Mini 408 - EXiLE Mafia, MOD ABANDONED
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Raging Rabbit Mafia Scum
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Morning, everyone!
I'm not sure if I got nominated for being dangerous, loud, stupid or a bunny. Probably just random. Anyway I'm sorta glad I did, in a way, since it makes it day a lot more interesting for me.
This is a rather sucky situation for the town to be in. Only slightly more than a third of the town eligible for a lynch, with the usual day one lack of info to boot. To top it off, we know scum would never nominate each other, so the nominated people actually have a slightly higher chance of being pro town than everyone else. I have no idea how to tackle this, and fear we'll have to resort to a random lynch.
I will say this, though - I'm gonna keep an eye open for any scummy behaviour from our non-nominees, and fully expect all of them to stay active despite not being in danger of a lynch.-
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Raging Rabbit Mafia Scum
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What reason could they possibly have to nominate each other? Nominations are secret, and it's not like nominees are ever gonna be confirmed innocents or something.Jack wrote:Eh, I wouldn't assume scum will never nominate each other. They probably won't but it's a dangerous assumption.
I'd vote you back on this, unfortunately I can't.-
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Raging Rabbit Mafia Scum
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Huh? In a 12 player game, I'd assume a 3 player scum team. So we have 3 peole who'll never nominate each other and 9 others who are completely fair game (with 1 corpse).Jack wrote:Well, the day 1 nominations aren't based off of any suspicions. So the mafia could indeed ensure that none of the nominated were mafia. If we assume they did this then that would confirm 4 innocents. But it's entirely possible that they nominated one of their own--and you seemed to be pushing the idea that these were confirmed innocent, which makes me suspect that this is the case.That doesn't make the nominees confirmed innocents, or anything close, and if you'll check back you'll see I never said that. It just gives them aslightlyhigher chance of being pro town compared to the non-nominees, which isn't gonna help them much since one of them's being lynched anyway. Scum have no reason to intentionally put one of their own in such a risk (possibly 50%), so I'm very reasonably assuming they'll never nominate each other. Certainly not on day 1, at least.
I actually think there's very good chance that at least one of nominees happens to be scum, the problem will be finding out which with no real information to go on other than possible investigations and all the nominees being extra careful not to fuck up.
Meaningless FOS: Jack, for bad logic and misrepresenting my post.-
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Raging Rabbit
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Raging Rabbit Mafia Scum
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Good point, didn't think of this.Skruffs wrote:I think if the mafia really wanted to avoid being nominated, they would have *All* voted for the same two people, in order to put three votes against them. Everyone else (save maybe for a mason group) would be voting randomly, so, assuming each of the people 'randomly' votes for two other people, the people who already had three would get 1 or 2 more each. It wouldn't have been a four way tie like it is today. With that in mind, I think the mafia voted randomly; maybe they didn't know if who everyone nominated would be made public the next day and didn't want to be seen voting en masse.
Of course it's possible, and of course we shouldn't.Skruffs wrote:With that in mind, I think it's *possible* that a scum has been nominated today, so maybe we shouldn't just speedlynch. >.>
I would really think not, but just for the record - I nominated TCS and Firecoal because random.org said so.Skruffs wrote:Would there be any point in talking about who nominated who and why?
How is that bad? Also, are you saying you nominated meJDodge wrote:I nominated Raging Rabbit for being alliterative...twice?! Scum!
Meaningless OMGUS vote: JDodge.-
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I was originally being sarcastic, but this is really quite weird.JDodge wrote:Irrelevant as in that person didn't get nominated. Sorry for not being clear about that.
I feel that the only people who need to share their nominations are those who either nominated someone who's up for lynch, or got NK'd.
I personally don't see any real use in sharing your nomination ofanyone, since I don't think we can learn anything from it atm. However, I'm also sure sharing your nominations can't hurt the town in any way, so I'm willing to play along just for the heck of it. I really don't see what makes you think it's only useful to share your "popular" nominees, what sets them apart from the other ones?
I think you shouldn't be hiding information from the town, since even though it's a really neglectible it still makes you look a tiny bit scummy.[/i]-
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Raging Rabbit Mafia Scum
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I don't find Skruffs' earlier comments scummy in any way.
I'm just having a hard time figuring out just how, assuming none of the other nominees screws up substentionally.Skruffs wrote:If there is scum up, and I think more than likely there is, than worse comes to worse we have a 1/4 chance of getting lucky. If we work together, maybe we can narrow it down to 50% or more.-
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Ghyrt wrote:Of course today's lynch matters. What I found suspicious was that you felt the need to say it. It's almost as if you were trying to set yourself up as helpful. I see this again in your saying "If we work together....". The phrase insists upon itself, as if we don't know we want to find scum.Orhe really was trying to be helpful, and you're nitpicking on minor trends in his wording that aren't actual scumtells.
