Mini 1877: Spyro the Dragon (Game Over)
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Leonshade Mafia Scum
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Leonshade Mafia Scum
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Because I opened the thread and you were spamming the thread, as your name suggests. I don't exactly put a lot of thought into my RVS. Your OMGUS is noted.In post 30, RagingSpammers wrote:
Theres 2 more hydras in play and 2 posted so far, so why me (us)In post 22, Leonshade wrote:VOTE: RagingSpammers
Lots of dragons in Spyro but I don't remember any hydras.
VOTE: greylion
-CK"I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Leonshade Mafia Scum
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I like the way Gin N' Tonic started the game. I don't agree with the tell, but I see him trying to get the game going right off the bat. Side note: I understand the concept of SCFTWR, but what is it abbreviated from?
I do agree on Spammers's play looking like buddying/white knighting, there's no reason to defend another player from what essentially amounts to early game pressure."I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Leonshade Mafia Scum
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Leonshade Mafia Scum
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Once again I get the urge to townread Magna off his entrance, but at the same time I'm too paranoid about the player to do so.
Page 6-7: Besides the Magna-E&A, there's mostly fluff, meta I'm not privy to and other NAI stuff.
The Magna-E&A interactions do interest me, and 149 seems like misrep. The hydra dissonance makes it a bit hard to read, but E&A seem to be saying that the RC-head made a joke, then both heads seriously pushed on Gin due to his reaction to it; but the FA-head wasn't sure whether RC's post was a joke or a reaction test. Magna's 149 casts it like the hydra claimed the entire thing was a joke, when that doesn't reasonably follow from the interactions with the hydra.
If you think that E&A's opening will mostly catch town, isn't that in and of itself useful towards getting early townreads?In post 177, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
You seem to have me confused with someone who cares one iota for these sort of weak threats.In post 163, Elsa and Anna wrote:This is what it comes down to. What is the point that you are trying to make with regards to our interpreting my original intent with slightly varying degrees of seriousness?
Because if you can't come up with one and continue to press the line of reasoning as though it means something we will be voting you.
~Anna
Your opening was pointless IMO. It will mostly catch Town who think that “Teehee, look how scummy I can be in RVS” is alignment indicative and not realize your purposefully play that way as both alignments to not undermine your scum game. And you self-admit that it wasn’t serious. So I’m going to determine as best I can why your partner approached her early game the way she did to see if I can get a read off of her."I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Leonshade Mafia Scum
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This seems like an extreme stance to have so early on.In post 190, Not_Mafia wrote:Fully read up,don't see myself moving my vote today, Gin's vote was garbage and I'd like to not have to deal with any neighbour wifom down the line
Strongly disagree, RVS is a necessary evil and it's always good to end it early.In post 209, Not_Mafia wrote:And ending RVS too early is bad and an excellent way to stall a game as scum
Huh. Was your scumread on Gin a reaction test, or did you simply change your mind?
"I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Leonshade Mafia Scum
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This was your third post and your first two posts were RVS and fluff respectively, why did you consider it necessary to comment on your lack of attention?In post 213, eagerSnake wrote:I'm surprised none have misidentified me as scum yet. Similarly, I am surprised no scum have faked a scum read on me yet.
I have many other thoughts and opinions, but nothing worth sharing yet.
-Snake
My vote was an RVS, there's no reason for you to have a strong reaction to my "logic". Magna already beat me to pointing out how you defend Elsa from the same BS reason you voted me for.In post 215, RagingSpammers wrote:his logic to vote me bogus, rvs or not"I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Leonshade Mafia Scum
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Talk to me about what you're scumreading about me, outside my page 1 post.In post 228, SirCakez wrote:Stream of consciousness atchup notes
-Gin is probably town for poking the beehive that is Elsa and Anna.
-Leon dodging Gin vs EA on pg 1 is scummy.
-Aella is scummy for same reason
-Reserving judgement on EA until later due to my awful record of reading them, mainly RC
-RagingSpammers is awktown
-Leonshade's posting later on did not impress me at all either.
-Definitely not trying to read Magna yet after The Thing
-i'm already skimming gg, too many posts from the same people.
-ProHawk gut town
-ignoring Not_Mafia and his shitposting, someone should vig him
VOTE: leonshade
tl;dr spam less
All those posts from Spammers on page 10 and not a single one I see as AI.
I like Flubbernugget for town, asking useful questions and making useful comments.
If you're going to vig him, why are you voting for him?In post 259, eagerSnake wrote:There's literally nothing to talk about. Troll noticed strange statement and saw the chance to troll on it and troll-ed on it.
Don't worry, Not_Mafia is getting vigged tonight."I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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What was town about RS's posting?In post 278, SirCakez wrote:RagingSpammers' posting on the last page was town but jfc can you not live up to your name thanks.
eager if NM is getting vigged, why are you still voting him?
