Newbie 827 - Store Katana (Scum Win!)

[Wysp]

/confirm.

Nice tameetchall, folks!

@ JVW, as for your question about experience, I've played a few times before, yeah. It was always a little more complicated, though. Best way to learn the rules is from the ground up.

[Wysp]

Wow, I gotta go find that one. I've seen a game where no Townies died, but nothing so clean as that. XD

[Wysp]

*facepalm*

I hate voting with no evidence. Post analysis time...
(BGM: AJ, Percieve Theme)

Hmmm...I'm gonna bet that Tenchi made one of the experienced players Mafia, to help them out a little bit, but only one. Since there are more Semi-E's than ICs, I'm going to bet it's one of them...

Vote: NewAgeWarrior

[Wysp]

Ah, point taken. Oh well, my vote stands, just because I can. I'm trying to work with what I have, lol.

[Wysp]

...

Wow.

I just realized exactly how far away the deadline is. Darn. Where I played, we took a week per lynch, max.

On the other hand, the night phases could last for a half a month...

I'm tempted to vote for S3 to end this round...

Okay, I'm in a dilemma. Option A: I can switch to S3 to end the round and force the Mafia to think fast and possibly botch up. Option B: I can keep on hammering NAW and see if he messes up.

*is confused*

[Wysp]

It's not so much the advantage as it is A: my impatience, lol. Like I said, we usually take a week or so to lynch at longest, and second, I picked the dude who never showed up. *shrug* Since I have no clues at the moment, I picked the vote which would (assuming S3 is a Townie and not a Mafian like Scorp implied at the beginning of this page) lessen the disadvantage to the Town.

Dangit, now you have me confused. Your name and his are so similar... I thought that the other two guys were voting for the guy who didn't show up. My bad. Okay, NVM.

Unvote NAW,

Vote: s3r9i032123

(Copypasta FTW)

[Wysp]

I'm gonna anwer the quick-lynch question once and for all:

Point 1--Like I said, I'm from a place which goes a lot faster at our lynches. I apologize if this makes me seem suspicious. Sadly, the forums which I play on are down for upgrades (and have been so for...two, three weeks, at least?), but once they come up, I can link to the pages for proof.

Point 2--I picked the guy who isn't playing. The one who would be the least advantage to the town. If anything, people who want to lynch players who are actually participating are the supicious ones. Sadly, I don't (like I have bemoaned many times before) have any evidence for finger-pointing at this time.

Point 3--Would a Mafian be making this much noise this early in the game? I've played Mafia before, on both sides, and I know the best way for the Mafian to win is to stay low and influence opinion, not stand out and speak up. What do I look like I'm doing?

*facepalm*

It's amazing that I'm fighting this hard this early in the game.

[Wysp]

NAW--I never said they did it, it just makes sense to me, as we lack evidence. What I did say was that we typically take much less time, which tends to breed impatience--a character flaw of mine. I apologize for it.

You have a point on accidentally voting for a Townie, but really, we don't have much evidence at this stage of the game. I'm just grasping at straws.

[Wysp]

*facepalm*

Wow, I feel stupid.

Okay, I just reread the rules and noticed that this site permits null votes. Ergo...

Null Vote

Rather than killing a lurker (Townie, Mafia, or whatever) or an active member, IMO it makes more sense to just not lynch.

[Wysp]

You have a point...If he's Mafia, he'll still be around further into the game, because A: The Town won't have mynched him because it's too busy trying to find the active members, and B: Mafia don't kill other Mafia. It's just stupid. On the other hand, if he's Townie, we have two options: The Mafia leaves him alone because he's not interesting, or they kill him to eliminate the excess. If I was Mafia, I'd kill him, but that's just me, XD. I've modded a few games before, and I cannot decribe how much I loathe lurkers.

So, my proposal is that if he's still alive in Round Three or so, we lynch him. If he's Mafia'd by then, then we know that he's innocent. Of course, that could take a while, but who really cares. Obviously this site is prone to waiting. Unless we get five people on a bandwagon, then it won't be ending anytime soon. I'll wait, since I've found an acceptable middle course (I won't be getting any Mafia, but on the other hand, I won't be killing any Townies.) Since the Townies have numerical superiority at this point in the game, it leaves us with the advantage.

*sits back*

I better get some popcorn.

