Open 81 - The New C9 - Game Over

[Korts]

Oh hey.

Vote: roflcopter

Trying to force town into tunnel vision.

[Korts]

BTW, whoever killed killa seven, nice job, I salute you.

[Korts]

korts you of all people should know i'm always right, now stop being obstinate and answer the question.

what harm can there be from having everyone say which of the two they find scummier? i did not ask people to immediately vote, you'll notice.

No, you're always right

eventually

. Now stop singling out armlx and strife based on two posts each. You're directing all attention at them, that's what's harmful in the longer term.

[Korts]

i repeat, what harm can there be from having everyone say which of the two they find scummier?

The harm? Well, the harm is that after half a page of random discussion, you seem decided that the lynch should be one of the two, and you're essentially trying to force everyone, with this question, to choose one of the two whether or not they think someone else is scummier.

do you not realize that when everyone answers this question the first couple of pages will be a figurative goldmine of information to go through later after future alignment reveals?

That is by no means an excuse for directing the whole town's suspicions.

you are trying to prevent something that can only help the town, and you're refusing to participate in it.

I refuse to participate in it because I'd rather not choose either of the two while you're scummier.

[Korts]

um, wow, no random voting stage? To be fair, I honestly feel like

voting roflcopter

here because quite honestly, armix's post doesn't look like rolefishing, it looks like an honest defense to what looks like a ridiculous crusade on your part that takes up half of page 1.

Read before you write. The rolefishing is not in any kind of relation to rofl's pressure on armlx. What rofl calls rolefishing is the that armlx immediately asked why rofl considered Iron Man to be innocent, which could be taken the way of wanting to out an investigation result.

i really hope that armlx himself isn't the only one in this game who is experienced enough to realize i just caught him blatantly rolefishing.

Not that blatant, I think. True, there's reason in your point, but you're blowing it out of proportion.

greasy spot, forbiddanlight: why ignore the question i asked? please answer it.

Greasy Spot, Forbiddanlight, don't answer if you don't feel that either of armlx/strife is the scummiest so far in the game.

[Korts]

Greasy Spot, Forbiddanlight, don't answer if you don't feel that either of armlx/strife is the scummiest so far in the game.

Why should that affect their inclination to answer? If they think someone else is scummier, I'm sure they're perfectly capable of saying so.

I just think if rofl keeps pushing for answers to the question, and I keep pushing against it, the effect will be for efforts to be nullified and the people's voice to be heard untarnished.

[Korts]

just to clarify, my vote for strife was complete and utter bullshit, whereas my vote for armlx was not, and the reason i paired them and asked who was scummier was to see who was gonna try and keep the attention off of armlx by saying strife when strife really hasn't done anything wrong.

korts went one step further by vehemently denying the whole attempt to draw out information.

obviously nobody is going along with my request at this point, so i'm just gonna point out now that korts/armlx working so hard to shoot it down is another thing that makes me all but positive that armlx is scum and reasonably sure korts is one of his partners.

i really hope that armlx himself isn't the only one in this game who is experienced enough to realize i just caught him blatantly rolefishing.

Not that blatant, I think. True, there's reason in your point, but you're blowing it out of proportion.

DON'T misrepresent me, buster. You're gonna get in trouble. You're untouchable for today, but there's the remote (very remote) chance of this being a scum gambit. So DON'T misrepresent me.

@iamausername, you may think its a stupid trap, but it worked. when someone says "player x is obvtown" at the start of day one, and someone else says "why?" the only answer they're looking for or thinking is "because i'm a town power role duh."

Eh, I can kind of see where you're coming from, but I think it's equally possible that a pro-town player would ask that because they don't want to let anyone set a precedent of making statements about other people's alignments without anything to back them up.

Unvote, Vote: Korts

, by the way. I can't see a pro-town reason to object so strongly to this line of questioning.

No, you don't understand. I don't object to the question, I object to the phrasing and the insistence that everyone choose one out of the two. Basically, I object to the false dichotomy that our choice is either strife or armlx. But this point is irrelevant now anyway.

roflcopter's #14 is a big fat scum tell to me, and the only way he can know for sure that Iron Man is town is if he is either scum or cop, the latter of which is idiotic. The post after his asks why he thinks so, and he shoots it off as saying the question is scummy and refuses to explain why said question is such.

If his first post started with the words "I think" or "I'm pretty sure that" and he backed himself up, this would be a different story, but neither is the case here.

Vote: roflcopter

This post makes my scumsenses tingle. Why aren't you even considering a town gambit? Oh, you add something referencing it, three minutes later. It's like you didn't want to be seen desperately throwing shit:

EBWOP: I don't buy roflcopter's defense that armlx was rolefishing, either.

Actually, though, that's not a defense, that's an accusation.

[Korts]

EBWOP: dammit, I wanted to paste this reply to quotes under this part:

Hot damn, rofl that was a reckless thing to do.

unvote: roflcopter

[Korts]

Actually, I'm inclined to vote StrangerCoug too.

[Korts]

i'd rather lynch armlx but apparently i'm alone in that.

i'm also willing to lynch blakadder for opportunistic voting and strangercoug for obvscummery.

you're welcome, everyone, for thrusting this game immediately into hardcore awesome mode.

It was already in awesome mode without you claiming. Thanks, though. I guess...

[Korts]

Vote: forbiddanlight

You're not willing to start a bandwagon, but will be jumping on it if it has momentum? Preemptively justifying any opportunism? Just die.

[Korts]

armlx, you just aren't going to admit that making legitimate points against you like rolefishing and poisoning the well make this obviously not omgus, are you?

I don't think a single person here agrees with you on the role fishing part, as evidenced by the fact you were wagoned to claim after your posts about it.

Whoa man. No he wasn't. He wasn't wagoned to claim, he claimed because Lowell asked the masons to claim and he happened to be one.

[Korts]

Yay! Points! Are they edible?

[Korts]

they can be traded in for cookies at a rate of 3 for 1.

so you're one point away from your first cookie!

Double yays! Cookies! [/OT]

[Korts]

How many posts are on forbiddanlight at this point, by the way?

The word "posts" should be "votes". My apologies.

I don't know, I'm lazy to count.

[Korts]

he claimed because Lowell asked the masons to claim and he happened to be one.

In that case, he is just dumb for listening to Lowell.

And this (rofl being dumb/listening to Lowell) puts rofl's claim in a completely different place on the time scale, basically nullifying your point that you were trying to prove with the "wagon to claim" statement:

armlx, you just aren't going to admit that making legitimate points against you like rolefishing and poisoning the well make this obviously not omgus, are you?

I don't think a single person here agrees with you on the role fishing part, as evidenced by the fact you were wagoned to claim after your posts about it.

Because listening to Lowell about the mason claim isn't even remotely linked to the rolefishing point.

[Korts]

*eats Cookie*

I win, I'm going home now. G'night, folks, that's all for today!

[Korts]

I also get the whole deal with Vamp. Seems really opprotunistic given his poting history.

FoS Vamp

.

More later.

lol i keep screwing myself over

Wanna answer iamausername's question?

[Korts]

I also get the whole deal with Vamp. Seems really opprotunistic given his poting history.

FoS Vamp

.

More later.

lol i keep screwing myself over

Wanna answer iamausername's question?

No wait, that was Greasy Spot, sorry.

[Korts]

vote Vamparific

The case against forbiddanlight looks good too.

Guys, no. Reasons, reasons, reasons. Don't be a hypocrite. You're wagoning Vamp for wagoning forbiddan for wanting to wagon StrangerCoug.

Make a case.

unvote, vote: Sun Tzu

[Korts]

vote Vamparific

The case against forbiddanlight looks good too.

Guys, no. Reasons, reasons, reasons. Don't be a hypocrite. You're wagoning Vamp for wagoning forbiddan for wanting to wagon StrangerCoug.

Make a case.

unvote, vote: Sun Tzu

I thought it was obvious.

"lol i keep screwing myself over" reads like a confession to me, as in "oops, I keep getting caught as scum."

