California Trilogy - Going to San Francisco (Game Over!)

[MrBuddyLee]

People in motion... people in motion...

*barfs out the window*

[MrBuddyLee]

quick mbl

bus somebody

You first, Gus.

[MrBuddyLee]

vote: Rogueben

[MrBuddyLee]

@Rogueben. That's what I felt too, but no harm done with it up until now, so ok.

Also, since we have gone out of the random vote stage quite quicky,

Unvote

Don't be such a girl. Take that big pink ribbon off your eyes.

Xtoxm also deserves notice for playing as if lurkers won't get replaced.

Niv for using the words hell, fnind, please and please in a two sentence paragraph.

vote niv

, Rogueben, faerielord, xtoxm

[MrBuddyLee]

(Glork.)

Is there some history between the two of you that I'm missing?

I'll let MBL field this one.

I recently called myself a smarmy prick in another game and Glork didn't pipe up to disagree.

In other news, I will not vote Pooky at any point in this game.

Scummiest posts to date, in order. If any of you actually scroll back to these I will be impressed as hell, otherwise this post is for the internet dustbin.

Xtoxm #28
Xtoxm #44
Faerielord #45
Xtoxm #85
Faerielord #80
Sensfan #94
Rogueben #78
Nabokov #67
Niv #89
Gorrad #27
Xtoxm #26
Xtoxm #93
Volkkan #45 for tl;dr on page 2 what the hell
Faerielord #66 for overreaction to #45
Thesp #57
M-M #60
Gaspar #116

...
Honor roll:
Pooky #195
Primspar #97
Thesp #121

vote: Xtoxm

, Faerielord, Sensfan, Rogueban, Nabokov, NiV, Volkkan, Thesp, M-M, Gaspar, Pooks

[MrBuddyLee]

Holy crap, someone actually did the legwork. Glork++

But Primate is stil scummy. After the whole Mr. Grey fiasco last game, I think maybe we should lynch them separately.

vote: Primate

fake edit: invalidated

post-fake edit: Sensfan, why specifically do you find MichaelStablepants so scummy?

Votes/Unvotes not appearing at the bottom of the post are not counted. Tags removed. - Mod

[MrBuddyLee]

I'm intrigued to know whether there is any logic behind MBL's ranking system for scummiest posts.

In general I thought that your list was ordered in a quite strange way. Can you explain how the first three of those posts are the scummiest posts to date? Also what is wrong with #67, #57 and #116?

Also to clarify, does honor roll mean protown (assumption that I made)?

In general, I tossed posts in that list in order of scumminess. I wasn't anal about it.

First three were, in order, a bizarre expression of ambiguity of motive, a fake-sounding expression of ignorance, and an equally fake-sounding reply. I'll check the other three later--headed to lunch.

Honor roll = amusing, I believe. I think Thesp's and Pooks might have carried a little merit as well.

[MrBuddyLee]

Dear Mr. NabokovMcNabokov,

Why did you take the time to tell everyone that you didn't like my first attempt at scumhunting this game and then not even list me in your list of possible scum? Looks like posturing to me.

Also, to others: please don't ask us to metagame you early on day one. Unless you are more entertaining to read than Penthouse Forum.

[MrBuddyLee]

M-M,

Nabokovnabokov spent a post negatively addressing my scumhunting style. He then made a list of his votes, and I was not on that list. I subsequently pointed out his error, and he moved me to third on his list. Are you able to get any read off his behavior in that situation? When you view the rest of his posts, does a wider read support the analysis of his narrower behavior?

[MrBuddyLee]

This is dreadful:

[*]MBL, for posting relatively little content when he is posting regulary. Virtually all he has done this game is posting a list of posts he found scummy, without any explanation why.

I've made six other valid points aside from that one post, thank you very much. One of which concerns you, Mr. Stablepants, so I'd think you'd take note.

More distressingly, you don't appear to have digested my post at all, other than the following:

MBL, post #45 was not written by Vollkan. I guess you mean Vollkan #49?

You obviously skimmed my post looking for any bad points I noted about your scumpartners and tracked them down. Otherwise, you would have wondered what was scummy about post #45.

How is it being scumpartners with vollkan, anyhow?

ps. welcome to the big leagues.

vote: Michel Snapplepants

[MrBuddyLee]

I will have time to make a strong post this weekend. In the meantime, here is this weak one for you to chew on.

Michel Scrabblepoints, your current vote is for a terribly weak reason. I would almost feel better about you if it were on me for the reasons you've given. And the reasons you've given for being on me are quite mediocre.

"And without an explanation of why you found said posts scummy, I couldn't do anything with them. If you don't give your opinion, I can neither agree nor disagree with it."

Oh cmon, don't be obstinate. I'm using a famous scum tactic called "leading the witness" on you, trying to get you to cherrypick posts from my list to agree and disagree with. By watching who you selectively avoid and talk about, I can figure a lot out about who your friends are.

Except in this case I have kindler, gentler motives. Won't you please play along?

(Actually, it's too late today for such games. A reread and your scum delivered on a platter, tomorrow, I promise.)

[MrBuddyLee]

vote: Faerielord

[MrBuddyLee]

Why would you need your other head to pop in before you post your thoughts? Sounds like defensive scum machination bullschnitzky to me.

[MrBuddyLee]

I'm really not jiving with Gaspar's hate on vollkan. Seriously? vollkan as scum is going to deliberately and publically establish rules by which he will avoid voting scummates? (That seems to be the inference being drawn). I think this is a difference in style/method that is being used as a vote, which I would not expect from Gaspar.

That's why I want you guys to pretend this Condo-fallback option isn't around. Because I want to put pressure on this town to man up and actually lynch somebody with a 50%+ majority instead of lazily falling back on Condorcet.

I agree with this 1000%.

Vote: Gaspar

, Niv, RogueBen, PookyTheMagicalBear, Xtoxm, Machiavellian-Mafia, {(All players not listed)}, SensFan, No Lynch, Thesp

(PPE: I'm much more comfortable with Gaspar through the rest of the game.)

Not certain here, i just feel that this whole iscussion culd be staged, which would lead to the conclusion that there is a lik between the tw of you.

Could be != likely to be. (Pooky hits on this as well in the next post.)

A general question to everyone: When you observe a player behaving irrationally, how does that generally affect your interpretation of their alignment?

I try to determine the most likely motivation of the irrational behavior. Oftentimes it is simply poor play, sometimes it's something else.

I like what Gaspar has to say about FaerieLord. A lot. I don't find it more compelling than a Machiavellian-Mafia lynch. I'll try to be around before deadline hits, and I hope lots of other people will be too.

Vote: Machiavellian-Mafia,

MichelSableheart, FaerieLord, BBMars, RogueBen, Xtoxm, {(All players not listed)}, SensFan, No Lynch, Thesp

Thesp, you never explained why you felt the way you did about typical early-game Glork.

I thought I had - it seemed to me that you were trying to leverage actual suspicion out of him (though the tenor of half the post was joking, some of it seemed like you were trying to make an actual issue out of it, which didn't sit right with me).

Also, his blatant over-reaction and his aggressiveness on bandwagoning pooky. Pretty sure he's lurking too.

Vote Volkan

I hate lists, I hate condorcet

Hi, why are you being dumb?

This is probably :badposting:

Pooky is obv protown, but probably needs to stop acting like a village idiot.

Come to think of it, Thesp, I'm surprised that you're surprised at my response. You

know

that I value gut and reads, that I make suspicion lists, will go after lurkers at times, that I seek to find people who seem protown, that I can be very outlandish at the start of mafia games, and that I will not simply bow to another's requests to explain myeslf unless I darned well feel the need or desire to explain myself. I don't think any of my responses to Voll should have been the least bit unexpected to you.

