Mini #893 - Dollhouse Mafia (Game Over!)

[farside22]

imprint farside22

unimprint: farside22

Not as sure about you as VMD was.

Please explain why you imprinted farside in your catchup post then unimprinted farside later, blaming the imprint on VMD (like it was VMD's imprint, when actually it was yours).

I asked about this myself and never got an answer.

[elvis_knits]

TBH, I didn't see much of a reason for him to want to imprint you in the first place... I don't think he mentioned you at all and then you were the only person he imprinted. Then he unimprinted while blaming the imprint on VMD... who wasn't the one who imprinted you -- he did.

[Limerickx]

Knight of Cydonia; I don’t think he’s scum at this moment, but I'd also prefer him not to get an imprint at this time.

You either think I'm town, and therefore would be willing to imprint me, or think I'm scum, and therefore do not. This isn't a multi faction game, people here are scum or town, and the fact that you've got fence posts up your arse for about half the players in the game at this point is most irksome. You don't think I'm scum - ergo, you must think I am town/leaning town. You *should* want town players imprinted as a townie. Saying "I don't think you're scum, but I won't imprint you" is crazy.

Don't forget about this either (I certainly forgot about it)

I don't see how this makes any sense. I have good vibes from Farside, but I don't want to imprint farside for a few reasons.

a) Only wanted 2 imprints
b) Saying I think someone is more likely town than scum =/= I know they are town and can imprint them with no reservations.

I'm starting to feel the bad vibes on KoC that everyone else is feeling.

[Limerickx]

I'm curious as to what people think about players who are lurking more now that the imprints are cast. Lurking is bad in general, but do you think it is likely that scum would try and post less (especially less possible incriminating things) after the imprints have been cast, trying to bring less attention to themselves near the end of the day in the hopes that a possible cop-imprint might forget about them?

[xRECKONERx]

I don't know. I just think we need to go to night, this game is losing my interest.

[CrashTextDummie]

First thought that came into my head upon reading SC's plans to imprint farside:
"Hell no."

He's once again "clearing" a person based on logic that simply doesn't work for me. If farside is scum, I'd expect her scum-buddies

not

to jump on the so-called "gift" that SC presented, particuarly if they are KoC and xRECKx, the two people I strongly feel are scum. They are both fairly exposed, and I'd expect them to avoid taking

any

kind of action that would implicate a scum-buddy who's in a reasonably comfortable position. Furthermore, I doubt Limerickx or TheButtonmen as scum would risk it, they already have their imprint, and I would expect them to play it safe and not be greedy. Basically, I don't think the fact that SC put an imprint vote on her and no one reacted to it tells us anything at all about her alignment.

However, I do have second thoughts, particularly after reading the reactions to his suggestion:
- First of all, I was reasonably happy with her answers to my questioning. I still disagree with her methods, but she shows internal consistency.
- Secondly, unlike the BS that SC used to start it up in the first place, the fact that no one jumped on her imprint wagon after it was 3 persons strong is a reasonable indication that she doesn't have ties. Of particular note is that neither of my two top suspects (KoC and xRECKx), nor the currently imprinted players are showing any interest. I still don't think that SC and Elvis are scum together, so I'm pretty much ruling out the chance that this is a scheme cooked up by the collective scum-team. There's scum out there who is against this imprint.
- Thirdly, I dislike the reasoning that has been put forth against this imprint. The main reason Limerickx, TheButtonmen and KoC don't want her imprinted is apparently because they don't want to deviate from the plan of having only 2 imprints. In my eyes, that's weak. If you are reasonably sure someone is town, there's no reason not to get them imprinted, plans be damned. More imprinted townies is always better. Neither of these 3 people is arguing against the imprint on the merits of farside being town or scum. I don't like that.

I'm pretty sure I forgot something I wanted to say (I'm tired), but all things considered, I'm willing to give this a shot and see where it goes.

Imprint: farside22

[Limerickx]

The main reason Limerickx, TheButtonmen and KoC don't want her imprinted is apparently because they don't want to deviate from the plan of having only 2 imprints. In my eyes, that's weak. If you are reasonably sure someone is town, there's no reason not to get them imprinted, plans be damned. More imprinted townies is always better.

In a bubble, yes. The fact still stands that if people say 'lets do 2 imprints' and two imprints are made, a movement saying 'hey, lets add one more' afterwards makes me feel uneasy. I said that before I was imprinted too, so its not like I'm being greedy, or changing my mind because I got an imprint.

Personally, yes, I think farside is more likely town than scum. No, that doesn't mean I am compelled to imprint her. I'm being open about that fact, my reasons for not wanting her imprinted are not because I get a scum vibe from her. I'm not SURE she isn't scum though, and that is important.

