Open 81 - The New C9 - Game Over

[silence]

Well then, it seems we have a second doctor.

Or that scum targeted armlx, too.

[forbiddanlight]

I'm still around myself. Haven't had much opportunity to do the relooking at I promised (college started this week). My best opportunity was probably yesterday and I screwed that up. Sorry.

[ting =)]

I'm still here. I don't have internet access for a long enough time to actually read up though.

I should have my connection set up in a couple of days.

[strife220]

I'm still here, I just really don't want to re-read 42 pages. Hopefully will get a free few hours by the weekend.

[roflcopter]

seriously? come on guys. i'm glad you're all still here, but i hate you for posting nothing except "i'm still here."

[StrangerCoug]

FoS: Everybody that's just sitting there.

Give us decent cases already!

[forbiddanlight]

FoS: Everybody that's just sitting there. Give us decent cases already!

Practice what you preach then. Realize that for many of us college and/or school has just gotten back into swing. We have to readjust, so we are naturally L/A. I have nothing tomorrow so I'll probably be able to dedicate and actual block of time. I know I have posts in other games, but they aren't well thought out, they are just kinda quick responses. Here I need to relook at several people, so I'm going to need an actual block of time rather than being in and out.

[StrangerCoug]

OK then.

[roflcopter]

i'm pretty sure both sc and i have given reasons for our korts votes.

jesus fucking christ why is nobody actually playing in this game.

[orangepenguin]

Alright, so I'll probably have more free time tomorrow. I'm sorry I am contributing to the non-posting.

[ting =)]

Okay, I was thinking.

Off the top of my head, I might vote Fonz.

I originally had him pegged as misguided townie who really thought that GS was distancing, but now I'm not so sure. I'll have to reread him though.

I'm not so sure about Korts. I had him as town when I first read through the game to catch up. I'll reread him too.

I'll have free time tomorrow, I'll go reread day 2 to see if anyone else hits my head.

[The Fonz]

Just back from holiday, re-read coming.

[Korts]

I don't know how much access I'll have in the following days, so don't flip out if I don't post much. Sorry in advance for any inconvenience.

[Rogueben]

Just letting you know that I am currently searching for replacements for roflcoptor and Iron Man who have both requested replacement.

I will also be sending out prods to inactives again, hopefully tonight.

[The Fonz]

No.

IAU was never going to get lynched to begin with. Again, no one ever had IAU as their top suspect except for GS, and again there was never as much conversation on IAU as there was on any of the other players.

Just untrue. If no one else had IA as a top suspect, why did Rofl

vote for him?

Are you purposely ignoring all the people who weren't even talking about IAU?

Or the fact that there were less people jumping on IAU as there were jumping on other people?

See earlier bit of this post.

I just don't know what to say here. This is simply untrue. There were like, 2-3 pages when the discussion was centred firmly on IAAUN.

337, IA says that Greasy 'would make an excellent vig kill.'
Strife 360: Attacks IAAUN. Makes four points, though notes that Korts remains a stronger suspicion. (

This, actually, looks scummy itself from a scumbuddy second angle).

Korts 363: This isn't firmly anti-IAAUN (accuses strife of hypocrisy, but also says IAAUN is scummy for vig-directing).
365: Rofl votes IA.
367: Korts expresses strong disagreement with IA, claiming that 'undermining the majority' is a scumtell.
369: Korts suggests that IA is forcing his view on the town.
372: SC makes a kinda bethedging post on IA.
378, 388 are both Ia-related.
437 Rofl lists IA as one of three to lynch today/vig.
466, SC claims. At this point, there is

one

player other than SC himself with more votes than IA, and five votes to be re-allocated.

Strife had JUST placed a single vote on Lowell. There had been far more intensice recent discussion of IAAUN than of armlx, at the time that Greasy unvoted to go to armlx. Also, there were a handful of former SC votes looking for a new home.

495 is the last votecount before Greasy's switch. The only wagons bigger than one were Korts,' and silence (which were two holdover lurker votes). The guy who

actually got lynched

had NO votes at the time.

It's quite false to state that there was somehow plenty of players being discussed more than

My case on GS is that his pattern of behaviour fits perfectly with a bus.

My defense on GS is that his pattern of behaviour also fits perfectly with exasperated townie. [Insert quote here mentioning two weeks, number of posts.. yadda yadda]

But he didn't have any reason to be exasperated. Because he didn't appear to do everything in his power to get IA lynched, such as, to pull a random, slightly insignificant detail out, ACTUALLY EXPLAINING HIS CASE.

