Undertale Mafia: Friends & Corpses [GAME OVER]

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Gut read whileni can't sleep. SirCakez Narna Massive scum.

Will explain after work tomorrow.

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03 Giovanni il Pellegrino - even night weak-follower. claims a clear on me N2 and Narna N4
04 Maxous - roleblocker.
11 Nahdia* - Jailkeeper
14 Ankamius* - something with complex mechanics i think. can potentially kill?
18 Narna - psychiatrist. claims a clear on Nahdia and Massive. Notably claimed a guilty on town-Shiro

that's all the official claims i can remember

Who's scum and why?

if you can figure this out we'll give you the MVP

i'm voting Almost cause he's been very unuseful and tunneled on town-Titus

Nadhia* Fuck Autocorrect

I think Narna is town.

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Shiro the rolecop said Cakez was likely town.
Narna scum requires Giovanni scum, he claimed a Weak clear on Narna.

pedit: Nahdia is the correct spelling, and so you've seen the claims, good.

No it doesn't. It requires Giovanni busdriven or Giovanni liar or some kind of other effect.

This game is bastard we have yet to see the bastard components therefore we must focus less on roles and more on reads.

[MathBlade]

Giovanni lying means Giovanni scum. busdriven Giovanni requires a busdriver no one has seen any evidence of.
all investigatives so far have their results returned properly with names, and while this game is bastard due to certain mechanics i very much doubt we would be being purposely mislead with how night results are worded, by an experienced mod who just made the long post above.

aside from that, i just wanted to make sure you had the investigations and such taken into account.

Let's assume what you say is true.

Then what is bastard about this game?

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It looks like this game is specifically designed to avoid setup spec and brutally penalize people who try to play it as a puzzle rather than mafia.

Giovanni voting Narna now is of interest to me however.

Ank and Almost 50 go on my WTF list FYI

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I will keep it in mind as I go further on in my analysis but I don't see why Narna as scum would fake a guilty. An innocent sure as when I was scum in 1800 we had a buddy fake an innocent.

However Narna's guilty and saying they had a guilty more than likely implies that Narna probably targeted a different slot (guessing Ank based on how his play changed).

Faking a guilty is dumb for scum when behind and even dumber when they are rampaging like this. I don't see scum faking a guilty here especially when they could have just bussed Narna.

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Give out a real innocent*

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'when they could have just bussed Narna'. if Narna is scum, he's already caught, so him faking a guilty to get a townie lynched (which worked, i might add) is a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

No. Narna was a wagon just like before. Narna was one shot governed by town. If Narna had a guilty and was looking to save their ass why not do it then?

Faking the guilty on Shiro was even more dumb because Shiro was a claimed Miller. I would have ignored the guilty as town derp on Narna's part and see if Shiro deserved the votes he had.

If Narna is scum though then SirCakez is almost conf scum levels of bad for the attempted bus.

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Like no scum have been lynched so far. So assuming dumb scum is unlikely.

I am going to try to sleep again good night.

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At work I am not in a neighborhood. I replaced Creature.

@Mod can you please let me know if I am supposed to be in a hood?

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Nahdia, were you the one who said a massclaim wouldn't help us?

I am against mass claim. Pants are awesome. They are shiny and robust.

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I may have been wrong on Creature being in the hood. Not sure exactly where I got that information, I thought it was Andrius' ISO but looking again I don't see it. That would explain Titus being in the hood, so I'm probably just incorrect. Sorry for the confusion there.

No I think you are fishing for who is making everyone in that hood probably town.

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Or at least not scum. In Andrius's case probably SK or town prob not group scum. Leaning latter but SK possible.

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Nahdia you have done the translations for the wingdings posts I think. Would you please post them?

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I know it seems random but I promise there is a point.

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Furthermore, since this has apparently become a serious point of contention for reasons that are beyond my cognitive abilities, I would like to reassure everyone that no, not every player in this game is aligned with the Town faction. That would be fucking stupid.

the best evidence for town Narna right now is him never claiming to be roleblocked, in my opinion.

Town Narna would defo have been blocked

Narna is going to swing from the rafters today and any Narna sympathizer can join them

This is horrible and wifom. Since theme games don't have to follow the wiki a psychologist may only work on an SK or other means unknown to us.

The main thing we know is that Narna's last result is flawed. This means all other results must be taken with a grain of salt.

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Did you do it for the VC and I missed it? Sorry I found the summary post and missed those. Was in a hurry.

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I may have been wrong on Creature being in the hood. Not sure exactly where I got that information, I thought it was Andrius' ISO but looking again I don't see it. That would explain Titus being in the hood, so I'm probably just incorrect. Sorry for the confusion there.

No I think you are fishing for who is making everyone in that hood probably town.

I have no idea what you mean by this. I'm setting you up to be townread because... we're scum together?

No. You are not setting me up for anything as I am town.

However you want to know who is in the hood likely because I believe there is no scum in it. By asking if I was in it twice you could ascertain things about it.

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There is no town benefit to hood hunting.

This is useless. Hunt scum not info.

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That may be possible but IMHO unlikely. I think Sircakes is scum. He is giving off similar tells and massive is pretty much taking up the scum slot of wagoning on most lynches plus I am not a fan of both their ISOs.

If scum do have eyes and Sircakes claimed a role of some benefit or action he would have to claim blocked or be outed. If scum do have eyes it gives them time.

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Furthermore why have none of your targets Nahdia confirmed to be roleblocked? If anything I have a hunch of what is going on but I haven't played enough Undertale to confirm it and I need to look at the wiki.

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On the contrary. What I am thinking is in the intro level of Undertale there is a level with some sort of leaves. If you don't walk the right path then you go somewhere other than where you intended. What I am wondering is if that is happening to people's actions.

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I just am going off knowledge of playing it a year ago and the wiki. So I am thinking there is some kind of shifting going on. Too many people have had actions messed with and what I need time to do after work is see if they are all off by a set number. To see if the information can be made useful.

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...I'm familiar with the room, yes. I'm not sure what your point is. It's a really really minor part of the game, not something I would use as a heavy thematic influence if I were designing a setup around Undertale. And although this game is bastard, we've been told our roles function as intended.

If you need Undertale trivia, I can help. If you need it from someone who isn't me for whatever reason, ask Not Chara.

They do function as intended but not on the right target is my hunch. Either scum are shifting the map or massive bus driver. Too many discrepancies in the info.

[MathBlade]

It also balances with the pacifist *squee* and the murderous extent of the game as well if depending upon what actions the rest of the game takes the targets may change or be off a set amount.

Too much discrepancy. I have to get back to work but that is what I am thinking.

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It's possible except that the investigators are saying they receive their target's names in their results. That'd be an outright lie from the mod (which Skull said wouldn't happen) if they were actually redirected. So it can't be happening to them, at the very least.

Are you getting the name?

[MathBlade]

Yes. That is one possibility. Another is you are a liar. A third that would explain Narna's "guilty" is a psychologist is not an investigative in my home site. So you could have been not redirected N3 and Narna was to set up a mislynch combo. Lots of options but this many discrepancies means going back to Mafia and not info.

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-

Narna did you get the name?

[MathBlade]

to avoid casting suspicion on Nahdia and/or Maxous for roleblocking investigatives? because targets have been telegraphed? because one or more of the investigatives are scum? it could be any number of things. i think we've reached the limits of this line of thinking without a massclaim. i keep bringing it up as an option because the number of unclaimed/hinted players is very small.

I disagree there is a lot that can be found out.

Please don't mass claim please give me time to analyze this.

Three people literally just joined the game. Mass claim here is dumb without myself and others being able to interact.

Give me a chance tonight to work off the claims so I can see what theories are the most likely.

[MathBlade]

Spoiler: Brief Game Summary

Day 1

Various wagons are tested, Magna is eventually lynched.


Also during this day, the deadline was mysteriously extended by over 100 years after 516 occurred. Wingdings have become a common theme during the game and I’ll discuss them in more detail in the scum team speculation section.

Day 2

Narna and McMenno become competing counterwagons, ending with McMenno being lynched. From 4009 onward, ALL mod communication in thread becomes wingdings. Since McMenno’s flip is obscured by this, I’ll post the translation here:
McMenno was sans, town lazy coroner.
nighttime abilities: during the night phase, you may select any dead player in the game to learn who targeted that player with a killing action on the night that they died. if this player was targeted by more than one killing action, you will learn the identities of all of that player's killers. you may only use this ability starting on night 7.
(yes, it was all in lower case)

Day 3

Because McMenno flipped town, Narna is quickly wagoned. However, Leonshade uses his governor ability to save them. Leonshade is eventually lynched for this.

Day 4

Narna’s psychologist role (which detects if a player has or has ever had access to a kill) gets a “guilty” on Shiro, who denies ever having access to a kill. He is however a miller, which he claimed day 1. Narna asks in private Skullduggery if millers would show as “guilty” on her check and is told they will not. However, Shiro amends his miller claim to global miller, which returns all investigative results as if he were a scum-aligned player. Ankamius (also a miller) backs this up saying his role functions similarly.


As of 5802, the deadline this day was suddenly slashed by a roughly a week.

Spoiler: All Claims

I’m including in this softs, since I doubt much has escaped a full scumteam’s notice.


Worth noting that investigative roles receive full reports including the target’s name, which means speculation as to possible busdrivers is faulty. Titus (dead town) confirms this in 3633. Giovanni and Narna have both confirmed this as well.

SirCakez:

No claim. However his role has been made public in a neighborhood which I believe consists currently of Firebringer, Andrius, and Creature (?) as Shiro was in it previously and had rolecopped him. This is stated in 6187. He did as of 6213 state he was roleblocked, indicating his role is one which gets some sort of feedback.

Giovanni il Pellegrino:

Weak unclaimed investigative role. First claimed weak in 4483 (Day 3), first claimed investigative in 4541, as of 6162 he confirms his role receives feedback. He confirms in 6322 that his weak modifier triggers any time he targets anyone who is not town. In 4539 he also states his role is even-night only. He claims to have targeted Maxous night 2 and Narna night 4.

Maxous:

Roleblocker. Claimed 3625 (Day 2) Claims to have roleblocked Shiro night 1, which is confirmed by earlier Shiro in 3541. Night 2 and 3 actions not claimed (??). Night 4 block was Creature, claimed in 6361.

Creature:

No claim to my knowledge.

PeregrineV:

No claim to my knowledge.