If a NK happens, guess what? I KNOW that button is scum. I'm fine with that. Even if I was the worst person in the world at convincing other people of my innocence, worst case is button goes down the next day, and there is some good evidence that can be used to find scum buddies (people who voted to lynch me). Things get more hairy as the imprints go up.

As far as the 'not many people jumped on the bandwagon to imprint = she doesn't have ties,' I also don't know if thats the case. If Button and myself are both town, and scum is trying to slip in an imprint on one of their own at the last second, a future farside scumflip can be pretty incriminating. Why jump on a wagon that appeared out of nowhere when it could later be suspect? You can feel it out, are townies joining? Could a scum slip in slowly and be part of a crowd? If not, no harm lost, farside isn't imprinted, and you have a clean slate next day.

But yes, long story short, the first point is still key. Last minute changes to plans make me uncomfortable, and that would be true even if I wasn't imprinted.

[farside22]

limerick hypothetical question for you.
Say you were not the one imprinted and we had 2 imprints already. Soon someone brings up the idea that they feel you are town and should be imprinted as well. Would you still stand there saying no don't imprint me I stand by the 2 imprint idea?

[SerialClergyman]

Limerick, I'd point out that when you first mentioned your objection to a different number of imprints you were asking for an additional one, now you're denying a third. If farside had been imprinted twice and you were the candidate for the third imprint rather than the other way around, would you still be taking this line?

[SerialClergyman]

lol simulpost. We're like peas on a pod now. Who knew?

[farside22]

lol simulpost. We're like peas on a pod now. Who knew?

I'm scared, hold me!

[CrashTextDummie]

Limerickx, how happy are you about TheButtonmen being imprinted given his play since he got the imprint?

I personally doubt we'll see a NK tonight unless we happen to imprint more than one scum, based on a theory I've been mulling over. I severely doubt there's more than one scum in the group of TheButtonmen/Limerickx/farside. So I see your NK-based thoughts as moot.

Your last paragraph I find to be flawed. If Button and you are town, the scum are in fairly deep trouble. That's strong incentive right there to get one of their own imprinted. Unless you belive farside/Elvis/SC to be the scum-team (which you ostensibly don't, otherwise your musings would be moot), townies have already joined the wagon. In your scenario, a better opportunity is probably not gonna present itself to get scum imprinted.

Farside has barely been attacked all game. As far as I remember, xRECKx is the only person to express strong suspicion of her. It would have been easy for any other player to join her imprint wagon without betraying any previous stance they took. Instead, mostly everyone is refraining because of weak strategic reasoning. Socrates is the only one who's apparently paranoid that SC and farside are trying to pull a fast one. If more people were against her imprint because of legitimate doubts of her being pro-town, I'd be much more inclined to believe that the anti-farside-imprint sentiment is pro-town driven.

[Limerickx]

limerick hypothetical question for you.
Say you were not the one imprinted and we had 2 imprints already. Soon someone brings up the idea that they feel you are town and should be imprinted as well. Would you still stand there saying no don't imprint me I stand by the 2 imprint idea?

I never say you SHOULD be against it? I understand why you want to be imprinted. On the other hand, if I were in your shoes, I would understand why others would NOT want me to be imprinted.

Ditto to SC, simulpost indeed (scum can talk during the day! OMGWTFBBW be wary! )

Limerickx, how happy are you about TheButtonmen being imprinted given his play since he got the imprint?

Not very happy at all, I've mentioned that.

Unless you belive farside/Elvis/SC to be the scum-team (which you ostensibly don't, otherwise your musings would be moot), townies have already joined the wagon.

And what does that mean? I have to agree with every other townie on every point? I am wary of adding imprints after the fact. Thats my take.

I severely doubt there's more than one scum in the group of TheButtonmen/Limerickx/farside. So I see your NK-based thoughts as moot.

I doubt it as well, but as you increase the pool, you increase the chance for error. I'm not comfortable with increasing the size of the imprint pool when it comes right after the two imprints which were previously agreed on, almost as a 'hey guys, lets imprint farside too!'

Your last paragraph I find to be flawed. If Button and you are town, the scum are in fairly deep trouble.

Really? You know what imprints we're going to get? Mafia don't know what the imprints are any more than you and me. Maybe I'll get tracker, Button one-shot NK. Are the mafia in fairly deep trouble then?
Its another case of risk/reward. If farside was scum, float the idea of a 3rd imprint. Nobody bites, that's fine, hope that townies don't get a good imprint. Hell, maybe Button IS scum. You try to sneak in a second scum imprint, which causes a whole NEW nest of problems.

As for Soc, I don't THINK SC and farside are trying to pull a fast one, but I acknowledge the possibility. I don't understand why everyone seems to think that decisions can't be based off a spectrum. I don't THINK SC and farside are trying to pull a fast one, but that doesn't mean I can't be uncomfortable with giving farside an imprint at this point. I don't KNOW that something fishy isn't going on.