Not that I mind lynching him, of course, or anyone else who isn't me for the matter. I'm just inclined to point out what I consider faulty logic.
Nah, I think it was a genuine mistake. If he posts his other nomination and explains his earlier logic, there won't be too much lingering suspicion on my part. Just like in our ealier debate.Jack wrote:It is weird. And I have a theory. Skruffs mentioned the possibility that the scum all nominated the same people. Let's say they did. If we all post who we nominated, scum have to lie or be exposed. But if they lie, the numbers may not line up correctly, and they might be found out. By only listing one of his nominations he avoids that somewhat.
Vote:JDodge
Apparantly your name starting with a C is an absolutely huge scumtell.Cheesefan wrote:Did EVERYONE vote for me-
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Raging Rabbit Mafia Scum
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Raging Rabbit Mafia Scum
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:goodposting:Skruffs wrote:Cheez was nominated at least 4 times, and the other nominees were chosen at least 3 times. I say this because MM has two votes on them, and isn't nominated, so ergo there is either one person with the most votes and the other three are tied for second, or it is a four way tie for first.
So 13 out of 24 votes (or possibly 16 if a four way tie) were used to get the four nominees up here. We have 8 accounted for, out of 14 total votes.
Jack: Someone else suggested it, I added my thoughts to it, which were that mafia may not want to be seen voting en masse if there's some sort of public display of votes.
Ghyrt: in all your accusing me of being 'phony helpful', you forgot to reveal your nominations. Stop waiting to see what everyone else nominated and post
Ghyrt, Maz Medias, yellowbounder, we wait for you to reveal your results.
Sidenote: Considering we have a skunk, a dog, a bunny, and harry potter nominated, I'm wondering if this island is a refuge or an insane asylum. >.>
It's real troubling you look the most pro town to me this far, since as a fellow nominee I'm supposed to try to lynch you...
What he said (though I don't see that many ways it'd help).TCS wrote:You're going to have to help me on this one... I see a number of ways in which this could help the town and no ways in which it could hurt us.
I feel your pain, man. The fact that it's a drawing probably helps, though I don't get how people keep managing to miss the lack of a scar.Cheesefan wrote:ARGH
Its NOT harry potter
Its John lennon
*breaks into tears*-
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Raging Rabbit Mafia Scum
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This is either really kind and altruistic or a bit scummy, though I can't decide which.Skruffs wrote:If we don't find some kind of direct evidence worth going on today, or come to the conclusion that we are all townies, I'll take one for the team. I'd prefer to be civilized about it though..
OK, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for a while.Skruffs wrote:Bunny, it helps in lots of ways. Let's wait until after everyone has revealed their nominations or explained why they aren't going to.Everyone reveal your nominations or we'll kick you butt tomorrow!
I might've debated this if it wasn't for stupid Radcliff hurting my love of Potter, anyway they both rule.Skruffs wrote: Lennon rules more than Potter any day.
No.DW wrote:Which brings up the interesting question, "Do you think Harry I suppose to look like John Lennon?"-
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Raging Rabbit Mafia Scum
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I dunno, but why the fuck do you care? We've got absolutely nothing to lose...Maz Medias wrote:I want to ask again what we gain from full revelation of nominations? All I see happening is the scum jumping on to any overlaps in voting and using that to maneuver us towards a mislynch.IGMEOY: MM.
Like I said before in defence of you, I dislike this kind of nitpicking.Skruffs wrote:.. who's 'us'?-
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Raging Rabbit Mafia Scum
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We haven't "already lost", we've been randomly chosen. The 3 nominees who don't get lynched today are less likely to be nominated tomorrow, if anything.JDodge wrote:Think about it.
There's nothing to lose for us because we've, in a way, already lost; the people who'll get nominated are those who have given a reason to be nominated.
Disagree. We need to get roughly the same amount of info from everyone, but unfortunately have to lynch one of us four. There's no need to be so short sighted.JDodge wrote:And the only people who we need to get a lot of info out of are the ones who we can get rid of. So, with a lack of info on those who aren't in trouble at the moment, people will resort to others.
I really don't see this ever happening, especially given the very high activity level we seem to have here.JDodge wrote:The town has everything to lose due to the simple fact that they could, even without noticing, play out a scenario in which the only who are in danger are those who start in danger.
There's no need to ignore possible extra information. Also, the special mechanicsJDodge wrote:This can be avoided by just playing normally, ignoring the special mechanics except for voting and nominations.arevoting and nominations.
