Mini #893 - Dollhouse Mafia (Game Over!)
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Limerickx Goon
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I just read everything.
I was down for the 'imprint everyone' idea until I heard the fact that Rogues don't have a night kill ability, unless imprinted with it.
I was wondering if this seemed like a good strat for Day 1.
Imprint 1 person, then vote for no lynch.
As far as I can tell, we have no way of knowing what the imprint will give the user. If we imprint one person, take it to night, we can find out if the imprint gives a normal power-role type power or not. We won't have to worry about a townie dying during the night, becuase scum can't kill, and if a kill DOES happen, it could only be from the one person imprinted. We might get lucky and get a power that can be of a big bonus during the night. If it turns out to be useless, whats the problem?
The next day, we could do the same thing, only imprint a new person. We'd be able to see if the power was the same, if it was useful, etc.
The only downside is that we might accidentally pick scum and they'd keep the power. But if the power allows a kill, and a kill goes off at night, we'd know who was responsible. If we gave out one power a day, we'd have a list of possible scum: those players who at one point we given a imprint.
Does this seem reasonable? Am I missing something really obvious?-
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Limerickx Goon
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I think the thing I prefer about my plan would that it would be a lot easier to keep tabs on the players who received imprints in the past. At any point in time when a townie was killed, you'd be able to look at a list of possible suspects, narrowed down to players who had received an imprint in the past.-
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Limerickx Goon
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But not just an investigative role. It would also help to get information about how the game is set up. What goes on 'behind the scenes.'
There are obviously things we dont know in regards to what sort of roles will be given out. This is just a way to gain information, what possible roles can be given out?
Its just a thought, and there are downsides, we could, of course, give scum a power on accident, but the plus is that the longer we keep a handle on who were given powers, and what powers they were, the easier it will be to narrow down possibilities when a kill is made, and keeping things clear and organized would be a huge bonus to townies in catching scum in lies.-
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Limerickx Goon
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Limerickx Goon
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VMD makes a good point, which in hindsight makes perfect sense.
While I don't think the dice roll is as terrible an idea as Messiah thinks, I agree that dice rolling would take away a lot of information, which is kinda the entire point.
The scum wouldn't use the NK even if they got it, they'd just be lynched the next day as a result. Also, it would be vote to implant, then vote to no-lynch. If we gave a NK to a scum during the night, they'd never use it, they'd just get lynched the next day. That would be stupid.TheButtonmen wrote: Problem with that is the town-scum ratio, with 8-4 if we mislynch today then give the scum a NK we start day two with 6 town and 4 scum.
That assumes you know what the possible powers are. I don't recall it being mentioned anywhere what the possible imprints are.TheButtonmen wrote: Basically theres a whole lot a scum and not that many town, thus voting is tilted in scum favour, so by randomizing we remove that. Now if we randomly chose a player day 1 and repeatedly imprint them and vote NL until they find scum we have a 66% of winning right now and honestly with a 2-1 town to scum ratio that's a hell of a lot better win % then playing the game straight up.
I can see the arguement for both sides of a diceroll/vote, and its a matter of risk/reward. By voting, you get the risk of mafia working together to get the vote on them, but the reward of more information.
Dice roll you reduce the risk of picking a mafia, but reduce the information gained as a reward as a result. At the moment, I'd be more in favor of a vote, but I can see the merit of the dice-roll.-
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Limerickx Goon
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Imprint: Vala Mal Doran
Imprint: Limerickx
Got some catchup reading to do, it seems.
I still disagree with lynching today, as scum don't have a NK unless we give one out. I just don't see a reason to take the chance when there wont be a kill (and if there IS a kill, it would be from one of the players we give and imprint to)-
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Limerickx Goon
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Generally, I get the most 'non-scum' vibe from you. You're asking questions which I feel open up discussions which have a good chance of tripping up players later. Truthfully, I just get a 'vanilla' vibe off of you, and I'd rather have people I feel are less likely to be scum have as many votes to imprint as possible.Vala Mal Doran wrote:Lim, I'm flattered by you voting to imprint me and all, but I question you voting to imprint yourself. I have had a town read on you, but I had a town read on elvis too, prior to her so eagerly voting to imprint herself. I am of the opinion that no one should vote to imprint themselves.
Not to make you second-guess yourself, but why do you think I am worthy of being imprinted? What makes you so sure I'm town?
That being said, along with the vote on me, as I am still in favor of moving slower, at least at first until we get a little more information regarding the possible powers the imprints give, I will remove/move my votes to ensure its easy to keep track moving forward of who had imprints.
I don't think voting to imprint yourself is, in and of itself, scummy. It takes 7 people to vote to imprint, and truthfully, I trust myself being imprinted more than other people, since I know my role. Obviously people can't trust what I say based on me saying it, but since I personally know my role, I have a vested interest in being imprinted. Being imprinted is beneficial to every player, scum or vanilla, because if you are imprinted, it helps your role, and doesn't help your opposing role. I'd say its a null tell more than anything else, but I'm willing to listen to why I'm wrong. Maybe I'm missing something.-
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Limerickx Goon
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Just to clarify, I later agreed that the benefit for voting on who to get the imprints had a lot of positives. The things that are important to me, at least for day one, is that I don't see a reason to lynch, when the scum don't have a NK unless we give them one, so we don't have to lynch the first day. The other important thing to me is that we give out all imprints judiciously and in small amounts, so we can keep track of everyone who had them later on if people start getting NK'dStarbuck wrote: I am also not sure on Limerick's idea, just because it leaves too much open.
While the diceroll idea would be fair and random, it just leaves too much to chance and takes away any discussion we would be able to get.
The imprints are a subject all of their own. Will we know what imprint the person receives?Limerickx wrote:The scum wouldn't use the NK even if they got it, they'd just be lynched the next day as a result.
Limerick is seeming to allude in Post 43 that we will know. I'm not really comfortable with him making such an assumption. I'm not sure that the mod would give that much away.
I also never said that we/I know what the imprints will be, and I'm not sure where in post 43 I imply that we do. In fact, I specifically say
This seems to directly oppose your claim that I said that we'd know. What I DO know, is that anyone who is imprinted can tell everyone else what they were imprinted with. Thats how we can figure out a little more about what getting imprinted entails. Information from other players, not the mod.Limerickx wrote: That assumes you know what the possible powers are. I don't recall it being mentioned anywhere what the possible imprints are.