My Spammers vote is now a serious one. Snake sees more interested in talking about himself than anyone else, I want to figure out whether that's his style or whether he's hiding behind it."I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Leonshade Mafia Scum
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I don't disagree, nor do I really care about your RVS post. What I care about is Magna's reaction to it, and his interaction with you.In post 285, Elsa and Anna wrote:
It was RVS! Random voting stage. A joke and a reaction test at the same time. such posts are mostly just interactions makers.In post 279, Leonshade wrote:The Magna-E&A interactions do interest me, and 149 seems like misrep. The hydra dissonance makes it a bit hard to read, but E&A seem to be saying that the RC-head made a joke, then both heads seriously pushed on Gin due to his reaction to it; but the FA-head wasn't sure whether RC's post was a joke or a reaction test. Magna's 149 casts it like the hydra claimed the entire thing was a joke, when that doesn't reasonably follow from the interactions with the hydra.
Why you think spammers are scum? what particular posts/behavior is pinging you?
#Elsa
Spammers's vote on me pinged me, not because of the OMGUS but because of the reason for the vote. It seems fake to scumread a pure RVS and go "why me". There was also the white knighting of your slot, that was touched upon earlier; especially the inconsistency between scumreading me for an RVS, while claiming that you can't read someone off a one-liner RVS post (215)."I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Leonshade Mafia Scum
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If you don't scumread me for my RVS, why are you still voting for me? If you scumread me for something after my RVS, what and why?In post 287, RagingSpammers wrote:
fosing omgus on rvs is ridiculous, i voted you but thats it its not like i eventually scumread for that or pushed you, not sure where your comming from thingking -> overeaction. Its just that you actually outed seemingly logic with your rvs vote so i was curious about why our slot over elsa's. Also, the ''why me'' is an inside epicmafia joke, its considered a hard scumtell there so i just post it to get reactions like the one you just did .In post 286, Leonshade wrote:Spammers's vote on me pinged me, not because of the OMGUS but because of the reason for the vote. It seems fake to scumread a pure RVS and go "why me". There was also the white knighting of your slot, that was touched upon earlier; especially the inconsistency between scumreading me for an RVS, while claiming that you can't read someone off a one-liner RVS post (215).
The ''whiteknighting" is silly too, i said that trying hard to read someone based of their first signature cheeky line is just not happening and is inded stupid rvs meta
-CK
Never played in epicmafia so I'll take your word for it being an inside joke. I'm not sure I buy it being a reaction test, but I'll bite; what did you learn from my reaction?
Ixnay on the policy lynches.In post 293, Flubbernugget wrote:Policy lynch all reaction testers
100% agreed, lynches based on anything other than reads and alignment only help scum. This is my last comment on policy lynches in this game.In post 311, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:No seriously it needs to start being done because I'm going to tell you straight, scum me fucking loves people that say they hate a player or want to policy lynch them, wanna know why? They're fucking easy to push for mislynches.
The more you openly wish a players death regardless of alignment, it just gives the scum team an easier time pulling the strings of the game and tip the scale in our favor.
I've been trying to figure that out myself. He is very good at faking scumhunting and doesn't display the usual tells I look for. My current plan for figuring out the difference is being extra-critical and paranoid of him, to really test whether his reads are genuine.In post 329, massive wrote:Leon what does scum-Magna look like?"I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Leonshade Mafia Scum
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In post 280, Leonshade wrote:Huh. Was your scumread on Gin a reaction test, or did you simply change your mind?
@Not Mafia:Please answer the above."I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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The timing of this reveal is suspicious. You could've just said this right from the start, but instead you chose to dodge the question and cast doubt on E&A for pursuing the point.In post 347, eagerSnake wrote:Honestly I went to open the notepad I had my notes in and it was fucking empty OK? I think my 23mo daughter and my domestic partner ended up opening it and somehow deleting my notes because they like to play in notepad to teach her numbers and letters. I'm slightly pissed about it and trying to forget about it.
I haven't gotten around to recreating my notes as they won't be as good as my initial reactions to the posts.
Yeah, I'm kinda pissed about it.
But you do seem like you're trying to latch onto shit.
And why do you consider that scummy? Why don't you think town would question you about your notes?In post 351, eagerSnake wrote:The whole reason I posted what I posted was to see who would latch onto it.
N_M poked at it. E/A latched on."I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Leonshade Mafia Scum
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Yuck.In post 370, eagerSnake wrote:Because according to your reads list I'm the scummiest person here
also [wifom]If i were scum it would've been much easier for me to ignore/disengage or even make up some "notes" rather than say I didn't have any which is obviously scummy when I said I did. But I'm not scum so I just tell the truth about what happened and see if I can form any reads around that convo.[/wifom]
Scumreads are RS and Snake, in that order."I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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VOTE: eagerSnakeIn post 378, eagerSnake wrote:Scum will take reads you have wrong and know which direction to push duh
Scum that you have on town will try to pocket you duh
Come on dude seriously you don't know how early reads lists help scum? How many games have you played in?
