Newbie 827 - Store Katana (Scum Win!)

[Wysp]

Wysp has shown some newbie moves in this game imo, but posting about waiting to see what everybody else thinks before making his next move, espeically right after Oramiuri has been challenged for the same thing just seems a little odd to me.

I didn't want people to think I was lurking.

[NewAgeWarrior]

You didn't express suspicion of anyone until you FOS'd XScorpion, and haven't expressed any suspicions since then. As for "following your vote", at no point in my post did I say your reasons for voting him were scummy. In fact, I agreed with them.

Your right, i had not expressed any real suspicions at anyone. I explained why but i'll do it again. At the time, thoughout most of the game, no one but wysp really had done anything scummy, and to me it was obvious that it was noob behavior and not scum. The only other people to suspect were lurkers and people who have all been replaced, like i said would happen as well, so i was pretty much at a loss as to who to suspect.

At the time of your FOS did you feel XScorpion was worthy of a vote?

At the time I was on the fence about it. Since at that time i didn't have much/any evidence, i erred on the side of caution and FoSed first.

[RayFrost]

Okay, I got lazy and put it off and now I've only read pages 10-current

Here is a list of scummy to not scummy for each player (some info based off of memory, since I began reading this game a looong time ago and still remember some tid bits).

My list goes like this: scummy people, neutral people, townish people.

the top of scummy people is scummiest, bottom of it is least scummmy and only a little bit scummier than the top neutral, top neutral is leaning scummy, bottom is leaning town, middle is completely neutral, top town is only a little more towny than leaning town, bottom is the (joking/serious) confirmed town of me.

The above is true in all times I do it

unless specifically stated otherwise

Now, having said that... I'll post this, do a few things, then type up and post my list.

Don't hold your breath... it'll take a few minutes to do the "few things"

[RayFrost]

Okay, the list...

Oh, before the list...

I find third vote theory to be a null tell, much like most tells in the wiki. For one, it is well known, meaning people would likely avoid it... oh noes, already heading into WIFOM... that is why it should be null tell, not scum tell

♣

scummy

♣

Tenchi - the obv. scum. He's obviously the one behind it all!

adamrights - low content posts, only two real contentful ones... lurking is bad, and (IIRC) his predecessor wasn't all that pro-town either. continues with wysp suspicion after it ran out of steam is nice and all... but he doesn't have what could be considered a case. (note, I am reading in ISO) on the wysp/ora buddy thing... there is also no reason that julien couldn't be buddies with NAW, or PP couldn't be buddies with wysp, or I could be buddies with adamrights... see how that argument isn't all that good? poor arguments, low content, low posts = scummiest

NAW - voting no lynch when you've been here for

two years

is illogical. I understand if you've taken a break, but voting no lynch is commonly known to be anti-town that early in the game. claiming early is also anti-town. if there are PRs, it limits scum's list of people that could be the PR. let's work under the assumption that NAW is telling the truth... this would mean that NAW has just helped narrow scum's list of potential PRs and increased the chance of a PR NK (oh, wait... a PR NK happened... point made). a counter balance to this is his willingness to not suspect people that are posting content and give them the benefit of the doubt early in the game... but that's just about it.

have to do the dishes, will post the rest (continuing with scummy reads) next post

[RayFrost]

PP - constantly hounding NAW without really considering other scummy things, passing multiple things off as "newbie moves" and the like makes her slightly suspicious, but not much.

♣

neutral

♣

XScorp - lurker tunnel vision, but that is countered by activity and some scum hunting

Julien - nice, long posts are great and all, but some of said posts are game theory-related, not actually completely relevant to the game

Wysp - consistent scum hunting and stuff, good man, good man

♣

townish

♣

Messiagh - [cue blatant buddying ] scum hunting <3 guud posting, etc, etc, blah, bha, blah.... just don't like teh PBPA style, but eh, it's scum hunting! yays!

seriously though, has been scum hunting and stuff, so good job you are townish on my list


me - obv. town. 'nuff said



if any of you have any questions / refutations / etc, do direct them to me, and I will reply to them when I come back. As it is, I must head off to sleep... tomorrow is one of my finals

[Wysp]

XScorp was lynched and was a townie.

I'm also wondering if you can give us some insight into your predecessor's actions?

[RayFrost]

XScorp was lynched and was a townie.

I'm also wondering if you can give us some insight into your predecessor's actions?

ora - lurker glad to replace lurker



as it is, I don't approve of ora's play. plain and simple.

[NewAgeWarrior]

I never voted for a no-lynch, and to say ive been here for 2 years is unfair. I don't even remeber my old screenname, let alone all the scumtells and null-tells I used to know.