Nahdia:

Jailkeeper. First claimed 2136 (you can find a working link for the audio in 4104, though I should mentioned Skullduggery asked that no one else do this). My role allows other people to target my target, just not kill them. I targeted zakk night 1, massive night 2, no one night 3, and Maxous night 4. Obviously I was either roleblocked night 1 or there was a strongkill, since zakk died. Claimed my night 1 action in 3430, night 2 action in 4353 (should note i was wrong about my role mechanics in that post), night 3 action in 5964, night 4 action on 6216. Flavor claimed (well, heavily softed but by writing it here I confirm it) Muffet.

Firebringer:

Neighborizer. I don’t know the order of the targets, but it seems to have at certain points contained himself, Andrius, Creature, Titus, and Shiro. Not 100% where this was claimed. Andrius mentions Titus was a neighbor in 6165 and refers again to a hood in 6184.

Not Chara:

No claim to my knowledge.

Ankamius:

In 126, Ankamius states that he has a miller state, a hated state, and benefits from hammering. In 5976, he clarifies that his miller state returns guilties on all investigatives.

BigYoshiFan:

No claim to my knowledge.

Narna:

Psychologist; claims to be told whether a player has or has ever had the ability to kill each night. First claims this in 4238 (I feel like it was earlier but can’t find anything?). Also in that post claims to have checked massive night 2, they cannot kill.. In 4246 Narna claims to have missed the deadline for submitting an action on Night 1. They got a “guilty” on Shiro on Night 3, as of post 5676. Claimed to have gotten a “cannot kill” on myself in 6164. Flavor claimed Gerson.

Almost50:

Heavily softed supersaint with flavor “Annoying Dog”. Supersaint softs include 940 and 947 (Gamma Emerald is the spot’s predecessor). I make a nod at Almost50’s role in 4950 and Almost50 acknowledges I know his role in 4957 and totally confirms it in 5116. Flavor soft of Annoying Dog is in posts 6124 and 6125.

Andrius:

...I’m not sure, really. Andrius flavor claims Frisk all over the place. Makes allusion to possible pacifist and genocide routes in 3135 and 4057 and a bunch of other places but I’m not sure what they mean. In 5922 he claims Titus knew his role, perhaps it’s stated in the neighborhood? In 6165 he says Titus knows his “secret”.

massive:

Softed fruit vendor in 4219. I know his flavor, but I’ll let him decide if he wants it outed.

See? It's posts like these that make it hard for me to actually scum read Nahdia no matter how paranoid I am about them overall. No scum goes through al this trouble to explain the game to others who have just joined in.

Oh, and for the record: I'm neither Vengeful not SuperSaint either. I do NOT have the capacity to kill either during my life or after I get killed/lynched. I'm still going to be Super ANNOYING though.

It is NAI. I have done that as town and scum. Remember how in Gistou someone says you don't make a thirty player wall as scum? I did. Effort doesn't mean town.

Shadowrun Mafia I gave town the probabilities I already did.

Effort or lack there of is NAI sans context.

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Hell you should know this. You were in Gistou.

*playfully smacks Almost50* You are derping or scum.

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I don't think we should massclaim. We should just scumhunt.

This. Has been my point.

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massive is pretty much taking up the scum slot of wagoning on most lynches

So I guess I should ask again, if Narna is town, why isn't his innocent on me any good? You seem to be happily avoiding this.

Also, if it's worth anything, I have not been redirected.

I am not avoiding it.

I have explicitly stated that Narna's guilty on Shiro was bad this means all other claims must be investigated. Until I get a chance to sit down and look at all the claimed actions and piece then together and study things like redirects and sanities and other things there are no innocents or results.

[MathBlade]

The people in that hood currently are Accountant, Pine, and Mathblade.

So, the 3 who got force replaced ARE the 3 sharing a neighbourhood?? And what IS SC's role? Do we know it or is it just those in the neighbourhood? And if the latter, how do we know one of them isn't scum and that's why the role leaked out?

Again let me reiterate I am not in a neighborhood.

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At work I am not in a neighborhood. I replaced Creature.

@Mod can you please let me know if I am supposed to be in a hood?

...Not in a hood.

[MathBlade]

Nahdia, were you the one who said a massclaim wouldn't help us?

No.

another question: where did Firebringer claim neighbourizer where Nahdia could see? i don't remember that claim.

If you want to subtly sling mud at me you're gonna have to try a lot harder than that.

This is me confirming that Firebringer is a Neighborizer.
I crumbed being neighborized a few times.
The N1 target did as well.

Shiro was last night's addition and a certain Baker was not trilled with the addition.

Ok, so therein lies the key to solve the puzzle. Either Firebringer is a SCUM Neighbourizer, or Creature is the scum member of that neighbourhood.

Andrius is the one who leaked SC's role, right? And Titus got shot bc of something she said in there. If we lynch withing Accountant/Mathblade we have a RED FLIP guaranteed. The thing is we need to lynch the right one to prevent the town slipping closer to a horrific defeat.

@Neighbourhood members:

Could you please reread the whole thing (your PT) and look for clues to have us make the correct lynch between Math & Accountant?

Again I AM NOT IN ANY HOOD read what I type

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I have sent a PM to the mod and asked openly but for accusing someone else of not reading you sure as hell aren't.

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Mod got back to me I am not in a hood.

Or at least not scum. In Andrius's case probably SK or town prob not group scum. Leaning latter but SK possible.

It simply is NOT possible for everyone in there to be Town when:

1- SC's role get leaked in there and then he gets RB'd
2- Titus gets NK'd after joining (I still need to know WHEN she joined in).

IF we are to trust Andrius that Titus knew his role (she didn't object to his statement that she did) it makes Firebringer (Accountant now) the most likely scum person (yes, SCUM neighbourizer IS a thing, and especially so in a bastard game).

However, Andrius may have tricked Titus into believing he had a role that he didn't, and thus it could be still Andrius (Pine now) who is scum. The weak side of this narrative is how did he trick Titus into it w/o attracting Firebringer's attention? They must've talked to each other in the PT, and thus FB must've seen it too. However, Andrius kept saying TITUS knew his role, not Titus and Firebringer, although Andrius had already acknowledged he was neighbourized by FB anyway, but didn't mention Titus was until she flipped.

VOTE: Accountant

Oh yes it is and you only bring it up when I suggest the hood is a masonry? If you genuinely believed this you would have brought this up long before. Namely you would have been hood hunting for a different reason. What is much more likely is scum do not have eyes and it is a coincidence and could be using Nahdia as a puppet to their own will or Nahdia is scum. None of this at all has to do with the hood. You just wanted me or Accountant lynched and then when I poked an airplane sized hole through your bullshit you turned to Accountant.

You like aren't even trying to be coherent.

VOTE: Almost 50

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Fucking hell I claimed day 1. They could've been using me as their own roleblocker every night if they have a redirector.

ROTFL. And that IS why you don't claim early for no purpose or reason. Use your claim strategically. I'd suggest you stop submitting night actions if you're not a compulsive RB.

I would suggest that Nahdia not answer this.

If she is town then she then leaks more about their role and let scum know whether they have to redirect her or not.

If she is scum then same applies or she could be a liar.

Nothing is gained here by responding to this. Nahdia will do Nahdia.

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Fucking hell I claimed day 1. They could've been using me as their own roleblocker every night if they have a redirector.

ROTFL. And that IS why you don't claim early for no purpose or reason. Use your claim strategically. I'd suggest you stop submitting night actions if you're not a compulsive RB.

I would suggest that Nahdia not answer this.

If she is town then she then leaks more about their role and let scum know whether they have to redirect her or not.

If she is scum then same applies or she could be a liar.

Nothing is gained here by responding to this. Nahdia will do Nahdia.

Replace all she with they sorry *blush*

[MathBlade]

Just got off work. Grabbing dinner and paper and such to take notes on.

There is a lot here I just need to crawl through it.

[MathBlade]

Oh yes it is and you only bring it up when I suggest the hood is a masonry? If you genuinely believed this you would have brought this up long before. Namely you would have been hood hunting for a different reason. What is much more likely is scum do not have eyes and it is a coincidence and could be using Nahdia as a puppet to their own will or Nahdia is scum. None of this at all has to do with the hood. You just wanted me or Accountant lynched and then when I poked an airplane sized hole through your bullshit you turned to Accountant.

Didn't we already have a talk about you jumping the gun after a certain game where you insisted Mirhawk was the scum in there and town read the real mole?? Come on, Math. Do your thing, but don't repeat the same mistakes, my friend.

If it was a Masonry then Accountant would've got the role of a MASONIZER. A Neighbourizer will recruit ANYONE (i.e. no guarantee on their alignment) and when a "fake" guilty arises on one member, another member gets NK'd, and someone's role gets revealed in the neighbourhood and they get RB'd on the very following night then if follows that it's MUCH MORE LIKELY there is a traitor in there (as in, MOLE, not the "role" of a Traitor). You can't tell me SC got blocked the same night Titus got shot has more chance of being a coincidence than a planned scheme based on knowledge of info that otherwise should be privy to the neighbourhood members.

Just stopped at one of my stops.

A masonry is defined as a neighborhood with all town in it. It does not need to have been started by a masonizer.

Right now that is what I am thinking. However until I get home and crunch things and make sure I take everything into account I am saying there is no evidence other than speculation. I did the same speculation in Frozen Angel's game. I was right but that was because of hunches I had built constructively based on knowledge of the hood.

What you are proposing is pure speculation. That is why I said when I get home I will plot it out.

[MathBlade]

This seems like an impossible situation. Narna can't have gotten that result on Shiro unless Shiro was targeted by a super framer. But Giovanni didn't die visiting Narna, and actually confirms they got a result on Narna.

I dunno. Maybe someone was doctoring Giovanni. Maybe Narna is a reflexive doctor, or a super godfather, or maybe Giovanni is scum with Narna. I really don't see Giovanni as a possibility for scum.

I'm worried. BigYoshiFan pulled "5 scum" out of his ass or something and now it's occurring to me if that's actually the case, this is our last mislynch. After that, it's possible mylo if nothing changes. We need to start getting this right, dammit.

Giovanni saw Narna using an investigative action. Narna does have some sort of investigative role, unless Giovanni is scum. That's worth noting, I think.
I'm seriously frying here. Feels like my brain is a god damn hamster wheel and the hamster just keeled over and died.

I just got home. I will try performing CPR in a bit on your hamster. For now just ISO. Read people without the mechanics. What does that tell you?

[MathBlade]

So basically, now we can't assume Giovanni's innocents are accurate either.

Ank still working on my notes. Explain your miller, hated, and benefits from hammering please. I know you did just please do it again.

