/in-Vitational Game 4 (Game Over!)

[charter]

/confirm

[charter]

Vote Yosarian

[charter]

Muwahahaha

[charter]

charter, have you missed me?

Of course! That's why I put your name on the people I want to play with list.

Yosarian2, why can't you tell the difference between the first post and the 44th post?

It's all charter's fault.

Not surprised Charter voted me, though. After all, Bird isn't in this game, Charter had to start off voting for me.

I was actually contemplating voting Bird, but you were a suitable option as well.

I will

unvote, vote Xyl

because I don't know why he was answering Claus's question when it clearly was addressed to Thesp and because he seems to think that "late confirming scum" is a legit reason to vote someone, but only after he's random voted tajo. Doesn't add up at all. Can you explain these Xyl?

[charter]

Wagon on Xyl please.

[charter]

Xyl, why did you answer Claus's question in post 66?

Then I realized that's pretty stupid thinking, and the Xyl wagon will continue without me,

unvote, vote BridgesAndBaloons

for post 102. That part there seems especially scummy to me.

[charter]

Herodotus, do you have anything else to add to the game at this point?

[charter]

Also

MOD, would it be possible in the votecounts to have the votes for each player in the order they were placed please?

[charter]

^Thanks.

That's...actually a really good point. Post 102 is really, really odd.

I really don't understand your logic at all, B&B. How is it that you thought you should vote for your #2 suspect rather then your #1 suspect because it was early in the game?

Yeah I know, bad logic, right? That's why I decided to vote for E_k instead, because she's my number 1 logic. Although, I don't like* Xyl because of his vote on Yosarian. Don't like the reasoning of "last to confirm."

Please respond to the concerns of the people voting you instead of ignoring them and giving us this, because this said nothing. Why are you still clinging to Xyl's bad vote like this? It's quite clear we aren't going to get anything useful out of him anytime soon.

[charter]

Well, three people said you (BAB) were scummy, two more don't just seem to be bandwagon votes, and one does. You apparently don't have a clue why people are voting you, so you don't even care to find out? Are you just hoping suspicion on you is going to blow right over by pretending like no one is voting you?

I will elaborate on why I find you suspicious. In 102, you say you then realized that waiting to vote Elvis is stupid, but you didn't realize anything. Kmd questioned you on your Hos, and a whopping seven minutes after the Hos, you apparently had this epiphany. It's an overly convoluted way of leaving the Xyl wagon, why go through all that rather than saying 'I find Elvis more scummy'?

Another thing I didn't like was the 'Xyl wagon will continue without me' comment. What led you to think that by unvoting him, his wagon would continue?

More things I find questionable about your play:
I feel that your change in opinion from the stance you held in 92 and 102 was brought round solely by Kmd questioning you.
Your initial vote for Xyl came after post 66, and was cast with no reasons posted, but then after others voiced suspicion of Xyl, you cite post 66 as scummy. Not when you make your initial vote.

Charter, did you just criticize BB for ignoring attacks while saying I'm a bad wagon because I'm ignoring attacks?

No. BAB was ignoring the votes on him. You acknowledged them but were going out of your way to be unhelpful.

[charter]

What? You seem to be twisting the facts. In my previous post, I explained that no one posted their reasons, and so I couldn't respond to anything.

Well, I was more of asking to post something worth posting, like a response to votes on you, instead of posts like 148.

I don't understand why you are not attacking Elvis. Elvis has almost as many votes as me, and she's been ignoring the votes on her. You staying off of her wagon is odd

I don't find Elvis scummy. She hasn't ignored the votes on her either. She responded to accusations in post 137 (maybe others, didn't look hard). Why is my in particular staying off her wagon odd? Why should I have to join it?

Another question: someone says something that makes me think and then I change my mind. How is this scummy?

It's not. It's how you left the Xyl wagon.

How is this scummy? Unexplained votes are not scummy.

I didn't say they are. I said that how you came back after Xyl had a wagon to repeat what others said and essentially shove legit reasons under your RVS vote was scummy.

And, asking this again.

Another thing I didn't like was the 'Xyl wagon will continue without me' comment. What led you to think that by unvoting him, his wagon would continue?

[charter]

Shabba/inHimshallibe, why do you, less than a half hour after Xyl calls out people for lurking (including both of you), pop up to make empty posts?

charter is doing some heavy lifting.

What does this mean?

[charter]

Shabba/inHimshallibe, why do you, less than a half hour after Xyl calls out people for lurking (including both of you), pop up to make empty posts?

charter is doing some heavy lifting.

What does this mean?

To note, Xyl did not list me. Thesp is noted for agreeing with all this post. But, the fact does remain that I've not posted a ton.

Late p.m. CST is a very usual time for me to check in.

And I didn't think that post was empty. : /

I don't believe elvis is being anything but a little zealous. Not out of the norm for her, it's null.

Sorry, I don't know why I thought your name was in Xyl's post. What does "charter is doing some heavy lifting" mean?

[charter]

Well, I was more of asking to post something worth posting, like a response
to votes on you, instead of posts like 148.

You make no sense. How am I supposed to respond to an attack with no reasoning behind it?

You can't. I guess I expected you to try and figure out why you were getting so many votes.

cuz i think what he did was sort of scummy and I thought other people would vote him. Why is my (apparently wrong) assumption scummy?

I'm not sure it's necessarily scummy, but it's questionable that you try and further Xyl's wagon by unvoting.

[charter]

I'm not sure it's necessarily scummy, but it's questionable that you try and further Xyl's wagon by unvoting.

should be
I'm not sure it's necessarily scummy, but it's questionable that you try and further Xyl's wagon

while

unvoting.

[charter]

I add Shabba to my list of suspects for that post because #1 is scummy as hell and because she asks for four people's opinions on wagons but has given no opinion on anyone herself.

[charter]

I'm not sure it's necessarily scummy, but it's questionable that you try and further Xyl's wagon

while

unvoting.

I just want to reiterate the fact that you're voting me for something that's not "necessarily scummy, but it's questionable."

Now, if you thought I was scum because of my vote on E_K, that's a completely different story. That'd actually be something I could defend myself against. But there's no way for me to defend against "odd" "questionable" behavior. I just don't understand the wagon on me. I think Thesp is the only one who might have a good reason, and he's still withholding it.

Not even a good strawman, I gave multiple reasons I thought you were suspicious. To try and pretend like this is the only one isn't going to fool many people.

[charter]

Well charter, your reason was not very good in the first place, was it? That is what BAB was trying to say here.

I am up to date. I don't buy the BAB wagon anymore.

The main reason I'm suspicious of BAB is his manner of leaving of the Xyl wagon to join the Elvis one.

[charter]

Well, since you (Shabba) don't want to commit to anything, what do you think of BAB? What do you think of Elvis? Who is your top suspect currently and why?

[charter]

And also, why is your vote still on Yos from the RVS?

[charter]

So, how is it a straw man if I was attacking your main reason to vote me?

My main reason for finding you suspicious was how you had this complex way of jumping off Xyl to go on Elvis, not the mere fact you did it. It looked like you did it just because Kmd pressured you. You can say you did have the revelation, but there's no way for us to verify that.

Other things I find questionable (but not sure if it makes you someone's scumbuddy) was the unvote of Xyl but saying his wagon will continue without you, and your original vote for Xyl where you gave no reason, then after people cited post 66 as scummy, you just agreed with them. Once again, no way to verify if your vote was a random vote then you copied other's reasons underneath it or if it was there all along.

What are your other reasons for voting me? Please restate them if you have already explained them. Am I misinterpreting your argument? I don't mean to do that, so please correct me if I'm misinterpreting.

I think the rest of this was a difference in theory between us, I wouldn't have sat back and taken seven serious votes and not questioned why I was being voted, but it seems you would.

[charter]

Well charter, your reason was not very good in the first place, was it? That is what BAB was trying to say here.

I am up to date. I don't buy the BAB wagon anymore.

The main reason I'm suspicious of BAB is his manner of leaving of the Xyl wagon to join the Elvis one.

If Xyl dies, turns up scum and BAB is still alive, this would make a really good point against BAB (or the other way round). I am not too fond of it at the moment.

Do you think BAB is town or something? Why? Pretty much all you've done is take pot shots at those that are suspicious of him.

I am up to date. I don't buy the BAB wagon anymore.

When did you ever buy it?

[charter]

This is plainly wrong. I did not attack anyone because they were accusing BAB. I made a comment at rofl and one at you. I doubt those really qualify as "attacks".
Saying something like this is just wrong.

I said you're taking pot shots at people who find BAB suspicious, not that you are doing it because they find BAB suspicious, but the only people on the receiving end of them are voting BAB (I would include Elvis with rofl and myself as well like post 106). They aren't attacks, they were little comments that leave a bad impression when read. I lump the Elvis one in because you give this hypothetical but it is not convincing at all.

I am not sold on BAB's townieness, but I don't think she deserves the spotlight she is currently getting.

Why not?

[charter]

Well, Shabba just delivered another post without actually taking a stance on an issue in the game, without any semblance of scumhunting, and unsuprisingly her top two suspects are the top two vote earners. I am at a loss as to what to do about this.

This latest point against BAB about arguing that he could be buddies is pretty solid, I want to hear what he says. I also want to vote Shabba sooo bad.