I'd really like to know what provoked you to vote for me/Primate this time around, when you've

seen

my fickle playstyle in action before.


See, now you've gone and made me post all seriously. Jerk.

Dear Pookaliciousness,

Why do you think I am of the evil variety? Do you simply fear that which you cannot comprehend? Does my awesomeness inspire jealousy within you? I would very much like to know.

XOXO,
Glorkspar

Pooky, Xtox, Niv, and Vollkan are probably protown.

Thesp is gut -- I want to hear more from him before I really come to a decision, but I did think he was worth poking around at.

Thesp, you never explained why you felt the way you did about typical early-game Glork.

I told you Fae wasn't innocent. Motherfucking ninjas and shit. Thesp needs to die today.

Vote: Thesp

PRS LLC will formally forecast Gaspar as Anti-town.

PRS LLC Official Opening Ratings:

Sell Now:
Gaspar

PRS LLC has now updated their rating on FL to a SELL rating.
PRS LLC also downgrades Gaspar from Sell Now to Sell+

Hi FL.

We at PRS LLC have noticed a fine streak of strong writing from you, would you lik to join our fine staff on hand? This is a job offer, your starting position would be junior associate with the firm.

Well Glork, I thought it was fairly obvious the PRS LLC official ratings are a sort of tiered suspciion list.

So if any of those players reaches lynch minus one, I will be moving my vote to hammer.

PRS LLC Official Ratings:

Sell+:
Gaspar, Mach-Mafia, BBmars

This is the first PRS LLC ratings report for Day 2, I know you guys are as excited as I am.

PRS LLC Official Ratings:

Sell+:
Thesp, BBMars

Hold:
Gaspar

vote Thesp

I smell funky monkeys.

I'd like to hear everyone's opinions on the unusual song and dance these three have tapped out for us. I have my thoughts, which I'll reserve for the moment.

Also:

Fae, explain your position on gut and why Niv's use of it is scummy

I don't like whenever gut is used, as I see it as a cop out to reasoning. And again see above.

I know I'm metagaming, but trust me, it seems really off

"Trust me"?

Glork was not busing Faerielord. Faerielord + Niv tell here.

vote: Niv

[MrBuddyLee]

Why would you need your other head to pop in before you post your thoughts? Sounds like defensive scum machination bullschnitzky to me.

Popping your head in is perfectly reasonable for town. Town does not want to become the subject of a lurker-hunt. Thus, town has a rational justification for declaring to be "here and reading". Sure, scum

can

also do it for advantage, but that doesn't make it scummy.

You missed my point here. Town isn't afraid of getting their "story" messed up, cause they don't HAVE a story.

Also, your refusal to give specific opinions on the Glork-Pooky-Thesp axis of evil is noted.

[MrBuddyLee]

MBL vibes kicking in strongly on OGML. Pure defensiveness, with a twinge of nasty little threats mixed in to shake town off his tail. And a few little details. Yuck. *shudders*

unvote, vote: OhGodMyLife

[MrBuddyLee]

Please read OGML's contribution to the game before thinking about lynching anyone else. He was in a basement of three people that voted out a townie. I find it highly unlikely that the mod would put three townies in such a situation. That, combined with his play today, makes him significantly scrutable.

[MrBuddyLee]

MBL, why is it so unlikely that three townies would be put in such a situation? Do you think it necessary that one of the other missing three be scum as well? I personally find it more unlikely that more than one scum would be among all six people who were originally missing, as two/??? however many scum there are is bound to be a high proportion of the bad guys.

I don't think trying to outguess the mod on this is the wisest course of action. Its exactly that kind of thinking that got gorrad lynched.

And what exactly about my play is raising red flags with you?

Have you commented on the alignment of anyone upstairs or downstairs yet? Have you OMGUS-voted me?

There's two perfectly good reasons right there.

And I believe I'm dead-on about my setup speculation comment. You guys just didn't read what I wrote carefully. Slackers.

[MrBuddyLee]

Also, major FOS to Gaspar for zeroing in (incorrectly) on my bait (setup speculation about the basement) and ignoring the crux of my point which is that OGML has played scummily.

[MrBuddyLee]

Amateurs.

Let's go to the instant replay:

Please read OGML's contribution to the game before thinking about lynching anyone else. He was in a basement of three people that voted out a townie. I find it highly unlikely that

the mod

would put three townies in such a situation. That, combined with his play today, makes him significantly scrutable.

You guys already hit Xtoxm over this, remember? The difference here is, I actually wanted to see who would follow both halves of my statement.

Which, by the way are BOTH correct.

1) OGML has contributed ZERO scumhunting today and is therefore dilatory scum.
and
2) The mod himself would likely not put three innocents in a basement together in such a fashion. It's entirely possible that someone else WOULD.

Major FOS to Gaspar for a) Failing to analyze OGML's play and b) Failing to read my statement carefully and placing a kneejerk vote that should at BEST be on Xtoxm for committing the ACTUAL accused offense.

My vote remains on OGML, who Gaspar just protected along with Xtoxm.

Yes, I got ya both. Outside shot at the trifecta.

[MrBuddyLee]

I figure that we have a player who shoves people in a basement together in an attempt to get one killed. If they shove the towniest three together, they're probably scum. If they toss a scummy three down there, they're probably town.

So you chided Xtoxm and voted me. Even though my observation about OGML was spot on. And even though you knew I probably noted Xtoxm's false dilemma. Curious.

My "OMGUS FoS" on you stands, Gaspar. I think we should kill one of {the basement dweller who's failed to scumhunt, the protector of said denizen, the false dilemmacizer who they're both protecting in lieu of me} today. I don't like Niv's play either.

[MrBuddyLee]

You're insane. You of all people should know that I have NO FREAKING CLUE how your sad, demented mind operates.

LOL, that's sweet of you.

Let me try this again.

* In going through people's posts, I noted that OGML was entirely incurious about who the scum were. I hypothesized that he was very likely scum and I wanted to dig for associations.

* The fact that he was one of two people directly responsible for the lynch of a townie in the basement is a minor-to-null point against him that's been the source of some controversy.

* I have had a pet theory since I heard the "lynching in the basement" story--that a fellow player in this game put those players there for good or evil purposes.

* I was aware that Xtomx reached a dubious conclusion based on that situation and got smacked on the wrist for it.

* I decided to play a little game with my finger-pointing at OGML. I hinted at my pet theory and wanted to see if anyone else had considered the same thing. And I wanted to see who might leap on my bacon for that one thing without fairly assessing the entire post. Which is pretty much what 3-4 of you did. It's called selective reading. You wanted to find the scum in one place and not another.

tl;dr: I think the scent of fake blood brought out some jackals. Keep an eye on Gaspar, OGML, vollkan and possibly Nabokov.

[MrBuddyLee]

Michel,

I don't think the mod himself would put two pairs of three aligned players in a basement together with indirectly implied pressure that they need to lynch one of their bunch to escape. It pays too much homage to the random number generator.

However, the mod would have no problem creating a role that puts people in such a situation. That way, you'll potentially be able to ascertain the alignment of the puppeteer as well as possibly the people in the basement via their behaviors. It'd be a fantastic role.

I'll be surprised if that's not the case. I could be wrong. That's somewhat of an adjunct to the main points I was trying to make.