[Wysp]

You have wysp saying he want to hammer on page 2, yet my claim and random vote (and subsequent unvote, i might add) are more scummy? I dont follow your logic.

You may notice that I have, several times, bemoaned the lack of info. I was simply picking a likely target and trying to obtain information. If you are not a Mafian, then I believe you will understand.

[Wysp]

...

@_@

Okay, now I'm confused. First you think I'm suspicious because I've picked a target and I want him lynched, and then you say that not lynching is something a Mafian would do...

What do you

want

me to do!

Frankly, IMO. I think we have a better chance if we don't vote now. No matter which of the four setups we are using, we have two Mafians and seven Town-affiliated players. Let's look at it this way:

Assuming we vote and lynch someone:
We have a 7:2, or, roughly, 3:1 chance of killing a Townie. Meaning that we will most likely hang a Townie, and the Mafia will kill someone, reducing the ratio to 5:2, or rougly 1:1. You can see where that would go downhill.

Assuming that we do not vote and lynch:
We have, as said before, seven villagers and two Mafia. Not lynching, the Mafia will kill someone and we will still have a 3:1 ratio. In addition, we will also have more information, giving us a more likely chance of nailing the Mafia, balancing out the unfavorable ratio while keeping the highest number of surviving Townies.

So, to me, it seems most favorable to null vote. Please explain your logic, I'm not sure I follow it.

[Wysp]

I'm pointing out that, if we want to get the best chance at keeping the largest amount of villagers alive, we should null vote. You can hang if you want, but I jsut think it makes the most sense.

Taking the most likely path, that is, hanging a villager, say the Mafia kill another one and we go to round two:
We would have five villagers and two Mafia. That is a 1.3:1 ratio. I'll be optimistic and assume we hang a Mafian. Then they kill one more of us, and then there would be two Townies and one Mafian. I believe we'll end up with a WIFOM argument there, which I'm hoping to avoid in my first game.

...

Haha. Nice.

I could be wrong (I'm new here and therefore my definition of "hammer" may be off), but it seems you're hammering me.

Debating whether I want to hammer may be suspicious, but actually doing it is even more so. *raises eyebrow* You say that no matter what I do I'll be suspicious, backing me into a corner in a classic Xanatos Gambit (that is, no matter what I do, you win). If I vote and press hard for that vote to go through because I think he's probably guilty, I'm suspicious. If I null-vote because I want to keep civilian casualties to a low, I'm suspicious.

You know what I think is suspicious?

You.

Pushing, pushing, pushing. Never giving up. Hammering me as hard as you can. You've been playing it calm, laid-back--just like a Mafian who doesn't want to be noticed. And as soon as I made a mistake, you jump all over me, pushing me to make another mistake. You pound me for trying to hang someone, and then I null, deciding not to hang anyone, and then you hammer me for that. I've played a few games, and every time that the Mafia won, that's how they won.

I think you are a Mafian.

Vote: Messiah

.

I've defended myself against all of your accusations, while my request for your explanation that it is disadvantageous to null on day one goes unheeded. Now, make your defense.

*deep breath*
Okay, keep things civil, Wysp. I apologize for getting upset. He's pushed me a bit far, without heeding my requests. I've played a few Mafia games, and one of the most common tactics of Mafia is to accuse without defending themselves. That's what makes me think Messiah is a Mafian.

By the way, what does the vote count stand at? I have no idea.

[Wysp]

Ah, much better. Thank you

After looking at that, I see what you're saying. I'm gonna take a laugh here. After looking at that explanation of why Mafia would push for a Null Vote, it strikes me that yes, for a Mafian, that would be a good idea. However, if you review what I've said so far, it should be obvious that I was simply seeking a way to reduce Townie casualties.

As for the definition of hammer, thank you for correcting me. I was using "hammer" in the context of pounding someone relentlessly.

I don't recall saying I was confused, although admittedly I was. I also never said anything about scum not doing what I was doing, to the best of my recollection. I have simply said that this is the best thing for the town to do, and I provided the math for it. However, if you don't want me to null, I have no issue with that. A Mafian would, yes, push for it, but I'm willing to cede. A WIFOM, possibly, but I'll let you be the judge. I'm hoping that you aren't wearing jade-colored glasses when you make your ruling.

