Newbie 827 - Store Katana (Scum Win!)

[XScorpion]

I have a feeling that n107 is just gonna get replaced and then I'm going to have to really think about who I should vote for...

FoS:XScorpion

So your not really thinking about who you are voting for?

To me, after reading that post, you give me an impression that you are going for the "safe" votes and attacking lurkers, so you don't have to put yourself out there. This, to me, is VERY scummy.

Does anyone else get this impression, or is it just me?

I notice you haven't even placed any votes at all yet, or done anything more than a finger of suspicion. To me, you give me an impression that you are "saving" your votes so you don't have to put yourself out there. This, to me, is VERY scummy. See what I did there?

---

VOTE COUNT

(3) Wysp - julienvonwolfe, Messiah, n107yuh

(3) n107yuh - XScorpion, oramiuri, Wysp

(2) NewAgeWarrior - purple princess, Excedrin

Not Voting: NewAgeWarrior

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch
DEADLINE: September 7, 2009 12:01 PM PST

[XScorpion]

I apologize for not trying to play this like a game of chess and looking multiple turns ahead...last time I checked, we still don't have sufficient evidence to suggest anyone is scum, so I don't see why I should plan what order I want to lynch everyone else in

we're not asking you to look 10 moves ahead, all we asked was simply who is your #2 pick
And are you suggesting that 6 pages in, noone has said anything scummy?

and what is sufficent evidence? the scum is not going to jump right out and tell yo who they are, you need to poke and prod and analyze reactions and use that as your evidence.

Yes, maybe what I'm doing looks scummy to you, but if he IS the mafia, then we'll be throwing the game away if we leave him be. I don't want to take that risk.

but your willing to risk he fact that he is probably just a noob townie? In my

limited experience

, lurkers (especily in small games and noob games) are just noobs or very busy.

Reminding everyone again that NAW is SE, unlike most of us.

Lurkers like n107 don't have a place in this game...did you not notice how he just jumped on the biggest bandwagon with no explanation at all? What happens down the road when 2 mafia vote for someone, give what seems to be convincing arguments, and the lurker just throws down a hammer vote without explanation or consideration. In some ways, I consider n107 to be a liability.

Do I consider myself "experienced" enough to distinguish between scum and noob? Not even. Do I know that there is someone who deserves my vote right now? yes. Reactions, pokes and prods don't always work...the optimal mafia member will respond just like a normal townsperson, won't make mistakes, and will blend in, and I'd be arrogant to think that I could tell scum from noob better than anyone else. I believe I'm standing out quite well by being one of the few people who is actually interested in going and lynching someone who (I think) deserves to be lynched.

[Messiah]

I'm interested in how you've decided this? Do you actually consider me a lurker?

I don't think you're lurking, no. All your posts up to that point were either about lynching lurkers or rolefishing, neither of which are pro-town contributions.

last time I checked, we still don't have sufficient evidence to suggest anyone is scum

You don't think anyone has done anything scummy during the entire game so far?

I believe I'm standing out quite well by being one of the few people who is actually interested in going and lynching someone who (I think) deserves to be lynched

Do you feel lurking is always a scum-tell?

[XScorpion]

I'm interested in how you've decided this? Do you actually consider me a lurker?

I don't think you're lurking, no. All your posts up to that point were either about lynching lurkers or rolefishing, neither of which are pro-town contributions.

Granted, but I don't see why you consider my thoughts on NAW as role-fishing when he was the one who had already made a claim.

I believe I'm standing out quite well by being one of the few people who is actually interested in going and lynching someone who (I think) deserves to be lynched

Do you feel lurking is always a scum-tell?

That would obviously be an unrealistic claim. Normally I would have changed my vote by now, but not only has n107 been lurking, but his last post suggests that he really doesn't plan on contributing anything useful to the town. I don't see the downside to voting out someone who votes without reason or hesitation, and plans to simply hide and not discuss things.

last time I checked, we still don't have sufficient evidence to suggest anyone is scum

You don't think anyone has done anything scummy during the entire game so far?

Obviously people have done "scummy" things, but up to this point, everyone seems to be buying the "noob" excuse. The people who have been interrogated so far for their actions (Wysp, NAW, n107) have been defended by what I call the "noob card": people have decided not to lynch them immediately by using their inexperience as an excuse to explain their scummy behaviour. If this was a game of robot players, the first person to do something "scummy" would be immediately lynched. Obviously it isn't, so it comes down to everyone trying to distinguish between what is a scumtell and what is someone being stupid.

I find it ironic that that both Wysp ("I'm confused") and NAW ("sorry i didn't get it") have played the "noob card", although both of them have played more than one game. On the other hand, when I'm confronted by people claiming that my anti-lurker stance is scummy, I have yet to offer the "don't blame me I don't know any better" defense, even though this is my first game ever.