We can assume (I dont think this is a reach) is that it is possible to get an imprint that lets you kill someone. Otherwise, it would be impossible for mafia to NK someone. Other than that, I have no idea, but we can find out by any imprinted person telling everyone else after the night phase what they got. So to clarify, we'll have some idea of the imprints we can get, and what they do, because whoever is imprinted can tell everyone else the day after.-
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Limerickx Goon
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I understand that, and I don't think that people who want to lynch today are wrong for saying so, but I guess that I just feel, with scum 100% not having a kill as of this very moment, tomorrow is just sort of an extension of today. If we imprint and don't lynch, today+tomorrow is basically one long day in my eyes, only with the added information that comes from knowing what sort of imprints are out there, and anything else we might learn from what is revealed during the night phase. Maybe there are mechanics we don't know about. For example, being FORCED to use the imprints you get would fit with the premise of the show.Pug89 wrote:
I think this may have been addressed but lynching will give us more information than not. If we limit the players given imprints that will give us a relatively small pool of possible players responsible. There is the possibility of scum getting a NK ability and waiting to use it on a night they are not imprinted, but unless everyone as been imprinted at one time or another they are still taking a huge risk.limerickx wrote:I still disagree with lynching today, as scum don't have a NK unless we give one out. I just don't see a reason to take the chance when there wont be a kill (and if there IS a kill, it would be from one of the players we give and imprint to)
So while I prefer to not lynch today, I understand the reasons for wanting to do so, and I would most likely be fully behind lynching tomorrow, when there is at least the possibility that a mafia was imprinted with a NK. Maybe I'd also change my mind for today if I felt very strongly about someone being super-scummy. I just don't at the moment.-
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Limerickx Goon
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Sorry for my inactivity as well. I tried to make a 'longer post coming soon!' type deal earlier, but it appears it did not go through from my phone.
Anyways:
After reading through, I think I am down for a 2 imprint/1 lynch setup. 2 is small enough that we can keep tabs on everyone, and as for the lynch, eh, I could go either way, and since it seems like that is the likely outcome....
I'd also like to note that I haven't done enough scumhunting, and focused too much on the overall strategy, but hopefully I can dig a little deeper in this post anyways.
SC: I think I had a more townie reading on him for the first part of the game. Moreso than most other players, anyways. I think he was honest in his defense of the arguements brought up against him. Then he started busting out the whole 'lynch DN, imprint me' plan and I just got confused. I don't know what he was trying to accompolish, and I don't think it helps the town. There is no way he can KNOW DN is scum (though I am inclined to be most suspicious of DN as well.) Along with the fact that if we were to vote him off the next day, it would imply we believe he was scum, so why would we believe what he said about his imprint? I don't see why we should imprint people unless we feel they are the most likely to be town, and putting a silly plan in place to disrupt that seems unhelpful. He has strongly been defending E_K, who I have a town read on as well. Finally, he says he is unsupportive of imprints. Again, I feel that a limited amount of imprints are in the towns best interest, as long as they are kept to a minimum. SC comes off looking a little scummy in my eyes.
Starbuck: I don't have a solid read at the momebnt. Where SC had a big problem with her defending DN when she also admitted to having a null read on him, I didn't agree. I don't see a problem with defending someone when you feel the arguements being used against them are shoddy, regardless of your personal read on them is. Truthfully, not much of a read on her, though maybe after thinking, it increases my suspicion on SC a little.
Messiah: Out of everyone, I get the strongest town vibe from him. In my reread, whenever I found myself thinking of soemthing, 9 times out of 10 Messiah asked the question in his next post.
Plum: Maybe I'm biased because she and I seem to share a lot in common regarding the basic way we should play out the early stages of the game. Hard to tell really, only a few posts, but when they come, they are big. (don't say it.....too easy......)
Buttonman: Yes the 'try and break the game' subtopic went on a bit, but I feel his heart was in the right place. Another player I find myself agreeing with a lot as I read his posts. I'm leaning townie.
Lew -> xReckx: Generally got a townie vibe from Lew before he left. xReckx joins and sums up. Disagrees with me on some points, but generally suspects the same people. I feel like I'm should really have a more solid stance on him one way or another, but I admit i don't, other than the fact that we have similar feelings on many people. Oh, and to answer this question:
I mentioned elsewhere that seeing as it is guaranteed that the mafia don't have a NK (unless we hand one to them) I felt that if there was no lynch, today+tomorrow would kind of be like one extended day, with the benefit from any imprint imformation we could get. Since then, I've been mostly convinced to the benefit of lynching regardless, because of the EXTRA informational benefit. Again, sorry to get to this question so late.xRECKONERx wrote:Limerickx is opposed to lynching today... I don't understand why. We have a free random lynch to use WITHOUT the guarantee of another townie dying during the night.
Farside: I admit I couldn't read his uber-long post. My eyes started hurting. At this point, I think another reread will be required tomorrow. Lets leave it at null for now.
In fact, I'll wrap up my thoughts on the rest and expand on it tomrorow
Pug: At first town, but shifted to null.
DN: Scum, offered bad ideas at the start, like, crazy-times. Imprint all, imprint none, its impossible to find scum because everyone could be doing a real great job, only a cop would be beneficial (and awful reasons why this is the case.)
VMD: Generally town, hasn't waivered too much
E_K: I actually think E_K is less scummy than most other people. Still undecided.
Sorry for sputtering out of gas there at the end, I'll try to basically finish up the last few people tomorrow, as well as ask some questions.
NOTE: (Shoot, lots of posts while I typed this) To answer the question about how many to imprint, I'd say imprint 2. I'm comfortable with the reasoning to lynch someone.
That being said:
Imprint: Messiah
Vote: Death Note
Currently I have votes on more than 2 people, but thats simply to keep imprint votes on the players I think are most likely town. My desire to keep imprints limited will, of course, trump my reads when imprints start going down.-
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Limerickx Goon
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Limerickx Goon
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E_K, if that first part (asking him to answer first) was directed at my last post, I would have been happy to answer the question had SC directed it towards me. He specifically directed it towards Button, so I assume he did so with a purpose. I am just interested what he personally thinks about the matter himself.-
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Limerickx Goon
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Im never I agree with Button not answering, and I never demanded SC answer his own question first, and Im not sure why you think that was my intent. My only point was that I am curious as to what SC thinks about the his own question. He doesn't have to answer the question before Button if he is looking for a certain response from Button first, but Im making it known, in advance, that Id like to know what sort of answer he was looking for, and why he feels that way himself. Is that unreasonable?-
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Limerickx Goon
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Sorry for not being clearer. I think Button should answer, as I don't think the question is particularly pointed. I don't get the reluctance to answer.
I would also like to know SCs opinion, what is he looking for? Truthfully, I wouldn't mind hearing other players opinions, but since SC brought it up, and I get the feeling he has his own opinion on the matter set, Id like to know what he thinks.