I can buy that explanation, for now.

Mostly what I already brought up. And fix your quotes in another post, PLEASE. You seem to think my reasons for voting you and vamp are the same. They aren't, and I have much more substantiation with Vamp (which still isn't much, but it's D1). Your case is mostly intuition, meaning I'd basically rather wait, as you say, to see what others thing to see what my intuition is going off on, since I can't seem to find much else than what I actually put down for my reasons for FoSing you. I think that covers it.

Or you could've gone and researched SC (StrangerCoug FYI) to see if your intuition was right. Playing mafia takes a little effort sometimes, but you could actually take ten minutes to search for something specifically scummy instead of citing intuition. And

this

is why my vote goes back to you.

unvote, vote: forbiddanlight

By the way, Lowell, adding reason to your argument always helps. That advice doesn't go to Vamp and Sun Tzu only.

[Korts]

Meh, I don't know if I CAN make a case. I know what you say about intuition, but mine is rather frustrating as it's something I usually can't consciously pick out quickly. I'll relook it over (I did it once), but I don't think I'll get anywhere with that case. The case on Vamp, however, is not looking good in my eyes. He hasn't even TRIED to defend himself.

I can agree with the last part, at least. Vamp needs to answer the case against him, and I'd be interested to hear who his top suspects are.

unvote, vote: Vamp

Sigh. Looks like my vote's on world tour, it just doesn't want to settle down anywhere. There's always someplace better for it...

[Korts]

This is poor logic because there is 5 scum compared to 15 town. So even if you eliminate 1 town (the vig himself), it's still only a 5 in 19 chance of hitting scum, with a decent chance of hitting a town power role.

I will be happy to argue the logic behind N0 vigging outside the thread some other time, but for now no one should bring up the subject any more as it will give away who can't be the vig if people agree/disagree.

And with that, you've just given away that you're not the vig. Good job.

[Korts]

This is poor logic because there is 5 scum compared to 15 town. So even if you eliminate 1 town (the vig himself), it's still only a 5 in 19 chance of hitting scum, with a decent chance of hitting a town power role.

I will be happy to argue the logic behind N0 vigging outside the thread some other time, but for now no one should bring up the subject any more as it will give away who can't be the vig if people agree/disagree.

And with that, you've just given away that you're not the vig. Good job.

roflcopter, this is what rolefishing looks like.

Unvote, Vote: Korts

I'm sorry, how's that rolefishing? I didn't ask armlx to confirm this, and I didn't ask the vig to claim, nor did I imply that it should be done. I call BS, boy.

[Korts]

What benefit did you think that post could have?

As a matter of fact, I can see how that post hurt the town, I just couldn't help pointing out that armlx's post was unhelpful in the sense that he basically claimed non-vig. And actually, now that I re-read armlx's reasoning, I realized I read it wrong the first time, as in armlx didn't deny being the vig in any way. Ah well.

[Korts]

FL, I never assume stupid scum, and when I see someone doing something blatantly anti-town, I can't help but call them out for stupidity. Also, I realize now that I completely misinterpreted armlx's post, so he hasn't, in fact, tacit claimed non-vig.

[Korts]

Ok, one thing, did you see it before you posted or after, Korts? Doing something because you "can't help yourself" isn't good play. (yeah, I know, I'm one to talk, but it's still true).

Did I see what before I posted?

[Korts]

Ok, one thing, did you see it before you posted or after, Korts? Doing something because you "can't help yourself" isn't good play. (yeah, I know, I'm one to talk, but it's still true).

Did I see what before I posted?

Oh, that it hurts the town? Way after. I thought I was being helpful, actually.

[Korts]

@ rofl:
I understand why you're thinking this way, but you're reading a bit too much into what I say. First, this is just how my thought processes work. Second, by the time that I got back to the thread, looked over the posts that were made in my absence, and found someone scummy, everyone else had already said what I thought was suspicious of the other players. I didn't think it would give me much credibility if I just quoted everybody.

Paraphrase. God gave you a brain and a mouth, say it in your own words.

@armlx: you are trying to prepare multiple lynches. Not good. Real bad. And what is this connection that you speak of?

@fl: policy lynches (lynching Vamp because he's not likely to play insightfully) are bad for town, because policy lynching draws attention away from scumhunting, while also declaring the necessity for someone to die regardless of alignment. This does not lead to winning. I'm explaining this nicely to you because you seem fresh.

[Korts]

@armlx: you are trying to prepare multiple lynches. Not good. Real bad. And what is this connection that you speak of?

SC defending you.

Right, yet you fail to draw the same connection between forbiddanlight and me. Strange.

unvote, vote: armlx

Should've done that a long time ago.

[Korts]

oh i got lotsa votes...lol

Good posting......

I strongly suggest we ignore a vamp lynch however. People list him are optimal vig targets as their lynches rarely polarize people.

I assume that's "people

like

him". But I agree with you on this.

@strife:

armlx, it was stupidly, blatantly obvious who my mason partner was if i just claimed mason, thanks to you rolefishing for just that information.

Sigh, you accuse me of role fishing that info out when A) a large number of players pushed your wagon to claim and B) you volunteered the bread crumb.

First, changing history, the "wagon to claim" thing. Not all that scummy by itself, but it not being correct invalidates the argument, yet armlx keeps pushing the point it should serve to strengthen.

You can't tell me masons outing themselves really hurts the town.

It does. Anything that gives the mafia more information in who to target at night is going to hurt the town, especially if the "pay off" for the town is getting 2 confirmed innocents who won't likely last long.

This is just theory, but I still can't agree with it or see how one could truly believe this. The masons outing themselves give the town two confirmed townies, narrowing the field, and also makes the NK choice harder for both factions of scum, because they can't synchronize their kills. Basically the two choices left for scum are either killing one of the two confirmeds, or trying to hunt for power roles, both of which have serious drawbacks in that by killing one of the two confirmeds, scum let go of the possibility of killing a power role, and if they choose to hunt power roles, the town will still have two confirmeds Day 2. Again, this isn't much of a point against armlx, I just don't see why armlx keeps arguing against the masons claiming when they already have.

Vote: forbiddanlight

You're not willing to start a bandwagon, but will be jumping on it if it has momentum? Preemptively justifying any opportunism? Just die.

I concur with everything this post has to say except (partially) the last sentence.

Vote forbiddanlight

Nicely done wagon hopping; although this action doesn't amount to much in the way of scumminess because the case on forbiddanlight was made up of this single point at the time, and there was no need to reiterate it when I had just pointed it out a couple posts before.

Rofl, you just aren't going to stop OMGUSing me for starting the wagon that lead to your claim, are you?

Again, changing history, which doesn't sit well with me at all. Rofl had expressed suspicions of armlx before armlx had started the wagon. Calling it OMGUS would be so big a reach that it would be, in fact, the exact opposite of reality.

This is poor logic because there is 5 scum compared to 15 town. So even if you eliminate 1 town (the vig himself), it's still only a 5 in 19 chance of hitting scum, with a decent chance of hitting a town power role.

I will be happy to argue the logic behind N0 vigging outside the thread some other time, but for now no one should bring up the subject any more as it will give away who can't be the vig if people agree/disagree.

And with that, you've just given away that you're not the vig. Good job.

roflcopter, this is what rolefishing looks like.

Unvote, Vote: Korts

Yup.

Unvote, Vote KortS

I have a suspicion fl is just newbie wagon bait in general.

This I feel much more like wagon hopping, although I'm obviously biased here.

And then, only recently, armlx tries to set up a Day 2 lynch, when we haven't reached a consensus on the Day 1 lynch, either; and even though forbiddanlight reacts almost exactly like SC does, armlx only draws a connection between SC and me, not fl and me. His explanation is that he finds fl not to be scum, but to me, that sounds like avoiding the admission that there is the same connection between fl and me.

So that's basically my case.

[Korts]

Nice way of ignoring the points that actually made me vote you. Read the last paragraph. Setting up Day 2 lynch, ignoring possible forbiddanlight-Korts connection despite having the same basis as the SC-Korts connection.