[charter]

Charter, what is a semblance of scumhunting, then? I read through all the posts looking for things that I thought were telling, then I thought I pointed them out. I thought I took a stance...I will admit to being fairly new to the game, but I don't think that makes me completely naive. I wanted to see who would egg me on the most to vote either way, hoping it would be telling....
What is not surprising is that the most vote earners have the most convincing arguments being made against them.

Scumhunting normally involves voting or asking people questions to determine their alignment. You've done neither, just making comments on things, which is an easy route to take as scum.

[charter]

The #1 is in reference to the first question you ask in 215. I forgot about that post when I said you weren't scumhunting, so I was wrong, I take that back (however, you should follow up on them). When I say take a stance, I mean vote someone or do something that actually shows what you think about someone. Naming the top two suspects and not actually committing to one looks really scummy to the rest of us, especially when those two seem unlikely to both be scum.

[charter]

I am not sold on BAB's townieness, but I don't think she deserves the spotlight she is currently getting.

Why not?

Because there are players who are actually doing scummy things.

Can you tell me which players you think these are?

BaB wagon is well deserved for this:

Unvote, Vote: roflcopter, but I totally support a BaB claim.

rofl is one of the people pushing hardest against BAB, so how can you think the BAB wagon is deserved and want a claim from him AND vote for rofl? Why are you voting for him? This really doesn't make a bit of sense to me, it's like you're trying to join the BAB wagon, but you aren't actually doing it.

Thesp, who is your number two suspect and why?

[charter]

I don't get BAB's repeated "If I flip scum" statements. If you were town, I don't think this would enter your head. I've seen "If I'm scum" once before and we pretty much speedlynched the guy and he was scum.

Still want a BAB lynch.

[charter]

I'm working on a reread of day one, just don't want a prod.

[charter]

Sorry for being away for so long, I kept putting off a reread

Vote Xyl

I think him and Thesp are scum together.

Xyl is probably scum.
Answering Claus's question directed at Thesp.
Loads of pointless posts and posts about the setup early on.
Waffles on the 4 scum or 5, EK or kmd debates (post 105)
376 is distancing himself from the mislynch.

Thesp
168 is bizarre, especially saying he appreciates Claus's close reading, after Claus says he's getting scummy vibes from Thesp.
474, doesn't even care about BAB's suspicions.

Posts 405 and 406 of Claus are probably the best I've seen upon rereading. Even better is Xyl's response in 413. It definately strengthens the connection between him and Thesp.

End of day one. Begin day two.

507, Where did your "I think Thesp is a good citizen" come from ZuFaul (other than left field)?
ZuFaul also hindered just about everything he could day one, which EK touched on.

524 is a good post by Ojanen

529, Xyl is totally scum.

534, Thesp has too many people he's willing to vote for, but he doesn't vote any. It looks to me like he doesn't want to pressure them or find out their alignment, just wait until a wagon forms, then try and lynch the easiest candidate.

549, Why did Xyl even make this post? He says absolutely nothing. I don't think he was being addressed either.

631, ANOTHER crappy bandwagon vote from Xyl. He just bandwagons when he can. He doesn't even try to figure out people's alignment.

673, looks like Xyl is setting himself up to vote for Ekim if it becomes convenient for him.

739, A completely useless vote from Xyl.

My scumspicions:
Xyl
Thesp
ZuFaul


I think Ekim is town. I don't understand why Ekim is being voted at all. It is clearly scumdriven. I don't like the Social wagon either, I think Yosarian's vote on it boils down to OMGUS because even if SC exaggerated his reasons for finding Yos suspicious, that's not enough to warrant a vote on him from Yos. I can comment on the other votes, but Yos's was the one I saw after I decided SC is town.

Page 31 has changed my entire perception so far. The points against VP make sense, but he has a lot of the people I find suspicious on his wagon. Now that I get to page 32, I see that I am right with my Xyl vote.


TL;DR of my scatterbrained post.
- Xyl is scum.
- Thesp is a good candidate for his buddy.

[charter]

I see that I waffle on the VP issue. I don't believe he's scum, largely due to his wagon ballooning on the last page, and a lot of people I'm finding suspicious are voting him.

[charter]

Hmmm one page bandwagon goes L-1? That was awesome.

unvote

Massive FOS. You come back to just unvote? No comment on the wagon? No comment on VP? Nothing? I had been thinking that kmd/elvis was town/town, but this is too ridiculous to ignore. Elvis gets added to my scumlist.

Also Xyl, I didn't defend VP, I said I don't think he's scum. Also, that is miles off a chainsaw defense. Ok?

[charter]

Well, I still believe what I said about VP in my last post where I voted him, but I don't want to quicklynch the guy.

Plus, basically all my other top suspects are voting VP, which makes me a little worried.

So you're not asking for a claim or anything? Are you still planning on voting him or what? Who is worrying you? Why? Come on...

[charter]

I'm not trying to be difficult charter. I felt like I needed to unvote before I decided what I thought about everything, since VP went from nothing to L-1 in less than a day. If I'm being a bit indecisive it's because things happened so fast, and also I have some RL stuff going on.

I am not entirely sure the wagon is bad yet since I do think VP's original case on ekiM wasn't very strong, and also his iamausername case was different than mine and had points I didn't care for.

On the other hand, iamausername has seemed scummy to me too, and so have Mike and serial. They're all on the wagon. Plus Xyl, who votes for no reason, putting VP L-1, no less. So I'm not comfortable with any of them either. Username in particular worries me because he had problems with VP before, but had opted to vote rofl. Yet when there was VP support, he came right over. Sort of like if there hadn't been support, he wouldn't have gone for VP. Which is reactive rather than playing to his own conscience. I guess of the 4 I find suspicious on the wagon, iam and xyl are the most.

This is one of the biggest fluff posts I have ever seen. You need to state what you actually/supposedly think on all of these issues instead of saying "well, I think it could be this, but that also makes sense" When you unvoted, you said nothing about not wanting a lynch yet, it was only after I questioned you, so it seems to me like you were trying to save face (or revote if VP gets condemned) while "deciding". Also when you unvoted, I got the sense that the wagon growing that big and fast pleased you, but now that seems to have changed.

I feel like the last part describes you very well too, along with others who voted VP.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure voting you at this point would only be followed by kmd, and that's not going to accomplish anything, so it's Xyl or Thesp for me.

(yes I missed VP's claim, but he isn't scum, so he shouldn't be lynched)

Also, Pooky, you need to do something. Starting with putting down a serious vote and serious scumhunting or you're just going to be added to the scumgroup by default. IAUN, you also need to put down a vote on someone who can actually get votes, or start pushing your rofl case way harder, because right now you're just sitting on the sidelines (though not as bad as Pooky).

Regardless of all this, Xyl is scum and needs votes.

[charter]

vote ekiM

since he has the most votes of the people I suspect, and I think that he was unfair in some of his points on VP.

Who are the top three people you suspect and in what order?

[charter]

No. People need to unvote VP and vote Xyl or Thesp. Thesp's VP vote was nothing but a bandwagon vote, and then 24 hours later, he's all of a sudden fine with a VP lynch? I doubt it. This is all after Thesp says he wants to vote VP, but agrees with VP's SC push (waffle much?) and doesn't commit to anywhere despite complaining that there's so many people that need voting. Later he says "VP needs to die". NOTHING SINCE THEN. Come on, how are people still letting Thesp get by without him giving reasons for his suspicions?

It's pretty obvious that VP is going to be a mislynch, so all those voting him need to switch their vote.

[charter]

It's pretty obvious that VP is going to be a mislynch, so all those voting him need to switch their vote.

It's not obvious to me at all.

Ok...
Of course it would be too helpful to give your reasons for voting VP in the first place, or to give reasons you are so sure he's scum, or tell us who you actually think is scum and why. Maybe after that it will be obvious why VP will be a mislynch.

[charter]

I don't have any reason to think VP Baltar is

not

scum.

What the hell? This isn't how it works at all, unless you are saying that there are so many scummy things about him, there's no possible way he could be town. If that's the case, please list some of them to enlighten the rest of us.

Right now I'd be reluctant to lynch... hmm... elvis, Ojanen, roflcopter, Yosarian2, zu_Faul, and maybe Thesp. I'd definitely be on a lynch of charter, ekiM, PookyTheMagicalBear, or VP Baltar. Everyone else is undecided.

That's an incredibly convenient list there. Top two current vote holders, silent person, and person who's voting you. Why are you suspicious of those four people?

[charter]

I don't have any reason to think VP Baltar is

not

scum.

What the hell? This isn't how it works at all

Not for you maybe... but I find it works pretty well for me.

Ok... Still waiting on this.

Why are you suspicious of those four people?

[charter]

Ok then...
What has everyone else done to lessen your suspicions of them so much?

[charter]

My mind wasn't made up at that point. That's why I unvoted without voting anyone. I needed to think about it, and didn't want VP sitting at L-1 when I hadn't had time to discuss anything with him. My mind is more made up more after seeing VP's latest response to EkiM's case. I'm not as worried about VP as I was before.

Regardless, what part of unvoting made you think I wanted VP lynched?

Ok... Had you said that initially, I'd be pretty inclined to believe you, but instead of saying you were unsure on VP, you exclaimed glee that he had so many votes. I don't know why you would ask that question, I thought that your vote meant you were fine with a VP lynch, when you unvoted, I had no idea if you still wanted him lynched but didn't want to be in the votecount or what.

Also I call BS on you calling other people out for not contributing enough, seeing as you haven't been here at all today until now.

Yes, it was hypocritical, but just because I wasn't here doesn't excuse others. They are guilty as well and I'm trying to figure out where they stand on people.

