NY 169: The EPIC XD Mafia Game of Greatness (Game Over)

[Cephrir]

On that note, I need to go save Christmas. Sorta.

[Empire]

Day 1, Votecount 71

MafiaSSK (7)

-

Casso the King of Seals, Sakura Hana, KoreanBBQ, Bert, MC Maraca, Ser Arthur Dayne, pieguyn

Sakura Hana (3)

-

Tammy, DOMO, Desperado

Casso the King of Seals (3)

-

zMuffinMan, goodmorning, Generic

Stuffed Crust (1)

-

Cephrir

F-16_Fighting_Falcon (1)

-

BROseidon

goodmorning (1)

-

Norlkaz

Not Voting (4)

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MafiaSSK, F-16_Fighting_Falcon, Stuffed Crust, geists

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch! Deadline is on December 26th at 3:45 PM EST or in (expired on 2013-12-26 16:44:27)

Mod Notes

-

Varsoon head of Stuffed Crust V/LA until January 25th. F-16_Fighting_Falcon is V/LA until the 31st. goodmorning is V/LA until the 26th. DOMO is V/LA until the 27th. Generic is V/LA until the 26th.

MOD NOTE: Merry Christmas everyone!

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

You're reminding me of Micro 189 where you just tunneled a scumread near deadline as scum and were vague about your other opinions's strengths

You looked in that game too much at the non-broader picture

DOMO, Muffin, Norklaz, SSK.
You'll also notice that the situations between this and chosen are pretty fucking dramatic. Here, I'm saving the hell out of two players who are a threat to me and trying to kynch someone with a damn good chance of being scum. There, I tunneled on players and didn't comment in anyone else in order to avoid having to comment on NS the scummy as fuck mentee.

You also saved Equinox in Yabbaguy's C9++ game (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... =applejack) which I reviewed a while back. As it happens, you were scum, and your buddy McStab had a huge fight with Equinox. While he seemed to be losing initially, he bounced back, convinced a few people and turned the wagon on her. The town was very divided with Llamafluff and a few others supporting Equinox strongly while Inte and Bitmap staunchly supported McStab. The town was very divided and tensions were running high. At that point, you swooped in to save Equinox by pushing a bipartisan lynch on Defender (a lurker) and both camps were able to settle on a lynch. There were plenty of scum benefits there (you buddied with Equinox - who would be a threat to you, you got attention away from McStab without even looking like it, you were able to push a lynch approved by the major town players like Llamafluff). Looking at this situation, I see so many parallels. You come in to derail lynches on both Stuffed and me, you push a lynch on a lurkish Sakura, you try to get both Stuffed and I on your side while not doing anything controversial that might set alarm bells off for Tammy/ffery. I like that you eventually backtracked on Sakura though and I am reconsidering based on that. You never actually backtracked on defender in that game.

---

I am feeling slightly better about Casso though so they are back in my to be sorted pile. Nacho can be obvtown when he leads multiple scum lynches.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

With this being very likely town you mara I want to listen to you on these reads... I just am seeing what's in front of me and f16 has only started to look a bit dodgy while under pressure, which I have seen dies hand from him as town in Big brother (and was exploited by me when I discovered this). Meanwhile casso as an entity trouble me, even though I can see the argument you give for the nacho posts.

My vote is wasted where it is for today.

unvote

Will give it some thought. Casso still looks the best option of the three main wagons but mara seems confident on the read.

nteresting how you sat on wanting to call me scum all game and in your blind panic jump on absolutely nothing f16.

Please show where I'm posturing for voting you. I see me actually defending you with a strong example from big brother hat this awful posting now shows you are town and then speculate with mara over NACHO whom I believe she hydras with.

Anymore bullshit you have you want to throw, cos this is the only time in all my posting you have tried to pin scum on me, and it's a total misrep.

P.s. F16, you are on my radar after that shot you pulled on me, everything else about your play was town f16 from big brother but the misrep just to pin a scum read on me is a low blow and not town play at all.

Okay, wow. Epic fail on my part. For whatever reason I read and interpreted your post as you saying that you think I am town but that Mara seemed confident in her read on me implying that you would eventually sheep Mara's read. I only saw on a re-read that you were talking about Casso.

With that said, I am interested by your reaction, Generic. Why do you automatically assume that I am scum misrepping you as opposed to town misinterpreting what you were saying? After all, you did the same with Pieguyn and you know that town can do it accidentally as well. What is the scum motivation to attack you out of the blue based on a fabricated misrep that could easily be pointed out to be wrong?