[MathBlade]

I forgot about this before because of the delay, but

my role has several different states it can have, and both Miller and Hated are part of those states.

By the same token, my role benefits from being on lynch wagons and hammering, so please be aware of this.

Specifically more details than this.

[MathBlade]

Day 1, Final Vote Count:

(2)

zakk -- MagnaofIllusion, massive

(0)

SirCakez

(0)

Yume

(0)

Maxous

(0)

Creature

(0)

PeregrineV

(1)

Titus -- SnarkySnowman

(1)

Shiro -- Titus

(12)

MagnaofIllusion -- zakk, Nahdia, Not Chara, Narna, Firebringer, Maxous, Creature, Gamma Emerald, Nosferatu, SirCakez, Leonshade, Shiro

(0)

Nosferatu

(1)

Nahdia -- Yume

(0)

Firebringer

(0)

Not Chara

(0)

Ankamius

(0)

SlySly

(0)

McMenno

(0)

SnarkySnowman

(3)

Narna -- McMenno, Andrius, Ankamius

(0)

Gamma Emerald

(0)

Leonshade

(0)

Andrius

(0)

massive

Not Voting:

SlySly, PeregrineV

With 22 votes available, it took 12 votes to hammer.

Specifically why did you not try to get benefits here?

[MathBlade]

And which state was active N2,3,and 4 I am not asking your role I am asking the state

[MathBlade]

Oh and N1 although admittedly it is less important to my theory.

[MathBlade]

Mainly I want to know the modifiers you had each day.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Unvote

Finally through day one now checking day two.

[MathBlade]

To everyone else: either you think Narna is scum, or you think both Shiro and I are scum.

There is

zero

room for error in this.

That is actually IMHO incorrect.

[MathBlade]

Giovanni Can you tell me what happens if you hit an ascetic please?

[MathBlade]

Narna you as well what happens if you target an ascetic?

[MathBlade]

I kinda want to vote for a draw

This was discussed in the hood last night and two of us are ok with this.

This post will be important.

[MathBlade]

I just got confirmation from Skull that Shiro was a standard miller, as can be read on the wiki. My speculation of him being a variant "global miller" is wrong. Shiro,

as a miller

, somehow got the attention of a scum framer, or Narna lied. Someone please tell me if there's some other possibility I'm not seeing. No, it can't have been redirected, we've been over that.

VOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: NarnaVOTE: Narnav

Narna is framed. I am this close to being able to demonstrate how. Just give me a minute.

[MathBlade]

No comment on neighbourhood except to confirm math isn't in it right now.

May I ask questions about the hood? I want to verify something.

[MathBlade]

Specifically was the person added to the hood N2 talkative? If 0 is crickets and 10 is the Super Bowl how loud would you classify their posts? This is a subjective question the numbers are a guide.

[MathBlade]

Andrius (or anyone else in the hood) is also welcome to answer.

[MathBlade]

I am imagining Titus in the dead PT going "Why MathBlade Why"

Because what I am about to post is Math levels of epic.

[MathBlade]

Okay well here goes: Maxous, Giovanni, and Not Chara are all scum together.

I do not believe Maxous is a roleblocker.
Giovanni I believe is a scum follower but I do not think it is even odd nights and I think something is off there.
Not Chara is the fake target scum agreed upon to keep the story straight.
The Creature roleblock claim today is to try to rolefish out if I am an investigative and the reason Creature can't confirm or deny is because he didn't submit anything. Poor guy apathy must have got him.

[MathBlade]

This begs the question how was Shiro roleblocked:

Answer Nahdia was redirected to Shiro N1.

[MathBlade]

The specific reason I doubt Giovanni is a town follower is because Giovanni would have been able to confirm the type of action Maxous took along with Narna. Combining that with Giovanni's opportunistic vote on Narna when they already had the innocent means something was up. Town PRs never vote their innocents.

[MathBlade]

I didn't fucking target anyone night 3 and Maxous' block failed.

fuck

Was getting to that XD.

[MathBlade]

Because Maxous was a claimed roleblocker N3 someone had to be the fall person.

At this point one of Nahdia or Maxous are confirmed scum. The only way this is not the case is if scum also knew Maxous was a roleblocker and Nahdia wasn't going to act as Nahdia's power is more powerful. The only way nonscum Nahdia would be known to not act is if she was in the hood as it wasn't announced publically to what I could find. This makes Nahdia scum which is a direct contradiction of assume one or the other not scum.

[MathBlade]

This also means scum redirector likely had no effect N3.

Then how does the Narna situation happen?

Answer: The scum have a framer that made it seem like Shiro was scum OR Narna is scum with those three.

I am leaning the first.

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The specific reason I doubt Giovanni is a town follower is because Giovanni would have been able to confirm the type of action Maxous took along with Narna. Combining that with Giovanni's opportunistic vote on Narna when they already had the innocent means something was up. Town PRs never vote their innocents.

So, if I am scum along with Maxous, why didn't I fake confirm the type of action he did? It is not hard to not say anything or, since Maxous had already said who he targeted when I said that something was up when I received his result, to confirm his type of action?

Narna's vote was not opportunistic, although it may seemed like it. It was just me saying "lay down the pitcforks and enough with the bullshit".

I am saying your vote is opportunistic.

Yes. Two town roleblocks in a game of this size yet no one hardly ever claimed it. Hell if you actually saw him perform a roleblocker action I would have expected you to scumread Nahdia hard.

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Giovanni not dying after targeting Narna makes sense IF THEYRE BOTH SCUM.
He is trying to get us to step back from the NARNA LYNCH.

This makes absolutely no sense. Why would I come forth with such a ridiculous claim on the day Narna is most likely lynched? As Not chara said, I am out of the lynchpool partly because of my weak claim. Why would I ruin it to save a partner that is eventually doomed?

Well.
If Narna flips scum you and I will have words.

This is your answer? Yeah, this is fully a pitchfork-and-torch era we are currently through. Since the participants of this game left logic behind at some previous timestamp, I will do the same.

VOTE: Narna

This is an L-3 vote.

Let's get the big bad boogeyman out of the way. If Narna flips scum, then come at me. If not, then we will definitely have words, although of a different context.

Either way, if this isn't a troll no scum setup, Town is doomed.

Town PRs never vote their innocents. Ever.

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As a town PR as you have claimed you would have known Narna would not flip scum. There should be no if.

However a townie mindset proposes ifs.

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Specifically was the person added to the hood N2 talkative? If 0 is crickets and 10 is the Super Bowl how loud would you classify their posts? This is a subjective question the numbers are a guide.

@Accountant

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Giovanni not dying after targeting Narna makes sense IF THEYRE BOTH SCUM.
He is trying to get us to step back from the NARNA LYNCH.

This makes absolutely no sense. Why would I come forth with such a ridiculous claim on the day Narna is most likely lynched? As Not chara said, I am out of the lynchpool partly because of my weak claim. Why would I ruin it to save a partner that is eventually doomed?

Well.
If Narna flips scum you and I will have words.

This is your answer? Yeah, this is fully a pitchfork-and-torch era we are currently through. Since the participants of this game left logic behind at some previous timestamp, I will do the same.

VOTE: Narna

This is an L-3 vote.

Let's get the big bad boogeyman out of the way. If Narna flips scum, then come at me. If not, then we will definitely have words, although of a different context.

Either way, if this isn't a troll no scum setup, Town is doomed.

Town PRs never vote their innocents. Ever.

^This isn't necessarily true. I've had a long day, and am looking at this one comment in total isolation without having done much reading (i.e. essentially none), but false. This is a declared Bastard game, so sanity of Cops is not guaranteed. Further, Godfathers, Tailors, Ninjas, and Framers are a thing. Finally I believe I saw some mention of redirectors in my neighborhood? I only skimmed it.

I have no idea of the backstory of this exchange, but that statement needs to be less axiomatic and unforgiving.

Anyway, I opened this thread to say this: I have tomorrow off. Expect my meaningful input some time in the afternoon.

Except Giovanni isn't a claimed cop. They are a claimed weak follower. The mod setup says Skull doesn't lie. So there is no reason Giovanni should have ever voted Narna. They should have held out.

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This also means scum redirector likely had no effect N3.

Then how does the Narna situation happen?

Answer: The scum have a framer that made it seem like Shiro was scum OR Narna is scum with those three.

I am leaning the first.

you've explained how framer explains everything narna did, but you haven't explained why you're assuming framer in the first place

I think giovanni is scum but different faction from narna

Unlikely. Let's assume Giovanni is scum of a different faction than Narna. Why claim to have visited Narna with a weak? Narna's lynch would ultimately spell disaster for him if multiball and she was scum. Scum Giovanni doesn't declare Narna town over a buddy or someone they are certain is town. Narna is town or aligned with Giovanni.

And because how the fake guilty went down it makes no sense for them to be scum together.

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Specifically was the person added to the hood N2 talkative? If 0 is crickets and 10 is the Super Bowl how loud would you classify their posts? This is a subjective question the numbers are a guide.

n2 person was pretty loud. maybe 7 or 8.

Thank you.

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So Giovanni did Maxous take a roleblocker action and did Narna take a psychologist action?

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The follower is a bit vague on how you'd get it but please paraphrase as best as you can what you got in results assuming we should believe you which I do not.

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This miller is a killer.

vote: shiro

Take a look at when this was posted.

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This is within one hour of the day starting. This means one of two things

A) Scum had a plan to mislynch Shiro and sacrifice Narna the next day to get it or
B) Town derp and miller made him seem like a killer
C) Frame job

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With the Jailkeeper out of commission they had 0% reason to believe their kill wouldn't go through N3.

With that N3 kill they kill SlySly actor and diva.(not quite sure what diva is)

They literally killed someone in essence without a vote. That seems dumb.

This means that they could have just killed Shiro why pick him for the guilty?

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The specific reason I doubt Giovanni is a town follower is because Giovanni would have been able to confirm the type of action Maxous took along with Narna. Combining that with Giovanni's opportunistic vote on Narna when they already had the innocent means something was up. Town PRs never vote their innocents.

So, if I am scum along with Maxous, why didn't I fake confirm the type of action he did? It is not hard to not say anything or, since Maxous had already said who he targeted when I said that something was up when I received his result, to confirm his type of action?

Narna's vote was not opportunistic, although it may seemed like it. It was just me saying "lay down the pitcforks and enough with the bullshit".

I am saying your vote is opportunistic.

Yes. Two town roleblocks in a game of this size yet no one hardly ever claimed it. Hell if you actually saw him perform a roleblocker action I would have expected you to scumread Nahdia hard.