[MrBuddyLee]

selective reading

You mean the kind of selective reading that would take a post apparently utilizing craplogic and find a bizzare interpertation (involving one, possibly two completely unconventional roles) that was maybe not craplogic?

Nice misdirection attempt. The crux of my post was that OGML has not played like a townie. There were hints, traps and teasers to other issues there, but I referred TWICE in my three sentence post to the fact that OGML's post history is scummy.

And curiously, you're trying to distract from that issue.

Seriously, guys, OGML is very likely going to come up scum. It's nearly a certainty at this point, based on his lack of curiosity, the fervence with which these people are avoiding discussing him and are frenziedly chasing after this nylon bone I planted. He's scum who already knows who the scum are, I pointed that out, and I'm drawing out a protector or two of his in the process.

[MrBuddyLee]

I'm just not seeing the airtight case you claim to be laying down here.

It's hyperbole. You don't get good reactions out of people by being entirely reasonable.

[MrBuddyLee]

My comments were:

MBL vibes kicking in strongly on OGML. Pure defensiveness, with a twinge of nasty little threats mixed in to shake town off his tail. And a few little details. Yuck. *shudders*

Please read OGML's contribution to the game before thinking about lynching anyone else. He was in a basement of three people that voted out a townie. I find it highly unlikely that the mod would put three townies in such a situation. That, combined with his play today, makes him significantly scrutable.

And what I am saying is that you have not commented at all this game on OGML, not even in response to my post. Anyone who reads his post history will realize how disastrously scummy his play is thus far. OGML is entirely waiting for someone else to make a case; for someone else to get lynched. He is almost certainly scum.

And anyone who read my above comments and did not follow up on them is NOT curious about OGML's alignment. And is quite possibly scum with him.

[MrBuddyLee]

My condorcet, with reasons:

MBL - You're trying very, very hard to convince people I am made of pure, unadulterated evil, and have simultaneously gone about extremely dangerous setup speculation that seems to either set up a second mislynch (on CKD next) or directly contradict your hypothesis that I am scum (if there really is a role out there that put the basement-dwellers there in the first place). You're also bunching together anyone who got a whiff of the shit you were selling and trying to paint the lot of us badly when you were the one who came out with the craplogic in the first place. You remain my preferred lynch for the day.

Xtoxm - You did the same thing as MBL is now doing with the setup speculation, albeit in a much more straightforward manner. You were also willing to admit it was not necessarily the case.

Unvote; Vote: MBL

, Xtoxm, BBMars, Rogueben, LML, Niv, {People}, CKD, No Lynch, OGML

You're a blatant, stinky liar.

I made it very clear that my setup speculation was entirely intended to point out that a PLAYER, not the mod, probably chose the players to put in the basement. There is nothing extremely dangerous or craplogicky about that. Your insinuation that I'm trying to set up any kind of double lynch on CKD is a LIE. Utter fabrication. YOU ARE SCUM.

I made it even clearer that you hadn't commented on a single upstairs player in your two weeks in the game, and YOU AGREED. That is why I was voting you, and that is why you are scummy. You are voting me for some tortured combination of a) setup hypothesis, b) spotting opportunists protecting you and c) OGML OMGUS.

The time when we can figure anything out from the basement situation is a long way off. The time when we can figure out that you didn't give a crap about finding scum until you got called on it is NOW. That, plus the fact that you're lying through your teeth to get the heat off you is disgraceful.

Note to everyone: OGML IS SCUM. Vibes overwhelmingly powerful. The amount of evasion this creep is engaging in points unambiguously to his utter lack of sincerity.

Lynch OhGodMyLife today. For god's sake, he doesn't even rebut the case against him, he just points his finger back at me in hopes of staving off his death for a day. Read his post history! It's the epitome of scumminess. If I'm wrong, lynch me tomorrow. And I'm not wrong.

[MrBuddyLee]

Oh God, OhGodMyLife, you are such total scum!

You find LML scummy cause SensFan piled on Xtomx-town.
You find Rogueben scummy cause he's protecting Xtomx-scum!

You "agree with the case on BBMars" but don't say who what when or why!

Oh God, are you scum. Your list of suspicions is one of the worst fabrications I've ever seen. There's no internal consistency and nearly no specifics. Thank you for making it so easy to spot you--would you kindly post another lack of suspicions list so we can find your remaining partners!

[MrBuddyLee]

{People} - I don't have strong feelings on anybody I didn't specifically list. The only one I want to mention is Pooky. I'm not a fan of his method but I don't think its scummy and obviously he isn't going to change it for me if he's unwilling to do so after heated discussion with Vollkan and the repeated attacks from Niv. I hope on later days your tactics will change.

So no opinion on Thesp or Gaspar? You find Xtomx suspect for agreeing with Gaspar. Gaspar's the most prolific player in this game. You have no opinion on Gaspar? Does not compute. Makes me wonder what he's offered you to stay out of his basement.

Also, why comment on Pooky's method and not his actual Buy/Sell recommendations?

You had obviously already reached the conclusion that I am scum, and not taken into account that I could be anything else (lazy, stupid, a suboptimal player)

I actually did my homework, because I recalled hearing something about you. You're a very capable scumhunter, that is, when you're not scum.

Also, I don't think you're a literal creep, I just like the imagery of something creepy slinking up from the basement overnight. Please don't kill us all! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!

[MrBuddyLee]

I also believe it's not a good idea to lynch OGML today. It's extremely improbable that he and CKD are scum together, and both seem quite convinced the other is town.

Unvote

Vote: BBMars

, LoudmouthLee, MrBuddyLee, {people}, OhGodMyLife, curiouskarmadog, {missing people}, No Lynch, MichelSableheart

Wow!

Complete and utter protection for OGML and/or CKD based entirely on their second-hand accounts of play we never saw.

Worse yet, his vote remains on BBMars for stated reason:

BBMars is feeling terribly scummy right now. The only vote they made was essentially random, the promised condorcet never arrived, the only player they commented on was Xtoxm. They posted the bare minimum to not receive strikes. I believe they're trying to stay out of the picture on purpose, actively lurking in other words.

This from the player who railed against lurker hunting D1:

Then, only 36 hours into the game, you start lurkerhunting. This game has enormously strict activety rules, so anyone who does not post often enough will likely get replaced in no time at all. The only lurkerhunting we are likely to do in this game is hunting active lurkers, and that needs much more evidence then a single post during the random voting stage in the first 36 hours of the game.

I agree that we have to poke at active lurkers. I think there's a lot more to work with at present...

And also, you made it seem like you wanted Faerielord dead but you in reality fomented Machiavellian-Mafia's mislynch. The strikes they are adding up against you, sir.

[MrBuddyLee]

MBL, on day one you welcomed Mr. Scrabblepoints to the big leagues. This is also my first game with most of the old hands on this site, and its a much different game playing with veterans than playing in those newbies, mini normals and open games. I'm getting the picture here from the amount of backlash to my post that I'm way out of my element.

It's great to have you guys here playing hard. You're not out of your element. With any luck, very soon Glork will be calling you sad and demented and I will be calling Michel Sableheart a creep. And Thesp will be inviting you to spend a long weekend in his basement with Pooky.

And it's never too late to dig yourself out of a hole with the truth, unless you've been investigated as scum. I'm pretty sure that hasn't happened yet. So get to work helping us track down your fellow dirtbags! We expect no less from you than the rout that was Mountainous Multiball.

[MrBuddyLee]

Gaspar, this is so much fun! When have we ever had a chance to catch scum together? Well, not counting Lights Out 2.

[MrBuddyLee]

This.Is.Really.Weird.