And I wasn't asking why they are anti-town, I was asking for your math so that we could compare them side-by-side and see which would be, in the long run, more advantageous for us.

I'll also proffer this argument as to my innocence: if I was Mafia, I'da backstabbed my buddy already. I have a conscience, and the Town winning has precedence over my winning. I can cite at least two cases where I've placed the Town ahead of myself: Once, when I was a Serial Killer who targetted Mafia (this was before the concept of the Vigilante, so it was revolutionary) and then revealed my role and submitted myself to the judgement of the Town, and the second time, I found the Cop and PMed him a list of the names of my fellow Mafians. Meaning, if I am a Mafian, I would have somehow indicated who my partner in crime is. To the extent of my knowledge, it's not against the rules.

Godwin's Law, Ora. I never said anything about Messiah being a Nazi, I've simply said that this guy smells scummy to me. As for histrionics, I type how I talk. Maybe it's a character flaw of mine, but I've never met someone who had an issue with it yet. I plan to get published and I've been working on it for...pffh...six, seven years. I have a tendency to use bombastic words.
And as for the Null vote business, I've already told you. I ceased that. I think Messiah is a Mafian because he's displayed tells of Mafians that I've seen before. I'm using what experience I have.

Quick question-- Messiah, you seem to be experienced here. How many games here have you played?

[Wysp]

Mm. Yeah, I'm pretty ticked off as well. I'd link it to you, but the forum is down. If you want, I can link to the forum's down message if you want me to prove, at minimum, that the forum exists. I can also get you in contact with the GM of the Serial Killer game I mentioned to corroborate my claim (sadly, I don't remember who was GMing the game where I was Mafia--I've done it a few times. XD) via AIM.

If I was appealing to emotion, I will simply say that that was not my intention. I was trying to appeal to logic as well as I know how.

[Wysp]

In addition, I'd like to point at Tenchi's last game, Katana Village. Page Two, a player known as Wickedswami says no lynch, and they immediately jump all over him. While he does get later replaced, his replacement is revealed to have been a townie. It is, obviously, a common fallacy made by new players. I hope you will understand.

---

VOTE COUNT

(2) Wysp - julienvonwolfe, Messiah

(1) n107yuh - XScorpion
(1) NewAgeWarrior - purple princess
(1) Messiah - Wysp

Not Voting: n107yuh, Sarcyn, NewAgeWarrior, oramiuri

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch
DEADLINE: September 7, 2009 12:01 PM PST

[Wysp]

Mm. You're taking those out of context. Those weren't meant by a defense, it was just an idle comment.

Let me rephrase the "New Player" comment: It is a common fallacy made by players unfamiliar with the tactic. We don't use those, we're more used to talking to each other via PM behind each other's backs, XD.

You think I'm scum...

I'll let you vote for me, if you're that determined. I know that I'll be vindicated in the end, live or die.

[Wysp]

As they say, the bet's only good if your life is the ante. *grin*

[Wysp]

1) There's no problem with a bit of aggression. However, playing in a fast style when there's no need to is unnecessary.

2) Do you prefer to lynch lurkers, or replace them?

3) As has been pointed out, this is a WIFOM defence.

1) Yes, I have realized that. Accept my apologies.

2) I am not familiar with the replacing piece. Where I came from, we usually either lynched them or left them alone, and they never showed up or bothered us.

3) That doesn't decrease its validity.

How do you propose to kill mafia in this game if we never lynch?

I never said never lynch. I said don't lynch now and get more evidence.

Of course, I've since renounced that thought, since more experinced members have corrected me.

[Wysp]

Yeah. I'm gonna apologize for the hammer/lynch/nolynch stuff. That was an honest mistake, and you'll find the same true even if you lynch me. XD

On second thought, I'm seeing it from Messiah's POV. I can understand how I looked suspicious. I'll withdraw my vote for Messiah. I don't know who to vote for at the moment, though.

[Wysp]

Hahaha...Wysp is suspicious.

Maybe I'm a Townie who's made a deal with a Mafian to act suspicious and then get hanged and then look innocent, casting suspicion on whoever lynched me.

...What? It's happened before.

[Wysp]

*yawn*
I'm here, I'm here.

I've been watching this go on...honestly I'm not too concerned how it ends, one way or another. I have no clues to who is Mafia, haha. @_@

...I'm probably gonna get lynched, aren't I?

