Mini 408 - EXiLE Mafia, MOD ABANDONED

[Raging Rabbit]

Guys, please try to think this through here. By "random" I didn't mean meaningless, I meant "anarchy". We have no idea how easy we make life for the mafia, or how much they'll be able to fuck us up. It leaves too much to pure luck, basically.

My method, however, pretty much guarantees that

we get at least 2 out of our 3 most suspicious people up for lynching tomorrow.

And by choosing which of our 3 suspects to remove as an option, the mafia's basically giving us more free information. That's better than anarchy in my book. Yay institutions!

[JDodge]

I refuse to abide by someone telling me how to use my nominations.

[Cheesefan]

I refuse to abide by someone telling me how to use my nominations.

Agreed and i find RR scummy for trying so hard to do so.

[Raging Rabbit]

I refuse to abide by someone telling me how to use my nominations.

You're thinking very anti-town, then.


Skruffs m'boy, just a friendly reminder that you'll eventually have to explain to us what makes you so very eager to get yourself lynched, and the sooner the better imho.

[JDodge]

I refuse to abide by someone telling me how to use my nominations.

You're thinking very anti-town, then.

You're thinking of ways to lead us into a trap.

[Raging Rabbit]

I refuse to abide by someone telling me how to use my nominations.

You're thinking very anti-town, then.

You're thinking of ways to lead us into a trap.

Show me what makes me wrong, then, instead of making empty statements.

[JDodge]

I refuse to abide by someone telling me how to use my nominations.

You're thinking very anti-town, then.

You're thinking of ways to lead us into a trap.

Show me what makes me wrong, then, instead of making empty statements.

Already have.

[Raging Rabbit]

Quote, please.

[JDodge]

JDawg, lets try using math here:

Lets assume we lynch an innocent, worst case scenario an' all. We still have 11 people, with a maximum of 3 in a single scum group. I was an idiot before, a total of 22 nominations means an 8-7-7 split. Please explain how the scum could ever possibly fuck up such a thing under anything but the most extreme circumstances. If you choose to assume such circustances, please explain how the 3 nominee system makes it easier for them to fuck up than just randomizing everything.

Please don't answer this with general statements, I really feel this warrants actual math.

Let's call those votes A, B, and C.

You have 8 "A"s, 7 "B"s, 7 "C"s.

Now, let's assume for the sake of this that the three mafia members happen to get AB, AC, and BC. They could all switch to AB, which would cause this:

9 As,
8 Bs,
5 Cs.

Get it?

I would also like you to note that I refuse to participate in this, which changes the dynamics severely. Same with anyone else who refuses.

[Romanus]

My power is meaningless if I let someone else, who may be scum, dictate what is going to happen. There are too many good things that happen for the scum under this plan. Why nightkill someone who is up for Lynch tomorrow? There are other problems that I see in this as well, but since there are at least a few people who are refusing to cooperate, it isn't going to work, and is now, a moot point. Arguing about it any further is a red herring that the scum can stay out of and let us rip each other apart with.

[Raging Rabbit]

My power is meaningless if I let someone else, who may be scum, dictate what is going to happen.

Your power is pretty meaningless anyway, assuming you're pro town. Also, I'm not asking for supreme power here or anything, I'm asking for the

town

to decide on 3 people.

Why nightkill someone who is up for Lynch tomorrow?

No real reason. Good for us. Yay.

There are other problems that I see in this as well

.

Empty statement.

but since there are at least a few people who are refusing to cooperate, it isn't going to work, and is now, a moot point. Arguing about it any further is a red herring that the scum can stay out of and let us rip each other apart with.

Appeal to Group. Truth isn't democratic.

[JDodge]

Why nightkill someone who is up for Lynch tomorrow?

No real reason. Good for us. Yay.

but since there are at least a few people who are refusing to cooperate, it isn't going to work, and is now, a moot point. Arguing about it any further is a red herring that the scum can stay out of and let us rip each other apart with.

Appeal to Group. Truth isn't democratic.

How is getting one of the more pro-town people NK'd "Good for us"?

He's right, and that isn't an Appeal to Group situation.

[Skruffs]

As of right now, the scum are IN our town, killin our dudez. So they're going to work to make sure they don't get nominated in the morning.