Also, EK, im sure you've already mentioned it and i just missed it on my reread, but where does your mind boggle-ness regarding Messiah come from\is laid out?-
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Limerickx Goon
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Limerickx Goon
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but is this right? If scum only bus 1 out of 4, that ONLY means it's a 75% chance that scum are not bussing one of their own, right? I understand that it means that (if your 1/4 number is right) 75% of the time you might predict that it is a TOWNIE pushing hard, for SOMEONE, but you're assuming that the target is mafia. Or are you saying that a single mafia also presses hard for a lynch AT ALL 1 out of 4 times, regardless of their target? I'm just a little confused about the logic here, but maybe I'm just misunderstanding the flow of what you're trying to say.SerialClergyman wrote:This game is certainly unusual.
Nope, that's not even close. I know I can explain this. Say scum bus their partners roughly 1/4 of the time on D1. I think this is high, but I'm making a point. So one out of every four times the scumbag will bus, 3 out of every 4 times they will not.
That means that purely statistically, the liklihood of someone pressing hard for a scum lynch D1 is 75%. This does not clear them (and will never clear them totally) but IT DOES MAKE IT SIGNIFICANTLY MORE LIKELY that this person is town.
Of course the chances that of the 4 people not voting for the top 3, all of them being mafia is almost zero. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if one of those top three are mafia. But the fact remains (for me) that when it comes down to placing my votes, I put them on the people I felt were most likely town. Two of them are up there. I am aware that statistically there is an extremely high chance that there is at least one mafia voting along with me, and also a good chance that at least one of the top 3 are scum (mafia voting bloc and such,) but when it comes down to it, I would feel uncomfortable moving my vote to someone that I feel is LESS townie just to satisfy that particular statistical likelihood. This though also goes hand in hand with my desire to imprint only a few people. Being aware that it is statistically likely mafia are voting for people I am, and being unaware of if it is because they want to fit in or if it is because the top three have mafia in it, keeping the number if imprints low becomes sort of a safeguard which allows me to keep my imprint votes on those I feel best about. I already said that for me personally, I'm willing to move my votes off WHOEVER I might have them on (myself excluded) to ensure that the number of imprints remain low.SerialClergyman wrote:In all - Ohio (5) - Nevada, Florida, Arizona, Ohio, Colorado
Colorado (5) - Nevada, Ohio, Colorado, Iowa, Florida
Hawaii (5) - Nevada, Arizona, Kansas, Colorado, Hawaii
Deathnote, Starbuck, Limerick, Vala Del M, Messiah, XRECX farside and Buttonman are the unique individual members who are voting to imprint these three people.
Plum, Serial, elvis and Pug are not on this list.
I know for sure that there is scum on this list because I know my alignment, but surely most of you can see that with that many unique people there's almost certainly a heavy scum presence.
Pug isn't voting to imprint ANYONESerialClergyman wrote: Add to THAT the fact that the FIRST THREE PEOPLE on the DeathNote wagon are Plum, elvis and Pug. I would be on that list too were it not for the fact that I am voting Starbuck
So of the people who found and started pushing the wagon that we all now think is scummy and have all jumped on, NONE of them are imprinting ANY of the 3 major imprint candidates
There is definitely scum amongst those three, possibly 2/3 of them. I remain heavily not in favour of an imprint.
Plum is only voting to imprint herself
Elvis is voting herself, and you. (Since this post she voted pug and plum, but at the time of this post, that wasn't the case)
As much as this is a very interesting point, it isn't like the first people on the DN train were voting for OTHER people who are 'better' options. Those three people had a total of three votes AT ALL for imprinting.
Personally, I wouldn't mind having a vote on Pug. Plum I am am neutral on, and Elvis I pretty much don't trust myself to be sure on way or another.-
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Limerickx Goon
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Limerickx Goon
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Limerickx Goon
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Limerickx Goon
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As an aside, I still don't see this as a 'me myself and I' type thing. It is in your benefit that whoever if imprinted is on your side. Regardless of anyone else, you know YOUR role. If you're town, you want a town to be imprinted. you KNOW you're a town. If you're scum, you want scum to get an imprint.farside22 wrote: I haven't self imprinted. You know why? I don't see it as a point right now. I know my role and I want to look for scum the best way I can right now and not worry about just me, myself and I.
Truthfully, I think NOT voting to give yourself an imprint is more scummy that voting to give yourself an imprint, if anything. I don't read into it at all, really, but if I had to pick one over the other, its not as big a deal to mafia which mafia get the imprint, as long as ONE of them do. The only way for a townie (at this point) to be 100% sure a townie gets an imprint is to imprint themselves.[/quote]-
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Limerickx Goon
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Another thing to mention SC, is there are two outcomes (taking a very broad view), a good outcome, and a bad outcome. There are two methods to try to achieve your goals, good ones, and bad. Just because we had a good outcome on night one, DOESN'T mean that your method was right! Just as good methods can result in bad outcomes, bad methods can result in good, but that doesn't mean we should continue doing the same thing! Now, ill have to read todays actions, as the day happened in no time flat, but this was bugging me from the first night, when you hammered when everyone else was talking about imprinting BEFORE the hammer. Yet you think you're some hero for hammering, and that because DN was mafia (Which most people were on board with anyways) that your logic works! Bad method, good result.-
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Limerickx Goon
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I deleted stuff not related to me, hope thats alrightSerialClergyman wrote:Florida was on the Deathnote wagon but not the Starbuck wagon.
Montana was on the Deathnote wagon but not the Starbuck wagon.
Kansas was on the Starbuck wagon but not the Deathnote wagon.
Ohio was on neither
Hawaii was on neither
I think Limerickx's spot is the most suspicious. Second last on the Deathnote wagon and not voting on D2.
So, I am MOST suspicious as of that post, because I voted for scum and didn't vote for townie? If you want to say it was suspicious of me to be the second to last on DN, thats fine, but how was the fact that I wasn't on a vote for Starbuck, one that you initiated and rammed through instantly, make me suspicious? That lynch came and went before I even had a chance to read anything after the first lynch! Another example of the insane way your 'logic' works.
You said I defended a no-lynch day one, which would've resulted in not lynching the scum. I was in favor of a no-lynch early on in the day, and then, after hearing conversation about it, understood the benefit. As early as post 230 I said I understood the reasoning behind a lynch. I was still in favor of a no lynch, but I wasn't LOBBYING for a no lynch or anything.elvis_knits wrote:limerick mostly for his placement on the DN wagon and how he wanted to no-lynch and imprint the first day, which would have no-lynched instead of lynching scum. He just seemed to show up in a lot of the groupings I made of possible scum. However, I'm slightly conflicted on him because he seemed honest and conservative in his approach. I think we need ot hear more from him to be sure.
