Mini 1877: Spyro the Dragon (Game Over)

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well a mafia goon will show up as a VT, or at least the wiki says that's how it would appear. The only thing I could check is if they were lying about claiming VT with their PR.

Role Madness means this really isn't a thing ....

[eagerSnake]

if it is decided today to mass claim this is not an acceptable claim.

Of course not. But it was worth noting.

[MagnaofIllusion]

For reference here is the original ad for the game ...

Spyro the Dragon

Uses characters from Ripto's Rage and Year of the Dragon.
Role Madness, 13 players, 3v10
Hydras allowed
Must have 3 completed on site games

PM me to pre-/in. ^_^

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Players!

MagnaofIllusion
Not_Mafia
Flubbernugget
SirCakez
Elsa and Anna (Frozen Angel + RadiantCowbells)
massive
ProHawk
RagingSpammers (Cloudkicker + Alisae)
Leonshade
eagerSnake
lane0168
Ælla Was Spine (Lycanfire + Vifam)
TheRealGin-N-Tonic

Spoiler: Still Breathing Fire (13)

MagnaofIllusion
Not_Mafia
Flubbernugget
SirCakez
Elsa and Anna (Frozen Angel + RadiantCowbells)
massive
ProHawk
RagingSpammers (Cloudkicker + Alisae)
Leonshade
eagerSnake
lane0168
Ella Was Spine (Lycanfire + Vifam)
TheRealGin-N-Tonic

Spoiler: Killed in a Hilariously Cartoonish Way

Oh I see now

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Don't know why that quoted that but anyways

If we mass claim, no one can really lie about their role because N_M and I can check, correct?

[eagerSnake]

Right

[MagnaofIllusion]

If we mass claim, no one can really lie about their role because N_M and I can check, correct?

Yes, but the benefit of that relies on both of you being Town. Which is not an assumption I currently think is warranted.

[eagerSnake]

Well if one of them lies about their partners role or something then they will likely eventually be confirmed scum themselves

[Ælla Was Spine]

Lycan here.

The way I play isn't suited to games that explode to 50 pages. I played a game that hit 50+ pages in the pregame phase and I took notes for a majority of the posts in a meaningless game phase. Mafia fatique didn't hit me until day 2 of that game.

I've bounced a little bit to vifam in our PT but that's basically why the slot was noncommittal early. We didn't have a PT until after EA vs Gin vs RS and I wasn't happy doing anything until we had a PT to talk, then I ended up doing nothing and being constantly behind 20 pages. I'm at 40 atm.

He had been playing a head down minus me taking a bat to one of his scumreads (massive) and reinforcing his scumread on MoI. I promised him top priority and had no real moment of sobriety on my day off/birthday yesterday. Probably a note to everyone not to hydra with me.

I have TRs on eager, RS, NM, flubber

From my "are we being lynched" two last page skim people are going on about Cakez/EA(RC). I can see some good points about both of them, and tbh, a cakez flip would make me feel better about Gin who started floating off into scumspace at post 729 when he unapologetically makes the comment vs. RS with his vote on prohawk and makes another one on massive 20-30 posts later. it gets worse when he references "work on RS" in 965 when he shades EA. I don't like the immediate vote v. Gin from Anna. If it was Elsa, I wouldn't mind so much. I so much as told Vifam early on that scum RC will accuse you back when RC did this to Gin in the early 1/2 page scuffle.

But

that's where I stopped reading because it's 6:30AM.

My main scumread is Leon

-disliked cakez and leon's rolefishing of eager (why are you voting him if you're a vig?)
-I never understood how over the top he had to be in 502 regarding the fake CC. It's like he was testing the appropriate amount of paranoia to have
-781 was a flat post. "worthy of pressure" is probably the most bland, least proactive way to give consent to a wagon. it felt like more of an observation than an attempt to further the game. really dislike continued shade of RS. like why even bring up the lurker slot if gun to your head RS is scum. just say let's talk about RS.
-819 is a weak shade post, it was so bad that i left a snarky comment in hydra pt over it.
-but it's worth noting that lane did the exact same thing with post 826.
-859 shade making a leon post
-869 i feel like i scumslipped, so i'm going to double down on it! ~leon. literally didn't think he was scumslipping there because of how dumb it would be, so acknowledging a mistake here looks awful on leon.
-between posts 890 and 931 he made another shade post i don't care enough to find it because i'm too busy laughing

so mainly 502/781 and associatives i don't mind sharing

i know vifam wants moi but i kind of enabled that. i felt like moi missed the mark in 796 re: his shade on leon but something i missed when i was iso diving was the context behind 890 and how it seemed like some genuine push on leon. so i don't feel bad moving the vote VOTE: Leon

also, not using a neighbour PT to scumhunt is fucking dumb. any suspicion you have can be tested, so why they initially mutually SRed each other and later brought hood business into the main thread is making me wonder why they have resistance.


-lycan

[Ælla Was Spine]

they are nm and gin by the way i think i wrote out "and everyone who enabled the suspicion between [those two] are suss as well" but backspaced it when i realized i should post who and then i realized i didn't have that in my notes and i'm not going back to do that and i'm going to sleep


-lycan

[lane0168]

I've been trying to decide if I should claim or not all day. What are roles you claim right away without pressure?

[eagerSnake]

Always claim negative modifiers

Ascetics

Cowards/Hiders/Commuters

Hateds

etc

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

miller, ascetic, stuff like that. Otherwise if you're protective/investigative you hold cards close to chest.

[massive]

I think I'm all for Leonshade too.

My current plan for figuring out the difference is being extra-critical and paranoid of him, to really test whether his reads are genuine.