---

VOTE COUNT

(3) Wysp - julienvonwolfe, Messiah, n107yuh

(2) NewAgeWarrior - purple princess, Excedrin
(1) n107yuh - XScorpion
(1) Messiah - Wysp

Not Voting: NewAgeWarrior, oramiuri

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch
DEADLINE: September 7, 2009 12:01 PM PST

[Wysp]

Haha, I can explain that too.

I'm lurking because I'm expecting to get lynched and I don't see a point in sitting around here spectating, and also I'm preparing to orchestrate a war on an RPG forum that I participate in. In addition, I'm getting ready for college.

It's time-consuming.

[Wysp]

Well, I'd like to finish this game at least...XP I'll try to look up.

I'm not sure where to go from here, though. Suggestions?

[Wysp]

n107yuh--Lemme think...Well, it does match up with what I've seen the Mafia do before...But he could just be busy like me. However, since this is Mafia, I'm gonna go with Mafia--I don't think he's

that

busy. I can still show up and I'm fairly busy.

No lynch--No--that error has been amended on my part.

Summiest--Well, for an overall point of view, I'd probably guess me ( ), but I think n107yuh is scum...He's trying to slip under the radar a little too much.

[Wysp]

...Good point. Do you feel smart often, Wysp?

Yeah, I think that n107 is guilty. I'm not the most reliable judge, as you all can tell, but since everyone's put out their evidence, I think it's fairly convincing.

Vote: n107yuh

.

[Wysp]

I'm not sure what to make of this...Everything's going around in circles.

XScorp--

Because I highly doubt that any of my "evidence" matters to you since you were going to vote for me anyway.

regardless, it does matter if you give him evidence. If you did not give him evidence, then he would not have any grounds on which to accuse you. If he had accused you with no evidence, then he would be incredibly scummy-looking and suspicious. As it is, though, he has some fairly well-founded arguments. Personally, your general tone don't seem scummy, but all of NAW's evidence at once does cast suspicion on you.

[Wysp]

defended those actions with uncheckable meta, WIFOM, an OMGUS vote on me and appeal to emotion.

I can give you the links if you want them, the forum I played in is back up.

Declaring WIFOM does not make it less valid, IMO.

I never OMGUSed you, I just thought you looked suspicious for pounding someone relentlessly.

I did not AtE, I just said okay, if you wanna lynch me, fine.

The reason I lurked was because I thought I was gonna be hanged and because I've been busy with college and another forum.

Also, nice tameetcha, Adam! Maybe this will get more interesting...

[Wysp]

My logic was the same.

[Wysp]

So, if people get struck with an unforseen bout of "Life" and can't give warnings and have to stop posting so that they can solve a problem much more important than a Mafia game, you'd lynch them for being quiet? I might be a newcomer here, but that seems really odd. We usually targeted the suspicious ones.

Of course we had twenty people in each game and suspect lists for each crime.

[Wysp]

Sorry I haven't been around, last night and this morning have been busy.

JVW--Um, I know it might be common courtesy, but presuming he is scum due to his replace...I'm not sure I follow...Like it has been said before: if one person is scum, and then replaces out, doesn't that by default make him scum? I think that Adam is scum because his predecessor was scum...I could be wrong, but still.

FoS Adam

.

[Wysp]

The weird thing, as I see it, is that Wysp has FOSed adam after already voting for him. This seems quite redundant in the circumstances. Wsyp, on the site that you usually play at, how do people use FOSes?

No, we don't. You guys keep saying that FoS is supposed to put pressure on someone, so...*shrug*

[Wysp]

I get a vote for "not having a reason",

I would

hope

you had a reason. Going against what you've been doing so far is only, I think, suspicious if you just got converted to Cult or something the previous night. And since we know there's no Cult, then I don't see a problem with going against type. I'm not the best player here ( ) but that's what I think.

Also I'm getting annoyed at being told off for role-fishing, after NAW WAS THE ONE WHO MADE THE CLAIM. I can assure you that if no one had done any claims, I wouldn't have made any comments on roles.