Again, I voted for DN, and if you want to point out my place in line, thats fine, I understand I was second to last on that lynch. I wasn't on the vote for Starbuck, however, who I didn't find scummy, even IF your boy didnt ram a Starbuck lynch so fast. As far as my voting pattern goes, I voted for the scum who was lynched (late, yes), and didn't for the townie that was. Sneaky possible motives aside, aren't YOU the one that preaches 'lynch people who look like scum, lynch people who protect scum?' Where did I protect scum? I was personally in favor of a no-lynch night one early on, but that wasn't when people were stacking votes on DN, and regardless of placement, I DID vote for him. I don't see my voting pattern either 'looking like scum,' or 'defending scum.'
Imprint Limerickx
Imprint TheButtonmen
Best to imprint yourself, you are the only person you are 100% sure about. I think Buttonmen is the safest best to be town.
Vote: SerialClergyman
Seriously, your logic has been ALL OVER the place this game, from the possibility of imprinting everyone, to it being horrible to imprint ANYONE, it being ok to imprint only at 'x' time, blah blah blah. You talk about my place in voting DN because I was second to last on DN when you came in even later than me, hammering while everyone was discussion who/how many to imprint along with the lynch. You say it was suspicious of me to not vote on day 2, when you were too busy pushing through a lynch of SB in no time flat, who WAS town.
You've made logical arguements that would make a Logic 101 student's head spin, made crazy suggestions about how lynching someone DAY 1 should result in a line of lynchs 2 and 3 days, You ignore the fact that if we keep only 2 or so people imprinted, and there is an NK, the list of suspects is pretty small, to imply tha people who want to imprint only want to give power to the Mafia. Instead, you want to hold of imprinting while there is more townie/scum ratio, in favor of waiting until later on, when there is every chance that ratio is smaller?
As an aside, I'm curious if scum can get imprints that are NOT NK related. I might be missing this, but in the same sense that people for some reason think that all townie imprints are cop-related, why do we assume that all scum ones are NK related? Both are leaps of faith that I don't think are warranted. Can someone point to me if this has been talked about? There is every chance that I've missed it.[/quote]-
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Limerickx Goon
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Limerickx Goon
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So the fact that I didn't agree with you makes me look suspicious, even though I ended up being right? Ever consider that you were wrong, and people might disagree with you, have reasons, and end up being right?SerialClergyman wrote:
Yes. I think with most townies, the DeathNote flip was a pretty big factor in getting Starbuck lynched. I certainly felt they were heavily connected and pointed it out several times.Limerickx wrote:So, I am MOST suspicious as of that post, because I voted for scum and didn't vote for townie?
No. This is wrong. Please learn to logic. Just as townies can be suspicious of other townies and just end up being wrong, a townie can think a scum is good and end up being wrong. The WAY the defense is done is what is important. I didn't think Starbuck's defense of DN was a defense of "DN IS TOWN NOT MAFIA OMGWTFBBQ", I just felt she didn't like the logic being used in some cases against DN, and spoke on that specifically. I didn't get a scum read off Starbuck.SerialClergyman wrote: From a townie's point of view, if you were prepared to push DeathNote and be on his wagon but youweren'tprepared to be on the Starbuck wagon then there's some serious disconnect in the thinking.
Even though I ended up being right. Ok.......SerialClergyman wrote:Someone like Buttonmen doesn't come away looking as suspicious because he's always thought I was scummy and wanted nothing to do with the cases I was pushing. But someone who was behind the DeathNote lynch but not the Starbuck lynch seems odd to me.
SerialClergyman - (Saturday) wrote:I think Limerickx's spot is the most suspicious. Second last on the Deathnote wagon and not voting on D2.
The first quote was from yesterday, the second was today. Why did you suddenly change your mind on me? YESTERDAY I was super suspicious based on my voting pattern, but now I'm not because if my style? Could it be that because I voted for you, and pointed out your OWN voting pattern you'd rather back off calling me scummy? Now that you have three votes on you?SerialClergyman - (Sunday) wrote:Limerickx's style reads town to me and his V/LAs might account for some of what I noted. He also had some interactions with DeathNote early that read as town to me.
Related to this, can we also talk about how funny it is that you are NOW in favor of 2-3 imprint and a no lynch, now that you happen to have 3 votes to lynch you? The first night imprinting was such a bad idea, and lynching was good, so much so that you felt the need to hammer while everyone else was talking about imprinting, but now that you're in the hot seat, lets imprint and not lynch?-
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Limerickx Goon
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Reply to SC:
First of all, creating numbers to lay out my 'points' is misleading, dontcha think? Regardless of that fact, I'll answer in kind:
1a) Of course you would be in favor of imprinting with no lynch AFTER Starbuck flipped. If she was town, all the heat would be on you! What better way to try and stem that then say 'Lets imprint and not lynch guys,' right when a townie who was lynched based off your push flips town.SerialClergyman wrote:This happened before Starbuck's flip (clearly). If I was wrong about Starbuck, I was always in favour of turning to imprints.
1b)One of your entire arguments against imprinting night one was that the ratio was so high, yet you were so sure that both DN and Starbuck were scum. If that were the case, however, that would leave only 2 scum unaccounted for, and 10 townies! Even if you weren't 100% sure on starbuck, it would still be 3 to 9, but neither Starbuck nor DN were anywhere NEAR getting imprinted. So your top two suspects weren't close to getting imprints, so what was the problem with imprinting then, so much so that you had to hammer someone who wasn't close to being imprinted? You think voting for imprints when we have ideas who scum are is a worse idea then when we don't? Wouldn't we have a better chance of not giving imprints to scum when we have ideas of who they are? So now we were wrong about Starbuck. The trail (as laid out by you) is cold. Now is the PERFECT time to lay out the imprints! Sarcasm!SerialClergyman wrote:I was always in favour of turning to imprints. It was only when we had a good lead on scum that I thought imprinting was a bad idea.
2a) I'm willing to consider the fact that you were just laying out your thoughts one at a time, the first being my voting pattern is scummy (which again, compared to your own is CERTAINLY not more scummy) and that my posting habits are townie. Again, I'm willing to consider that is the truth, (though I can't say I agree with the logic, in fact, I'll say the opposite.)SerialClergyman wrote:I am conflicted about you. You remain the most suspicious spot on wagon analysis. Your play has been quite townie though. I'm in favour of listing thoughts as they come to me and being honest about my reads. So I don't think your town now nor did I think you were scum yesterday. I'm struggling to determine what your alignment is.
