NY 169: The EPIC XD Mafia Game of Greatness (Game Over)

[Titus]

I am here. Not reading all of this tonight.

[Titus]

Can someone give me a summary of outed claims (if any) so I can compare when I start reading?

Also, holy scumballs, did someone give this game crack? (Mean this in a good way. That's my kind of game.)

[Titus]

I'd like to know all, so I can verify consistent play or not (unless the player is dead).

[Titus]

Muffin that fenceshit made my eyes bleed water.

[Titus]

A few thoughts from the end of the day 1.

First, why was Varsoon the deadline lynch? There were larger wagons at the time Mastin's disbanded. Also, why wasn't Varsoon given a chance to claim? I am not at BBMolla's lynch without claim is a policy lynch but damn. I know 12 hours and all but that's how PR's get lynched.

Second, Mastin should be announcing his heal target from last night and other prior nights today. If a watcher/tracker can subtly verify him, that would make me feel better about Mastin.

[Titus]

*Mastin = MafiaSSK damn it.

[Titus]

Is that a chainsaw I see? Really. Did you not see the part about subtly...meaning don't announce it unless MafiaSSK is confscum.

[Titus]

it wasn't really fence-sitting (i'm not sure what fence you see me sitting on here), it was more me waffling about my read.

Casso and ffery. It made my eyes bleed bc your reasoning is vage yet you can ffery out for it.

[Titus]

This reminds me of your oh-so-clueless entrance to the asoiaf game.

Which game is that?

As for Isoing SSK, I went until he doctor point and compared. I focused on Day 1.

[Titus]

Wait you just replaced in.

Still w/e.

If he claimed scum, why no large wagon on him?

Yeah, the thread is going to take hours to read. I am taking shortcuts. Sue me.

[Titus]

@Titus: Why focus on D1 when more recent days are somewhat more pertinent?

Day 1 is the foundation. Is Mastin is a supposed doc, he should play like it on Day one prior to his motive to claim. Day 1 is also where you should find the least amount of bussing. If there is a radical shift in anyone's behavior, I want to know why.

[Titus]

Mod.. I replaced Cephir...are you telling me I was self-voting?

UNVOTE: Anyone who Cephir was voting[/vote]

[Titus]

UNVOTE: Cephir's selfvote

[Titus]

If someone has claimed scum we lynch them.

The point was not to have the watcher tracker out unless they had a guilty. The idea if SSK was the doctor and a watcher/tracker could just tunnel on SSK if he didb't do what he said. Subtle check. There is no intent to delay. However if some can prove how SSK claimed scum, without outinf, I will vote SSK to death.

I can look at the VCs gm. The VC at the time of SSK's claim was SH and Casso at 3 votes, Varsoon at 1. Ligic suggests one of those two would be wagoned.

Nacho, Thor, SH, who fools you as scum? I doubt you both are scum but I would expect scum to go onto the next high town wagon cuz deadline.

Norkalz, who are you? You seem to imply we have played together.

This is me.

[Titus]

GM, I'm not a lazy player regardless of alignment but it does take me awhile to get my feet wet when I don't have a QT that summarizes.

Also, what zMuffin did was a fencesit. He took no strong positions and just said well it could be this and it could be that. That by it's definition is fenceshitty.

N, I'm a strong debater when I'm dealing with facts more than emotion. If something MUST be a particular way, I am damn good. We need to break a setup together at some point but it looks like this one won't be it.

[Titus]

Neither. It says I'm not a scum, mason, neighborizer or anything else that would have a QT to summarize. It wasn't deliberate though. People kept mentioning the fire game and I was scum so I had a basic summary background already. A few basic questions and I was good to go for a 200+ page game. I probably shouldn't have said that because we don't need scum having more information.

[Titus]

I mean even theoretically, it could leave open scum without a strong summary in the QT there. It's just basically I got no summary ATM.

[Titus]

Sakura is pinging scum for me. More of a gut thing. I'm going to crunch the D1 and D2 wagons just by voting pattern (not reason).

[Titus]

Not all scum qts have strong summaries so yeah not a town tell. Scum without daytalk, and poor night summary is very possible even with a replace in fumbling. Don't use that as a towntell. If you do, when I am scum, I will burn you. I love burning outside tells like that.

[Titus]

Great, well I'd like to sort you then Sakura.

Who is your biggest townread? Why?
Who is your biggest scumread? Why?
What do you think of Casso? Why? If Casso is your biggest town or scum read, give me your next best town or scum read.

[Titus]

Wonderful news!!!

I have permission to kill Hana

vote:Hana

So why is the wagon on Sakura even happening?

That's Lynch -1

Claim please?

Claim please?

Nah I wont claim, live with the burden of it.

The posts above, while not appearing to make sense together are troubline in their own right. I am looking from the start of the VC before SH's wagon until she hits L minus 1.

Tammy was the first on the wagon. Assuming this is accurate, then scum killing Tammy makes a very logical play since SH is a threat to scum!Sakura.

Yet, some of the votes on the wagon are sketchy as fuck. For instance KoreanBBQ softclaims Vig (permission to kill) but the vig is already dead in the graveyard.

Sakura's refusal to claim should have been a death sentence but somehow she lives.

Korean

explin the above post please.

[Titus]

No but why the apparent softclaim of vig. That was no where near a hammer vote.

[Titus]

That's bullshit.

VOTE: KoreanBBQ

If you really didn't understand, the confusion should have been the first thing you said. Second, the softclaim s innately obvious as only vigs and sks need permission to kill. Die scum.

[Titus]

That soft-claim post came before the dead vig.

Nice discredit btw. It is longer than a good chunk of your posts.

[Titus]

@Thor/Generic, if either of you have questions regarding what I do as scum, check out asoiaf and micro See Nine. For a town replace in this size, check out Dr. Who's last great time war. I don't care for meta. Yet, it seems like you all do.


I need to get into the game more. Care to do vca with me Prophy? We have enough flips where we might get something. I am utterly convinced there is something off with the wagon on Stuffed Crust. Do you want to know where I am leaning or fly blind?

[Titus]

3. giests are cleared by gunsmith
4. KoreanBBQ is

town as hell

scum that tried to softclaim vig.

FTFY!

[Titus]

those reads are so fucking weird it almost makes me wanna call him town

Why are they wierd? Why do wierd reads make you want to call him town?

[Titus]

Ok, I will try to compile mine in the next 48 hours.

[Titus]

3. giests are cleared by gunsmith
4. KoreanBBQ is

town as hell

scum that tried to softclaim vig.

FTFY!

Lets lynch me instead.

I'm a VT, so nothing to lose.

I'm tired, stressed, and totally done with this game.

*whistles*

So you "claimed" under absolutely no pressure at all, trying to draw a lynch to yourself and we're all supposed to a) believe you and b) believe that's something town does?

Also, for those of you scumreading me, how about throwing me a question or two rather than making me try to read tea leaves through all these accusations that I am scum. What about my posting is off? Just saying someone is scum over and over is exactly how mislynches get pushed through because no one looks at the reasoning.

[Titus]

ffery, that makes some sense. Is Mara also the type to have gut reads and the obscure her real reasoning by providing other (probably weaker) reasons in-thread to not give away strategic advantages?

Generic, your point about Cephrir resonates with me because one of the things I found off about him was his interaction with me. When no one suspected me D1, he defended me calling Sakura's FOS on me "moonlogic" in 959 and expresses approval of my objection to Pieguyn's GoodMorning read in 961, agreeing with me on Rofl in 1071 and in general treading very carefully. He also appreciating my meta-dive of DOMO in 1320. However, after a few people suspect me, his tone then changes with him starting to throw slight suspicion in 2744, 3695, and 4021. However, after I start pushing on him, he backs off and again starts reading me as town which I feel is similar to what you describe. I didn't feel that his reads had any genuine scumhunting behind them but rather sucking up to universally townread players while setting up suspicion on players that could be suspicious which is what I gathered from his interaction with me.

Or maybe he read you as scum and your responses convinced him otherwise?

[Titus]

@ Proph, I have a town read on ms marangal and I mentored her when she first started playing on our old site. If you want to discuss why you have a scum read her I will tell you where you have gone wrong because she is one of my stronger town reads.

Geists is technically clear currently because of DOMOs gun smith result, because they are either town or scum doc so the odds suggest town for he time being.

Beyond that I need to scrutinise you as much as possible because you replaced a suspect of mine. Wasn't a strong read because it was bert, but he was acting more oddly before he left the game.

The plus side is that I have an idea what to look for with you so let's play ball!

@ Titus, who says I care about meta? I utilise it when I have a strong knowledge of feeling about a person, but when I see tells or convenient/well timed responses or actions I delve a little deeper.
And you walked into a slot that thought I was an easy target, and when they realised I have teeth they resorts to "I'm such a victim" posting.
If your response to me is to sell me your meta with a qualifier that you don't believe in meta (what I like to call a trap door argument) then I'm not being sold.

I'm not trying to "sell" you anything. I'm trying to give you a whole picture while guessing as to what is fueling the suggestion that I am scum. I'm not by the way. The context seemed that meta played a factor in your decision, so I provided it. Just because I wouldn't use something, doesn't mean other smart players won't.

[Titus]

Now, that's just utter bullshit. I don't ignore the context. How the hell was I "ignoring the context" of your vig softclaim? You need to say something more than your OMGUS shit. You're practically screaming Vig and then just try to do VT afterwards. If one is caught, you say "the context was clear I meant the other".

You could say

I'm a vig: I claimed VT so I wouldn't get shot.
I'm a VT: It's what I claimed straight up, the softclaims were me trying to get killed.

Yeah, pretty fucking convenient. That's your context. Of course, when you lost the fact you couldn't be a vig and you were claiming something you weren't you try to deny the softclaims entirely as it is your only move left.

[Titus]

I am taking the context into consideration.

1) You soft-claim vig.
2) You claim VT.
3) When called out, you deny the soft-claim of Vig.
4) You self-voted allegedly trying to draw the wagon to yourself. This suggests scum bc it suggests someone piss poorly white knighting SC.

What "context" am I missing?

[Titus]

Wonderful news!!!

I have permission to kill Hana

vote:Hana

This is the vig softclaim I have been asking everyone to look at.