Just because he made the claim doesn't mean you go after him. I mean, really, claiming villager, I think, is just as good as not claiming anything at all. I mean, really. Now, if the Doctor-claimed or Cop-claimed, then I would have jumped all over him ("Why the heck are you claiming before the Mafia even killed! That makes you a target!) And I woulda FoSed him--probably along with a pile of other players. If he were to roleclaim, Townie would be the only logical choice, since it has no special powers. (Obviously he could claim Mafia but there's no point in that.) So there's no point, I don't think, in prosecuting someone who hasn't made any substantial claim.

Ora--I'm gonna deviate a little from the beaten path and ask--if you are looking over the topic again, then why are you asking other people what they think? It just seems odd to me.

NAW--

...if you need to stick your neck out to help the town, then do it.

*flail*
That doesn't seem, really...uh, pro-town. we want to keep villagers

alive

, 'member? I don't really know what to say here, but the guy who introduced me to this site said "Follow your gut" and right now my gut is pointing at this line. It just seems so...out of place. O_o
No FoS, though. If I FoSed right now I'd be FoSing all over the place.
Oh, as a question: NAW, what's up with that post, encouraging people to stick their necks out for the village? That's like saying that "Go risk getting hanged!" It's not someone one does willingly, and of course you're risking telling it to the Doc/Cop. Of course, you could be talking to the Mafia, too, but that's not my point. It just seems strange. Care to explain?

I've looked over the last page and in hindsight, I would agree with what some people were saying: We would be wasting time on adam right now, since he's so stingy with info. I would like to have a bit more from him, since he's kinda a void, but until we get something, it's a waste of time.

Unvote

. I don't see anyone who's acting outstandingly scummy at the moment, so I'm just gonna watch...

[Wysp]

@ wysp
Getting town killed is not good. however, sitting on your ass doing or saying nothing out of fear of being lynched is just as bad. sometimes waiting for scum to slip is not enough. sometimes you need to make the scum slip up.
(no risk no reward, no pain no gain, ect...)

That is true...Makes sense to me. He might be the Doc/Cop, then it would be a bad idea to stick his neck out, but let's not rolehunt before the night has even started.

As far as I've seen, nobody's suggested "lets instantly lynch XScorpion because ey's made too many noob mistakes (or is obviously scum)."

They wanted to do that on me.

Okay, I'm gonna review the vote record and see if I can get everything straight:

(3) NewAgeWarrior - purple princess, Excedrin, XScorpion (Role claim, No-lynching opinions)
(3) XScorpion - NewAgeWarrior, julienvonwolfe, Messiah (OMGUS posts, bad reactions to pressure, lurkerhunting)
(1) oramiuri - adamrights (posting reminiscent of scum)

Do I have all of those reason correct?

[Wysp]

Messiah--Thanks.

flip town

flips scum

This means when your role is revealed if you die, right? I think so, I just wanna make sure.

Stupid terminology clash. <_<

I think it's odd that XScorp is getting all defensive when he's accused. XScorp, if you could respond to these three accusations, that would help majorly.
OMGUS posts
Bad reactions to pressure
Not scum-hunting

JVW's post maes me think of something--From what he had posted earlier, Adam thinks that Ori and I are scumbuddies. Now he's talking about "if Ori flips town, Xscorp might be scum". Which means that he thinks that Ori is town. My guess is that he thinks I'm scum, and he's trying to use Ori as bait to catch XScorp and make him look guilty. IMO, that is

really

weird. I don't think it's a scum indicator (yet), but it just seems such a roundabout way of scumhunting. O_o

[Wysp]

...Isn't the fourth spot near the end? At least in this size Mafia?

*shrug* Seems kinda shaky to me, but I'm not as experienced as some people here. And thanks for explaining that, I couldn't find it on the wiki.

[Wysp]

Because I was debating on who to vote for. Spend a night on it and you usually get the answer.

Vote: XScorpion

. He seems to be the most scummy out of the two, and considering that NAW has at least been putting effort toward scumhunting, X seems the most likely option.

Also, if you guys have a tie, do you go into overtime or do you just double-hang?

[Wysp]

Please note deadline lynch rules.

Ah, thanks. I've seen both versions, so I figured I'd ask to be sure.

[Wysp]

anything can happen in mafia

*grin*

With all due respect, I think that's a major understatement.

[Wysp]

Just a theory as to why Excedrin was killed. He was on to something as far as the 3rd vote theory goes, or he was on the right track to catching scum. Its not much, but its something.

