Mini Normal 1829 - Game Over

[JarJarDrinks]

i lied about my role pm

Too late for that.
VOTE: MariaR

If Maria flips town, we flashlynch Transcend.

[JarJarDrinks]

Jarjar made one post and it wasn't a joking post it was a chainsaw lynch post that was god awful

THIS wasn't a joke post?

i lied about my role pm

Too late for that.
VOTE: MariaR

If Maria flips town, we flashlynch Transcend.

[JarJarDrinks]

role pm told me they're scum

VOTE: michelsableheart

k i lied about my role pm

Maria, explain your logic in scumreading me here. I see these posts by transcend and decide that I can get him lynched because people are gonna take this as a serious claim?

[JarJarDrinks]

I am voting maria

[JarJarDrinks]

Where the F did I say "I want to stay in RVS stage!" I'm saying we're still in it

RVS is subjective - some people can be in it and some out of it.

Yeah I think this post clearly shows maria knows this:

I've read every post Nero

this is still RVS stage for me

sorry I'm not matching up with your standards don't belittle me k thanks

Like the above post is clearly the answer to: Where the F did I say "I want to stay in RVS stage!"

She says it right there.

[JarJarDrinks]

Townreading Thor and probably Nero. This is a good wagon.

[JarJarDrinks]

Shadow: Word to the wise, I never defended Blitzkrieg.

I said that the vote that Michel made on her was shit, and confronted him about it.

No the michel vote was only 1 thing you mentioned. And you didn't even talk about the michel vote right away. The first 2 posts where you "never defended" Blitzkrieg, you were seemingly responding to Thors vote:

Spoiler:

Vote: Blitzkrieg

this wagon sucks

Why do you town read Blitz?

I don't

But the way she's been wagoned is dumb.

See, no mention of michel.

[JarJarDrinks]

If you do decide to show up and answer stuff...

This is all cute and all you wanting me to explain my reasoning with a pressure vote because

none of you scumread me I am null or townread

simple your cheap try to get me to explain won't work if you unvote me I'll say why I made such a statement if not. I have nothing to say about it

Why don't you believe anyone scumreads you?

[JarJarDrinks]

because everyone's posts seem to revolve around one or both of these 2 being scum so farso everyone is posting similar content and i have nothing appreciable to say yet

nice non-answer.

[JarJarDrinks]

If everyone's posting about how those 2 are scum, and you think the wagons suck, how do you not have more to say about the people on those wagons?

[JarJarDrinks]

jar jar, Do you scumread trancend?

I do.

[JarJarDrinks]

though I don't like a transcend/maria scumteam.

[JarJarDrinks]

So you want to vote Maria so you can lynch Trancend if she flips town? I mean Maria is an acceptable policy lynch but that seems ass backwards.

huh no? That was totally a joke post and I had no read on either of them when I originally voted.

I scumread them for the reasons I posted afterwards. I just happened to still have my RVS vote on maria.

[JarJarDrinks]

And the maria vote isn't policy. Where are u getting that from?

[JarJarDrinks]

Do you think she's scummy?

[JarJarDrinks]

Oh in case it wasn't clear, I'm scumreading kraska also.

[JarJarDrinks]

Look at how fast this bw on me happened I am obv af town no one busses scum this early

Ur town af cause scum wouldn't bus this early? Any reason it can't be all town on your wagon?

[JarJarDrinks]

The reason I'm not answering the question is because I want people's thoughts on the question I myself asked if anyone can answer we can move forward and talk about it if no one does I see no reason to say my logic behind it

Ur not in a position to refuse to answer questions cause u want peoples thoughts. Ur basically @ L-1.

[JarJarDrinks]

@Jarjar and nero
What makes transcend scum? Bc I'm not seeing it

Here's what I got:

Shadow: Word to the wise, I never defended Blitzkrieg.

I said that the vote that Michel made on her was shit, and confronted him about it.

No the michel vote was only 1 thing you mentioned. And you didn't even talk about the michel vote right away. The first 2 posts where you "never defended" Blitzkrieg, you were seemingly responding to Thors vote:

Spoiler:

Vote: Blitzkrieg

this wagon sucks

Why do you town read Blitz?

I don't

But the way she's been wagoned is dumb.

See, no mention of michel.

[JarJarDrinks]

UNVOTE:

[JarJarDrinks]

If you do decide to show up and answer stuff...

This is all cute and all you wanting me to explain my reasoning with a pressure vote because

none of you scumread me I am null or townread

simple your cheap try to get me to explain won't work if you unvote me I'll say why I made such a statement if not. I have nothing to say about it

Why don't you believe anyone scumreads you?

answer this now

[JarJarDrinks]

If you do decide to show up and answer stuff...

This is all cute and all you wanting me to explain my reasoning with a pressure vote because

none of you scumread me I am null or townread

simple your cheap try to get me to explain won't work if you unvote me I'll say why I made such a statement if not. I have nothing to say about it

Why don't you believe anyone scumreads you?

answer this now

Sorry I didn't see this well mostly because I don't think I've done anything scummy.

It's just wierd. You tried to explain the whole wagon on you away as pressure.

And you say that everyone either has you as null or town. But where's the option of "Some of you are scum". Especially since you later say that u believe scum is on your wagon.


In other words: post 89 doesn't sound like someone that thinks scum is on their wagon.

[JarJarDrinks]

Maria's kinda convincing me.

[JarJarDrinks]

but I change going into each game so I don't really have 1 type of game

Huh? That's like not @ all what u said.

[JarJarDrinks]

like you keep repeating how if u were scum, you'd never allow urself to be caught so easily.

Well can u be so sure if you keep changing ur playstyle?

[JarJarDrinks]

I'm flipflopping back to scumreading maria.

[JarJarDrinks]

Maria, I don't understand. If you're saying that as scum, people would already be townreading you, then why wouldn't you try getting townread as town? You obviously know how.

[JarJarDrinks]

don't forget to explain ur reads Transcend

[JarJarDrinks]

this reads list i'm about to post is mostly helpful for me

notepad.exe?

[JarJarDrinks]

crank this

[JarJarDrinks]

Riiiiiight.So you know exactly what you need to do to get a bunch of people to town read you.You'll do it as scum to help your win con as scum.But you won't do it as town to help your win con as town.

It's apparently because she finds it "cheap"...