I was getting a strange vibes from volkan. I think this is significant, because I usually get strong town vibes from him, even when he is scum...dont know what in particular sparked it, though....going to reread.

I am not sure why vollkan is pinging a Dar(scum?)..his play is different.

vollkan, it is more your playstyle is different than I am used to with you. That doesnt mean much, because you have fooled me before as scum (with the same style as town)...but something is different...at any rate, I need to read.

Keeping up with the game, but still need to reread some more, and read vollkan in a vacuum..don’t have the time to do either right now.

I found vollkan post (49) quite odd. Maybe he did have an experience that made him make a preemptive statement, but it was still strange. I think it is a null tell, but it isn’t like the vollkan I am used to seeing.

After rereading I am not sure what stuck out about vollkan’s posts to me. He does seem different somehow, but that means little. I have seen vollkan play both scum and town and was fooled both times.

All that focus, and then you list him as 8th most suspicious. Hmmmmmmm.

[MrBuddyLee]

I'm sorry, OGML, I didn't mean to scumhunt.

Won't happen again.

[MrBuddyLee]

CKD is town. I am town.

This game gets weirder and weirder. This quote is striking, coming from one of the scummiest players in the game. If you can back this statement up, now is the time to do so.

At least two people (MBL, Xtoxm) have speculated that this can not be the case because they don't think the mod/some possible basement filling role would have put three townies down there. I can't say how many other people believe them, but buying that theory clearly leads down a road to a CKD lynch once I am lynched as town. Its bad enough to have myself getting mislynched. I don't want a second townie to go down simply due to a false pretense that if one of us isn't scum, the other has to be.

And again with the utter falsehoods. The moment I heard the basement scenario, my guess was that a scum player or serial killer got to choose which players to put in the basement together. If an evil player with perfect visibility had a chance to put three people in a basement together with lynch capabilities, his ideal scenarios would be:

1) three townies
2) two scumpartners and a townie

There's no way to know which at present besides evaluating the basement-dwellers' play.

It is noble that you are trying to protect poor innocent CKD. Almost too noble.

[MrBuddyLee]

Ugh. Sorry, I made it pretty clear I didn't have info on OGML, just thought he was super duper scummy.

I'll find us another citizen to mis-exile and then maybe you guys can go against my wishes this time. Following MBL is obviously not the play of the day.

[MrBuddyLee]

1) Where did you make it clear that you did not have info? Quote for me please.
2) Your language was ridiculously over-the-top.

1)

And it's never too late to dig yourself out of a hole with the truth, unless you've been investigated as scum. I'm pretty sure that hasn't happened yet. So get to work helping us track down your fellow dirtbags! We expect no less from you than the rout that was Mountainous Multiball.

2) Yes, I boldly pointed him out. Over the top gets reactions. I honestly thought OGML was scum. So many things clicked that frankly it shocks me he's town. I wanted to see everyone's reactions to his play to see who'd protect and who'd sheep, paranoid that I might have an investigation. But yes, I made it clear I did not.

[MrBuddyLee]

A couple thoughts I'm posting from work before I forget...

1) BBmars kill looks vig or SK. Which may imply some interesting things.
2) Gaspar, what was your thought process towards the end of day yesterday? You "trusting" MBL is strange to say the least.
3) MichelS, this looks sketchy:

It seems I was wrong about OGML - CKD. I really expected that, after they had lynched Gorrad, they had become masons, which would explain their defense of each other. However, with OGML claiming no power, that theory was obviously wrong.

So, with the previous singer without a connection to San Francisco revealing non-town, I'm happy with an

Unvote

Vote: OGML

How on earth would OGML's fakeclaim of a singer make him look MORE like scum? Faerielord seemed perfectly happy to claim when asked, implying scum have a method of obtaining fakeclaims in this game, as we did in the last game.

Also, your masons theory is odd, considering it means two townies would have been rewarded for lynching a townie by being granted masonship. Can you please elaborate upon your evaluation of that basement situation?

In retrospect, your hammer looks a little exuberant.

[MrBuddyLee]

What? Michel listed several sketchy "possible reasons" why he was protecting OGML/CKD and I said:

Wow!

Complete and utter protection for OGML and/or CKD based entirely on their second-hand accounts of play we never saw.

I didn't realize Michel weighed the masons possibility so heavily until his hammer. I thought the protection was notable, but I was more concerned with his irrational trust of them based on what could have easily been comanufactured lies.

(As it turns out, OGML's trust of CKD was genuine, if bizarre. However, that doesn't make Michel's observations any more proportional.)

[MrBuddyLee]

Hi, this will be my one and only obligatory post of this game. I'm running short on sleep at the end of a long work roadtrip but will make the time to read the game carefully today. Apologies--you deserve more from me after yesterday's giant oops, and you shall soon have it.

[MrBuddyLee]

Because calling MBL's case against OGML "very good and valid" seems like a stretch to me.

However, my perception of him made a huge shift from "almost certainly town" to "quite likely to be scum", based on his claim and the case against him.

*raises eyebrow*

Tags removed. Please use bold tags only for voting and unvoting. - Mod

[MrBuddyLee]

Post 162 MBL explains why he included a few posts in his list. About Xtoxm's 44, he notes "a fake-sounding expression of ignorance" and FL's response (45) "an equally fake-sounding reply". Here's Xtoxm's post:

Ok.

vote Gorrad.

Anyone got any idea's what missing means?

FL's response was "I have no idea."

MBL, what did you think this might imply? That Xtoxm and FL

did

know something about who was missing? What do you think now, taking into account Gorrad and OGML's return?

I'm thinking that maybe the scumteam puts people in the basement. Faerielord's answer just seems superfluous. I scanned people's posts for inside knowledge in an effort to find scum. Not much there.

[MrBuddyLee]

If I reread the OGML bandwagon yesterday, I find it extremely worrying how many people follow MBL without any reasons of their own: Gaspar votes OGML without giving reasons, NN agrees with MBL about OGML's scumhunting and votes, Niv quotes a post with his vote, but never explains what he dislikes about it, Pooky mentions a blatant bandwagon jump as his reason, Rogueben is convinced by MBL's post #525 and Xtoxm votes "because BBMars' bandwagon is dead". Now MBL points out a single post from me, and RogueBen and Niv immediately vote on it. I seriously dislike how MBL is leading this town around.

And finally, a quote I found during my reread:

I'm quite a bit less sold on MBL as scum today.

What did MBL do to make you feel better?

Whoa. Why is Gaspar at the bottom of your condorcet? You're worried about people following evil lil ole me, right?

Tags removed. Please use bold tags only for voting and unvoting. - Mod

[MrBuddyLee]

His remark about MBL's setup speculation is correct too: if there is a player who chose who to put in the basement, it's likely a player with a bit of info. The most likely player to make that decision is a mafia member, and a mafia member is most likely to place three townies in the basement. If MBL believed his own theory, he would likely have been more careful about attacking OGML, since it would be rather likely that all players in the basement are town.

What I've said, or at least what I believe, is that a player is responsible for locking people in the basement. I don't think we have enough info to nail down anyone's alignment yet based on that info.

BUT... we are getting close. And the fact that three of the best players in this game are STILL down there is unsettling. Take a moment to think about what would and wouldn't break the setup in various scenarios.

[MrBuddyLee]

Ugh, I'm uncomfortable with the Sablewagon. I agree that he's suspect for several reasons but not to the extent that other discourse should be ignored, which is what seems to be happening. The Pooky-Gaspar-Thesp axis still seems evasive.