Agreed. Also, Skruffs seems to have a few tricks up his sleeve, so maybe it'll be helpful today as well.Jack wrote:Listing the nominations probably won't help us today. But it will prevent the mafia from voting en mass. If there is a discrepancy today we can't show anything, but if there is one tomorrow we can ask everyone why they nominated who they did, which means the mafia have to lie even more and may be forced to take an unconvincing pose.
I think we everyone should be discussing tommorow's nominations regardless of whether or not we random lynch, since forcing everyone to state their nominations in advance will make it significantly harder for scum to lie about them.Jack wrote:Forgot to add, if we don't think any of the 4 are particularly suspicious, we should just pick one to lynch, not vote for him yet, and discuss who to nominate. That way the other 8 people don't get ignored.
Not really getting it either.Jack wrote:I don't understand this vote. What is skruffs supposed to be warning his scumbuddies not to fall for? Why would he suggest sharing nominations if he thought they would reveal something?
That is such a minor concern it shouldn't even be taken into account imo.Skruffs wrote:The only people who are town who have reason be worried would be... maybe a mason group who voted together.
If I understand you correctly, that's the same idea I had in my response to Jack. Wouldn't call it game-breaking though, it's very arrogant for us to assume the mod didn't think of it. Also the mafia can still lie about their nominations even if we do force them to state them in advance since we have no way of knowing who was being untruthful other than possible power roles. Forcing everyone to state nominations in advance just leaves them less space for lying and forces them to come up with good explanations for every false nomination.Ghyrt wrote:Game-breaking strategy (maybe): If we ever need to completely bypass the nomination process, we can decide everyone's nominations the day before so that everyone is on the block. I think that this can work for any number of people; everyone would get exactly two votes. Don't know if its useful, but it makes scum nominate who we want them to and gives us a way to turn this into a normal game.
I read it alright, it just didn't make any sense. Honestly, just how stupid do you think this town is? Scum could only ever do that if everyone else were a bunch of retards.MM wrote:Did you even read the second sentence of my post? Revealing nominations seems to me like a tool which scum could use to orchestrate a mislynch based on nominatory overlap. I'm pretty sure I made that really, really obvious.
Look who's talking about playing into the mafia's hands... Just tell us your nominations already,MM wrote:Besides, losing a townie is always something to lose, as is playing into scumgambits. Unvote, Vote: Raging Rabbitit doesn't hurt the town in any way.
That's extremely far fetched.MM wrote:@Jack: I meant it in the sense that he was cueing his scumbuddies to distance so they could then implement what I mentioned above.
Very bad posting, actually. Weren't you the one who just suggested forcing people to stateGhyrt wrote:Goodpostingfuturenominations? Why would you disagree with your own logic aboutpastones?
:goodposting:Jack wrote:I see. But I give the town a bit more credit than that, it's not like we're going to jump on the first person to post a nomination that belies the results.
True, but but forcing them to say everything in advance would still annoy them considerably.Jack wrote:Don't think so, the scum can nominate whoever and then claim they nominated the chosen two.
It's not gamebreaking, but still a good strategy imo.Ghyrt wrote:Yeah, I forgot to account for the fact that we would know who would have messed it up. Come to think of it, this wouldn't even work if there were only one scum becuase everyone has two nominations.
Must've misunderstood you somewhere, I thought "voting" on nominations was exactly your suggestion from before. If you were talking about intentional ties, that's indeed terribly easy for scum to fuck up.Ghyrt wrote:In fact, if you look at this way, scum has a very high chance of making only townies get nominated. Looks like it makes sense to vote on nominations during the day
That's the second time you suggested sacrifising yourself for the town now. Normally I wouldn't mind that all that much, but you obviously have the best grasp of the game mechanic so far and are therefore somewhat of an asset to the town. Having yourself randomly lynched is generally downright stupid since you're only sure of your own innocence, but given the circumstaces it's even stupider. You're either being unnecessarily altruistic or trying to give us the illusion you're willing to sacrifice yourself for the town to further prove your innocence since you know we won't let that happen.Skruffs wrote:As far as I can see, and for my own reasons that will remain suspiciously clandestine until I get roman and yellow's nominateoins, so far, everyone who's nominated today looks pretty clear. So I'll probably be offering myself up to be lynched But that can wait.
IMM wrote:Seriously, people. Look at RR's posts closely; he's just not RIGHT.stronglydislike this kind of unexplained ad hominem. You are thus far clearly the scummiest person as far as I'm concerned and I sincerely regret not being able to vote you.
Confim IGMEOY: MM.
In other news, the so far very high level of activity and everyone's annoying tendency to keep saying interesting things are making it extremely difficult for me to keep up my habit of replying to anything I consider noteworthy. I may have to stop this in the future.-
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Raging Rabbit Mafia Scum
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:goodposting:Jack wrote:Is this the only response you have to that big post? For that matter, if you think naming our nominations will lead to mislynch why did you name yours?