So you think that Messiah is scum?

Here's my preliminary thoughts: If you look at the voting record, you'll notice that Excedrin was not voting for XScorp. He was voting for NAW. Now, there are two things that could have happened. Either NAW, being scum and being worried that someone was on to him, pegged the most active pursuer of a case against him and got lucky, or someone was talking when they shouldn't have. I mean, really. What are the odds of nailing the Doc on Night One?

But that aside

and #### you mafia.

And I quote from the Mafiascum Wiki article "Finding Mafia":

Gloating (any form of "complaining" about how bad the previous night was, how the doctor/cop was killed, etc.) Similar to "congratulating the doctor".

I've seen it a few times myself, but not that often. This would be more evidence to NAW being worried.
In addition, NAW was saying earlier that people need to stick their heads out for the Town if necessary. While he did brush that off, I think it's kinda odd that he say that.

As for PP, I would agree with Messiah--PP hasn't been very active. I don't think the jumping all over the place would be a scum-mark, since I've done the same thing a few times, but I'm having a hard time getting a read off of him/her. It's somewhat similar to what Adam's been doing, but Adam's been more active, just more enigmatic.

Overall, I think that NAW and/or PP might be scum.

[Wysp]

Do you think it's possible that they're partners?

I had considered that possibility, and in posts 2, 3, and 12 she seems pretty dead set against NAW. Now, that can either mean she's for real, or they're faking a fight. of course, that's a WIFOM, and I can't judge until we have more information either way. Personally, I think it might be likely.

[Wysp]

Well, NAW is SI, it's possible he's encountered this tactic before. I'm not sure, so I'll set aside that possibility until we have further confirmation.

Has anyone played a game with NAW before? If so, have you encountered that
"Bussing" tactic?

But yeah, NAW looks the most likely option. I'll refrain from voting until I see a few more reactions to the result. Something else might turn up.

[Wysp]

This site has an honour code that basically says that people will always follow the rules. Talking outside of the thread when your role doesn't permit it is against the rules, and because of this, vague accusations like you've made here will probably be considered offensive by the players involved.

Oh, okay. So they musta gotten lucky, then. My apologies to anyone I might have implicated.

And about bussing - I don't think that you could describe their interactions as 'bussing'. Bussing would imply that they actually led a lynch on each other, which hasn't happened. Admittedly, there is a high degree of distancing going on, which is probably what you meant.

Yeah, that's what I was talking about.

[Wysp]

No, it's simply a lack of information. I don't want to jump on a bandwagon unless I think it is logical. I am not the kind of person who votes right off the bat; I measure people's reactions.

[Wysp]

Surely you have plenty of information, given that we have a whole day's worth of posting to read through?

Well, I think that one of the most informative things to see people's initial reactions to the nightkill. I haven't seen them all, and I thought I might see something that would change my mind.

Also he posts this after a bit of pressure has been applied towards Oramiuri for the same thing.

I tend to be more active than Ora and I like to deal with questions before they pile up. It just gathers suspicion if you take time to respond.

[Wysp]

Your reply makes no sense to me.

I mean that you all are wondering about Ora because he hasn't responded yet. I saw that and I figured that it'd be beneficial to respond.

[Wysp]

Wysp has shown some newbie moves in this game imo, but posting about waiting to see what everybody else thinks before making his next move, espeically right after Oramiuri has been challenged for the same thing just seems a little odd to me.

I didn't want people to think I was lurking.

[Wysp]

XScorp was lynched and was a townie.

I'm also wondering if you can give us some insight into your predecessor's actions?

[Wysp]

No, it's not the hammer. There are two votes on him prior to yours.

The entire reason for my early claim was to try to hint to scum that I WAS a PR, so i would be NK (thus saving a PR from death), or even better, be protected by a doc who also thought i was a PR, thus negating a NK. I say this now because my plan clearly failed. I have never tried it before, and i don't think i will be doing it again, at least not without a better approach.

Um, not really. For all we know, the cop is still out there. Maybe the Mafia are trying to hunt him now. If you had left that ruse up, you might have saved the cop, but I guess not.

[Wysp]

@Julien/Wysp/NAW: Who is your #1 suspect at this point?