[Titus]

Great well I'm sure Generic can come in and tell me that if "everyone" thinks I'm wrong. This looks like a "everyone believes it" fallacy. You should be aware you can fool all the people some of the time, all the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all the people all of the time.

Ok, so basically my theory is tinfoil according to Generic because I'm scum and that's ambiguous. Well ambiguity is the point of a soft claim. A scum doc isn't too preposterous given the size of the group. Also, look at KBBQs iso, he almost always picks kill over language.


So does anyone have a question or eludication as to why I'm "not a strong townread"? Or is it just sheep the scum who don't claim responsibility day?

[Titus]

Total opposite until that post titus quoted.
After that, we moved to townreading her.

So you began townreading Hana solely because I began being suspicious that Hana wasn't the day one wagon but SC was?

[Titus]

Great well I'm sure Generic can come in and tell me that if "everyone" thinks I'm wrong. This looks like a "everyone believes it" fallacy. You should be aware you can fool all the people some of the time, all the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all the people all of the time.

Ok, so basically my theory is tinfoil according to Generic because I'm scum and that's ambiguous. Well ambiguity is the point of a soft claim. A scum doc isn't too preposterous given the size of the group. Also, look at KBBQs iso, he almost always picks kill over

lynch

language.


So does anyone have a question or eludication as to why I'm "not a strong townread"? Or is it just sheep the scum who don't claim responsibility day?

Mod, can you fix my prior post to add the bolded language and delete this?

~Cannot do that, sorry. (Empire)

[Titus]

3. giests are cleared by gunsmith
4. KoreanBBQ is

town as hell

scum that tried to softclaim vig.

FTFY!

This argument is still bad, and you should still feel bad.

Lets lynch me instead.

I'm a VT, so nothing to lose.

I'm tired, stressed, and totally done with this game.

*whistles*

So you "claimed" under absolutely no pressure at all, trying to draw a lynch to yourself and we're all supposed to a) believe you and b) believe that's something town does?

Question, since you want them: why would Scum intentionally draw a lynch in that situation?

It was never meant to work. Just meant as an appeal saying SC is town for reasons.


Pushing the guy who softclaimed vig when he cannot b a vig is a good of reason as any. Look at all the people pushing me as scum when I have had two theories. 1) At least SH or Casso is scum an 2> kbbq is scum. Usually ppl don't jump all over me as a replacemen so fast. It suggests I am on the right path.

[Titus]

SC was never given the opportunity to claim. He was quickhammerred. Can y'all please start making sense?

[Titus]

Casso, strong lean town but he's likely scum whiteknighting me if Sakura isn't scum
Generic, lean town
Prophy, town
Geists, townish... I would probbly be scumreading him but for the gs. He could be a mafia doctor given we have a vig.
The masons are well the masons.


Sakura an Kbbq are scumreads atm.
Noral is someone who I want to read fast.


Ok ignoring new posts for awhile doing vca.

[Titus]

First blush vca on day 1. This does not include day 2.

Major wagons existed on SSK, BBQ, Sakura and F16.

SSK vote parking on BBQ suggests he isn't scum but notably SSK didn't vote BBQ when he could actually be lynched.

F16 stands out because he was a major wagon and his voters were people who I have little problems with.
Sakura's wagon is pretty much the same. Sakura self-voted. Casso really demolished the Sakura wagon with his talk to me unvote. Really, at L minus 1, Sakurahas every incentive she needs to talk to claim.
Sakura vote shifted a lot but was rarely on the SSK wagon, if ever.

The demolition of the SH wagon forced the group to deadline mode. SSK withholds his PR claim long enough to give the group the ability to mislynch. Notably, SH is skipped along with Casso. Bert jumps onto the SC wagon when he could have sheeped the SH wagon.

Right now, VCA without reasons suggests Sakura, SSK scum, weak read on F16. Yet an even weaker one on Prophy. Casso is also not sitting right now, particularly for 3711 through 3715. SSK goes from null to scum very fast.

[Titus]

This would be a lot easier, Titus, if you just told us who your partners are.

McM and goodmorning are two. I am trying to find the rest silly.

[Titus]

Revised reads

SH and SSK need to die
Casso, weak town
Prophy, start your vca please.
Geists, get out of your tunnel and do something useful.
Generic, let's talk, weak town.

[Titus]

VOTE: MafiaSSK

[Titus]

What the fuck are you talking about?

[Titus]

My vca supposed ssk was scum. I factored that in. I also factored in the known townies.

[Titus]

This is vague as fuck. If it is obvious SH was scum, why didn't you fight for her to be the deadline wagon? Hmm...no given the amount of ppl townreading SH and her biggest scumreaders are in the graveyard (Tammy and Desp) that's far from obvious.

[Titus]

5-6 votes is not lynchable when lynch requires 11.

Geists, speak English!

[Titus]

This is vague as fuck. If it is obvious SH was scum, why didn't you fight for her to be the deadline wagon? Hmm...no given the amount of ppl townreading SH and her biggest scumreaders are in the graveyard (Tammy and Desp) that's far from obvious.

The call calls for you, not her, today.

Sorry,you called my conclusion of SH scum obvious, do you agree or not?
If so, why was SH scum obvious?

If not, then my conclusions aren't obvious.

Btw, ignore Dr. Who why don't you. I was just as confused there.

[Titus]

Pick up a brain capable of reading me while you are there. The smart kid who you feel no one gets will do nicely.

[Titus]

Korean, I say who the scum are, not who I hope buys it. Either I am right or I am wrong. All the SSK votes do is suggest you are not scum. Vig softclaim strongly suggests you are scum. Take your null and b happy.

Yeah your wagon might have reached 8. The whole point is the scum don't vote each other when they think it can go through. Don't try to force me to townead you. It won't work.

[Titus]

Titus I might stop tunneling you (no promises) if you drop your gawdawful dumb case on KBBQ. If you don't, I'm going to want to lynch you regardless of your alignment.

It is shit like this that has me paranoid. Throwing cases is how I scumhunt.

[Titus]

Pie, there's pros and cons to the BBQ case. I am working it out. So yeah, I am not dropping it, but I am not 100% sure KBBQ is scum. I will work it out. I hate being bullied which is what geists is doing.

Why the hell would passed up a jump on the Casso wagon matter? When is that? Casso was never a viable D1 wagon anyway.

[Titus]

Pieguyn, that wagon did not show up in the VCs. I will read that post.

F16, it takes me awhile to replace in. I am thinking of asking the mod if it's possible to start a quicktopic in this game in the rare event I must replace out. If that became standard, then this lag would not be as big of an issue. Why did you vote park on McM, F16?

[Titus]

Oh it appeared as three votes gotcha. Looking now. SSK avoiding casso and SH suggests distancing on SH particularly with his 180 on SH. In light of that post alone Casso looks weaker. I cannot see scumCasso stickng up for me though.

Who were the other voter(s)?

[Titus]

I can buy that it takes you a while to replace in but your stubbornness seems out of place especially considering the strength of your case. It looks like you are trying to fix your mistakes from ASOIAF. I "voteparked" because I am generally slow to vote and switch votes.

I am being stubborn as to the possibility which is appropriate given the fact I think BBQ softclaimed vig and that's impossible. That feeling is not going to change despite my vc suggesting BBQ town. So yeah, I am going to be stubborn about him being a nullread since I have two sets of conflicting evidnce. Totally appropriate.

[Titus]

Really, at L minus 1, Sakurahas every incentive she needs to talk to claim.

You mean L-2 right?

I am going to reverify but pretty sure Casso unvoted when you where at L minus 1.

[Titus]

Day 1, Votecount 69

Sakura Hana (10)

-

Tammy, Casso the King of Seals, DOMO, Ser Arthur Dayne, Sakura Hana, geists, Desperado, KoreanBBQ, MC Maraca, Bert

Casso the King of Seals (3)

-

zMuffinMan, goodmorning, Generic

Stuffed Crust (2)

-

Cephrir, pieguyn

F-16_Fighting_Falcon (1)

-

BROseidon

goodmorning (1)

-

Norlkaz

Not Voting (3)

-

MafiaSSK, F-16_Fighting_Falcon, Stuffed Crust

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch! Deadline is on December 26th at 3:45 PM EST or in (expired on 2013-12-26 16:44:27)

Mod Notes

-

Varsoon head of Stuffed Crust V/LA until January 25th. F-16_Fighting_Falcon is V/LA until the 31st. goodmorning is V/LA until the 26th. DOMO is V/LA until the 27th. Generic is V/LA until the 26th.

Unvote

Sakura, come back, respond to case, talk to me.
There's no reason to shut down now just because you got deadline wagoned.
There have been cases put out against you; you didn't respond to most of them.

I will be back later but I have no ideas outside of eternal compromise lynch of SSK.

Yeah, Casso unvoted you at L minus 1.

[Titus]

I am going to reverify but pretty sure Casso unvoted when you where at L minus 1.

I was indeed 1 vote away from lynch, but I mean, i could've unvoted and be at L-2 just as easily, why do you think i didnt, do that and refused to claim?

Yeah you're totally asking questions designed to discredit. The refusal to claim is scumfucks/vengeful/spirit. I lynch on the spot for that. Period, especially with looming deadline.

@Pie, tentative town, bc so many scumreads. That's gun to my head had to pick. If no gun, I would say null.

[Titus]

I lynch on the spot for that.

Exactly!

So my big question is why the fuck did that wagon dissolve? Voila.. More vidence you are scum.

[Titus]

I lynch on the spot for that.

Exactly!

So my big question is why the fuck did that wagon dissolve? Voila.. More vidence you are scum.

I think you missed the point.

Walk me through it. Slowly.

[Titus]

what do you think of the associatives between SAD and zmuffin? or do you think that should wait till SAD flips

Associatives are decent but shouldn't be used heavily unless he alignment of one of the parties is known.

That being said, what associatives?

[Titus]

I lynch on the spot for that.

Exactly!

So my big question is why the fuck did that wagon dissolve? Voila.. More vidence you are scum.

Oh look. Not looking deeper into context yet again.
I'm not surprised.

I am not ignoring, whatever context SH wishes to elaborate on. Frankly, refusal to claim is one of the clearest brightline things there is.