I honestly cannot believe anyone who actually read the thread believes GS went out of his way to get IA lynched, nor the contrary. Instead, he stated his suspicions with a ton of ferocity and no explanation (which has only a handful of explanations, the most common of which is bussing), then dropped them for a case which, again, he didn't appear to have particularly good reason to support, without thinking it necessary to explain why.

When pressed, he said 'it wasn't viable' which in my experience is like the number one cop-out excuse used by scum dropping a bus. Basically, the behaviour of the pair of them ticks pretty much every box on the 'things to look out for that might signify a bus' list, and I noted that it looked bus like on day one (thus giving the lie to roflcopter's moronic assertion that I was trying to 'unconfirm' Greasy- since I'd been suspicious of the pair of them for apparent bussing on day one, as anyone who bothered to read would note).

Furthermore, you're simultaneously suggesting that Greasy Spot was just being his idiotic self (with the repeated confirms) but contending that he was acting as a rational townie would in dropping the case. This is contradictory. (As is your recent claim that your defence is that he 'acted like an exasperated townie' when previously you claimed the move was rational. So, rational, or born of frustration?)

RE: 1037. I disagree. I have significant GS meta too, and this seems at odds to his prior town behaviour. And there's no double standard: no-one's asking you to provide examples of rational behaviour and expecting him to be dumb.

You yourself brought up the 'this is just what Greasy is like' defence, whilst also claiming his action was rational. This is a masterpiece of craplogic- you contradict yourself, then try to misrepresent others as forcing you into it. You can try the 'Greasy is just being himself' defence. You can try the 'it was the rational thing to do' defence. You cannot use both.

given that muerrto is probably telling the truth about being town (no reason to lie post mortem) i think that makes fonz and armlx much more likely to be scum.

I love this. You push a retarded case with zero validity on a townie, I point out that it is a retarded case with zero validity, and that apparently makes me scum. No-one with half a brain and protown motives could possibly have agreed with your case.

Why not?

I only skimmed, but it was part misrepresentation, and a lot of stretching. Honestly, I don't think GS was distancing.[/quote]

Do what I demanded of Greasy, and he was unwilling to answer. Name a specific thing you thought was a misrep or stretch.

having just reread iamausername i'm pretty sure he was trying to bus korts d1 while at the same time making up connections between him and other townspeople, most significantly strangercoug before he claimed, which would have allowed for several mislynches to follow a korts lynch.

I think he appears to be far more genuine in his attacks on Korts than those on GS. Please explain why you think bus.

Before I claimed, The Fonz voted me for throwing FoS's like crazy when FoS'ing is something I do.

And attacking people for FOSing when they could have voted is what

I

do. I have a more extensive meta than you- you cannot expect me to know your meta, and at the same time attack me without knowing mine.

He also attempted to paint Greasy Spot's replacing out in a scummy light.

Greasy Spot was still posting in other games. Therefore, he was not replacing out due to leaving the site, vacation, RL issues, or basically any of the reasons that are acceptable. That only left 'due to being under suspicion.'

When I said this, he then (having been replaced, which frankly isn't on) claimed he was replacing out due to the game being too big. I knew for a fact he was still alive some way into a game bigger than this at the time. Therefore, that couldn't have been true either.

I need to look at Korts specifically. But I didn't get a bus feel from IA/Korts D1, and it's kinda ironic to me that y'all suspect me for accusing GS of bussing, when you're now pushing Korts on what I think is likely to be demonstrated to be a similar, but much weaker case.

[Korts]

Ok, I have access, but my battery's running low, so I don't have time for content right now. Sorry. Will try later.

[ting =)]

ust untrue. If no one else had IA as a top suspect, why did Rofl vote for him?

Wee!

One

vote.

You're missing my point, and you know you're missing it. IAM wasn't going to get lynched. GS could see that he was not going to get a majority concensus. Suspicion != will to lynch. There are numerous people here who have had suspicion, even votes directed at them, but I doubt if more than a handful are serious lynch candidates. IAN was not going to get lynched.

---

just don't know what to say here. This is simply untrue. There were like, 2-3 pages when the discussion was centred firmly on IAAUN.

Again, that's not going to lead to his lynch. There are a lot of people who've been discussed, and discussed more. For the better part of the previous day, I've discussed a lot with you. I didn't see you as a lynch candidate at all.

Just because people discuss someone, or even vote someone, doesn't mean that they're willing to actually lynch him.