^Rhetorical questions don't worry you don't have to answer to them
&& you will learn that I don't like answering to people
Why you guys are so worried about me and not caring about fuckers like Not_Mafia not doing shit is beyond me.
Nice deflection.
P-edit: Nice try, but I've explained my reads in my ISO."I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Leonshade Mafia Scum
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In post 382, eagerSnake wrote:LolIn post 384, eagerSnake wrote:What
Did you remember to start twilight trolling in case the vig is fake?In post 385, eagerSnake wrote:You guys are garbage or scum? Huh?"I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Leonshade Mafia Scum
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Don't know, I can just wait and see. But your reaction was interesting. If the vig was fake, my vote stays.In post 389, eagerSnake wrote:In post 387, Leonshade wrote:Did you remember to start twilight trolling in case the vig is fake?
Do you believe the vig is real?"I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Leonshade Mafia Scum
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E&A beat me to it, where did I imply that my SR had anything to do with Snake's defense?In post 402, Elsa and Anna wrote:
where did leon imply that they are scumreading snake for their defense of you?In post 398, RagingSpammers wrote:
So Snakey is scummy for defending someone you think is scum?In post 377, Leonshade wrote:Scumreads are RS and Snake, in that order.
Why can't Snakey just be defending someone who they think is town?
-Ali
and what do you think about snake defense of you?
#Elsa"I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Leonshade Mafia Scum
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VOTE: RagingSpammersIn post 475, RagingSpammers wrote:
Look at the bolded and tell me what you think it was trying to convey.In post 450, RagingSpammers wrote:Seriously Gin.
Pretty sure he softed vig by now
You need me to point out the soft?
Really Gin? Cause it was obvious
Obvious as all fucking hell.
Come on Gin.
Can't you see that stuff?
VOTE: Snakey
-Ali
A Spyro CC.
But I was faking a CC to see who would jump on it and who's paying attention to detail who isn't.
Gin clearly didn't see what I was trying to do.
Therefore I think he's town.
-Ali
You tested the waters for a CC then decided to back out, I see no other way to read this."I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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The only thing I'm confirmed is that Spyro is in this game, so I know it's not a fakeclaim. If flavor is linked to alignment, it's town. Don't want to vote a D1 vig claim regardless.In post 471, Elsa and Anna wrote:you mean it confirms that flavor is town?
I don't know flavor but it seems main character
#Elsa
P-edit: What's your flavor Spammers?"I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Talk to me about your townread on Spammers. What do you think about their fake CC?In post 504, Ælla Was Spine wrote:I think RS is town too
So far I'd be cool with lynching MoI/Elsa&A/Lane/massive/NotMafia"I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Why do you think RS is town? I agree that there's no logic to the CC from a town perspective; that's why I'm scumreading them for it.In post 512, eagerSnake wrote:Here is my problem with your logic:
I claimed Spyro town vig. Scum knows I'm town and not lying. You expected scum to jump on me because of your cc. That makes no sense to me."I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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I don't see the town motivation to fake-CC a PR. The only thing that confuses me is that RS backed out, and outed their own weird CC that no one else would have noticed anyway.In post 541, Ælla Was Spine wrote:
I don't really see the scum motivation behind itIn post 539, Leonshade wrote:
Talk to me about your townread on Spammers. What do you think about their fake CC?In post 504, Ælla Was Spine wrote:I think RS is town too
So far I'd be cool with lynching MoI/Elsa&A/Lane/massive/NotMafia
Now that I type it out like that, it does seem silly. Hmm."I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Note to self to check this out later, but I don't think I've ever changed my mind based on meta I haven't experienced myself.In post 544, Alisae wrote:Well it's coming from the guy who outed someone who they thought was not a PR but actually was
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=69588
And self-hammered as town.
-Ali
I don't have any completed games with either, so I'll take your word for the meta. I'll have to read RS's ISO again with a fresh perspective, the CC thing seems crazy for either alignment. My first impression was fake, but Vifam and you might just be right on the lack of scum motivation, I don't know why they would've outed their fake CC and brought this much attention on themselves if scum.In post 549, eagerSnake wrote:
I have played with both CK and Alisae before, all 3 of us town. There is no noticeable difference here. These two are crazy you have to understand this. But they are good players if you don't take their posts superficially. In the end, they will prove useful and will have good reads.In post 542, Leonshade wrote:Why do you think RS is town? I agree that there's no logic to the CC from a town perspective; that's why I'm scumreading them for it.