[Korts]

These vig-directing comments are very scummy, you know, rofl, even though they're true. If you weren't untouchable, I'd make you squeal like a schoolgirl...

[Korts]

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

good thing i'm both untouchable and right.

Hey, I'm not saying you're not. I know you are, eventually. I just like the sound of schoolgirls squealing, and incidentally, also would want you down for vig-directing if not for the claim.

[Korts]

I'm sorry, iamausername, but if your evidence pointing to me being partners with SC is the same thing that armlx brought up, then please read the thread this time.

[Korts]

its like every time somebody has brought up scummy things armlx has done, he chooses the one he thinks he can most easily refute and says jack squat about the rest of the points in the case.

Except I responded to every point on the case.....

Nice way of ignoring the points that actually made me vote you. Read the last paragraph. Setting up Day 2 lynch, ignoring possible forbiddanlight-Korts connection despite having the same basis as the SC-Korts connection.

[Korts]

Any hint of a connection should not be ignored just because you think one of them's town. You can only be 100% sure of them being town if you are an informed minority. I'm fine with my vote.

[Korts]

You miss the point completely. Why would I be attacking someone I think is town based on one point? SC not only has the defense of you, but has been on actually every other wagon up till now besides yours. Why the exception?

Well, that's true, at least. But that's not what you said in the first place. Since your point was only that SC believed me, I called you out for leaving out the fact that forbiddanlight did the same. You could've done and cleared that mess up earlier. It almost leads me to think that you have only thought of including the been-on-every-other-wagon part in desperation. Ah well.

[Korts]

@armlx: you are trying to prepare multiple lynches. Not good. Real bad. And what is this connection that you speak of?

SC defending you.

Where does it say only SC did it.

There you go, trying to misrepresent me. Again. And fail. Again.

I didn't say. Evar. That you state that

only

SC did it. I said that you

failed to mention

even in passing that forbiddanlight did the same thing.

Ye gods, you're trying. Ah well, you can try all you want.

[Korts]

You are misrepresenting me. In no way, shape, or form, did I ever say only SC defended you, as you are implying here

Since your point was only that SC believed me

Oh. OH. Yeah, reading is tech. There's a "that" between "only" and "SC" which means that I'm saying this:

Since your point didn't say anything more than SC believing me

[Korts]

But I thought that was obvious after reading my 284.

[Korts]

There are

some

weak points in my case, but not all of them are. Please read: setting up a Day 2 lynch is

never

good, and trying to pin SC to me while ignoring the same tell in the case of forbiddanlight is

very

bad.

Also, blatant misrepresentation in Post 283. Either that, or scum can't read.

Who would you say is scummier, Korts or SC? Personally, I'd say SC, in which case, we should lynch hm first to test the connection, and really consider Korts for the next lynch if SC turns up scum.

I'm leaning KortS if only because I'm unsure on whether this is SC's standard behavior.

And you're sure that this isn't my standard behavior?

[Korts]

And you're sure that this isn't my standard behavior?

From what I have seen, I am sure.

K.

[Korts]

The fact that only iamausername and armlx keep pushing the "obvious" connection seems to indicate some kind of connection to me. EDIT: okay, Jordan mentions a "major link" too. I can't really defend myself against arguments saying that I'm scummy for refuting a connection and showing an equally likely possibility.

[Korts]

Where did you refute the connection?

I refute it by showing how another possibility is equally likely. Well, actually, if we go by the proper definition, that's not refuting, okay. More like discrediting. Ah well. I'm not much good with English.

[Korts]

Twist my words, baby, twist my words.

I'm not saying fl is scummy because she accepted my defense, I'm saying armlx is scummy because he draws a connection between SC and me based on interaction that can be found in the same form between fl and me, and ignores the latter interaction. Ah well. I'm just the lonely misunderstood guy here. Who wants to start an indie band with me?

[Korts]

rofl, what would make the band awesomer, trombone, or keyboard? I manage with a guitar, but you'll have to sing. I have a terrible accent. In every language I speak.

[Korts]

Sorry if my offtopic/joke comments annoy you, strife. I usually get carried away, and I like to make a pop-culture reference as much as the next man (well, the next man's Lowell, so I don't know how well that statement holds). Anyway, if you want me to stop, just say so and I will.

So, first the SC-fl-Korts thing.

I actually buy Korts' defense that he misinterpreted armlx. What I think the latter is saying is that vigging Night 0 has its reasons. Yes, Korts may have ended up rolefishing as a result, but it's minor compared to Lowell asking the masons to claim Day 1.

as opposed to

Um, wow, ok. Geez...I want to stick on vamp, but I want to vote Korts too...that is blatant rolefishing...but...I feel better about vamp. No reasoning at all. However,

HoS:Korts

. Even if it's not rolefishing it's pointing something out that can only help the scum. Even if you think it's obvious, you don't come out and say it, because there is always a chance of stupid scum. In fact, isn't this the main argument against me? Revealing I'm a townie lowers the pool of power roles...but saying "Well, you've made it clear you aren't the vig"...doesn't? I think that's nigh hypocritical.

Ok, one thing, did you see it before you posted or after, Korts? Doing something because you "can't help yourself" isn't good play. (yeah, I know, I'm one to talk, but it's still true).

Did I see what before I posted?

Oh, that it hurts the town? Way after. I thought I was being helpful, actually.

lol, sarnath'ed. Ok, well, in that case...I'll drop to an

FoS KortS

. I can't let that go, but it's not quite as bad as it initially seemed.

Not exactly the same argument, but both essentially boil down to fl's last quoted sentence. "I can't let that go, but it's not quite as bad as it initially seemed." Neither's scummy in my eyes for doing this. Here's armlx's read on this:

...
I could also get behind an SC lynch. Pretty shameless wagoning. Rather lynch KortS first though, as theres a connection there now that would reveal info.

@armlx: you are trying to prepare multiple lynches. Not good. Real bad. And what is this connection that you speak of?

SC defending you.

See how there's no mention of fl? Not even the "I see the implied connection, but I think fl's town nonetheless" that comes up later. So that's pretty much my point here.

About the setting up multiple lynches, I withdraw my point, because armlx has already clarified that that was in regards to alignment.

So the case pretty much consists of a single debatable point, at the moment. I think I'll have to do this, even though I think armlx is scum.

unvote

I'll try to put something of relevance in later today, but now I'm off to the library for some philosophy.

[Korts]

Hey, regarding rofl's comment

I'm not normally a fan of the long analysis posts that look at everyone in brief. It's a good scum tactic to post a summary of the game's action to look active as well as to paint people's actions in a scummy light in the hopes that others will start a wagon.

However, forbiddanlight is asking her own questions and actively prompting specific people, so I don't count it against her in this case.

Good job further implicating the connection between you and TinVision, which Jordan already noted had some things implicating. Protip: if you're scum, don't answer questions/points intended for your buddy.

Vote: BlakAdder

[Korts]

EBWOP: Finally breached the massive wall of text. Great job there, Forbiddan. This just made scumhunting loads easier.

Btw Blakadder, it's best not to rely on one persons point of view of events in the thread. Fb could be scum and offering a biased point of view towards the game in his posts.

Well, you know how it is, scum can't be bothered to properly research when another person's full analysis is handy.

[Korts]

Hey, I'm not scum with Tin. I just wanted to point out a minor mistake that rofl had made in his post. It's not that I'm supporting Tin or anything, I just don't like false accusations.

It wasn't even a major accusation. Why did you feel you had to answer? Couldn't you wait for Tin to speak for himself?

[Korts]

Tip as one player to another, forbiddanlight, use your quote tags like this: when you start quoting, you initially have only this:[ quote ] (without spaces, of course) but to make it clear who you're quoting, do it like this: [ quote="My Awesome Self" ] (again, without spaces). It makes everyone's job a lot easier. In action:

adfaopasdfinvxklcv

Now, to business.

So the case pretty much consists of a single debatable point, at the moment. I think I'll have to do this, even though I think armlx is scum.