NAW. I'm keeping an eye on everyone else (stupid not to XP ) but NAW, so far, is looking the scummiest.

[Wysp]

@wysp
It's all WIFOM. I could still be lying can't I? Besides, most, if not all, of you believe I'm lying (which i said would happen right after i claimed :/). I took a chance and it didn't pay off.

Well, there's no better move (AFAIK) for a scum than to claim town. If they kill a role, then they claim they were trying to stop it.
Of course, there's no reason for a townie not to claim townie, especially if one was trying to attract an NK. So I guess this could really go either way.

I'm sensing crap logic here from PP, and that to me is more suspicious by far than anything else I've seen this game.

You're referring to her claiming that he's changed his reason for claiming and she can't tell why he tried to lightning-rod the NK, right?

Because now that you've drawn attention to it is pretty odd. O_o

[Wysp]

True, are you the roleblocker then?

Hmm. that's a good question. Might wanna ask him if he's stopped beating his wife, too. [/sarcasm]

PP, you're being unusually aggressive. Any particular reason why?

[Wysp]

Explanation for my earlier post if it confused anyone--From what I was reading, PP was asking "Are you the RB, or just a normal goon?"

Hope that helps.

[Wysp]

I'm torn between NAW and PP. NAW looks semi-guilty, but I think PP might be trying to frame him, judging by her overactive assault on him and, eventually, on those defending him. I think I've taken long enough to make a judgement.

Vote: purple princess

[Wysp]

I would agree; we should hold off

just in case

something happens.

[Wysp]

I think it's a bit early to be naming scumbuddies. 'least, that's what some people have said so far.

Although I do think it's a bit odd that everyone who's been replacing in (adamrights being the most recent) keep lurking. O_o

[Wysp]

I think it's really funny that people think that myself and adamrights are scum buddies because we haven't commented much on eachother,

Objection--It was RayFrost who postulated that, no one else. You're committing the logical fallacy of Hasty Generalization.

I think I have explained my case against NAW enough now, still on one wants to belive he is scum.

Honestly, I haven't seen your case against him very clearly. You think you could restate it in a few clear, concise sentences? That would help greatly.

[Wysp]

Nice to meet you, orphevs! I'll look forward to your thoughts.

BTW, as a side note, your name--that's a stylization of Orpheus, correct? Considering your avatar, it makes sense.

[Wysp]

I do beleive there is such a thing as beieng too town, as in scum trying too hard to fit in.

It's a WIFOM.

I would like to give others something to think about.

You seem more like you're trying to ward the Mafia off. Yeesh.

She does ask a lot of questions but this may be to deflect any questions being directed at her.

If she is asked a question, she answers it aptly. She doesn't deflect anything.

but that doesn't mean that noob's can't be scum

WIFOM, again. Noobishness is neither a town-tell or a scumtell.

Frankly, PP, I think this looks a little familiar. Just a tip: Don't give up just because it looks like you'll be lynched. Try to assess every reason people would like to hang you and address each one in turn, calmly, logically, and rationally.

[Wysp]

@Wysp: Is there anything in orphevs' post that stands out to you as something you would like to comment on?

Like Ray said, I thought it odd that he voted NAW instead of PP, but I think that the chances are good that he's simply got more NAW evidence in front of him than PP evidence. And it makes sense, since NAW does have some evidence against him.

In my opinion, he's either scum who's trying to frame PP, or a very unprioritized townie. Which one it is depends on what PP flips, in the event that we lynch her.

Also, where's JVW? I'd like to get his take on this.

[Wysp]

Well, that's true. Maybe it seems that NAW is one that should hang moreso than PP.

Like Messiah said, it's unlikely that they're both scum, because he'd be distancing is they were. Since most evidence points to PP being scum at the moment, I'm trying to think of why he would do that.

Personally, I think it's just botched priorities.

[Wysp]

Wysp, are you saying that you would prefer to lynch NAW rather than PP, and if so, why is your vote on PP?

I'm saying that it seems that Orph thinks that it would be more important to lynch NAW than PP.

If you feel it is based off of a priority issue, then do explain how that would influence you to read somebody that has seemed scummy to be leaning town with a chance of a strong town read pending on activity.

I admit, that doesn't make sense, so it's probably not priorities.