I don't get it.

You are saying that I am scum with Maxous.

1) If I am a scum follower, why would I target my scumbuddy in the first place? Why would I claim my role? Why would I say that I saw my scumbuddy perform an interfering (that is how is called) action?

2) Since I was Townread and my weak claim was generally believed (and Maxous was further Townread because of it), why come out, after Maxous said who targeted during Day 2, and say that my action targetting him seems to have failed somehow?

-------

Regarding the vote, I will explain it one more time.

Narna has basically become synonymous with the Antichrist before you three replaced. Every Day Phase since Day 2 started with Narna and was about Narna. All logic was paused in order to lynch Narna. All meaningful discussion was paused because of Narna's existence in the game. Leonshade was lynched because of Narna. The game would not move on unless some people replaced (which didn't seem the case) or the boogeyman was out of the way. I was tired of the same mantra being repeated every single day.

1) The premise is bad. If you are scum the entire thing is poisonous and you are not required to have actually targeted your buddy or have told the truth about any of it. I think the claim is engineered to give Maxous a bit of legitimacy.

Has no one seriously questioned why no roleblock claims have come up with two claimed blockers in a huge game like this?

2) Because either A) Maxous is ascetic or B) again you are lying to give Maxous Credibility. Weak is a rare fake claim most people don't question that and it lets you "confirm" your buddy.

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Hmmm..

@Math:

Do you have a LOT of grass to convince me to sheep you on this??

OK, let's try: Explain why Scum!Giovanni gives an INNOCENT result on Narna specifically (when Narna was the designated lynch of he day). If you're answer is convincing I'll sheep you on Giovanni today.

As for Maxous, I believe the inno on him was also from Giovanni?? (Somebody correct me if it was Narna not Giovanni). If so, then Giovanni goes first to confirm he is scum (or am I missing something that makes Maxous a higher priority lynch?)

Now remember this: BOTH Giovanni & Maxous have been my strongest Town reads, so for me to actually be convinced to vote either of then you do need to have a more "organized" narrative to the order of action occurring on any given night. You can't say they're scum with Chara then go back to say but this makes Nahdia scum too, because then I'm not sure if you're saying all 4 are scum together, or if Nahdia replaces Chara in that regard, or if yo're assuming 2 scum teams .. etc.

Then there was the SK theory from before. Is that now void or what?

You know.. tell me what you think has been going on like I'm five (just ignore the zero in my handle if you will)

I am saying Nahdia town. I was assuming something and reached a contradiction.

Oh and I would want you to sheep me onto Maxous.

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With the Jailkeeper out of commission they had 0% reason to believe their kill wouldn't go through N3.

With that N3 kill they kill SlySly actor and diva.(not quite sure what diva is)

They literally killed someone in essence without a vote. That seems dumb.

This means that they could have just killed Shiro why pick him for the guilty?

more kills + control lynch

also remember that it's a looooot easier to get away with fakeclaiming in a bastard setup

and from what I heard narna was on the chopping block anyway so it also makes sense that they'd want to make her go out with a bang taking a townie with her

There is no reason they had to bus Narna. They could have picked any townie they wanted. Sure Narna was under suspicion but a lot of people were. Nahdia would have been on my radar for no one ever claiming blocked but Shiro.

Framing someone else makes more sense than Shiro if they were. SlySly would have been better.

This is a 1-2 punch setup or town derp from Narna.

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Narna: omg help me guys i think im gonna die

Scumlord A: Sorry pal you're probs dead

Narna: fuck what should I do then???

Scumlord B: we can make the most of it. Try to get a townie mislynched by giving a fake guilty, then we can all bus you for credit.

Standard yes but why Shiro?
If they knew Shiro was a rolecop they would have killed him and not SlySly.
Why would a scum team pick a claimed miller?
The usual answer is block or kill.
They could have gone after any townie and instead kill the powerless it makes no sense.

[MathBlade]

Mathblade: Can you give me the pieces that you are seeing and how you're piecing them together?

This is a long post.

[MathBlade]

Mathblade: Can you give me the pieces that you are seeing and how you're piecing them together?

1) Nahdia and Maxous are claimed roleblockers.
2) Only one person in 5 days has claimed roleblocked conveniently confirmed by Maxous.
3) A lot of people have been asked if they were roleblocked thus luring investigatives/actioners.
4) Maxous's ability failed N3. This means either there is a third roleblocker (unlikely) or Maxous is lying about being a roleblocker or Nahdia is lying about not having targeted.

With me so far?

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You guys are being idiots, that is all. I have already full claimed so there is nothing else to do.

Remember to lynch almost and maxous

Vote:Narna

Because only othet wagon that might pass over me and I am 100% I am town over my confidence on him.

Do whatever.

@Accountant

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I refuse to believe scum.would be given basically a gunsmith as a role.

It is fucking stupid and paired with Narna reaction after he for all intends and purposes was lynched make it highly unlikely.

Snarky, this town has done fuck all till today, help me lead a revolution and kill scum.

Scum is playing then like bloody puppets, leon lynch then now trying to push me or Narna and setting for the other tomorrow.

Wake up people. Titus stop tunneling and listen to me. Join on almost.

Caky the same as Titus. Just trust me.

Maxous, you are likely scum so I don't give s fuck what you do. I will entertain you though. Case me, because "How was that town" isn't a case.

Andrius I get your frustration, I have been in your position in other games but please trust me here today.

This here. Shiro said Narna was town and I agree.

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I can't buy that there 2 roleblockers AND a redirector

lynch on a50 and maxous is in order, yeah

Maxous first.

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I don't think Not Chara is scum. If it were, why wouldn't they just confirm Maxous roleblocked them? This glaring connection-that the night I didn't submit an action and the night Maxous' block failed-wouldn't exist.

It is for the simple answer of they have to explain why it wasn't claimed the following day immediately. Whenever roleblocked you are supposed to immediately claim. Not Chara didn't. It could confirm Maxous at the expense of itself or tell the truth and given the amount of investigatives so far truth is safer.

[MathBlade]

I am really willing to bet I wasn't roleblocked though, especially since nahdia also got roleblocked.

This here. Shiro talks about their weird results.

It is more damning Not Chara didn't push Maxous.

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Mathblade: Can you give me the pieces that you are seeing and how you're piecing them together?

Do you understand where I get one of Maxous or Nahdia scum from?

[MathBlade]

I don't agree. Not claiming roleblocked is a viable option if you don't want to out you have a role that gets feedback, and Not Chara is smart enough to realize it could excuse themselves.

I can see that for one person.

But for 8 unique?
N2 no one said anything
N3 no one said anything
N4 no one said anything

If I was hit 3 times in a row my investigative is useless so I would claim anyway. Therefore the roleblocks had to hit different people. So you are telling me 6 players found their role more important than confirming there is a roleblocker who hit them or a redirector?

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Narna has basically become synonymous with the Antichrist before you three replaced. Every Day Phase since Day 2 started with Narna and was about Narna. All logic was paused in order to lynch Narna. All meaningful discussion was paused because of Narna's existence in the game. Leonshade was lynched because of Narna. The game would not move on unless some people replaced (which didn't seem the case) or the boogeyman was out of the way. I was tired of the same mantra being repeated every single day.

you telling me 3 days of pitchfrks weren't enough to lynch narna?

sounds like scum bulshit stalling the wagon

y/n?

Narna wasn't lynched Day 2 because McMenno was equally scumread.

If it wasn't for the governor, Narna would have been definitely lynched Day 3.

People scumread Shiro equally to Narna and after the govern there were hints that he might be town.

1) The premise is bad. If you are scum the entire thing is poisonous and you are not required to have actually targeted your buddy or have told the truth about any of it. I think the claim is engineered to give Maxous a bit of legitimacy.

Has no one seriously questioned why no roleblock claims have come up with two claimed blockers in a huge game like this?

2) Because either A) Maxous is ascetic or B) again you are lying to give Maxous Credibility. Weak is a rare fake claim most people don't question that and it lets you "confirm" your buddy.

Maxous already had credibility. He was generally townread. He didn't need MORE credibility with a scheme as intricate as you describe. I was not exactly townread after my Day 2 remarks and fake-claiming weak was dangerous, anyway. So, why would I risk fake-claiming weak while saying that I targeted my generally towread scumbuddy?

The answer I receive is worded in a way that is not clear if I got blocked, my target didn't anything or something else happened.

Your case ofme being Maxous's scumbuddy is far fetched and doesn't make sense. You are just trying way too hard to give credibility to your scumlist.

No he didn't. He actually had very little and was further dampened by Shiro's scumread of him after he went down.

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Or will lynch scum Giovanni. That will at least give us a "town Maxous" if he is to believed.

Let me say this again: I replaced during a Night Phase. If I was replacing into a scum slot in a game where one player has recently played with me (Creature) and knows my playstyle and another one might remember it (SirCakez) (in addition to anyone seeing my previous games and noticing that I play differently), I would have actually talked with my scumbuddies and went full analytical as I usually do with the help of faux scumhunting conclusions or whatever. We didn't have a shortage of suspects back then anyway, and we don't have one now. I wouldn't have touched the McMenno wagon and I certainly wouldn't risk my position spouting theories the way I did, especially since I happened to replace in a slot that was Townread by a majority of the players prior to me joining the game.

I think you overplay the whole bread-crumbing issue. I have one result (Maxous), who was chosen because I felt like it was the safest choice, as this is the first time I play a weak role and I was afraid of hitting non-town. Also, with the way I played during Day 2, there was a chance that I would be lynched eventually, so I figured that it would be unlikely for me to be nightkilled by scum; it would be unlikely to be nightkilled by town-aligned vigs as well, as they would had more prime candidates than me during the Night Phase.

In fact, I wouldn't had roleclaimed if the following quotes from Creature and Narna didn't happen:

We're not seriously switching to LaL after three days of apathy. Town is boned.

Kill Maxous, Giovanni, and Titus.

Maxous and Giovanni first. Maybe Almost50 too.

Maxous, Giovanni and Almost50 are my top preferences.

VOTE: Maxous

Disingenuous my ass.

First two posts are before the govern, the latter two are after.

Three posts after the last Narna quote, I kind of roleclaimed and voted Leonshade. Back then, right after the govern, I believed what Maxous said about Narna and Leonshade being scumbuddies (as opposed to now that I stated that I have no idea), hence my vote. When I saw the Narna vote, I also thought that Creature might be their scumbuddy and that they will attempt to lynch Maxous.