[Titus]

SH, I don't give a shit for safe. I don't really care you didn't beat Thor to unvoting yourself as it wouldn't have worked with your AtE anyway. I don't really care for meta and I love fucking with towntells as scum. I did that myself in the fire game. Votes mean more than words to me. Besides, you said it's obvious to think you are scum with that vca. Occam's Razor, you are scum.

BBQ, why do you keep pushing me as scum without evidence, I at least said mine.

[Titus]

My case isn't terrible. Two vigs is nigh on impossible. The only possible disagreement is whether you actually softclaimed vig. If someone disagrees with that, they won't scumread you. It's a valid case. Whether it is sound is debatable. How you softclaimed is pretty much how I would softclaim.

I have played the game. I posted a shiny vca and even accepted he results when they were partially inconsistent with my read on you. Will you quit acting like a five year old because someone suspects you? God, wading through all this AtE is headache inducing.

[Titus]

I have a new deal. You post your so called evidence, and I will feed it to you when you get lynched scum. I almost never self-vote or asked to be lynched. Don't offer me deals but straight up facts.

AtE is an appeal to emotion.

[Titus]

Geists, what is your read on Casso? His play suggests town to me but the VCA troubled me a fair amount. What is zMuffin's position?

[Titus]

Casso, strong lean town but he's likely scum whiteknighting me if Sakura isn't scum

if your thoughts on casso being town are really that strong, why would sakura's alignment change things?

Geists, townish... I would probbly be scumreading him but for the gs. He could be a mafia doctor given we have a vig.

how do you have geists as "townish" if they'd be scum but for the gunsmith result?

also, what happened to your read on me / why wasn't i mentioned in your reads list? or what was with the whole fence-sitting accusation and how did things change there?

For the read on you, one fence sitty post does not warrant a read. Both town and scum can make a fenceshit. I usually fence sit more often as town than I do as scum. I gave a reads list for players I felt I at least had a somewhat handle on. You weren't included in that list because I didn't have a read on you fully. Both you and Pie are right to follow up in that regard. When Pie asked for a read on you, I gave one as tentative as I had been feeling on you. I don't put reads stronger than what I feel at the time.

As for Geists, his play for awhile was just focused on me, I don't see much depth there. I can see why the GS "copped" him. Paranoia suggests mafia doc or that DOMO was RBed. I almost always read someone wrong as town though so I'm thinking he SHOULD be town but my gut screams he's scum. If that doesn't make sense, please ask more reasoned questions.

As for Casso, Thor whiteknights me as scum sometimes. See Walking Dead. Overall, I like his play as town, but Thor looked town in Walking Dead to me too. A deadline lynch should go to the most popular wagon remaining if it's not pushed by scum. So my gut tells me that one of Sakura/Casso must be scum given the fact both of their wagons were skipped at the end. Casso and SH could be scum together possibly too with the VCA suggesting SH scum and Casso's unvote. If SH is town, I almost certainly will believe Casso is whiteknighting me again.

[Titus]

Oh and whoever said Sangres in Walking Dead, I probably didn't excuse Sangres's excuse for not claiming either. I probably wanted him lynched for a good part of the game. So yeah.

[Titus]

Oh and whoever said Sangres in Walking Dead, I probably didn't excuse Sangres's excuse for not claiming either. I probably wanted him lynched for a good part of the game. So yeah.

Point being while rules of thumb like this are convenient (especially for scum needing to work up a quick basis for a vote), when applied out of the context of a player's overall play in a game, they are often wrong.

Then it wouldn't be a rule or a policy lynch. Period. Yeah, I may be wrong, but I want that behavior eliminated as it is very detrimental. People need to claim.

I'll go try to find that discussion after a nice long nap. I've had a bad day and I really don't want to take it out on the game.

[Titus]

but I want that behavior eliminated as it is very detrimental. People need to claim.

Things like this make it pretty easy for scum to rolefish.

Well if scum keep putting people to L-1, wagon analysis should out them. So yeah, not changing that. If that leaves me prone to the occasional wagon rolefish, so be it.

[Titus]

Geists, that statement is of no help whatsoever. You completely ignore the fact that scum just driving up wagons leaves them exposed to being caught in VCA and thus isn't helpful at all to them because I will find the scums. That is if you actually let me do that aside from just shouting I'm scum all the damn time.

[Titus]

Make up your damned mind what your stance on me is.

I am scumreading you based on play but the gs is pretty damning evidence I am wrong. So yeah, that's my thought on you. Don't act like I am not giving a reasoned opinion because I highlight my gut is disagreeing with the facts. Scum would likely just townread you and be done with it.

SH, who the hell is they?

Generic, I would hope he shows up with that VCA we promised to work out. He likes vca. I like it and I'd like a second opinion on that.

[Titus]

SH, Bert was perfectly willing to sheep the three dead townies when they were voting SC but not when they were voting you. What is your take on that? To me, it reads you as scum but I don't want to death tunnel if wrong.

[Titus]

SH, let me pull up your wagon, and the other wagons day 1 and see who is the common denominator.

True, but that was when Bert put you to L-1 when you looked like an obvious lynch. After Mastin's wagon fell apart, and you two were skipped, that's when Bert didn't sheep and I'd expect Bert to sheep Tammy + Desp if y'all weren't scumbuddies.

[Titus]

Casso the King of Seals (5) - zMuffinMan,

goodmorning

, pieguyn, Generic,

Bert

MANY POSTS LATER

Sakura Hana (10) -

Tammy

,

Casso the King of Seals,

DOMO,

Ser Arthur Dayne,

Sakura Hana

,

geists

,

Desperado

,

KoreanBBQ

,

MC Maraca

,

Bert

Supposing you two are both town and scum drove up your wagons (which is an assumption I do not agree with), then Ser Arthur Danye and Bert would have to be scum.

However, let's look at the composition of the SH wagon.

I've color corded the wagons. Green is known town or mason. Yellow are players I'm supposing are town for the purposes of the question, green are known town. Orange are the players I am scumreading but for outside facts clearing them. Pink are leaning scum reads for the both of us.

Bert couldn't drive up the wagon from the rear, as he's not that skilled as scum. The only player left from Sakura POV (provided you don't suddenly agree with me that Korean crumbed vig) is Ser Arthur Dayne. Scum couldn't have driving up the Sakura wagon. If Sakura was town, they would have echoed my reasonings for lynching Sakura and have been done with her as a mislynch.

[Titus]

SH, you were refusing to give the town information or be held down to a position. You knew most of the wagon was town (again assuming scum you), so it would be harder to get a lynch off if your buddies didn't bus. Why give town a claim if you're close to the deadline and anything would just give them information?

That's the thing of a policy lynch, why would scum be scared if they truly believed a policy lynch. If I was in the game at that point, you'd be dead. I wouldn't give two shits if that put a target on my back for today.

[Titus]

And we'd have a dead scum in you.

SH, if you really are claiming that scum drove up your wagon to draw a claim, who is the scum?

[Titus]

SH, so you're saying scum drove up your wagon to claim, but you've said the only scum came on at the end. That makes absolutely no sense SH.

No, SH, I want you dead. Claiming is a necessary side effect. You and SSK are almost certainly buddies. Everyone that's opposed you has started to wind up dead and we're on day fucking 2.

[Titus]

Derp, Day 3.

[Titus]

Yeah, come on. Look at it from an outsider's perspective...

Suspect claims scum drove up wagon... suspect clears all but the tail end as scum and the weakest player is scum. Suspect claims facts inconsistent with their own theory. The suspect's wagon was skipped by the suspect's own scumread in favor of another townread. It doesn't pass the smell test. Scum didn't drive up your wagon. Town did.

[Titus]

I'd be thrilled to hammer you tomorrow as we have apparent confscum today. If you're a vengeful scum lord, I'll take that risk.

Yeah, you're reasoning is circular on Casso btw. You've been having me assume he is town. I am not so sure the validity of that assumption. However, you can't argue scum drove up your wagon SH and then proceed to clear everyone on it. It's a joke and a laughing stock.

[Titus]

I'm not sure what this response is. You have been arguing that scum drove your wagon but promptly claim there's no scum in the front part of the wagon. That's ludicrious.

You can also take a dive on behalf of your scumbuddy, especially if you are the vengeful type. Of course, if you just take out the last voter on your wagon, then I got no problems hammering you tomorrow.

I can find the scum just fine Sakura when I get into a groove.

[Titus]

You've also defeated the premise though, in order for it to work, scum would have to routinely drive the wagons to L-1 to get repeated claims. That didn't happen in your case, so the whole premise is invalid. Scum didn't drive you up seeking a claim.

Also, what words did I put into your mouth.

You just said SAD was clear, Casso is clear, all the conftowns are clear. That leaves geists, BBQ and Bert as possible scum. You've obviously not been buying geists or BBQ as scum due to context. So that leaves Bert as the scum driving your wagon (while it's likely he's scum) that's just laughable.

How often do towns get total town wagons on them day 1? Never.

Rather, I think you are scum, this conversation makes me more convinced Casso is your partner and that you are bussing Bert.

Sakura, Bert, Casso, MafiaSSK (who I occasionally like a dumbass call Mastin). Those four need to die. Logically, that means I MUST be wrong about at least one of geists/BBQ if my set from before is accurate.

[Titus]

Now that's taking words out of my mouth.

Your argument about scum driving up your wagon is shit. Your refusal to say that the facts don't support your claim is suspicious. You also don't answer who the scum was that was

driving

your wagon like you implied.

You were a hydra in See nine minus minus and I also scumread you in the prequel to that as well. You were the vig that time and shot me for it.

[Titus]

but I want that behavior eliminated as it is very detrimental. People need to claim.

Things like this make it pretty easy for scum to rolefish.

This is where you started the implication that scum were rolefishing. Now, it's pretty clear they weren't. You should be policy lynched tomorrow.

[Titus]

You should be policy lynched tomorrow.

Alright, but you'll hammer then.

Consider whenever you're in hammer range, I will hammer the living daylights out of you scum.

[Titus]

Ok, so can we get back to lynching SSK?

Never left his wagon.

[Titus]

Yeah, come on. Look at it from an outsider's perspective...