Meta experience aside, I also don't see any scum motivation in their posts. Their posts have come across as genuine. The attention they have brought on themselves is a rather townie thing. There are better places to apply pressure than here."I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Who do you scumread right now? You're not voting for anyone.In post 573, RagingSpammers wrote:
While I do agree with you there, I think votes on him right now would be low effort.In post 570, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:pro-hawks ISO sucks
He hasn't done anything that's specifcily scummy to me.
-Ali"I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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ProHawk's ISO is worthy of pressure,good find Gin. It's tempting to scumread the timing of the replace out, but in reality replacements are NAI.
I'll catch up later today, I also need to re-read RS's ISO with an open mind.
Townreading Gin, Snake and E&A, leaning town on Flubbernugget.
Yesterday jumbled my scumreads, so that's it for my reads list right now. Gun to my head RS is still scum, but if people with meta are saying this is their usual playstyle, I need to take a closer look at the slot."I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Could you explain your Lane TR? He's been off my radar thus far.In post 640, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Town
{eagerSnake, lane0168}
{RagingSpammers, Leonshade
{Elsa and Anna}
{Ælla Was Spine}
Null {Not_Mafia, Flubbernugget, massive}
{SirCakez, MagnaofIllusion}
{ProHawk}
Scum
Spammers is ridiculously defensive in this game. Blatantly so. If I believed in too scummy to be scum, RS would be it."I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Explain your TR on me here. Especially in the context of this vote:In post 737, RagingSpammers wrote:That's a new one.
In that case go ahead and talk to me about people. Here, I'll give you something to work with.
{Snakey, Lane}
{Leon, E&A}
{Flubber}
{MoI, Cakez, NM}
{ProHawk, Massive}
{Gin, Aella}
It's better for me to have my vote out there than unvote just to possibly vote you again. You getting quickhammered at L-2 is unlikely, and it would reflect poorly on the hammerer. And honestly, you getting hammered is not something I would spend time "worrying" about, between the associative tells from the wagon and not having to figure you out it would make the game easier in a way.In post 784, RagingSpammers wrote:
You want to know what would really make this seem genuine?In post 781, Leonshade wrote:I'll catch up later today, I also need to re-read RS's ISO with an open mind.
An unvote.
You want to know why?
Becuase if it was genuine, you would have unvoted so that you could read my ISO with an open mind without having to worried about me getting hammered, because I'm currently at L-2. And then once having re-read, put your vote back on if you so desired.
VOTE: Leonshade
-Ali"I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Who's scum?In post 790, massive wrote:I'm caught up AMA
You're cherrypicking 781 when I was expressing solid SRs on Snake and Spammers before Snake's claim.In post 796, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
Oh … Leonshade might be scum as well. 781 doesn’t dissuade me from that given that is probably the softest pool of Townreads you could have in the game-state and is careful to maintain distance from any solid scum-read.In post 510, Leonshade wrote:The only thing I'm confirmed is that Spyro is in this game, so I know it's not a fakeclaim. If flavor is linked to alignment, it's town. Don't want to vote a D1 vig claim regardless.
Cakez is another ISO I should read, scum!Cakez was a blind spot to me in Order of the Stick Mafia (I only joined the wagon because it was deadline, I wasn't actively SRing him)."I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Explain your townread on Magna. You had to ask what scum!Magna looks like, so what makes you think this isn't scum!Magna?In post 824, massive wrote:
I don't know. Still OK with my vote on Spammers. Maybe Not_Mafia. I think Magna is town, and AElla (this looks similar to vifam-town). Probably need a bit to get a handle on Cakez and Flubber. And I need to not forget that you tricked me in the last game we played together. I can't decide whether FA wants me to townread her because she's treating me like shit, but that play lost us Villains U-Pick, so YMMV.In post 821, Leonshade wrote: Who's scum?
The reads look non-committal. I'm not sure that's a scumtell for massive, though, never known him to have strong opinions early on.In post 829, eagerSnake wrote:
Scumposting.In post 824, massive wrote:
I don't know. Still OK with my vote on Spammers. Maybe Not_Mafia. I think Magna is town, and AElla (this looks similar to vifam-town). Probably need a bit to get a handle on Cakez and Flubber. And I need to not forget that you tricked me in the last game we played together. I can't decide whether FA wants me to townread her because she's treating me like shit, but that play lost us Villains U-Pick, so YMMV.In post 821, Leonshade wrote: Who's scum?
10 town points to whoever explains why without me having to"I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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No, Spyro's alignment isn't confirmed to me. I didn't even realize town faction was called "loyal to Spyro" until you mentioned it. Spyro being scum despite the town faction being called that would be delicious exact wording/rules lawyering, but you're right that it wouldn't make much sense. I didn't assume that Spyro is confirmed town because I figured a clever mod might be misleading with a role like this and make the other side scum.In post 837, lane0168 wrote:
There are 2 factions. Loyal to spyro, and forces of evil. I have a very uneasy feeling about the bolded and I've been rereading it trying to figure out why. There's a certain hesitation to call spyro Town here, and I really don't know why that is. Leon, does your roll pm that mentions spyro not make it clear what alignment he is? Or the fact that "loyal to spyro" is town faction, and spyro being scum seems a little bastard.In post 510, Leonshade wrote:
The only thing I'm confirmed is that Spyro is in this game, so I know it's not a fakeclaim.In post 471, Elsa and Anna wrote:you mean it confirms that flavor is town?