[Tammy]

So who's good enough to analyze mafiassk's whopping 34 posts for scum-relationship tells if he flips scum?

Who cares?

[Tammy]

I guess SC isn't as strong of a read as he once was based on relative towniness levels of others, but I still think they are town.

Some people with solid scumgames look town, but not town enough.

Make us more comfortable???

"Tammy is town but not town enough" ---> Tammy ended up scum after you said this in Chosen

SC doesn't look very town at all compared to the other people exerting much more effort into this game. That, and the lurking.

Just ftr Tammy has also looked town but not town enough and

has actually been town

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Has this game beat xenoblade yet for d1 content?

I'm not feeling so great about an F-16 lynch.

I was thinking of defaulting back to varsoon but that wagon looks filthy.

What made you change your mind? You initially joined my wagon based on Mara's case looking convincing. I find it problematic because the case itself really wasn't any good. I'm not just saying it because the conclusion is wrong or that it was against me (I've seen cases on town look very convincing). Mara's case essentially boiled down to how I was interacting with her slot and scumreading them. I pointed out why it was inaccurate in my graph which you decided to merely laugh at as you pushed the wagon. After the wagon on me got derailed, you move your vote as well saying you don't feel good about my lynch. I don't care that you frequently change your mind. I do find it scummy that your change of mind corelates with the momentum of a wagon very strongly. I want specifics in why you felt so good about my lynch earlier and now you don't. What pieces of evidence convinced you to change your read and how did it progress upward or downward as you read through the thread.

[Tammy]

R u kidding me
We don't need associate tells to hunt scum

Okay feel free to go hunt by magic but I'd MUCH prefer a wagon that actually yields info.

When did you become a big ol information lynch person? I'm pretty sure I remember that once when I was scum and lurked and trolled, you declared that were going to travel to everyone's houses and type my name in to ensure my lynch when there was literally no information to be gained from my lynch because i didn't do anything.

I mean I get it if you're town reading SSK, but other than that when did you do big associative tells for scum hunting?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

F-16, I think we need to give him more time. I'm happy with mara, and believe she is sincere in her read on F-16, but F-16 seems like another strong asset when town and would be as much a fistpump mislynch for scum as nacho/thor, so there's caution.

If this is your reason, it would be just as applicable when you initially sheeped Mara and laughed at my graph, would it not? What changed?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Sakura, I feel rejected. You don't ask a guy out and then forget all about it in the middle of our date! Anyways, you haven't gotten back to me on what about my play bugged you that was original and not addressed before.

Also, I know you sometimes tend to self-vote or ask for your lynch as both town and scum. Can you provide me with links to games in which you did this? As many of each would do. 5-6 of each would be a pretty good sample.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

@ 3598: Mara, I haven't worked with you because you seemed very unapproachable. You barely engaged me and simply re-posted your case for the lurkers (which you didn't update after my responses). So, I reacted instinctively by trying to work with others as opposed to you. If you do want to work with me or actually try to sort me, I am more than happy to engage you so we can stop this pointless distraction and lynch scum. The "

but that is not what you said before

" arguments aren't things I can address for you because the statements themselves are accurate. But it isn't scummy to change my viewpoint.

---

wtf is up with the activity this game and why are we wagoning Sak?

Because apparently "she's scum" is a good reason to lynch someone.

If you flip town I'll be all over it like white on rice.

Are you townreading Sakura and why?

---

I'm thinking she's town. We are at a point of the day where Sakura pulled something equivalent to the blacklist tell, which is strictly a no lynching business.

What is a blacklist tell and how did Sakura do it? Is it related to the quitting?

Or maybe one of DOMO/SAD? That group looks more likely to have scum in it than it did before.

I agree. I could go with BRO as well. MafiaSSK would be the fourth choice.

---

Nacho's explanation for why I am town looks very town, particularly the part about making sure Mara understands it. His dismantling of Sakura wagon feels town as well - I agree with 3684 about the Nacho-read.

[Casso the King of Seals]

Sakura Hana
Norlkaz
Ser Arthur Dayne
BROseidon
MafiaSSK/Bert

these are my null's in the order of towniest --> scummiest

I think Sakura is town.
Norlkaz is pure null.
SAD is null leaning town right now. Bert point on why SAD is unlikely to defend SSK as scum is actually a pretty good point.
BRO was town before, but I have less faith in that read than I did before.
SSK, no clue.
Bert, town.