(This obvious contradiction is the reason I didn't apologize for my mistake or take back my attack, TCS, if that's what bothering you.)-
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It is bad, but not for your reasons. It's bad because it'd be all too easy for scum to fuck up our math and basically force a two-nominees day, which is bad because we want as many people up for lynching as possible to keep our options open.DW wrote:I think voting to make everybody tie is a bad ideal.
You should give the town a bit more credit, we won't be distracted that easily. Also, they can still "divert attention" by throwing suspicion on townies who aren't up for a lynch (like I did with MM, only I'm not scum, he probably isn't a townie, and I have good reasons ).DW wrote:This nomination mechanic gives the town the abillity to only make eligible poeple that they believe are scumie. It makes it tougher for scum to divert attention to townies, because there are less townies to choose from.
PutsDW wrote:It also puts a lot of pressure on scum to convince us they are town.lesspressure, if anything. When you aren't eligible for a lynch, you can work a bit less on looking innocent and a bit more on making others look guilty.
Today it's obviously a huge pain in the ass, but it generally favors scum in the future as well imo. Good thing is, if we keep forcing them to state nominations in advance, than the more they'll try to manipulate the system the closer we get to pinpointing them through their manipulations.DW wrote:Today the mechanic is a hindrince because the nominations were completly random from the town side. Tomorow the mechanic has the potential to be a huge advantage, assuming that the town scum reads are accurate. Put the whole group up exposes everyone and since everybody is up there is more chance for the scum to divert the lynch to townies.
I don't think we need to have a general conscious, just force everyone to say who they're gonna nominate so scum would have a harder time lying about it.DW wrote:I also think that the town should try to decide as a whole who is the scumiess before putting the final votes on and going to night.
Go you!DW wrote:Fos: Maz Medias and Ghyrt I think both of their play has been very scumie and using very contradictoy logic. They say one thing and seem to half contradict it the next.
Out of the four poeple we can vote for I don't have any good reads, but I do think the Rabbit is town though.
I Got My Eye On You. Basically telling him that even though I'm unable to lynch his butt atm, I don't plan on forgetting him anytime soon.DW wrote:Oh and what does IGMEOY mean?-
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I've been doing that quite a lot if you haven't noticed how active I am, just didn't think it worth my time to doublecheck if he shared his nominations since his logic clearly implies he shouldn't have.JDodge wrote:FoS: Raging Rabbit for being angry with Maz for not sharing his nominations when he already did. You might try reading people's posts.
I actually suspect him more now that I've realized my mistake, since his course of action is ideal for scum - first he shares his nominations on the spot so he won't get any bad attention for not being helpful, than he uses lameass logic to try to convice others not to share theirs so the town won't be able to gain any information (the only way to possibly figure out who lied is to have everyone's nomination accounted for, except obviously poor Firecoal).-
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I'm unfortunately not infallible, and did make a mistake. It was mostly a cause of his contradiction, though.JDodge wrote:Logic would imply that you would look at facts beforehand.
But why would anyone pro townJDodge wrote:Without all of the facts, anyone can manipulate the results to make it look like someone is scum. We would need to know exactly who everyone nominated.wantto manipulate the results?-
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That indeed makes it a lot more difficult for us to gain information from this, but Skruffs seems to know how and again it just doesn't hurt us in any way.JDodge wrote:We need to know who everyone nominated, including Fircoal, in order to come to a conclusion.
Anyone can allocate those two nominating votes that Fircoal had to where they wish in order to change any information we'd get out of it.
What attack me so hard for "misrepresenting" your play if you admit it was misleading and contradictory, then?MM wrote:I revealed my nominations before I really started railing against revelation of nominations. I'll be the first to admit that I sort of play by the seat of my pants; I didn't realize that it was a bad idea until after I'd already played in to it.-
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I personally think we should be giving ourselves a little credit here. Every day should end with everyone saying who they're gonna nominate tommorow, and if the resuts prove "too easy to manipulate" we simply won't lynch anyone because of them. Discounting possible extra information just for fear it can potentially be misleading isn't too smart, imo. Also, I still want to hear what made you go all martyr-y earlier.Skruffs wrote:I'm not claiming to know how, at all. I"m not infallible. I'm going to present what I think and then we can talk about it, and someone else can counterpresent what they think.
Only we're not stupid, see my earlier point.JDodge wrote:Except for potentially set up an innocent for a lynch.
No, it won't.TCS wrote:Well of course revealing the nominations on future days would be a mistake...
That's the 3rd time you're being martyr-y. Just doesn't sit right with me.Skruffs wrote:...which is why I don't mind being lynched today...