Suspect claims scum drove up wagon... suspect clears all but the tail end as scum and the weakest player is scum. Suspect claims facts inconsistent with their own theory. The suspect's wagon was skipped by the suspect's own scumread in favor of another townread. It doesn't pass the smell test. Scum didn't drive up your wagon. Town did.

This is actually not the worst case ever.

Ofc, Casso is Scum, but other than that, not horrible.

I approve of Norl's most recent readslist.

I'm actually town so yeah, it takes me awhile to get moving but once I get moving I sound a lot smarter. Let's talk and hash some things out.

First, your post implies that there's a problem with thinking Casso is scum and that you think I like Casso as town. This is partially accurate, as I like his playing but not his votes on day 1. Care to elaborate to help me figure out which is more likely Casso?

Second, if you think Casso being is scum as horrible, why would you approve of Norl's readlist? ~confused~

[Titus]

Yeah, come on. Look at it from an outsider's perspective...

Suspect claims scum drove up wagon... suspect clears all but the tail end as scum and the weakest player is scum. Suspect claims facts inconsistent with their own theory. The suspect's wagon was skipped by the suspect's own scumread in favor of another townread. It doesn't pass the smell test. Scum didn't drive up your wagon. Town did.

To be fair to Hana, these are the day 1 major wagons in FEA. (sans the wagon on scum)
PeregrineV 7 (chesskid3, Thirdkoopa, talah, ActionDan, Saki, Ellibereth, notscience)

only one team scum on this wagon

Makiavel 6 (Nero Cain, chesskid3, Ellibereth, GoodCop_BadCop, Rift Adrift, notscience)
one scum

Sakura Hana 7 (chesskid3, Ellibereth, T S O, GoodCop_BadCop, ActionDan, Nero Cain, Nat
no scum

talah 6 (BulbaFenix, Maestro, Nero Cain, Natirasha, Makiavel-slot, Sakura Hana)
one scum

This limited data suggests (and I personally have the same theory) that town are more responsible for running up a wagon than scum. I think its a totes natural town reaction to think a wagon is scum lead.

Hana is prob town unless you think she's faking the whole "I quit mafia!"/edit signature thing. I think someone called that the blacklist tell.
Do you think she is faking?

If someone is aware of a tell, you have to be considering the possibility of a fake.

I LOVE fucking with tells as scum. It was my main drive in Fire and Ice.

[Titus]

Now that I have a bit more content, I will put together my own wall.

Town
Myself
Masons (they will not both be alive at lylo, so this is self-verification to an extent)
Geists (based on being smithed)
Pieguy
Generic
SAD
Muffin
Norl
Cowbell
F16
KoreanBBQ
Geists (based on play)
Casso (poor reaction to my posts)
SH
SSK
Prophylaxis

[Titus]

Yeah, come on. Look at it from an outsider's perspective...

Suspect claims scum drove up wagon... suspect clears all but the tail end as scum and the weakest player is scum. Suspect claims facts inconsistent with their own theory. The suspect's wagon was skipped by the suspect's own scumread in favor of another townread. It doesn't pass the smell test. Scum didn't drive up your wagon. Town did.

To be fair to Hana, these are the day 1 major wagons in FEA. (sans the wagon on scum)
PeregrineV 7 (chesskid3, Thirdkoopa, talah, ActionDan, Saki, Ellibereth, notscience)

only one team scum on this wagon

Makiavel 6 (Nero Cain, chesskid3, Ellibereth, GoodCop_BadCop, Rift Adrift, notscience)
one scum

Sakura Hana 7 (chesskid3, Ellibereth, T S O, GoodCop_BadCop, ActionDan, Nero Cain, Nat
no scum

talah 6 (BulbaFenix, Maestro, Nero Cain, Natirasha, Makiavel-slot, Sakura Hana)
one scum

This limited data suggests (and I personally have the same theory) that town are more responsible for running up a wagon than scum. I think its a totes natural town reaction to think a wagon is scum lead.

Hana is prob town unless you think she's faking the whole "I quit mafia!"/edit signature thing. I think someone called that the blacklist tell.
Do you think she is faking?

If someone is aware of a tell, you have to be considering the possibility of a fake.

I LOVE fucking with tells as scum. It was my main drive in Fire and Ice.

Except that's kinda not what I asked. I asked if you believe she is faking it. Since you have a scumread on it then I guess you do believe that. I've considered the possibility that it's fake and considering that her scum meta is essentially "fakes town tells" its plenty possible that she's faking here. When she pulled this "OMFG I HATE MS"/"lynch me." crap in FEA I thought it was the scummiest shit but she was somehow town. She's not doing the whole lynch me crap and she refused to claim here as where she did claim in FEA. Do you think her refusal to claim here but claiming as town in FEA makes her scum? This is like 50/50 policy lynch territory me thinks. GIF thinks she's really town though.

Talk to me about her play in FEA and here.

What are the big differences?

If you are asking me the bolded, and you are the Nero head, you have not learned much from playing with me. Meta isn't relevant (as it can be emulated like you said). Rather, what people say about meta is important. The way SH uses it to "self-confirm" is scummy as hell.

I did the same, use meta to self-confirm, and it won us the game partially. So if a player vouches for their own towntell, I ignore the argument entirely.

[Titus]

Casso (poor reaction to my posts)

What kind of reaction were you expecting then?

More of a dialogue. Questions. My eyes hurt isn't even clear. Is it the colors or the content? Is Casso just wanting people to ignore the point entirely.

[Titus]

This list is interesting because you are more sure of geists than of the masons... And also more sure of f16 who to be fair to him has not blacklist telled, been gun Smithed or claimed a town PR.

To be fair, I (and I think GIF too, dunno) don't think the masons are confirmed town either. They could very well be masons (hence why I have no desire to lynch them) but some of Mara and GM's play doesn't fill me with big town vibes.

Why did you not call us on this?

Confirmed town tend to be more abrasive in their scumhunting, which is exactly what gm is doing. Scum will resolve the masons soon nough. Let it go.

[Titus]

KBBQ, you could try reading my posts.

1) Self-vouching she towntold
2) VCA analysis
3) Her play here is much more reactive
4) She implies claims and motives to scum that didn't apply to her own wagon according to her own reads

[Titus]

SH has overly hinted at her role. I will call her bluff when she gets in lynch range. Hopefully tomorrow. It's anti-town the way she is using her role though if I am right on her hints. Then again, it makes sense if she's scum.

GM, go on. What are you drawing from that?

[Titus]

It appears to me you did. You did it how I would, so it is a logical conclusion to draw.

[Titus]

Korean, because I want to be the one to call SH's bluff. People will race for towncred if I laid it out there. I don't want SH lynched in a race fot towncred but bc she us scum. In fact, too many people wanting to be the hammer ensures SH will not get lynched. That and Sakura is a little harder for me to crack as she isn't crumbing that like I would. Your crumbs are just like I wrote the.

[Titus]

SH has overly hinted at her role. I will call her bluff when she gets in lynch range. Hopefully tomorrow. It's anti-town the way she is using her role though if I am right on her hints. Then again, it makes sense if she's scum.

GM, go on. What are you drawing from that?

Well, there are really only three options that would work:
Both Town - Exactly as Casso described it happening.
Both Scum - Casso contrives the wagon so Sakura can flail for towncred.
Casso Town, Sakura Scum - Same as "Both Town," except that Casso was wrong.

Now, as I think Casso is Scum, it's obvious which I think is the likeliest.

(Casso Scum, Sakura Town is being discounted because it would have been a bit too easy for Casso to just lurk out a hammer in that case. Maybe someone would have come in to shout "LOOK AT HER TOWNING THERE" but I sort of doubt it.)

Agreed. I like scum scum bc Casso nor Sakura was strung up after the SSK lynch failed Day 1.

[Titus]

Sakura, I feel rejected. You don't ask a guy out and then forget all about it in the middle of our date! Anyways, you haven't gotten back to me on what about my play bugged you that was original and not addressed before.

It was... well I dont remember exactly on who, but you kind of weren't pushing someone because you had no scumreads, then suddenly you got scumreads despite having a lot of nulls to do PoE.

Also, I know you sometimes tend to self-vote or ask for your lynch as both town and scum. Can you provide me with links to games in which you did this? As many of each would do. 5-6 of each would be a pretty good sample.

Ok let me see if i can find them:

Town

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p5017856 First time I Self-Voted as town, not much AtE in here tho.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p5091276 Self-Hammer.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p5072732 Not sure if this counts as AtE but was quite apologetic.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p5140309 First time meeting Cabd whose tunneling lead me into a breakdown then Self-Hammer.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p5156654 The Blacklist Tell Nacho's talking about.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p5222069 The infamous Xenologue, where everyone incl. Nacho and Mara read me so wrong I Self-Hammered out of frustration.

Scum

?
While looking through my own games I realize I don't remember when I've done AtE as scum (considering any AtE in there would be fake it's hard to remember games and how i felt)

Here let me help you out
I'm surprised pieguy never brought this up. Now please stop townreading me off a non-existant "towntell"

Like hell you don't want people reading you as town due to your meta. You are pissed someone called you out on it.

[Titus]

Korean, I don't care what Pie reads it as, unless Pie can prove I am wrong.

@SH, is that for GM or me?

[Titus]

Korean, hardly, I am less desperate. Now that I can talk, without just defending baseless innuendo, people are seeing my analysis of the game.

[Titus]

Wait if i flip town will you stop going after Casso's head then?

I still want this answered, considering my job is to get lynched and Casso's way more of an asset to town than me i'd be willing to trade that.

Was this for GM or me?

[Titus]

If you flip town, it is less likely for Casso to be scum, so I would turn my attention to others. It wouldn't clear him and he'd have VCA issues but I wouldn'tpush him over other suspects.

[Titus]

I still think it's possible. Likely, not as much. A) Casso would be associated negatively if you flipped town b) he could be afraid of dying.

I find it more indicative of scum and scum unlessby fluke a shit ton of town agreed to lynch you.

[Titus]

I am presuming without reading that you were town in FEA. If you get wagoned so much as town, then you should look at your playstyle as you are doing something the site meta sees as scummy. Rather than the melodrama, what about giving hard positions that are consistent with the fcts?