[MrBuddyLee]

MrBuddyLee: 4 (Gaspar, MichelSableheart, Niv, Pooky)

Wow, did you see how all that just oozed into voting for me?

EBWOP: This day seriously needs more Sablelynch.

Dear MBL,

If you're scum, suck it up and bus your scumbuddy.

(claims vanilla)

Unvote, Vote: MBL

MBL is leading this town around way too much. He is by far most responsible for the OGML mislynch.
vote: MBL

(That coming from the guy who HAMMERED OGML. Are you kidding me? I led YOU into hammering OGML? My bad. WTF!)

This is such a clasic scum post that it scares me. it is so full of, He is scuummy, but when he turns up town, don't look at me. this is just terrible.
vote: MBL

What? When I turn up town don't blame you for voting me?

vote: NabNab

wut r u, scum?

unvote
vote MBL

You won't find a scummier wagon with less reasons than this, ever. Where the hell are the reasons? Where did these votes come from? Who protected Faerielord? Who claimed vanilla and got several people to inexplicably unvote him?

I have the innocent alignement, and no special abilities I am aware of.

it implies that I may have an ability that can be used by day, by only mentioning abilities that can be used at night in the negation

What? Your PM says you have no abilities. Why would a townie try to weasel into making it seem like they might have a day ability? Answer: they wouldn't, they'd just claim vanilla.

More importantly, why the hell would anyone unvote you for that claim? Answer? Cause they're your scumpartner.

vote: MichelSableheart

, Gaspar

[MrBuddyLee]

Yeah, something doesn't add up about Gaspar and Sableheart. Timeline:

39 hrs before deadline: there is a Condorcet winner posted, there will be a lynch
32 hrs before deadline: OGML claims vanilla
31 hrs before deadline: Sableheart hammers, ending discussion for the day, throws in a defense of his protection of Faerielord over Machiavellian-Mafia.
28 hrs before deadline: Glork applauds, but distances from Sableheart:

Michel's hammer does seem somewhat indicative of "let me hammer my scumbuddy so as to seem more protown."

First post the next day:

I can't believe I let MBL fool me into thinking he was legit yesterday.

Vote: MBL, Michel

Distancing complete, and he protects Sableheart by redirecting attention on to me.

Gaspar also started drawing connections earlier today when it looked bad for Sableheart:

I would say that Michelscum strongly implies Benscum at this point.

If Michel shows up scum, clear Rogueben and bury Gaspar please.

* Sableheart showed direct protection of Faerielord and got Machiavellian Mafia(town) lynched end of D1
* Sableheart quicklynched OGML(town) in the wee hours after a claim
* Sableheart switched to MBL(town) claiming I'm leading town around and I'm responsible for his own hammer of OGML
* Gaspar distanced from Sableheart end of day yesterday
* Gaspar protects Sableheart from a lynch today after a vanilla claim

Oh, Michel Scumhart claimed.
unvote Michel, vote: MBL

Gaspar, if your theory really was that Michel and I were scumpartners together, why would you unvote him and vote me after his dreadfully bogus vanilla claim?

Sableheart is 0-for-3 on suspicions and trying to disguise it each time. Gaspar is not playing like Gaspar. If I get mislynched, get Gaspar. Or get Sableheart now, then get Gaspar when Sableheart comes up scum.

unvote, vote: Gaspar

, MichelSableheart

[MrBuddyLee]

-Incidentally: MBL, whatever happened to your "one of CKD/OGML is likely scum" theory?

Again, this was never my theory, my comments were misconstrued.

I have a lot to say about the way I was thrust forth as the Niv-alternative end of yesterday, and I'll get to that tonight. On a client site at the moment.

[MrBuddyLee]

Antics?

Antics?

Also:

Fae, explain your position on gut and why Niv's use of it is scummy

I don't like whenever gut is used, as I see it as a cop out to reasoning. And again see above.

I know I'm metagaming, but trust me, it seems really off

"Trust me"?

Glork was not busing Faerielord. Faerielord + Niv tell here.

vote: Niv

I'm one for two thus far, with two unknown data points (Gaspar, Snapplepants), and I helped lynch Fairielord, albeit unconvincingly. The only thing I'd remotely consider antics is my brief discussion of the basement issue, which frankly I'm surprised hasn't been resolved at all for us.

Vote:

MisterBuddyLee

, Xtoxm, RogueBen, Thesp, PookyTheMagicalBear, Niv, destructor, curiouskarmadog, NabakovNabakov, Vollkan, Gaspar, {IH, Nibbler Twins, Sarcastro}, Mr. Grey, No Lynch, MichelSableheart

Gaspar protected Niv and was on the Niv alternative end of yesterday... along with MichelSableheart and Niv. I need to read MS more carefully to look for relationships between MS and Xtoxm/Rogueben, who he curiously seems to be either busing or pressing as lynch alternatives to scum. I am still disturbed by MS's claim yesterday and Gaspar's (Thesp's?) reaction to it.

[MrBuddyLee]

You were the first to assault MBL's faulty logic regarding scum in the basement

For the (not really) last time, reread it and realize that I didn't use faulty logic. I never said that both were town or both were scum or any BS like that. I just theorized neutrally to see what discussion would come of it. The more dead town that come out of that basement, the more I suspect there's a scum putting them down there.

nobody would have batted an eye if I had voted for the counterwagon (MBL), though I suppose I would have caught flak for it today. Why wouldn't CKD or Thesp be more likely bussers?

This reads suspiciously like the post of a man who knows my alignment. (Except what's with the busing part, who were CKD and Thesp busing? Niv? I don't buy that at all.)

[MrBuddyLee]

vote: Gaspar

[MrBuddyLee]

I don't think Gaspar is actually trying to find scum. He's dissembling. I found two serious anomalies in his recent posts, plus a boatload of fluff, and I am waiting to see who else picks up on it.

[MrBuddyLee]

Scape indeed seems to be a scumgroup, but I don't think there are any kills that can be attributed to them yet. FaerieLord, Flameaxe and Pooky all got the same description (murdered), so are likely to be made by the same killer. It's possible that the dead of Nibbler Twins can be attributed to them, though.

Shit, this is bad too. Really bad. The amazing thing is, I don't think I've ever seen Gaspar protect a scumpartner this WIFOM blatantly, so I doubt he and Sableheart are aligned. There are enough things to point out at this point that it doesn't make sense for me to wait much longer on what I've spotted, but I'd like others to take a look at Gaspar/Sableheart please before I let my arrows fly.

[MrBuddyLee]

For starters, see if you can match up game data with Gaspar's claim that he thought Thesp+Sensfan were masons until today. Then ask yourself why someone would write a pair of people off as scum for an imaginary reason. (answer: they wouldn't)

Then, ask yourself what this:

I find the existence of a redirector-type role to be very highly unlikely.

implies.

Then look at this timeline:

* MM Lynch >>>>> Niv Lynch
* I'm thinking that both Niv and Mach-Maf should claim.
* Right. I am not at all a fan of a Nivlynch (as indicated by my Condorcets), but since it's very likely going to be one of them.... mise well.
* Vote: FaerieLord, Thesp, BBMars, Sens
* niv claims
SUPER DUPER CONFIRM Vote: FaerieLord, Thesp, BBMars, Sens, Michel, Rogueben, {people}, Vollkan, Pooky, Machiavellian-Mafia, Niv, No Lynch, Gaspar
* Vote: Thesp

1) It looks like he knew Niv was roled scum and was way too ready to believe Niv's claim. In fact, he seems to have "believed it" before Niv actually claimed, and primed the Faerielord bus instead.
2) A vanilla claim by MM was easily believed
3) After the primary piece of evidence one could conceivably think points to a Thesp-Sensfan masonry, Gaspar still votes those two top of his list.
4) Thesp goes from Glork's #1 suspect to most trusted, and I go to #1 suspect, with the only significant game event in the interim being my OGML comments and Thesp's vote for me. It looks like Gaspar knows OGML is going to come up scum and he prepares for the next day's lynch, while pretending he thinks I'm a cop with a guilty on OGML. But why'd Glork vote me, and then move his vote to BBMARS, NOT OGML if he thought I was a cop?