As far as your argument goes, most people thought that my claim made me more likely to be scum or a PR. your suggesting the opposite. If you are assuming that I am telling the truth about being a townie, your still suggesting I'm scum makes no sense. If you think I'm lying, then i haven't told you anything at all.

The entire reason for my early claim was to try to hint to scum that I WAS a PR, so i would be NK (thus saving a PR from death), or even better, be protected by a doc who also thought i was a PR, thus negating a NK. I say this now because my plan clearly failed. I have never tried it before, and i don't think i will be doing it again, at least not without a better approach.

[RayFrost]

Misread your join time date for the 2 years >.< mixed you up with somebody else on that... though you did admit that you were around a while ago.

As it is, I am saying that you actually being a townie was still anti-town, not that you are scum. Your logic on the early claim means you thought scum would go into WIFOM and some how end up with thinking they should NK you... that seems illogical.

As it is, I don't think it'd be a good idea to lynch you today, since there is another player that is scummier.

As it is, I forgot to vote.

As it is,

vote: adamrights

[purple princess]

@ NAW, Why have you changed you reason for your early town claim? This has scum written all over it to me. I do not see your logic in your recent post as to why you wanted to be nk to save a pr. You wouldn't even know for sure that we had power roles in this game untill Excedrin was killed and revealed to be a doctor. In your early posts you say that we would be stupid to belive your claim so early on in the game and it was done more to seem freindly than anything else, but in your later post you say that you set this whole thing up to be night killed and save a power role. Seems like you want to appear as being super townie and be killed to save others. To be honest I don't beleive thi


post 40

Well, to be honest, who wouldn't claim vanillia townie at this point in the game, its not like i claimed cop, doc or scum, and if i am any of those, I'd wouldn't say I'm one of those untill im about to die. I don't really expect anyone to belive my claim at this stage of the game, and anyone who believes me is a little too gullible anyway. Simply put, if i asked everyone to roleclaim right now, they would all say townie.

post 44

And as i mentioned above, I don't expect anybody to believe my claim (just like how you don't), and my claim is utterly useless anyway. It was more of a friendly comment to the person who voted for me

.

post 307

The entire reason for my early claim was to try to hint to scum that I WAS a PR, so i would be NK (thus saving a PR from death), or even better, be protected by a doc who also thought i was a PR, thus negating a NK. I say this now because my plan clearly failed. I have never tried it before, and i don't think i will be doing it again, at least not without a better approach.

[RayFrost]

++scum points for NAW, congratulations... you've won first prize in scumminess! =/

I'd vote if I new what the vote count was (so I could tell if it wasn't the hammer).

I'll settle for a

I will vote you if it isn't the hammer oS

[Wysp]

No, it's not the hammer. There are two votes on him prior to yours.

The entire reason for my early claim was to try to hint to scum that I WAS a PR, so i would be NK (thus saving a PR from death), or even better, be protected by a doc who also thought i was a PR, thus negating a NK. I say this now because my plan clearly failed. I have never tried it before, and i don't think i will be doing it again, at least not without a better approach.

Um, not really. For all we know, the cop is still out there. Maybe the Mafia are trying to hunt him now. If you had left that ruse up, you might have saved the cop, but I guess not.

[Messiah]

The entire reason for my early claim was to try to hint to scum that I WAS a PR, so i would be NK (thus saving a PR from death), or even better, be protected by a doc who also thought i was a PR, thus negating a NK. I say this now because my plan clearly failed.

Seriously? I wanted to say that this might be believable if you had given this reason immediately, but I'm not sure it would have been. It doesn't even make sense. Why would the scum/doctor want to target your for claiming Vanilla? Why did you not say this at some point before?

@Julien/Wysp/NAW: Who is your #1 suspect at this point?

[RayFrost]

vote: NewAgeWarrior

thanks for the info, wysp.

off to sleep now.

[Messiah]

I'm going to have limited access until sometime on Friday but I'll still be able to post from my phone.

[adamrights]

I'm sorry guys, got bogged down with my school semester beginning. I probably should have asked for a replacement.

I also was pissed at XScorpion's move, that was ridiculous that we did not get to see who would hammer. I need to go read up...will see if I can make a post late tonight or tomorrow.

[Wysp]

@Julien/Wysp/NAW: Who is your #1 suspect at this point?

NAW. I'm keeping an eye on everyone else (stupid not to XP ) but NAW, so far, is looking the scummiest.