[Titus]

Rather than the melodrama, what about giving hard positions that are consistent with the fcts?

I already gave many stances
Casso, SAD, gm, geists, Mara are town.
You, SSK and Proph are scum.

Then, you seriously need to relook here. The scum team you are suggesting makes no plausible sense. We both came in and scumread each other immediately (well he is scum you are right on that). Would scum orchestrate a double replace bus? That doesn't make sense unless the scum team was boned. Given the mislynches and shots, that's far from the case. You are running from all signs shots and deaths point to SH scum and are trying to link m with your byddies.

Generic, it sounds like no matter what I would do, you were just going to scumread me for what Ceph did.

[Titus]

I pointed out you are likely scum and the purpose of today was to scumhunt and lynch SSK at the end. If I didn't vote you, then I wouldn't be scumhunting. Your proposition is a catch 22.

[Titus]

1) Varsoon is one of the best players in the game. That's just bullshit that lynching him benefitted the town. Varsoon will figure out the game and likely so will Mac.
2) Desperado's lynch turned out wrong, so why don't we do VCA on that? Who was scum on the wagon?
3) Shots matter because who the scum shoot suggests who they are threatened by. The fact that the people suggesting SH is scum are all dead (Tammy, Desp, DOMO) should not be ignored. Scum generally don't shoot people townreading them.
4) After SSK and Proph, the rest of your reads aren't that great and aren't really justified as you haven't commented on them or asked a question. Seems like you are going with the flow.
5) No. A couple people have. I don't really care. It just mirrors my own crumb process too closely.

[Titus]

Why would the scum be so quick to frame so early when they could take out people who actually threaten their wincon? DOMO is the weakest I admit bc he was a gunsmith and could clear people (especially given the vig). Still, it's too many deaths too systemically to be a frame job. I'd turn my attention to who other than you was threatened by Tammy/Desp but you ain't flipping town.

[Titus]

Desperado (10)(LYNCH) -

MC Maraca,

Casso the King of Seals, Sakura Hana, Generic, Cephrir, Ser Arthur Dayne, geists, KoreanBBQ, pieguyn, Bert

Yeah only one conftown on this whole wagon.

Casso, SH, KBBQ, Geists and Bert.. cmon it was a horrible wagon driven by scum SH and Scum Casso. Finished again by scum Bert/Prophy.

[Titus]

I didn't have much time cuz family is here and Christmas, but I looked through xenologue to see if it's similar. I don't really get how it is. There there was this build up of pressure, in which Sakura thought there was no way around her lynch because Nacho was scum reading her. She claimed and then hammered herself because she wanted everyone to know that she was telling the truth about her claim and her reads. When she hammered herself she gave final reads.

That doesn't really match up to here where she was the 5th vote on her wagon and she included the bit about the *ragequit* and then decided not to claim and say that she was going to troll instead.

I've never seen Sakura!scum so I don't know how her reaction matches up to her scum game and how she responds. And I don't have the time to look it up.

I still think there's something up with Pie, but I'm going to go with Falcon's town case right now.

If there's a move away from Sakura, I'd probably join the Stuff Crust wagon even though I don't have great feelings of that coming back scum to avoid getting Falcon lynched.

But I'd probably move to most people or anyone that I don't have an inkling of a town read on, which is most people because this noise is insane.

Like hell you had no clue she was scumreading you.

[Titus]

Plus she was one of the leading votes on your wagon. It's total bullshit you didn't know that. I generally know who pushes my wagon first and hardest.

That's the thing, Desp has self-preservation. I don't. I go after scum regardless of viability. Scum will have to kill or con me to get me off focusing on them.

[Titus]

As for your "Tammy was a threat" point i'll just reply with a Desp quote.

this is pretty stupid, considering 75% of the player list would benefit from her death if they had rolled scum

Would you believe the words of a dead townie over mine then?

PEd. Exactly i had no clue.

Did you even read the Tammy post I quoted?

Desp's opinion is that 75% of the playerbase would benefit. That's abstract and esoteric. The only players that wouldn't have benefitted were players Tammy was townreading which is pretty much the confirmed town group. You had the MOST to lose by keeping Tammy alive, but scum theoretically benefits if someone dies. You're the only one who really got suspicion disarmed by Tammy's death.

[Titus]

Day 1, Votecount 69

Sakura Hana (10)

-

Tammy, Casso the King of Seals, DOMO, Ser Arthur Dayne, Sakura Hana, geists, Desperado, KoreanBBQ, MC Maraca, Bert

Casso the King of Seals (3)

-

zMuffinMan, goodmorning, Generic

Stuffed Crust (2)

-

Cephrir, pieguyn

F-16_Fighting_Falcon (1)

-

BROseidon

goodmorning (1)

-

Norlkaz

Not Voting (3)

-

MafiaSSK, F-16_Fighting_Falcon, Stuffed Crust

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch! Deadline is on December 26th at 3:45 PM EST or in (expired on 2013-12-26 16:44:27)

Mod Notes

-

Varsoon head of Stuffed Crust V/LA until January 25th. F-16_Fighting_Falcon is V/LA until the 31st. goodmorning is V/LA until the 26th. DOMO is V/LA until the 27th. Generic is V/LA until the 26th.

The first name is Tammy.

Next is the fact the NKA is obvious, again bullshit. Each player has their own targets that would be threatened by. If there is a universal target, you'd almost have to use a strongman as that's where the doctor would universally go.

The deaths, the lynches, it's far too coincidental to point anywhere but you SH.

[Titus]

You had the MOST to lose by keeping Tammy alive, but scum theoretically benefits if someone dies. You're the only one who really got suspicion disarmed by Tammy's death.

Like i care if i got suspicion disarmed or not, If you can't tell i'm still up for being lynched anytime if my town flip makes Casso conftown for the rest of the game. I'll even take that today if you want.

We lynch the confscum today. You tomorrow.

I also have said, your flip doesn't confirm Casso. You shouldn't think your flip confirms Casso.

[Titus]

NO. I said it's less likely. Not that it wasn't possible. You even followed up and I gave reasons why hypothetical Casso scum would abandon a town mislynch.

[Titus]

I agreed with gm's analysis that it's not as likely to be scum Casso town you. That doesn't mean I said it was impossible. You're putting words in my mouth.

[Titus]

SH has overly hinted at her role. I will call her bluff when she gets in lynch range. Hopefully tomorrow. It's anti-town the way she is using her role though if I am right on her hints. Then again, it makes sense if she's scum.

GM, go on. What are you drawing from that?

Well, there are really only three options that would work:
Both Town - Exactly as Casso described it happening.
Both Scum - Casso contrives the wagon so Sakura can flail for towncred.
Casso Town, Sakura Scum - Same as "Both Town," except that Casso was wrong.

Now, as I think Casso is Scum, it's obvious which I think is the likeliest.

(Casso Scum, Sakura Town is being discounted because it would have been a bit too easy for Casso to just lurk out a hammer in that case. Maybe someone would have come in to shout "LOOK AT HER TOWNING THERE" but I sort of doubt it.)

Agreed. I like scum scum bc Casso nor Sakura was strung up after the SSK lynch failed Day 1.

I still think it's possible. Likely, not as much. A) Casso would be associated negatively if you flipped town b) he could be afraid of dying.

I find it more indicative of scum and scum unlessby fluke a shit ton of town agreed to lynch you.

Read these posts together.

[Titus]

You're putting words in my mouth.

We are even then.

No. I can prove what I claim you say. You can't because you twist.

[Titus]

No you haven't because I never did. I grabbed the posts where you say what I think you say.

Two players can push for a lynch SH. A player looks more like scum if they push a mislynch through.

[Titus]

A player looks more like scum if they push a mislynch through.

So why would have this affected Casso and not Tammy?

Tammy would have looked like scum had she demolished your wagon. She didn't Casso did.

You're just flat out wrong on the parallels. In Minus Minus, I was malleable. In Plus Plus, I tunnelled you. What am I doing here? Tunnelling. Gimme a break. If you're going to use my meta, at least have it be a defensible position. The meta point itself is worthless but the fact you are lying about my meta means something.

[Titus]

Except I never really misrepped there. Misrepping doesn't do well for my wincon either way and is usually spotted. As scum, I try to be active but let the town devour itself, which is exactly what you all did. I haven't misrepped there.

If your hypothetical mislynch went through, Tammy would have looked scummy. But the thing is, Casso dissolved it.

[Titus]

1. Really, you think Varsoon sucks? *pat* Put me and Varsoon on the same team in the same game and we will mop the floor with you with anyone and the person you pick. I'm not sure how that would work in a mafia game but meh.
2. Yeah pretty convienent. Anywhere between your two scumreads and including your two scumreads is the place for scum to jump. Pie is obvtown ATM. nullish town.
3. NKA isn't wifom entirely. NKA Occam's Razor says Sakura scum. Tammy wasn't pushing SAD as strongly as Sakura. This is a grasp at a straw to discredit.
4. You don't have an unpopular read in a game this size, you're doing something wrong or scum.
5. Korean, how many times do I have to tell you. The number of people agreeing is not indicative of the strength of the argument. The guts are indicative of the strength of the argument. In the 13th or 14th century, the world thought everything was flat. You retcon well. But I'm not going to just assume everyone else is right when I disagree with the substance and there's nothing "BUT META" to say otherwise.

[Titus]

you looked town

care to explain why?

Here let me help you out
I'm surprised pieguy never brought this up. Now please stop townreading me off a non-existant "towntell"

I could have sworn I did but oh well. regardless this is why I was never entirely convinced by your ATE

can you walk me through your Bert read plz? 6434

Like hell you don't want people reading you as town due to your meta.

Sakura does this all the time

So you're telling me Sakura always wants people to townread her due to her meta and then dies what she said she wanted in the first place?

[Titus]

Pie #167 says that SH will never argue that a cheap tactic but doesn't really stop others from doing it, kinda a laissez faire attitude. How does your reading jive with 3179 that Sakura isn't seeking to be townread due to meta? [/confused]

[Titus]

RC, the agreement was to use the day to investigate and run down leads until everything was exhausted.

Pie, I'm not sure what you're saying but I'll try to understand during the night phase.