I'm good with a VP Baltar lynch. Yosarian2, what do you think?

Another Thesp-is-scum-ism! Why is he asking Yos when he would be fine voting for Yos?

Well, I'm totally hammering VP Baltar if he gets to L-1. I just want to make sure that people know Yosarian2 is scum. He's suddenly stopped defending himself to avoid drawing extra attention when I get nightkilled.

This statement makes no sense and is scummy to boot. Why do you have to swoop down for a quickhammer? How are Yos and VP scumbuddies at all? Also scummy is the "when I get nightkilled" quip, which was probably thrown in there because you're scum, and can't get nightkilled.

Seriously, people need to unvote VP and vote Xyl. He is scum, VP is not.

[charter]

How are Yos and VP scumbuddies at all?

What speaks against it?

That's not how this works, have you been going to Xylschool of nonexistant scumhunting? (joke) But seriously, I don't see how they are connected at all, can you enlighten me?

More Xyl votes. How can anyone think he looks town after him and Yos's back and forth? Xyl's Yos votes have been terrible, as have all of his votes. Xyl is scum! It is obvious.

[charter]

Xyl, who of ekiM/VP would you rather lynch?

Same question to Charter, Rofl, Yos, and Pooky.

If I had to pick, it would be ekiM.

[charter]

tajo, you should totally vote Xyl.

[charter]

Fine, I guess I've made my point

unvote, vote VP Baltar

Don't forget that Yos is scum

If this isn't a confession of Xyl being scum, I don't know what is. He just gives up on Yos (he hasn't made any point either, by the way) to hop back on VP.

VP is clearly town. I think I was wrong about ekiM before. Everyone I am suspicious of is voting for VP for terrible or nonexistent reasons and isn't even looking at ekiM. At all.

Regardless, the Xyl wagon is slowing, but surely, gathering votes. Only four more votes needed!

[charter]

So we can lynch Xyl now?

[charter]

Rofl, could you do up your 3 most scummy and 3 most townie?

town:
yos
elvis
charter

scum:
xyl
serialclergyman
kmd

I'm seriously thinking Xyl/Thesp/maybe ekiM triangle. I will have to go back and read up on serial and kmd. What do you think of Thesp?

[charter]

I've already pointed out connections between Xyl and Thesp, combined with both of their play being questionable at best, and scumalicious at other times, and I'm pretty sure they are scumbuddies. As for the ekiM, too many people are preferring VP (and at times for terrible reasons) over ekiM, I really don't see a reason so many people are ignoring ekiM either, so it looks to me like they are trying to save him. Granted, that's a pretty far out there theory, and we should start by lynching Xyl, and working our way from there.

[charter]

Meh. Scum are Yos, VP Baltar, charter, and tajo. Lynch them next.

Oh, and many of the arguments against me are scummy bullshit, so take a look at who was attacking and who was defending, and how. Particularly vp vs ekim. Ekim's right there.

Charter's first post against me was chock full of bullshit too.

Little tip: town tend to think I'm ambiguous leaning town. Scum tend to think I'm incredibly scummy and an easy mislynch. It's not 100% but the pattern is there.

This is the classic 'you've caught me, but for bullshit reasons' giving up post.

[charter]

How does that point to Xyl being scum?

Because he is just giving up on his top suspect, without trying to convince anyone else that Yos is scum, to hop back on the easy target.

Charter you said then that my wagon was clearly scum-driven. You think VP is town. You've barely mentioned or suspected KMD, or Ojanen, or Tajo. Who did you have in mind when you said that? Why did you not pursue them?

I was wrong to say your wagon was scumdriven, I don't know why I was thinking it.

Could you summarise which points against me you think are valid? You haven't really commented on my play whatsoever, yet you've gone from thinking my wagon is scum driven, to me being part of your hypo-scumteam. This strikes me as odd.

Well, most of why I find you suspicious is the people I think are scum all piled on VP and are ignoring you. It makes you look suspicious but at the same time, they could just be trying to lynch VP because they think it will be easier. That's why you're only a secondary suspect.

[charter]

Ironic that now that Xyl is at L-1 he wants to be helpful and sort of try and scumhunt. Too late I say.

[charter]

Ironic that now that Xyl is at L-1 he wants to be helpful and sort of try and scumhunt. Too late I say.

Apparently asking questions and giving opinions is not scumhunting, but putting votes in order is.

Wow I never knew that. Thanks charter!

Well, you just now responded to my post, which I made ten pages ago. Seems like you didn't care if I suspected you as long as you weren't about to be lynched, but now that you are, you're flailing. The putting votes in order was being useful. I said sort of scumhunting, but that was being generous probably.

VP is obviously town. He didn't wait like Xyl has done until he was under fire to start doing something, he went from zero votes to L-1 in less than a page. I noticed he looked a little panicked, but other than that, no real change in his playstyle.

[charter]

I'm trying to figure out charter.

He ignores all the posts where I ask questions.

Where do you ask me questions? If it's the post where you quoted my case on you from ten pages ago, I didn't read that. If you actually want answers, I'll read it and answer, but if you're just going to poo poo my answers and call me scum some more, I won't bother.

He ignores all the posts where I say that someone is town, or scum.

Pretty much. I tried asking you why you wanted to lynch certain people before, and after I played 20 questions, you gave me a load of garbage that amounted to "gut", which means nothing to me.

He ignores all the posts where I weigh in on an argument, or calls them "absolutely nothing" and asks why I posted.

I think I said one of your posts said absolutely nothing, I can explain if you want. Most of your posts dont have any explanation, and I've given up trying to find any from you, so yeah, I do.

But... when I put some votes in order, he says that I'm finally scumhunting.

Well no. You were being helpful, but still letting kmd do the scumhunting for you.

In your experience, who worries more about being lynched: town, or scum?

This is obviously scum. I don't know why you try and pull this, it just makes you look worse.

[charter]

Ironic that now that Xyl is at L-1 he wants to be helpful and sort of try and scumhunt. Too late I say.

But... when I put some votes in order, he says that I'm finally scumhunting.

Well no. You were being helpful, but still letting kmd do the scumhunting for you.

Okay... so I'm finally being helpful. Which implies, I guess, that you think I haven't been helpful at all up until now.

On the other hand, when I vote Pooky (who has by any measure been

completely useless

), you call my vote... "completely useless".

What gives?

You voted someone who has said two words this game. Did you ask them any questions for them to answer?? Noooo. Did you give a reason for voting them? Nooo. Did you try and make anybody else see the same way as you? Nooo. Did that vote accomplish anything? Noooo. Was that vote completely useless? Yes it was.

[charter]

You voted someone who has said two words this game. Did you ask them any questions for them to answer?? Noooo. Did you give a reason for voting them? Nooo. Did you try and make anybody else see the same way as you? Nooo.

If you had to take a guess, why do you think I voted Pooky? What are the possible reasons?

To look like you're doing something? Hell if I know. I know that if I were to have voted Pooky there, I would have asked him a bunch of questions and asked for others to vote Pooky so he had to answer them.

[charter]

I am lost. Going to reread.

[charter]

Vote tajo

I think kmd/tajo are scum. Tajo has escaped all scrutiny but does not look his normal town self, at all. I will try and elaborate later. Kmd

IS

guilty of failure to be town.

[charter]

Am not.

What do you think of tajo then? Town or scum?

[charter]

Vote tajo

I think kmd/tajo are scum. Tajo has escaped all scrutiny but does not look his normal town self, at all. I will try and elaborate later. Kmd

IS

guilty of failure to be town.

I still don't like charter.

Tajo hasn't participated enough for my liking, but he seems town to me.

And charter's failure to give reasons is not a good sign.

And his failure to comment on current issues with iam/rofl is disturbing.

unvote kmd; vote charter

I don't know what roles/info IAUN and rofl have, so I don't see why I should tell them how to play those roles. I'm pretty sure they are both competent and can figure out how best to divulge anything. I really hate when someone tries to play your role for you or has to have every single detail revealed immediately.

I said I am working on getting the reasons.

[charter]

Ouch. Let me read up.

[charter]

i think kmd/iam/baltar are nice picks for scum.

and charter.

but mostly because he's charter.

I find 1202 by ekiM to be the scummiest post of day three (which is what I'm comprehensively reading in this post). I don't think it's possible to cook up a bigger waffle than that post.

I think iamausername is trying to tell us something.

unvote;
Vote: roflcopter.

That he is your scumbuddy? I find this to be quite the contradiction to your post 1202 where you totally waffled on rofl's softclaim, but now that IAUN softclaims, it immediately becomes protown, and you vote for rofl. SC does this as well.

No, no no. Do not like 1275. First off, I don't understand why your choice is guaranteed to do good, as you portrayed it would. I can definitely see the argument of blocking a scumkill, but you can't seriously think that you'd save rofl as well. Also, his reasoning for lynching yos before rofl is pretty bad.

VOTE IAMAUSERNAME

I do not like any of those defending IAUN's claim. First off, it's HIGHLY advantageous for scum to counter a role if they can get the real powerrole lynched. All this talk of IAUN wouldn't have the balls as scum, is total baloney. Second, Yos is right with his preachings that IAUN left himself multiple outs with his lynch Yos first plan, and it was a scummy suggestion. Third, I find EK incredibly suspect. After all this talk, she talks a lot about how IAUN's actions don't make sense or whatever, but no votes from it, she's voting me, a pointless vote. Fourth, I find SC scummy as well. Sixth, I am pretty damn sure EK is IAUN's buddy with this bizarre way she is going about his claim. Last, I think SC is their buddy too.