I admit I didn't think of a nomination power role, but I trust them enough to avoid being obvious. Mason group is really neglectible, I think they'd know not to nominate the same people day 1. I still think our possible huge pros far outweigh the cons.Romanus wrote:The reason I don't like everyone giving up nominations is for the simple fact that there might be a mason group or power role based on the nominations. Would you like to put a target on that person's back for the mafia?
MM wrote:Blantantly misrepresenting somebody just because they've changed their minds on a topic is by no means permissable.
Err... :wellposting:Jack wrote:he forgot. Jaysus.
Huh? Do you like, have a bunny vendetta or something?Romanus wrote:Fine, I nominated Raging Rabbit twice
Seriously though, huh?
I didn't bother to check because I figured you wouldn't cotradict yourself this obviously without even saying you changed your mind, and when I realized you did do it made me suspect you that much more. You areMM wrote:He didn't bother to check, and then tried to excuse his laziness by attacking me further.soclutching at straws here.-
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Rule 10 makes me give him the benefit of the doubt for now, but if he could've avoided nominating the same guy twice he reallly should've.Skruffs wrote:
And then later...GreenLiquid wrote:The really long rules that outline everything are below. Here's a quick summaray: everyone sends in two different players each night as nominations. These are added to a tally. The two players with the most votes will be eligible to be lynched the following day. Ties will change this, so if there's for example a three way tie for first, then all three will be on the block for the following day. You may be interested in reading the rules below to learn the 'special cases.'
But then again...GreenLiquid wrote:NOMINATION RULES
1- In addition to standard night actions, each player MUST select two different people to be voted for nomination the next day.
2- The two players with the most nominations votes will be eligible lynch candidates the next day. If there is a two-way tie for most votes, both tied will be on the block. If there’s a three or more way tie, all tied players are on the block, with an exception which I’ll add later. If there’s a leader, but then players tied for second, the leader and all tied for second players are added to the block.
3- The exception: no more than half of the town can be nominated. If 6 are alive, at max three can be nominated. Ditto for seven. If there’s more than the max people nominated in a tie scenario, nominees out of the tied players will be randomly selected. Only catch: with three alive, two is the maximum.GreenLiquid wrote:10- And of course, the exceptions rule. There’s an exception to every rule, and these rules are included. Based on certain game mechanics and whatnot, there is a chance that there may be exceptions, additions, or exemptions to these rules. If something I say in thread or by PM conflicts with these rules, whatever I said will most likely be correct. These rules were designed to be uniform to most games I run and as such may not accurately represent all role mechanics, so read what I have to say in thread and in your role PM carefully. Your diligence will be rewarded.-
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I can tell you're good with numbers, that's exactly why I want to keep you around. The general conseous (which I agree with) seems to be that you're the most valuable player atm, and no way are we going to lynch you in the case of a random lynch. That makes me wonder why you keep suggesting to sacrifice yourself when you know we'll never take you up on it, which could very well be a scummy attempt to further prove your innocence by showing us how willing you are to be lynched.Skruffs wrote:If you think I'm scummy for being martyry, than lynch me, problem solved but wait until we go through the numbers first. I'm good with numbers.-
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I'm honestly impressed with how completely you managed to miss my point there.Ghyrt wrote:A busing I sense. First you say he's scummy, then you contradict yourself by saying he's valuable. Looks like you tried to distance yourselves from each other then changed your plan. FoS: Raging Rabbit, Skruffs
IGM other EOY: Ghyrt.
JDodge wrote:You're clutching at straws, too. Assumption is a fatal flaw in any arguement.Dude, I was too lazy to unnecessarily check after replying to everything for like half an hour. It made perfect sense, not stating nominations goes hand in hand with his stance.
I'm ok with them too, and pretty sure Skruff's better than either of us. And of course numbers matter here. Like, duh...JDodge wrote:I'm good with numbers too. That would be relevant if numbers actually mattered in this situation.-
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Ignoring information we could easily gain from nomination patterns and essentially turning this game into Limited Lynch Mafia would really make the scum's day.JDodge wrote:This setup is misleading; it's not about deducing information from nominations, it's about the town working as a collective towards a favorable outcome.
I might also point out that The Town Working as a Collective Towards a Favorable Outcome, while certainly an admirable thing for any Communist party to say, isn't an actual strategy.
Getting real tired of agreeing with you here.Jack wrote:About numbers...it's addition and subtraction here. You don't need to be a genius to see that 2 <4.
(Skruffs does seem to have more complex ways of dealing with numbers up his sleeve, though.)-
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Right. That post does feel somewhat pro townish, but whyRomanus wrote:So, by saying we shouldn't give out the nominations, then stating there might be a nomination-type power role, then coming out and pretty much telling you that I have a nomination-type power role, this is all evidence of being scummy.
Whatever.
