClergyman]

m'okay.

[SerialClergyman]

iamausername, if you confirm they are imprinted I'm hammering the no lynch. If you want, you can take this as my intention to vote.

[SerialClergyman]

Sorry to all for making it no lynch and drag on etc etc. It's one of those things - if I'vep layed a game for months and months I might as well take an extra day or two to do the sensible thing and cover every base. It must have been frustrating.

A few surprises for me this game.. the town managed to mostly imprint town.. I don't know whether the 'executive decision' was worth it - I think the game would have been much different if VMD had been imprinted, but it also would have been much different if I hadn't copped the suspicion from quickhammering. Hard to say. I'm glad that scum didn't ever get an imprint, I think our lives would have been made much harder if they did. Jury still out there.

I would do the buddying that made everyone nauseous again. I have no idea why there was such a negative reaction to that read and the play. It was one of, if not THE, the major factor in winning the game for town. Town reads win games. As Socrates said, they doubly do so when there are no NKs. As soon as farside and elvis were happy with each other itm eant scum had to have two alive.

I think the scum did well in not really getting picked off very well. Pug, KoC and Deathnote all got lynched as kindo f the default lynch of the day, I think, there wasn't too many blinding moments of insight from the town. But possibly that was a side effect of the fact that the scum really weren't working together much due to the inactivity and everything. I think there's a tradeoff between doing things as a team that benefit your team, and splitting up and not being obviously connected, and scum were (not necessarily by choice) WAY down at the 'split up' area of the tradeoff, and given how imprints worked and the lack of night kill, this wasn't a good point for them to be.

I'm probably most disappointed that I didn't get VMD scum. That question about what happened to her if Starbuck scum was so against the grain of town thought - almost all of those 'change your mind vote starbuck' players were town, and that's exactly what town should have been thinking, from their limited information and my confidence in my read.

Anyways, I had a lot of fun, when there wasn't crazy drama and when I had time to post up a storm. Quickhammering was great fun, I recommend it to you guys in future

Congrats farside and elvis for controlling the town nicely and using your positions well. I was shuddering at the propect of having to convince elvis to vote against farside if it came down to an SC-elvis-farside lylo. (I was 1000000% positive elvis wasn't scum, and I knew out of the two of them I only had a chance of convincing her anyway.) I'm glad I don't have to.

Sorry for being wrong, townies I helped lynch.

Thanks iamausename for your excellent modding as always.

Good game.

[SerialClergyman]

farside - I think we were quite lucky we had the other game come and go while this one was going on. I think it gave us a much more detailed view on each other that diffused a lot of potential conflicts, suspicions and issues between us.

[SerialClergyman]

I stated many times in thread that I would never have voted farside in lylo, but I was mostly saying that because I didn't want to rock the boat.

I had my suspicions. In your position I'd have said the same thing to try to force scumSC down a crazier path to victory.

I felt like in lylo I had a shot of convincing you, and I had done enough stuff that was bizarre from a scum POV. But it still would have been some battle, I think.

[SerialClergyman]

We didn't come into the game with it, we've played another game where elvis was scum and there was no buddying. I just happened to think she was town this particular game and vice versa, for reasons that were stated repeatedly. I still have no time for complaints about that, and the vitriol about it was ridiculous.

Plus this game was won off of town reads, not scum reads. Despite getting people pissed off (unreasonably) and attracting a lot of suspicion, it's no accident that farside, elvis and SC were the three left standing. Town on town relationships are important.

As for being away on leave and having that taken advantage of - obviously it must have been tough to have a relative pass away but to be angry at people who get you killed is not appropriate at all. People get NKed, mislynched, unfairly targetted, badly read - all these things happen. Sometimes it's irritating when you're killed or lynched early but that's just the nature of the game, and provided the people doing the killing are doing it to fulfil their win condition then getting angry at them is utterly unreasonable.

[SerialClergyman]

Honestly Starbuck, you have found drama where no drama need exist. My last comments weren't intended to be rude, and every bit of my play was in the spirit of the game.

I'm not checking player lists, if you have some aversion to playing with me for whatever reason then you're welcome to do whatever you need to to deal with that.