zu_Faul: 2 (charter, Kmd4390)
Not Voting: 6 (ekiM, elvis_knits, PookyTheMagicalBear, Thesp, VP Baltar, zu_Faul)
Then he spends many of his subsequent posts saying nothing about VP Baltar, and attacking Xylthixlm hard. When he discusses VP Baltar again, he says he'd be okay to lynch, but reaffirms it's not his first choice, and mildly affirms elvis_knits's hesitation at the speed of the wagon.Yosarian2 wrote:All in all, I could see lynching VP today. He wouldn't be my first choice, or my second, but his play in general looks pretty weak to me.
Again, simultaneously defending and weakly attacking - he does this again answering SerialClergyman:Yosarian2 wrote:I thought VP Baltar was scummy yesterday, but I'm really uncomfortable with the line of reasoning people are using. They're basically one of the below:
1. "There are two people who were attacking him yesterday who we now know are pro-town!" Translation: the scum killed someone last night who was attacking VP Balter yesterday, except no one seems to want to put it that way, I guess because if they did then it would be obvious that it was a weak WIFOM argument.
2. "A goon cop was voting him!" Do you really think she had a guilty on him? It seems pretty clear to me that she didn't, reading her posts. She didn't "waffle" on her initial vote, she came out hard against eikM and stayed there for a long time.
That being said, I'm really not happy with VP's level of contribution this game; he hasn't been lurking, but he hasn't really been scumhunting much either. VP, who do you think is scum, and why?
Later on, he attacks Pooky hard (when populartajo is being run up), but no other options are available.Yosarian2 wrote:No, VP's vanilla claim makes lynching him a lower risk, just like it did with bab. One difference, though, that now that we're down to 13 people with only 4 or 5 scum, it has become pretty crucial to lynch scum today; there is no longer such a thing as a safe lynch in this game.
roflcopter wrote:more serialclergyman votes please. vp baltar should come back to the wagon. yos2 should join us as well.
:!::!:roflcopter wrote:no but i might eat baltar'sSerialClergyman wrote:rofl, if I flipped town, would you eat your hat?
These comments look to me like he's setting himself up for possibly claiming to have investigated VP Baltarroflcopter wrote:I really don't like the baltar wagon. serialclergyman had a serious case of having his cake and eating it too in posts 772-773. joining the baltar wagon, and the turning around and slinging mud at ekim forjoining the baltar wagon? i don't think there's a more obvious way to admit that you know the wagon you're on is bullshit.
Later weakly attacks Pooky while it's one away from a lynch (as a third favorite preference):roflcopter wrote:while i'm on a posting roll here tonight, let me just mention how sneaky-scummy thesp has been of late. still sitting on a baltar vote, making sure i claimed before username, and AGAIN with the vig directing. there wasn't even a second kill last night! why are you wasting time discussing what the vig should do?
In fact, the Pookywagon was like this at the time with 7 to lynch: PookyTheMagicalBear: 6 (charter, elvis_knits,roflcopter wrote:kmd is apparently town, so if there's going to be a non-username lynch my preference falls to serialclergyman. or pooky, who does not inspire confidence with his outbursts.
Attacks people on wagon as much as he attacks VP, including later in this post:populartajo wrote:Liking the Ojanen baltar case. Ojanen points are strong and baltars responses (to iam also) are lacking. Disliking Baltar more and more as he answers. (I totally dislike excuses as I need sleep, my memory doesnt work) If fast, the wagon feels decent except for thesp and xyl. Fishy L-1.
Subsequent posts make little to no mention of VP Baltar, and heavily attack Xylthixlm, who would become the lynch du jour.populartajo wrote:Elvis, so why did you vote Baltar?elvis wrote:And I am most suspicious of ekiM, xyl, iam, kmd, serial. Top three are pretty close in terms of order.
Also attacks charter for doubting roflcopter:populartajo wrote:Third, the Baltar wagon has its merits but I think people are suspecting Baltar for the wrong reasons which makes me want to reread him, the case against him and decide the fate of this avenue. This day, some of the points against him are weak. For example, the impression I got from yesterday was that the Xyl wagon was not produced by a baltar wagon derailment. Xyl himself was the one who deactivated the wagon by a)trying to switch it to Yos and b)looking super scummy. Serial argument considering Xyltown must mean Baltarscum is something I also dislike.
All the people that voted Baltar over Xyl. Why was Baltar more scummy than Xyl? Why did you have a town read on Xyl?
It's this that pulls the hider claim from populartajo - it seems odd that charter-as-mafia-partner would ahve goaded him into it.populartajo wrote:WTF?
Rofl is town.
Big FOS : Charter and KMD.
In fact, when charter preses him later on this, he uses it as an excuse to attack charter.zu_Faul wrote:I think Thesp is a good citizen.
...then the later promised post:zu_Faul wrote:I don't have time right now, I had a guest over the weekend who stays until tonight. I only skimmed the VP arguments; look closer at them tonight.