And I used my ability in order to try and get us to as few people as possible nominated, I thought it would be better for the town with fewer nominations.
again
whateveron earthwould you want us to have fewer nominees? (Also, why me?!?)
What exactlyisyour power role, btw? Are you just able to nominate the same guy twice?-
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ButJDodge wrote:Information we could easily gain from nomination patterns is not always correct.additional info doesn't hurt us in any way. I'm getting tired of saying that.
That'd probably explain what you're doing on an abandoned island. Mod, do I get bonus points for revealing his secret?JDodge wrote:Glad you think I'm a communist. I've been working hard on that.
While I appreciate your politeness, I'd really like you to explain the logic behid you marty-ish tendencies, who look very scummy to me atm.Skruffs wrote:Thanks bunny!
This makes me think you might've nominated youself and are interested in getting lynched for some reason.Skruffs wrote:I'm going to take a gander and say that yellow bounder voted for me once, adn fircoal voted for me once.
Mod, seriously this time, are you allowed to nominate yourself?
Don't you find it suspicious he was aiming for fewer nominees, though?Skruffs wrote:Sorry for being suspicious of you romanus, but to be honest, you should have outright said it rather than phrasing things in such a way to sound like that... I thought you were scum who wasn't paying attentino to the rules and was lying.-
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JDodge wrote:Additional info can be misleading.This town isn't a bunch of idiots, and is perfectly capable of deciding whether or not certain info is misleading. It's rather easier to do that after actually having said info, though.
Don't you dare weasel your way out of this one, Commie scum!JDodge wrote:No, I think it was the extreme Libertarianism that caused that.-
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Not only was he under no pressure of votes, everyone seemed the find him the most pro town-ish.Jack wrote:I've seen it done by both town and scum. I haven't played with skruffs before so I can't really say.
I don't think I've seen anyone offer themselves without a few votes on them though. Could be scumtactic, I'm certainly leaning to a cheesefan lynch for today (skruffs isn't risking much), but I don't think we should make too much out of it.
I personally favor JDodge thus far, for a steady stream of not-too-logical plays. Skruffs may be scummier for the martyr thing alone but I prefer keeping him alive atm since he's gonna have to keep being an asset to the town if he wants to look consistent. Cheesefan's completely neutral in
my book.
Not gonna vote yet, though, no reason to start pushing for the day to end before we're all finished figuring out our nomination policy.-
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My sincere apologies for not being bothered to check back right now. A not necessarily comprehensive list:Ghyrt wrote:@Raging Rabbit: What specifically do you find unlogical about JDodge? To me, his posts seem objective and non-commital.
First of all, the "let's make this game Limited Lynch Mafia, we can't possibly risk mislynching" argument he's been pushing pretty hard sucks bad and hurts the town. Second, I strongly dislike his ad homini-cious "There's just obviously somethingabout Raging Rabbit, can't you people see it?!" post. Third, I dislike the contradiciton between his earlier sharing his nominations to his current "no misleading info" BS - while it's certainly possible for people the change their minds, I just don't get why he never bothered to say he's changed his mind IIRC, and his earlier attack on me for missing his contradicition makes no sense.WRONG
Again I'm not gonna check back atm, but I seem to recall quite a few people other than me commenting on Skruffs' pro-townishness. Also, I just think that unless his way of discerning information from the nominations list proves a complete dud, he's pretty objectively the most useful player atm.Skruffs wrote: Why are you asserting that there is a general consesus that Skruffs is useful?
You and me both, bud.DW wrote:My head hearts with the rapid rate of posting.
How can you possibly suspect the infallible RagingRabbit?! (Seriously though, why?)DW wrote:I think out of the four poeple we can vote for it should not be skruffs or RagingRabbit.
That's certainly the bunny consensus, but I'd certainly like to hear some non-bunny opinions on this.DW wrote:So is the concensus we should or should discuss are nominations for tomorow?
Sorry, I'm having enough trouble dealing with the social stereotypes of being cross eyed as it is. A three eyed cross eye should seriously like never ever leave his house.DW wrote:Raging Rabbit Can I get you to open up your third eye and put it on me?-
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Damn, I'm such an idiot.JDodge wrote:I'm worried that people might use the information incorrectly. What we stand to lose from people manipulating the results to their favor outweighs what we can gain from having said info.
I changed my mind; is that illegal now?My former list refers to MM, not JDodge. I find it odd you didn't notice that yourself, though.
Ghyrt luv, about JDodge - it's just a stream of possibly-town-but-nonetheless-wrong stuff. He's not that much below neutral in my book, I just wanted to say which way I was leaning.
I would say the math whizz.JDodge wrote:I can't agree that any player is any more useful than the other at the moment.-
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I would say you should probably back that up somehow.JDodge wrote:I would say the same about everything you've said thus far.