The concept behind not sharing your nominations is because it then comes down to each person to nominate who they actually feel is the most scummy. The idea being is if mafia don't know who's going to nominate who, they'll have to nominate people themselves. This kind of forces every townie to make calculated guesses, thinking for themselves who is scum and who isn't. Which can be good.

In the end, we will have to agree before we lynch who we are going to collectively, as a group, nominate. If one of them get nightkilled, it is as bunny said: one less suspicious person. There's not going to be a way to foolproofedly determine who nominated who. We're going to have to hope. And if scum are really good at not looking suspicious, then... we're going to have to rely on any doctor and cop roles to help us out.

[Romanus]

Nothing said above is any different than any other mafia game.

We, the people of this town, all have the same power, the vote, and in this case, the nomination. Deciding beforehand, making people nominate this or that person, that takes our power away. If we as a town can't find the scum, then we can't find the scum, we lose, etc, etc, etc. No different than any other game

To spell it out more clearly:

If we decide to nominate A B and C and let everyone know before hand, then the scum are not going to NK A B or C, especially if one of A B or C is scum. This lessens the town's power and give the scum more.

As for there being other bad things, that is not an empty statement:

There are other bad things, good for scum, that can and will happen with the scum knowing what is going on before we go to bed. Also, I would like to give the town power roles the opportunity to do what ever it is they do. Declaring beforehand and what not only takes away from the power roles we as a town have. What the hell good is a mason group if we just decide who to nominate before night?

I will reveal my nominations the next day, and will discuss who I may nominate tonight, but I will not declare my absolute intentions, nor will I obey what the "majority" tells me I should do.

Truth may not be democratic and neither is my power or anybody else's.

Finally, there is no way for the entire town to consolidate power, because we know for a fact that part of the town is working to sabotage us. This automatically means that whatever system we seek to set up is flawed and only benefits those who wish to sabotage it.

I believe the same info can be gained from revealing our nominations in the morning without giving away ourselves the night before.

[Raging Rabbit]

How is getting one of the more pro-town people NK'd "Good for us"?

Because the mafia doesn't want to kill any of the suspicious people up for a lynch and make our next day choice easier, they'd rather aim for the more innocent looking people.

He's right, and that isn't an Appeal to Group situation.

There are other problems that I see in this as well, but since there are at least a few people who are refusing to cooperate, it isn't going to work, and is now, a moot point. Arguing about it any further is a red herring that the scum can stay out of and let us rip each other apart with.

Classic Appeal to Group. "Well, I have tons of other valid points too, but since others don't seem to agree with you atm you're obviously wrong and should stfu". Conformist slut.

The idea being is if mafia don't know who's going to nominate who, they'll have to nominate people themselves.

Huh? They

want

to nominate people themselves. My system just makes it that much harder for them to fuck up our lynch options, and leaves a whole lot less to pure chance.

In the end, we will have to agree before we lynch who we are going to collectively, as a group, nominate.

So you do agree? Good.

Nothing said above is any different than any other mafia game.

If you want to just role the dice and basically choose to play Limited Lynch Mafia, sure.

We, the people of this town

You're basically shouthing "I'M PRO TOWN!" here. Why?

Deciding beforehand, making people nominate this or that person, that takes our power away.

That only takes the

randomness

away.

If we decide to nominate A B and C and let everyone know before hand, then the scum are not going to NK A B or C, especially if one of A B or C is scum. This lessens the town's power and give the scum more.

.

A, B and C probably look suspicious enough for scum not to NK them anyway. Also, it's by far the best worst case scenario.

Also,

I

would like to give the town power roles the opportunity to do what ever it is they do.

Why keep advertising your pro towniness, oh great self proclaimed power role guy?

Declaring beforehand and what not only takes away from the power roles we as a town have. What the hell good is a mason group if we just decide who to nominate before night?

Err.. Clearing people? I don't see how that changes much of anything.

nor will I obey what the "majority" tells me I should do.

If the town as a whole decides to go for that tactic and you choose to flat out refuse, all the more reason for us to want you dead first.

Truth may not be democratic and neither is my power or anybody else's.