KBBQ,

1. I am not whiteknighting Varsoon. I feel he is one of the best. I win very frequently when on his team.
2. I can surely ask you for your opinion and bash you when it's scummy.
3. Occam's Razor says that people all die who accuse SH of being scum. SH is scum.
4. It's convenient.
5. We'll just disagree.

I'm sick of the circles.

[Titus]

Generic, I asked you a question in 6510 that got spammed out. I feel like you are going to scumread me solely for Cephir no matter what I do. Suppose for a moment I am town and that I would vig crumb in the same manner that Korean did (note no signed posts so it gives deniability), what would you expect me to do? Roll over and be disingenious about my read?

[Titus]

Sorry I didn't put in the form of a question. It wasn't a question in that sense but I did want a response. I wasn't scumreading you for it anyway since I figured it was drowned out.

A lot of your posting is about what Ceph did. I cannot get into his head and determine what he was thinking. Obviously, it was poor form to interrupt you as prior slots are relevant, but I feel you have said little regarding the VCA I put up on days 1 and 2 and what if anything that might have to do with my alignment.

Lastly, Kbbq has been griping about my view was he was softclaiming vig. I disagree and a couple people say no. I don't feel there reasons as persuasive. What am I supposed to do? Play dead on that point?

[Titus]

I agree with Generic. Where is the SAD case? Generic, I will call your bluff and shock Sakura to make sure once and for all she is scum or whether I was caught in a tunnel.

VOTE: Prophylaxis


You promised some shiny content. Where is it? Your votes suck. Bert sucked. You vanished.

[Titus]

SAD is halfway to lynch and I've yet to see the case.

Look who is pushing it. Casso.

Generic, I push scum until they crap. I wasn't going to keep talking about it but I won't be bullied into townreading someone.

[Titus]

I will look at SAD again momentarily.

Generic, I opened with the KBBQ attack. To say elsewise is disingenuous. I respond wih meta after attacked by it.

[Titus]

There's also a matter of his Bert tunneling in general; it's shallow as hell and it essentially involves SAD quoting a Bert post, responding with "this is so scummy, make it die" and then going back to the shadows of scumfuckery. It's extremely similar to the Shadoweh-Bert tunneling which attacks the hell out of him because he's easy to attack, complain about how he's not getting lynched fast enough, proceed to do nothing else.

That enough case for you, Generic/Titus?

No. If it was this shallow, you'd quote it and show that. A man of few words is not shallow. SAD may be scum but this is bad.

[Titus]

btw my case on SAD is p much his BS defense of SSK. he claimed he didn't want a SSK lynch bc "lack of information", but then other people got lynched and he completely forgot all about getting information from lynches. when pressured, he basically just started flip flopping and making shit up to cover up his stance on SSK. in 4300 he misreps "information" as entirely consisting of the wagon from the SC lynch, when there's way more information to be gained. he KNOWS this, as indicated by 4303:

Now I can easily speculate why these two are excempt from suspicion but I want SADs reasons and his thoughts on their connection to the SC wagon.

Please abort any thought of analyzing the SC wagon THAT GOT HIM LYNCHED and instead look for who was pushing him earlier in the day (which I want to do when I have a bit of time).

not to mention he never actually did this. conclusion: he was just making shit up to cover up his BS defense. it was bad enough before SSK was confscum and SSK's scumflip reaffirms that his defense was BS (especially the fact he flipped encryptor). he also accused me of being scum for a "generic OMGUS" by pushing back on people who accused me, but then did the same thing himself in 4114. his reads on me (null -> town -> scum -> town) and zmuffin make no sense and he still hasn't explained either of them. also there's the whole associatives with zmuffin although that's predicated on zmuffin-scum

I agree with zmuffin that the wagon that got sc lynched has little info. Yet, the fact he did not do said analysis (assuming without searching) that would be scummy as you should be providing info promised.

It is the same thing part of my issues with Prophy are for.

[Titus]

That's probably her angle if scum. I would be pretty fucking impressed if she could take my advice to heart that quickly, though.

if she's scum it'd make sense considering she didn't have much time to adjust her scumgame. she tried to replicate her town meta but since she didn't have any time to entirely change her play the way she was so stubborn about weird things came across as forced. do you disagree?

But it's not forced. I am just saying my reads don't change bc I don't fall into absurdity of yhe majority fallacy. I am not scumreading all who defend him or the absurd.

[Titus]

I agree with zmuffin that the wagon that got sc lynched has little info. Yet, the fact he did not do said analysis (assuming without searching) that would be scummy as you should be providing info promised.

wait, how much of the thread have you read? for someone who hasn't read the thread this is a really specific point to agree about

either that or you took it from your former daychat

anyway the point is that he blatantly made up a stance and then flip flopped when pressured about it. the about of information you can actually get from the wagon is irrelevant

I have no opinion on that. Deadline actions have little info. Hence why I agree there's less info on the wagon that went through and that looking to earlier versions is helpful.

The rest, I would have to review. I wanted to try andread from a neutral perspective, not one of tunnels and conclusions.

[Titus]

That's probably her angle if scum. I would be pretty fucking impressed if she could take my advice to heart that quickly, though.

if she's scum it'd make sense considering she didn't have much time to adjust her scumgame. she tried to replicate her town meta but since she didn't have any time to entirely change her play the way she was so stubborn about weird things came across as forced. do you disagree?

I do because it doesn't feel forced to me. She usually gets stuck on weird things as either alignment, but the soft claiming vig to vanilla theory is beyond insane and yet somehow still in the range of Titus-strange. It could probably be faked, fair, but I don't think the added layers of ridiculousness make it scummy because Titus occasionally does have ridiculous theories such as this one.

Scum set up fakeclaims all the time. There's nothing invalid about the theory. Most don't think it is sound.

Fact: Two vigs is remote.
Fact: A vig is dead.
Conclusion: Anyone else softclaiming vig is scum, laying a fake claim.


No one else happens to think thay's what he was doing but me.

[Titus]

btw my case on SAD is p much his BS defense of SSK. he claimed he didn't want a SSK lynch bc "lack of information", but then other people got lynched and he completely forgot all about getting information from lynches. when pressured, he basically just started flip flopping and making shit up to cover up his stance on SSK. in 4300 he misreps "information" as entirely consisting of the wagon from the SC lynch, when there's way more information to be gained. he KNOWS this, as indicated by 4303:

Now I can easily speculate why these two are excempt from suspicion but I want SADs reasons and his thoughts on their connection to the SC wagon.

Please abort any thought of analyzing the SC wagon THAT GOT HIM LYNCHED and instead look for who was pushing him earlier in the day (which I want to do when I have a bit of time).

not to mention he never actually did this. conclusion: he was just making shit up to cover up his BS defense. it was bad enough before SSK was confscum and SSK's scumflip reaffirms that his defense was BS (especially the fact he flipped encryptor). he also accused me of being scum for a "generic OMGUS" by pushing back on people who accused me, but then did the same thing himself in 4114. his reads on me (null -> town -> scum -> town) and zmuffin make no sense and he still hasn't explained either of them. also there's the whole associatives with zmuffin although that's predicated on zmuffin-scum

I agree with zmuffin that the wagon that got sc lynched has little info. Yet, the fact he did not do said analysis (assuming without searching) that would be scummy as you should be providing info promised.

It is the same thing part of my issues with Prophy are for.

Remind me of your issues with Prophy. Why did you drop the BBQ push?

Carryover from Bert (bah hammers+votes+bad vca), plus lack of promised content = Prophy.

I dropped BBQ to a null bc his vca was good. I just won't townread him bc the majorityvus.

[Titus]

That's probably her angle if scum. I would be pretty fucking impressed if she could take my advice to heart that quickly, though.

if she's scum it'd make sense considering she didn't have much time to adjust her scumgame. she tried to replicate her town meta but since she didn't have any time to entirely change her play the way she was so stubborn about weird things came across as forced. do you disagree?

I do because it doesn't feel forced to me. She usually gets stuck on weird things as either alignment, but the soft claiming vig to vanilla theory is beyond insane and yet somehow still in the range of Titus-strange. It could probably be faked, fair, but I don't think the added layers of ridiculousness make it scummy because Titus occasionally does have ridiculous theories such as this one.

Scum set up fakeclaims all the time. There's nothing invalid about the theory. Most don't think it is sound.

Fact: Two vigs is remote.
Fact: A vig is dead.
Conclusion: Anyone else softclaiming vig is scum, laying a fake claim.


No one else happens to think thay's what he was doing but me.

That's true. I happen to think that scum wouldn't attempt fake claiming vig when the real vig was lynched Day 1 and there have been no extra kills since, but maybe I'm just crazy as hell.

The softclaim was BEFORE SC flipped.


Shutting up on that poin unless someone asks me about that.

[Titus]

First blush vca on day 1. This does not include day 2.

Major wagons existed on SSK, BBQ, Sakura and F16.

SSK vote parking on BBQ suggests he isn't scum but notably SSK didn't vote BBQ when he could actually be lynched.

F16 stands out because he was a major wagon and his voters were people who I have little problems with.
Sakura's wagon is pretty much the same. Sakura self-voted. Casso really demolished the Sakura wagon with his talk to me unvote. Really, at L minus 1, Sakurahas every incentive she needs to talk to claim.
Sakura vote shifted a lot but was rarely on the SSK wagon, if ever.

The demolition of the SH wagon forced the group to deadline mode. SSK withholds his PR claim long enough to give the group the ability to mislynch. Notably, SH is skipped along with Casso. Bert jumps onto the SC wagon when he could have sheeped the SH wagon.

Right now, VCA without reasons suggests Sakura, SSK scum, weak read on F16. Yet an even weaker one on Prophy. Casso is also not sitting right now, particularly for 3711 through 3715. SSK goes from null to scum very fast.

Korean, I say who the scum are, not who I hope buys it. Either I am right or I am wrong. All the SSK votes do is suggest you are not scum. Vig softclaim strongly suggests you are scum. Take your null and b happy.

Yeah your wagon might have reached 8. The whole point is the scum don't vote each other when they think it can go through. Don't try to force me to townead you. It won't work.

Casso, I don't know why Nero would crumb that. I don't know his scum team, their dynamics, etc. I look at the what, then answer the why.