The only thing I can see making sense is if Gaspar is a daycop who got an innocent on Thesp early yesterday. Otherwise, the story about a masonry is a lie covering for that bizarre behavior.

I don't like Gaspar's fluffy attack on vollkan.

And yes, Gaspar has nailed what I found fishy about Sableheart's post.

I'm going back to bed, but I've stirred the pot. These are the things I have been thinking, and while they may or may not be right, something stinks to me.

[MrBuddyLee]

I don't like Gaspar's fluffy attack on vollkan.

I don't like your factually incorrect attack on me. Nice to meet you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcsVPis1iNs

Simple. Mith does not strike me as the kind of mod to include such a role. I have played and read several of his games, and I don't recall ever seeing something as such.

You haven't held this belief consistently over the course of this game.

I call bullshit. Would you care to revise your remarks?

I told you, I didn't notice this until recently, when I glanced at some of Thesp's early-game posts.

Did you glance at the rest of Thesp's and Sensfan's play to see if that made sense?

Cause it doesn't

, and therefore I don't think you're telling the truth about that.

Your Niv protection was multifaceted

:

* 30 hrs from deadline we need 8 to lynch.
* M-M has 5, Niv 4, Xtomx 4, Faerielord 1
* You take an action pretty much designed to ensure a Condorcet lynch (Move off of M-M and not to Niv or Xtomx)
* The mod lists the Condorcet winner as Niv
* You post a huge defense of Niv and move him below M-M on your Condorcet
* Nabnab and Thesp join you in defense of Niv
* Mod posts a Condorcet with M-M getting axed
* M-M is Condorcet lynched as town

Gaspar saved Niv and doomed M-M while trying to make it look like he suspected Faerielord.

Then the next day you do your strange song and dance about how you're so sure Sableheart is scum and then you unvote him for a vanilla claim. Your play is scattershot and suspect, and you nearly had me mislynched yesterday. Some of your play today looks like attempts to obfuscate/bus in case you go down for your Niv protection. I say obfuscate instead of scumhunt because it's not holding together logically.

Your attempt to portray me as a rolefisher reeks of desperation. I have no desire to know--I simply stated the only logical explanation for your play unless you're scum. And I don't think you're a daycop.

And I'm not waiting for people to pipe up so they can make my cases for me. I was waiting because I wanted to see whether there are any other Innocents out there catching the obvious.

[MrBuddyLee]

You haven't held this belief consistently over the course of this game.

I call bullshit. Would you care to revise your remarks?

What the hell are you talking about? I care to revise nothing. The only bullshit you smell is your own.

Why didn't you raise this point about Mith and role redirectors when Niv claimed his result to start D2?

I targeted one pooky the magical bear last night, and well,

was for some reason redirected to rougeben

. never the less, using my "show biz" connections, and aparentally my knowlede of people in san fansisco, i found out rougeben's role name.

So my main reason for voting you was that I noted your "situational concern". When the existence of a redirector protected Niv, you said nothing. Now that Niv's dead, you conveniently argue the opposite.

Simple. Mith does not strike me as the kind of mod to include such a role. I have played and read several of his games, and I don't recall ever seeing something as such.

So I'll ask again--would you care to revise and extend your remarks?

[MrBuddyLee]

Also, your carelessness in basing late D2 alignment suppositions on a single Condorcet vote at the start of D1 is unlike you. In the wider context of sketchy Gaspar play, I call shenanigans and don't buy your Thesp-destructor story.

[MrBuddyLee]

I find it extremely strange that you claim to have believed throughout the game that a redirector type role was very highly unlikely, yet you believed Niv (who claimed to have been redirected from Pooky to RogueBen) to be pro-town.

Brownie points, even if you're a bit late to the game.

[MrBuddyLee]

What the hell are you talking about? I care to revise nothing. The only bullshit you smell is your own.

I say that the fact that your arguments are getting this ridiculous, unfounded, and off-base reek of desperation. So there.

I realize I've been careless. I suppose I'm just eating my earlier words.

Apology accepted, Gaspar.

What's your current stance on a role redirector this game? What are your current stances on Thesp and Michel Sableheart? What's your theorization about how nightkills have been carried out and by whom?

[MrBuddyLee]

I wanted to see OGML defend himself and come out with some real suspicions, And his next post, the suspicions one, was forced and dreadful. Which you might expect of flustered scum, so it fit the pattern. Yuck.

[MrBuddyLee]

curiouskarmadog
destructor, replacing LoudmouthLee N2, SensFan D2
Gaspar
MichelSableheart
MrBuddyLee
NabakovNabakov
Rogueben
Thesp
vollkan
Xtoxm

Still missing: IH, Sarcastro

Nibbler Twins (Ray Charles, Innocent) - found Day 4
PookyTheMagicalBear (Lars Ulrich, Innocent) - murdered Night 3.
Niv (Emily Robison, SCAPE) - lynched Day 3.
Flameaxe, replacing BBMars D2 (Innocent San Franciscan, Innocent) - murdered Night 2.
OhGodMyLife (Björk, Innocent) - lynched Day 2.
FaerieLord (Natalie Maines, SCAPE) - murdered Night 1.
Machiavellian-Mafia (Gordon E. Moore, Innocent) - lynched Day 1.
Gorrad (Keith Hernandez, Innocent) - lynched in the basement Day 1.
The Reader (Innocent San Franciscan) - murdered during Pre-Game.

The game would be unbalanced if scum could put themselves in a majority in the basement and just ride things out while town axed themselves. So I don't think IH and Sarcastro have a partner that put them there to kill the Nibbler Twins. Or put them there themselves. Make sense?

Singers, baseball players, business guys, plain Innocents. SCAPE is Dixie Chicks, two current members are dead, at least Natalie Maines likely remains. Scum tried Robin Williams as a safeclaim? 20 players and 3 scum is not terribly likely. Nightkill types appear to be "murdered, found". Not sure if that implies two scum groups. "Murdered" kills appear to be protown.

General thoughts without rereading:
* Xtoxm is generally perceived as town
* MBL, Sableheart, Rogueben have been widely suspected
* ckd is the sole survivor from the basement. two dead town from there, he pushed Nivlynch two days straight
* vollkan says MBL is unlikely SCAPE, votes MBL primarily for OGML pursuit
* Rogueben
* Gaspar protects Niv, sees Thesp as a mason, conflicted on a redirector
* Nab Defended MBL before lynch yesterday, attacked by Gaspar for opportunism on MBL, has no suspicions today
* Xtoxm defending RB and Gaspar today, lists no suspicions
* Sableheart suspects Gaspar and RB today
* Thesp wants vollkan dead next, misdirects from Gaspar's defense of Niv today
* destructor reading carefully, lots of somewhat founded suspicions, no founded conclusions today

I really don't like that Gaspar and MS wanted me dead instead of Niv yesterday and M-M dead instead of Faerielord D1. Yeah, yeah, they made it look like they wanted Fae dead but the net result of their actions was otherwise. It's the same general idea twice, and I doubt that's coincidence. Combine that with Gaspar's indifferent, self-conscious play and I think he's the more likely scumbag.