I don't know flavor but it seems main character
#ElsaIf flavor is linked to alignment, it's town.Don't want to vote a D1 vig claim regardless.
P-edit: What's your flavor Spammers?
Gin is the first townread I had, without checking I'm pretty sure I expressed it within my first few posts. Where have I claimed that I'm backing off because of Snake's meta? I started having doubts because I'm not sure the weird CC-gambit, more specifically bringing attention to it when no one noticed, doesn't make much sense for scum.In post 838, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
Actually this response shows exactly why I find 781 convenient. Snake based on his claim is a null factor – reasonable for either Town or Scum to make that unvote. EA to my eye is buddying – nothing inherently not fake-able out of that slot at all. Gin probably similar – he has the “approval” of Snake so no need to “rock the boat”. And your quasi-back-off on Raging based on Snake’s very incomplete and weak meta doesn’t scream Town Leon.In post 821, Leonshade wrote:You're cherrypicking 781 when I was expressing solid SRs on Snake and Spammers before Snake's claim.
"Quite possibly" scum? I'm quite possibly scum every game, do you think my claim increases the chances of me being scum? No one has claimed that my claim makes me town (well, Vifam did, but that was about my decision to claim, not the thing I'm claiming), so it's not like you're refuting some false notion.In post 840, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Oh and before I forget - why Leonshade's "I know Spyro is in the game" means he can quite possibly be scum?
Say hello to the Zach role from Gumball Mafia ..."I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Leonshade Mafia Scum
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In post 857, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Can someone tell me the benefit of telling not Mafia my flavor in the neighborhood chat when I told him I won't use it unless I can use it as a masonry?
That sounds suspicious, reminds me of when I was pinged by Creature when I found out he was far more open in a Lover PT while he was largely avoiding the main thread (and he was scum).In post 858, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:I don't get the point of trying to fish for information privately while doing nothing in the thread.
Also I find it strange that NF will claim he hates neighborhoods but starts to role fish with he hates"I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Leonshade Mafia Scum
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Nevermind, that makes sense.In post 870, Not_Mafia wrote:One would think neighbour's flavour would line up"I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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This is true, the "coaching" tell is largely useless, I tried to use it early on after my return from hiatus yet never caught scum with it. Pre-flip associative tells don't work.In post 860, SirCakez wrote:
I can see where your other parts of your read on me come from but this is bogus. I have literally never seen scum perform a "psst psst be more town" kind of post in thread and I'm pretty sure that means you haven't either. It's just a bogus scumtell, like AtE.In post 796, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
Does this look like Town talking to a scum read to you? Sir Cakez’s vote was on Aella at this point. Looks very much like “Be more Town” to a partner.In post 588, SirCakez wrote:I mean we basically know nothing about what YOU think. Give some content."I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Leonshade Mafia Scum
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Yes. Do you find that hard to believe?In post 889, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
So you are saying you identified Gin pretty much immediately and haven’t had any reason at all to even think about that read?In post 869, Leonshade wrote:Gin is the first townread I had, without checking I'm pretty sure I expressed it within my first few posts. Where have I claimed that I'm backing off because of Snake's meta? I started having doubts because I'm not sure the weird CC-gambit, more specifically bringing attention to it when no one noticed, doesn't make much sense for scum.
Here is you said on the RS matter …
I assume you meant to add a quote here? P-edit: You did.
Hmm, okay then.In post 889, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
Of course I think it increases the chances you are scum. I would not have brought it up if I didn’t. Given TTH’s Mod history the way you claimed said knowledge slots to a similar style role. Is it damning? By no means. You aren’t my top scum read currently which is why I am not voting you. But that claim alone put you on my radar and made me look more closely at your posting in my re-read.In post 869, Leonshade wrote:"Quite possibly" scum? I'm quite possibly scum every game, do you think my claim increases the chances of me being scum? No one has claimed that my claim makes me town (well, Vifam did, but that was about my decision to claim, not the thing I'm claiming), so it's not like you're refuting some false notion.