In any case, Creature was (and is) playing differently than what I know of Town!Creature, and seeing him stating twice that he is willing to lynch Maxous and I was definitely strange. Narna's two posts were strange in a similar fashion, as well, but it doesn't make sense if he didn't know that he will be governed. In retrospect, even the roleclaim's timing was wrong, as I had to see if Creature would join Narna first, before claiming.

Anyway, I have played terribly this game. If you are so sure that I am scum and I have to be lynched before any of the other possible wagons today, then go for it.

----------------

Something else. I totally misunderstood what "Miller" is when I was explaining my Shiro vote. For some reason, it had stuck to my brain that "miller" is someone that turns mafia if he/she is nightkilled.

Even so:

Nah, I am.not. Just really disinterested. Do you honestly think scum me would claim Rolecop Miller? Psh come on.

I don't get why a mafia rolecop wouldn't or couldn't claim miller rolecop. Seems plausible, especially since it kind of leaves some space to said supposed mafia rolecop to do eyebrow-raising things, like hammering MoI or getting out of Narna's wagon.

You didn't out Maxous til here. When it was advantageous to do so.

[MathBlade]

Oh and I would want you to sheep me onto Maxous.

Wouldn't that necessitate you vote him first for me to be sheeping you?

No. My vote is there in spirit.

I want more people to interact with my argument to see if I am nuts or if it is right. I don't have the hood to verify things or to examine this in combination. Or someone sees the same facts and thinks Nahdia is more likely scum or Math you derped here.

[MathBlade]

maxous goes first

1) i can't buy that there are 2 rb and a redirector
2) shiro scumread him, and scum wanted to kill shiro - either by frame or by fakeclaim
3) glance through his ISO doesn't give me any good feels

if by some miracle he flips town we can confirm nahdia as scum

ankamius if you have a killing role you need to shoot narna as soon as humanly possible

Also I trust math, they're the only one trying to gamesolve

No one shoots Narna. I think they were framed. If anyone should be killed at night it should be Ank I think.

[MathBlade]

Or Not Chara.

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It is also possible there is no framer and Narna derped and hit the miller and miller said I am a killer. I maybe didn't ask the question in the right way to eliminate this possibility. Nahdia what did you ask the mod? All they gave me was the wiki link which has a variant in which millers would look like killers.

[MathBlade]

The reason I want Maxous first is if I am right it gives us Gio scum.
If I am wrong it gives us Gio town and Nahdia scum.

[MathBlade]

We cannot afford too many more mislynches and this way we should know if we get a scum in the next two lynches. I hate planning lynches but at this point I think it is almost necessary.

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It is also possible there is no framer and Narna derped and hit the miller and miller said I am a killer. I maybe didn't ask the question in the right way to eliminate this possibility. Nahdia what did you ask the mod? All they gave me was the wiki link which has a variant in which millers would look like killers.

@Nadhia please answer

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It is also possible there is no framer and Narna derped and hit the miller and miller said I am a killer. I maybe didn't ask the question in the right way to eliminate this possibility. Nahdia what did you ask the mod? All they gave me was the wiki link which has a variant in which millers would look like killers.

@Nadhia please answer

I asked Skull if Shiro's miller ability is a standard mafiascum miller or not. Skull confirmed it was. Narna tells us that according to Skull, their role would not get a killer result on a miller.

Based on how I read the wiki they would. Can you show me where they say that?

[MathBlade]

Narna, what did you expect to get checking me ? Why you waste your power :/

This is a post from a buddy to a buddy.

Nope, this is a post of someone that believe someone else is town but being stupid.

Psychologist is legit role Narna has. It doesn't make much sense for scum to have that role, it is like giving scum gunsmith. It stupid and useless.

Either Narna is lying about the psychologist in which case Gio would be dead if Town or they are scum together.

Big news from the mod god. I just needed to word my question a little better. A miller would not return as having the ability to kill if they lacked that ability.

I am asking how because I asked and got the wiki. What did you ask?

[MathBlade]

So Narna is a confirmed psychologist unless Gio is scum with Narna.

[MathBlade]

Now I am going to bed. If someone disagrees with my theories speak up now please.

[MathBlade]

Derp sleepiness issues that was Narna.

So yeah odd.

Narna could be scum in a weird world but IMHO very unlikely. Maxous first. Then if Maxous town Nadhia. If Maxous scum Gio.

[MathBlade]

It is also possible there is no framer and Narna derped and hit the miller and miller said I am a killer. I maybe didn't ask the question in the right way to eliminate this possibility. Nahdia what did you ask the mod? All they gave me was the wiki link which has a variant in which millers would look like killers.

I didn't ask the mod myself here, but I proposed the miller might have worked in a way I had seen before which was "You would give the most unfavourable result to any and all investigative roles". Some refuted my proposition, somene said it was the case then they changed their mind and I gave up.

In my mind .. in a bastard game .. in a role madness game .. in a game modded by none other than skull.. a Miller would return a guilty to all kinds of cops. Also -and this is very important IMHO- we only had Narna's role and Shiro's as "investigative" role claims (not asking anyone else to claim). We had claims of a Follower, Roleblockers, and Titus was a Neapolitan (or Vanilla Cop). Now let's see:

How does a miller work with a Follower?? Will they give "performed a killing action" for instance?? Of course not.

How about RBs? Well, these don't return results to begin with.

And the Neapolitan/Vanilla Cop?? Everybody returns a Not Vanilla (unless the miller was purposefully designed to be to give a Vanilla result when they're not, which is WEIRD, and -also- not exactly a guilty).

Oh, and -of course- a Role Cop has nothing to do with a Miller, nor does a Flavour Cop (which we had no claims of, but still ..)

So, the ONLY "false guilty" that the Miller could've returned would have been to Narna's role, as per the claimed/known roles thus far, and thus I still believe Narna did get a guilty on Shiro regardless, and w/o the need of a framer intervention.

P-edit:

Fine. So if OUR Miller should not have returned a guilty to Narna, then who were they a Miller to? Do we have a claimed/flipped role that would have returned a false guilty on Shiro?? Or was he a Miller to to nobody???

Maybe there is a traditional cop? Or a miller to no one which Makes Ank scum. I don't know. What I do know is Maxous is a hell of a better lynch.

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I proposed the miller might have worked in a way I had seen before which was "You would give the most unfavourable result to any and all investigative roles". Some refuted my proposition, somene said it was the case then they changed their mind and I gave up.

I checked this with Skull; it's not the case. It's a totally normal miller

What did you ask?

Normal miller gives me a wiki which says it is possible.

Granted Narna could be scum or could be town.

But the only way Narna is scum is with Gio.

[MathBlade]

So if Narna flips scum Gio is scum but if Narna flips town Gio is NIA.

Maxous still better.

[MathBlade]

Yay sweet dreams.

FYI I have work in AM and game night tomorrow so limited posting.

[MathBlade]

Furthermore if Maxous town Gio town and Narna town. Which even further narrows places to hide. Maxous needs rope.

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Either way is a risk.

Either Maxous made a risk claiming roleblocker to Shiro in this case why isn't he dead? Because scum shouldn't want to be roleblocked. However Maxous scum explains why you weren't killed you were being setup as your targets never work

Or

You copied Shadowrun Mafia in which I claimed early for the justification and then used the bastardness as cover.

One of these things is true. Going to bed for real now.

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Just in case Nahdia or anybody still has doubts about the re-direction thing.

On night 4 Nahdia blocked me.
Therefore I could not hypothetically re-direct anybody.
Sir cakez was blocked on night 4.

Ergo it actually couldn't of been me. Somebody else had to cause it.

No. Nahdia had to be redirected onto Shiro or chose Shiro or is a liar.

Otherwise you are suggesting three roleblockers in this game. You said you roleblocked Not Chara on D3. It failed without anyone claiming roleblocked. Therefore you were redirected onto scum before your RB claim or a liar or Nahdia is.

I do not believe in two town roleblockers and a scum redirector that conveniently makes both of you truth tellers. The more likely scenario is the one I have presented in which one of you or Nahdia is scum.

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If ever, at any time, I end up flipping, Narna and Nahdia are confscum.

I don't expect that will happen unless a hammer gets stolen out from under me, in which case that person should be flipped third after those two.

I don't believe we should give you a hammer as I never got to finish my theory. I don't believe your states. I think you are just plain scum OR someone used your N3 state and plopped it on Shiro assuming Narna wasn't just town derp.

[MathBlade]

As you claimed before you get unspecified bonuses from being on wagons. If this is the case why weren't you spreading around votes like candy trying to find the scum? Similarly on D2 you avoided the McMenno wagon even as it was inevitable just saying you believed he was Town. As a town PR with states I would have expected us to remind us of that and then call us all idiots or something. Now let's look at day three.

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I'm thinking that Leonshade is town (which doesn't indicate anything for Narna). I think whoever's town on this wagon is biasing too much towards them being scumpartners and scum are trying to support that.

Instead on day three is when you start campaigning for Leonshade town and then use your hammer.

Both lynches were inevitable and you were online at both times.

I do not believe you are town based on how you have laid out your claims.

Furthermore if you are just scum you are miller and hated already. Miller from being actual scum and Hated from doing self hammering as scum.

In actuality there is 0 that makes you Town and a lot where you play against your own claimed interests.

Furthermore you have been proposing a lot of shit that just isn't true.

[MathBlade]

Nahdia isn't surviving to the dawn of tomorrow.

Then lynch Maxous with us and if Maxous flips scum you don't shoot Nahdia. If Maxous flips town shoot away. Then again I do not believe you actually have your own shot and are just scum since you have had strong reads yourself since day three and haven't done a thing about it. Even as you see the town lynches piling. Your play does not match what you have claimed.

[MathBlade]

Furthermore to those of you who actually believe Narna is scum this makes Gio scum.
Because he said he had a 100% unadulterated innocent on her.

So Maxous Gio Ank Not Chara
Or
Nahdia Gio Narna
Or
Nahdia + others not Gio or Narna.

If you don't trust me on Maxous you should be making Narna + Gio worlds.

If I had a gun Gio would be lying down here blood fucking spilt.

[MathBlade]

Innocent on him (Narna)*

[MathBlade]

However Maxous gives us the most information going into potential LyLO. The fifth scum in my top category is BigYoshiFan/SnarkySnowman. I think that 5 scum thing is a slip.

So if somehow I die I think the scum team is Maxous Gio Ank Not Chara BigYoshiFan.
If Maxous Town most likely Nahdia + Gio + Narna.

Maxous and Gio need rope and death.

