Newbie 827 - Store Katana (Scum Win!)

[Messiah]

Why do you ask?

You said orphevs buddying up to purple princess makes them more likely to be scum partners, but - and yes, WIFOM, I know - wouldn't it make more sense to distance in this situation?

[RayFrost]

Why do you ask?

You said orphevs buddying up to purple princess makes them more likely to be scum partners, but - and yes, WIFOM, I know - wouldn't it make more sense to distance in this situation?

Hrmm... good point

more likely one is scum the other isn't, in this case, considering that.

I'll need to think about this

[Wysp]

@Wysp: Is there anything in orphevs' post that stands out to you as something you would like to comment on?

Like Ray said, I thought it odd that he voted NAW instead of PP, but I think that the chances are good that he's simply got more NAW evidence in front of him than PP evidence. And it makes sense, since NAW does have some evidence against him.

In my opinion, he's either scum who's trying to frame PP, or a very unprioritized townie. Which one it is depends on what PP flips, in the event that we lynch her.

Also, where's JVW? I'd like to get his take on this.

[julienvonwolfe]

Also, where's JVW? I'd like to get his take on this.

JVW is in New Zealand, where the timezones are almost opposite everybody else's. It's good to see such a lot of activity. Welcome to the game, orphevs, you've given it a needed boost.

---

I've noticed another hypocritical move from Purple Princess. Here, she expresses an unfavorable view of my activity:

juliennonwolfe;

Not really that active player, but is quite clever in the way that he posts enough not to go un-noticed.

As of now, my current post count is 32. And also,

her

current post count is 32! I don't think I need to say any more.

---

As for Orphev's list of people - other than my frustration at people continually listing all of their reads, I am incredulous at his read of Purple Princess. Orphev, can you explain to me how you think Purple Princess' attack on NAW's vanilla townie claim was good and logical?

[RayFrost]

@Wysp: Is there anything in orphevs' post that stands out to you as something you would like to comment on?

Like Ray said, I thought it odd that he voted NAW instead of PP, but I think that the chances are good that he's simply got more NAW evidence in front of him than PP evidence. And it makes sense, since NAW does have some evidence against him.

In my opinion, he's either scum who's trying to frame PP, or a very unprioritized townie. Which one it is depends on what PP flips, in the event that we lynch her.

Also, where's JVW? I'd like to get his take on this.

Please read orph's post... PP is considered to be the most likely town aside from messiah. I don't think this displays a "more evidence of NAW than PP" mindset.

[Wysp]

Well, that's true. Maybe it seems that NAW is one that should hang moreso than PP.

Like Messiah said, it's unlikely that they're both scum, because he'd be distancing is they were. Since most evidence points to PP being scum at the moment, I'm trying to think of why he would do that.

Personally, I think it's just botched priorities.

[RayFrost]

Well, that's true. Maybe it seems that NAW is one that should hang moreso than PP.

Like Messiah said, it's unlikely that they're both scum, because he'd be distancing is they were. Since most evidence points to PP being scum at the moment, I'm trying to think of why he would do that.

Personally, I think it's just botched priorities.

botched priorities or botched logic?

it has nothing to do with priorities as far as I can tell.

Orph thinks PP is town. This is not a priority based issue.

At best, it's a newb not reading through very well, imo, and I don't stand for being a newb counting as a valid defense.

If you feel it is based off of a priority issue, then do explain how that would influence you to read somebody that has seemed scummy to be

leaning town with a chance of a strong town read pending on activity

.

[julienvonwolfe]

I am unable to comprehend the last two posts. What is this issue of 'priorities', and how is it relevant to mafia?

Wysp, are you saying that you would prefer to lynch NAW rather than PP, and if so, why is your vote on PP?

Ray, can you explain exactly to whom your last sentence is directed? If it is Wysp, you seem to be attributing orphev's read of PP to Wysp; if it is orphev, you appear to be thrusting this whole issue of priorities at him rather unfairly, since I don't think he used that word at all.

[RayFrost]

I am unable to comprehend the last two posts. What is this issue of 'priorities', and how is it relevant to mafia?

Wysp, are you saying that you would prefer to lynch NAW rather than PP, and if so, why is your vote on PP?

Ray, can you explain exactly to whom your last sentence is directed? If it is Wysp, you seem to be attributing orphev's read of PP to Wysp; if it is orphev, you appear to be thrusting this whole issue of priorities at him rather unfairly, since I don't think he used that word at all.

Wysp is the one stating that the reason for orph's read of PP is poor priorities. I am thus asking Wysp how that makes any sense at all for explaining away how odd the read is.