This is another instance where scum have used the "scum-driven quickwagon" fear that has proven entirely unfounded (as the whole wagon was pro-town, with the possible exception of one of {Ekim, elvis_knits, Thesp}). It seems like they're saying "Boo! Go away!" to me.zu_Faul wrote:VP Baltar's wagon grew way too fast to not suspect some baleful influence (well, this is somewhat regardless of his alignment - scum would want to be on that wagon either way). The way he attacks ekiM somewhat clears VP for me (a bit like with serialclergyman). His somewhat random attacks on me don't look too much like scum either.
His later posts return to pushing hard on SerialClergyman and Ekim. When he does return to pushing for Pooky, it's always "Pooky or charter", until populartajo's claim. Then he pushes for Pooky, then backs off thinking roflcopter can clear him (!), then gets back on once populartajo is the alternative.zu_Faul wrote:Pooky has done nothing to easy my suspicions. His argument against VP Baltar is: "Well, Goon Cop voted him." Also, he is trying to misinterpret KMD. It looks like he grabs whatever argument is conveniently lying around, regardless of its value, instead of actual scumhunting.
(This in response to Xylthixlm's assertion that Yosarian2 is scum as well.)charter wrote:This statement makes no sense and is scummy to boot. Why do you have to swoop down for a quickhammer? How are Yos and VP scumbuddies at all?
charter wrote:Vote tajo
I think kmd/tajo are scum. Tajo has escaped all scrutiny but does not look his normal town self, at all. I will try and elaborate later.
Later, this:charter wrote:What do you think of tajo then? Town or scum?Kmd4390 wrote:Am not.
charter wrote:Fine
unvote, vote Roflcopter
...seems odd for scum to do in this situation. He later pushes for Pooky and defends roflcopter. It's only later that he switches to populartajo with"charter wrote:I'm pretty much lost in this game, I really don't know if it's one of rofl/iaun, but it seems as if iaun isn't going to be lynched, and I don't really think there's going to be that many vanillas left anyway.
@Thesp, no, I'm not convinced at all.
...which pushes significantly towards the lynch and roflcopter/Yosarian's eventual demise. He also notes:charter wrote:F*** it
unvote, vote tajo
In reading charter, while I occasinally had disagreements with some of his reads, I'm having a hard time believing he would be scum with our confirmed scums - his pushes are pretty darn big hits against scum, and go against the seeming scum MO this game of "ignore each other and/or assert each other as town".charter wrote:zu faul doesn't want to lynch tajo, which makes me like it more.
elvis_knits wrote:Yeah, why is Yos beating a dead horse over kmd business and ignoring the VP Baltar drama?
elvis_knits wrote:Yeah, this is the first time I've really felt that Yos was acting scummy. Continuing to latch onto the kmd stuff is pretty pointless. There comes a time when both people have said everything they can on the matter. Yos can still think KMD is scum, but continuing to argue about it is sort of pointless. And doing something pointless instead of commenting on some dramatic events looks like he's purposely staying out of it and hoping that either the lynch will go through before he has to commit, or that he can come in later after the town has decided and blend in with what the majority are saying.
Later seems to go back on this (?):elvis_knits wrote:I do not like Yos piling on here. He admits himself that this is not a reliable scum tell but is using it as a point against VP. Contradiction much?
In her next list, she haselvis_knits wrote:Well, I hear Yos is town, so... wtf.
She also defends against a roflcopter lynch:elvis_knits wrote:I also don't see why you need to keep it a secret if you have a guilty on him before he claims. If he's scum, he's scum. If you just want to watch him fake claim for fun... I don't see the point in that. It's just holding us up at this point.
She then waffles back on the thought of roflcopter being scum:elvis_knits wrote:I guess you're right. I just am having a hard time choosing. I guess the right choice is to lynch rofl, but I think he's town. Therein lies my problem.
elvis_knits wrote:I guess when I think through all the possibilities, it is most likely that rofl is scum gambitting to save buddy yos. And they're likely lovers. Or yos is lovers with someone else and rofl took the chance to save scum lovers. Otherwise it doesn't make sense for rofl to put his neck out there.
I am still slightly resistant to that idea because I <3 rofl and I haven't thought he was scum all game. But if he flips town, then we have two confirmed innocents in yos and VP. And if he flips scum then we may get a lover suicide in Yos, or we lynch yos tomorrow and we get whoever his lover is to suicide. Because if rofl is scum, Yos probably is too. No other reason for rofl to gambit like that.
To her credit, she then pusheselvis_knits wrote:I seriously am contemplating lynching someone outside of the iam/rofl problem because I do think it's possible that they're both town and iamausername was blocked. But it's probably smarter to go with an rofl lynch because there is a lot for us to gain either way: dead scum/scum lovers, or two confirmed innocents.
She also notes this on Yosarian2, who jumps to the top of her list:elvis_knits wrote:OMG
I just had a seriously awesome revelation (if I do say so myself).
Rofl was all about the bridges lynch, even after he claimed vanilla. Which made sense to me at the time... I agreed. But if his role has the specific ability to detect vanilla, don't you think he would have wanted to check bridges instead? Or possibly wavered since he knew he had the specific ability to prove bridges right or wrong?