[MathBlade]

i'm confused as to how Giovanni isn't clear on whether no action was performed, or if he was blocked. i can say with a hundref percent certainty, a simple question to the mod about the result can confirm that. unless Giovanni's is some kind of needlessly bastard role that gives vague results in those situations. which would be silly, none of the other investigations are like that.

pedit: i'm fine with trusting Mathblade.

This so much this.

If he is weak and visited Maxous he should be able to just say I visited Maxous he got the names. I don't give two shits about the follower result.

I have to go to work but Maxous needs rope. Would settle for a Gio but Maxous gives us more on setup.

[MathBlade]

cutting through this fluff

how about Nahdia roleblocks Not Chara and we'll see what happens there
I'll roleblock Massive to make sure i'm targeting a confirmable role

that should prove these theories wrong I believe

VOTE: Narna

Nope. You will be lynched.

What I am saying is N3 is inexplicable with both of you being Town. Explain how Not Chara wasn't roleblocked if both of you are town.

[MathBlade]

A setup can have infinitely many of any role.

It is that N3 doesn't make sense without you or Nahdia being scum.

[MathBlade]

Let's make a townbloc Math

Your sister would approve

Not a fan of town blocks. My reads are always changing as things come out. If you townread me though that is your decision. This would be one of the situations where Town blocks are good if we had one but until we see how Maxous flips a town bloc fmpov is not smart.

[MathBlade]

What I am saying is N3 is inexplicable with both of you being Town. Explain how Not Chara wasn't roleblocked if both of you are town.

explain how Cakez was blocked N4 if i'm scum.

if we take Nahdia at thier word, they jailkept me which would of blocked all my actions so i couldn't of done jack-shit to cakez.

i don't want an anti-town lengthy back and forward but seriously, how could i have targeted cakez if i was being blocked? it

had

to be someone else.

But fine as, for Night 3.

a) Not Chara was empowered with a role - ( we had a motovator, we could have an empowerer )
b) Not Chara is misunderstanding/misreading their role - ( they had to ask the mod for confirmation their role happened. this happens way more than you'd think )
c) Not Chara is lying - ( do they have any proof their night 3 action went through? )
d) Mod made an error

Alrighty. I already did Nahdia was redirected or a liar for night four.
A) Nope. An empowerer would claim and clear this shit up.
B) If Not Chara can misunderstand why not Narna? Instead it proudly proclaims not roleblocked.
C) This is possible. However lying here would make them scum. Your flip will alleviate that if town or scum.
D) Mod error is not possible or mod would fix it. First post says mod doesn't lie.

Try again. You couldn't be redirected as you weren't out yet. Nahdia was.

[MathBlade]

if Narna is "misunderstanding" his role there is gonna be war

- -

Alrighty. I already did Nahdia was redirected or a liar for night four.

none of this explains how *I* could be scum based on Night 4 actions.
If Nahdia was re-directed they were re-directed by somebody not me.

but w/e. This argument is done.

No it isn't. You are scum because you claimed the roleblock that was either Nahdia redirected or lying. It is more you don't scum read Nahdia believe she is telling the truth yet don't question wtf happened night four.

[MathBlade]

A scum redirector has to exist or Nahdia is a liar.

Nahdia said they protected Zakk. Zakk died.
Nahdia said they roleblocked on N2 and N4. Didn't work.

So either Nahdia is a liar or there is a redirector.

If Nadhia is a liar then Nahdia is scum.
If Nahdia is being redirected then your roleblock not going through N3 makes no sense.

So from your pov there is and is not a redirector on Nahdia this is a contradiction. From your POV Nahdia should be conf scum.

[MathBlade]

These cases are both very rare. Normally, the Golden Rule will be sufficient to resolve almost any combination of actions. Try to resolve actions using the Golden Rule first before reading onwards.
In case of emergency breakdown of the Golden Rule
If there is really no other option, the traditional recommendation of Natural Action Resolution is to pick whichever of the conflicting actions comes first on the following list, and resolve it first:

[MathBlade]

Find an action (or a passive modifier, such as Bulletproof) such that its effect cannot possibly be modified by any other action.
Resolve it.
Repeat from step 1 until all actions are resolved.

[MathBlade]

An example of an action loop:
Player 1 blocks Player 2.
Player 2 redirects Player 1 onto player 3.
In this case, both actions affect each other; player 2's action changes the target of player 1's, and player 1's is prevented by player 2's.
Note that this loop would not occur if either of the players had chosen different targets. If player 2 had targeted someone else, then the roleblock is not affected by any other actions, and player 2 will just be blocked outright. If player 1 had targeted someone else, then the redirect is not affected by any other actions, so player 1 will end up blocking player 2's target.

[MathBlade]

If there is really no other option, the traditional recommendation of Natural Action Resolution is to pick whichever of the conflicting actions comes first on the following list, and resolve it first:
Copy
Hide
Bus
Block
Redirect
Protect
Miscellaneous
Kill
Recruit
Inspect
Do not use this list unless actions are actually in conflict; that is, that both affect each other.
If only one of the actions affects another, resolve that one first, regardless of the positions on the list.

[MathBlade]

So if scum have a redirector in that case it is not Maxous else he would come after and be blocked by Nahdia.

[MathBlade]

The above is from the NAR wiki. So Maxous would not be the redirector in that case. He would be covering up for it.

[MathBlade]

If Nahdia is being redirected then your roleblock not going through N3 makes no sense.

well i don't f'n know

all i know - is i targeted Not Chara on N3

my roleblock confirmed to work on Shiro on N1
it apparently worked on Nahdia on N2

why don't you question Not Chara's role then?

why don't we get Nahdia to roleblock Not Chara and see if it works?

why do I have to be lynched for this WIFOM shit?

no, i don't think i automatically have to assume Nahdia is scum in a bastard game where we have no idea what the scum roles are.

i should take a break for a bit


Nahdia - roleblocks >>> re-directing so no.

A roleblocker is confirmed. Not you. Could be Nahdia. Either way one of you is a liar.

I do question it. I already did.

Because we end up in a repeat of one of you being a liar again.

Because it isn't wifom. One of you or Nahdia without a doubt is scum.

Yes you should. No amount of bastard explains Nahdia's RBs not working without redirect or scum.

[MathBlade]

Furthermore it solicited Nahdia scum if you are town because someone would have had to mess with Gio's action. (Or Gio is scum)

Pretty much your flip reveals a fuck ton about the game state.

I also don't like how Almost 50 pushes Narna but doesn't question Gio's innocent on Narna.

[MathBlade]

Solidifies * autocorrect you suck.

[MathBlade]

Mahdi a are you pulling a Shadowrun Mafia here?

[MathBlade]

Nahdia*

I would vote my phone if it was a player.

[MathBlade]

I was only in that game for pre-game so you'll have to clarify what you mean~

In Shadowrun Mafia I claimed Jailkeeper early to select players and was scum. I thought you watched it.

[MathBlade]

Logically Maxous should be the lynch today but your scumdar pings me like no business.

[MathBlade]

Somewhere either Titus is proud or crying and I don't know which.

[MathBlade]

Supporting scum who lynch great town players is not helpful either.

Captain obvious gets a theory medal. Please fill in names and apply the theory to the game state.

Conclusion
Rule
Application
Conclusion

Remember, crac kills scum.

I conclude Maxous or Nahdia is scum.
Rules say we lynch scum. Not town.
Application I will hammer as I don't trust Ank but I am asking for the votes.

Conclusion Ank needs to prove why he should be trusted because I don't.

[MathBlade]

For the question of "oh boo hoo why would scum Gio try to save his buddy???"
because this town is gullible as shit (as seen with the Shiro "guilty" yesterday)

and it looks like it's working

Clarify do you mean you think Town is gullible on Narna scum or town?

[MathBlade]

The above is from the NAR wiki. So Maxous would not be the redirector in that case.

He would be covering up for it.

*dies*

Yep exactly so if you aren't redirector Nahdia is still redirected Day four as there is no conflict. You claimed roleblocker to hide it.

There is no way 7 people have been roleblocked and Shiro is hit twice and claimed twice.

[MathBlade]

And no one else claimed blocked. It is horse manure.

[MathBlade]

I'll be back later. Sounds like some solving going on.

*Smacks* Stop being lurks PV I can't read *playful smack again*

[MathBlade]

Because Maxous is the smarter lynch. If we had free lynches instead of very likely having to name the entire scum team if wrong I would. But there is no way you are getting hammer when you don't live up to your claim and aren't trying to be protown.

[MathBlade]

There is time for you to demonstrate I am wrong. Prove it and interact with the theories and explain and be loud. Miller isn't a free lurk sac pass.

[MathBlade]

Speaking out against every single town lynch that we've had so far is not trying to be protown?

Not when you aren't actively suggesting anyone. It implies knowledge.

[MathBlade]

For the question of "oh boo hoo why would scum Gio try to save his buddy???"
because this town is gullible as shit (as seen with the Shiro "guilty" yesterday)

and it looks like it's working

Clarify do you mean you think Town is gullible on Narna scum or town?

Town is being gullible by thinking narna is town despite the fake guilty

Yes there is a fake guilty but I don't see why Narna would do it. Fake guilties are done differently.

[MathBlade]

Then show me how you do. Prove to me why I should think you are anything other than scum.

[MathBlade]

So Maxous and Gio and Ank or Nahdia Gio and Narna

[MathBlade]

Hell,

EVERYONE

privately message Skullduggery and ask them about Shiro's miller role. Please. We can put this to rest; this isn't something we have to speculate on.

I did and he gave me the wiki which is not helpful. Because different sites use the wiki different ways. That is why I asked for your question.

[MathBlade]

My Role PM has the exact same wording.

The only possible way for this to be wrong is via mod error, which has not been acknowledged in the thread.

Ergo, Nahdia lied about getting confirmation about Shiro's role.

Or you are a lying scum trying to save Maxous.

[MathBlade]

Shiro: Describe how your miller role works ASAP, please.

All checks on me return as if I was scum aligned

THANK YOU, Ank.

Now, who would know better than the one who actually received and read their own PM? Anyone else asking the mod would have to use the correct phrasing, like "would a normal miller.." .. well who ever said Shiro was normal? Or "Would Shiro have returned a guilty ..?". Well, he wouldn't, except for XXX (which the mod did not and should not have added because it's considered mod-influence since it wasn't explicitly worded in the question.

My point is Shiro said it loud and clear: ALL CHECKS return a guilty. He already flipped and we know he was Town, so we might as well trust him on this one, and if we do; then Narna did receive a GUILTY on Shiro and it was BECAUSE OF SHIRO's ROLE. End of.

