Mini Normal 1775 END!

[Expedience]

/confirm

[Expedience]

VOTE: Sakura Hana

[Expedience]

Funny to see naked votes from the person that hates naked votes and gut reads.

These posts made me thing that you were scum:

All these people sheeping me are giving me the chills however...

P-Edit:

Unvote

Ok there's something very wrong with my wagon getting traction so easily.

Your explanation for your unvote is not believable to me.

It seems like you're just turning the tables on everyone who agreed with your (bad) accusation of knightmare, so that you always remain on top.

I also think that 28 is reachy. So if you show me that you were doing RVS things in 28, I'll unvote you.

[Expedience]

Funny to see naked votes from the person that hates naked votes and gut reads.

These posts made me think that you were scum:

All these people sheeping me are giving me the chills however...

P-Edit:

Unvote

Ok there's something very wrong with my wagon getting traction so easily.

Your explanation for your unvote is not believable to me.

It seems like you're just turning the tables on everyone who agreed with your (bad) accusation of knightmare, so that you always remain on top.

I also think that 28 is reachy. So if you show me that you were doing RVS things in 28, I'll unvote you.

fixed

[Expedience]

K, read (well, skimmed) everything, and every part of my gut and brain is screaming that knight is town. I will defend him not to the death, but at least to the slight inconvenience!

He should really stop posting huge walls trying to defend himself though.

Oh hey knight is scum. Good find, whoever started this. Early wagons rule. BLOOD!

VOTE: knight

I do not believe this is alignment indicative.

Hey, same.

[Expedience]

@Expedience/Goodwill - is your post about Lowell a meta thing or are you speaking generally?

Look at 81 again and let me know what you think.

I honestly haven't read some of the pages yet, so I was just thinking about that post in isolation. I still think that his confident tone shown in those posts is not alignment indicative.

Either he's really confident town, or he's pretending to be really confident town as scum. And I'm not really sure which at this point.

[Expedience]

@GoodLord: What you said in 127 is false. The only thing that could be more or less "attacking" would be my post on: 98 which was something i forgot to address earlier so i brought it later.

It's not so much attacking as "shade throwing", which is even worse imo.

[Expedience]

Dang, I was hoping to find some sort of issue with Expedience's reasoning, and the part that isn't true is about the sincerity of those posts, yet i can't seem to find a way to prove that, or probably im just too tired.

What's this supposed to mean?

You don't really think knightmare is scum, but you think I wouldn't believe you if you just told the truth?

[Expedience]

What do you think of Sakura, Lowell? You're not weirded out at all by her backing off of knightmare?

[Expedience]

So, reads. I was town reading Sakura since the point where she made 39, which IMO is town paranoia.

Is that because you know she's town? I mean, sure, it could be "town paranoia". But I see it as scummy because of how sudden the change was. If someone votes someone I'm scumreading, I tend to trust them, not bail out like two posts later.

I do not really like this wagon on Lowell. I think Expedience raises a good point in his 139, and I think that it looks more like confident town. Unfortunately I do not really like the way Expedience hedges around it, rather than committing to a firm stance.

I wasn't "hedging" anything, I firmly and townly stated that Lowell's post was not alignment indicative.

124 about Sakura was also a bit of a reach in my opinion. Expedience, why do you think Sakura would have any reason to "turn the tables" when she was not being scum read at that point in the game? Her wagon did not come until later IIRC and the only one who was suspicious of her was knightmare himself.

So that she gets read as town, I dunno. Maybe that wasn't the best choice of phrase.

[Expedience]

What do you think Lowell, does Sakaniyodesu think that your confidence is town because he knows that you're town?

The way I see it, one of you is probably scum but not the other.

[Expedience]

I find it fake how Sayaka Maizono townreads knightmare yet also townreads Lowell for pushing on knightmare so confidently.

[Expedience]

VOTE: Sayaka Maizono

Sayaka Maizono, do you even have any scumreads now that you retracted your one on knightmare? Because you're still voting him.

[Expedience]

Oh man.

Boon is scum, lowell is prob scum and madonna is prob scum too. Although madonna is a slight read.

Can we just decide on one of these. I would go for boon though.

Sounds pseudo-Lowell.

[Expedience]

I get what you're saying, Garmr. Maybe Sakura did unvote because she genuinely thought that the wagon was moving too fast and so one of the people voting had to be scum wanting a quicklynch, or some such nonsense. I think I have a bias against people I disagree with.

I haven't really had any other problems with what she's posted so I'll leave that behind for now.

[Expedience]

@knight, no, you're still scum, don't worry. but people have been persuaded by the brute force of the boringness of your arguments, so I'm moving to an easier, hopefully more hilarious, target.

Convince us that he's scum! No reason to give up just because others disagree with you, right?

[Expedience]

If he's really at L-1, I suggest one of you idiots unvote or Boon may hammer.

[Expedience]

Don't hammer?

[Expedience]

Goodlordwill and I are both town.

[Expedience]

Boon has stated that he "has bad feelings" about this "easy lynch". If he hammers then he's flagrantly full of shit.