[/egotrip]

Finally, there is no way for the entire town to consolidate power, because we know for a fact that part of the town is working to sabotage us. This automatically means that whatever system we seek to set up is flawed and only benefits those who wish to sabotage it.

1. Paranoid, much? Let the town judge what's good and what's not for ourselves rather than shout "SABOTAGE!"
2. "Anarchy" is just as much a chosen system as mine is, only more intuitive. Can't it also be set into place by evil anti town culprits?

I believe the same info can be gained from revealing our nominations in the morning without giving away ourselves the night before.

I you want the wrong people to get nominated and the scum to have an easier time lying, sure.


Romanus, try looking at it this way - If I would offer you the option of everyone voting for the guy they suspect the most during the night, than random lynch the following day based on who got the most votes, what would you say? Wouldn't you think that makes it much easier for the mafia to set up the wrong lynches?

[Romanus]

No more so than in a regular game.

You are acting as if we are just going to roll dice to see who to lynch tomorrow and the mafia is the only people with brains enough to actually come up with a plan.

If we don't reveal anything till morning, the most suspicious people will be up for lynch. Just like in a normal game, the most suspicious people get lynched.

Oh, and namecalling and what not, does nobody any good. I had valid points throughout my post and you know it. I don't know what your problem is.

than random lynch the following day based on who got the most votes

The person with the most votes gets randomly lynched?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!??!??!?!
Are you a retard??? Most votes means most votes, not random. Random is a roll of the dice. Nothing, from page 2 or so on is based on anything random. Everything is based on best guesses and information. Also, it is not Anarchy, any more than any other mafia game. A vig using his powers, that is anarchy. Do you think the scum should have a say in when and who the vig uses the powers on? Never.

[Raging Rabbit]

If we don't reveal anything till morning, the most suspicious people will be up for lynch. Just like in a normal game, the most suspicious people get lynched.

If we don't decide in advance on who the most suspicious people are, the mafia's gonna have a lot easier time in deciding that for us.

Oh, and namecalling and what not, does nobody any good. I had valid points throughout my post and you know it. I don't know what your problem is.

I'm just so fucking sick of people playing that trick with every second post of mine, I really don't feel like apologizing atm.

NONE OF MY POSTS IS INTENDED TO BE THE LEAST BIT INSULTING. SARCASM ISN'T NAMECALLING. STOP TAKING ME FOR SOME SORT OF PRETENIOUS ASSHOLE.

The person with the most votes gets randomly lynched?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!??!??!?!

C'mon, you know what I meant. In a normal game, people can change their votes and compromise to make sure that the most suspicious person (the closest to a

consensus

) gets lynched. In Night Mafia, we can't do that and the mafia has an easier time manipulating majority.

Random is a roll of the dice.

"Anarchy" isn't purely random, true. It's (way)

more

random than what I'm trying to propose, though, and randomness is a big no no.

oh, and btw:

Are you a retard???

Yup, namecalling's bad. Wasn't any offense intended in my last post, though, but I'm not that sure about your response.

[Skruffs]

This whole post is interesting, I'll refer to my specific part later, but basically.. I notice you go through two phases... a helpful phase and a distracting phase. This whole pose was from your 'distracting' phase. I'm going to go back and see what people are talking abuot before you start doing this silly stuff, as compared to when you are talking helpfully. This whole post.. not helpful. Taking smidgens of poeple's posts and commenting on them, with ten or more, does nothing. It's interesting that you posted it right after ROmanus said that it's a red herring that scum will use to cause town to fight each other. Hmm. Anyways...

The idea being is if mafia don't know who's going to nominate who, they'll have to nominate people themselves.

Huh? They

want

to nominate people themselves. My system just makes it that much harder for them to fuck up our lynch options, and leaves a whole lot less to pure chance.

In the end, we will have to agree before we lynch who we are going to collectively, as a group, nominate.

So you do agree? Good.

First quote : You took that out of context. "

The concept behind not sharing your nominations is because it then comes down to each person to nominate who they actually feel is the most scummy. The idea being is if mafia don't know who's going to nominate who, they'll have to nominate people themselves. This kind of forces every townie to make calculated guesses, thinking for themselves who is scum and who isn't. Which can be good.