[charter]

Charter went from fourth to sixth. Def scum IMHO. I am moving house for a few days with no net access, so I'm limited with what I can post. If you don't see me too much over the next couple of days that's why.

What?

Why do you think I am scum again?

[charter]

Fifthly was probably something like "SC is totally scum", but I must have deleted it because I was repeating myself.

[charter]

Let me get this straight:

1)Charter lurks for long periods yesterday and today, coming in when he pleases and blows a lot of hot air around. Pushes Xyl wagon hard yesterday.

Yes, I was wrong about that.

2)Charter votes tajo today out of nowhere without giving reasons, promising to get the reasons later. These reasons never materialize. Nobody picks up on his caseless attack so he moves on.

I can go back and find some if you want, I just figured that by the time I returned, it would be pointless to lynch someone besides rofl/iaun

3)Charter refuses to comment on the rofl/iam situation until the dust settles. Let's see which way the wind is blowing!

Umm, this pretty much describes you, not me. They both had two votes when I voted, you're still not voting either one.

4)Charter sees Iamausername claims to have jailkept rofl on a night rofl has claimed a result, and decides, against all logic, to vote iamausername. Who cares if lynching rofl makes much more sense, right? Who cares if either way rofl flips the town will benefit, right? (If rofl is scum, we lynch scum, high probability of lovers; if rofl is town we get two confirmed innocents).

Did I miss anything there?

Did you read iaun's story? It was a really bad one that looks quite scummy. I also disagree that lynching a townie to get two confirmed vanillas will be very useful, and I disagree that lynching rofl makes more sense. I also note that this is apparently 'OMGZSZZ, LYNCH ROFLLL, SO MUCH SENSZEE' but you're not voting him, despite the mountains of sense you think it makes. Plus, iaun has gone out of his way to make sure that lynching him today won't say anything about rofl. Clearly designed to lynch rofl first (or YOs somehow) which is another reason to vote iaun.

[charter]

Charter, dear, I am voting rofl right now. Please read the game.

Ah yes. That must have been another reason I didn't vote rofl the other night, kmd's slimy vote on iaun was marginally more tolerable than your slimy vote on rofl.

Why are you arguing so hard against a 1for1 scum trade? They probably just need two more mislynches to win, so a 1for1 trade if they get town lynched first seems like a good idea to me.

[charter]

Charter, address this:

5)Charter studiously ignores the fact that rofl claimed vanilla cop, a role who seems like it would probably not favor chopping the heads off vanillas as much as rofl did in the case of bridges. No comment about this inconsistency from good ole Charter!

Well, if you thought someone is scum, seems like a better idea to just lynch them than waste an investigation on them. I don't see why you'd go around lynching people you weren't as sure was scum just because they haven't claimed vanilla yet.

[charter]

It wouldn't be a good idea unless there was a strong chance scum was going to be lynched without the 1 for 1 trade, because a 1 for 1 trade is clearly worse for scum than a 1 for 0 trade. Do you think there was scum heading for a lynch today before I forced this situation? If so, who?

Not really.

[charter]

There are others who have concerns about rofl/IAAU but haven't voted for either of them, why is Elvis_knits special?

I missed them, who else did this?

I'd be happy with a Pooky or charter lynch. I'd be ok with a rofl or iaun lynch. Please don't make me choose between those two.

This is horribly antitown. There's clearly a scum within one of them, why would you lynch someone else? Also, refusing to choose, is scummy. Same goes to Thesp. Zu Faul and Thesp, if you were to vote for one of rofl/iaun, who would it be?

Why is Iam still alive?

Really not sure.

[charter]

Fine

unvote, vote Roflcopter

[charter]

I actually went back and reread rocossi today, and there were a lot of differences, granted we had like five obvscums there by page three, but there was a lot more interacting with many players in that game. Here, day one, he spends most of it lynching BAB, but there's virtually no quotes (except arguing with BAB) in any of his posts, whereas in rocossi there was. Granted, it's not very concrete, but it's enough that I can accept a rofl lynch.

I'm pretty much lost in this game, I really don't know if it's one of rofl/iaun, but it seems as if iaun isn't going to be lynched, and I don't really think there's going to be that many vanillas left anyway.

@Thesp, no, I'm not convinced at all.

[charter]

unvote

Should we see if people targeted tajo on night one or two, and then if it failed? I suppose if you targeted him and it didn't fail, you should speak up. Probably keep it to yourself if it did fail.

[charter]

vote kmd

[charter]

Assuming we believe tajo, it means tajo, charter, rofl, yosarian, and VP are all town. That means there are four or five scum in
ekiM
elvis_knits
iamausername
Kmd4390
PookyTheMagicalBear, replacing alexhans N1
SerialClergyman
Thesp
zu_Faul

kmd and zu_faul are the ones I'd pick to be scum.

[charter]

Balter, IAUN is saying to shoot tajo. He has to hide behind someone, so if the vig shoots tajo, tajo dies if he's lying, nothing happens if he's town. If the vig shot someone else and they were town and tajo hid behind them, it could be game over.

[charter]

Well, of those not included under the umbrella of tajo's claim, Elvis was the only one on both mislynches. I could go for an Elvis, kmd, or zu faul lynch. Any of them is fine, really.

kmd's vote has been on people with zero chance of being lynched at the end of the day, probably at least one of them is his buddy.

[charter]

Ugh. I'm not terribly sure on kmd. I REALLY want to vote for either ekiM or Elvis. Let me look back and see if this is a good idea or not.

[charter]

Actually yeah, if the vig claims now, that will give us a guarenteed innocent, unless we get a counter, which we can deal with if the situation arises. Of course, this only applies if they have no bullets left, cause if they do, they need to shoot tajo tonight.

I also think, that if a vig claims and isn't countered, then we should lynch tajo today, because it A) prevents losing tonight if the person he hides behind is killed or he hides behind scum B) either nets a scum (virtually two or three) or four confirmed townies.

[charter]

unvote, vote Pooky

[charter]

Honestly, my first choice lynch is elvis, anyone up for that? Pooky seems like an acceptable lynch, though we should probably let him claim and see what that brings. OH HOW I HOPE HE CLAIMS VIG TO MAKE IT THAT MUCH MORE INTERESTING FOR US!

[charter]

I don't get why we would massclaim today. Why?

What are we waiting for on the Pooky lynching front?

[charter]

Update:

Assuming we believe tajo, it means tajo, charter, rofl, yosarian, and VP are all town. That means there are four or five scum in
ekiM
elvis_knits
iamausername

Kmd4390

PookyTheMagicalBear, replacing alexhans N1

SerialClergyman

Thesp
zu_Faul

kmd and SC get removed since kmd is confirmed and SC is easily confirmed (READ you need to protect someone at some point and die)

Username could maybe be confirmed, but probably not worth it.

This seemingly means that the scumteam is ekiM, Elvis, Pooky, Thesp, zu faul, just by process of elimination. The only thing I'm concerned about is the whole rofl/user thing, which really makes no sense. I dunno, Pooky is still a good lynch for today, if he flips scum, we can probably keep lynching the people on that list. If Pooky flips town, then I don't think it's possible for tajo/rofl/yos to be town.

Did I miss anything?

[charter]

Guys, Elvis is scum. Lynching username proves nothing. When she says 'if he's town we know there is a scum RB' is bs. It means there could be a scum RB or rofl is scum. I think this is a slip, since she isn't counting the possibility of rofl being scum, just that username was roleblocked. If rofl was scum, then obviously there doesn't need to be a roleblocker (still could be one obviously).

I'd lynch pooky or elvis. I'm pretty sure both them are scum. Pretty sure rofl is town.

[charter]

No, I said I think you slipped up knowledge that rofl is town. If rofl is town, then tajo is town as well. Like I said, we should lynch Elvis today.

[charter]

treestump

[charter]

What Yos said. ^^

[charter]

Alright, brainwave while in the shower. This should allow us to test tajo's claim pretty well. I believe this requires us to no lynch today, someone needs to double check this so we don't accidentally blow the game. Also, all of this assumes tajo is town, though if he isn't, we will know tomorrow.

tajo, if town, knows these people are town
charter
populartajo
roflcopter
VP Baltar
Yosarian2

He can also eliminate Kmd4390, since no one countered the vig claim. This means that there are five (erring on caution) scum in these people.
ekiM
elvis_knits
iamausername
PookyTheMagicalBear, replacing alexhans N1
SerialClergyman
Thesp
zu_Faul

I say we make tajo hide behind one of these people, and get killed tonight. The only thing I'm worried about, is if he hides behind town and that townie gets killed, but I don't see why/how that would happen. Theoretically, tajo picks the one of those that he thinks is most likely to be scum, and hides behind them tonight, thus getting killed, also confirming a scumbag. If he lives, we lynch tajo the next day.

The only thing is if there is five scum, and tajo hides behind town tonight, and scum kill that townie, then I think we lose.

[charter]

No...

The point of my plan is for tajo to hide behind scum, there's nothing scum can do to stop this. Hider resolves before everything, and if tajo dies and the person he's hiding behind doesn't, then it confirms a scum and a bunch of townies.

Of course, the best option is to lynch Elvis/Pooky, and then continue lynching down that list until the game is over.

[charter]

Charter, are you willing to lose the game if I'm town?

