California Trilogy - Going to San Francisco (Game Over!)

[Mr. Grey]

Vote Count:

5 to lynch.

MrBuddyLee: 4 (Gaspar, MichelSableheart, Thesp, Xtoxm/MeMe)

Current Condorcet Winner:

MrBuddyLee

To view the complete table of pairwise results, put this information in this form.

[MeMe]

I plugged the information into the form...and, though impressive, it just makes me quite glad it's only expected that I provide filler to prevent Xtoxm's replacement.

Easy peasy.

[curiouskarmadog]

back earlier than I thought, need to read the last page or so to see what I have missed, though it doest appear to be anything worth while..also note that Thesp has avoided my question again, why is that?

thesp..please answer my questions..and this time include why you keep avoiding answering it today, because I would like the information before tomorrow.

why do you find me more scummy than everyone else beside MBL?

mostly posting to avoid a strike/warning.

[curiouskarmadog]

also and if I miss it...MBL, you claim was missing a secret word..please provide.

[MichelSableheart]

CKD, the claims of OGML, Niv and Vollkan also didn't have secret words. Why are you asking for a secret word from MBL now, if you didn't ask for their secret words?

[Rogueben]

Not liking the fishing from MS.

I want to see what MBL comes up with in his scumhunting. I think that allowing him to post his suspicions now will only benefit us in the long run.

Because of that blatant fishing I will put my vote on Sableheart while I wait for MBL's post.

Vote: MichelSableheart

[destructor]

Not especially. MBL has a habit of saying weird things to "obfuscate the truth" (as I believe he once put it in the past) when acting (or prentending to act) on information. Plus, my initial vote for OGML (Post 523) was BEFORE that post. If you look at all posts by Gaspar and scroll to 54 and 55, you will see that I unvoted OGML and voted OGML... which would actually be a point in my favor if I were to use the "inattentiveness" defense.

Eh, I probably should have include the first OGML vote. I included the second post in entirety because it showed that you were only revoting to reset your condorcet.

And what do you mean by saying MBL obfuscates the truth? You're saying he'd overtly imply that he didn't have a result when he really did?

[Thesp]

I want to see what MBL comes up with in his scumhunting. I think that allowing him to post his suspicions now will only benefit us in the long run.

Have you liked his scumhunting so far?

What do you think of the assertions Gaspar and I have made re: MichelSableheart's unlikeliness of making up his uncertainty about having a day-ability?

Re: curiouskarmadog, the short answer includes that I think everyone else is more likely to be townie than you, I'm still a little unsettled by you and the basement, and aside from the day you arrived out, you've felt really, really off to me. And I'm a bit surprised at just

how

uptight you've been about me including you as

second

on a Condorcet list and demanding reasons.

[curiouskarmadog]

CKD, the claims of OGML, Niv and Vollkan also didn't have secret words. Why are you asking for a secret word from MBL now, if you didn't ask for their secret words?

I believe vollkan provided one..

why indeed?...quit role fishing.

[curiouskarmadog]

thesp, so basically because I was in the basement? Because the fact that I am "uptight" about being second on your list doesnt not put me second on the list. the effect has nothing to do with the cause.

and for the record, I am not uptight because I am second..I am uptight, because you would not provide reason then avoided the question numerous times.

[Thesp]

How did you get this:

thesp, so basically because I was in the basement?

From this:

the short answer includes that I think everyone else is more likely to be townie than you, I'm still a little unsettled by you and the basement, and aside from the day you arrived out, you've felt really, really off to me.

?

I'm not sure why you redacted the other two reasons I have (which are more important to me). Also,

Because the fact that I am "uptight" about being second on your list doesnt not put me second on the list. the effect has nothing to do with the cause.

I agree with that, which is why I didn't list it as a reason I put you second on my Condorcet. It's just confirming your place there for me. Why the baseless attack here?

[Rogueben]

Have you liked his scumhunting so far?

Obviously he hasn't been accurate so far. He's also pursued lynches based on not much with strong conviction (see OGML). However, regardless of this and regardless of alignment, hearing what he says before he is lynched can only help in my opinion.

What do you think of the assertions Gaspar and I have made re: MichelSableheart's unlikeliness of making up his uncertainty about having a day-ability?

I'm not exactly sure about MS's claim. It struck me as quite odd at the time. I don't understand how someone can have confusion about having an ability. I don't think it actually makes a difference to his alignment though as I can imagine scum power claiming vanilla with benefits just in case they get tracked.
I really need to reread the MS claim though as I am a bit rusty on the details.

[destructor]

What do you think of the assertions Gaspar and I have made re: MichelSableheart's unlikeliness of making up his uncertainty about having a day-ability?

I'm not sure what Rogueben thinks, but I find it a complete null-tell for easily accessible reasons. If anything, it may have been overplayed. I can't remember Gaspar making a point of that, but now that you've said you do, I think I need to take a much harder look at your posts.

[Thesp]

Have you liked his scumhunting so far?