[Casso the King of Seals]

also, I just realized smth

Good to know.

Thor this game is supposedly not really caring about anything and just wants a lynch right?

if he doesn't feel like putting any effort in, why would he be interested in doing a meta dive on me? such a thing takes a lot of time and effort. so it doesn't make sense 0.0

vote: Casso

anyone up for a flashwagon here?

Thor asked if he would see you skimming a lot and missing a ton of ahit as town if he did a meta dive on you which doesn't actually mean he's going to do one. I can't say I understand what your point would be even if he was going to meta dive you, though.

[Casso the King of Seals]

Why is SSK scum other than his fucking strange trajectory on me?

P-edit: Sup.

He's less town than anyone else, mainly.

[Casso the King of Seals]

I have been justifying it.

I'm not as convinced as I started out (shhhh its a secret) but still think it's the best wagon by a longshot. If you'd prefer I move to you though perhaps that could be arranged (not really).

It disturbs me that you're scumreading me here after correctly scumreading me in my other two games with you ever (I think my play is pretty different here). I guess you just think I'm scum all the time and I've been giving you too much credit!

Thor managed to read someone correctly???

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Casso

Thanks for making this easy for me

This is the post thats kept you as a good townread for this long. I liked that you didn't actually read the words posted and instead sprang the hell on me, and I liked that you had been pseudo-scumreading me for a little while before this post so it make sense for you to react immediately with a vote on me instead of a "wait nacho are you actually scumreading me" action. I feel like Scumrir would have double checked to make sure I was actually attacking him before opening up the grounds for a 1v1. You have also been constantly ripping on your own play and expecting people to scumread you, which is also aligned with your older town play and not your scum play. I will admit that I get a little paranoid on you quicker than I used to; a long time without a renewed scum baseline always makes me worry.

I don't think this is the breakout scumgame, though.

[Casso the King of Seals]

I've skimmed the past 15 pages but I'm going back to read in detail.

F-16 3247:

I have no control of Thors actions. My read on you hasn't been upgraded to a strong townread until my most recent posts, so I haven't walled like crazy about it yet. I never told him to take the lead, but he did. Meanwhile... I have strong townreads on you and Stuffed Crust. I would like a better lynch so that neither of these things go through. Sheep me or find something better, please.

So, you are convinced now that Sakura is town and I am leaning that way as well. What's the Nacho reads-list looking like at this point?

TOWN ANGELS:
Tammy
Geists
Maraca
Falcon
Bert
Goodmorning
Sakura Hana

ANGELS IN WAITING:
Generic
Stuffed Crust
Pieguy
KoreanBBQ
Cephrir
Desperado

CAST DOWN FROM HEAVEN:
BRO
Norlkaz
SSK
SAD
DOMO
MuffinMan

[Casso the King of Seals]

You're reminding me of Micro 189 where you just tunneled a scumread near deadline as scum and were vague about your other opinions's strengths

You looked in that game too much at the non-broader picture

DOMO, Muffin, Norklaz, SSK.
You'll also notice that the situations between this and chosen are pretty fucking dramatic. Here, I'm saving the hell out of two players who are a threat to me and trying to kynch someone with a damn good chance of being scum. There, I tunneled on players and didn't comment in anyone else in order to avoid having to comment on NS the scummy as fuck mentee.

You also saved Equinox in Yabbaguy's C9++ game (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... =applejack) which I reviewed a while back. As it happens, you were scum, and your buddy McStab had a huge fight with Equinox. While he seemed to be losing initially, he bounced back, convinced a few people and turned the wagon on her. The town was very divided with Llamafluff and a few others supporting Equinox strongly while Inte and Bitmap staunchly supported McStab. The town was very divided and tensions were running high. At that point, you swooped in to save Equinox by pushing a bipartisan lynch on Defender (a lurker) and both camps were able to settle on a lynch. There were plenty of scum benefits there (you buddied with Equinox - who would be a threat to you, you got attention away from McStab without even looking like it, you were able to push a lynch approved by the major town players like Llamafluff). Looking at this situation, I see so many parallels. You come in to derail lynches on both Stuffed and me, you push a lynch on a lurkish Sakura, you try to get both Stuffed and I on your side while not doing anything controversial that might set alarm bells off for Tammy/ffery. I like that you eventually backtracked on Sakura though and I am reconsidering based on that. You never actually backtracked on defender in that game.