[JarJarDrinks]

Anyways I'm sure there's one, possibly two scum on Maria's bandwagon.

Michel is for sure the best scum candidate on that wagon followed by Elyse.

If maria is town then I do like Elyse as scum. But still leaning scum on maria rn.

[JarJarDrinks]

Why does everyone have to explain every damn action they take this game.

Cause people writing words and posting them is literally the only way that scum can be caught (outside of PRs).

[JarJarDrinks]

you guys have to remember that town can ALSO be lazy just like scum

in fact i think town are more likely to be lazy than scum since scum have an advantage of knowing who's which alignment and town have to figure it out.

What is this referring to?

[JarJarDrinks]

Just to everyone who thinks that someone is scum for being lazy.

Is someone doing this in this game?

[JarJarDrinks]

Transcend, If we hang maria and she flips red, you don't get to use the "Why would I hard defend my scumbuddy?" defense tomorrow.

Just letting u know.

[JarJarDrinks]

Transcend, If we hang maria and she flips red, you don't get to use the "Why would I hard defend my scumbuddy?" defense tomorrow.

Just letting u know.

May I ask what you sr me

gut

[JarJarDrinks]

that was a joke. I'll get a real answer

[JarJarDrinks]

Also are u scumreading me?

[JarJarDrinks]

For starters, I think ur "scumread" of me was bad.

Jarjar made one post and it wasn't a joking post it was a chainsaw lynch post that was god awful

THIS wasn't a joke post?

i lied about my role pm

Too late for that.
VOTE: MariaR

If Maria flips town, we flashlynch Transcend.

role pm told me they're scum

VOTE: michelsableheart

k i lied about my role pm

Maria, explain your logic in scumreading me here. I see these posts by transcend and decide that I can get him lynched because people are gonna take this as a serious claim?

You never really addressed this.

[JarJarDrinks]

Here's where I explain how your scumreads of people on ur wagon don't really feel genuine:

Spoiler:

If you do decide to show up and answer stuff...

This is all cute and all you wanting me to explain my reasoning with a pressure vote because

none of you scumread me I am null or townread

simple your cheap try to get me to explain won't work if you unvote me I'll say why I made such a statement if not. I have nothing to say about it

Why don't you believe anyone scumreads you?

answer this now

Sorry I didn't see this well mostly because I don't think I've done anything scummy.

It's just wierd. You tried to explain the whole wagon on you away as pressure.

And you say that everyone either has you as null or town. But where's the option of "Some of you are scum". Especially since you later say that u believe scum is on your wagon.


In other words: post 89 doesn't sound like someone that thinks scum is on their wagon.

Like u wouldn't say "none of you scumread me I am null or townread" to a wagon u believe is scum led.

[JarJarDrinks]

And I think the "I'm so awesome @ being scum I wouldn't be getting roped rn" as such a scummy defense.

[JarJarDrinks]

I wouldn't let myself get roped day 1 as scum I'd pull out all the stops but I'm not doing that for obv reason.

Reasons aren't obvious to me. "cuz it's cheap" isn't a reason.

[JarJarDrinks]

I suppose you're right I'd rather lose and be proud of the game I played then feel bad and win

I wouldn't feel proud playing beneath my skill level - but whatever floats your boat I suppose.

You'd do anything you could do to win even if it could make the game unenjoyable for the people you're playing with? I won't judge but you do you

Huh? Aren't you telling us that this is EXACTLY HOW YOU PLAY AS SCUM?

[JarJarDrinks]

I pride myself in my scum game on this site

if I was scum I would be capslock raging and self voting saying lynch me atm

You'd do anything you could do to win even if it could make the game unenjoyable for the people you're playing with?

I'd rather lose and be proud of the game I played then feel bad and win

[JarJarDrinks]

That's some serious contradiction there.

[JarJarDrinks]

need VC but consider my vote back on maria.

[JarJarDrinks]

I'll play along

Huh? Aren't you telling us that this is EXACTLY HOW YOU PLAY AS SCUM?

Sometimes depends on my mood. I try not to though.

So it's entirely possible that you could be getting lynched as scum day 1 right?

Cause depending on your mood you might not "pull out all the stops" correct?

[JarJarDrinks]

You're talking out of 1 side of ur mouth saying "I try not to play that way cause it's unenjoyable for people"

And the other side says "Of course I'm not scum. If I was scum I'd totally play that way.

How can u pretend that's not a contradiction?

[JarJarDrinks]

I was planning on voting Transcend and taking my meta tr back because I think people towntell best under a ton of pressure so if he could towntell it would make it easier for everyone to understand my townread on him like I already have.

Pressure from a mason partner usually works awesomely.

[JarJarDrinks]

before i got eat, one more thing. I don't buy the mason claims lmao, and you shouldn't either.

so do u think they're both scum? or...?

[JarJarDrinks]

@Transcend. U absolutely stand by this claim? Ur masons (and not neighbors) right? No takebacks after ur next post. If u say u lied @ some point later, u get lynched.

[JarJarDrinks]

As I said, if maria is town, I like Elyse as scum. I think Kraska would be my 2nd choice.

[JarJarDrinks]

VOTE: kraska77

[JarJarDrinks]

Like aside from elyse, kraska has shit on every wagon. There's just too much defending on day 1 from town.

[JarJarDrinks]

jarjar's post doesnt look serious to me
idk about michael he could just be tryhard town

Defends me and michel

which wagons? maria and michel?
both wagons suck

Defends michel and maria

@Jarjar and nero
What makes transcend scum? Bc I'm not seeing it

Defends transcend

michel kinda feels like iraonvap(whatever the spelling)i'd rather we keep him around bc i feel like he can be an easy mislynch

Defends michel again

Then he goes on to defend maria a whole bunch more:

No ur play is finePpl's scumreads on u are shallow/lazy

if uve really seen scummaria before, u would know that scumher is consistent as f this doesnt resemble her scumplay at all

yes but tell me why she would think approaching the game the way she did will help her as scum?and she had chances to town it up but she kept baiting rope
this doesnt look like scum

my point is her ate here is not helping her. its clearly backfiing on herso stop with the "calulated" shit

This is just insane to me cause maria has been scummy as F. She's been so scummy that people seem almost willing to lynch her through a double mason claim. There's no way he should have been townreading her so strongly.