One is part of my role, the other is part of the wincon which is usually generic. I forgot because it's not important information, I'm sure I'm not the only one. Same with post 2.In post 889, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
So let me be clear on this – you read you Role PM closely enough to know that Spyro was confirmed to be in the game to you but not closely enough to notice the Town wincon which specificly states that Town is “Loyal to Spyro”? And likewise missed 2 completely?In post 869, Leonshade wrote:I didn't even realize town faction was called "loyal to Spyro" until you mentioned it."I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Leonshade Mafia Scum
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Side note: I enjoy your flavor-related colloquialisms.In post 890, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
Apparently I lost a paragraph in my last post … anyway here is what was supposed to be right after the above text …In post 889, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Here is you said on the RS matter …
So this is the “transitioning” I talked about – saying “RS is still a scum read but other players have meta so I need to re-read”. I don’t personally give two shakes of a dragon’s tail of players (specifically Eager) say “I’ve played with both these people as Town and this is it”. That’s complete half-assed meta and nto worth me even factoring into my own reads.In post 781, Leonshade wrote:Yesterday jumbled my scumreads, so that's it for my reads list right now. Gun to my head RS is still scum, but if people with meta are saying this is their usual playstyle, I need to take a closer look at the slot.
Snake isn't the only one, Gin is conflicted on whether this is RS's town play too. And the "transitioning" occurred earlier, see 571. Realizing that RS's play might not make sense for scum is what got me to reconsider. I need to re-read to see if there's scum motivation or if I was just scumreading a lynchbaity playstyle."I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Leonshade Mafia Scum
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In post 1094, Not_Mafia wrote:Oh hey so I'm a 1-shot role-cop too
Both are one-shot so it could go either way, D1 setup spec doesn't lead to results.In post 1095, Not_Mafia wrote:Too many parallels for us both to be town?
Bye FA your goodbye is getting me emotional."I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Leonshade Mafia Scum
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Could you sum up your Spammers read? (On phone since laptip is acting up, can't check your ISO).In post 1102, Infinity 324 wrote:Catching up is boring. Someone talk to me about something
{spammers, gin}
{leon, flubber}
{aella, massive, cakez}
---------null line-------
{lane, MoI, n_m}
{E&A now RC}"I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Leonshade Mafia Scum
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The game was advertised as role madness, there are very few roles that are AI here. Role cop is not one of the exceptions.In post 1106, lane0168 wrote:So many pr claims! This game is a shit show lol. This day just needs to end. I'm still sketched by Leon, and him not doing any digging after the spyro claim. Didn't even bother to look to see if maybe spyro was ai. That doesn't seem like someone who is unsure about spyro's alignment.
Considering the amount of roles being thrown out, I have no idea if role cop is scum. I was leaning scum, until we had another one.
What do we have for role claims?
Gin-1 shot role cop neighbor
N_m- 1 shot role cop neighbor
E&a - friendly neighbor *psyche* messenger
Eager - spyro vig
Leon - something that tells him spyro is in the game
Can someone complete if I missed anything?"I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Leonshade Mafia Scum
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Thanks! It's "Nebby" AKA Cosmog from Pokemon Sun & Moon, one of my favorites from the new games.In post 1118, Infinity 324 wrote:Leon, I like you new avatar! Is it a pokemon? I haven't played the new games."I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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I unvoted and said he was probably town. I'm not going to spend time "digging" for info on a townread, least of all one no one was going to agree to lynch that day anyway.In post 1110, lane0168 wrote:VOTE: leonshade
I think this'll be scum knowing there's spyro. He says he's unsure of alignment of spyro, but did zero research to maybe figure out if it was. Seems like something you might do. But did no digging, considering he didn't know if it was AI, and didn't know town fraction is "loyal to spyro".Wouldn't you at least try to look at the setup, and look for anything hinting at alignment and see if there is anything alluding to spyro's alignment?
That still looks to be like someone who knows spyros alignment and wanted to be cautious and make it look like he didn't know
I can't think of another game where the name of the town alignment would have been relevant to the name of a role. I said what I said about flavor-alignment links because there are mods like Magna who delight in subverting the expected link between alignment and flavor (in OotS Mafia my flavor was the main character, but he was a lyncher instead of a town member). I don't know if TTH is a mod like that, nor do I like to try and outguess the mod (people who try that usually get it wrong).
I stand by what I said, Snake is probably town but Spyro isn't the same as an Innocent Child. My role confirms it's not a fakeclaim, but I have no reason to exclude the possibility of TTH pulling the reverse of that role Magna linked and linking my role to a scum player.
The bolded interests me. How much experience have you had with games where merely claiming a flavor confirms someone as town? Mods usually keep the possibility of a mass flavorclaim in mind and design their setups around it."I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Leonshade Mafia Scum
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I can relate to the idea, since lying doesn't come naturally to me. But there are people who can spew BS at the drop of a hat, and I can't project my limitations onto others.In post 1126, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
Do you really believe this? If so then I have to filter my expectations of your play through a new lens because that is a bad, bad philosophy.In post 1124, Infinity 324 wrote:One of my favorite towntells is when someone appears to be posting what comes to their mind without filtering it. Spammers appear to be very much that way, without trying too hard to look like it."I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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You wouldn't do that regardless of alignment and you know it, you're too confident in your play as scum to do that.In post 1093, MagnaofIllusion wrote: Nah.Scum are the players who role over like a submissive little puppies in fear when someone claims Vig. Not wanting to risk getting shot.Just like you did with your pre-emptive claim. I know RC didn’t get the memo from you on that and you had to say “NOT ON MY WATCH” when he voted Eager in typical RC OMGUS fashion. But you have been the dutiful little “helper bee”.