So then not even a framer is needed and my gut is right. Will leave Ank alone for now because these last few posts put them to null.

Still want one of Maxous or Nahdia. At work gotta go.

[MathBlade]

@mod As he flipped, is Shiro's "miller" modifier a standard miller or did his miller modify his slot in ways a standard miller wouldn't? I only ask since all we're given is the role name. I'm hoping you can answer this publicly since it's a question anyone could conceivably ask and get a proper answer for.

Except for the last sentence, that's what I asked Skull privately.

I just asked please tell me how Shiro's Miller worked and got the wiki.

[MathBlade]

My Role PM has the exact same wording.

The only possible way for this to be wrong is via mod error, which has not been acknowledged in the thread.

Ergo, Nahdia lied about getting confirmation about Shiro's role.

Or you are a lying scum trying to save Maxous.

My favorite part is that you were more than happy to work with me until I started crusading against Narna and Nahdia.

I reevaluated everyone when looking at night actions. I provided gut reads to progress the game then deep dive.

[MathBlade]

I want to sleep on this and see what the mod says publically if anything.

[MathBlade]

If we were going without role interactions SirCakez would be a good bet for scum.

[MathBlade]

Because Maxous was a claimed roleblocker N3 someone had to be the fall person.

At this point one of Nahdia or Maxous are confirmed scum. The only way this is not the case is if scum also knew Maxous was a roleblocker and Nahdia wasn't going to act as Nahdia's power is more powerful. The only way nonscum Nahdia would be known to not act is if she was in the hood as it wasn't announced publically to what I could find. This makes Nahdia scum which is a direct contradiction of assume one or the other not scum.

Because Maxous's action N3 failed and Nahdia didn't act.

So there are either three roleblockers for both to be town
Or scum have multiple "make this action fail powers"
Or one of them is scum and lying.

[MathBlade]

Shiro: Describe how your miller role works ASAP, please.

All checks on me return as if I was scum aligned

The function of Shiro's Miller modifier can be found on the pertinent Wiki page. I will not elaborate any further than that.

Some moderators take the "passive guilt" concept to the point where Millers also investigate unfavorably to other roles (i.e. Gunsmith)

Big news from the mod god. I just needed to word my question a little better.

A miller would not return as having the ability to kill if they lacked that ability

.

Vote: Shiro

Ank what did you ask Skullduggery when inquiring about your miller status?

...so Narna has to be scum.
why would Skull ever say that to Narna unless confirmed town Shiro was lying about his own Miller ability?

like, there's other reasons why Narna is scum but this is ridiculously damning.

Better question: Narna can you provide the exact question you asked?

[MathBlade]

On my way to game night with friends will be on sporadically.

Big yoshi awaiting response to my question.

Narna Thanks for the compliment I have been working on my town game.

[MathBlade]

@BYF I was in a hurry when I wrote that. I meant that I had answered your question and wanted to see what you thought about Maxous and Nahdia.

[MathBlade]

Something is clear to me here. We have eleven days and have quick lynched multiple times. This Narna lynch resistance and push both feel equally wrong. It almost looks as if people don't want to scumhunt and want to line up the easy shot.

For a moment ignore how you feel about the guilty on Shiro. Read Narna. If you think Narna is scum who are their partners. Town? Who is scum.

Because the more we go on this miller treadmill the more people don't have to put down honest to God reads. I think we are very close to having to name an entire fucking team here so stop running the goddamn mill and start posting reads.

In fact everyone I want your top two scumreads (and Narna if you scumread them doesn't count here) or a theory similar to mine where if X is town then Y is scum and Z is scum. The point is people should be making concrete stances on things. Not some PR debacle.

[MathBlade]

Because Maxous was a claimed roleblocker N3 someone had to be the fall person.

At this point one of Nahdia or Maxous are confirmed scum. The only way this is not the case is if scum also knew Maxous was a roleblocker and Nahdia wasn't going to act as Nahdia's power is more powerful. The only way nonscum Nahdia would be known to not act is if she was in the hood as it wasn't announced publically to what I could find. This makes Nahdia scum which is a direct contradiction of assume one or the other not scum.

Because Maxous's action N3 failed and Nahdia didn't act.

So there are either three roleblockers for both to be town
Or scum have multiple "make this action fail powers"
Or one of them is scum and lying.

Uhmmmmm. I think it is most likely a scum's "make this action fail powers" to be the cause. I honestly don't know what to make of this; they are both null reads to me too. Any other information you have, such as other discrepancies that I didn't see?

Read my ISO and tell me what you think of it. I replaced in at the same point as you. Read posts and share thoughts. Replacing in I can understand not wanting to read 200 pages but surely you must have some thoughts since replace in other than null?

[MathBlade]

And if you absolutely must talk about Narna after answering my prompt answer this:

Do you think Narna is a liar? Town derp? Or Framed? And why.

[MathBlade]

Does someone have a guilty on Narna? Or are you saying Shiro was framed when Narna checked them?

Narna claimed Shiro was a killer.
Shiro flipped town miller.

What I am saying is you need to read and present your thoughts.

Stop asking anyone questions til you post unique thoughts. I may be loud and I may be vocal but I came to play mafia and that requires discussion of more than sheepage.

Post your thoughts. I have been. Your turn to make your slot useful and not make me wish I had infinite vig shots.

[MathBlade]

I refuse to believe scum.would be given basically a gunsmith as a role.

It is fucking stupid and paired with Narna reaction after he for all intends and purposes was lynched make it highly unlikely.

Snarky, this town has done fuck all till today, help me lead a revolution and kill scum.

Scum is playing then like bloody puppets, leon lynch then now trying to push me or Narna and setting for the other tomorrow.

Wake up people. Titus stop tunneling and listen to me. Join on almost.

Caky the same as Titus. Just trust me.

Maxous, you are likely scum so I don't give s fuck what you do. I will entertain you though. Case me, because "How was that town" isn't a case.

Andrius I get your frustration, I have been in your position in other games but please trust me here today.

It was claimed in thread he posted info on SirCakez and Shiro went down saying SirCakez and Titus are both town. So I would guess he checked SirCakez on D3. However that is all I see from his ISO.

[MathBlade]

Spoiler: Brief Game Summary

Day 1

Various wagons are tested, Magna is eventually lynched.


Also during this day, the deadline was mysteriously extended by over 100 years after 516 occurred. Wingdings have become a common theme during the game and I’ll discuss them in more detail in the scum team speculation section.

Day 2

Narna and McMenno become competing counterwagons, ending with McMenno being lynched. From 4009 onward, ALL mod communication in thread becomes wingdings. Since McMenno’s flip is obscured by this, I’ll post the translation here:
McMenno was sans, town lazy coroner.
nighttime abilities: during the night phase, you may select any dead player in the game to learn who targeted that player with a killing action on the night that they died. if this player was targeted by more than one killing action, you will learn the identities of all of that player's killers. you may only use this ability starting on night 7.
(yes, it was all in lower case)

Day 3

Because McMenno flipped town, Narna is quickly wagoned. However, Leonshade uses his governor ability to save them. Leonshade is eventually lynched for this.

Day 4

Narna’s psychologist role (which detects if a player has or has ever had access to a kill) gets a “guilty” on Shiro, who denies ever having access to a kill. He is however a miller, which he claimed day 1. Narna asks in private Skullduggery if millers would show as “guilty” on her check and is told they will not. However, Shiro amends his miller claim to global miller, which returns all investigative results as if he were a scum-aligned player. Ankamius (also a miller) backs this up saying his role functions similarly.


As of 5802, the deadline this day was suddenly slashed by a roughly a week.

Spoiler: All Claims

I’m including in this softs, since I doubt much has escaped a full scumteam’s notice.


Worth noting that investigative roles receive full reports including the target’s name, which means speculation as to possible busdrivers is faulty. Titus (dead town) confirms this in 3633. Giovanni and Narna have both confirmed this as well.

SirCakez:

No claim. However his role has been made public in a neighborhood which I believe consists currently of Firebringer, Andrius, and Creature (?) as Shiro was in it previously and had rolecopped him. This is stated in 6187. He did as of 6213 state he was roleblocked, indicating his role is one which gets some sort of feedback.

Giovanni il Pellegrino:

Weak unclaimed investigative role. First claimed weak in 4483 (Day 3), first claimed investigative in 4541, as of 6162 he confirms his role receives feedback. He confirms in 6322 that his weak modifier triggers any time he targets anyone who is not town. In 4539 he also states his role is even-night only. He claims to have targeted Maxous night 2 and Narna night 4.

Maxous:

Roleblocker. Claimed 3625 (Day 2) Claims to have roleblocked Shiro night 1, which is confirmed by earlier Shiro in 3541. Night 2 and 3 actions not claimed (??). Night 4 block was Creature, claimed in 6361.

Creature:

No claim to my knowledge.

PeregrineV:

No claim to my knowledge.

Nahdia:

Jailkeeper. First claimed 2136 (you can find a working link for the audio in 4104, though I should mentioned Skullduggery asked that no one else do this). My role allows other people to target my target, just not kill them. I targeted zakk night 1, massive night 2, no one night 3, and Maxous night 4. Obviously I was either roleblocked night 1 or there was a strongkill, since zakk died. Claimed my night 1 action in 3430, night 2 action in 4353 (should note i was wrong about my role mechanics in that post), night 3 action in 5964, night 4 action on 6216. Flavor claimed (well, heavily softed but by writing it here I confirm it) Muffet.

Firebringer:

Neighborizer. I don’t know the order of the targets, but it seems to have at certain points contained himself, Andrius, Creature, Titus, and Shiro. Not 100% where this was claimed. Andrius mentions Titus was a neighbor in 6165 and refers again to a hood in 6184.

Not Chara:

No claim to my knowledge.

Ankamius:

In 126, Ankamius states that he has a miller state, a hated state, and benefits from hammering. In 5976, he clarifies that his miller state returns guilties on all investigatives.

BigYoshiFan:

No claim to my knowledge.

Narna:

Psychologist; claims to be told whether a player has or has ever had the ability to kill each night. First claims this in 4238 (I feel like it was earlier but can’t find anything?). Also in that post claims to have checked massive night 2, they cannot kill.. In 4246 Narna claims to have missed the deadline for submitting an action on Night 1. They got a “guilty” on Shiro on Night 3, as of post 5676. Claimed to have gotten a “cannot kill” on myself in 6164. Flavor claimed Gerson.