[JarJarDrinks]

His case on me in a nutshell is I've "defended" a bunch of people and that somehow makes me scum

No it doesn't just automatically make you scum. It's just scummy to defend so many people on day 1 since scum usually wont want to be aggressive.

And the maria defense in particular is really the worst part cause of how hard u defended her. I just don't believe you could have had such a strong townread based on her play this game.

[JarJarDrinks]

She tr's me because of meta if I'm not mistaken

Yup, here's what SHE said:

if uve really seen scummaria before, u would know that scumher is consistent as f
this doesnt resemble her scumplay at all

Didn't you tell us that your play is in fact NOT consistent? That you always change shit up cause u don't want to be meta'd?

[JarJarDrinks]

She tr's me because of meta if I'm not mistaken

Yup, here's what SHE said:

if uve really seen scummaria before, u would know that scumher is consistent as f
this doesnt resemble her scumplay at all

Didn't you tell us that your play is in fact NOT consistent? That you always change shit up cause u don't want to be meta'd?

Yes but I don't tell people that and she's only played 1 game with me before (I was scum) so her logic adds up.

Wait. How can she call ur scum game consistent if she's only played one game with you?

You think THAT logic adds up?

[JarJarDrinks]

well I guess Kraska can explain what he meant by consistent.

[JarJarDrinks]

Seriously Transcend, If you're lying about the mason thing, ur gonna get blacklisted by everyone in this game.

[JarJarDrinks]

Unless ur both scum. In which case I applaud the balls-out play.

[JarJarDrinks]

would rather lynch Elyse, but the Kraska push feels valid to me.

This is my opinion in reverse.

[JarJarDrinks]

Basing your scumreads on unconfirmed (and probably false) mason claims is ridiculous

stupid mason claim I want to lynch you with fire

So why can't u lynch maria w/ fire?

[JarJarDrinks]

no one's going to support a lynch on a mason d1

Yeah and the reason is cause it most likely comes from town.

[JarJarDrinks]

And did u mean "no one's going to support a lynch on a mason

claim

d1"

[JarJarDrinks]

VOTE: Transcend

[JarJarDrinks]

You know im town idiot

I think u'r scum w/ either kraska or Elyse (probably elyse since she seemed pretty sure the mason claim was false) and saw ur plan backfire and now ur purposefully moving the wagon back to maria.

[JarJarDrinks]

Great post

[JarJarDrinks]

Not sure what ur talking about trans. Michel has some of the best posts of the game thus far. I don't get how he can be scumread AT ALL.

[JarJarDrinks]

FYI, the blacklist thing was a gambit. I don't blacklist people.

[JarJarDrinks]

Also keep calling people idiots trans.

If you are town and get lynched here, it's because of your own terrible ego-driven gambit.

Garbage plays like that from town are what ruin perfectly good games of mafia.

[JarJarDrinks]

I'm new and yet every single game I've been in someone fakeclaims mason day 1
U guys have older join dates and yet u believe that stuff and make a big deal out of a gambit like that's not usual business on this site

I haven't seen it.

Regardless it doesn't change what I said.

[JarJarDrinks]

I was literally protecting a townread.

Which is terrible play as town. Even if you're correct about it, by making that claim, the wagon dissolves and now we can't analyze the votes on it since everyone (town and scum) will all have the same reaction: unvoting.

Furthermore, you risk yourself getting lynched once the lie comes out.

Like I said, plays like that lose games for town.

[JarJarDrinks]

Also looking @ your ISO trans, it looks like you were planning to townread maria before the game even started.

[JarJarDrinks]

You were already townreading her here:

Jar and Michael are early scumreads

K yeah let's be power town again *hops in le pocket*

What did u see in her 4 posts that came before this to townread her?

[JarJarDrinks]

Just checked on Karnos and he's a slight scumread for me. His reasons for voting have been terrible.

[JarJarDrinks]

for reference:

I don't like this refusal to explain from MariaR. Lets rope this.

VOTE: gerryoat

I don't get your soft fake claim BS.

[JarJarDrinks]

Maybe we should just lynch transcend, because

he is going to be lynchbait

in lylo if he lives that long, and

I don't scum killing him

.

Or maybe we should lynch him cause he could be scum right?

[JarJarDrinks]

if we have a vig shoot Karnos please and if he flips green I'll self vote there is 100% mafia in Elyse/Karnos look at this back pedal

Okay Thor, I'll vote MariaR.

Get her to L-1 and I will hammer.

Why can't you vote her first?

[JarJarDrinks]

If you think it's a chainsaw defense, why not vote Maria, since she has more support for a lynch?

And this isn't true. Transcend has 3 votes to marias 2

[JarJarDrinks]

@trans, u got a reason why u think Michel is scum?

[JarJarDrinks]

Like there's not another person voting for him and I don't think that many people are scumreading him.

If you truly wanted to get him lynched, I'd think you'd post a case or something rather than keep screaming that he's scum.

[JarJarDrinks]

@trans, u got a reason why u think Michel is scum?

I'm actually more interested why he thinks karnos is town.

Sure. But the fact that he's tunneled the shit out of Michel, calling him obvious scum and whatnot without giving any reason is scummy as F. Like all he's said is that his reads suck.

[JarJarDrinks]

Like seriously go read Trans ISO. There's like no reasoning behind ANY of his reads (scum or town).

[JarJarDrinks]

Look at me still being L-3 Rofl...!!!

Yeah I think it's funny too. I was hoping u'd be lynched by now.

[JarJarDrinks]

It was a GAMBIT???????

It's just more crappy distraction designed to look like he's actually participating.

A town player that already caused a ruckus w/ the mason claim doesn't make another stupid pointless play.

[JarJarDrinks]

JJD:

I don't exactly think you're scum for this but....

If you thought I was BSing my mason claim why did you vote me immediately when I retracted as opposed to when I was actually claiming mason...

I didn't think u were BSing ur mason claim. I was skeptical of it which is why I grilled u about it. But ultimately I had to believe it cause that's how mafia work. Only the most terrible ego-driven townies would would risk the game w stupid gambits like that.

[JarJarDrinks]

Can you stop for two fucking seconds and acknowledge that there is a

chance

that my "gambit" was intended to benefit the town and not to benefit my scum game?

I'm not calling u confirmed scum or anything so yeah, I acknowledge that there is a chance that ur gambit was

intended

to benefit the town.