This isn't good. If you think someone is scum, vote them, and back it up. If there is no case, then why do you think they are scum? The unvote isn't helping you Korts.

Who said I want the unvote to help me? I unvoted because firstly, I'm not achieving anything with my vote on armlx, and secondly because I realized how little material is left in my case on him. I still think he's scum, call it a gut feel, if you want.

Good job further implicating the connection between you and TinVision, which Jordan already noted had some things implicating. Protip: if you're scum, don't answer questions/points intended for your buddy.

Vote: BlakAdder

Hmm...this kinda seems a little bit like redirecting, buuut, I see his point pretty well, added to the "scumhunting is a lot easier" thing about my post.

Redirecting? Alright, so you don't want me pointing out scumtells as long as I'm under fire? Got it.

Hey, I'm not scum with Tin. I just wanted to point out a minor mistake that rofl had made in his post. It's not that I'm supporting Tin or anything, I just don't like false accusations.

It wasn't even a major accusation. Why did you feel you had to answer? Couldn't you wait for Tin to speak for himself?

I don't know. I speak (or, rather, post) without thinking a lot.

And thus you implicate yourself. Sorry, my vote is staying.

[Korts]

You seem awfully willing to give up your case for being convinced I am scum KortS.

Why the capital S every time? There is no capital S. It annoys me. Please stop.

About the case, yes I'm giving it up because it's too weak to hold. That doesn't change my conviction.

The fact you just jump on rofl's other suspect is pretty sketchy too.

Wow. So pointing out a (valid) tell is definitely only to buddy up to rofl. Bravo!

[Korts]

armlx, show me how I've been doing nothing but following rofl.

rofl's suspicions have been all over the place. My suspicions have also been all over the place. That's not proving.

[Korts]

So?

[Korts]

The point being, me having been on every wagon (with valid points having been stated) proves me following rofl how?

And me finding rofl's two top suspects scummy enough for a vote each doesn't immediately mean I'm following rofl. I came up with my own reasoning both times. In fact, if you really want to paint me following someone, me following Jordan onto the BlakAdder case is much more believable. Ah well. Paint me black.

[Korts]

The point being, me having been on every wagon (with valid points having been stated) proves me following rofl how?

Its mainly the shift to me once things calmed down, then the shift to his second once his first target was "No, ur wrong"'ed.

As in, I voted BlakAdder

not

because he defended Tin, but because he's up there on rofl's bad list? This smells so much like BS I have the strong feeling it might very well be the genuine article.

[Korts]

Greasy Spot would make an excellent vig kill.

This post is scummy because:
a) Trying to control the Vig's kill-choice is anti-town
b) Greasy Spot actually provided a bit of a case against AIUN
c) Like 4 people have already said Vamp would be an excellent vig
d) You suggesting otherwise is defending Vamp (see b)

Wait, so it's OK for people to direct the vig to kill Vamp, but not Greasy Spot? GS/strife connection is starting to look as significant as Korts/SC.

By the way, I'm absolutely in favour of a Vamp vidging too, and have never said otherwise.

For once, I agree with iamausername. Not once did strife shout at people for directing the vig kill to Vamp. According to point c) this is because four people were doing it, which obviously means it's a good thing, as opposed to when only one person does it. Double standard's a nice thing.

Still, iamausername, vig directing isn't pro-town, no matter who does it, for whatever reason. So shame on you.

[Korts]

Also, "trying to undermine the majority" is not a scum tell. Anything else?

Hey what? Trying to undermine the majority is not a scumtell how? The town operates by majority decisions, therefore if you attempt to take matters into your own hands, you go against the majority, i.e. the town. Going against the town isn't on any pro-town role's agenda.

[Korts]

Actually, going along with the town is a scum tell. The town is often wrong. If you think the majority is making a mistake, presenting a different view is definitely pro-town

Yes, but we're not talking about

presenting

a different view, we're talking about forcing that view on the whole town, without the consent of the majority.

[Korts]

Heh. You forgot to vote iamausername again at the end of that post, GS.

[Korts]

Fairly long post with no serious content and obviously weak/false points. Play by play.

I'm pretty sure whoever the vig is is reading your posts and mine, because the vig might completely throw GS and Vamp out the window and pick someone else, if only for the moment.

Pointless comment.

The vig kill N0 was obviously not based on somebody looking scummy, but I'm pretty sure there was a reason for it, as bad of a reason it may be.

Completely irrelevant point. Why do you bring up the N0 kill and on such an irrelevant and subjective scale, when neither of the quotes in your post address the N0 kill?

I agree with iamausername on point b, though. Idiocy is not a legitimate reason for a vote.

Calling others' arguments "idiocy" and not commenting further isn't just rude. That's also not a valid refutation of the argument.

In fact, iamausername, your response to point d implies that you approve of both Greasy Spot and Vamparific vigged. What's up with that?

Considering multiple (scummy/lurking) players for vigging is just not, as I see it, scummy. What's up with your question? Want to be looking like you're contributing, but don't know how?

[Korts]

Yes, but we're not talking about presenting a different view, we're talking about forcing that view on the whole town, without the consent of the majority.

This is such a ridiculous statement I don't even know how to respond to it.

This is only re: your statement that "trying to undermine the majority is not a scumtell". It's not related to you vig-directing, only in the sense that someone mentioned how you're "undermining the majority".

Considering multiple (scummy/lurking) players for vigging is just not, as I see it, scummy.

Weren't you arguing the exact opposite like, three posts earlier?

Again, I argued that

overriding the majority

is a scumtell, compared to you saying it's not. I consider vig-directing to be scummy, but multiple vig-directing not any more so.

[Korts]

I'll

FOS GS

for tunnel vision.

Explain, even if you just spit out post numbers.

Oh come on. Just look at GS's posts. How many times has he voted for iamausername? And for what? Basically for questioning him.

[Korts]

I do not "shoot off" the existence of a reason for a N0 vig as pointless and irrelevant. Don't misrepresent me. I said that your point about it was irrelevant in that particular debate that you brought it up in. As for the existence of a reason for a N0 vig, it's customary to kill the village idiot or the guy who has a history of not being helpful, etc. I don't know why this is a matter of speculation for you.

About the GS-iamausername-idiot thing, my mistake.

The flippant response to the legitimate concern is, I assume, me calling you out for questioning iamausername's multiple vig target thing. I see how from your viewpoint it might be legitimate, but proposing multiple targets to the vig is, I think, better than telling him-her to kill a specific player.

Wake me up when I have to claim.

[Korts]

K, I've been working on the field all day, and I just woke up from sleep, so don't expect me to post coherently today...

[Korts]

StrangerCoug's really flailing. HoS'ing for entirely subjective game theory and IGMEOY'ing for bad (?) manners (sic!), and doing his best to pin me to him, he's slipping.

unvote, vote: StrangerCoug

[Korts]

unvote, vote Sun Tzu

. If he's scum he'll come totally unglued. Let's try it.

I'mnot making any jokes this game.

Ongoing game? Don't reference.

[Korts]

so, guys, which of {armlx
BlakAdder
The Fonz (Enlight_Bystand)
Greasy Spot
iamausername
JordanA24
Korts
Lowell
silence
StrangerCoug
strife220
Sun Tzu
-TinVision-
Vamparific } are we lynching today, and which of them is getting vigged tonight? these are important questions, and i need the rest of the pro-town majority to help me answer them.

Fixed.

QFT

I'd go with either StrangerCoug or BlackAdder, as things are at the moment. I can't even hope for a majority on armlx.

[Korts]

@mod: a vote count would be nice.

[Korts]

Come on, it's the weekend, and also, my parents insisted on repainting my room Saturday and sorting my stuff Sunday. I'll write something proper tomorrow.

[Korts]

@Lowell. The wagon on me seems to boil down to SC trying hard to connect to me, as far as I see.

More votes on the SC wagon would be appropriate. He's still L-3.

[Korts]

"shameless wagoning" hadn't been part of the case until now, interesting. And the vig issue is two-sided. And more.