[julienvonwolfe]

@ NAW, Why have you changed you reason for your early town claim? This has scum written all over it to me. I do not see your logic in your recent post as to why you wanted to be nk to save a pr. You wouldn't even know for sure that we had power roles in this game untill Excedrin was killed and revealed to be a doctor. In your early posts you say that we would be stupid to belive your claim so early on in the game and it was done more to seem freindly than anything else, but in your later post you say that you set this whole thing up to be night killed and save a power role. Seems like you want to appear as being super townie and be killed to save others. To be honest I don't beleive thi


post 40

Well, to be honest, who wouldn't claim vanillia townie at this point in the game, its not like i claimed cop, doc or scum, and if i am any of those, I'd wouldn't say I'm one of those untill im about to die. I don't really expect anyone to belive my claim at this stage of the game, and anyone who believes me is a little too gullible anyway. Simply put, if i asked everyone to roleclaim right now, they would all say townie.

post 44

And as i mentioned above, I don't expect anybody to believe my claim (just like how you don't), and my claim is utterly useless anyway. It was more of a friendly comment to the person who voted for me

.

post 307

The entire reason for my early claim was to try to hint to scum that I WAS a PR, so i would be NK (thus saving a PR from death), or even better, be protected by a doc who also thought i was a PR, thus negating a NK. I say this now because my plan clearly failed. I have never tried it before, and i don't think i will be doing it again, at least not without a better approach.

You know, I don't actually see the problem here. Vanilla townies are less useful to the town than power roles. Power roles must stay in the game at all costs from the point of any vanilla. A vanilla being nightkilled means that the power role(s) are alive to work their magic for one night longer. That's pro-town. I was nightkilled on night two of one newbie game when I was a vanilla townie because the scum thought that I might've been a power-role. I was later congratulated by the mod for acting as a lightening-rod, despite it being all accidental on my part. (Story of my life, I guess )

And, of course, if NAW had stated this logic yesterday, it might not have been as effective. I think it would have actually just created even more WIFOM, which is pro-town when it's being done to the scum. But I can understand his reasons for not stating it and it fits in with my gut read of NAW.

I don't find NAW's earlier posts 'explaining' his claim to be inconsistent with his later explanation above, and to be honest, I'm having trouble seeing how PP sees it as a change in his reasoning. Also, we certainly didn't know at that stage if there were any power-roles, but there was a 75% chance of there being at least one.

I'm sensing crap logic here from PP, and that to me is more suspicious by far than anything else I've seen this game.

Vote: Purple Princess

I'm sorry guys, got bogged down with my school semester beginning. I probably should have asked for a replacement.

I also was pissed at XScorpion's move, that was ridiculous that we did not get to see who would hammer. I need to go read up...will see if I can make a post late tonight or tomorrow.

I don't think that there would have been a hammer. With the deadline rules, it looked like XScorpion would be lynched anyway, majority or no majority.

[RayFrost]

Hey Julien...

do you intend to respond to any bit of my player reads?

disagreement or otherwise would be nice.

[julienvonwolfe]

I realise that I left a bit out of my vote for Purple Princess. NAW's execution of the strategy (drawing the nightkill) was fairly horrible. But I don't think it's scummy to claim vanilla townie, just anti-town. After all, if a mafioso claims townie, how does that help them discover power roles?

A more pro-town way of trying to draw the nightkill is to subtly breadcrumb in such a manner that the person who really has the role you're breadcrumbing doesn't try to get you lynched. This is how it happened in the newbie game I mentioned.

---

Hey Julien...

do you intend to respond to any bit of my player reads?

disagreement or otherwise would be nice.

It's a bad idea to list all of your reads since that allows scum to see easily who the town views as the most 'townie' player. In theory they will then nightkill this player as they're unlikely to be lynched.

Your views on Adamrights I don't really understand. Can you clarify?

You criticise me for having posts with game theory - fair enough. But in my defense I must fill my role as IC as well as a player.

If you think that Wysp has been consistently scum-hunting, why do you only have a 'neutral' read on him?

[RayFrost]

It's a bad idea to list all of your reads since that allows scum to see easily who the town views as the most 'townie' player. In theory they will then nightkill this player as they're unlikely to be lynched.

Your views on Adamrights I don't really understand. Can you clarify?

You criticise me for having posts with game theory - fair enough. But in my defense I must fill my role as IC as well as a player.

If you think that Wysp has been consistently scum-hunting, why do you only have a 'neutral' read on him?

Habit makes me list my reads...

Wysp is in the "neutral" area but he's leaning town in my read. I just like mesiah more

Adamrights:

his logic on the wysp case isn't that great, and the whole ora/wysp scum buddy idea is far fetched, and his response to being asked is "there is no reason they couldn't be." This response isn't exactly the most pro-town... or helpful... or clear. I showed how ridiculous that kind of logic was by making up random pairings and adding "there is no reason that so-and-so couldn't be buddies with..."