ROFL: Why did you favor lynching vanilla bridges if you have the ability to check vanilla status?
(Notably, if sheelvis_knits wrote:I really really want to know what Yos is going to say about whether or not he thought rofl was a PR after yesterday.
Pooky wrote:hmm
unvote
tajo totally scumbag
done.
Pooky wrote:lawls
xyl so scum
vote xyl
Pooky wrote:wait i just reread tajo's pos.
"Im preparing a big post for tonight with wagon analysis and such. I think I have a decent idea of at least two scum with how things went out yesterday.
In the meanwhile Ill contribute with the Pookyhate. Post or perish. "
that got me giggling a little.
So all three players voting me either have solid scumreads on TWO other players or a decent idea, but are choosing to hatevote a noncontributor without even explaining what they want me to contribute?
Pooky wrote:i believe rofl over iam.
I would lynch Iam today and rofl if Iam flips town.
And this when the populartajo wagon is near completion:Pooky wrote:I believe rofl over iam because iam feels fishy to me and I think he basically bungled a counterclaim. Plus rofl just feels townish to me. plus I don't like how he decided to play his jailkeeper role tho that could be just personal preference.
...then later only when pressed on it:PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:this game really sucks
cuz i think tajo is town
but I KNOW i am town.
=/
I don't think anyone would realistically say they've thought Pooky's participation has been pro-town. He's also been consistently wrong on his reads, and favored confirmed town as scum.Pooky wrote:unvote
vote tajo
im really innocent.
really!
He doesn't revisit zu_Faul or Yosarian2 for some time later, though does press Ekim. Later when Yosarian2 and Xylthixlm have a back-and-forth (and while VP is at a large wagon), VP says this (preemptively?):VP Baltar wrote:ekiM and zu_faul are also acceptable lynches. I might back a Yos lynch based on his seeming switch in stance on the Kmd/EK thing, but I can't really speak to all the meta business since I've never played with him.
He also continues to hammer away at Xyl and Ekim, ignoring zu_Faul and Yosarian2. When the IAAUN/roflcopter debate arises, he's firmly pro-roflcopter:VP Baltar wrote:Out of the Yos and Xyl in the last pages, I find myself agreeing with Yos more (here come the buddying accusations).
He's voting for Pooky near the end of D3, then pushes the No Lynch option as an alternative to a populartajo lynch. When pressed by charter, he says:VP Baltar wrote:I also disagree with the logic that IAAUN scum would never claim like he did. If he believed rofl was a real PR, then why not try and get him, especially if he believed he was some sort of investigator.
...
If I had to pick one of their lynches it would be iam for the Yos push and I'm more inclined to believe rofl based on my own role (though, again, that could have been easily manufactured given I had already claimed).
It looks like he's trying to garner favor with charter here.VP Baltar wrote:However, I think you may be right, and you're one of the few people I've consistently seen as town this game, so I'm more inclined to follow you.
Vote: tajo
This doesn't look like someone who wants the tajo lynch. He later unvotes from the wagon, and when he returns to it, he pushes for Pooky as preferable:VP Baltar wrote:I fully admit that I'm unsure about it and any lynch on you is mostly because I think charter and EK have made some good points.
That being said, I'm unsure about Pooky as well. Yes, he doesn't have much that points to him being town in this game, but isn't his meta to play like that? I've never played with him before, but that was the impression I was under.
This quote also bothers me after the bodyguard has died:VP Baltar wrote:I'm going to bed now. I think I should be up before deadline tomorrow, but just in case. Vote: tajo (again). If it gets down to deadline though and no one seems to be showing up to save the day, I would also switch to pooky. Anyhow, night.
If VP Baltar is a roleblocker (unlikely?) or a NK-Immune GF, he has zero risk from this possibility.VP Baltar wrote:And ftr, I'm fine with being vigged. Honestly, my bad play early on has made me waaaay too scummy to be useful. Obviously, it is best to vig scum, but if I am going to be a hinderance in an endgame scenario I'd rather be dead.
Yosarian2 wrote:Doing a re-read on ojanen now. Re-reading her, I doubt she investigated either eikM or VP; early in day 2 she voted eikM, and didn't mention VP, and later in day 2 she voted VP and didn't mention eikM.
roflcopter wrote:i don't think there's any chance that ojanen investigated baltar
3 scum were quick to point out that they didn't think Ojanen had a result. I think this was deliberate discreditation - on D2, Ojanen opens with:zu_Faul wrote:I got a feeling Baltar is not the way to go. I doubt he was investigated by Ojanen. She did not even mention him until others voiced their suspicions of him.
She makes some posts answering Ekim, then later reverses position andOjanen wrote:I'm going for Mike for now.
vote: ekiM
I didn't remember this.charter wrote:Really the only reservation I have about lynching you is your constant calling for the vigging of Yos, which is also anti town, and then rofl calling you out for it.
I'm not sure that's a fair accusation - I had some time I could contribute, so I did.elvis_knits wrote:Well thesp, I appreciate the effort you have finally put into this game when your ass is numero uno on the chopping block.