There are the posts you asked for.

[Titus]

zMuffin, can you join me on Prophy then? Basically, scum have infiltrated the townreads of the masons. I'm damn near sure of it. If we don't band together and show that we've got some kickass contributions, the scum will con the masons into lynching us one by one.

So let's lynch Prophy scum, force the popular crowd who had Prophy as a scum to bus and get ourselves a scumlynch?

[Titus]

zMuffin, can you join me on Prophy then? Basically, scum have infiltrated the townreads of the masons. I'm damn near sure of it. If we don't band together and show that we've got some kickass contributions, the scum will con the masons into lynching us one by one.

So let's lynch Prophy scum, force the popular crowd who had Prophy as a scum to bus and get ourselves a scumlynch?

if scum is in my top group, who are they? (other than KBBQ?) because, I'm the one who is in control of our group atm.

Sakura and Casso (which I believe you have said he was a townread although you didn't say so in that post).

I got issues with Geists play but he's "cleared". I still wouldn't put it past him to be a mason doc.

[Titus]

zMuffin, can you join me on Prophy then?

Basically, scum have infiltrated the townreads of the masons.

I'm damn near sure of it. If we don't band together and show that we've got some kickass contributions, the scum will con the masons into lynching us one by one.

So let's lynch Prophy scum, force the popular crowd who had Prophy as a scum to bus and get ourselves a scumlynch?

Name names.

zMuffin, can you join me on Prophy then? Basically, scum have infiltrated the townreads of the masons. I'm damn near sure of it. If we don't band together and show that we've got some kickass contributions, the scum will con the masons into lynching us one by one.

So let's lynch Prophy scum, force the popular crowd who had Prophy as a scum to bus and get ourselves a scumlynch?

if scum is in my top group, who are they? (other than KBBQ?) because, I'm the one who is in control of our group atm.

Sakura and Casso (which I believe you have said he was a townread although you didn't say so in that post).

I got issues with Geists play but he's "cleared". I still wouldn't put it past him to be a mason doc.

Done.

Funny how Prophy comes on and just picks the one VC where Cephir looks bad rather than doing the VCA he promised.

[Titus]

Bullshit. VCA doesn't require thread reading. It's not a strawman to highlight how awfully convienently that is timed.

[Titus]

VOTE: Generic

I can sheep that.

Pie, you really think Generic and I can be scumbuddies with the way he's attacking me? You've been pretty obviously town but for your read on me but damn man.

[Titus]

Pie, I can fake how Generic posts? Plus, that's not a tell. It's also not a meta argument. It's an argument saying sane and rational scum don't bus there. They definitely don't do it in that manner.

[Titus]

There's no way mafia would have attempted to kill Generic last night, and I jailed him for a no kill so let's lynch him now.

I'm having some hella serious thoughts about boys who cry wolf.

Shit like this makes NO sense, which is why I think you could be scum.

Both Prophy and Geists back off from this. If RC is lying, we lynch him. It makes sense.

[Titus]

Pie, I'm saying Generic isn't going to push me long and hard consistently like he is. It's not a specific post. Rather, Generic scum needs a mislynch. SAD/Prophy are the major wagons. He throws me out to F-16 who votes and he gets on. Counterwagon.

[Titus]

You sneaky bastard RC.

I'm the JK. Night 1 I targeted mcmaraca as I knew it wouldn't stop them doing anything and after a masons reveal I assumed they would be targeted. Night 2 I jailed SSK but that seemed to stop nothing.

Last night I jailed Titus. I wasn't going to out myself because I hoped I had stayed hidden, but if they have a rolecop that might be why they are gambiting here. I for know why cowbells would be the one to screw me over as opposed to Titus.

My vote stands which will hopefully prove in telling the truth, but I will happily lynch RC too.

Yeah, this is bullshit. Scum would NEVER kill me as I'm discrediting. You would have opened with a vote on me, rather than encouraging F-16 to go first. You pushed me in response to someone else.

@geists - Everyone gets their day in court. s can be scum.

[Titus]

though if Gen is scum then that geist attack could be some early distancing...hrmmm...

Well at least you're seeing the paranoia.


@geists- fine. You want me to do that. Be the prosecutor. I'll be the judge.

[Titus]

though if Gen is scum then that geist attack could be some early distancing...hrmmm...

Well at least you're seeing the paranoia.


@geists- fine. You want me to do that. Be the prosecutor. I'll be the judge.

We should prob lynch them if Gen flips scum. Genscum makes RCBro our jk. Part of me is like "she would do something that dumb" but she's smart enough as town to not lead a lynch on town so this looks fake.

Try beer 1.5.


Generic, how about being mislynched? I'm honored you picked me though. You're scared of me enough to do that shit.

[Titus]

You know who are scum when I flip, just remember that.

Pedit:
Making it 1v1 solves nothing KBBQ. I see no point, especially with the confbias against me which has most of you ignoring me.
But I prove I'm telling the truth with the Titus flip snd I'm going for RC the next day with everything.

No. You're going for the "easier" option rather than scum. Out of all the people, she happens to pick the one jailkeeper, who isn't actually crumbing his check. He doesn't vote me on open. You don't even say, gee we're lynching Titus today. You encourage F-16 to do your work.

-------------

Because I am catching the scum, but you can't shoot me because that will tell everyone else that. So you go for my mislynch instead. Besides, you got too many conftowns and need a mislynch so why not Titus who actually doesn't bow to peer pressure.

My being lynched loses the town a mislynch. It also doesn't help resolve the issue of who is the real jailkeeper. So yeah, I have an issue with being mislynched. Duh! Who wouldn't?



You're not the JK Generic.

[Titus]

Scared of you? Why?

Again what have you got to lose being lynched if you are town Titus?

A better question is what have you got to lose by being lynched? I mean, sure we lose a PR if you are town, but that is two scum in the bag (RC/Titus) for the price of losing a PR. That is a risk I am willing to take.

but Titus not calling you out for this when she called me out last game (where she was town) makes me go

Which head what game?

I am calling Generic out. *headscratch*

[Titus]

vote Prophy

Yesterday told us a lot. First, scum had gotten the trust of the masons. GM would up on me, but he might have moved cuz jailor. MM knew of the jailor claim and still voted the jailor. Geists didn't want to vote the scums. I am paranoid that there's scum in the clears.

Sakura, you believe that Generic would hand the group another scum to save himself as a goon? That's pretty much what you'd have to believe at that point. The truth is Generic was trying to get one more mislynch off before he died. He has been encouraging a wagon on me for days now.

[Titus]

Prophy, are you trying to have me tunnel you? Naked voting me is REAL effective at doing that.

You should know I am not scum better than anyone. You fail to provide content that you said you'd do. Cherrypicking a vote is not a VCA. You have not given a lot of thoughts since your initial entry.

Meanwhile, I have pursued lines of inquiry, made bold claims, and generally scumhunted. People may not like my methods or conclusions but there's little question as to whether I provide what I promise.

Why should we believe you are town?

[Titus]

Poor Sakie doesn't wanna bus. She doesn't say what interactions. She's basically voting me cuz she doesn't like what I'm saying.

Generic was playing for one more mislynch before he died.

Suppose that I am scum (for sake of argument but I am not), Generic then succeeds in getting me lynched.
Generic then doesn't die immediately. Cowbells cannot die because of the fact it will out Generic as lying.

Scum likely have 1-2 more players. SSK, Generic, Titus, ???, ???. I and SSK are dead. The real jailkeeper can be free to move about, blocking kills and announcing who was jailkept.

Scum are also in a position where they must kill quickly. Yet, Generic cannot be sent for the kill due to the high likelihood of him being jailkept.

The likelihood of RC stopping a kill increases more and more as there are fewer people to pick from.



It's facially implausible Generic would leave his scumteam in that position. Move on Sakura and scumhunt.

[Titus]

That wasn't the context. You accused me of being fake with the paranoia. I was assuming that was due to the speech differences. I said I was a little tipsy. Hence the speech difference from my earlier posting. I've been paranoid of geists since the start of coming in.

[Titus]

Poor Sakie doesn't wanna bus.

Move on Sakura and scumhunt.

So am I scum or scumhunting.
Either way, as I said before I wouldn't put it past Gen to bus like that so at least you stay alive.

No. It says you are scum or NOT scumhunting.

In the abstract, yeah. It's possible Gen did that. Look at the board though. They'd have to keep RC alive to keep Gen alive and RC alive bones the scumteam. The only possible move to make was to try and get a mislynch off. Pushing for RC was much less likely to be successful than pushing for me.

[Titus]

F-16 isn't sure Generic is town.

[Titus]

Hey GIF, lets PL Titus today.

Under what "policy"?

You're scum is not an acceptable policy.

[Titus]

**You're scum means Korean BBQ is scum.

[Titus]

No. I want you to answer my question. You want me poilcied, which implies I am town. Under what policy do you want me lynched?

It should be pretty damn transparent that I'm town at this point.

If forcing you to answer my questions means a 1 v 1, I am all for it. You act like a scumfuck but somehow wound up on the right wagon. Why would you lynch Generic when he's pushing me as scum if you're so confident I am scum?

Also, I don't have to highlight every player to say Prophy/me scum together is bullshit.

[Titus]

Hey GIF, lets PL Titus today.

Under what "policy"?

Under the policy of you might be scum and even if you are somehow town I couldn't careless as your play has been rather terrible.

Now, that's bullshit. You were starting to see the possibility of gesits being scum, a possibility that I have pushed for. Yet, I'm playing terribly.

In the rare event I am reading the game totally wrong, my play hasn't been terrible. Your PL argument is nothing more than I don't agree with Titus so she has to die. That's freaking scummy dude.

[Titus]

KBBQ, quit dodging. What about my play is terrible?

Prophy, nice made up stats. Day 1 has a high proportion of town, so town would have to cluster at somepoint. That's why VCA is a starting point but not an endall be all. If it was, the group would lynch Casso and Sakura no questions asked.

[Titus]

Nice projection Prophy. I never said that vca isn't a vital tool. In fact, I am still annoyed with you for just cherrypicking one point. That's not vca. I am not strawmanning. Defending is not making a strawman. You are strawmanning my responses.