Obviously he hasn't been accurate so far. He's also pursued lynches based on not much with strong conviction (see OGML). However, regardless of this and regardless of alignment, hearing what he says before he is lynched can only help in my opinion.

We're doing that. What do you think of MBL's alignment?

What do you think of the assertions Gaspar and I have made re: MichelSableheart's unlikeliness of making up his uncertainty about having a day-ability?

I'm not exactly sure about MS's claim. It struck me as quite odd at the time. I don't understand how someone can have confusion about having an ability. I don't think it actually makes a difference to his alignment though as I can imagine scum power claiming vanilla with benefits just in case they get tracked.

How is it difficult to imagine someone having confusion about their role? Keep in mind that the issue is whether or not he was able to fake confusion - do double-check that, as I'm not sure what the rest of your last sentence is saying here. (If he's mafia, he has a night ability. His confusion seems genuine about not having a night ability. Look it over.)

[Thesp]

What do you think of the assertions Gaspar and I have made re: MichelSableheart's unlikeliness of making up his uncertainty about having a day-ability?

I'm not sure what Rogueben thinks, but I find it a complete null-tell for easily accessible reasons. If anything, it may have been overplayed. I can't remember Gaspar making a point of that, but now that you've said you do, I think I need to take a much harder look at your posts.

:banghead:

It seems so obvious to me that he is what he is. I'm having a very, very hard time imagining why it's not as obvious to everyone else, especially when it's been pointed out as such.

[curiouskarmadog]

Because the fact that I am "uptight" about being second on your list doesnt not put me second on the list. the effect has nothing to do with the cause.

I agree with that, which is why I didn't list it as a reason I put you second on my Condorcet. It's just confirming your place there for me. Why the baseless attack here?

baseless attacks? Man, I just wanted you to answer a question. There was nothing baseless about the FACT you avoided the question.

as to the other "reasons" that you feel is important. "you felt really really off to me" is really a cop out to the answer and is nothing but, "I have a vibe about you". Wow what an easy answer to fall back on..nothing concrete all personal. I dont have a problem with "vibes", I have a problem with you not saying that when I first asked the question. Are you embarassed that you really have no reason to put me second on your list when you did?

Again, you really dont explain how "the way you arrived here" has to do with me being scummy...so there only REAL concrete thing that you have is that I was in the basement and now, I have a problem with you avoiding questions ("uptight")...

[Rogueben]

We're doing that. What do you think of MBL's alignment?

I think at this point he is 70/30 Scum/Town. I'm particularly not liking todays play from him, especially the mass omgus that Gaspar pointed out and the setup speculation comment that you pointed out. That being said there's no rush here, and I would like to get his opinions before we move on.

How is it difficult to imagine someone having confusion about their role? Keep in mind that the issue is whether or not he was able to fake confusion - do double-check that, as I'm not sure what the rest of your last sentence is saying here.

I do plan on rereading that, probably tomorrow sometime. In the meantime what I find difficult to imagine is someone not knowing whether they have an ability or not. If it was unclear from his role pm whether he had an ability I would have thought that he would have checked with mith to see.

I think ckd's reaction seems protown, he looks like he's overreacting out of frustration from lack of evidence. It's pretty common for townies to get frustrated and push a point.

@Thesp. Let's see some more accountability for your CKD placement.
What is it about the basement situation that makes you think he's 2nd most likely to be scum?
Is there anything else (besides the reaction to this placing)?
What is it about everyone else that makes you think they are more protown?

(I told you I could post for now I'm on holidays )

[Thesp]

baseless attacks? Man, I just wanted you to answer a question. There was nothing baseless about the FACT you avoided the question.

The baseless attack was how you implied that you were second on my condorcet

because

of how you reacted to being on the condorcet, here:

Because the fact that I am "uptight" about being second on your list doesnt not put me second on the list. the effect has nothing to do with the cause.

That's

what's baseless.

You also have yet to show that my delay in providing reasons for you being on the list is scummy (as you have quite strongly implied). I wanted to see your reactions if I waited, and I got them, and I think they're quite useful, thank you very much.

"you felt really really off to me" is really a cop out to the answer and is nothing but, "I have a vibe about you". Wow what an easy answer to fall back on..nothing concrete all personal. I dont have a problem with "vibes", I have a problem with you not saying that when I first asked the question. Are you embarassed that you really have no reason to put me second on your list when you did?

I'm confused - you have nothing against vibes, but you assert vibes are "no reason"? You're also acting as though I hadn't expressed this yesterday anyway - my discomfort with you is nothing new, just reasserted. Yesterday you attempted to dissuade an MBL claim, you throw out a number of suspicions all over the place, you attack Gaspar and Xtoxm (who are way closer to the townie side of things to me), and post very little about the three top lynch candidates yesterday. You can call that "just vibes" if you want, they make me more suspicious of you than the other players.

Again, you really dont explain how "the way you arrived here" has to do with me being scummy...so there only REAL concrete thing that you have is that I was in the basement

I'm mildly unsettled with the thought of three pro-town players having been in the basement together. I can imagine reasons for it, and it's tantamount to outguessing the mod, so it's nowhere near justification alone for seeing you lynched. When coupled with other troubles I have of you, it's a little bit more reason to think you're scum.