My plan doesn't hinge on if you're town or scum. It hinges on tajo hiding behind scum, which if he's town, he has over a 50% chance of that tonight.

[charter]

I'm just throwing it out, but if no one else wants to do it, then lynching tajo is fine I guess. I don't think he's scum, but whatever, lynching him guarantees we have another day.

[charter]

Roleblocker can't block tajo... Hider resolves first.

[charter]

Fuck it

unvote, vote tajo

[charter]

Well, if we lynch tajo today, and he's town, then tomorrow we'll still have myself, yosarian, balter, kmd as confirmed town, at the very least.

I also think that if tajo flips town, this confirms iaun as scum, and by extension, elvis, since she fought so hard for his claim.

This means there's probably three scum in

ekiM
PookyTheMagicalBear, replacing alexhans N1
SerialClergyman
Thesp
zu_Faul

I think we could then lynch ekiM and make him venge kill someone else, probably pooky/zu faul. I think we're pretty lucky on the mafia win conditions, it will allow us to lynch ekiM and make him venge kill, I think (though I didn't count the town/scum ratio, we should make sure when we get to this point). If ekiM venge kills the last townie, then we probably lose, but there's a 75% chance he kills scum even if he just picks a number out of a hat.

[charter]

That's dumb, but no need to deal with it right now.

[charter]

WE CAN'T VIG TAJO. If there's a roleblocker, it won't work.

[charter]

Are you serious?

[charter]

Oh, remember how everyone bitched at me for asking about that? Then you and him accuse me of rolefishing? Yeah.

zu faul doesn't want to lynch tajo, which makes me like it more.

[charter]

You. You're seriously asking what is wrong with clearing people based on WIFOM?

[charter]

Yeah, also seen you try and use it to win. Why can't ekiM be doing the same thing? It seems like a no risk, high reward option to lynch him and make him venge kill someone.

[charter]

Everyone that isn't voting tajo, in their next post, should either vote him, promise to vote him before deadline, or explain why we shouldn't lynch him. This is kind of dumb we're going down to deadline.

[charter]

BALTER AND ZU FAUL. YOU ARE BOTH NOT VOTING. THERE IS LIKE 24 HOURS UNTIL DEADLINE. GET OFF YOUR ANTITOWN ASSES AND VOTE SOMEONE.

I think we should just lynch tajo. No lynch is a poor idea I think. Tajo needs to die, then we will be able to solve this game pretty much. If tajo is town, scum can only block rofl or kmd, not both. Either way, there will be another scum investigated (pooky or zu faul) or killed by kmd.

EKIM AND YOSARIAN, GET OFF YOUR ANTITOWN ASSES AND VOTE SOMEONE WHO CAN GET LYNCHED.

[charter]

Well, if we keep no lynching, and tajo remains alive, scum will just pick off actual townies 'confirmed' by tajo and rofl. This is true regardless of if tajo is town or scum. If he's scum, then they'll kill people that are 'confirmed' that actually part of the scumteam (probably you and me).

As long as we don't know if tajo's claim is some insane scum gambit, then we have to pick between tajo/rofl/yos scumteam or five other people scumteam. The sooner we figure out which scenario we are dealing with, the sooner we can just eliminate people and drastically increase our odds of lynching scum. If we push the decision off until the last possible minute (LYLO) and we get it wrong (and just one person needs to get it wrong, and I seriously have no clue in this game) then town will lose.

Also, I am quite worried that we are threatening to not have a lynch. A LOT of people have been lurking hardcore like nobody's business recently. Some of these people off the top of my head
rofl (last post friday)
thesp (last post thursday)
Pooky and username haven't posted since saturday, normally not lurking, but it's very close to deadline.

No lynching will just let scum kill another townie, and we won't be any closer to winning. I don't think we should no lynch.

[charter]

Preview charter, preview...
If he's scum, then they'll kill people that are 'confirmed' that actually part of the scumteam (probably you and me).

Really means

If he's scum, then they'll kill people that are 'confirmed' that actually

aren't

part of the scumteam (probably you and me).

[charter]

I'm not sure it will paint them in to a corner. Take for instance rofl comes in tomorrow and claims Pooky is not a vanilla, tajo says he didn't hide (or hides with rofl, or whatever) and scum NK you. We lynch pooky, he's vanilla. We'd go into the night with eleven people. With five possible scumbags, the only way we could survive is if username jails the scum that's doing the killing (and username needs to be town).

Sorry if this is a double post, I don't think it is, but I'm getting the white screen.

[charter]

I dunno tajo, I thought you were scum earlier in the day, though I don't even remember why now. I don't really have a very good town read on you.

A main reason I'm happy with the tajo lynch, is that is has kmd (confirmed town) and balter on it (almost certainly town) and myself. Which is three townies. None of the other wagons have that. PLUS, I think if tajo was town and a hider, he'd have been hammered so long ago, but I am pulling teeth trying to get a lynch. I think it very unlikely that three scum wouldn't have voted tajo by now if he was town, especially since there's a scapegoat in SC if tajo is town.

[charter]

Oh my god. Tajo then zu faul.

[charter]

KMD, I've never said that I won't switch to tajo to avoid a no lynch. I'm just not going to do that when there is clearly still hope for a Pooky lynch.

Will you switch?

[charter]

Hammer away.

[charter]

Doesn't leave a plausible scumteam if Tajo's claimed confirmations are true.

Yep. Yos has outed himself as scum as well, but that was likely anyway.

[charter]

I'd like to point out, if yos/rofl are mafia lovers, which at this point is looking more and more realistic by every hour (literally), then we will be really set in the coming days. That will buy us another lynch.

[charter]

Then lynching tajo will prove that and we can then lynch Serial and Pooky and whoever else you want.

[charter]

Let's try this, everyone voting for tajo, please state if there is any way you will switch to vote off of tajo. Then maybe those that do not want a no lynch (worst possible thing to do today) will switch to tajo.

No way I am moving my vote off tajo.

[charter]

Balter, please hammer asap. I am very worried that someone is going to unvote.

[charter]

I'm making this clear to you for a reason. If you are town, I expect you to protect rofl tonight. If you are scum, then I hope that the knowlege that you will be lynched tomorrow if rofl dies may prevent you from killing him. That's also why I wanted you to specifically verify that you had heard and understood it.

Let's also clear up, if tajo flips scum, protect kmd, since that will pretty much confirm rofl as scum.

[charter]

Oh, what the fuck. I just looked at the votecount at the top of the page and saw the number "6" and assumed it was tajo.

This is ridiculous, even if Pooky by some miracle gets lynched, and is scum, I'm still going to want tajo just as dead.

Pooky seems willing to let a no lynch go down, which is scummy and idiotic. Sigh.

[charter]

Tempted to hammer even though Tajo is the better lynch.

Only do it like ten minutes before deadline. I'll be around as well in case there's another last minute ship jumper. We still need to lynch tajo today.

[charter]

charter, I'm loving your style, but why so heavily behind a tajo lynch now compared to a couple of days ago when you were arguing against it? In fact, I seem to remember your vote for tajo was along the lines of 'fuck it, vote tajo'..

The fact that it was days ago is why I wasn't wholeheartily behind it. Now that we are right at the deadline, and all the people that will be implicated by tajo flipping scum are so vigorously trying to get pooky lynched, makes me think tajo is scum, regardless of what pooky flips.

This is ridiculous, even if Pooky by some miracle gets lynched, and is scum, I'm still going to want tajo just as dead.

We lynch pooky and he flip scum, we're no longer in lynch or lose land, we have a little room to work with. In that case, we can try a "tajo hides, KMD tries to vig him" or something like that to try and test tajo.

Role. Blocker.

[charter]

Role. Blocker.

There might be a scum roleblocker.

The only situation in which we KNOW there would have to be a scum roleblocker is if both rofl and iamusername are town. Otherwise, we don't actually have any evidence for one.

In any case, it's a fairly safe test to run, so long as we lynch scum today first.

Ok, it is official. Tajo/rofl/yos are scum, and this was a brilliant scum gambit. Rofl's alignment is irrelevant in whether or not there is a roleblocker. If username is town, there is, if he's scum, there still could be. I'm pretty sure this is like the second time someone has made this slipup.

[charter]

You're right, I'm dumb. Sorry Yos.

[charter]

Ok, I just narrowly avoided a heart attack.

[charter]

vote roflcopter

[charter]

There is literally zero chance that rofl is town. After he flips scum, there is even less chance that Yos is town (assuming they aren't lovers).

I'd say zu faul and probably thesp are the buddies.

[charter]

I have no problem saying it

[charter]

I think kmd should save his bullets until a roleblocker is revealed, that way they aren't wasted, since it's the most powerful role we have.

You raise a good point about the traitor, but I think it's a much better idea to lynch rofl first.

[charter]

BTW, Reading the role PMs I think the mafia team know who the traitor is from the start.

How do you figure this? I don't see it. (also doesn't make much sense, cause they'd just recruit him right away)

[charter]

I'm rereading right now. I'm less sure about VP being town right now. I believe his wagon had all but one confirmed/certainly town people on it, worth another look down the road.


VP Baltar: 6 (

ekiM

,

iamausername, Ojanen

,

SerialClergyman

, Thesp,

Xylthixlm

, Elvis)

And after yesterday, Elvis looks pretty town. Granted, it could be mostly town since it happened in the span of one page. Another thing is VP was constantly unvoting tajo.