I'll go reread his read and see what sense I can make of it. ><

[Wysp]

After rereading his post, I think he might have formulated his opinions on PP after his opinions on NAW, and, based off of the fact that he thought NAW was scum, saw an ally and decided, "hm, this person came to the same conclusion as me. She seems logical." I could be wrong, but it seems the most likely event.

Orph, think you can clear up this fog a bit for us?

[Wysp]

Why do you feel the need to wait to lynch me? nothing has changed for days so what make a difference between now an then?

Because something might crop up. As the old adage goes, "don't jump the gun."

Personally, I agree with Orph, NAW does look really, really scummy. However, it just looks suspicious the way that PP was relentlessly prosecuting him, so that is what got my attention. If PP flips town, at least we'll know who to inspect next.

[Wysp]

FOS NAW

.

Just looks scummy to me. People have already stated the case, I don't see a reason to reiterate it yet again.

[Wysp]

<<

>>

^^;

I'm gonna go with my gut on this...

I'm the cop. My investigation last night was on NAW, and I got a guilty. RayFrost is innocent.

Vote: NAW

[Wysp]

Everyone in that slot lurked and did suspicious stuff. I wanted to confirm.

[Wysp]

also, ori was the only person in the slot before me >.>

Wait, what? Well I botched that. I thought you replaced adam, but I guess I'm mistaken. *shrug*

Well, at least I know you're a townie, that never hurts.

I don't have much to say to NAW's claim. I was adjusting, I botched up because I wasn't expecting that kind of stuff, I managed to figure out the lay of the land. *shrug*

[Wysp]

I investigated adam.

Assuming I'm right about what breadcrumb means...
I did a few times, mostly non-emphasizing the lurker-suspiciousness. I saw XScorp lurkerhunting and I didn't know if that was standard procedure here, so I tried to steer the game away from adam by focusing on others.

[Wysp]

Yeah. I thought that Ray was his replacement. That was my error.

[Wysp]

I already did. Adam, the night that Excedrin died. Which, if I recall correctly, was N1.

Now, please give your defense for yourself. An ad hominem attack only works aggressively; just because I'm accusing you doesn't mean you should drop your defense and attack me.

Defend yourself, don't just attack me. I've explained myself, now you explain yourself. You have scum marked all over you, and as soon as I claim cop you want me lynched. That doesn't sound townie to me.

[Wysp]

Also, the vote record for that lynch was:

[quote](5) XScorpion - NewAgeWarrior, julienvonwolfe, Messiah, Wysp, XScorpion
(2) NewAgeWarrior - purple princess, Excedrin
(1) oramiuri -

adamrights

[/qupte]

So yes, Adam was around then.

[Wysp]

...Point. I hadn't considered that. The only fake-claim I'm familiar with is the townie claim. So yes, that would be a null tell.

Seconded with RayFrost above. I'd like to see some evidence.

[Wysp]

It's hard to keep track. I coulda sworn that Ray was replacing Adam, but I was wrong.

Also, that's an appeal to emotion. "Oh, too bad, lynch me and the town loses." People will say, "I don't want to lose, so I won't lynch him." The scum gets off the hook, people die, mafia wins.

[Wysp]

As i said before, this is bad for the town.

I was referring to that.

I learned it the hard way earlier in the game: every little comment counts.

[Wysp]

Yes, that was my error. I had a few RL issues pop up and I never bothered to amend myself because I thought I was right. Regardless, I'd like to see the others' thoughts on this development.

[Wysp]

Well, if you have to choose who to believe, then you can check the record. I was merely confirming a popular theory. I noticed that he was quite a figure of suspicion during the last day and I therefore investigated him. *shrug* I wanted to make sure it wasn't a scummy-acting townie so we could avoid a potential mislynch.

[Wysp]

Yes, that was a slip on my part but I got lucky...XP

Any idea who the other scum was? I'd like to hear your accusations.

[Wysp]

Oh, and also, I was telling the truth about playing in another forum. We're a buttload more informal and we like to play loose and fast with the rules.

[Wysp]

Yes, he was quite good. The replaces were really weird...do you guys do that normally?

[Wysp]

Good game to you ask well. Messiah gave me a run for my money at the start...I hadn't expected anything so intense. XP

And I'll make sure not to make the same mistake when I play town.

[Wysp]

Naw, I saw her playing another game a few weeks ago.