[Messiah]

Well, I don't actually think very many people are buying the newb excuse as Wysp/NAW have a combined 6/9 votes.

@NAW: I'm curious; why haven't you placed a vote on anyone yet? Do you not think anyone has done anything scummy yet?

[Messiah]

EBWODP: Wysp/NAW have 5/9 of the votes, not 6.

[julienvonwolfe]

Well, I don't actually think very many people are buying the newb excuse as Wysp/NAW have a combined 6/9 votes.

@NAW: I'm curious; why haven't you placed a vote on anyone yet? Do you not think anyone has done anything scummy yet?

I will add that there's no reason for somebody not to have their vote on somebody else at all times, at least on Day One. Indeed, there are many reasons why everybody voting is a good idea, provided that this doesn't lead to a quicklynch.

[XScorpion]

They may have the most votes, but neither of them are at L-1, and both would be at L-2 if not for n107's unjustified vote. No one wants to lynch yet because people are afraid that they actually are newbs and not scum, and then get blamed for hammering.

[NewAgeWarrior]

@NAW: I'm curious; why haven't you placed a vote on anyone yet? Do you not think anyone has done anything scummy yet?

I do belive some people have done scummy, such as wysp, but in wysp case i belived that he is just being noob over scum. from then i had a hard time deciding untill xscorpion posted. i FoS instead of voted because i wanted to see his reaction to my questions and accusations, neither of which were satisfactory to me. In hind-sight a vote would not have hurt, but i also didnt want to seem as if i was trying to bandwagon him.

and NAW ("sorry i didn't get it") have played the "noob card"

since when is misunderstanding what someone has said pulling a noob card? i never once said "zomg im newb thats why i didnt get it". i simply had a misunderstanding, and that happens to the best of us. I even said i simply misinterpreted what you had meant, and apologized. with your 2 most recent posts, you seem to be trying to twist my words back on me, which is basicly you going OMGUS.

Reminding everyone again that NAW is SE, unlike most of us.

Jesus, you didnt even try to hid the fact that you are deflecting.

all the poking and prodding and waiting to place my vote comes for moments like these xscorpion.

Vote: Xscorpion

[XScorpion]

@NAW: I'm curious; why haven't you placed a vote on anyone yet? Do you not think anyone has done anything scummy yet?

I do belive some people have done scummy, such as wysp, but in wysp case i belived that he is just being noob over scum. from then i had a hard time deciding untill xscorpion posted. i FoS instead of voted because i wanted to see his reaction to my questions and accusations, neither of which were satisfactory to me. In hind-sight a vote would not have hurt, but i also didnt want to seem as if i was trying to

bandwagon

him.

Bandwagon me by yourself...of course...
So what you're saying is that you want to vote me because you think I'm not a noob and Wysp is?

and NAW ("sorry i didn't get it") have played the "noob card"

since when is misunderstanding what someone has said pulling a noob card? i never once said "zomg im newb thats why i didnt get it". i simply had a misunderstanding, and that happens to the best of us. I even said i simply misinterpreted what you had meant, and apologized. with your 2 most recent posts, you seem to be trying to twist my words back on me, which is basicly you going OMGUS.

You've played this before. You're more experienced than I. You should not be making "misunderstandings" like suggesting no-lynches and role-claiming on the first page. I've never played a game before and even I know that those are foolish things to do.

Reminding everyone again that NAW is SE, unlike most of us.

Jesus, you didnt even try to hid the fact that you are deflecting.

all the poking and prodding and waiting to place my vote comes for moments like these xscorpion.

Vote: Xscorpion

I'm not particularly surprised...you seemed to be gunning for me as soon as you tried to insinuate to other people that I was suspicious. Basically it seems as though you've been waiting for an excuse to vote for me without making other people suspicious.

[Tenchi]

You are not sure, and you try to ask questions... for you know in your gut that there is something to this place, the people around here and to what is happening. Some claim to have been locked in there for days, others say that they feel assaulted recently and that they could be in there for hours.

You are just not sure who to believe... and time is running out.

[NewAgeWarrior]

Bandwagon me by yourself...of course...

To be more accurate, I didn't want to seem as if I were starting a bandwagon on you. Besides, why vote when you got this worked up over an FoS anyway.

So what you're saying is that you want to vote me because you think I'm not a noob and Wysp is?

I had a weird feeling from you after a re-read. There was no evidence to support it. So I pretty much left it alone until now. I'm voting for you now because
1) You reacted quite a bit to a simple FoS.
2) Most of your post at me reek of OMGUS
3) I feel as if you are trying to twist my own words back on me.