Is that clear enough for you?

[MichelSableheart]

Fishing? Rolefishing? My post definately wasn't intended as such. I noticed a change in CKD's behaviour (he didn't ask OGML, Niv or Vollkan for their secret words, he did ask MBL for his secret word), and wanted to know if there was a reason for that. I expected to hear a change of opinion regarding secret words, possibly combined with the fact that CKD wasn't there when Niv claimed, and didn't log in after Vollkan claimed. I did not regard my question as being role related.

However, RogueBen's response strikes me as extremely odd: as if he knows that CKD's role has something to do with the secret words. But that is info RogueBen isn't supposed to have, and might imply scumteam. Thoughts, anyone?

I believe vollkan provided one..

Vollkan said he had one, but didn't mention what it was.

I don't understand how someone can have confusion about having an ability. I don't think it actually makes a difference to his alignment though as I can imagine scum power claiming vanilla with benefits just in case they get tracked.

I have already explained this. The fact that it explicitly denied I had night abilities, yet didn't mention day abilities in any way, was what set me thinking about the possibility. I still haven't noticed anything about a day ability, however.

Unvote

Vote:

MrBuddyLee

, Rogueben, Xtoxm, destructor, Thesp, curiouskarmadog, Gaspar, {IH, Sarcastro}, Mr. Grey, No Lynch, MichelSableheart

[MichelSableheart]

Sorry, that isn't a vote change, and therefore shouldn't be there. I was thinking about moving CKD up, but desided against it in the end.

[Gaspar]

And what do you mean by saying MBL obfuscates the truth? You're saying he'd overtly imply that he didn't have a result when he really did?

I see that as being entirely reasonable coming from MBL. Hell, I'd probably do the same thing if I felt I had come across as being entirely too obvious -- which is what I had gathered from MBL as is.



In other news, I really want to lynch Rogueben after his vote for Sablehart, though I'm not taking my eyes off the MBL prize.

Unvote, Vote: Rogueben

, MrBuddyLee

[curiouskarmadog]

Is there anything else (besides the reaction to this placing)?

again, my "reaction" has a.) nothing to do with the placement, it is his lack of explanation that caused the "reaction" and b.) came after the placement...so my reaction has absolutely nothing to do with the placement.

I'm confused - you have nothing against vibes, but you assert vibes are "no reason"? You're also acting as though I hadn't expressed this yesterday anyway - my discomfort with you is nothing new, just reasserted. Yesterday you attempted to dissuade an MBL claim, you throw out a number of suspicions all over the place, you attack Gaspar and Xtoxm (who are way closer to the townie side of things to me), and post very little about the three top lynch candidates yesterday. You can call that "just vibes" if you want, they make me more suspicious of you than the other players.

Gaspar was calling for three people to claim, I didnt think that was necessary or exact protown (I guess you did). I thought that vollkan and/or NN was scum, and didnt see MBL as such. I still dont like X, would you explain why you think he is so town, the only reason I even backed off X yesterday was I took Gaspar's defense of him as a soft claim.

Now you are adding reasons to the why you think I am scummy. Why couldnt you just say this when I asked you the first time? Why did I have to press you for it? If you think I am scummy, dont you want the whole town to know why? Why did I have to ask you 4 times to give out this information?

[curiouskarmadog]

Fishing? Rolefishing? My post definately wasn't intended as such. I noticed a change in CKD's behaviour (he didn't ask OGML, Niv or Vollkan for their secret words, he did ask MBL for his secret word), and wanted to know if there was a reason for that. I expected to hear a change of opinion regarding secret words, possibly combined with the fact that CKD wasn't there when Niv claimed, and didn't log in after Vollkan claimed. I did not regard my question as being role related.

there is a reason for it...why else would I be asking for it? I bet if you think real hard, you might figure out why I am asking for it now.

However, RogueBen's response strikes me as extremely odd: as if he knows that CKD's role has something to do with the secret words. But that is info RogueBen isn't supposed to have, and might imply scumteam. Thoughts, anyone?

It is pretty obvious why I am asking for it...you are just the one who decided to make the big deal out of it....so a big hand clap to you.

I believe vollkan provided one..

Vollkan said he had one, but didn't mention what it was.

someone else mentioned one..it must have been Nab.

[MrBuddyLee]

Hey, I've been rereading and taking notes on the game. I will definitely have a compelling post in the next day or so... just pulled an all-nighter for work so I won't be able to wrap it up yet. There are definitely some questions I'd like answered before sunset, but I'm going to try not to do this scattershot.

Obviously, it'll be to your benefit to work some other people over today in preparation for my town cardflip. I'd really like to avoid getting lynched as town (2nd time ever, both times with Glork) but this time it'll be more my own fault if it happens. Trying to get these cases together in time to make a difference.

[curiouskarmadog]

avoiding my question?