[Wysp]

Wysp, are you saying that you would prefer to lynch NAW rather than PP, and if so, why is your vote on PP?

I'm saying that it seems that Orph thinks that it would be more important to lynch NAW than PP.

If you feel it is based off of a priority issue, then do explain how that would influence you to read somebody that has seemed scummy to be leaning town with a chance of a strong town read pending on activity.

I admit, that doesn't make sense, so it's probably not priorities.

I'll go reread his read and see what sense I can make of it. ><

[Wysp]

After rereading his post, I think he might have formulated his opinions on PP after his opinions on NAW, and, based off of the fact that he thought NAW was scum, saw an ally and decided, "hm, this person came to the same conclusion as me. She seems logical." I could be wrong, but it seems the most likely event.

Orph, think you can clear up this fog a bit for us?

[orphevs]

Messiah:

You didn't mention purple princess' refusal to respond to any accusations against her, why? I feel that should be an important facet of your read on her. Likewise, what about her trying to deflect attention towards Julien by lying?

Sorry, like I said, in the post:

Unfortunately I think I read so much that I started to forget what's happened between the parts I've reread and now, but I'll continue my careful PBPA dissection and post anything new I come up with from that later.

I'm still re-reading the newer stuff and I'll be posting my updated ideas as I re-read and change my views, but I have already read everything once and I generally got a good vibe from PP. I take her failure to respond the same way that I take Wysp's earlier failure to respond... seems to me they both just kind of gave up on not getting lynched and decided to do the best to help town they could given that they would be lynched. I don't think this is a good way to play, but I think it's what is happening. I would think maf and town would be equally likely to give up when accused strongly and close to being lynched, reducing this to WIFOM evidence, so I didn't mention it. Correct me if maf would have more reason to give up like that than town.
As for the deflecting attention by lying, I'm not sure I remember that. Can you refresh me? I remember when she said he was defending NAW against her arguments and that made him suspicious. That definitely does seem odd to me now, now that I think about it. I think reading so much so quickly made it so it didn't all quite click right away. That does raise my suspicions about her, but I'm still more suspicious of NAW.

RayFrost:

go with town consensus (purely the one on messiah, who is a GUY btw.)

Apologies to Messiah. As I said, I might get gender wrong. I'm new to forum mafia (really new to forums in general), so I didn't realize 'til just now that gender is displayed just under people's names on the board.

RayFrost:

blatantly buddy up to PP (seriously? your read could easily move to strong town on her? she's been one of the scummiest players in the game so far, so this is reinforcing my earlier leap of logic that you and PP might be scum buddies)

I feel like I've explained how I reached my read on her. I admit, like I said earlier, I was stupid to miss her accusation of Julien, because I think that is a scummy move. I explained my interpretation of her failure to defend herself adequately. Since I'm having trouble keeping a lot of the new evidence straight, a refresher on what other scummy behavior has been shown could really help me change my reads. If you could tell me what I'm missing I'd appreciate it.

Messiah:

@orphevs: How much experience do you have with forum mafia?

As I said, completely new to forum mafia. Only played IRL in dorms with big groups of strangers.

Wysp:

After rereading his post, I think he might have formulated his opinions on PP after his opinions on NAW, and, based off of the fact that he thought NAW was scum, saw an ally and decided, "hm, this person came to the same conclusion as me. She seems logical." I could be wrong, but it seems the most likely event.

That's exactly what it was. I was reading chronologically from the start, and from really early on NAW seemed scummy, while at the start PP seemed neutral. As time went on NAW seemed more and more maf to me, and the fact that PP saw it the same way I did made it seem to me like she was either town who saw the same evidence I did and was trying hard to make others see it or bussing really hard, and I didn't feel like I had any reason to think she was bussing (I think I'm using that term right... you guys have a lot of jargon I'm still getting used to), so I'm leaning a lot more town than maf on her.

So yhea, that's pretty much how my read on PP came up.

[orphevs]

EBWODP: Her new accusation of Messiah is making me a lot more suspicious. "Too town" seems like a very odd accusation to me. I could kind of understand the possibility of someone being "too town", but to me that would involve someone making really over the top statements like "Dang you stupid mafia, I hate you so much. You suck so hard and I am angry that you just killed that poor townie. Me and my town friends will totally get you, 'cause we are the town and we are strong. Go us! And by us I mean the town, of which I am a part." [/tongue-in-cheek] But seriously, I could only believe that "too town" is possible if it was clarified on how exactly that works. Even if it was explained to me, I REALLY doubt that Messiah would fit the criteria (whatever they may be) for being "too town".
So, PP, how is Messiah TOO town?