Reading this and then reading his interaction with Magna does NOT feel like he is treating him with any sort of paranoia at all.

VOTE: Leonshade

[MagnaofIllusion]

Always claim negative modifiers

Ascetics

Cowards/

Hiders/Commuters

Hateds

etc

The bolded is NOPE NOPE NOPE ...

I don't know whether you are just poorly informed or not Eager. You are new but Hider and Commuter are absolutely not Negative Utility. In fact optimal Hider play is to indicate your Night target as your death is a Cop guilty not direct claim.

Miller and Ascetic are the two common of the "claim Post 1 or you are scum if you claim them later" roles.

[eagerSnake]

Oh yeah I forgot Hider is different on this site

Hider where I come from is a 1-shot commuter

[eagerSnake]

1-shot commuter is negative utility it's like a -0.3 role power

[lane0168]

Alright I wasn't sure about mine. I've never seen my variant, but I've seen the base role confirmed day 1 before

[Infinity 324]

How is an optional role negative utility 0_0

Nothing town or scum about aella's catchup

[eagerSnake]

How is an optional role negative utility 0_0

Nothing town or scum about aella's catchup

Are you asking how 1-Shot Commuter is negative?

Well for one they only get one shot so it's utility is already extremely limited

Furthermore if they don't claim then cops, docs, inventors, etc may waste a shot on them when they commute

Then there's the WIFOM of them even telling the truth or even if telling the truth the WIFOM of them being scum

And this is over many many many many games analysis it shows as negative utility

1-Shot Commuters (I know it's surprising) get lynched a lot, cops target them the night they commute and shit and it becomes a real mess after that

[MagnaofIllusion]

...in what way?

[Infinity 324]

I guess I'm saying that if its negative utility when you use the role, you can just no use it and then it's not negative utility.

But w/e

[MagnaofIllusion]

First off ignore 1670 it was a misclick ... derp ...

Ok on the concept of mass-claiming – my gut is to say no. I don’t think the possible upsides outweigh the possible downsides.

Upsides –

1. Allowing claimed 1-Shot Role Cops to find fake-claims.

Yup, that’s about it as it stands.

Downsides –

1. Outing any protective roles that might prevent a scumkill.
2. Giving Scum a clean road map to Night actions. If you need any further evidence why this is bad look at Thing Mafia. An open setup where Town carefully organized Night actions. Scum giddily used the knowledge of the intent of the plan to strategically kill of any threatening roles (the only Town investigation role for example) early which made Nightplay catching of scum impossible by Day 3.
3. Any scum in Eager / Gin / NotMafia render the possibility of Upside number 1 actually yielding anything helpful basically zero.

I could go on. But as of now I don’t think it is wise at all even with all the pointless early claims that have been made.

--

Lycan’s 1658 doesn’t move my read on the hydra away from scum in the least. In fact I’d say that would be a classic scum catch-up to me – focusing basically on one scum suspect (Leon) who wasn’t a popular Town or scum read and lots of verbiage that doesn’t add up to much actual content.

The Town read on NotMafia is also completely incomprehensible given the last sentence where he expresses concern about how Gin and NotMafia are using the PT.


--

...in what way?

You demonstrated in that game you’d push a player (FAQ and Fire as Town, Shadow as scum) then find a way to back off later if it wasn't solidly received by Town. In this case the momentum on RC was pretty dead and you suddenly 180ed for bad reasons.

Speaking of which, are you sure there weren't any other times I gave townreads for reasons you thought were bad?

Those were the two common games that came to mind. But this prompted me to looks at your games history and was reminded of The Purge Mafia where you were scum as well. So going to look at it later today also.

PEdit: The only reason n_m is above null for me is modWIFOM with the claims

Yet another example of an absurd reason to Town read someone and why I think this is invented Town-reading from scum you. Your later “it is a weak reason I admit” is meaningless after I called out your scum proclivity to do so.

I will say that this does look like an attempt to sort me which is...better than what I've seen before from MoI but it's a pretty weak attempt and not too hard to fake.

This is classic fence sit that appears to be looking to see what popular opinion on my analysis is … which is scum motivated play.

--

I have reason to believe theres either a roleblocker or redirecter on the scum team

Leave it at that

Then I question why you’d have laid the groundwork on a Not Mafia shot if this is the case …

1-shot commuter is negative utility it's like a -0.3 role power

It is a bad stance. Roles are not negative utility just because they can be misused. Any role can be misused. True negative utility roles are a detriment to Town independent of how they are used (Miller, Ascetic) Also stop referring to some other site meta because this isn’t whatever other site you are used to.

--

Yeah and Walking Dead was over the summer/start of school. I have 1/4 of the time now, so I can't exactly get very engaged. My posting is down sitewide.

It has nothing to do with post volume. It absolutely has to do with lack of any engagement in the post you make. But nice sideline attempt.

I pretty clearly called out their crappy reads in those posts.
And I'm still scumreading the slot, so no clue what you're saying here. My vote is still there too.

So you’ve parked your vote on a player that isn’t the main wagon, aren’t doing anything of consequence in pointing out why they are scum (which my summary shows) and claim that I shouldn’t see that as potential distancing?

Yes, because there's this thing called bussing.

Garbage. Of course bussing / distancing exists. It’s why my independent scum reads on you and Aella get enhanced with the interactions I am seeing. But using that fact as an excuse to not commit to an opinion in the present time is scummy fence-sitting.

[eagerSnake]

I think not wanting to mass claim and the openly opposing it is blatantly anti-town in this situation

VOTE: MoI

[Infinity 324]

You're wrong