This isn't anti-farside, its anti 'change at the last minute.'

[farside22]

I never say you SHOULD be against it? I understand why you want to be imprinted. On the other hand, if I were in your shoes, I would understand why others would NOT want me to be imprinted.

That's not the point of the question. It's would you still push for only 2 imprints instead of 3 imprints and just go no lynch and let it settle?
In other words you are saying, no because of a "standard" of only 2 imprints but if you were not imprinted and someone wanted to imprint you with already 2 imprints would you be putting this rule in front of yourself?

[Limerickx]

Answering honestly, I'm not sure. I'd LIKE to say I wouldn't push for it, but in reality, in your shoes I probably would. Again, it is in your best interest to be imprinted.

That being said, I dont know that its in mine either, and the fact that the question comes up after the two imprints were cast makes me wary.

I don't understand where you're going with the question. I understand why you'd push to be imprinted. I don't have a problem with that.

[farside22]

Answering honestly, I'm not sure. I'd LIKE to say I wouldn't push for it, but in reality, in your shoes I probably would. Again, it is in your best interest to be imprinted.

That being said, I dont know that its in mine either, and the fact that the question comes up after the two imprints were cast makes me wary.

I don't understand where you're going with the question. I understand why you'd push to be imprinted. I don't have a problem with that.

It's only because you have this mentality that makes no sense.
It's the we only said 2 imprints therefore I stand by that even though I have a town read.
It just makes no sense to hold onto such an ideal if you have a town read.

[Pug89]

I just got back to school and I'm busy with beginning of semester stuff so I will try to catch up within the next few days.

[Limerickx]

I think you are more likely town than scum. That doesn't mean I want to take on the risk of being wrong by imprinting you. Its not a mentality that makes no sense. Its simple risk/reward mechanics.

I could name a bunch of other people who I think are more likely town than scum. That doesn't mean I have the level of confidence that I feel I need to imprint another person last minute, ESPECIALLY on a whim brought up by SC, someone I've been suspicious of for a while.

[Socrates]

I don't have a problem with a third person being imprinted. To quote myself from when I replaced into the game:

As to the discussion about whether or not to imprint another person, I don't think there is much optimal strategy here than to vote to imprint your strongest town reads and nothing more. If there isn't a second person that we feel we can trust with a power role, then we shouldn't force ourselves to do so, and if there IS a person we think we can trust, then you should vote to support that guy, regardless of the previous number of imprints.

The only reason in my opinion to resist an imprint on another person is if you are not comfortable with a town read on them.

As I have said before, I did have a town read on Farside (or at least a stronger one than I had on Limrickx or Button), and to be honest I think I am letting the weirdness of the way SerialClergyman claims to have cleared her (which I still don't agree with, btw) interfere with pretty much my entire view of the game up to that point.

So ya.

imprint:Farside

[SerialClergyman]

I think everyone has given an answer except pug and we need +1 imprint to get it done.

Come on little man, your town needs you!

[iamausername]

-=Vote Count #36=-

No Lynch (5) - Montana, Iowa, Hawaii, Ohio, Florida
Iowa (1) - Kansas
Hawaii (1) - Virginia

Not Voting (3) - Alaska, Georgia, Colorado

6 to lynch.

-=Imprint Count #36=-

Hawaii (6) - Hawaii, Kansas, Ohio, Florida, Montana, Iowa
Florida (6) - Florida, Ohio, Kansas, Colorado, Montana, Hawaii

Kansas (5) - Alaska, Kansas, Virginia, Colorado, Georgia
Montana (3) - Alaska, Iowa, Montana
Georgia (3) - Iowa, Georgia, Ohio
Virginia (2) - Iowa, Alaska
Ohio (1) - Ohio
Iowa (1) - Iowa
Alaska (1) - Georgia
Colorado (1) - Colorado

6 to imprint.

ALASKA = SerialClergyman
COLORADO = CrashTextDummie
FLORIDA = Limerickx
GEORGIA = Socrates
HAWAII = TheButtonmen
IOWA = xRECKONERx
KANSAS = farside22
MONTANA = Pug89
OHIO = Knight of Cydonia
VIRGINIA = elvis_knits

[Limerickx]

Ah, whatever, lets go for it then.

My main scum reads are on the sideline, I DO have a town read from Farside.
I'm not happy with how the vote went down at all, but at least its going down on someone who has a decent shot of being town.

Imprint: Farside

[xRECKONERx]

End day plz

[farside22]

I really don't like changing my vote. I'm letting EK, SC or Soc vote as I stated clearly my vote wasn't going anywhere else today. I feel good about Reck/KOC as top two scum.

[CrashTextDummie]

You're not letting me vote, farside?

I'd actually like to hear some closing thoughts from Pug before the day is over.