What I don't acknowledge, is that there was any chance that ur gambit actually could benefit town.

[JarJarDrinks]

Michel said I was scum for quite some time but only votes me when JJD votes me. "hmm this could possibly get momentum lemme go here".

Or maybe he voted you for as soon as u revealed u were fake claiming? Pretty sure it was his first post after ur admission.

[JarJarDrinks]

that was a pretty fast catchup shadow. Anything else to add?

[JarJarDrinks]

for all i know, mariar could be bum-fucking me again like she did in one game.

See I don't think someone that is town and believes the above would say something like this to me:

Or maybe you're a dumb blind idiot who can't see when he's getting manipulated.

And risk looking like a damn fool.

[JarJarDrinks]

I would lynch Kraska, Maria, or Elyse. I would happily help policy Shadow.

Why not transcend

[JarJarDrinks]

It's not logical to reveal your logic in game. So I don't see how you can say I'm not a logical player.

Isn't this the answer Trump just gave about how to defeat ISIS?

[JarJarDrinks]

i really hate insufferable cunts like you that deathtunnel me JJD.

What would u call what ur doing to Michel?

[JarJarDrinks]

Because literally the best case I could make is "he's derp tunneling" and I don't think tunneling is scummy, I just think it causes some anti-town issues occasionally.

There's no way he can have such a strong scumread on Michel. Michel looks fine. Just like there's no way he can have such a strong townread on maria.

It looks like he decided what his reads were gonna be and then looked for reasons after the fact. Go reread his ISO. Look @ how many times he calls Michel scum w/o posting any real reason. He never tries to convince anyone that Michel is scum. He knows damn well that screaming "OMG HE'S OBVSCUM" isn't gonna get anyone to follow him.

[JarJarDrinks]

here's another example of him having a read and then coming up w/ reasons after the fact:

Shadow: Word to the wise, I never defended Blitzkrieg.

I said that the vote that Michel made on her was shit, and confronted him about it.

No the michel vote was only 1 thing you mentioned. And you didn't even talk about the michel vote right away. The first 2 posts where you "never defended" Blitzkrieg, you were seemingly responding to Thors vote:

Spoiler:

Vote: Blitzkrieg

this wagon sucks

Why do you town read Blitz?

I don't

But the way she's been wagoned is dumb.

See, no mention of michel.

He says that the wagon sucked (implying that he townreads blitz). But when u confront him about it, he says he was just saying that Michels vote sucked. Which I proved wasn't true.

[JarJarDrinks]

i have justified my reasons for lynching michel, you're just a fucking ignorant twat.

Finally on page 34, u made a single post that somewhat explains your read. Doesn't change what I wrote. You deathtunneled for 30+ pages w/o ever telling us why u scumread the person.

[JarJarDrinks]

here's another example of him having a read and then coming up w/ reasons after the fact:

Shadow: Word to the wise, I never defended Blitzkrieg.

I said that the vote that Michel made on her was shit, and confronted him about it.

No the michel vote was only 1 thing you mentioned. And you didn't even talk about the michel vote right away. The first 2 posts where you "never defended" Blitzkrieg, you were seemingly responding to Thors vote:

Spoiler:

Vote: Blitzkrieg

this wagon sucks

Why do you town read Blitz?

I don't

But the way she's been wagoned is dumb.

See, no mention of michel.

He says that the wagon sucked (implying that he townreads blitz). But when u confront him about it, he says he was just saying that Michels vote sucked. Which I proved wasn't true.

k we get it you're dumb in the head. i have stated several times that i didn't TR blitz, I just said that the vote Michel made was absolute garbage and overjustified nonsense.

Um no. did u open the spoiler tag? I already disproved this.

[JarJarDrinks]

i have justified my reasons for lynching michel, you're just a fucking ignorant twat.

Finally on page 34, u made a single post that somewhat explains your read. Doesn't change what I wrote. You deathtunneled for 30+ pages w/o ever telling us why u scumread the person.

I HAVE EXPLAINED THE READ SEVERAL FUCKING TIMES YOU BLIND PIECE OF FUCKING SHIT.

Oh sorry I must have missed it. Could you kindly link me to where you did before page 34?

[JarJarDrinks]

I will agree his play is terrible.Both Maria and I have played with him before and don't seem utterly shocked at this play.Go read some of his games and then get back to me with a claim that this is a valid scumtell.And please don't ask me to defend his play.

I played in a game w/ scumtrans before and I think this is the same. He deathtunneled me the same way and also townread another player that everyone was scumreading (like here w/ maria).

[JarJarDrinks]

been phone following while @ a doc appointment. I dont require an apology and I really want thor to stay in the game. Will reread and post thoughts shortly.

[JarJarDrinks]

yeah i knew it you're just being a paranoid idiot due to our last game.

Has nothing to do w/ our last game. I only mentioned it cause thor asked me to check ur meta.

[JarJarDrinks]

You should both assess how your scum read is or isn't affected by his attitude in the last few pages.
If you're just annoyed at him, request replacement for him or yourself, as I have done.
But don't lie to yourselves or to me about how him being rude equates to him being scum - it just shows he's a rude person, his role PM doesn't change that.

I'm not annoyed @ him or equating his rudeness to being scum. I've played w/ way worse.

I think he's scum and his attitude is due to him truly believing that he's being scumread for bad reasons. Scum never like to blame themselves when they get lynched.

[JarJarDrinks]

also i'm pretty sure your fos on me is based on last game as you think i'm tunneling michel the way i tunneled you and you think i'm buddying maria like i did scout.

i'll be the first to say i deathtunnel every fos i have to the grave as both alignments, and buddy all my townreads to the grave as both alignments.

i'm very defensive and offensive.

Cool. If you were deathtunneling a scummy slot or buddying a townie slot, I'd be more inclined to believe u.

[JarJarDrinks]

fwiw replace-outs make games less fun for me.

[JarJarDrinks]

don't suppose I can convince u to stay and just policy lynch trans?

[JarJarDrinks]

Replacement coming in and hard scumreading Maria would be the ultimate justice.

[JarJarDrinks]

Maria, if you happened to roll scum in a game where trans was town, would you try to buddy up to him and emulate how ur acting in this game?