[Korts]

unvote

I'll need to reread. What do you mean with this?

More votes on the SC wagon would be appropriate. He's still L-3.

"shameless wagoning" hadn't been part of the case until now, interesting. And the vig issue is two-sided. And more.

You really had to make those two posts in close succession, didn't you?

[Korts]

unvote

I'll need to reread. What do you mean with this?

More votes on the SC wagon would be appropriate. He's still L-3.

"shameless wagoning" hadn't been part of the case until now, interesting. And the vig issue is two-sided. And more.

You really had to make those two posts in close succession, didn't you?

If you did not mean to drive me to claim, then I understand, but I'm bringing those two up because that pretty much did it for me.

I don't understand the connection you're drawing between the two quotes. How did me replying to armlx make you claim?

[Korts]

I did. Now you know why.

So was #471 sarcasm or what?

No, vigging out of spite really is good for the town, with the clouded judgement and all.

[Korts]

I don't understand the connection you're drawing between the two quotes. How did me replying to armlx make you claim?

It did not. You mentioned my being at L-3 at the time and brought up the vig issue, and I happened to be the vig and see those posts together.

Well, it was armlx who brought up the vig issue, and the vig issue has been around the last couple pages, but okay. So.

[Korts]

unvote

Crap, what is that, four claims on Day one, now?

Hey, what do you expect, two wagons ridden near to claim and a mason going berserk?

[Korts]

I read Lowell's posts in isolation, and nothing about the length or content of his posts differs from my town meta of him (admittedly though this consists of a single game).

About these pro-town "accusations", it was only four of those, in fact. It wouldn't have taken very much of your time to actually count them.

[Korts]

Actually, if some people would be willing to vote armlx, that'd be all kinds of great.

[Korts]

Why are we still debating on who we should lynch? Has anybody other than me read #507?

Why would a Godfather claim Godfather on Day 1?

[Korts]

Finally, someone who actually believes my innocence. Too bad he's scum.

Trying to get a mason mislynch/misvig, not pro-town.

armix, you never answered my question. You neither, Korts. I'm not seein your respective cases.

Sorry about that. To be honest, it's not much of a case right now, the main point against him is gut feeling.

armix, you never answered my question. You neither, Korts. I'm not seein your respective cases.

Sorry, here is why: Korts has been all over the place vote wise, and kept digging at the vig issue.

Meta me. I'm a fan of bandwagons. The vig issue I can't defend with anything else other than I stopped when I realized it hurts the town.

I have a faint nagging feeling that there was something else I wanted to answer, but I can't find it. Ah well.

Still, armlx is the play today.

[Korts]

the main point against him is gut feeling.

Epic fail. Gut feeling is the weapon of people who have no desire to analyze, whether out of sloth or being scum.

I analyzed you. I didn't get proof. I'm still convinced you're scum. What to do but vote you?

[Korts]

"Case or die", forbiddan? This is BS. You say it's okay to vote based on gut feeling, yet you declare that I shouldn't ask anyone else to vote armlx based on my gut feeling? What point would there be in voting at all if I would be content to be the only one voting armlx?

@BlakAdder. You were bandwagoned because you didn't even try to back up your suspicions. I made the effort of researching. I evaluated the results and my gut feeling, and I stuck with my vote in the end. See the distinction?

[Korts]

Well I can't let all the other claimers have

all

the fun. I am the Mafia Godfather. I will always show up innocent.

Actually, if some people would be willing to vote armlx, that'd be all kinds of great.

I will

vote: armix

. This is standard armix scum play.

The top part is clearly a joke. Period. Wagonning him on it makes no sense.

The actually interesting part of this post, which few people seem to have picked up on, is the second half. Given the amount of energy he's put into calling IAAUN scum so far, why is he unvoting him and going after someone else, with only one line's worth of explanation?

vote: Greasy Spot

And this is an even worse reason to vote someone.

unvote, vote: Greasy Spot

Say no to scumtells. That's the way to clear yourself.

[Korts]

Name a specific instance in which you felt IAAUN distorted what you said.

This you haven't done in the whole game, I think, GS. It wouldn't be reiterating, it would be iterating. If I'm wrong, feel free to quote yourself.

[Korts]

I'm here. Still waiting on GS to answer.

[Korts]

roflcopter said Iron Man was town, not scum.

You knew what I meant, lol. That was mistype, lol. I did of course mean to say he asserted town. It doesn't look good without the mason context. Add that to the...uniqueness of his play style that lends itself just a wee bit to tunnel vision and yeah....

pinkyFoS forbiddanlight

. Slips are slips, even if they're often nothing more.

[Korts]

i agree with this guy called chamber whose custom title is "cases are scummy"

*facepalm*

armlx is now officially down from my Inexplicably Scum-list.

[Korts]

On other news, BlakAdder is obviously the lynched-to-be.

unvote, vote: BlakAdder

[Korts]

i agree with this guy called chamber whose custom title is "cases are scummy"

Well, chamber is not in this game, so stop dodging my question and give a real answer. You and I are already NK bait, and the fewer reasons you give all of us to off you, the better.

Leave him, I think you should. And don't even think about offing him.

[Korts]

The fact that he's being of little help to us and you (the vig, or so you say) don't vig him isn't going to get him NK'ed, since there's no other pro-town killing role. I don't understand your logic unless you're actually the SK.

[Korts]

EBWOP

in reply to SC, obv

by the by, I agree with Fonz.

[Korts]

mod:

requesting deadline extension in order to allow ting to catch up.

Otherwise I'm good for a BlakAdder lynch still.

[Korts]

I kinda like the notion that Greasy seemed a) not to be able to notice the number of people in the signups, and b) took a month to work out that there were 20 people in the game.

GS has a history of being a prick. See Killer Scarecrows from Vegas. I think ting deserves a chance, at least.

[Korts]

Happy 'BlakAdder should get back so we can lynch/change directions soon' day

Oh, we're celebrating today? I dunno how I could've forgotten, didn't even get any presents...

[Korts]

I don't think that was rofl who said that, Muerrto.

[Korts]

I think all this conversation is fine and dandy, but a hammer would be nice.

If my opinion's important to you in any way, SC, I'd suggest you vig

tin

orangepenguin in the event of BlakAdder turning scum, otherwise there are quite a lot of contestants.

[Korts]

Armlx, your point being?

[Korts]

Interesting.

Ting, what do you think the answer to that question could be? Since there were two crosskills, I doubt SC could've targeted anyone else.

[Korts]

vote: armlx

We're back to the armlx-hating, only now with added

sugar

proof!

IAUN kept following armlx's reasoning and protected him on the vig issue.

[Korts]

Um...well that loses any suspiscion I had of GS/Ting.

Really? Because it increases mine. I really thought the manner in which GS pushed IAAUN before dropping it with no explanation looked like distancing.

QFT

But armlx is looking worse right now, I think.

[Korts]

But armlx is looking worse right now, I think.

Sorry to ruin your day, but 1) infi people agreed on the vig thing and 2) scum barning someone is no where indicative of a connection. Protecting yes, and the GS attack then back of yes, but barning like that is more commonly associated with "buddying", where a scum player tries to garner the favor of someone who is active in town discussion to avoid their suspicion.

It is associated both with "buddying" and "partnership." Sorry. I'm voting for the latter.

[Korts]

IAUN kept following armlx's reasoning and protected him on the vig issue.

You mean the vig issue that we should be killing every night, which is mathematically proven better?

No, I mean when I called you out for what I thought to be claiming non-vig, he immediately jumped on me.

[Korts]

Hm. Now I've had a good think about it, it may be buddying up, you're right. I'm not comfortable myself going by mostly gut, which this basically is, aside from IAUN protecting you.

unvote

By pointing out that IAUN jumped on me for calling you out, I meant to indicate that it looked to me like IAUN felt for some reason that he needed to protect you. It doesn't look so much like that now.

The Muerrto-thing strife spotted is pretty nice, though.

vote: Muerrto

[Korts]

shrug

I didn't say I was confortable doing it.