I would say you really need to reserve your judgment about said math until you actually have it.JDodge wrote:I would say that the math will be misleading and easily manipulated.-
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Bull. In normal games, it's possible to switch the top lynch candidates in the process of a day. The mafia also has a much harder time manipulating said top candidates. Ignoring the option of gaining additional info from the nomination system is essentially choosing to play Limited Lynch Mafia.MM wrote:When have I made this the specific argument? The game's setup allows for the initial narrowing of the lynch candidates to made at night and with greater flexibility. It is, in practice, going to work out the same as putting everybody up on the block and then discussing the top two or three bandwagons, which is what almost always happens in a normal Day anyway.
That doesn't make that post any less ad homin-icous. As I already explained, I ignored that sentence because it didn't make any sense.MM wrote:Which was made immediately after I pointing out a pretty glaring bullshit post ("Why the fuck do you care?") that I wanted response to.
Next time, if you change your mind this completely, it'll probably be worth it to actually bother to say that, so you won't be suspected for contradicting yourself. If you choose not to, you may want to be more understanding of people who don't continually check back for severe contradictions. Said people may have actually forgotten your earlier post and probably aren't trying to blatantly misrepresent you.MM wrote: Next time I'll just state all my positions on every issue at the start of every day, place my vote, and not check in again until night. Will that be more consistent?
Oh, right. Yay me. I have this annoying tendency to sometimes miss important pesky little words such as "not".MM wrote:You realize he said it should NOT be you, right?
Two fucking reasons:MM wrote:Why are you getting so upset - or, to use your own words, why the fuck do you care?
1. I was fucking being fucking sarcastic.
2. I generally fucking prefer it for everyone to fucking explain every fucking play, especially when said fucking play specifically applies to me.
It's not just a knack, it's somewhat intentional. I definitely disagree they don't lead anywhere, though. I think they make tons of information available to the careful reader, and give scum many and more chances to fuck up.Cheesefan wrote:Hmmm RR I say you have a knak of getting into long and winding convos that dont lead anywhere.
I do like to believe I'm capable of stopping said "winding convos" when they really aren't going anywhere, for example my current lack of reply to JDodge or the current situation in another game of ours with somone whose name rhymes with Magneto.
Also, don't you find me amusing anymore?!-
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Yay me.Cheesefan wrote:I still find you amusing
I don't see exactly what "destination" you're talking about. What I'm attempting to do is just what you said - to give the town lots of info through the "journey". I never aim to make scum confess or vote themselves, if that's what you mean.Cheesefan wrote:And by not going anywhere i mean that they usually end up exacly where they left off.
But i agree that they give information but just by the journey not by the destinaton
Sorry for making that unclear
Thanks.JDodge wrote:The first part is somewhat true.
Cheesefan's the only one who knows what I'm talking about, and he somewhat started it by mentioning my "knack".Don't reference ongoing games.
You never claimed to in the first place.JDodge wrote:I don't find you amusing anymore either.-
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Err... :terrible, terrible, really really bad posting:Jack wrote: If we completely ignore the nominations I have a feeling we'll end up with our lynch candidates being chosen by the mafia most of the time.
(Seriously man, do you ever get tired of being right?)
Very understandable, though I think it's worth the effort.DW wrote:Right the journey is making me very haggard, probably because I also need some sleep.
I'll take that as a compliment. What exactly does "Skruffs" mean, incidentally?DW wrote: also agree that cheesefan should say more since he is the only nominee not posting a whole lot, but it is kinda hard to keep up with the pace of some other four legged critters.
What about him? I'm in other games with him, he's acting more or less the same thus far.Jack wrote:I think there are more important things we could talk about. Cheesefan for example.-
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Do try to post more opinions, though, loverboy. This isn't looking too pro town-ish to the people who don't know you, and would probably be useful in general.Cheesefan wrote:Im not getting many scummish vibes from any of the nominees ... yet
It's perfectly consistent with his playstyle, and there's no reason for him to fake claim. I believe he nominated me twice all right, I just have my doubts he's also town. That role is way more powerful in the hands of scum anyways.Romanus wrote:As for Romanus
I dont belive his claim.-
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I don't think we should only concentrate on the nominees unless we get deadlined or something. My top 3 suspects thus far aren't among the nominees, and there's know reason they shouldn't bother to defend themselves.Cheesefan wrote:Anyway lets get back to the matter at hand
On that note,Romanusm'boy, exactly what made you want to make the nominees number smaller by abusing the poor little bunny?
Me. No, wait!Cheesefan wrote:Me, you, Skuffs or the dog?
I'm leaning towards the dog atm, but am nowhere near coming to a decision.