2b) So, as I said above, thats why you said that if Starbuck flipped town, we should imprint and not lynch. Starbuck flipping town brings lots of heat on you, good thing you suggested we imprint and not lynch in advance!SerialClergyman wrote:Were I scum, I'd have known that Starbuck's lynch would bring a metric shit-ton of suspicion on me, not to mention my various pleas to lynch me to prove my towniness.
This boggles my mind. Does anyone else agree with this? Maybe I'm missing something. If I was scummy sitting out, because I apparently could so easily, that would leave only TWO mafia to set up an 'easy to manufacture' lynch of Starbuck on day two, within 40 hours of the day starting, with 4 out of 8 townies also needing to get on board. Please, really? THAT makes the most sense? Also, how did DNs wagon 'spring up' any faster than Starbucks?SerialClergyman wrote:The problem comes about from the situation. There are 3 scum, they all know Starbuck is town and can daytalk. They are presented with an absolute gift, a townie pushing hard the lynch of another townie.
So the question one must attempt to answer is what they would do with themselves. A lynch of Starbuck (or even myself) would be easy to manufacture and they could essentially choose to be on it or not.
Deathnote's wagon was different, it really spring up. So yes, it's definitely odd to me that you would be on DN's wagon and not on SBs.
Is everyone who didn't vote for Starbuck suspicious because of that fact in your eyes? Are they REALLY more suspicious that people who actually voted for Starbuck?
Again, how can you really think my voting pattern is suspicious because I joined late on a mafia lynch, and wasn't on a townie lynch, when you were the LAST on a mafia lynch, hammering when we were discussing who should be imprinted, then was FIRST on, and pushed for a lynch on a townie, while saying that we should imprint and not lynch if Starbuck flips town on the wagon you started yourself? There is no way my voting pattern is more suspicious than yours.
Truthfully no, not that much, it happened rather fast. I only got to check in from my phone a few times.SerialClergyman wrote:Were you not around for much of D2?-
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Limerickx Goon
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Limerickx Goon
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Limerickx Goon
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Unlike you, I don't pretend to be SURE about my votes, my vote was on you because I felt you were most likely to be mafia.
Snarkyness aside, I switched my vote because I'm willing to go along with the no lynch/imprint plan. In fact, I was in favor of that plan numerous times thoughout the game (my 'extension of a day' idea)
Sidenote: 'Heart' is my preferred imprint state too :-p-
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Limerickx Goon
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Limerickx Goon
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Limerickx Goon
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Limerickx Goon
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Limerickx Goon
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Limerickx Goon
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Limerickx Goon
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So currently, only CTD and E_K don't have imprint votes out, and unless they both vote to imprint Pug, some moving of imprint votes will be in order.
Buttonmen, at the moment you only have one imprint vote out, on yourself. Seeing as one would assume that you being locked in for an imprint means people find you most town-ish, are you considering imprinting anywhere else?-
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Limerickx Goon
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Limerickx Goon
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I've been fairly clear that I am most suspicious of SC. I don't like the logic he uses....anywhere. I didn't like the hammer of DN when everyone else was talking about imprinting. 'Taking matters into your own hands' always puts me ill at ease. He led what I felt was a weak SB lynch in day 2. He pointed out other players poor voting records, when his was most suspicious of anyone else’s. He started favoring imprinting and not lynching only after SBs lynch, which would put him under the most suspicion.
I started with a town read on Messiah, but that decreased as the game went on. Since being replaced by CTD, I am feeling much better, and wonder if my increasing suspicion of Messiah was simply the result of Messiah being less and less involved, and maybe my initial read was correct.
Plum, I find hard to get a read on. Really long catch-up posts, lots of V/LA. I can admit when I just ::shrug:: at times. I DO note that she is not voting to imprint any of the top getters, for what it’s worth, and her only vote imprint vote other than the one for herself rests on Elvis, who, whatever your feeling are regarding her, I just don't think is one of the 'safer' picks. In other words, if Buttonmen turned out being scum, I'd be like "Really? Well, he fooled me." If Elvis turned out to be scum, would anyone be THAT surprised?
On that note: I've changed my mind on Elvis plenty during the game. Early on I thought she was town, and then scum, and now I have no idea. Her/SCs crazy buddying is just mystifying to me, and I think I just find myself not going along with a bunch of her reads, so I am inclined to consider her a little shady.
Buttonmen: I voted to imprint him, so that should be an indicator that I think he is town. Same reasons apply as to most people.
xReckx: I get a bad vibe off. I didn't get where he was going with Farside digging a hole for herself, He seems to be pushing hard for a Pug imprint (followed by relative silence from Pug, one of the reasons why I am reluctant to vote to imprint Pug)
In fact, I think this deserves a little more 'indepthness', which I'll do in a following post.
Farside: Fairly townish. Not comfortable enough to imprint
Pug: I was fairly townish, but the more I think about it, I'm not sure exactly why.
VMD: At one point, I was fairly sure she was townish (I believe she was my first imprint vote, if I remember correctly) As the game went on, I waivered more and more, and now would really like to hear from whoever imprints her to see what is up.
Full disclosure, these responses are pretty much all 'just how I'm feeling at the moment,' so if you want more detailed stuff on anyone, let me know.
Here would be my list (Least to most suspicious)
Good Guys:
Limerickx
TheButtonmen
Good'ish' Guys:
CrashTestDummy
Pug89
Farside22
::Shrug::
ValaMalDoran('s eventual replacement)
Plum
Bad'ish' Guys':
Elvis_Knits
xRECKONERx
Bad Guys:
SerialClergyman-
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Limerickx Goon
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Interesting xRECKONERx:
Post 779:
Again, I'm not sure what he meant by this. SC asked him shortly after.xRECKONERx wrote:Farside is digging herself a hole.
Post 802: Doesn't respond to request to clarify as to how Farside is digging herself into a hole, and asks people to start voting yay or nay to imprinting/nolynch.
Post 810:
Answering SCs question on how Farside is digging herself a hole. This doesn't seem to be an answer though does it? Basically, I still don't understand what xRECK saw, and this is almost like repeating himself using different words.xRECKONERx wrote:Farside, at first, didn't come off that scummy to me... but it seems the more she tries to defend herself, the more she digs her own grave. It's like I didn't see anything at first, but ek's attacks on her are actually showing her in a different light. It's nothing drastic, not yet at least, but she seems to be failing to defend herself properly.