[JarJarDrinks]

You're not going to be helpful to this town what so ever

Thor is easily one the most helpful players in this game. If you're not scum then you're one of the obstacles the town needs to overcome.

Like seriously, if ur town then u have to realize that fact that so many people are scumreading you as your own fault and how it's it's a distraction.

[JarJarDrinks]

UNVOTE:

gig is towntelling a little bit. Not enough to totally negate my scumread of the slot but enough for an unvote. Also feel like a scum replacement doesn't make that claim there.

[JarJarDrinks]

Elyse is probably town. glad that didnt happen.

I'll do a full readlist when I get to work tomorrow.

[JarJarDrinks]

@JJD
The ascetic claim is scummy to me. Transcend didn't claim it and then giga's claim seemed more of a "just in case" claim if someone got a no result on him or something. If giga truly believes that claiming ascetic is protown, then I feel as though he would do it as either alignment. It's scummy to me only because Transcend didn't claim it.

IDK, I feel like it draws attention to him which he wouldn't want to do.

Still probably leaning scum on the slot though.

[JarJarDrinks]

If you can get a wagon that's not on giga going I'd support it.

huh?

[JarJarDrinks]

The question I've asked myself is what reason does scum transcend do that for:

1) Town Maria
2) Scum Maria

I see more of a reason for #2 and less for #1.

Then when you factor him backing off for potentially being blacklisted, why does scum transcend back off for #1 and #2 above?

The wagon on Maria was dying by the time he backed off, but once again a scum gambit would never get him black listed so what benefit unless both are scum.

I find scum transcend town Maria as the least likely combination of the 4.

These are some good points IAI. I think I agree w/ this analysis and probably would support Maria lynch over giga now.

[JarJarDrinks]

god, i hate day 1 in forum mafia. it's such a clusterfuck. And I can never get reads until one person is lynched. Someone mentor me in better day 1s as town and what to look for.

And Gerry is prob town fml

3 days ago said I was prob town.

Now let's go back and put this in a time frame. I went from prob town about 2 days ago. to null about a day ago. to all of a sudden her voting me with her main scumread right now (who she was just voting) does anyone see something wrong with this?

Agree

[JarJarDrinks]

Scum me could of prob flipped to the giga wagon if I felt like it because giga was offering herself on a plate and that's prob the play I would of went for but now I feel content with your lynch

lolwut? How in the world can u EVER vote giga this game? That'd be a scumclaim.

[JarJarDrinks]

Whats this "giga is obv town" thing that you have going?

I have a "giga is obv town" thing going?

[JarJarDrinks]

What I'm saying is:

MARIA has treated giga as confirmed scum this entire game. Then she says that if she was scum she would have voted giga a few pages ago.

I'm saying that MARIA would be scumclaiming if she voted for giga @ any point this game so her statement is an obvious lie.

[JarJarDrinks]

heh, yeah u got what I meant.

Readlist almost ready

[JarJarDrinks]

Thor

- Town. Like every one of his posts scream town to me. The scumhunting, the reads, the reaction to trans's shitposting. I don't agree w/ him scumreading Elyse @ all but hey, people make bad reads.

Elyse

- Town. Don't really get why people are scumreading this. Reads seem good and her response to her wagon reads town to me. Only thing about Elyse I don't like is how I kinda feel like she really knew the mason claim was fake. But I guess I had doubts too. And regardless that'd still mean maria or giga are better lynches.

Michel

- Town. I find myself agreeing w/ most of what michel writes. Him not wanting to lynch outside of the mason claims reads town to me as scum should be trying to keep his options open.

gerry

- townlean. I think the fake vig "claim" reads town to me. Scum don't like calling attention to themselves. Wish he'd give us more content but I don't see anything to scumread him for

IAI

- townlean. Scumhunting feels genuine and the progression of his reads feel very logical.

Nero

- slight Town lean. Lotsa scumhunting and putting his opinion and explanations out there. Was gonna have him higher but don't really like how when I read his ISO, his reads on maria/gig weren't really that clear.

karnos

- null. I don't like the attack on gerry for his "claim" and feel like he post too much game theory fluff rather than scumreads. But I like his approach to the mason thing and feel like some of his posts about it are just too ballsy for scum to make.

kraska

- slight scumlean. I've pointed out the scuminess in her defending so many people on day 1. not really much for me to townread BUT one thing DOES read pretty town to me: She seemed genuinely concerned about Thor replacing out and tried to make peace between everyone.

Blitz

- scumlean. After the mason claim blitz unvotes and says that she townreads trans but still scumreads maria. That makes no sense. Also there's not much scumhunting in blitz's iso @ all.

giga

- Scumlean. Hated trans. Like giga a little better but still leaning scum. Agree w/ IAI's reasoning about scum-giga/town-maria being unlikely so prob wont pursue this (until maria flips scum @ least)

Shadow

- Scum. No scumhunting @ all. Lotsa fluff in his posts and he has like zero reads. And man his "Your scum gambit isn't going to work" @ gerry is so contrived,

Maria

- Scum. I will work on putting a case together as this is who I think should be lynched today.

[JarJarDrinks]

BUT one thing DOES read pretty town to me: She seemed genuinely concerned about Thor replacing out and tried to make peace between everyone.

You're saying if she got a scum rolePM she *wouldn't* have done that?
Because these feels like a personality tell more than an alignment tell, just like Nero's white knight theory with IAI.

I guess it's hard for me to judge other people's personality. But I read you as strong town so trying to keep you in the game is a pro-town play to me.

[JarJarDrinks]

VOTE: Maria

L-1

[JarJarDrinks]

Maria

- Scum. I will work on putting a case together as this is who I think should be lynched today.

Not sure this is really needed since it looks like she's likely getting roped but I guess I'll look through her ISO and point shit out.

[JarJarDrinks]

maybe she'll show up and claim a 3rd role

[JarJarDrinks]

Jar and Michael are early scumreads

Why is Trancend a town read?

Meta.

K, Maria had real reads very early in the game.


A few posts later:

Why are you still RVSing with two scumreads?

Why are you so uptight with only 60 posts we're not even close to out of RVS stage

I think it's pretty clear that those are serious reads so this statement is BS.

[JarJarDrinks]

Look at how fast this bw on me happened I am obv af town no one busses scum this early

Ur town af cause scum wouldn't bus this early? Any reason it can't be all town on your wagon?