What I am saying is that mafia will have to 'choose themselves' who they want to nominate vs knowing what the town is doing and following along with them, and then hope that a few other people are also voting them.

Second quote : My sentence said that Town was going to have to agree on who they were going to nominate the next day. You asked/inferred that I agreed. With what? If you were to assume I was agreeing with something based on the sentence you quoted, it would be that I thought that tommorrow's nominations were a good choice. Since that hasn't been discussed at all, there is absolutely nothing to agree with. If you were asking "Do you agree that town will have to agree on them" then you should have asked that. This is where your quotes fail, because you take only a bit out, which misinterprets what they are saying, and then when you reply, it looks like you are twisting wrods around, misconstruing what is said, or putting words in other people's mouths. You are more than welcome to do things your own way but if people get ruffled by it, you can't then tell them to stop, because that's them reacting to you. This is meant as helpful criticism.

My method, however, pretty much guarantees that

we get at least 2 out of our 3 most suspicious people up for lynching tomorrow.

Except it doesn't, because those suspects and the mafia can coup it.


Anyways, I think we should nominate Dean. Jack defended him, and then he bussed Jack.

[Romanus]

It is amazing; You are amazing. The way you can take whatever you want out of context and turn it to say things that it didn't say in the first place.

I also love how you can emotionally attack someone, and after they respond in kind, you go all stoic.

What I still can't figure is why you said no one likes playing with you. I mean, I can't see any reason at all for not wanting you in a game.

Oh, that is sarcasm, which, by your standards, are not insults.

Wow.

[Raging Rabbit]

It is amazing; You are amazing. The way you can take whatever you want out of context and turn it to say things that it didn't say in the first place.

I also love how you can emotionally attack someone, and after they respond in kind, you go all stoic.

What I still can't figure is why you said no one likes playing with you. I mean, I can't see any reason at all for not wanting you in a game.

Oh, that is sarcasm, which, by your standards, are not insults.

Wow.

1. Dear town -

AD HOMINEM

.
2. Dear Romanus - If you choose to think you know my intentions better than I do, that's your own problem. You'd still be wrong, though, and I never meant any offense.

[Jack]

I agree with romanus.

[Jack]

ebwop: about the nominations

[Raging Rabbit]

This whole post is interesting, I'll refer to my specific part later, but basically.. I notice you go through two phases... a helpful phase and a distracting phase.

You're basically talking about two "posting styles", which up to this point I considered equally helpful. More later.

It's interesting that you posted it right after ROmanus said that it's a red herring that scum will use to cause town to fight each other.

I had tons of posts like these in tons of other places, never thought it'd be difficult to read.

What I am saying is that mafia will have to 'choose themselves' who they want to nominate vs knowing what the town is doing and following along with them, and then hope that a few other people are also voting them.

ok, I see now.

Second quote : My sentence said that Town was going to have to agree on who they were going to nominate the next day.

That's exactly what I was saying before that post, and I was glad you agreed with me.

This is where your quotes fail, because you take only a bit out, which misinterprets what they are saying, and then when you reply, it looks like you are twisting wrods around, misconstruing what is said, or putting words in other people's mouths. You are more than welcome to do things your own way but if people get ruffled by it, you can't then tell them to stop, because that's them reacting to you. This is meant as helpful criticism.

A'ight, I see your point. I admit I never thought of it as difficult before, I thought it was the easiest to read and clearest way. Sorry if I distracted anyone.

So, everyone, I'm genuinely interested here -

what do you consider the most "readable" and least annoying way for me to pharse myself?

This has little to do with the game, but could help us all enjoy it more and help my future games as well. I'd appreciate anyone's input on this.

NOTE: I'm not gonna give up the harmless sarcasm. Anyone who chooses to take offense should look at my new sig/lighten up.

Except it doesn't, because those suspects and the mafia can coup it.

The suspects, if pro town, really shoudln't. The mafia can coup things anyway.

(Was this post built in a distracting/mispreseting manner? I honetly don't know here, so help the poor little bunny.)

[Raging Rabbit]

I agree with romanus.

For the same reasons?

[Raging Rabbit]

Also, Romanus (and Ghyrt?), if you wanna flame me further and argue off-play points, I'd advise you to take a look at the RR General Discussion thread.