Post 819: In which we learn xRECK favors himself, Pug and Messiah (Though he has an imprint vote on E_K and doesn't on Messiah (Now CTD)
Post 821: Why? Because of town reads. Messiah least, but he thinks we can get info based on his imprinting (though I am not sure why? I admit that I should have asked at that point. xRECKx, how would we have obtained more/less info with a Messiah imprint, just out of curiosity)
Post 835: We should imprint and goto night phase, says xRECK. Fair enough.
Post 839:
I don't like that he said 'lets imprint Pug and....' as if it were a foregone conclusion that Pug was obviously going to be imprinted. Pug was still two votes away, and even though Pug was closest other than Buttonmen, something about this rubbed me the wrong way. Almost everyone had voted imprints and Pug was still two short. Why say it like Pug was certain to be imprinted?xRECKONERx wrote:Let's imprint Pug and... well, shit, I guess I'll go with Imprint: Buttonmen just to get one out of the way.
Post 842: xRECK rightly notes that we want to make sure that we get the second imprint in without risking a no-lynch. While I agree, the fact that this followed his comment about Pug almost certainly getting an imprint, makes me wonder if he wanted to be sure Pug got his imprint before going to night.
Maybe I'm reading too far into it, but his comments on Farside that I disagreed with, along with the 'push for pug' (he is also voting to imprint Plum and E_K, I will note here) makes me stop and pause. It also is enough to make me withhold my own imprint vote from Pug, especially because SC is also on the 'imprint Pug' crew.
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Limerickx Goon
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December 23
December 28elvis_knits wrote:So, I am down for the no-lynch and imprint 2 people plan. But I'm still voting farside for the moment because I figure why not use my time wisely.
I guess buttonmen should get the imprint. He's probably most likely to be town although I don't care for the way he thinks (and thus don't love him being a town leader, even if he is town). But I guess it's better to have someone you're pretty sure is town even if they rub you the wrong way.
I'm not sure who I want as the second at this point. Pug is the closest to imprint I think. Pug hasn't done too much I can find fault in, and he was not part of the incest voting from D1 which is a point in his favor. My only reservation is he hasn't been as involved in the game, not posting as much, not really originating cases or scum hunting that much.
(I mean, I would obviously trust myself or SC to get imprints but I know that's not happening.)
Why the change? You made one post on the 26th saying you were still here (holidays) but your feelings were apparent. Why the switch to a 1 imprint no lynch day?elvis_knits wrote:Let's just stick with the one imprint and no-lynch-
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Limerickx Goon
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Agreed regarding 'imprint people we are confident are town.'
RECK, I never said you said Pug was CERTAIN to get an imprint. I said that the way you worded it carried a strong suggestion that Pug was going to be the one. It was the way I read it. Added to the fact that SC (someone I think is very suspicious) is voting to imprint Pug, and the fact that your comments regarding Farside's 'hole-digging' were somewhat lacking, (in my eyes) and the fact that you made sure that there was no way a NL was going through until a 2nd imprint was taken care of (again, I want to clarify that in a bubble, I agree 100% with this, but when combined to my initial inklings of suspicion regarding your prior comment about Pug, made me uneasy.) Makes me uncomfortable giving Pug an imprint, and makes me more suspicious of you.
E_K what do you think about what CTD has said since replacing Messiah?-
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Limerickx Goon
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The reason which I felt were strong for imprinting 2 over 1 is that in the event an imprint was something like a blocker/tracker type, it could be used to check the first user. Thats one reason I can think of.
Like most things in this setup, its a risk/reward proposition, what level of risk are you most willing to take?-
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Limerickx Goon
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Checking in! New years at the bar, what dedication!
I wanted to ask, it appears that we've leant away from imprinting two-no lynch to either lynch one-no lynch or lynch plus one imprint. Id like to stick with two imprint at the least and here is why.
Before imprinting buttonmen
, I think its safe to say we were in favor of two imprint. If we imagine we were wrong about button (not that I think it is the case, I voted to imprint him after all) then it would be in the mafias best imprint to cut the imprinting there. Id rather safeguard against this. If people want to couple this with a lynch, well, whatever.
Am I really off base with this? Being too paranoid?-
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Limerickx Goon
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Hadn't considered it too much, but without going back and rereading posts, I'd lean towards one of SC, xRECx, or E_K most likely.farside22 wrote:@limerick: if you were given an investigation role who would you look into and why?
To clarify what I was getting at last night, I feel (and maybe its just me misinterpreting the situation) like as soon as Button was imprinted, there seemed to be a shift away from (what I felt) was the consensus of a two imprint/no lynch night, to a lot of conversation about the possibility of a one imprint night with the possibility of a lynch. Generally, I guess I'm the sort of person to stop and pause when one event sets of a change like that.SerialClergyman wrote:Limerick, I don't like your reasoning but I'm reluctatnt to jump on you because it's NYE and maybe a little boisterous. Come explain it a bit further when you're sober
Basically, I felt that the imprinting of Button caused a shift in the mindset of what the plan for the rest of the day was going to be. Is this because Button is mafia, so the mafia are trying to leave the night at one imprint on Button? Could it be that people are simply having second thoughts about a second imprint? Maybe its the players who replaced in having a different opinion. Maybe its all in my head? I think these are all possibilities, and there are probably more as well, but I wanted to bring up that I noticed this change. Does anyone else see this, or is it just me?
I personally would like to do a second imprint, if only because I would feel a lot more at ease about not possibly being manipulated in some way. I also think that the extra risk of a second imprint is worth the reward, as many roles relate to other PRs (tracker being the most relevant.)
Thoughts?-
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Limerickx Goon
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I know we haven't agreed on much this game SC, but I'll give credit where its due, this is a VERY good point, and if I were to get imprinted along with an investigation role, I might very well check up on CTD for this very reason. Good stuff SC.SerialClergyman wrote: If I had an investigation I would use it on CTD. This is because I think messiah was scummy, and CTD is making good strong posts. He's the sort of guy I REALLY want to know if he's town or scum, because he'd be very useful to the town if he's confirmed innocent and would be very difficult to get lynched if he was scum.-
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Limerickx Goon
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Limerickx Goon
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This is pretty much summed up in my Post 857 where I thought that xRECK was trying to nudge Pug into an imprint before the end of the night, almost like a 'well guys, Pug is going to be the imprint, lets go ahead and finish it off and take it to night.' Its possible I saw something where there was nothing, but due to the fact that I was suspicious of xRECK before, it was enough to catch my attention. If xRECK WERE to flip scum, it would make me a bit more suspicious of Pug. Certainly not an "If xRECK then pug" level of strength (after all, maybe Button is sneaky scum and xRECK just wanted to get on with it), but it would certainly increase my suspicion.SerialClergyman wrote:I did.