[Messiah]

As for the deflecting attention by lying, I'm not sure I remember that. Can you refresh me?

This post has all of the relevant quotes in it.

[purple princess]

So, PP, how is Messiah TOO town?

This was just my obversation, could be nothing, he seems to be a very town player, but looking closely he is very good at questioning all players, it may be our fault for not questioning her ourselves, or this could have been done for his own gain, as if to deflect questions by being the most "town" player.

[orphevs]

Yhea, that was admittedly a bad oversight in my post... with that accusation and the accusation of Messiah I think she's more scummy that I first thought. But I still believe that NAW is a lot more scummy. His actions and explanations of them don't make nearly as much sense to me as they0 seem to make to most of ya'll.

[Messiah]

I'll post later my explanation for why I think n107 and Adam were such bad players and I'll try to flesh out what I've said in my brief (heh... brief... I told you I was kind of a wing bad Wink ) summaries above.

Are you still working on this? I'm mainly interested in your fleshed out case on NAW.

[RayFrost]

So, PP, how is Messiah TOO town?

This was just my obversation, could be nothing, he seems to be a very town player, but looking closely he is very good at questioning all players, it may be our fault for not questioning her ourselves, or this could have been done for his own gain, as if to deflect questions by being the most "town" player.

So... messiah is mafia for scum hunting and applying pressure to players and getting reads and promoting discussion?

OMFG, messiah must be scum for acting like a textbook townie!!! Lynch the scum!!!

Agreed with messiah, really want orph's full explanation and stuff.

[NewAgeWarrior]

Hmm. I like orph moreso than his predecessors already. I don't have too much to add at this time, other than that oprh is possibly scum buddies with PP, and they are trying to help each other out (would fit with his replacements actions). This is only speculation though, because I can see why my play style has appeared scummy, so it a nice WIFOM: he is scumbuddies and he is backing her up, or he is town, and he isn't being clouded by others opinions and is making his own judgements.

[orphevs]

Sorry guys, I'm still working on re-reads. I think I should have a complete careful re-read done by Wednesday night at the latest ( I take a really long time to analyze stuff when I re-read). If anything massive pops up that really changes my views I'll definitely post about it right away, but I probably won't have much to say in terms of an update until Wednesday, to be honest.

[orphevs]

Oh jeez, I just saw what the deadline is. I guess I'll have to work hard to get my re-read done faster. I'll make sure I'm done and I post what I think by Tuesday night at the latest. *runs off to shuffle some work around to make sure he has time*

[NewAgeWarrior]

Since we seem to have the time, does anyone have anything at all to add? Random speculation, WIFOM's, anything we may not be considering?

[julienvonwolfe]

I already found you scummy.

Her point made sense, thus making you slightly scummier than before.

You've explained it, thus...

unvote, vote: adamrights

(you is plural as in both julien and NAW)

I saw a contradiction, and, to be honest, I applied pressure >.> I don't know if you are lying, thus I must see your reaction. You kept your cool... I like it when people keep their cool under pressure. Thus, I return to adamrights

I don't really care about "nice" or "safe" when it comes to voting: if I think you are scum more than anybody else, you

will

have my vote. Either that or I'm pressuring you in order to get a better read.

Ray, do you still stand by this post and this vote?

[purple princess]

Well I see that deadline is only a few days away, and I really cannot see the vote count changing anytime soon.
I know no one has asked me to claim my role, but I feel I should as it might give some of you a chance to maybe reconsider.

I am Vanilla town, I guess I could have used the excuse that NAW did by saying that if I am lynched then at least I have saved a power role from being lynched. But with myself out of the equation and obviously a night kill coming up surviving town folk need to be extra careful on who to vote for in d3 as a wrong move will mean a win for scum.

It's been an interesting game, thanks everyone.

[RayFrost]

I already found you scummy.

Her point made sense, thus making you slightly scummier than before.

You've explained it, thus...

unvote, vote: adamrights

(you is plural as in both julien and NAW)

I saw a contradiction, and, to be honest, I applied pressure >.> I don't know if you are lying, thus I must see your reaction. You kept your cool... I like it when people keep their cool under pressure. Thus, I return to adamrights

I don't really care about "nice" or "safe" when it comes to voting: if I think you are scum more than anybody else, you

will

have my vote. Either that or I'm pressuring you in order to get a better read.

Ray, do you still stand by this post and this vote?

By what I said about my gameplay? Yeah.

If my vote is still on orph, then it's no good there for the moment. Orph's too new in the game to get a good read on right now.

unvote

just in case the vote is still there.

Currently trying to tackle my read of PP (especially since I have meta on her now ) and will get back to you on that.