P-edit: What the hell is going on?"I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Leonshade Mafia Scum
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Yesterday got me to go "no more mafia for today", stressed out enough as it is.
The townread was post-claim, I was scumreading him before. The slot is probably town even with just the vig claim, and Infinity brought up that he had softed it earlier, which raises the claim's credibility even higher. Looking up clues to see if Spyro is town is not something that would've ever even entered my mind, this is not an open setup so I wouldn't expect the mod to go "btw Spyro is confirmed town" in the opening post. I think your accusation is silly, I've been playing this like a normal mafia game where I try to read people, and you claim I'm scum because I'm not going through the mod posts with a fine comb to look for alignment clues.In post 1141, lane0168 wrote:It wasn't a town read. You were voting there. You unvoted with the claim? I just think maybe you would've checked to see if there was any information that would hint at spyros alignment. Because figuring out people's alignment is how you play this game. Scum don't need to if course
I couldn't tell you how much experience I have with that. I can't remember. I don't know that it's relevant considering you not knowing the alignment is not the reason for the vote. It's the fact you didn't do the simple things that could've alluded to it. Like read the setup
Of course you wouldn't want him to shoot you, but you wouldn't blatantly placate him, either. That would be too out of character for you. You're not in the position where you would need to go out of your way to placate Snake, so the fact that you haven't done isn't alignment indicative. The fact remains that in response to an accusation, you said "no, scummy players act like this" when that's not the way you would act as scum in this position.In post 1197, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
Nice generalization. The fact remains that scum (especially in a know alignment distribution set-up like this one) have more reason to placate a claimed Vig than Town. I might not go Surrender Cobra like FA did but I wouldn’t go out of my way to rock the boat on Eager’s power-trip.In post 1186, Leonshade wrote:You wouldn't do that regardless of alignment and you know it, you're too confident in your play as scum to do that.
Do you disagree?"I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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By RC's own admission it's almost impossible to read him without meta, which I don't have. I don't like RC's playstyle, but FA's play made me townread the slot. I've also been townreading Gin all day, so I'm not interested in lynching either slot today. The arguments between the two get too heated and it's not what I enjoy in my mafia games (or anywhere else for that matter), so I'm probably just going to nope out if there's another five pages of those."I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Leonshade Mafia Scum
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Why apologize to someone for scumreading them?In post 1429, Infinity 324 wrote:RC,I'm sorry for scumreading you, maybe you can understand given the tactics you used and I didn't know you'd go to that extent as town. Not saying it's not justified, maybe it is, but at least for me it's a lot more helpful if you try to cooperate even if I scumread you for shit reasons."I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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What.In post 1501, Infinity 324 wrote:
It depends whether the other kills make sense given the circumstances. But I think gin is a strong enough townread for most players that I'd be suspicious if he was still alive in the late game.In post 1498, massive wrote:
How long would you like to wait to see if he gets NKed? Because, off the top of my head, I'd kill the vig, RC, and then maybe even the other claimed rolecop just for WIFOM fun before I'd kill Gin. Why is that an important part of your current feelings about Gin?In post 1459, Infinity 324 wrote:I will say that gin could be opportunistic scum. But he'd have to be essentially a god scum to be scum this game so I prefer to wait and see if he gets NKed. Like its so unlikely he's able to fake convincing paranoia, convincing efforts to get the game going, good questions, etc.
VOTE: Infinity
You know better than to believe this. It seems you feel the need to seed a reason for you to flip your Gin read."I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Leonshade Mafia Scum
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I will return tomorrow, I don't have access to wifi atm and my laptop can't reliably keep the connection I'm reading from my phone.
The aggressive response seems out of cheracter for Inf and I tunneled him all D1 in Typhon mafia."I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Leonshade Mafia Scum
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Gin's 1501 explains why this would be a bad reason to scumread someone, but my issue with your post is that it feels like a premature backtrack. You're townreading him and said that he'd have to be "god scum" this game, yet you felt the need to state conditions under which you would change your read. There's no reason for town to foreshadow how their reads might change, since town play is inherently reactive, but I can see why scum might feel the need to have a backdoor in their ISO, just in case. Commenting on LYLO reads D1 just seems too forward-thinking for town.In post 1512, Infinity 324 wrote:Leon, you don't think universal townreads surviving to late game isat allsuspicious? Like you wouldn't even look into it?