I don't think town would vote me this early because I honestly don't see the reason I'm getting voted

Look @ this BS exchange. She calls herself obvtown because scum would never bus this early. When I ask her why scum has to be on her wagon she says town wouldn't vote her early cause she doesn't see the reason.

How can that possibly be? She was @ L-2 so obviously there has to be a bunch of town on the wagon.

[JarJarDrinks]

I honestly almost want to fake claim just to stay alive but I know I shouldn't do that on this site

so I'm just gonna claim VT I don't know what I did wrong I guess my town game is awful on this site and my scum game is great that's ironic.

Bolded is very LAMIST. Why does she need to write that out?

Furthermore if she knows she shouldn't fake claim on this site then why does she go ahead and do it shortly after?

[JarJarDrinks]

Jar stop getting in my way
I'm trying to save Maria here

I thought that was only "if she comes in here and explains herself" ??

[JarJarDrinks]

Hopefully when elyse shows up and sees the maria wagon she'll hop on it.

[JarJarDrinks]

I wouldn't be surprised if she made a PR claim.

I was only half joking when suggesting she'd show up and claim a 3rd role.

[JarJarDrinks]

@krask,

U like blitz-scum regardless of how maria flips?

[JarJarDrinks]

VOTE: shadow

[JarJarDrinks]

Jarjar, what's your read on me now?

Ur probably town. IAI laid out some good reasoning in 1114 why ur slot doesn't make sense w/ a town maria.

If Elyse or Kraska flip scum I probably go back to suspecting u since they were the likely lynches when trans renegged his claim.

What karnos posts where "too ballsy" for scum to make?

I don't believe the mason claims, personally. But I don't think MariaR and tansend are both scum either. Could be one scum between them, or both town even, but lets at least give the pair a night or two to see how scum treat the claim.

All else being equal, any lynch (outside of myself) has an equal chance of hitting scum. But lynching transcend would additionally give some interesting information about MariaR, where I don't see any other lynch giving the same bonus information.

[JarJarDrinks]

SIpeaking of which, i don't understand why everyone seems to blindly trust thor
There's nothing particularly towny in his iso

crazytalk

[JarJarDrinks]

With a that lurking they are doing you'll be waiting a long time. :/

Fuck off, go and check what lurking means. I live in a different timezone.

Yeah, what ur doing is the definition of lurking. I don't care what timezone ur in. The few posts that you are making are filled w/ zero content.

You're:

- barely pushing the few scumreads you have
- not letting anyone know what ur other reads are
- not trying to scumhunt even a little bit

[JarJarDrinks]

And yeah I agree w/ people that karnos is probably shadows scumbuddy

First off, the quickhammer looks bad for reasons already stated.

And like, shadow has given us 2 scumreads: gerry and karnos. But all he's really done is push gerry. He threw a shitty vote @ karnos that never materialized but other then that, hasn't pushed that read at all.

[JarJarDrinks]

Yeah, after forther review I see no reason to move my vote. Shadow_step increases in scum level by 50dkp, but transcend's slot is still scummy after the replace.

Sorry, the fake masonry is a big deal. It wasn't an obvious joke and it had a lot of potentially to seriously hurt town via real mason CC or by reading Maria wrong.

Makes sure to let us know he's scumreading shadow even though he's not voting there.

[JarJarDrinks]

Reads.

Shadow_step lurks a lot. voted me. probably scum because

I am biased

.
Thor665 logical player, hard to read.
Elyse seems towny, came to mostly same conclusions as me regarding transcends silly gambits.
gerryoat seems scummy, but might just be the EM play style shining through. unsure.
gigabyteTroubadour I miss the crying in spansish avatar. probably scum.
karnos I'm very town.
JarJarDrinks could jarjar secretly be the sith lord? probably not.
Nero Cain this seems to be some old player everyone respects. i don't like his reads so far.
I Am Innocent obviously town, his name isn't "i am guilty"
MichelSableheart awkward town, which some players read as scum. hope he gives some good insight before he gets misslynched
MariaR wildcard, fair chance of flipping scum but

not my top vote for the day

kraska77 haven't read enough of her posts to say
Blitzkrieg "

2 scummy things:

- Obviously quickhammering someone who's not his top vote of the day once it looks like shadow (who he's scumreading) might get roped instead.

- And again he tells us shadow is a scumread. BUT he lets people know that he may be biased so THEY probably shouldn't be scumreading him

[JarJarDrinks]

I have no clue what giga is saying either. But it looks towny.

[JarJarDrinks]

Nero, thor, giga are all strong townreads rn

[JarJarDrinks]

And the following are all townleans: Elyse, gerry, Michel, kraska

[JarJarDrinks]

which leaves shadow/karnos/blitz as the scumteam

[JarJarDrinks]

I thought shadow was scummy yesterday, but the speed of this wagon and the presence of scummy individuals on it makes me think he is probably town.

It's all town on his wagon bro.

[JarJarDrinks]

Shadow, claim. ur p much @ L-1

[JarJarDrinks]

Double standards much?

Gerry is town cause ur "scumread" on him sure as hell aint a bus. Not cause of anything he did.

[JarJarDrinks]

I thought shadow was scummy yesterday, but the speed of this wagon and the presence of scummy individuals on it makes me think he is probably town.

It's all town on his wagon bro.

didn't you have a scum read on transcend yesterday? You know when someone replaces in they don't get a new role pm, right?

I explained already.

[JarJarDrinks]

You didn't explain, IAI explained. It's a fallacy to suggest that confirmed town dead players have correct reads, so you should at least use your own logic instead of just sheeping IAI.

It's not his read. It's his logic, which would be just as true if he was alive. Or even if he was scum. Logic is logic.

Furthermore gonna use some "pre flip bs" logic and say that giga is also trying to lynch scum today.

[JarJarDrinks]

Shadow, claim. ur p much @ L-1

[JarJarDrinks]

VOTE: blitz

[JarJarDrinks]

meh IDK. That night action is pretty terrible.

[JarJarDrinks]

Like that's the one result he can give the town right now that he knows wont be countered.

And why not check someone ur scumreading?

[JarJarDrinks]

Why not check giga (who he was scumreading) to see if he gets no-result?

[JarJarDrinks]

it would tell u if he was lying about being aesthetic

[JarJarDrinks]

oh thought u were responding to 2nd post

[JarJarDrinks]

Like that's the one result he can give the town right now that he knows wont be countered.