[MrBuddyLee]

A handful of points I'd like you to address:
-What exactly do you think of Sable's claim? I don't believe you ever answered Thesp's question about how you evaluated it.

I think Sable's claim is suspicious. I've never seen someone claim vanilla before and then try to imply they might have a power. Smelled like a weird attempt to shake his tails.

-What in my lengthy post is "fluff"?

Off the top of my head, you went back to vollkan's D1 one post and bitched about some insignificant detail totally unrelated to scumhunting this game.

-Why do you keep trying to tie me to different players? D1 and early D2 you found me suspect (and posited Glorkspar/Pooky at the start of D2). You then expanded this to Gaspar-Pooky-Thesp. Then you posited Gaspar/OGML. Once OGML is dead and gone, you threw out Glork-Pooky-Thesp again. Then you suddenly went to Glork/Sable. I guess what I want to know is:
A_ Why do you insist on trying to pair me as scum with different people?

Because I thought you protected Sableheart and I find yours and Thesp's relationship odd. I don't recall particularly accusing you of protecting OGML. It doesn't imply that I find you to be scumpairs, I am just noting odd behavior on your part that doesn't look sincere.

B) Why in your mind do I get around more than the neighborhood slut?

Because you charge a lot less?

C) If you've so solidly thought I'm scum since late D1 and keep trying to find my scumbuddies, why did it take you until late in Day Three to actually vote me?

I think this is a misrepresentation, but answering in general, I'd almost never want to lynch you D1/D2 without ridiculously solid evidence. I'll go into detail on this later, because I am starting to feel like you're hyperventilating and misrepresenting my positions in order to distract from your own play. You admit you have played sloppily if not scummily, and you take issue with me calling you on it? Sketchy.

-What exactly did you mean when you stated that one of CKD/OGML was certainly scum, and why did you drop that theory like a high school prom date?

I've explained this twelve times, and again, it's slimy that you keep misrepresenting me. Ball's in your court--please show me where I said that and I'll reply. Or at least show me the quote of mine you're misrepresenting.

-Given your "Pooky/Gaspar/Thesp" positioning, what do you think of Thesp's assertion that I'm distinctly protown? Of mine that he is distinctly protown?

I think you guys are retarded. If you'd care to give me reasons, I'd be happy to evaluate them, but neither of you has done jack-squat for this town so far--to the contrary, I think you've both undermined it.

[MrBuddyLee]

I don't see Thesp as a mason anymore. You seriously need to get your fucking facts straight, you ignorant cad.

sees/saw. typo, sorry.

re: RB: I tried to make it through the whole list of players without peeking at the thread, and failed. I couldn't think of a thing he's done today or recently other than get "investigated" by a scumbag. Same issue with Nab, Xtoxm and destructor--I had to cheat to recall what any of them have done today.

[MrBuddyLee]

God, you lie blatantly and just expect to get away with it? It's tiresome.

You just admitted to at least two of my recent points being perfectly valid because you've been "careless". The two, in fact, that I was waiting for people to remark on before I brought them up. But feel free to tell the world I'm scum for pointing out your "mistakes". To me, they just look like Glork not giving a damn about the facts or who gets lynched.

I'm tired of dealing with your propaganda, so I'm going to drop the stick and let everyone else who cares read through it if they want to see your distortions. As a final reality check for you, the things that look the scummiest about you, in order:

1) You are fast and loose with the truth about things like a redirector role
2) You're "clearing" people like Thesp based on partial reads of the game
3) You're not being honest about the case I've made against you--you're cherrypicking any slightly lazy comments I make. Fair play, to be sure, but scummy as hell.
4) You have been shady at end-of-day EVERY DAY and you blame someone else each time.
5) For like the fourth game in a row we've played together, you're pointing to Face-to-Face as why I'm scum. Some are ongoing and I can't comment further, and some are over and you were proven wrong. Face it, your meta on me sucks.

[MrBuddyLee]

5) This is an interesting one, because you make an implicit concession that I'm genuinely trying to use meta to out you. Maybe my meta does suck and maybe it doesn't, but I'm glad you brought this up, because it shows that you know I'm trying to meta you, that I'm trying to figure out whether you're scum or not. I don't think you're as sold on GasparScum as you make yourself out to be.

I'm wrong all the time as town, but I eventually get it right or get nightkilled. I've never voted wrong at lynch or lose because I take my time to get things right. It's possible you're trying to ascertain my alignment, like you did in a few other games we were in together. And it's possible you're doing the same thing you did when I nailed you and your scumpartner on D1 of Space Monkeys and you tried to lynch me unsuccessfully and then nightkilled me:

I do not expect people to attack me for behaving in a ridiculous manner. But if they do, I will continue to defend myself. I may complain about it (as I did earlier)... but I will still explain why my actions are not inconsistent with me being pro-town. I don't understand why you're telling Nightson that he should not be defending himself.

Actually, now that I look back at things, there's a serious misrepresentation that I can't let go unnoted.

Let's go back and look at what I said:

Strong FoS: MBL
Do you have a real reson for voting me? Or do you just plan on misrepresenting me and making up reasons to "suspect" me, hoping it'll stick somehow?

Same schtick from you. I was raising valid points and you hit me with these stupid little half-truths and technicalities that kept others off your back.

[MrBuddyLee]

He's accusing you of being shady for not automatically accepting his claims that I'm suspicious for defending Niv. Instead, you talk about something else, mention that I'm protown, and suddenly you're "deflecting." That's just how MrScumbuddyLee operates.

I'm so done with this BS. You keep redirecting to the Niv thing. Sure, you could have just made a bad read on Niv. I've done that as town.

The things I find really scummy about you are more about your carelessness/recklessness re: alignments in general. The mason thing. I read all your Thesp posts. The timeline and your suspicions don't add up. The vollkan thing--attacking him on D3 primarily for a theory post from early D1. Attacking NabNab for attacking me, when he was also the first to defend me, I believe. Being inconsistent on your redirector beliefs. The list goes on, seriously.

I have genuine concern that you are just having fun inventing suspicions and beliefs and are not dotting your Is nor crossing your Ts. It's something scum do. And worse, when I point it out, you resort to propaganda and pretend that I am imagining things. It's beyond annoying, and it leads me to believe you may very well be scum.

And you know damned well there's a game you metaed me to death in that we can't discuss further.

[MrBuddyLee]

This only came after enormous pressure from MBL, and his list of suspicions reads completely artificial, as if it was formulated only to quiet MBL and not because he was actually hunting scum.

His case on MBL, his top suspect, doesn't even acknowledge MBL's explanation for his speculation and is mostly dressed up OMGUS.

Brilliant! It warms my heart when people actually acknowledge the facts in this cold, harsh world. If you're scum, I'm going to be very angry with you later for making this much sense.

[MrBuddyLee]

Sorry, I've been busy this weekend but popped in to read the thread. Posting so Mith doesn't have to waste time sending me a prod. I am going to read Gaspar's recent posts again tomorrow to see if they make sense as town play.

[MrBuddyLee]

Shit, I had a great post going and my computer crashed. Fucking Vista.

I think Gaspar looks unSCAPE if you read D1 carefully. Not for his stance on Faerie or Niv, but for his analysis of their interaction. It looks like he was snowed, and he didn't fake it. Ultimately, I don't think Gaspar is SCAPE.

Gaspar, based on the quality of Niv's and Faerielord's distancing, who are your top suspects for their scumpartner?