You've played this before. You're more experienced than I. You should not be making "misunderstandings" like suggesting no-lynches and role-claiming on the first page. I've never played a game before and even I know that those are foolish things to do.

I wont deny that claiming was unorthodox (to say the least, but trust me, I had my reasons to do so). I'll even agree that you are validated in saying those things.

None of this has anything to do with the fact that I misunderstood something. I'm not perfect. I made a mistake. If you want to use this as a scum tell against me, go ahead.

I'm not particularly surprised...you seemed to be gunning for me as soon as you tried to insinuate to other people that I was suspicious. Basically it seems as though you've been waiting for an excuse to vote for me without making other people suspicious.

Would you like to post some form of evidence in regards to this? Or is this just more OMGUS?

My progression into why I started to believe you are scum goes as follows.

I have a feeling that n107 is just gonna get replaced and then I'm going to have to really think about who I should vote for...

Your basically saying you don't think about who you should be voting for. I wasn't the only one to think this. So I FoSed you.

I apologize for not trying to play this like a game of chess and looking multiple turns ahead...last time I checked, we still don't have sufficient evidence to suggest anyone is scum, so I don't see why I should plan what order I want to lynch everyone else in

we're not asking you to look 10 moves ahead, all we asked was simply who is your #2 pick
And are you suggesting that 6 pages in, noone has said anything scummy?

and what is sufficent evidence? the scum is not going to jump right out and tell yo who they are, you need to poke and prod and analyze reactions and use that as your evidence.

I would still like to hear what would be sufficient evidence to you.
If, right here, you had simply said who you think was #2 and why (other than going from 1 lurker to another), the matter probably would have ended right there for me.

Instead...

I notice you haven't even placed any votes at all yet, or done anything more than a finger of suspicion. To me, you give me an impression that you are "saving" your votes so you don't have to put yourself out there. This, to me, is VERY scummy.

See what I did there?

You could have answered the questions that I and Messiah asked, but you chose to make yourself out to be my victim. (anti-productive to say the least)

From then on, its pretty evident what other posts you made that bothered me.

Basically it seems as though you've been waiting for an excuse to vote for me without making other people suspicious.

If you honestly thought this, why would you give me so much evidence against you?

[XScorpion]

If you honestly thought this, why would you give me so much evidence against you?

Because I highly doubt that any of my "evidence" matters to you since you were going to vote for me anyway. My posts bother you? Too bad. I find it ironic that you're voting on me since I wouldn't say who I think was #2 and why, when you're been wishy-washy about placing your vote all game. You have taken this long just to decide your

first

vote...why are you all over me for not thinking ahead? By your own logic, you should be voting for yourself.

Would you like to post some form of evidence in regards to this? Or is this just more OMGUS?

I also have a weird vibe at Xscorpion. I'm not sure why, I just do.

Does anyone else get this impression, or is it just me?

[NewAgeWarrior]

Because I highly doubt that any of my "evidence" matters to you since you were going to vote for me anyway. My posts bother you? Too bad.

Very mature. And helpful.

I find it ironic that you're voting on me since I wouldn't say who I think was #2 and why

No, I FoSed you because you stated that you don't think about who you vote for. I voted for you after all the OMGUS that followed, instead of logically explaining what you had meant.

You have taken this long just to decide your first vote...why are you all over me for not thinking ahead?

I fail to see the correlation.

I'm not particularly surprised...you seemed to be gunning for me as soon as you tried to insinuate to other people that I was suspicious. Basically it seems as though you've been waiting for an excuse to vote for me without making other people suspicious.

Would you like to post some form of evidence in regards to this?

Apparently not.

What are you implying by your last 3 quote of me in your last post?

Post 161 was a long post, all in regards to you, and this is all you can reply with?

I really would like to hear everyone's opinion on this matter.

[Wysp]

I'm not sure what to make of this...Everything's going around in circles.

XScorp--

Because I highly doubt that any of my "evidence" matters to you since you were going to vote for me anyway.

regardless, it does matter if you give him evidence. If you did not give him evidence, then he would not have any grounds on which to accuse you. If he had accused you with no evidence, then he would be incredibly scummy-looking and suspicious. As it is, though, he has some fairly well-founded arguments. Personally, your general tone don't seem scummy, but all of NAW's evidence at once does cast suspicion on you.

[purple princess]

I agree that N107 is looking scummy right now.

In my limited experience, lurkers (especily in small games and noob games) are just noobs or very busy.

This seems very contradictory form NAW imo.

I have a feeling that n107 is just gonna get replaced and then I'm going to have to really think about who I should vote for...

FoS:XScorpion
So your not really thinking about who you are voting for?

I see nothing wrong with this statment and it would have looked ok if NAW hadn't have made this earlier post.