And why not check someone ur scumreading?

and what would that get me?
A goon will come as vanilla and town pr/scum pr will come as not vanilla. How does that help in anyway??

First it would narrow things down. There are presumably more vanilla+goon roles than there are PRs in the game so a non-vanilla result would mean there's a stronger chance that he is scum.

It also means that if he claims @ some point in the future, u could potentially counter him.

[JarJarDrinks]

I don't get what I would get investigating Giga like you are saying? It would just prove she is ascetic

How do you know that? Isn't there a chance Gig is lying?

[JarJarDrinks]

Did u just change the reason that you didn't investigate giga?

[JarJarDrinks]

I'd like giga to explain whatever he's been going on about.

[JarJarDrinks]

I also don't really buy the claim but I figure we can give it till tomorrow.

[JarJarDrinks]

I like how blitz doesn't show up until after the shadow wagon dissolves so he doesn't have to give his opinion on it.

[JarJarDrinks]

How do you know that? Isn't there a chance Gig is lying?

There is, but was inclined to believe it after Maria's flip.

Shadow, can you explain what exactly about Marias flip made you believe gigas aesthetic claim?

[JarJarDrinks]

he answered that already gerry

[JarJarDrinks]

How do you know that? Isn't there a chance Gig is lying?

There is, but was inclined to believe it after Maria's flip.

Shadow, can you explain what exactly about Marias flip made you believe gigas aesthetic claim?

Maria flipping town ofc, it is very ballsy play to claim being masons who are not your buddy and trying to protect them.
I mean it could have backfired so hard. Transcend claims to be masons with maria as scum. Town maria says he is lying. Transcend gets lynched. I don't see scum being so stupid.

Look how ridiculous this is. He was scumreading the trans/giga slot and then drops that scumread cause maria flips town and he believed that the only way trans could be scum is if him and maria were BOTH scum together.

Yet he never pushed for marias lynch, never scumread her, and had his vote on her counterwagon (where he voted WITH maria).

Tell me how that makes any sense?

[JarJarDrinks]

I don't understand why you are asking me silly question? I obviously had a bigger scum read on Gerry.

bigger than who?

[JarJarDrinks]

Like were u scumreading maria?

[JarJarDrinks]

Bigger than transcend

how does that have anything to do w/ what I said?

Were you scumreading maria?

[JarJarDrinks]

Yes, to an extent.

You never felt the need to mention this to anyone?

Or was this more strategic "lynchbaity play"?

[JarJarDrinks]

and "To an extent" is a bullshit answer. You would have had to be scumreading her just as hard as u were scumreading the trans/giga slot considering you felt that in order for trans to be scum, maria had to be also.

[JarJarDrinks]

Just reposting this total contradiction.

In the first post he says the reason he didn't investigate giga is because he doesn't believe the result would be alignment indicative.

In the second post he says that the reason is because he's now townreading Giga.

I don't get what I would get investigating Giga like you are saying? It would just prove she is ascetic, it wouldn't be alignment indicative.

Maria flipping town ofc, it is very ballsy play to claim being masons who are not your buddy and trying to protect them.I mean it could have backfired so hard. Transcend claims to be masons with maria as scum. Town maria says he is lying. Transcend gets lynched. I don't see scum being so stupid.

[JarJarDrinks]

So yeah, I'm pretty sure I still wanna lynch shadow, even w/ the claim.

But I wanna make sure people are onboard w/ that before I derail the blitz wagon.

[JarJarDrinks]

Only thing that makes me feel conflicted about the case vs. Shadow is that Elyse is literally the TOWNIEST option for a town!Vanilla cop to pick. Scum would rather investigate someone to learn something new about them, while the best use for a town vanilla cop is to confirm what's already known. So, there is 0 scum motivation to investigating Elyse. I'm not objecting to the belief it's a suboptimal investigation (Gerry imo would have been the best choice, especially bc Shadow was scumreading Gerry for softing Vig), but it's the last choice Mafia would make.

It being the towniest choice, however, doesn't mean it's true. But what compels scum!Shadow to lie about his target if it risks his credibility? We lost our tracker, and Tracker+Watcher is a very unlikely combination of PRs for town, so for now I'm going to believe his claim and target because lying to hurt your credibility doesn't seem logical. I still think that Tracker/VCop/Ascetic is lacking investigative power and something seems strange about the set-up, even if we have two investigative roles.

Let's not get caught up in the idea that sub-optimal play or being unable to keep facts straight makes someone confirmed scum and save Shadow for later. That's my 2 cents at the moment.

The Slayer's Gambit thing and the difference in Shadow's approach this game isn't making me feel super good about giving him a townread, so I'd rather look into, say, Kar-Keys or Blitz for today.

Confused on why you think that if Shadow is scum, he actually investigated Elyse. Why wouldn't he just lie?

[JarJarDrinks]

I didn't tunnel Maria. And I'm not tunneling Shadow either

[JarJarDrinks]

which leaves shadow/karnos/blitz as the scumteam

All people I'm willing to lynch today.

[JarJarDrinks]

Jarjar, what about Gerry?

Thoughts are still the same:

Spoiler:

gerry

- townlean. I think the fake vig "claim" reads town to me. Scum don't like calling attention to themselves. Wish he'd give us more content but I don't see anything to scumread him for

And regardless, there's no chance I'm lynching Gerry while shadow is still such a strong scumread.

[JarJarDrinks]

What would you have claimed if ur scum?

[JarJarDrinks]

Like what a ridiculous argument. W/ no tracker in the game, ur gonna try to tell us that as scum, you would never lie about who you targeted?

[JarJarDrinks]

Why the hell would I claim a vanilla cop then? Why not claim a cop and say that I have a town result on whoever the fuck I want because I would know everyone's alignment.

Well Vanilla cop doesn't confirm anyone as town.

If u claim cop then you'd have to tell us that Gerry is town (I'm assuming he's town if ur scum) and then u couldn't park ur vote there like ur doing right now.

[JarJarDrinks]

Hey shadow, put blitz at l-1 pls

popcorn.gif

[JarJarDrinks]

I like my vote but I think we're going a little fast. That could just be me getting used to the shorter deadlines though.

Shadow, I'm really liking Jarjar for town. Why are you scumreading him?