[Korts]

Also, armlx, I hope you're not starting with the capitalized S at the end again.

[Korts]

for even thinking GS and IAUN were distancing. GS was ridiculously, stupidly plowing against IAUN. Distancing? C'mon.

But that's

exactly

why it's so plausible they were distancing. After all, who'd follow on IAUN's wagon based on GS's ridiculous, stupid case?

[Korts]

I'm not sure how the hell to respond to this shoddy reasoning from some players I consider good. I'm dissappointed, and no that's not a plea to emotion.

Um, yes it is?

[Korts]

Um, what? The gut feeling that you cited in your last post, was that your case against me?

[Korts]

for even thinking GS and IAUN were distancing. GS was ridiculously, stupidly plowing against IAUN. Distancing? C'mon.

But that's

exactly

why it's so plausible they were distancing. After all, who'd follow on IAUN's wagon based on GS's ridiculous, stupid case?

This. Also, the fact that if Greasy really were convinced himself, he wouldn't have dropped it without any comment whatsoever, as if it had been a random vote.

I don't remember that. Which post?

[Korts]

It's flavor, and it's game-relevant, so the answer is both, I guess.

[Korts]

I don't consider flipping out at rofl a scumtell, because I can understand it, though I can also understand rofl to a certaing extent. What strife pointed out, however, is a pretty solid indication of the Vamp-IAUN connection.

[Korts]

Okay, this ting-Fonz back-and-forth is just too big a wall of text for me. A very brief skim of it makes me think that this is another one of those almost pointless arguments over a single point, with unintentional misrepresentation that the other gets outraged about, and so on. I'm too tired to read it now, but I promise I will comment on it tomorrow.

[Korts]

You wouldn't be so hard on a player for not defending his predecessor if you'd replaced her. Ms Goofball's thought process is utterly unique and entirely unfathomable, and anyone trying to explain her actions invariably goes insane.

Remind me to replace DGB sometime. I'm interested.

[Korts]

What Fonzie means is that he can deduce you skimmed because you favor ting in the argument. Get it? Yeah, he's a tricky little barstud, eh?

[Korts]

Hmm. I'm a lazy brass stud, I guess, but I still haven't reread the ting-Fonz argument thoroughly. It looks to me pretty much like unintentional misrepresentation on ting's side that's only vaguely incriminating. Fonz, however, seems to be making a fair point at first (GS not properly explaining drop off the IAUN wagon

or

the jump on the armlx wagon) but blows it out of proportion. I'll need to read it properly though to get a good idea of how much in there is invalid/BS, if at all.

[Korts]

BTW I'm glad to see rofl actually scumhunting here. I thought you lost your edge.

[Korts]

If you really must know, I killed Lowell, and it looks to me like sun tzu and iamausername killed each other. But that's a question I don't like.

This is true.

Wait, as far as I understood, Sun Tzu was targeted by the mafia in general. Why are you so sure it was IAUN specifically who killed him?

[Korts]

Korts is right here.

<3

I love to hear you say that.

[Korts]

OP just placed Muerrto at L-2, by my count. I'm not very confortable with a Muerrto-lynch at this point.

unvote

This game deserves some proper effort from me; I'll be doing a player-by-player analysis.

[Korts]

Muerrto's post 961 gives me renewed confidence in his lynch. He states IAUN's points are dead on, while admitting that he doesn't actually recall the exact points to which IAUN replied, which means that he couldn't have possible known for sure how good IAUN's replies were.

I'm willing to hammer whenever.

[Korts]

BM, you're saying that armlx is deliberately trying to set himself up as a lynch candidate, just because he's willing to give Muerrto a last opportunity at saying his opinion? Why are you so afraid of Muerrto's last words?

[Korts]

BM, you're saying that armlx is deliberately trying to set himself up as a lynch candidate, just because he's willing to give Muerrto a last opportunity at saying his opinion? Why are you so afraid of Muerrto's last words?

Umm, HELLO? We have 2 weeks till deadline!
I dont see why there would be ANY rush to end the day, but then, i'm not on the wagon, so i wouldnt know.
I really wanna have a look at where the votes lie at this point, because i think we could potentially draw alot of conclusions.
It's not like Muerrto is under any real time constraint to post his comments. But, Armlx's stance on Muerrto's opinions seems completely inexplicable to me.
Can you please explain your last question, because i dont really understand where is it derived from?

Thanks,
BM

What has deadline got to do with this? I'm not rushing this, your shock/suspicion at armlx for waiting for Muerrto's analysis does, however, make it seem like you'd rather have it ended now. That's where the question is derived from.

[Korts]

armlx, I don't follow your train of thought. How does a case being presented now prevent the development of tunnel vision?

[Korts]

Do you even have a case on me or was I screwed before I even read the thread?

You must not replace into games often. D1 actions are the place to go to when players flip scum later. Sorry you can't defend yourself more. If you're town, then contribute as best you can by trying to find scum. You think Armix is scum - who else is a good candidate?

Wrong. D1 actions are SOMETHING not everything. Building a case like this is just like MacAvenger did to me a couple games back. He was scum, I was town. It's a horribly weak case and everyone knows that.

You're defense is actually anecdotal, with an "everyone knows that" addendum?

[Korts]

BM, I think I get your point now. But I took armlx to be waiting for a general analysis on the game, a kind of finger-pointing post.

[Korts]

Yays, prize.

[Korts]

Dammit, I need to do that player analysis. Will get on it ASAP.

[Korts]

To hell with everything. I know myself well enough to be able to foresee days of procrastination over the analysis, so I'll just hammer.

unvote, vote: Muerrto

[Korts]

Umm, so that wasn't the hammer? Would someone do the honours?

[Korts]

To hell with everything. I know myself well enough to be able to foresee days of procrastination over the analysis, so I'll just hammer.

unvote, vote: Muerrto

THERE WERE STILL QUESTIONS DAMMIT! NOOO!

(oh wait...maybe there weren't)

Actually, thinking on it, there really were, ya coulda at least waited for his response to armix.

(YAY META HYPOCRISY! I'm sure you enjoy it SC )

Don't play dumb, fl, Muerrto's had more than one chance to address what he wanted to address. Anyway, my count says I've only put him to L-1.

[Korts]

given that muerrto is probably telling the truth about being town (no reason to lie post mortem) i think that makes fonz and armlx much more likely to be scum.

Why?

This, and also, I have seen scum lie continually until death scene, so Muerrto isn't confirmed dead town yet.

[Korts]

Farside, you killed Armix, correct? Meaning scum didn't get a kill off.

How on planet Earth did you mistake me for farside22!?

But yes, I did kill armlx.

Well then, it seems we have a second doctor.

[Korts]

ok, that made my choice easier.

vote: fonz

Um, how?

[Korts]

As far as I can see, your case on me consists of me voting where my arguments go. To that, my defense is that my vote is a versatile tool and I usually use it (especially early on) to stimulate discussion, prove a point, or pressure active lurkers.

You say the following "makes absolutely no sense from town".

Wake me up when I have to claim.

This was meant as an indication that I don't want to claim but people are forcing me to.

Also, you say I vote BlakAdder for no reason. That's not true at all. Deadline lynches are a necessary bad and any lynch is better than no lynch in these circumstances. There wasn't any other wagon anywhere near lynch at that time, so the proactive thing in that situation was voting to lynch.

To the armlx vote I had a reason, but sadly I can't recall what it could've been...

Well, that's about the defense for now. Half-assed case deserves half-assed reply, you know what they say. And rofl's accusation of bussing I can't reply to.

[Korts]

Uh, how does one reply to "that other guy's obviously bussing you"?

No.

He wasn't.

[Korts]

What was it, two out of four times? Seriously, that's a pretty sad number. I'd rather not take that chance.

[Korts]

but what i'm saying is that i can read you like a book. a book about organized crime, called "the new c9."

You need to learn the alphabet again, then. Sorry.

[Korts]

<3

But you're still wrong. I'll tell you that I told you so.