---

urthermore, you're simultaneously suggesting that Greasy Spot was just being his idiotic self (with the repeated confirms) but contending that he was acting as a rational townie would in dropping the case. This is contradictory. (As is your recent claim that your defence is that he 'acted like an exasperated townie' when previously you claimed the move was rational. So, rational, or born of frustration?)

False dichtomy. You can have exasperated but rational people. They're not mutually exclusive things.

RE: 1037. I disagree.

I have significant GS meta too, and this seems at odds to his prior town behaviour.

And there's no double standard: no-one's asking you to provide examples of rational behaviour and expecting him to be dumb.

You yourself brought up the 'this is just what Greasy is like' defence, whilst also claiming his action was rational. This is a masterpiece of craplogic- you contradict yourself, then try to misrepresent others as forcing you into it. You can try the 'Greasy is just being himself' defence. You can try the 'it was the rational thing to do' defence. You cannot use both.

I have GS scum meta. This does not fit. I can link you, if you're willing to read through the game, but reading a full game just for meta is somethign I cringe at and would probably be too lazy to do, so not holding it against you if you dont' feel like checking out the game.

YES, there is. You've been saying that your meta of gs-town is an 'irrational' tunneling townie. You've also been asking me for cases and for other 'rational' actions that GS has done to prove that he's town.

You're being suspicious of my predecessor for doing something which you've admitted is both good, and rational. You're basically saying that you're not going to accept GS' behaviour as townie behaviour unless it's accompanied by stupidity.

In one breath, you're telling me that GS has to behave irrationally in order to fit with your meta of town-GS (tunneling townie), and here, you're telling me that you expect rational cases from him.

I'm getting slightly miffed that people expect GS to behave stupidly, and also expect me to point out rational things that he's done. That's.. holding the same person to a double standard.

When you stop making contradictory accusations, expect me to stop making the 'contradictory' defenses you're forcing.
[/quote]

Like I've said, you've forced both. One by pulling your, 'this is what GS is not like' meta attack, and the other with your calling for examples of rational actions.

When you stop making contradictory accusations, expect me to stop making forced defences.

[ting =)]

ebwop: messed up the quoting. meant to delete that bit but forgot.

[StrangerCoug]

Now I'm split between ting =) and The Fonz here. I'm still happy with my Korts vote, but it's starting to look like at most one of those two people are scum. If they're both scum, I'm going to slap myself in the head for overlooking obvious distancing.

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP: By "those two people", I mean ting =) and The Fonz. Korts's name is in the way, which is why I think my #1093 isn't clear.

[forbiddanlight]

I'm sorry about my ridiculously L/A. I've really been meaning to do that reread, and I'll see if I can do it now, but I probably won't PBPA it, just decide between the two people I suspected here. I'll do this now.

[forbiddanlight]

Well, to be honest, Korts was scummiest D1 by jumping all over the place on wagons and pushing armix who we now know is town on pure gut. Also notable is that most of the people Korts wagoned flipped town or are presumed town. I'm the iffyest so I'm the only one who can say everyone in that statement, but still it's a good majority. Either way, you can be wrong often, it's just notable. Also, I'd complain about his analysis laziness but I'm having the same problem.

Fonz...has been consistent in suspecting Greasy, and their fight feels rather town vs. town. Given what I said about Korts, I could definitely get behind a Korts lynch though. It may not be much, but it is a bit weird to wagon so shamelessly D1, and then sit idly by to push other mislynches...so

vote:Korts

[Korts]

Just because people discuss someone, or even vote someone, doesn't mean that they're willing to actually lynch him

I'm having serious problems with this sentence. Voting should indicate intent, or at the very least willingness to lynch.

@fl: feel free to read the games linked in my wiki, I usually employ vote-hopping early on in the game to pressure people on almost irrelevant matters. It's my way of starting discussion. My take is that a vote is a versatile tool and it's made to be used. Also, I don't see "they've mostly turned town" to be a valid point.

[Korts]

EBWOP: also, why mention Fonz for the sake of a single sentence?

[forbiddanlight]

@fl: feel free to read the games linked in my wiki, I usually employ vote-hopping early on in the game to pressure people on almost irrelevant matters. It's my way of starting discussion. My take is that a vote is a versatile tool and it's made to be used. Also, I don't see "they've mostly turned town" to be a valid point.

To me, it's a scum tell in the sense of throwing shit around to see what sticks. Of course, I don't have a wide enough data sample to be sure it's a scum tell, but so far it's seemed to serve me well.

I could be wrong, but there's also the fact you seemed to kinda stop trying after D1 :S.