I pretty much agree with the plan Elvis suggested. I still don't see how ekim's role confirms him, but he has to be NK'ed at some point, so that eliminates that wifom.

[charter]

BTW, Reading the role PMs I think the mafia team know who the traitor is from the start.

How do you figure this? I don't see it. (also doesn't make much sense, cause they'd just recruit him right away)

The way the PMs are written as: Your buddies are: Mafia (??), Mafia (??), etc.

It looks like the "??" would stand for "goon" or "roleblocker" or "traitor."

I don't know what you're talking about recruiting. It looks to me like recruiting isn't a part of the way traitor works in this game. It seems like the traitor only knows who the GF is from the PM, but the whole rest of the team knows who the traitor is.

So basically I think one of rofl/Yos and Zu/Thesp is lovers and hte other is a GF/traitor pair.

Ah, ok. Last time I was a traitor, none of us knew the other and the scumteam had to 'NK' me to recruit me.

[charter]

Actually, I say we lynch zu faul right after Yos. Zu faul

was

clearly lying about his "thesp is a good citizen" statement, then when asked about it, he goes straight to accusing me of rolefishing. I think rofl took the claim zu faul wanted to fake, and he was forced to just claim vanilla. Plus, like Elvis said, he spent all of day one hindering everyone he could and has been generally scummy all game.

I think zu faul is much scummier than either pooky or VP. Both of them did eventually vote for tajo, which gives them each some town points.

Sorry about thinking you were scum all game Elvis. Need to go get my brain checked or something.

[charter]

I thought of something else. If rofl flips traitor, DON'T shoot Yosarian, Kmd. It's possible he's NK immune. Shoot whoever else.

[charter]

Not buying rofl's story.

[charter]

Um, why is rofl still alive? He claimed his results, I don't understand what the hold up is.

zu faul, I pushed for tajo's lynch harder than anyone but SC. Tajo flipped scum. I don't understand what the problem is here. And plus, if anyone but you seriously considers me scum (unlikely) I can always suicide and extend deadline! But since I didn't do that when we were threatening a no lynch with about ten hours until deadline, that's a pretty unlikely scenario.

Why am I wasting my breath.

[charter]

Thesp, why didn't you mention that rofl has to be lying, from your point of view? He said you weren't a vanilla, but you don't mention this. How come?

[charter]

unvote

[charter]

ekiM is saying that Yos is the godfather, that it makes sense to lynch him instead of rofl.

I am currently debating taking the surefire 100% scum in rofl, for the 99.9999999% scum in Yosarian.

[charter]

I dunno. I'm not convinced on the lynch Yos first plan. If you go back and look, the ONLY vote on Yos was Xyl's. This single vote prompted the softclaims from rofl.

It actually might be possible for rofl to be town, granted very likely. I dunno. Let me think about it some and I'll quit my waffling.

[charter]

vote rofl

I've thought about it, and if by some miracle Yos is town, lynching him today would probably be game over. I think we'll have an easy enough time finding all the scum lynching rofl today.

[charter]

unvote, vote Yosarian

Don't know what I was thinking last night, Yos has been very scummy this game.
Yos, are you scum?

[charter]

If rofl is town:

charter

ekiM

elvis_knits

Kmd4390

PookyTheMagicalBear

roflcopter

SerialClergyman

Thesp

VP Baltar

Yosarian2

zu_Faul

I include myself and ekim in this list, since we can easily confirm ourselves. I include SC since he's pretty much the towniest person here and he's most likely going to die protecting kmd.

I'm not buying this as our remaining four scum. I think Elvis is town, and I think Pooky is probably town.

I'd be willing to lynch zu Faul today as well, since he's guaranteed scum as well, but the probable twofer we're going to get by lynching Yosarian seems the best idea to me.

If kmd is taking vig requests, my vote is for zu faul (assuming we lynch one of rofl/yos and the other doesn't die) since he's by far the scummiest person still alive.

[charter]

I dunno. I think Yos is scum as well. I think he's been scummy most of the game and I'm more sure that at least one of pooky or elvis is town than Yos AND rofl both being town. rofl is obviously scum, since he's living through the nights, and the mountain of other things, but at the same time I think they're both scum, and it makes sense to lynch Yos first if you think they're both scum.

And plus, I doubt we'd have a goon cop and a vanilla cop.[/WIFOM]

So yeah, I'd prefer lynching Yos, but if enough people can't be convinced well before deadline, I'll switch to rofl. My heart can't take another repeat of yesterday.

[charter]

Now I'm super duper happy voting for Yos.

[charter]

Guys, we need to lynch Yos today. Yos and rofl are both going to vote rofl and we'll lose out on the twofer.

Yos also ignored my question asking him if he's scum. He knows he can't fake it anymore.

[charter]

Is there any chance of a Yos lynch today?

If not, I'll just hammer. No need to drag the day out.

[charter]

Ugh, lynching Yos is far superior to rofl.

I think ekim will vote Yos, so that makes four. Elvis and Pooky, will you guys vote Yos? or are you sticking with rofl?

[charter]

ekim is right, Yos is clearly lying about going back and forth between tajo. He's also lurking massively today.

We should really be lynching Yos...

[charter]

Fine

unvote, vote rofl

[charter]

Dang guys, wait for me!

vote Zu Faul

kmd, you should vig tonight, since you're probably going to die tonight.

[charter]

vote Thesp

Farewell Kmd. We should have a moment of silence to mourn him.

[charter]

Thesp, some reasons why I'm voting you, since I neglected to say anything in my post.

Zu Faul's 'Thesp is a good citizen', which you and him both proceeded to accuse me of fishing. Also, the fact that Zu Faul was vouching for you. (enough to lynch you on right now)

Pushed for the Pooky lynch over the tajo lynch. (also enough to lynch you for)

You quickhammered Zu Faul yesterday before he posted, which I'm pretty sure you know is anti town and I don't see why you would do it if you were town. I do see you doing it as scum to try and earn town points since everyone was saying 'Let's lynch this Thesp guy next!'

Really the only reservation I have about lynching you is your constant calling for the vigging of Yos, which is also anti town, and then rofl calling you out for it. It's another triangle of not much sense. Kind of like the tajo/rofl/yos triangle we had before tajo flipped scum. Too many triangles in this game for my liking.

As far as your reads. I highly doubt Pooky is scum. Scum piled on him real fast after tajo started getting votes. Plus, Pooky keeps saying he is town, seems pretty convincing. I think Elvis is town too.

I will, however,

unvote

and take another look at Balter, since he's the only other person besides yourself I would consider lynching.

[charter]

Yeah, Pooky said it best. Thesp so scum.

vote Thesp

[charter]

Pretty sure you're at L-1.

[charter]

Yeah, I think it was fake too.

[charter]

Some other things Thesp can explain if he wants me to unvote him are:

• Why you hammered zu faul before he posted ('I thought he was scum' isn't an answer)
  
• Why you accused me of fishing when zu faul said you were town
  
• Why you didn't vote for tajo, when if he was town, that meant there was a 5/6 chance you were scum.
  
• Why you "weren't sure that I'd take a populartajo lynch over no lynch"

[charter]

Pooky needs to get in here and post a ton of substantial thoughts.

I'll treestump, but not this second. Not much of a rush, we're going to have four weeks, it'd be a shame to blow this game now.

[charter]

Ok, I'm gonna work on a full reread and try and break it up in to smaller chunks, some of these to include:

BAB lynch
Balter
Rest of day two
tajo claim
tajo lynch
Thesp's last words

If there are some other amazing categories, let me know and I'll work on that. Not posting any of my thoughts before Pooky does some serious posting, I suggest everyone else wait as well, just going to save it to notes.

[charter]

Yeah, you're going to have to post a lot more than that.

[charter]

Yaus

[charter]

What are you talking about?

[charter]

More words Pooky. It's probably going to take specific posts and whatnot before I stop bugging you.

[charter]

POOKY, WUR U AT?

[charter]

That last vote count is quite damning. Still working on my mini novel. It is including the possibility of Elvis being scum as well, since she was cleared before largely due to Thesp filling the position of fifth scumbag. Not sure how much scumminess she will turn up, but Balter, why write her off so fast?

Prolly have to wait until after the weekend to hear from our good friend Pooky...

[charter]

What also doesn't make sense, is if Elvis is town, how did you get like nine townie votes on you, if you're also supposedly town.

[charter]

Seriously?

[charter]

Yeah, this is kind of ridiculous. Don't want to rush, and still want to read, but still... Come on Pooky.

[charter]

Oh Snap! We got ourselves a game now. Pooky, what do you have to say about this?

[charter]

I think the fact that nearly the entirity of the wagon took place over a page when none of the known scum had even posted has to be taken into account. Like I said before, I can't really fault anyone for finding me scummy because of that (and my somewhat shitty play up to that point), because I know I certainly would if I didn't know my alignment, but it also wasn't your average wagon either.

Contrast that with the Pooky wagon which had a slower build and many benefits to a scum team built like a shaky house of cards, and then ask yourself which situation does it seem more likely for scum to quick hammer in.

This doesn't make you look very good though. You managed to get most of the town voting you. I didn't buy in to the reasoning at the time. Instead, I started up a Xyl wagon, which blossomed due to having all the scum on it. This makes you look 100 times more suspicious because scum had a nice big juicy wagon on you, and then proceeded to ignore you then lynch the hell out of Xyl. It almost seems like they wanted to keep you alive. Since that wagon, you've come under virtually no scrutiny.

I am definitely not voting until after rereading the game.