---

I am feeling slightly better about Casso though so they are back in my to be sorted pile. Nacho can be obvtown when he leads multiple scum lynches.

Holy shit, I forgot about that game.

[Casso the King of Seals]

I guess SC isn't as strong of a read as he once was based on relative towniness levels of others, but I still think they are town.

Some people with solid scumgames look town, but not town enough.

Make us more comfortable???

"Tammy is town but not town enough" ---> Tammy ended up scum after you said this in Chosen

SC doesn't look very town at all compared to the other people exerting much more effort into this game. That, and the lurking.

Just ftr Tammy has also looked town but not town enough and

has actually been town

You're town enough this time!

[Casso the King of Seals]

In my mind, a blacklist tell is a town tell that usually comes from town who is incredibly frustrated with another player and threatens consequences that go beyond this game (comes from Sakura threatening blacklisting Wisdom when he tunneled the hell out of her in Masons and Mafia, then reaffirmed by The Purple Shoe when Kuribo outed his alt). I don't believe it's moral to threaten someone who is pushing you like this in the game since its an ultimatum of (drop your scum case on me or it will effect me in real life and we won't be friends anymore), but sometimes it happens when people are frustrated as hell by the pushes on them.

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura, I feel rejected. You don't ask a guy out and then forget all about it in the middle of our date! Anyways, you haven't gotten back to me on what about my play bugged you that was original and not addressed before.

It was... well I dont remember exactly on who, but you kind of weren't pushing someone because you had no scumreads, then suddenly you got scumreads despite having a lot of nulls to do PoE.

Also, I know you sometimes tend to self-vote or ask for your lynch as both town and scum. Can you provide me with links to games in which you did this? As many of each would do. 5-6 of each would be a pretty good sample.

Ok let me see if i can find them:

Town

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p5017856 First time I Self-Voted as town, not much AtE in here tho.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p5091276 Self-Hammer.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p5072732 Not sure if this counts as AtE but was quite apologetic.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p5140309 First time meeting Cabd whose tunneling lead me into a breakdown then Self-Hammer.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p5156654 The Blacklist Tell Nacho's talking about.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p5222069 The infamous Xenologue, where everyone incl. Nacho and Mara read me so wrong I Self-Hammered out of frustration.

Scum

?
While looking through my own games I realize I don't remember when I've done AtE as scum (considering any AtE in there would be fake it's hard to remember games and how i felt)

[geists]

You can't provide links to games where you self-voted or asked to be lynched as scum?

I can.

[Sakura Hana]

I can provide links were i self-vote as scum, i cant remember where I asked to be lynched or AtE'd as I dont remember any of those =/
Glad if you can provide them tho

[Desperado]

Desperado - interactions with DOMO seem off gut-wise (Desperado, if you want to say this is dumb, please just save it and assume it has already been said <3)

not only is it dumb, but in the space of 10 hours you went from accusing me of trying to cause a distraction by voting domo to supporting a domo flash wagon and still calling me scummy for my interaction with him.

Desp is another good wagon methnks.

this is the smartest thing you've said all game

you're still scum

[zMuffinMan]

Partly their reputation as scum

what reputation? if you mean looking town(ish?) as scum, then how does this factor into you thinking i'm scummy here?

Muffin's play has been sketchy
...
Muffin just pings

go on

How in bloody fucking hell are you discounting the tremendous amount of effort that Nacho has put into this game. He got a wagon to L-1 and then fucking dismantled it because he started to see town glimmers.

There's absolutely no way that makes sense for scum-Nacho to do.

you keep calling nacho town for stuff that really doesn't make him town. like, really... unless the "effort" factor is some sort of town tell for you? how does him "dismantling" a wagon on someone that was starting to be townread by a fair few players make him more likely town?

either you're seriously underestimating him if you think this is something he couldn't do as scum, or i'm seriously overestimating him.

I don't see how those words could possibly bother you

coz nacho didn't give a shit about trying to "sort" me and was pretending that's what he was doing. nothing he was asking me, saying to me, or saying about me was designed to sort me, incidentally, it was about that point that he stopped even responding to me altogether (claiming it wasn't worth it or something?), which is a funny fucking way to sort someone

CAST DOWN FROM HEAVEN:
BRO
Norlkaz
SSK
SAD
DOMO
MuffinMan

heh

wasn't it you who criticised me for having a scum list that included you and mostly low-content players?

[Bert]

Desp still calls Sakura scum after she did some blacklist-sequence type tells

lol