Because of his reaction to my claim and post that.
First thing he did was that he voted someone else so I think he obviously believed what I said. Scum would want to get off a T pr wagon asap.

Then

he probably realised it would look bad

and started doubting my claim again. I can't quite wrap my head around that.

Then he wants town consensus whether he should be voting me again or not. Like he's paranoid about doing that and wondering how it would look. Scared of derailing the blitz wagon sounds like bs. We weren't 24 hours from deadline or something.

Why would it look bad?

[JarJarDrinks]

Shadow isn't exactly supporting it. He was coerced into giving intent.

[JarJarDrinks]

What do you mean "coerced"? If you think Kraska suggesting Shadow to do that is scummy, why are you supporting the wagon...?

Maybe coerced isn't the right word.

I don't @ all think that Kraska telling shadow to vote blitz is scummy. My point is that Shadow doesn't want to vote for blitz (his scumbuddy) but doesn't really have much of a choice @ this point.

If blitz flips scum then shadow gets zero towncred for it.

[JarJarDrinks]

I like my vote but I think we're going a little fast. That could just be me getting used to the shorter deadlines though.

Shadow, I'm really liking Jarjar for town. Why are you scumreading him?

Because of his reaction to my claim and post that.
First thing he did was that he voted someone else so I think he obviously believed what I said. Scum would want to get off a T pr wagon asap.

Then

he probably realised it would look bad

and started doubting my claim again. I can't quite wrap my head around that.

Then he wants town consensus whether he should be voting me again or not. Like he's paranoid about doing that and wondering how it would look. Scared of derailing the blitz wagon sounds like bs. We weren't 24 hours from deadline or something.

Why would it look bad?

[JarJarDrinks]

What happened to ur "intent" shadow?

[JarJarDrinks]

what scumteam with me in it kills IaI?

This is a scummy argument.

First off, this is totally wifom. You could have made the kill specifically to make urself look less scummy. And you're bringing it up because nobody else did and you want the cred for it.

Second, IAI flipped PR. Scum may have been PR hunting.

[JarJarDrinks]

I'm the doctor. GG town we lost.

I don't really feel like this is a town reaction.

agree

[JarJarDrinks]

And lets just ignore the scum motivation in wanting a player dead that they can't kill at night.

Unless I'm misunderstanding the role, he can be killed, just cant be targeted by PRs.

[JarJarDrinks]

JarJar, do you still townread Gerry? Let's talk a bit more about that read.

It's hard for me not to townread everyone that isn't shadow/blitz/karnos when them 3 as a scumteam makes so much sense.

Other than that and what I posted about his "fakeclaim" reading town, I have no other reason to townread him and if I'm proved wrong about any of my scumreads, I'll reevaluate. But there's no chance I vote outside of those 3 today.

[JarJarDrinks]

Did you miss the part were he retracted his claim after being threatened with blacklisting? Why would scumtranscend who's using this gambit to his win condition be afraid of that

Well the answer to that is pretty clear: He was afraid that his scum partner was gonna get lynched and he knew that retracting the mason claim would likely get maria lynched (which it did).

The people likely to get lynched at that time were YOU or Elyse. So if giga is scum then then one of U 2 are likely his scumbuddy.

This theory has been in the back of my mind in case I'm completely off on my shadow/blitz/karnos scumteam theory. But not worth pursuing until I see some reason to think my stronger reads are wrong.

[JarJarDrinks]

So check this out.

I'm also going to agree with Elyse that not outting your doc target is kinda awful. Like, if you were a town doc

(and you obviously didn't block a kill)

scum already know the alignments of everyone her (barring Traitor or SK) so I don't really see a reason you shouldn't.

I actually think I did. Of course, I cannot prove that without having a vig step forward.

I think IaI was a big shot.

(obvious typo. he meant "vig")

IAI does not make sense as a scum kill.

So he tells us that believes that he blocked the scums attack and IAI was a vig shot.


Yet moments earlier he says:

Why should I? Outing who I protected just gives scum information about who I protect.

It's customary if that info helps town. Here, it doesn't. I don't care what it seems like. If town doesn't learn to play smart, we don't deserve to win.

He doesn't want to tell us who he protected because he doesn't want to give scum that information.


So maybe he can explain why scum doesn't know who they shot at?

[JarJarDrinks]

I like how blitz doesn't show up until after the shadow wagon dissolves so he doesn't have to give his opinion on it.

Reposting because blitz STILL hasn't given us a single opinion about what he thinks of shadow.

[JarJarDrinks]

Which is pretty weird since you would think that he'd doubt a PR claim since he believes the town already has a tracker, a doc, and a vig.

[JarJarDrinks]

@Shadow, any thoughts on what I posted about blitz?

Do you think that him saying that he doesn't want to reveal his target because it would help scum makes any sense if he believes that he blocked scums attack?

[JarJarDrinks]

Blitz, u said that info wont help town. Well if u really are a doc that truly believes he blocked scums attack and are about to get lynched, u don't think that information would be hugely beneficial?

Like ud be giving us practically confirmed town.

[JarJarDrinks]

Do you think that him saying that he doesn't want to reveal his target because it would help scum makes any sense if he believes that he blocked scums attack?

Yeah, if he thinks that he prevented a mafia kill, the person they protected is conf town.
I don't see how town benefits from revealing who that person is as of now.

Uhh, He's at L-1. he could get hammered @ any moment.

[JarJarDrinks]

I'm making a reasonable assumption that any townie won't be dumb enough to end the day prematurely.

How is it prematurely? We've voted him to L-1, he's claimed, there's been a ton of discussion about it. YOU even posted intent @ 1 point.

While scum can feel free to hammer, we are auto lynching them tomorrow.

yeah bro, pretty sure ur in no position to make that threat.

Anyone that wants to hammer this, please do so.

[JarJarDrinks]

where is everyone?

[JarJarDrinks]

Transcend is the only one 100% confirmed to be lying about a claim

Well not the ONLY one. Remember maria?

[JarJarDrinks]

That's

L-2

for giga btw.

Looks like today is gonna be giga vs Blitz.

@Thor and Shadow, pick a horse.

[JarJarDrinks]

@Shadow: any particular reason why you voted Karnos over Giga?

He can't vote Giga since he's pretending that marias flip changed his mind and he now thinks giga is town.