[charter]

Pretty scummy question EK. Whole reason I haven't stumped yet was to try and catch scum quickhammering. Quickhammering is really the only reason I can think why you would want to know. Or did you have something else in mind?

[charter]

Say if you were scum, and you forgot I was still alive, and you posted "bwahahaha, hammer". Jig is up, but no one gets lynched.

Good point about me talking about voting. Had actually forgotten that I can't vote. Makes me look pretty hypocritical but I was thinking I was pretty clever trying to catch a quickhammer.

But your question isn't scummy. Forgot that I'm not voting haha. Was too caught up in my plan.

[charter]

It seemed like a much better idea in my head.

[charter]

I can't believe I'm saying it, but I think Balter is the scum.

[charter]

Pooky, where was all this during the days one through six?

[charter]

Ok, just finished rereading day one. Gut screams Balter is scum like whoa. Alexhans was a nonentity. EK seemed town. Went after Zu pretty hard, but never really tries throughout the game to lynch him.

I'm not doing the novel I'd planned, way too much work and no one will get anything from it anyway.

[charter]

POOKY, WHY DID YOU WANT TO LYNCH ME DAY TWO?

[charter]

OOOOOKKK....

Elvis, I suggest you read page 27 read hard. Look at the tag team of mudslinging rofl and Balter do to ekim.

Balter's responses to ekim's case was basically to try and cast suspicion back on ekim, not to alleviate mikes suspicion of him.

Plus, the scum's reactions to the Balterwagon are pretty damning. rofl flat out chainsaws the hell out of SC, tajo is MIA, Yos continues whatever lines he was talking about earlier, says something about Balter is his third lynch choice. zu faul promptly joins the ekim wagon at the first opportunity, which is the largest rival wagon at the time. rofl also jumps on the burgeoning Xyl wagon.

Also, 921 by Yos, I'm pretty sure he'd be going after Balter way harder than that if Balter was town.

Page 38 now.

[charter]

I am pretty sure that if Balter wasn't scum, Yos would have voted him after Balter claimed vanilla. Pretty sure.

Anyhow, continuing reading where I left off.

[charter]

And your point about Zu's statement, Elvis, is another really good one.

[charter]

Ugh, my play day two is atrocious. ATROCIOUS!

Page 42 is another worth reading carefully Elvis, The votecount shows a clear preference of the scum to not lynch Balter. I'm REALLY having a hard time thinking up a way that Balter isn't scum here. This is pretty much regardless of Pooky's play. Pooky hadn't really done anything, but Balter is really scummy based off the actions of the other dead scumbags.

[charter]

Sorry for spamming the thread, but I need to remind myself to go back and look at Yos and see how he emerged to prefer Xyl. I want to see who his first and second lynch choices were when Balter was the third and see if Xyl was on his radar, or if Xyl just jumped to the top because the Xyl lynch would take the steam out of the Balter lynch.

PLUS, double bonus here, Ojanen was killed night two, and she was arguably the biggest proponent of the Balter lynch.

I'm just kind of posting important things I see as they come to me while rereading.

[charter]

1151, hard defense of Balter by Yos.

1173, another defense of Balter by Yos. This one making NO SENSE at all if they aren't scumbuddies.

1176, Lulz. Defense by rofl.

1182, Getting ridiculous here, defense of Balter by zu faul.

This was all beginning of day three.

1250, Finally! The defense of Balter by tajo.

I seriously do not think it possible for Balter to be town, get run up to L-1 entirely by townies, AND NONE OF THE SCUM "THINK" HE IS SCUM. I am pretty sure nothing like this has ever happened in the history of the universe. Never.

1341, Balter subscribes to the false dilemma theory of rofl/username.

1347, Balter attacks SC while defending rofl.

Page 55 now, don't feel like reading any more right now.

Balter, I know you're reading what I'm writing, you should probably respond to it. Same with what Elvis is writing.

Elvis, who are you leaning towards being the scumbag currently? Can I get a real short list of reasons as well?

[charter]

No, but why suggest you might be getting bussed if he knows you're town?

Yeah, slip up by zu faul.

[charter]

Hmmm, most of the points I find against you is a coordinated effort by scum to halt suspicion on you, so not really something you can defend. It should be noted that they did this for each other plenty, and never did it to anyone else. They kind of all said a few people were town, but those people never had much real suspicion or votes on them, and magically are all town! They never did say you were town though.

You can respond to this.

Balter's responses to ekim's case was basically to try and cast suspicion back on ekim, not to alleviate mikes suspicion of him.

And explain how your defense was good.

[charter]

1356, faul subscribes to the lynch pooky/charter instead of user/rofl

page 56, I am confident that Elvis is town. She is being extremely confrontational with the scum, seems impossible if she was scum.

1444, Oh Balter... Yeah, I'm really not seeing a way that Balter is town here.

1512, zu faul jumps to Pooky. Votecount at this point was an absolute mess though, like a four way tie at two votes.

Top of 62 now.

[charter]

1699, Balter realizes that tajo is going down, but throws out no lynch and says he's going to have to decide. He has also missed pretty much all of the past five or so pages. Pretty sure by this time no one is considering no lynch.

1752, Balter waffles on tajo after Pooky gets some more votes.

Yeah, Balter is really trying to find a way to not lynch tajo.

1784, Balter tries saying they both could be scum, though doesn't hammer Pooky.

Beginning of day four, Balter is very quiet. Everyone else was clamoring for a speedy lynch of rofl, or else for a speedy lynch of Yos. Balter's posts weren't either of those. He was still kind of going on about Pooky.

1904, Another slip by zu faul. Says kmd should vig Pooky. Doesn't mention Balter.

Thesps last post raises a good point, about VP's 'fine with getting vigged comment'. That was giving me a great deal of pause, but I think Balter has to be a NK immune GF.

Still on thesp's post on page 80, gotta run.

[charter]

Finished.

I actually think it's Balter. Still can't believe I'm saying that. Elvis, what do you think, since it's who think that matters?

[charter]

Not really, no.

[charter]

Well that is ridiculous.

Also, when are you going to stump?

When I am ready.

I'm going to see if I can make up a nice case on Balter, Pooky already did, I'll just try and capitalize and use full words and whatnot.

[charter]

POOKY, WHY DID YOU WANT TO LYNCH ME DAY TWO?

This is an important question, Pooky.

[charter]

This is just starting from page 27, I don't think there is really anything before page 27.

ekim is creating a whole lot of noise, but i'm unclear on what any of it has actually accomplished aside from detracting from the attention clergyman should be getting.

more serialclergyman votes please. vp baltar should come back to the wagon. yos2 should join us as well. and all you nonvoters need to get off your butts and do something.

serialclergyman has the official roflcopter "this is a solid wagon" seal of approval

This is right after ekim and Balter are going back and forth.

Yos, this is the second time you're on, why are you failing to comment on the pretty dramatic turn of VP related matters? Seems that you're just picking any negative comment against you from the thread and retorting to those.

This is true, happens after the Balter-1 page.

VP Baltar's wagon grew way too fast to not suspect some baleful influence (well, this is somewhat regardless of his alignment - scum would want to be on that wagon either way). The way he attacks ekiM somewhat clears VP for me (a bit like with serialclergyman). His somewhat random attacks on me don't look too much like scum either.

This is pretty solid against Balter. If Balter was town, zu faul would just say, 'oh, Balter is obviously town, scum are on his wagon' kind of like what I said. Instead, he throws in the qualifier that scum are on Balter's wagon, independent of Balter's alignment. This allows him to accuse others of bussing when Balter flips scum. If Balter was town, he wouldn't need this qualifier. I don't think Zu faul put it in to trick us or play mind games either, I haven't seen anything in his play to suggest that, while there is quite a bit to suggest that it is a slip, such as Thesp is a good citizen and whatnot.

Anyway, doing a re-read of VP baller's posts now...I'm not really impressed by his scumhunting in general. I don't really get his attack on Iamusername at all, his vote for B&B was understandable but not based on much. His case on ekiM is more reasonable, but I kind of have a gut feeling at the moment that eikM might be town.

All in all, I could see lynching VP today. He wouldn't be my first choice, or my second, but his play in general looks pretty weak to me.

For the record, his first two choices are Serial and Kmd. Note that Xyl is currently hovering at 5-9th most suspicious (which can be seen in post 836).

i really don't like the baltar wagon. serialclergyman had a serious case of having his cake and eating it too in posts 772-773. joining the baltar wagon, and the turning around and slinging mud at ekim for joining the baltar wagon? i don't think there's a more obvious way to admit that you know the wagon you're on is bullshit.

Chainsaws Balter pretty hard.

Post 880, Yos joins the Xyl wagon right after rofl. All his suspicions above Xyl have magically disappeared, including Balter.

As for the VP claim debate, no vanilla town should ever claim vanilla town, except possibly in a mass-claim; claiming vanilla town in response to pressure is just an anti-town thing to do. It's not a very reliable scumtell, because it is a mistake pro-town people do make fairly often (B&B did it in this very game), but it certainly is another point against VP.

This is what Yos says about VP claiming vanilla, about eight pages after it happened. Pretty sure he normally lynches claimed vanillas, but don't make me go find evidence for that.

Ugh, rest of the case is my post 2113, 2118, 2119. Should be pretty self explanatory.

[charter]

Balter, your play is not really the reason I am suspicious of you. It is that ALL FOUR of the other scumbags acted like you were their buddy.