I reread Sableheart+Thesp and didn't like their game-long tango. Always suspecting, never acting, and Thesp just removed MS from his list entirely when I don't see that MS has done anything townish. MS keeps Thesp 4/5 but never really seems to be "looking" at him.

Thesp and MS, what are your current opinions of each other?

destructor feels ok to me. Rogueben reads townish. CKD looks disinterested, but was early on Niv. If I die tonight, be wary of a possible Gaspar+Xtoxm scumpair. Outside shot at shenanigans, but please keep an eye out for it just in case.

Rereading Nab and vollkan in more detail now.

[MrBuddyLee]

Terrible suspicions list, voted me, Pooky all game and bused Niv. Percentage of scumminess lists not compelling at all, look like filler.

Can't keep his story straight. Last post:

You insinuate that destructor's play is anti-town (I disagree, per my previous post)

This post he lists destructor #2. I smell made-up suspicions.

Also, "Roadie"?

vote: vollkan

[MrBuddyLee]

Also, Monsieur Sableheart's attempt to get me Condorcet-lynched while appearing to support a vollkan lynch is noted.

Note to "Zodiac Killer": if you really exist and are gunning for scum, I am not one of them. Hopefully you have figured that out already. Take out Sableheart, I think he's a solid target.

Note to town: Zodiac Detective would be a fantastic scum safeclaim. Be wary.

[MrBuddyLee]

I am probably going to get nailed by an SK tonight for this if there is one, but I am pretty sure after a reread that NabNab is actually the Zodiac Killer. Scum, please take him out tonight, and good luck tomorrow town.

[MrBuddyLee]

I investigated BBMars for what looked like general lurkery, so at least my sanity is confirmed.

What, you wouldn't figure it out after your second "guilty" on a "Zodiac Killer"? I call bullshit...

[MrBuddyLee]

Because even if I'm wrong, I'll be killed to frame NabNab. Bah!

[MrBuddyLee]

Claim or die - none of this waiting until the last minute crap.

No. I don't see a case against me, from you or anyone else. The game is played as thus:

1) You scumbags try and trick town into voting for people like me by making bogus cases
2) I rebut your case
3) Savvy town don't buy your bogus cases, while scum hop merrily aboard
4) I spot the scum and the town by their reactions
5) I claim only if I see that enough town have been fooled to endanger me

At this point, we're not even at (1). I'm going to make my own cases in a moment, and they will be the real deal, unlike the work of those who make cases on me. For example, Michel insinuates that I'm the Zodiac killer, which is bizarre and unfounded.

[MrBuddyLee]

1) You scumbags try and trick town into voting for people like me by making bogus cases

and what was your role during the OGML lynch?

I dunno, let's see how you felt about it.

my current read of MBL, is that he is a townie, tunnel visioning on OGML...not seeing his attack as a scum move, currently

Keep your story straight there, hombre. Also:

Also, I want more from MBL today…lurking because you lead the charge against a townie is scummy, why aren’t you trying to redeem yourself today?

Reads like you know my alignment. You also list me low on your Condorcet in that post. Did I suddenly become a viable part of your master plan today? If not, why are you suddenly trying to paint me as scummy for actions you formerly found townish?

[MrBuddyLee]

Gaspar, you called me self-involved earlier in this game, and I didn't fight it because to some extent it's true re: mafia. I think you can more readily assess legitimacy in cases against yourself than you can cases against others. As you may have noted, my playstyle leads to people making cases against me, quite often scum and occasionally town give it a shot. It's surprisingly easy to tell the difference when it's you yourself that's under fire. In a recently-completed game, I was lynched for controversial and ultimately accurate play, but three of the four voters on me were scum who overextended themselves and they got nailed in rapid succession for it over the next few days.

So bring on the cases, please. "Vote: MBL" is not sufficient to track down scum. In the meantime, I'm going to go examine "vote: vollkan"s, "vote: M-M"s and "vote: OGML"s. Peace out.

[MrBuddyLee]

Was I the only person who would have killed NabNab as a vig yesterday? To me, there were holes in his story and the claim looked like the brilliant creation of a serial killer.

[MrBuddyLee]

yesterday's 11th hour disappearance, which was unusual and unhelpful, particularly since claiming would have been useful at that time.

Right, it makes perfect sense for THREE people to claim. You do realize that's what you guys were asking for end of yesterday? About as scummy as it gets... I didn't disappear, but I did refuse to claim in that situation. And I was significantly involved at the end of yesterday. This bunch has forced several dead town to claim already, and I'm not going to be the next guy with a role to get outed. Or be the guy without a role to make your job easier finding any remaining roles. What are your pro-town credentials again, Thesp? Besides the oily Gaspar proclaiming you as such? And do you see his trust of you as founded? Cause I don't. I see kiss-ass.

Throw in the similarities in you "finding something scummy" in a player and not divulging it, which harkened back to your scum-ness in Face-To-Face

I believe I posted my several finds about Gaspar in my very next post, all of which were acknowledged as real. To MichelSableheart's credit, he found them as well, so mission accomplished, I am more comfortable with at least one person in this game as a result of my ploy. Your attempt to tie my townish play this game to my scummy play in that game is noted.

[MrBuddyLee]

Brad Delf, Vanilla. I'd appreciate it if you'd give me time to scumhunt before you hammer, cause I don't see my claim changing what's about to happen. View quick hammers here as scummy, folks.

[MrBuddyLee]

I'd think at least one person would have the common sense to unvote. There's no hurry to lynch me, and we're way short on information today. Also, there's a lot of setup discussion to be had based on what we know now. It would be to scum's benefit to lynch me right now, and as the cliche goes, they wouldn't take a ton of shit for it.

[MrBuddyLee]

Hey, I've been rereading and taking notes on the game. I will definitely have a compelling post in the next day or so... just pulled an all-nighter for work so I won't be able to wrap it up yet. There are definitely some questions I'd like answered before sunset, but I'm going to try not to do this scattershot.

Obviously, it'll be to your benefit to work some other people over today in preparation for my town cardflip. I'd really like to avoid getting lynched as town (2nd time ever, both times with Glork) but this time it'll be more my own fault if it happens. Trying to get these cases together in time to make a difference.

[MrBuddyLee]

No ways out. Life's bitten me on the ass, and this is probably an idiotic thing to do but I don't see any other way to survive in this game at this point.

I'm the Zodiac Killer. I have inside information on the setup, which explains why I know what's going on in the basement. I am NK-immune and if I encode a secret message in my posts each day, I earn a roleblock. I think, but am not positive, that I may be responsible for the dearth of nightkills this game, as I may have blocked kills twice. Which is why I strongly recommend we lynch MichelSableheart immediately. 95% certainty he is a member of SCAPE. And my role PM hints that the scumgroup is a group of women and their handler, so there's probably one more SCAPE out there in addition to the scum that is Michel.

Not that you have a reason to trust me over him, but you can kill me any time, including tomorrow, if I make a mistake.

The right play here is to use my NK to narrow down the number of scum. I've already hit two--plus the guy who was looking for me. Lynch Michel and tell me who to kill overnight. (Sorry, I had no choice there, as you can understand, otherwise the trap springs.)

-

Z

odi

a

c

vote: MichelSableheart

[MrBuddyLee]

Brilliant, thank you mith.

Teammates, I'm sorry I let you down. Nothing I did remotely resembled scumhunting D1/2. Yuck.

Nice work, town. Way to clean house.

Sarcastro has a glazed look in his eyes. He ignores the question and instead says:

"There must be some way out of here."

He blinks, and shakes his head.

Sarc=Joker, IH=Thief