[Korts]

I don't know how much access I'll have in the following days, so don't flip out if I don't post much. Sorry in advance for any inconvenience.

[Korts]

Ok, I have access, but my battery's running low, so I don't have time for content right now. Sorry. Will try later.

[Korts]

Just because people discuss someone, or even vote someone, doesn't mean that they're willing to actually lynch him

I'm having serious problems with this sentence. Voting should indicate intent, or at the very least willingness to lynch.

@fl: feel free to read the games linked in my wiki, I usually employ vote-hopping early on in the game to pressure people on almost irrelevant matters. It's my way of starting discussion. My take is that a vote is a versatile tool and it's made to be used. Also, I don't see "they've mostly turned town" to be a valid point.

[Korts]

EBWOP: also, why mention Fonz for the sake of a single sentence?

[Korts]

I haven't got that far yet (I'm stopping today at Page 8. I'm weak lol), but I know you aren't part of our mason group, and the only other claim I've seen is forbiddanlight claiming townie.

yep. Cause this was back when I thought claiming townie was kinda meaningless. Now I know better .

It isn't? A townie claim doesn't change anything.

[Korts]

A townie claim doesn't change anything.

If done too early, it makes it easier for scum to look for power roles.

Assuming town power roles don't lie. Do we really have to discuss this?

[Korts]

You were the one who said it doesn't change anything, and I was giving a counterexample.

(Kokusho's Gambit involves cop fakeclaiming tracker, but there is no tracker in this game, so we can safely assume they don't lie. That's for another time, though.)

(Lie as in claim vanilla, in a surprising and shocking twist of fate)

[Korts]

You were the one who said it doesn't change anything, and I was giving a counterexample.

(Kokusho's Gambit involves cop fakeclaiming tracker, but there is no tracker in this game, so we can safely assume they don't lie. That's for another time, though.)

(Lie as in claim vanilla, in a surprising and shocking twist of fate)

If you are at L-1 or L-2 (to be fair I was at L-3)...you aren't gonna lie and claim vanilla. This is basically when you'd claim ANYWAY, so I think it's safe to say that I'm either scum or what I say I am. Also, if you claim vanilla and somehow get out of the lynch, later claiming a power role won't exactly cut ice :S.

There are power roles that, in usual circumstances, need not be claimed; bulletproof for instance. But you're mostly right. My point was, claiming townie wouldn't change anything insofar as that day's lynch and suspicions go. This reminds me to go look at your wagon, because the initial pressure was pretty fierce, but loosened considerably in reply to your claim, which shouldn't have drawn this reaction from the town.

[Korts]

I'm find it odd how GS posted two posts after fl's claim yet didn't care to comment on it...

Also I'm surprised I didn't chip into the same argument that went down between 1114 and 1122 just now.

Also, damn Vamp was scummy. Which justifies the sudden lack of pressure on fl. So that was the big analysis right now.

[Korts]

tinvision/orangepenguin... is town.
ting... is town.
Korts.... is scum.

Wow, it took me 4 minutes to break the game. That's a record, even for me.

unvote, vote: Korts

Applause! What a great analysis...

I'm find it odd how GS posted two posts after fl's claim yet didn't care to comment on it...

I find it odd how you're suddenly putting heat on GS, after more or less ignoring the whole thing with Fonz for the whole yesterday.

My intention was not to put heat on GS/you for this. It was just a note. Your back-and-forth with Fonz I ignored because it was based on irrelevant minutiae and mutual misrepresentation. Plus, walls of text.

Toaster: what makes you think one of those who iamausername voted is scum?

Does anyone have good reasons to why would scum have tried to kill armlx (which is what happened if we don't have a doc)?

I've been scum often enough to have noticed that scum absolutely cannot refrain from bus'ing on Day 1.

Anecdotal evidence does not prove the accusation of bussing whatsoever.

Korts is posting a lot of little useless posts. I don't like that. He's the scummiest of the three. Let's lynch him.

I understand that you narrowed the field down to three based on IAUN's Day 1 votes, but do you have any proof of my posts being useless?

[Korts]

I understand that you narrowed the field down to three based on IAUN's Day 1 votes, but do you have any proof of my posts being useless?

Well they sure don't seem particularly helpful to me...

What's this called, uh, confirmation bias? Please quote and prove to me that I didn't contribute.

[Korts]

I still think BM is a pretty good lynch and people should consider him in more detail.

But deadline in 5 days - Korts is obviously the call

Unvote, Vote: Korts

That's L-1, I think. Claim or die.

"Claim or die", how I hate that phrase...

Doc. Protected armlx N0, roflcopter (now TS, I think) N1, SC N2. SC is therefore confirmed.

[Korts]

Rules don't clarify deadline lynches.

mod:

if deadline hits before we have a majority, is the person at the most votes lynched?

Otherwise, the Fonz case is not much more than misrepresentation and semantics; I'm looking at strife right now, he seems to be implying that we don't have much choice other than a BM/Fonz/Korts lynch...

unvote, vote: strife

[Korts]

@strife:

Unvote

If Korts is lying I don't see a need for the real doc to claim today. But we should keep in mind that just because there was a no-kill last night doesn't confirm there's a 2nd doc.

I don't actually like the case against the Fonz.

Vote: BM

This post, particularly the last quoted line gave me the impression that you won't be likely to consider any other wagons. You mention me in reference to a possible counterclaim, you mention dislike of the Fonz case, and you vote BM. But if you are only listing the wagons you would like to join, why mention Fonz, when you state you don't like the case against him? And if you are listing all cases made recently, why leave ting out, when Fonz and now StrangerCoug obviously have a pretty detailed one?

Also, please explain your vote on BM. If this is a lurkerhunt, how is it pro-town right before deadline?

[Korts]

EBWOP: for people considering a strife-lynch, please join the wagon ASAP, before we hit deadline.

[Korts]

Nobody was voting Ting at the time I made that post. I believe it's important to join bandwagons near deadline, but I didn't want to join the Fonz one because I think he's more likely town than scum, so I hoped to start my own. After his bandwagon started (a few posts ago), I explicitly commented that I didn't want to join that one either.
Why wouldn't I state my opinion on the only player with votes (besides a claimed doc) near deadline?

I have no idea what you're accusing me of in my BM vote. If you think I'm just making a completely random vote, you haven't been paying attention, since I was voting for BM for the majority of this day - see my earlier posts.

I'm very sad that you're making sense, I thought I was onto something there... I'll read your BM case in a bit.

unvote

[Korts]

Vote definitely needs to go somewhere, so I'm going to Vote: BM. I think his case against Armix for allowing Muerrto to respond was contrived. His predecessor, Jordan, had suspicion quite wildly all over the place D1 as well.

This the entirety of your case? Cos I couldn't find anything else. That's pretty weak by itself.

vote: ting

Basically to save my own ass.

[Korts]

At least you could do something insanely scummy so I don't feel so guilty...

[Korts]

vote: deadline extention

Although I have the nagging feeling we're gonna waste it just like the rest of this day.

[Korts]

EBWOP:

mod:

please prod ToasterStrudel, silence and skitzer, they haven't posted in a while. Maybe a replacement would be better for BM, his last post was circa a month ago...

[Korts]

Please do not ignore my claim. At least say "I don't buy it", if nothing else.

[Korts]

i know. i also think that, korts lynch<no lynch<ting lynch.

You'd prefer to lynch a claimed doctor? Wow, just wow. Why is this scum not dead yet?

Um, the relations are the other way around, if you notice. So what he means is, his own lynch is the best option of the three.

[Korts]

I hate to see my prophecies fulfilled...

[Korts]

So you think BM is scum, forbiddan?

[Korts]

BM didn't do anything except start reading up and leave the game when he thought Jordan had come back. Although he hadn't, BM hasn't posted since then, so I presume he hasn't realized he's still in this game. The "coasting" accusation I don't find valid.

Jordan was, I agree, scummy, but I can't seem to recall atm why I thought so.

You see, I asked you that question

because you hadn't expressed any suspicion of BM before the deadline extension.