What about scumReck makes you think scumpug?-
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Limerickx Goon
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E_K and SC, I think the problem people have with your buddying is the LEVEL that it is apparent, and the earliness in which it happened.
You give the appearance that you're unflexable in your assurance that the other is town, a view that you seemed to cement VERY VERY early on in the game. Now, you just said you would change if the situation warrants, and thats fine, but its the APPEARANCE that you put out that puts people on edge.
Its kind of like the idea of 'professional skepticism' in the accounting world. When someone is auditing a company, they don't start with the assumption that there is fraud, and they don't assume the opposite. It could be the last day, and nothing has been found up to that point, but you still need to look at each piece as if it was something new. Your interactions with E_K give the vibe that your reliance on each other would make it hard to spot scumminess in the others play, because you're looking for someone to bounce ideas off of only, and considering if their play is scummy....somewhere near the bottom.-
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Limerickx Goon
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Soc, my last scumlist is found here in Post 856
Or course, replacement players replace old players.
Not much has changed on my end. If anything, xRECK might be my number one suspect over SC. I'm also going to keep CTD more in mind, only because his predecessor was suspicious in my mind.
Other than that, I've seen little to substantially change my list as it was in that post.-
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Limerickx Goon
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Also Socrates, I'll agree that as far as SC/E_K are concerned, I'd imagine its far far more likely that either both are town, or it is a one mafia to one townie relationship. Of course, it could be some sort of crazy gambit, but I find it unlikely.
That being said, its easy to see why it rubs people the wrong way, as it DOES appear like it would prevent one from analyzing the other honestly, and it DID form so early in the game, when I dont think either could have been that sure about the other.-
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Limerickx Goon
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First of all, I said 'weak lynch.' not bad lynch, which I think is important to differentiate. I felt it was weak in that in that I didn't feel his reasons for leading the lynch were as rock solid as he did (because he was oh-so-sure!.) If I remember correctly, his main reason for a lynch was that Starbuck was defending DN. I didn't feel like she was defending DN, but saying that the arguments used against DN weren't completely logical, or that they had flaws. I had very little problem with SC thinking Starbucks actions were scummy, but he acted like his opinion was 100% right, no doubt about it.Socrates wrote:What were you doing day 2 when SC was leading what you felt was a bad lynch?
Regarding your last two points, what would youexpecta town SC to do, that those points are scummy?
First question (what was I doing for two days) SC hammered Wednesday night. I posted my imprints, and noted I didn't like SCs hammer when everyone else was talking about imprint issues. I went to sleep after making a comment to farside about voting to imprint yourself.
Thursday: Work until late, then dinner with girlfriend, then home to pack (Atlantic City.) Checked the board, didn't post. Rereading, it seemed that the Starbuck movement was starting to build, but I must not have thought anything so important was going on that I had to carefully read everything and post (I might have still been mad at SC, I admit to being grumpy at his hammer for a little bit)
Friday: Work late, went straight to a bus to Atlantic City. Checked my phone on the trip and saw the mounting stuff against Starbuck. Was slightly confused at how strong it seemed to be getting, decided to read everything when I got the chance. Didn't get to, Messiah hammered Friday night.
Regarding my last two points:
a) Regarding poor voting records re:SC. Fair, I might have worded this poorly. I was more bothered by the fact that he did this POORLY in my mind (I took offense with him criticizing my voting record (second to last on DN, not on SB) when in my mind, his was far worse (he hammered DN when people were talking about potential imprints and started and pushed the lynch on SB (townie.)) So while analyzing voting records can of course be of great value, it was more about his conclusion and his logic behind it, and after pointing out that his record was quite possibly the worst of anyone, he kept trying to make it seem like the fact that I wasn't on the SB lynch made me MORE suspicious that him, that not voting for Starbuck meant I was not scummy for not recognizing the greatness of his case (which was wrong!)
b) Regarding when he started favoring imprints: SC was in favor of imprinting and not lynching only AFTER Starbuck was lynched, a lynch he started and pushed for. Not on the first day, not on the second day, only after the person he pushed to lynch flipped townie.
I think that I felt good about Messiah at first, but that might have just been because he agreed with what I had to say regarding the theory of this games mechanics early on. As the game went on, I just felt like that was a lot of what he did, that I felt good about him because he thought my ideas on game theory were good (yay! someone thinks my ideas are right!) and for not much else. In Messiahs case, its more like I was really happy at the start, and a 'lack of maintenance' started to erode it as I realized that I got a townie vibe for maybe the wrong reasons. It kind of hard to say really, kind of a gut thing I guess.Socrates wrote:Would you please explain what you mean by your town read decreased as time went on? What did he do that you don't like?
I wouldn't put it that way. Its kind of just surprising. I find it odd that Plum gets a town read on Elvis and nobody else more (or in other words, Elvis is MOST TOWN) Elvis (if I recall, this is 100% off memory, so I may be mistaken, Elvis, did you ever say something along these lines?) even noted herself that she wouldn't be surprised if she never got an imprint. I just find it funny that Plum would find Elvis so much more town than anyone else, not that she got a town vibe off her AT ALL.Socrates wrote:So you don't feel Plum could justify a town read on Elvis?
I think he is fairly open about who is he suspicious of, is unapologetic about his thoughts and theories (Its funny, sometimes I think I'd be much less suspicious of SC if I thought his crazytime logic made an ounce of sense.) When he responds to other people asking questions I don't get the feeling that he has to try to make stuff up to answer. Truthfully, his gamebreak logic is one of the smaller reasons I get a town vibe off him. I felt good about him before that too.Socrates wrote:What has buttonmen done other than the early discussions about gamebreaking that makes you think he is town?
Yes, in the next post, right HERE. I recently linked to this post to answer to SC why I thought that if xRECK were to ever flip scum, I would be more suspicious of Pug.Socrates wrote: Did you ever do this 'indepthness'?
Socrates wrote:Re: Buttonmen's game breaking stuff. Can someone tell me why this makes him likely town? I'll tell you this much, the first thing I would do as scum in this type of game would be to play a game of "Lets break the setup guys!" in order to score easy town points while being completely comfortable in the thought that any half competent Mod or their reviewers would have caught any gamebreaking strategy's. It allows one to avoid taking any alignment significant stances while still appearing to have to towns best interest at heart.
Is it scummy? Hell no.
Is it null? hell yes.