Poor case, far fetched ideas, continued pushing of said case without much support and not changed gears even with what is (imo) a scummier player currently active (NAW)... seems like he is deliberately ignoring NAW, but that might just be me.

[NewAgeWarrior]

My reason never changed. Of course i never said it immideatly, that would defeat the point. How could you not understand that?

I thought about stating why I did it in the first.

@wysp
It's all WIFOM. I could still be lying can't I? Besides, most, if not all, of you believe I'm lying (which i said would happen right after i claimed :/). I took a chance and it didn't pay off.

@ray
I played a few games quite a while ago, but gave up on it quickly due to time available.

Seriously? I wanted to say that this might be believable if you had given this reason immediately, but I'm not sure it would have been. It doesn't even make sense. Why would the scum/doctor want to target your for claiming Vanilla? Why did you not say this at some point before?

Why would i give this reason immideatly? thats totally self defeating.
It does make sense. The mafia knows I'm not mafia, so trying to pretend i was vanillia, they may have suspected that i was a power pole. even if not, they tend to not have anything to go off of day 1 as to whom a powerrole is, so it may just appeal to them enough to see. Also, if we had a Doc, he has a hard time telling who to protect, and if he also thinks that i am a PR, we can negate a NK, but I didn't honestly belive that would happen, it was just the shadow of a hope. So if a town member will die at night, why not make it a non-power role?

@Julien/Wysp/NAW: Who is your #1 suspect at this point?

Well, adamrights need to contribute. At this stage it is inexcusable. i know he posted saying he will catch up, but there is only 13 pages.
I always keep a place in my mind that the IC is playing a very clever scum, and JVW is no exeption.
PP has been on my case since the begining, and really hasn't helped a whole lot outside of targeting me. This suspion may be personal annoyance though. Also, i have player with PP before, and her playstyle has changed from that game 9she was cop)
At this point, i would put Adamrights as my #1, with a close PP second.

@rayfrost
You seem to follow PP opinon quite easily, without your own train of thought as to why. Do i seem like a nice and safe bandwagon to you, or do you really think im lying?

You wouldn't even know for sure that we had power roles in this game untill Excedrin was killed and revealed to be a doctor.

This is a moot point. The scum wouldn't either unless they had a roleblocker.

[RayFrost]

I already found you scummy.

Her point made sense, thus making you slightly scummier than before.

You've explained it, thus...

unvote, vote: adamrights

(you is plural as in both julien and NAW)

I saw a contradiction, and, to be honest, I applied pressure >.> I don't know if you are lying, thus I must see your reaction. You kept your cool... I like it when people keep their cool under pressure. Thus, I return to adamrights

I don't really care about "nice" or "safe" when it comes to voting: if I think you are scum more than anybody else, you

will

have my vote. Either that or I'm pressuring you in order to get a better read.

[Wysp]

@wysp
It's all WIFOM. I could still be lying can't I? Besides, most, if not all, of you believe I'm lying (which i said would happen right after i claimed :/). I took a chance and it didn't pay off.

Well, there's no better move (AFAIK) for a scum than to claim town. If they kill a role, then they claim they were trying to stop it.
Of course, there's no reason for a townie not to claim townie, especially if one was trying to attract an NK. So I guess this could really go either way.

I'm sensing crap logic here from PP, and that to me is more suspicious by far than anything else I've seen this game.

You're referring to her claiming that he's changed his reason for claiming and she can't tell why he tried to lightning-rod the NK, right?

Because now that you've drawn attention to it is pretty odd. O_o

[purple princess]

PP has been on my case since the begining, and really hasn't helped a whole lot outside of targeting me. This suspion may be personal annoyance though. Also, i have player with PP before, and her playstyle has changed from that game 9she was cop)
At this point, i would put Adamrights as my #1, with a close PP second.

I am unsure as to the relevence that you keep bringing up that we have played in a game before. this is a small site and I am sure this will happen from time to time, for the record I have been in three recent games with rayfrost, does that make me scum? Did you go back and re-read this game to see if my playstyle was different? If so you may have missed out that it was my first game I completed on here, so I am sure that everyone's playstlye is different from there first game. As you are playing as SE on here I'm sure you would be aware of this. Would also like to point out that you playstyle is very different from the last game, I just thought this was a because you were new, maybe it is because of the role you have been given in this game.

Quote:
You wouldn't even know for sure that we had power roles in this game untill Excedrin was killed and revealed to be a doctor.

This is a moot point. The scum wouldn't either unless they had a roleblocker.

True, are you the roleblocker then?