Almost50:

Heavily softed supersaint with flavor “Annoying Dog”. Supersaint softs include 940 and 947 (Gamma Emerald is the spot’s predecessor). I make a nod at Almost50’s role in 4950 and Almost50 acknowledges I know his role in 4957 and totally confirms it in 5116. Flavor soft of Annoying Dog is in posts 6124 and 6125.

Andrius:

...I’m not sure, really. Andrius flavor claims Frisk all over the place. Makes allusion to possible pacifist and genocide routes in 3135 and 4057 and a bunch of other places but I’m not sure what they mean. In 5922 he claims Titus knew his role, perhaps it’s stated in the neighborhood? In 6165 he says Titus knows his “secret”.

massive:

Softed fruit vendor in 4219. I know his flavor, but I’ll let him decide if he wants it outed.

[MathBlade]

Oh and Shiro's
I know she was RB'ed N1, who did she target N2?

My hunch albeit I can't prove it is Shiro targeted Narna. The reason I say this is the post I sourced about scum having the psychologist role is just stupid. This either implies he believed Narna or had inside information to it. Since Shiro flipped rolecop I suspect the latter.

[MathBlade]

Might wanna update that. I THINK Creature claimed BP and Gio claimed follower.

I neither confirm nor deny Creature's prior claim. ( I am the replacement for Creature)

[MathBlade]

N1 - Shiro
N2 - Nahdia
N3 - Not Chara
N4 - Creature.

For disclosure

i wasn't blocked on night 3.

[MathBlade]

Creature, any chance you can confirm if the block on you was successful?

Nope.

[MathBlade]

Am I missing anything here?

Spoiler:

Maxous -
Targeted Shiro N1 and Shiro claimed roleblocked.
Targeted Nahdia N2. The discrepancy here is that Gio followed him and claimed he received "No Result." So Gio here could have been roleblocked or Maxous is lying or some bus driving occurred.
Targeted Not Chara N3. Denied by Not Chara
Targeted Creature/Mathblade N4. Jailed by Nahdia; Creature denies it.

Nahdia -
Targeted zakk N1, zakk died. Wasn’t roleblocked by Maxous.
Targeted massive N2
Targeted no one N3. Why, I don’t know.
Targeted Maxous N4

Narna -
Did not submit N1
Claims to have cleared massive N2
Claims to have a guilty on Shiro N3
Claims to have cleared Nahdia N4

Giovanni -
Targeted Maxous N2, received no result. Maxous claimed he roleblocked Nahdia.
Targeted Narna N4, received an investigation result.

Other options as I have discussed in my ISO could have happened.
You are also missing the Firebringer slot claimed neighborizer.

[MathBlade]

Andrius Titus and Shiro slots are all suspected to have been in that hood.

[MathBlade]

Ugh, there's so much that could have happened. I'll just start spewing ideas to myself, seeing what makes sense.

Pencil and paper can't be manipulated. Great place for that.

[MathBlade]

I like the Maxous/redirector theory. If he redirected Nahdia to Shiro N1 that would explain Shiro's RB and zakk's death. Just gotta see where he redirected N2, N3, and N4 so that this all makes sense.

Based on NAR his team would have one but Maxous himself cannot be it.

[MathBlade]

Nahdia targeted Maxous N4.
Maxous claimed he targeted my slot of which creature nor myself confirms or denies.

Blocks come before redirects in order of operation so if Maxous was redirector then Shiro roleblock on that day is unexplained.

[MathBlade]

Sorry Shiro dead off a line in my notes let me get right player.

[MathBlade]

@Shiro-OPen question to you still open.

@Giovanni- OPen question to you still open.

Which question ?

4645

O, I was blocked night 1, I have resuls on night 2 that I won't share unless caky is ok with.

Whoops Shiro got results on Cakes N2 (correction) which would make Narna N3

[MathBlade]

Also I was roleblocked last night

SirCakez was blocked N4

[MathBlade]

I like the Maxous/redirector theory. If he redirected Nahdia to Shiro N1 that would explain Shiro's RB and zakk's death. Just gotta see where he redirected N2, N3, and N4 so that this all makes sense.

the theory was bogus because Not Chara didn't understand they had been roleblocked on N3. ( I told y'all people misread their roles ALL THE TIME in larges)
That has since been clarified that they were roleblocked on N3

Narna is scum because his claim that he would not theoretically not get a guilty on a miller has been debunked by Shiro and by Mod.
nothing to do with night actions, he straight up lied and thought he wouldn't be caught out with it.
he was.

No they didn't. They maintain they weren't roleblocked I believe. Let me get the post.

[MathBlade]

i'm confused as to how Giovanni isn't clear on whether no action was performed, or if he was blocked. i can say with a hundref percent certainty, a simple question to the mod about the result can confirm that. unless Giovanni's is some kind of needlessly bastard role that gives vague results in those situations. which would be silly, none of the other investigations are like that.

pedit: i'm fine with trusting Mathblade.

[MathBlade]

roleblock situation: it was just confirmed to me that i was absolutely not roleblocked on night 3, in case that was in doubt

Almost: okay. though i had a second question. ;> who are the scum?
i agree with Ankamius. Peregrine is town.

Not Chara was not roleblocked N3

If there is a scum redirector it is not Maxous. It doesn't mean he isn't scum and it doesn't mean there isn't a redirector it just means that Maxous can't be a scum redirector unless something boosted him to the top of initiative and I see no such evidence of a power in the claims.

[MathBlade]

this later post Mathblade

my god. you have to be specific when speaking to Skullduggery. very. specific.

i've been told now that i really have no way of knowing whether i had been roleblocked or if there was just no result to get.

meaning test roleblocks on me are rather useless.

as was most of today's discussion. the way investigations are being resolved with roleblocks is explicitly non-normal in this setup.

i'm taking a break from night actions. hopefully someone was given interesting alignment info from reactions to this regardless.

Fine then N3 is null but my point stands about if scum have a redirector it can't be you without Nahdia also being scum which is all kinds of batshit insane.

[MathBlade]

Now let me go cook eggs in piece and Yoshi needs to post thoughts that aren't from little no peep.

[MathBlade]

this later post Mathblade

my god. you have to be specific when speaking to Skullduggery. very. specific.

i've been told now that i really have no way of knowing whether i had been roleblocked or if there was just no result to get.

meaning test roleblocks on me are rather useless.

as was most of today's discussion. the way investigations are being resolved with roleblocks is explicitly non-normal in this setup.

i'm taking a break from night actions. hopefully someone was given interesting alignment info from reactions to this regardless.

Did they ever "clarify," as you said, that they were indeed roleblocked?

The post says they have no way of knowing.

[MathBlade]

I still don't understand, Mathblade, on how Maxous can't be a redirector. Nahdia roleblocked him N4, are you saying you know that his action failed because of that?

I am saying by NAR

If Nadhia jailkept Maxous and Maxous did anything other than roleblock or what is above it in NAR it would not take effect.

Not Chara in their post said they cannot confirm or deny it. The roleblock might or might not have gone through.

[MathBlade]

Now I have to run to the store to get some eggs.

[MathBlade]

Okay, so are claiming that you weren't roleblocked N4?
If Maxous was a roleblocker, you would have been roleblocked, yes?
Th only way I can see you coming to this conclusion is because you were not roleblocked.

I am neither confirming nor denying I was roleblocked.

[MathBlade]

Same as the post I quoted.

[MathBlade]

By the way I think you are fishing to avoid posting thoughts Yoshi.

Maxous you too. Top 2 scumreads that aren't Narna. Go.

[MathBlade]

I still don't understand, Mathblade, on how Maxous can't be a redirector. Nahdia roleblocked him N4, are you saying you know that his action failed because of that?

I am saying by NAR

If Nadhia jailkept Maxous and Maxous did anything other than roleblock or what is above it in NAR it would not take effect.

Not Chara in their post said they cannot confirm or deny it. The roleblock might or might not have gone through.

I'm confused as all hell right now. You are saying here that if he was a roleblocker that you would have been roleblocked despite him being jailed. And if you are so sure that he can't be a redirector because of this, that means you were roleblocked Night 4 and you think he is a roleblocker. This is the information you presented to counter my Maxous/redirector theory and it is making no sense. What am I (not) seeing that is wrong?

That is not what I am saying at all look at the NAR

What I am saying is

Block
Redirect

Block comes before redirect. If Maxous had been almost anything other than a blocker then he would have not had that action go through.

SirCakez is claiming to be blocked. Either Nahdia is a liar or they were redirected to make that happen. Based on the NAR above the redirector could not have been Maxous if Nahdia is telling the truth.

[MathBlade]

That is the entirety of what I am saying. Maxous is more then likely still scum but if there is a redirector it is not him.

[MathBlade]

If Maxous happens to be town then the game is almost solved because it makes Nahdia a liar which makes Narna scum for the fake innocent on Nahdia. Pretty much the way I see it either Gio's innocent or Narna's is a piece of shit.

[MathBlade]

The reason I lean Gio's the liar too is because he voted his innocent read. That should never happen.

[MathBlade]

Okay... gotcha.
VOTE: Maxous

P-edit: Yes, agreed on Gio.

I told you not to sheep. What are your reads?

[MathBlade]

I obviously do. Sorry for the typo.

If Maxous happens to be town then the game is almost solved because it makes Nahdia a liar which makes Narna scum for the fake innocent on Nahdia. Pretty much the way I see it either Gio's innocent or Narna's is a piece of shit.

No wait but Gio confirmed Narna that still means Gio is a liar.

Damn but lynching Gio we learn nothing.

God I want Almost 50 Not Chara and Yoshi all on platters one of Maxous and Nahdia and Probably gio.

Fucking calling it. Maxous Gio Almost 50 Not Chara and Yoshi is it.

[MathBlade]

Town - Narna, MathBlade
Lean Town - massive, Nahdia, SirCakez
Null - PelegrineV, Pine
Lean Scum - Ankamius, Accountant
Scum - Not Chara, Almost50, Giovanni, Maxous

If I payed attention better during the last ten(s) pages I might have better reads.

Die scum die.

[MathBlade]

Although not until after you have helped us lynch all of your buddies.

[MathBlade]

Calling all townies:

I may be batshit crazy. I may be more crazy than you like but the fact of the matter is we need to do something. Post reads. Call me crazy. Vote people. Fucking play. Look we may lose but I for one am going down swinging so damn hard that no one will accuse me of not giving every last drop I had. Part of the game is attempting to force scum to steal defeat from the claws of victory.

Come on now let's all put what are reads out there and lynch us some scum. Let's play mafia and win together or lose together!

If you are wish me post your reads and let's fucking do this.

/rant mode

[MathBlade]

You're wrong but make your case.