I think saying NULL is a little strong, but I agree that it shouldn't be what swings someone from 'he is mafia' to 'he is townie' side. For me the fact that I get good vibes from Button to begin with is augmented by the fact that even if a gamebreaking strategy is shut down for one way or another, thinking about things can still help think about BETTER ways to play. If I recall, SC had some things to say on the topic of gamebreaking around the same time, but of course he is still high up on my scumlist! But I do agree to the basic premise of this.
Any other questions for me? I gather you asked these of me mainly because Pug and I are the next two highest imprint vote getters, and assuming that we do imprint one other person, I'd of course want it to be me (I'm on record as saying that NOT wanting an imprint is more scummy than the vice-versa)-
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Limerickx Goon
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One more note Socrates, I don't know what the Mod would answer re: your question about 'paranoid or naive cop investigation as a purely negative imprint?' but I would imagine the LOGICAL answer would be that there is nothing good about those roles, assuming they are given to a townie. Since the role is lost the next day, there is zero way (that I can think of) that getting this role would have any use. Just my opinion.-
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Limerickx Goon
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Again, being confident is fine, but using bad logic is not. When SC makes point I disagree with, and defends them in ways that make my head hurt, it makes me uncomfortable about him. SB was not just suspicious in his mind, but guilty to the extent that not voting for her makes me scummy? He sets up huge lists of 'lets lynch this person, then if s/he slips x, we lynch y, and if that person flips z we lynch a, as if nothing would happen in between that would change abything? Be certain about your reads, sure. That doesn't mean I have to like how he does it, do I? I even said:Socrates wrote:Limrickx, I don't see a single thing in your case on Serial that is actually scummy.
Being confident is your reads is NOT an alignment tell. The fact that you are using it to both cast suspicion on SC and to explain a town read on Button is evidence of that. Don't think that by hanging a lampshade on it will let you get away with contradictory logic.
so I'm not sure your 'contradictory logic' line is fair, when his being confident is prob one of the bigger reasons I waiver on him that anything else. Again, its the METHOD, not the result (his being confident in his reads)Limerickx wrote:(Its funny, sometimes I think I'd be much less suspicious of SC if I thought his crazytime logic made an ounce of sense.)
Sorry, but I disagree. You don't think a case can be made that by taking it to the next day, you reset the vote count for imprints and can try to change who might get those imprints? Look who were the top imprint getters at the end of day 1. VMD (Now KoC), Messiah (now CTD) and Button. All had 5 votes to imprint. Now, Button has been imprinted. The other top two? KoC has 1 imprint vote, and CTD has 0. Those two players were close to getting imprinted before SC hammered, and now they are nowhere close. Are you saying there isn't a chance that those two were town, and by hammering, SC was able to prevent them from being imprinted? Not only that, but its 'the lamest point?' Its possible that SC is town, and he DID prevent scum from being imprinted. But scum know who are town, and townies are not sure. Taking matters into your own hands to ensure people you don't want imprinted aren't makes me more uncomfortable then assuming that SC has the entire scum team locked up day 1 and being happy about it. If SC were to get lynched and flip scum, I imagine I'd feel a lot better about those two players (especially CTD)Socrates wrote:Hammering to cut off discussion is about the lamest point one can make when you consider the fact that the game isfunctionally nightless. You guys are talking, someone hammers, and then... you guys go on talking.
Socrates wrote:You still haven't answered why Serial being pro-imprints today isscummyand you didn't answer my question about what you would have expected a town SC to do differently.
Because changing what you think is the best approach based on keeping yourself alive is suspicious in my mind. SC wasn't in favor of imprinting with no lynch on night one, obviously and he was against imprints on night two. Now imprinting is a good idea in his mind, and I believe he said so before the SB flip (after she was lynched, but before she flipped) I don't like flip flopping when it is in your best interest alone. I would expect a town SC to think about what is best for the town on every occasion. Changing your mind on what that may be is one thing, but changing your mind the instant that continuing with what you have been advocating is to your detriment is another.
Socrates wrote:I don't really have issue with anything else you wrote. One observation is that I don't find it surprising that you are the top imprint getter, since none of your reads are controversial or in conflict with the rest of the town's.
I don't know. I'm going to assume that by 'the town's' you mean 'the players as a whole,' and not that you made a big scum slipup :-p but I think it was kind of a slow rise to being near the top of the imprinting. I was near the bottom for a while, and then one day I noticed I was near the top. All I can say is that I personally was surprised.
As a note, if we were to lynch, Id vote xRECK. I appreciate that your questions DID make me rethink my thoughts on SC, to the point where xRECK is now a 'better' choice.-
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Limerickx Goon
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Limerickx Goon
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Even if the knowledge of a non-lynch might result in less pressure on people, getting the imprints right (or at least doing our due diligence) is just as important. If the alternative of making sure we're comfortable with imprints is rushing and alowing scumster getting a power for the ENTIRE GAME, then I want to make sure the right people are imprinted. In mind, a 'lets just get the imprints over with' attitude is at least dangerous, and at most, suspicious.-
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Limerickx Goon
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Question for SC:
What is your personal opinion on me? I haven't heard much from you regarding me since you said my voting record was spotty. Where on the spectrum of scum (tm) would I fall in your eyes, and why?
I ask because Socrates questioning me as one of the higher (not that upon review, I'm that close) imprint possibilities (and Soc is now right up there with Pug and me. Wee!) made me curious, and truthfully, more determined to get that last imprint spot.-
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Limerickx Goon
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Don't know, but the reason that I'd like to be imprinted isn't that I think I'm so obv town, its that being imprinted most benefits my team (as stated before, I know my role, I don't know anyone elses, thus best if I get the imprint blahblahblah)
Generally? I don't think I HAVE done anything that is oh-so-obv town, which is why I was slightly surprised that Soc said he WASN'T surprised that I was one of the next in line to get an imprint. I was fairly surprised myself (mainly because I get the whole 'uninteresting' aspect)
Just curious as to your take.-
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Limerickx Goon
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Except for you right? I also said I suspect xRECK, as another note, and if xRECK, then Pug moves up my list too.SerialClergyman wrote:The (possible) reason why you're that high on the imprint list (exlcusing even the possibility you are scum and have scummates on your imprint wagon) is that since you've done nothing controversial and never accused an innocent, noone has something that sticks in their mind about you being scummy.
Also, I never said my answer wasn't applicable to both town and scum. I know it is, but that doesn't mean its not the reason I'd want to be imprinted. It is. I was really just curious as to your opinion. If I was looking to solicit votes, trust me, you wouldn't be the first person I'd turn to.-
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Limerickx Goon
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Limerickx Goon
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Limerickx Goon
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Limerickx Goon
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