I also have a weird vibe at Xscorpion. I'm not sure why, I just do.

So I concur that you you accuse XScorpion of doing the same as you, so this makes you look even more scummy to me. Also I am unsure why you only voted for someone after Messiah had asked why you hadn't voted for anyone, were you trying to look for a safe bandwaggon to join without yourself being noticed?

[NewAgeWarrior]

This seems very contradictory form NAW imo.

Try to understand the context in which I meant them. In the first post, I was mentioning his lurking and then him coming out only vote wysp with no explination. This is scummy.

In the second quote I am referring to lurkers in general, people who sit idly by and dont contribute or give hallow posts. N107 was like this untill he posted what he did. I didn't vote for him because people who post like this are pretty much always replaced, so there is no real point.

So I concur that you you accuse XScorpion of doing the same as you, so this makes you look even more scummy to me. Also I am unsure why you only voted for someone after Messiah had asked why you hadn't voted for anyone, were you trying to look for a safe bandwaggon to join without yourself being noticed?

I already explained why I hadn't been voting. Messiah's comment was coincidental. If he hadn't said anything, I would have voted for him anyway.

I didn't vote for xscorpion because he was voting for lurkers.

I voted for him because he said something that gave me a bad feeling. I FoS (not even voted) him and put pressure on him to see his reactions. Pretty much every reaction/defense was OMGUS.

I see nothing wrong with this statment

Do you agree with what I said in that post? Do you think that Xscorpion's statement about him not thinking about his vote sounded suspicious in any way? If no, please explain why.

it would have looked ok if NAW hadn't have made this earlier post.

I had a vibe from Xscorpion. I had no intention of focusing him, but then he posted

I have a feeling that n107 is just gonna get replaced and then I'm going to have to really think about who I should vote for...

This only strengthened my feeling, so I put some pressure on, to see how he reacted. He reacted bad in my opinion. So I voted for him.

I was trying to find scum through reaction fishing. Pretty basic stuff, really. Its the whole reason early bandwagons exist (put on pressure, see how they react). It's also one of the best day 1 scum hunting methods.

To be more accurate, I didn't want to seem as if I were starting a bandwagon on you

Before you can say I'm contradicting myself, let me explain.
Bandwagons that have a reason, even if its small, are good to get reactions from players, and is a good pro-town bandwagon use to gather info.
Bandwagons that have no real reason (IE my gut feeling) can be used by scum to lynch a townie (usualy done in co-operation with the 2 scum).

So if I had tried to get a case going against him then, it would not have been helpful. It's not my fault that in the very next post he said something that caught my attention (and I'm willing to bet that I'm not the only one that statement seemed off to)

[oramiuri]

I have a feeling that n107 is just gonna get replaced and then I'm going to have to really think about who I should vote for...

FoS:XScorpion
So your not really thinking about who you are voting for?

I see nothing wrong with this statment and it would have looked ok if NAW hadn't have made this earlier post.

I also have a weird vibe at Xscorpion. I'm not sure why, I just do.

So I concur that you you accuse XScorpion of doing the same as you, so this makes you look even more scummy to me. Also I am unsure why you only voted for someone after Messiah had asked why you hadn't voted for anyone, were you trying to look for a safe bandwaggon to join without yourself being noticed?

I'm unsure of what your thesis is here. How do these two quotes relate? Please elaborate.

[Tenchi]

From this point on

adamrights

replaces n107yuh. Thanks, Adam!

[NewAgeWarrior]

Welcome adamrights!
Thanks for replacing.

[julienvonwolfe]

Maybe a bit of a tall order, but can you give us any insight on your predecessor's vote for Wysp?

[adamrights]

Hey guys...I power-read the whole thread before accepting and will have to take the time to carefully re-read over the entire thread...But, I have to drive to upstate NY tomorrow for a court date, so I probably won't be posting until late in the evening or early Friday.

I thank you for your welcoming, NAW...but I'm

FoS

on you...I was actually going to vote you as well, but I don't want to give the opportunity for a quick hammer while I'm gone for the day.

UNVOTE

[Excedrin]

julienvonwolfe, Messiah, why are you still voting for Wysp? Do you think he's more scummy than anything else that's going on in the game so far?

Hi, adamrights, thanks for replacing.

[julienvonwolfe]

There's two reasons why I'm still voting for Wysp:

1) I don't like to change my vote too often. Votes lose their meaning if they hop around too much.

2) I must confess, I've not been keeping up as well as I should; I'm coming up to a mid-term break and there's lots of assignments for me to do. However, I will be done by Saturday and will do a major re-read that weekend.

[julienvonwolfe]

Oh, and adam, how much mafia have you played before? You seem to know what you're doing.