Finally! I, like,Jack wrote:But his power makes more sense as a pro town power than a mafia power, seems like it's supposed to counterbalance the mafia's coordination abilities.sodisagree with you it just can't be put into words. Logic? I call that flapdoodle. This post is more wrong than the average American is fat.
(In case anyone didn't get that, I agree with Cheesefan.)-
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No real way to argue with that other than saying I'm not all that inclined to believe you, so whatever.Romanus wrote:I've never played in a game like this before, so I thought, without any experience, that having a fewer number on day one would be better. Not really sure why, but it was a judgment call. Now, since I am outed, the town can at least give me suggestions on how to use this power.
Whatexactlydoes your power role do, incidentally?
That is such a huge scumtell. Tricks aren't for kids, tricks can be dangerous and should only be attempted by responsible adults.Ghyrt wrote:Silly Rabbit.
Well, that depends. If by balanced you mean "weak to the point of uselessness", I completely agree.Ghyrt wrote:I kinda agree with Jack on this one. Romanus' supposed role would be more balanced in the hands of the town.-
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Oh. That's not outguessing anyone, then, it'd be much stronger in hands of mafia. Period. Quite a misrepresentation, too.JDodge wrote:I'm sorry, can you say that again? I can't see what you're saying.
It's not outguessing the mod because we're arguing which side it'd be stronger for, which is obviously mafia. That's not to say Romanus is 100% mafia our anything, just that it's a wierd role for pro town to have and I find it odd he chose both to use it to get fewer people nominated and now refuses to share his full abilities with us.
You should generally back up strong statements such as that with, like, arguments and stuff.Ronamus wrote:Your wild flailing attacks are stinking up the place.
No. I want to know what your full abilities are, since your current abilities make no sense for a pro town role, and you're a claimed power role and therefore preferred kill target if you really aren't scum anyways.Romanus wrote:You want to know the extant of my powers, why, so you know whether or not it is worth trying to kill me tonight?
Fuck, can't vote: Romanus-
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You're technically right, so I'll rephrase: I consider "outguessing the mod" a type of crap logic, which only applies to cases when you don't really have any idea what the mod would do. Saying Romanus' role is stronger in the hands of mafia is downright true. Saying that it's therefore more likely than otherwise to be a mafia role is technically also "2nd guessing", but it's a very informed guess backed up by common sense.Jack wrote:*is confused*
2nd guessing the mod means assuming the mod would have done something a particular way e.g. "there's a doc in this game so there must be a cop". Making assumptions about Romanus's role is 2nd guessing the mod, we have no way of knowing if the mod would have given it to a pro town player or to a scum player. You can't say for sure what the mod would do.
He should save the trouble of thinking about that 'till after we're finished with Skruffs' math and decided on today's lynch. I may also point out he won't be able to nominate me if he successfully gets me lyched, and that I'm really not afraid of being nominated twice a night of that's what it takes to lynch who I currently consider the scummiest player.Jack wrote:He could also be wondering whether to nominate you tonight, remember.
When did he ever look pro town?Jack wrote:Although I will say he doesn't look as pro-town as he did earlier.-
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Oh. You're once again right, then. I don't see any point in limiting are discussion to the nominees in our current situation.Jack wrote:Those last two quotes were addressed to Romanus.
But it's not unreasonably strong in the hands of mafia, just quite useful and makes perfect sense. It does very little to no good for town, though, and makes little sense flavorwise imo.Jack wrote:I don't see the "role is more powerful in hands of mafia-->therefore more likely to be mafia role" connection at all. Giving weak roles to the town is common. Giving the mafia extra powers is I believe less so.
Also, his aiming for fewer candidates still really doens't sit well with me depite his claim of ignorance.-
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Actually, yes. But Romanus never treated his role as a drawback. He was all "Look at me, I'm a POWER ROLE!" IIRC.Cheesefan wrote:
And if he can only vote for one person it is acually bad for the townRaging Rabbit wrote: But it's not unreasonably strong in the hands of mafia, just quite useful and makes perfect sense. It does very little to no good for town, though, and makes little sense flavorwise imo.-
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Easy. He saw we were gonna get nominations from everyone regardless of his earlier efforts, and decided he'd look less scummy by just telling us the truth than by having to deal with a fair amount of the suspicion for the inconsistencies.Jack wrote:Why would Romanus claim the power as scum though?
That'd also explain why he nominatedme. Scum.-
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It's somewhat like that, yes, only the difference is way, way bigger, Romanus treats himself as a power role rather than a drawback which it sorta is if he's really pro town, and I have other reasons for finding him suspicious if you'll bother reading back.JDodge wrote:Of course! That's like saying that because a roleblocker is more often a scum ability than a town ability, that said roleblockermustbe scum!-
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