KBBQ, you may not agree with my analysis but being wrong doesn't mean scummy and you know it. You thought geists being scum was also ridculous.

[Titus]

Cephrir, my prior slot holder, pushes for the confscum and that makes me suspicious F16? Are you high or drunk?

I like the coaching theory even with daytalk. Scum have to interact with each other at some point. Helping scumbuddies diffuse suspicions is good. Also the presence of daytalk is part of the reason I cannot clear KBBQ.

GM, Generic self-hammered before we'll ever know if that was true.

Piegyn, your townblock needs serious work if Bert was in it prior to Prophy replacing in. His posting has sucked compared to his town games. Bert's behavior sucked.

[Titus]

Except, I already have demonstrated being paranoid of you F-16. I don't have to say it in every post.

As for the high or drunk, your case is illogical. That says nothing about your alignment at all. Town can be dumb. Or you could be scum. Either way, I expect you to be smarter.

As for your comment about me expecting you to read me right, a) I said I had a few issues with your meta logic and b) you know by now I think meta is crap but what people say about meta is important. Like now, you are promoting yourself as the Titus expert, which makes it easier to push through a mislynch on me.

[Titus]

Will read and respond tomorrow/the day after tomorrow. Major work project.

[Titus]

Got a little time during lunch. Replying now.

Prophy, "nice" in that context was used similar to nice try.

F16, you and I both know that disagreement does not mean the player is playing illogically. My logic is valid, and appears sound to me. I have said that KBBQ's manner is the same way I would crumb vig, although I may not have mentioned the game. See Finagling Hills, Mini. I was vig and crumbed in the same manner.

Geists, I am aggessive in every game but I do not level personal insults often as either alignment as I believe it to be poor form. See Bowser's theme game for what I believe is similiar behavior.

Again, I do believe meta is crap but if you go down that rabbit hole I am capable of defending myself as others value that source.

Also, none of you respond to my claim of what happens if Generic is succesful of his "bus" (assuming the falsehood I am scum for sake of argument).

If anyone says I am illogical, they need to show what about my actions lacks logic. My behavior can easily be tracked to a series of suppositions which I believe to be true. Anyone who persists in slandering me basically is helping the scum.

[Titus]

It does not follow that a vig softclaimer is scum if an actual vig is found; random people fakeclaim or softclaim vig all the time.

TBF, this isn't even the argument. Titus is arguing that I softclaimed vig and I denied that and my denial is a scumclaim since I 100% vig softclaimed and her "evidence" is that she softclaimed vig that way which totes ignores that Titus=//=Nero.

Actually KBBQ, Norlkaz has the argument right.


No one fakeclaims/fakecrumbs vig who is in their right mind. The real vig will kill them almost certainly. Your denial is to be expected. No one is going to say their actions were a softclaim of the dead vig. That's literally insane and not intelligent for either alignment. The evidence to me is pretty damning that your actions were a claim because I'd do it in the same manner. Does that mean I expect everyone to agree with me? No. However, I do expect people to understand that it is rational for me to believe his behavior was a softclaim.

Will both of you respond to my analysis that Generic "bussing" me is impossible given the fact it would utterly bone the scumteam if successful?

[Titus]

Sakura, if you believe I am scum with Prophy, call my "bluff" and help me "bus".

That being said, there is no logical way Generic and I are scum together. If Generic got his lynch through and I was scum it would bone his team. Respond to that or quit pushing me as scum.

[Titus]

Generic would have a plan if his "bus" worked. If he actually gets me lynched, he loses. It's one thing to say wifom. It is quite another to leave his team with no out.

Generic plus 1 mafia alive (best for them that is plausible).
You've then got four heavy likely town that are not likely to be lynched. (masons, geists, cowbell)
That leaves 8 plausible lynch targets.

Generic's team cannot kill Cowbell, bc if they do Generic is lynched.
The scumteam need to get kills. They have to kill right damn near everynight to make it near lylo.

Duck duck goose is a setup Sak. Also, tbh implies you have not been honest. What game are you referencing?

[Titus]

Does anyone wanna do anything other than sit here and fiddle our thumbs the whole day phase?

Yeah, lynch Proph scum.

[Titus]

MM, Pie is town. After me, lynch Prophy. He is obvscum.

[Titus]

Sakura/Prophy Bus each other already! Calling each other unbaised while scumreading each other. Confbiasing me while putting together meta vcas.

Prophy, you and I both know that was a cherrypick.

[Titus]

Sakura/Prophy Bus each other already! Calling each other unbaised while scumreading each other. Confbiasing me while putting together meta vcas.

Prophy, you and I both know that was a cherrypick.

[Titus]

I hate doing this, but if you are going to insist I am scum, lynch me today.

If one of the masons/geists doesn't die, consider scum there. Outed masons and a semi-conftown should not be alive Day 6 or 7.
One of Prophy/Sakura is almost certainly scum. Casso needs examining. So do F16 and KBBQ.
PIE and SAD are town.

[Titus]

That wasn't a trap. I do tend to be clearer as scum. That's because I already know the answer. However, slips in logic are more likely to come from scum me. You may disagree with my logic as town, but it will be valid. Scum logic will be invalid but sound really good.

My points were not valid on Fu in that game, but I didn't push as hard because I knew it wouldn't stand to scrutiny and let the group carry the weight. In order to push a mislynch as scum hard, someone has to do something really scummy.

Saying one of you is almost certainly scum =/= you aren't scum together. There's just no way the both of you have town PMs.

[Titus]

A policy scumread really? That's what you've got. Then fucking lynch me. Scum won't shoot me with the policy lynch for winning as scum. You'll then lynch me in lylo and we lose. So just lynch me now and get it over with even though it's impossible for me to be scum.

[Titus]

Goddamit.

We are lynching me or Prophy today. Period.

[Titus]

If you are hellbent on being stupid, lynch me today. I cannot live in lylo due to people discrediting me. SAD is a horrible lynch. Prophy and Sakura are the onlycandidates I will tolerate. I want a scum lynch if I have to die trying, so be it. Lynch me or leave me be.

[Titus]

If you are hellbent on being stupid, lynch me today. I cannot live in lylo due to people discrediting me. SAD is a horrible lynch. Prophy and Sakura are the onlycandidates I will tolerate. I want a scum lynch if I have to die trying, so be it. Lynch me or leave me be.

Titus, engage with me.

Respond to my large-ish post where I dissected one of your posts. Repeating the same things over and over again is mind-numbing.

There was no content in that post about this game. Plenty about other meta games, which I don't give two shits about and then you just discrediting me, and you expect me to deign that with a response.

Yeah, it's mind numbing. I'll keep repeating the same damn things in new ways until people actually process the right answer.

[Titus]

If I am the lynch, I promise to self-hammer when the group wants. Put me and Prophy or Sakura.

I am sick of proving my innocence to a town that will not listen after my other suppositions were proven right, such as scum conning the masons.

Piegyn is town. Sakura needs to be high.

Got a problem with that mob doc?

[Titus]

I'll make one for the record

Prophy
Sakura
Casso (if I am wrong about Sakura)
KBBQ
Norl
F16
Geists
Casso (if right about Sakura)
The masons (if neither are dead by this point they are scum)
zmuffin
SAD
Piegyn
The masons (if one dies in the next few nights)

[Titus]

I have no problem with the concept of proving my alignment. When I do it over and over again and get ignored, it is frustrating as all get out. I also wanted to point out the hypocrisy. Sakura's ate proved she was town, but mine did not. That suggest Sakura has got help pushing the Sakura town bc she AtEd angle. Frankly, it is fakable and she's rambling on about her own tells.

I have looked for scum. Piegyn was cleared by his Casso push. Scum did everything they could to create a second wagon that would keep Generic and his scumbuddies alive. SAD had the most stellar VCA I believe..

So if town has to die, it will be me.


@geists, is that to me?

[Titus]

Amazing that flip when you say I was the only viable mislynch candidate for Generic. Hmm...

[Titus]

Also Prophy cannot be both town and scum. That list is faked.

[Titus]

Sakura, nothing about my VCA was biased. It didn't generate the result you wanted, but that didn't make it biased. I should redo the day 1 vca, knowing Generic was scum.

[Titus]

Pie, please enumerate what SAD allegedly misrepped you on.

[Titus]

Paranoia note: For masons, gm and MM don't agree on much.

[Titus]

I have been in a hydra. I don't expect mindmeld but they hardly seem to be communicating at all. There are more effective strategies, double voting null/scumreads to get faster pressure and reactions.

Hydra dissonance tends to trigger a scumread because that should be sorted out for the most part.

This is one of my hydras.

[Titus]

I initially scumread Cain and Thor talked me out of it.

We have a flipped encryptor and it feels odd that neither of you are talking about major events.

[Titus]

Actually, even hydrae technically have no obligation to agree on anything.
Also, why aren't you scumreading Casso for their dissonance?

I do have a bad feeling about Casso.

Hydrae/masons have no obligation to agree, no. Yet, you'd expect that over time or some evidence over a joint strategy. I don't see that. Nacho and Thor, for the most part don't seem to be quarrelling in thread.

Can someone devise a way to test if GM and MM have daychat? If so, that can put any doubts about them to rest.

VLA Thursday thru Saturday, family thing

[Titus]

If we had a neighborizer that worked during the day, that would be easy. They rarely do though.

[Titus]

SAD your idea works if we had a handwriting sample to compare it to as handwriting doesn't change that much.

[Titus]

Push your top scumread then.

@SAD, that's probably legal as long as no cryptography is involved. That's where the former handwritten notes tell comes in.

[Titus]

My biggest paranoia is why the hell didn't you die despite being out so early?

[Titus]

@Prophy, if you believe interactions will show who the scum are, why are you fine with voting me? If lower interactions = scum then higher interactions = town. Also what separated higher interactions with lower interactions?

Why the hell did you say I am coasting when I am vla? Try to force a mislynch much?

[Titus]

That last question should be what separates active and passive interactions?

[Titus]

Why is the Prophy wagon of win getting no votes? Three town players are on it.

Mod: You have Piegyn voting twice

~Fixed. Sorry. (Empire)

Will catch up later today/tomorrow.