Looks like you're right. The post of yours I quoted didn't show the context of E&A's statement, and my recollection was that they were making a generic statement of their read on you. Without the context your post looked like a deflection, but with the full context I can see where you were coming from.In post 1527, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
See here’s the thing – do you think me not willing to toe the line with Eager is a scum tell? Because that is what Frozen floated and I responded to. You seem to want to focus on my response to her about it not the fact that in no way, shape, or form is the original conclusion alignment indicative.In post 1494, Leonshade wrote:Of course you wouldn't want him to shoot you, but you wouldn't blatantly placate him, either. That would be too out of character for you. You're not in the position where you would need to go out of your way to placate Snake, so the fact that you haven't done isn't alignment indicative. The fact remains that in response to an accusation, you said "no, scummy players act like this" when that's not the way you would act as scum in this position."I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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I'm glad that someone can see it the same way, especially a conftown player. I was starting to doubt my read when it looked like nobody else agreed with me, but this proves that I'm not crazy. I was going to ask about your read change on me the first time I saw this post, but that's unnecessary now.In post 1528, lane0168 wrote:@rc, because I townread Gin, and my gut says you're scum. Our last two games you were scum, one I was blown away you didn't get lynched after 2 fake claims, the other I was pretty confident you were scum, but I couldn't explain it clearly. Here I'm getting that feeling because I know you've played the "people just want to lynch me to say they lynched me incase I'm scum" and you play "id never play shitty as town to make my scum game better" cards. Also I totally agree that you AtE incessantly until it works and people go from "this is scum rc, look what he's doing" to "wow he's doing it SO MUCH he can't be scum" like infinity has done.
Leon is a town read.
@moi I've changed my mind on Leon, so my scum reads are still raging, because I see the fake claim the opposite of everyone else except Leon.That she tested the waters, realized how it could fuck her over, and came clean. She wasn't thinking clearly, thinking she could maybe get the vig lynched, but realized how bad of an idea it was."I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Which game was this?In post 1900, Infinity 324 wrote:
Having recently finished a game in which 2 scum I had strong townreads on both lived to endgame, I may be thinking about things a little differently than you expect.In post 1899, Leonshade wrote:Gin's 1501 explains why this would be a bad reason to scumread someone, but my issue with your post is that it feels like a premature backtrack. You're townreading him and said that he'd have to be "god scum" this game, yet you felt the need to state conditions under which you would change your read. There's no reason for town to foreshadow how their reads might change, since town play is inherently reactive, but I can see why scum might feel the need to have a backdoor in their ISO, just in case. Commenting on LYLO reads D1 just seems too forward-thinking for town."I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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My initial reaction was that it made no sense for a town reaction test. It wasn't something most people would even notice, so how would you expect to get reactions from it? And the justification that Gin isn't scum because he didn't notice it makes zero sense. That's why I think that RS did it to test the waters for a CC, but gave himself plausible deniability and quickly backed out. Outing it himself allowed him to get ahead of the story and spin it into a reaction test.In post 1575, Infinity 324 wrote:In post 1302, Infinity 324 wrote:@leon: Can you explain this more? Why not a town reaction test? And why would scum expect to get a lynch from that?
A Spyro CC would lead to a 1v1. Bad trade for scum, but then that's probably why RS backed out.
I've mellowed out on the possibility of it being a reaction test, but attempted CC was my first instinct and I still think it's more likely. It wasn't a smart play for either alignment, but some people seem to think that only town can play dumb, when that's not the case."I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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Leonshade Mafia Scum
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While you're here Cakez: Explain your RS townread and Aella scumread.
Ok. I still think that your reasoning is wrong, and the statement is still premature. I could see PTSD playing a factor in it, though.In post 1904, Infinity 324 wrote:http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=70181
PEdit: it seems opportunistic and out of nowhere. But now that you ask, let's talk about it. Why does scum!gin who's so confident in his scum game, replace out under pressure? Why can't town!gin be frustrated and not thinking clearly?
Scum are generally more cautious, sure. Doesn't mean that RS is. But I do generally agree that reckless plays are more likely town than scum.Infinity 324 wrote:Occam's razor says it's a silly town play rather than a weird scum gambit. There's a lot more on the line for scum if they do a play like that.
Also it would take more thinking through as scum...don't you think they would be more likely think through that it's a dumb play?
Also I don't think scum would even out it if no one noticed anyway.
RS could've just outed it so no one could use it against them, later."I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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If the claim is real, then the statement is true. I don't like to do setup spec, especially D1, so the claim doesn't affect my reads right now. It is the weakest of the roles thus far, though, I think I know what you're getting at. It sounds like the fakest of the claims thus far.In post 1918, lane0168 wrote:How legitimate do you think the argument is of "day 2 double voter is basically VT for balance" Leon?"I still cant believe Leonshade just talked his way out of getting lynched by posting Lion King gifs"
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