The play of yours I find questionable is how you tried to pull a no lynch over a tajo lynch. No lynch would have been, unquestionably, the worst play of that day. You did try really hard to not lynch tajo. Then you try saying they both could be scum. Of course, for you to try and pull this off, you have to lynch tajo first, which you finally went with. But even then, you still say you'll jump over to Pooky first chance you get.
There's other stuff of yours I find scummy, but I'm pretty sure Elvis won't see it the way I do, so no sense in explaining it and weakening the already air tight case against you.

Plus, I highly doubt Pooky is scum. All of the scum tried lynching him, but none of them had good reasons. If Pooky was scum, and we lynched him over tajo, WE'D JUST LYNCH TAJO THE NEXT DAY! There was literally no way they could keep their fakeclaims going if we lynched Pooky and he was scum.

[charter]

Ok, this was the votecount 11 hours before deadline

PookyTheMagicalBear: 6 (iamausername, populartajo, roflcopter, Thesp, Yosarian2, zu_Faul)
populartajo: 6 (charter, ekiM, elvis_knits, Kmd4390, SerialClergyman, VP Baltar)
iamausername: 1 (PookyTheMagicalBear)

Now, I'm going to see if it is at all possible for the scum to have faked their claims another day if Pooky is scum. I doubt I'm going to get this right the first time, so please point out errors/faulty assumptions.

So, if Pooky was scum, this is what I see happening.
Serial gets NK'ed night three, most likely protecting Kmd. I don't think username would be killed, since that would be a HUGE blow against rofl being town.
tajo would have to hide again, say he hid behind zu faul.
Rofl would have to investigate again, investigate Thesp.
Then, there would be the following people cleared: tajo, charter, rofl, yos, balter, zu faul, thesp, kmd.

The people still living would be: user, ekim, elvis
Frankly, this is a complete and total unwinnable situation for them. It wouldn't be LYLO, so we could lynch ekim, then when he flips town, have him venge kill tajo, and that would be game over.

Even if I'm more constraining with the theoretical night actions, I still don't think it leaves any way for them to win.
Serial still gets NK'ed. Really no other choice. Killing anyone but him or ekim would raise huge question marks. Don't think it really matters which one.
tajo could hide behind rofl again.
rofl would still investigate, say thesp.
These people are cleared: tajo, charter, rofl, yos, balter, thesp, kmd
Leaving: user, ekim, elvis, zu faul

Once again, as soon as ekim gets lynched, it becomes obvious tajo is lying he gets venge killed.

The only thing I can see is if they try this.
Serial nightkilled.
tajo hides behind rofl.
rofl investigates elvis, says she isn't vanilla.
We lynch ekim, try and make him venge kill elvis, but not going to work, since there would be too many confirmeds to make up a scumteam. We'd still figure out that tajo has to be lying, venge kill him, and then steamroll the other scum.

Even in all my Pookyscum theories, if Serial isn't killed and ekim is (since I guess ekim is better in these situations), we can still lynch one of the unconfirmeds, but they're going to flip town and the jig will be up.

Possibly, this could happen.
ekim nightkilled
tajo hides behind rofl
rofl investigates zu faul, says he isn't a vanilla.
This would give us these people confirmed: tajo, charter, rofl, yos, balter, kmd
Leaving: elvis, serial, user, thesp
And supposed scum with zu faul.
We would probably lynch zu faul in this scenario.
Zu faul flips scum. Go to night four.
I am thinking the only way of doing this is if scum kill me.
These people would be confirmed: tajo, rofl, yos, balter, kmd
Leaving elvis, serial, user, thesp
Rofl would have say that elvis or thesp was scum, saying they are town won't leave enough people alive for the claims to check out.
Tajo could say he didn't hide.
Say we lynch elvis, flips town.
Leaves these people alive going in to the night. tajo, rofl, yos, balter, kmd, serial, user, thesp. This would mean they kill off serial here.
Day five would leave these people alive: tajo, rofl, yos, balter, kmd, user, thesp.
Rofl would be confirmed scum in day five, after elvis flips vanilla. By extension, tajo would, and Yos would die, game over, town wins.
There isn't a possible way for them to come out of this with a win.
The only thing I can think of, is if you take this same scenario, rofl says that thesp is town. We lynch elvis day four.
Leaves these people alive: tajo, rofl, yos, balter, kmd, serial, user, thesp
This would, I believe, be the absolute best possible scenario for scum to enter night four in. None of the claims have been false yet, and this would still leave a four person scum team.
Day five breaks, serial is dead.
tajo, rofl, yos, balter, kmd, user, thesp are alive, three scum alive.
They have to convince everyone that user and thesp are scumbuddies, and there is a roleblocker.

I can't see another scenario that would lead to them winning the game, other than this one right here.


Really the only Pookylynch scenario that makes sense is if Pooky is town and scum can pull off one more mislynch at some point in the game. I'm just not seeing it possible for Pooky to be scum and scum make up at least another day of fakeclaims.

[charter]

Oh wow, I went a little overboard there.

[charter]

I guess what I'm saying is, Balter needs to come up with a Pookyscum theory that would let scum win had Pooky been lynched day three. If he can't, then I don't see why we need to drag this game out much longer.

[charter]

Hmmm, might have another one.

ekim nightkilled.
Tajo hides behind rofl or doesn't hide.
rofl investigates Thesp, says he's vanilla.
These people would be confirmed: tajo, charter, rofl, yos, balter, kmd, Thesp
Leaving: elvis, serial, user, zu faul
We would lynch elvis.
Night four, scum have to kill off thesp or charter, say charter.
Day five would be these people alive: tajo, rofl, yos, balter, kmd, thesp, serial, user, zu faul.
Tajo doesn't hide.
rofl has to investigate zu faul. I suppose he could try and pull that zu faul is vanilla.
However, that would mean the scumteam would have to be serial, user, Pooky. Not gonna fly.
What if he says zu faul is not vanilla. Lynch Zu faul.
Night five scum would have to kill Thesp.
Day six, these people are alive: tajo, rofl, yos, balter, kmd, serial, user
They would have to try and pull a lynch on serial or user, saying the scumteam is serial, user, zu faul, pooky.

Still, doubt anyone is going to buy it. As this would mean that scum are killing off vanilla's instead of tajo or rofl or kmd, or any power roles. Pretty sure someone would have figured this out.

I REALLY don't think Pooky can be scum.

[charter]

Hmmm, what about.
ekim nightkilled
rofl investigates zu faul, innocent.
tajo doesn't hide.
Confirmed: tajo, charter, rofl, yos, balter, kmd, zu faul
Leaving: elvis, serial, user, thesp
Lynch Elvis or thesp, say elvis, she flips town.
rofl has to investigate thesp, pretend to get a guilty.
Nightkill charter.
Day breaks with these people alive: tajo, rofl, yos, balter, kmd, zu faul, serial, user, thesp
These people would be confirmed: tajo, rofl, yos, balter, kmd, zu faul
Would mean the scumteam would have to be thesp, serial, user, Pooky. Might be able to push a lynch on to thesp there and push the rest of that scumteam.

This is the most likely scenario I can come up with, still, I dunno. Completely implausible since Thesp and username were voting Pooky. Scum would have to say bussing, but yeah, don't think that would fly.

I think if Balter can't come up with a strategy for scum to win that's better than this one with Pooky being scum, than I think Balter is confirmed scum. This one right here is pretty shaky, but it's the best thing I could think of.

Like I said, point out things I'm missing, but I'm not sure I'm missing anything in this latest one. I think the pivotal things I assume are ekim absolutely must be nightkilled and rofl can only investigate claimed vanillas.

In order for this scenario to work, scum would have to make us believe that username and thesp bussed Pooky. This seems pretty ridiculous when either of them, especially username, could have voted tajo claiming that rofl's story conflicted with his. I dunno, it's just not making sense.

[charter]

Ok, was waiting for Elvis to make a decision.

I AM TREESTUMP

I wanted to come up with some clever post for that, but meh.

[charter]

ps GO TOWN!

[charter]

Well, Balter just confessed. Just waiting for pooky now.

[charter]

VOTE VP BALTER

!!!!!!!!!!!!

[charter]

The suspense is killing me...

[charter]

Sweet. Good job town! Wooo!

[charter]

Yeah Xyl, my play day two was completely wrong. Don't think anything I said was right. Only redeeming factor to lynching you was it greatly helped lynching Balter.

It just seemed that if you were town, you would have tried defending yourself before you were threatened to be lynched. I don't think I've ever played with you, so your behavior, to me, just looked really scummy, but I'll know next time. But yeah, my play day two was shameful.

As far as your decision to bus, Balter, I'm not sure hammering Pooky would have helped you guys, as you said. All my scenarios for if Pooky was scum (if anyone read them) would have been even more impossible if Pooky was actually town. We would have had no choice but to assume tajo was scum gambiting, and the game would pan out pretty much the same way. If you had hammered Pooky, we very well might have lynched you over Thesp in LYLO.

As far as the scumteam goes, that was insane. Mad props for that gambit, you had me fooled for a while. At first, when tajo claimed, I just decided I would believe it because it was plausible and it was so much easier to assume tajo was town.

And I agree that SC was pivotal in town winning this game, great job.

[charter]

Explain this to me. How was that a slip?

This was in reference to your 'scum would want to be on Balter's wagon regardless of his alignment'. It basically gives you a reason to vote the people voting Balter, regardless of how he flipped. I dunno, Elvis explained it pretty well day seven.