I take that back, I checked your posts, and you did, in fact, vote BM right after I claimed.

[Korts]

FYI, I'd switch my vote to Fonz or Orange to avoid a Ting or Korts lynch.

Why would you defend ting?

[Korts]

FYI, I'd switch my vote to Fonz or Orange to avoid a Ting or Korts lynch.

Why would you defend ting?

Because I don't think he's scum, as I've discussed 2 or 3 times already.

Right... I seemed to remember you stating that you sided with Fonz in their argument, but it looks like I got you mixed up with SC. Sorry.

I definitely think that what ting's saying is true, one of either ting or Fonz should be the lynch today, because until their argument is eliminated, town won't be even making an effort to scumhunt. I'd rather not switch to BM (now farside) though, seeing as he'd been replaced now. If it comes to it, I'm pretty happy with either Fonz or ting, since I'm not convinced either way.

[Korts]

So if Ting dies and flips town, what conclusion are you going to make tomorrow?

I seriously don't know yet. I'm gonna reread the whole ting-Fonz argument with the knowledge that ting believed he was right.

[Korts]

Remind me what the case on OP is.

[Korts]

And you choose OP based solely on number of votes, right?

Well, I can go for that, too. This game needs a kick in the balls.

unvote, vote: orangepenguin

[Korts]

And you choose OP based solely on number of votes, right?

Basically. Orangepenguin has contributed very little to the game, while Ting has been relatively active and I believe GS's argument with IAUN is a towntell.

Remind me to hurt you if orangepenguin flips town and ting =) turns out to be scum.

I'm having a hard time figuring out why this post seems scummy to me.

[Korts]

Dammit. Forgot you're the confirmed vig. Nevermind that, then.

[Korts]

that's it shame me

[Korts]

My compliments to the scum. Nice set-up.

farside, what's your take on things?

[Korts]

5 townies, 3 scum alive = lylo.

Korts, who did you protect last night?

I protected SC again, seeing as I couldn't protect myself.

[Korts]

We missed a chance to double-check forbiddanlight, though.

[Korts]

Yep, you might as well claim, OP.

[Korts]

I've been thinking; with three scum left still, I'd rather SC doesn't shoot at night if we happen to correctly lynch; or

SC, definitely shoot tonight, in case you were considering withholding a kill. If we mislynch, I probably won't be able to save the town from losing, since scum probably wouldn't try WIFOMing me into a lynch again; in case of a mislynch, you have a 3 in 5 chance of hitting scum (3 in 4 if you don't consider shooting me). If we correctly lynch, those chances are somewhat lower, however, we will definitely go into Day 5 in LYLO upon correctly lynching, with you shooting or without, with two confirmed minimum (assuming I'm getting killed); if you shoot, that will be two confirmed, two scum out of 5, if you don't, it will be 2 confirmed, 2 scum out of 6. Obviously we have a better chance with you shooting either way, and it's not vitally important to hit scum if we lynch correctly today.

[Korts]

Naturally.

[Korts]

he already claimed vanilla townie, he filled the list in. see post 1291

[Korts]

...

Yes, we know. You're also... mod-confirmed.

[Korts]

Yeah, I was trying to be tactful, some ladies don't take well to being told they're dead

[Korts]

Actually, I'm leaning towards forbiddanlight. Pressure dropped from her wagon way too fast D1, I seem to recall.

[Korts]

Not your fault, at all. I'm just going to go back to take a look at your wagon again. Something fishy was going on there. Also, do you really think people are always lynched over things they have full control over?

[Korts]

Damn, OP, you sure do spread your suspicions wide. I really don't like that.

vote: orangepenguin

By my count, L-2.

[Korts]

Wait, I thought SC was in there too. Rereading, it's just the Fonz and fl (besides me).

unvote

I'll need to do that reread.

[Korts]

Damn, OP, you look real scummy right now. I won't vote until my readthrough is done, but you're really tempting me.

[Korts]

A moment of your time please. Consider this. If I really am the doc, it would make a lot of sense for the scum to try to lynch me. Out of the vanillas, that's OP, and to a lesser extent, strife.

I propose that SC vig me, so that the town has a better view on things tomorrow.

No, on second thought, two town casualties would lose the game.

What's the case against me being doc, for clarity?

[Korts]

There was no kill N2 because I protected SC. And you know well that the WIFOM-factor alone in keeping me alive can get me mislynched, which is a pretty strong incentive for scum not to NK me.

[Korts]

OP, die. If you were the real doc, the claim wouldn't have come this late.

Strife, I can agree with that, if OP comes up doc, I'm the obvious vig target.

vote: orangepenguin

Sorry, scum.

[Korts]

Bah, go town!

I commend you for the continued effort.

[Korts]

Okay... After OP's claim yesterday I think I'm more or less confirmed, which should mean that with two confirmed (SC and me) the two remaining scum are in the {farside; Fonz; strife} group.

Wide? How so? I think you just don't like that you're one of them. I am leaning towards you being confirmed, but I am not entirely convinced. You being scum doesn't really add up if the fonz are fl are scum though. I can see those two being partners.

This post makes me think that one of the scum are in the {Fonz; forbiddanlight} group. It just seems an odd comment to put at the end of this post. I think OP was trying to bus one of his partners. Since FL came up town, this implicates, to me, Fonz.

[Korts]

Well okay, so now I'm convinced that strife is one of the two scum. His list of suspicions implies Fonz as a scumbuddy, too.

@farside, it's there, in my post prior to yours. The last sentence of OP's post doesn't fit there at all, there's just no logical connection between "I am leaning towards you being confirmed, but I am not entirely convinced" and "You being scum doesn't really add up if the fonz are fl are scum though". I'm therefore convinced that this sentence was planted in order to distance. Since FL is dead and come up town, OP could only have been distancing Fonz. Not solid proof, but the best I have at short notice.

[Korts]

You've been pushing the notion of me not being doc with far too big conviction. Occam's razor is, in my irrelevant opinion, applicable here. Which do you think is likelier, me being doc and OP trying a last-ditch attempt at saving his ass, or OP counterclaiming and trying to bus one of his two remaining scumbuddies in a last-ditch attempt at saving his ass?

[Korts]

SC, I'd rather you unvoted. There's still things to be discussed, though

it would be good if others joined in...

[Korts]

strife: you don't believe me, right? Do you think there is a second doc?

[Korts]

Do you think there is a second doc?

Nope
Are you going to argue that no kill N2 proves there was a doc? It's an awkward point to argue against. However, given how much suspicion you were under D1, setting yourself up for a fake-claim makes sense. It also doesn't make much sense for scum to target the confirmed vig when there was a good chance of being a doc alive.

The point I was trying to make wasn't that the lack of a N2 kill proves the existence of a second doc. My point was, How likely do you think it would be for scum to set a fakeclaim up on N2? I wasn't under more than moderate suspicion D1. And do you really think you're going to WIFOM your way out of this by saying the scum would calculate in the possible existence of a second doc?

And .. why is me thinking Korts is scum indicative of me being scum? It's lylo and BM and Fonz would both be easier targets for me-scum. You not agreeing with my argument doesn't mean I have to be scum. Think about motivations. You're being reckless here by not thinking things through.

Why would BM and Fonz be better targets? Even yesterday, a lot of people were questioning my alignment. It's enough WIFOM that I have survived this long for town to consider me a valid lynch, and I don't think it would be too hard for scum to exploit that.

[Korts]

The fact that I'm still alive holds no water as a valid scumtell, as you are well aware I'm sure.

Wake me up when I have to claim.

On going back to it, I see you were still far from a lynch, but at that point you had the most votes on you (4).

The case on me was weak and I was annoyed at it. I'm not really convinced I would've been lynched on such grounds as they were.

If I was in a game that had a 50:50 chance of there being a doc alive, I wouldn't take the risk to send in a night-kill on the obvious doc-protect target.

Yet you obviously consented to that kill

[Korts]

Sorry, what? That doesn't make sense to me.

[Korts]

mod

: please prod the Fonz