As for me, I think it's the right lynch. I'm not leaving just because boon or someone else may randomly do something stupid.

You lose nothing from unvoting, but it minimizes risk.

[Expedience]

Goodlordwill and I are both town.

Don't see goodlordwill as town tbh will you elaborate for me.

I agree with just about everything he's posted so far. We're in sync, for some reason, so I think we have the same alignment.

[Expedience]

If he's really at L-1, I suggest one of you idiots unvote or Boon may hammer.

I mean, I've already stated why this is crap.

Misplaced your rhetoric?

Expidence is leaning scum for me. If Lowell does end up flipping scum, might be worth looking into as a last resort bus/trying to derail it a little. TownLowell I'd probably start town reading Exp from that, though.

I'm still not sure about Lowell, so I don't want to move to night yet.

[Expedience]

Goodlordwill and I are both town.

Don't see goodlordwill as town tbh will you elaborate for me.

I agree with just about everything he's posted so far. We're in sync, for some reason, so I think we have the same alignment.

I mean, Tex, Lowell, and I all had pretty similar reads, I feel. That logic would make us all town.

Well yeah, but are you ≈in sync≈?

Granted, you didn't say it makes you both town, it would make you same alignment. Foreshadowing scum? Who knows.

But I'm town though.

[Expedience]

You do realize that we have currently used 2.5 days out of the 14 that we have available?

I'm not usually one to highly value day time, but this is fucking ridiculous.

I don't have strong feelings about Lowell being scum, in general I'm lost and really would like to use more of the time.

[Expedience]

1) would you be willing to policy lynch a dumb hammer?

Are you smart enough to realize that this is literally you right now?

[Expedience]

If people are going to be so fervent in their idea that Lowell is scum, I would like a hammer to help us be clear where players want to stand.

So Madonna, do you actually have a fervent belief that Lowell is scum?

[Expedience]

Because "oh we should quickhammer this guy because other people are scumreading him" is absolutely terrible.

[Expedience]

VOTE: Madonna

To be clear, I do not care for this wagon

Are you townreading Lowell? I cannot think of any town reason why you would try to quickhammer a townread.

you guys

You mean the town?

[Expedience]

I can understand tunneling, Sayana. I don't think that's the case here.

My point is that I think Lowell is

twisting things to make me look scummy

and that his perspective is not genuine.

Again, look at post 84 again I think it's pretty obvious he is not being objective.

I am quoting you, knightmare, but I think others have expressed this sentiment about Lowell as well, and this needs addressing. 84 is a great post. 85 and 89 are great follow-ups. There is nothing indicative of a scum mindset in these posts. 57 is a little eh, but I agree that because of knightmare's play, it is plenty fine.

In terms of content to action ratios, Lowell is doing a whole lot better than most. His reasoning has been simple and clean, and I like that.

It looks like you're townreading him here.

If you already think he's town, what is there to learn from his lynch?

[Expedience]

@Expedience - having 14 days for DL doesn't mean that you need to use all of them. This is the only site I have ever played at where phases are this long. I am used to 72h Days at the longest with some games as short as 48/24 complete phases. 14 days is the ridiculous measure. We have generated a lot of content - what do you need to continue twiddling our thumbs for? The only concrete information we gain is through alignment reveals anyway.

@Boon - I still want to lynch Lowell because I still don't believe he is town and I don't think I can effectively clear him through his play either. I'm not going to spook myself off the wagon because Madonna is being sketchy around it. If anything they are just outing themselves more.

So we can find more scum, then if you're wrong about Lowell (which you very well could be), we're not stuck at the start of d2 with dead town members and almost no (or even negative) information.

[Expedience]

@knight - Okay, I get you want Lowell lynched today. I don't. So I'll contribute to a different wagon.

@exp - I disagree with your negative info. There will be more info regardless. To be honest, Lowell at this point is a good information lynch regardless of alignment.

If Lowell is town it means ______
If Lowell is scum it means _______

Any theories? There have been interactions but which strike you as alignment indicative and why?

If Lowell is town I would think Madonna and Sakaya are slightly more likely to be scum.
If Lowell is scum I would think Madonna is slightly more likely to be scum.

It's really not that explicit though and that's why I think pre-flip associatives and "information lynches" are bad. I don't like framing it so that lynching someone tells us more about another person, because it honestly doesn't tell us very much at all.

I think Madonna's stances could make sense as bussing because of how Lowell was about to be lynched, so she would look good immediately after for lynching someone who flipped scum.

[Expedience]

So are we lynching Lowell or not, people? Not saying I called it, but there you go.

Called what?

Are you townreading Lowell?

Answer these questions please because you're not taking opposition to any of this but it's not really clear?

[Expedience]

Madonna's bugging me a lot right now.
Votes Lowell and expects him to be hammered within 1 hour?
And where did Madonna's constant defense of Lowell even go? Where and Why did that 180 come from?

There has been 200+ posts since I last argued anything in defense of Lowell. My opinion could have changed since then, surely.

Strange how any defense somehow translates to others as "strong townread" and that it somehow must be permanent.

So you're scumreading him now, is that what you're saying or it's just something that could've happened? Really awkward and scummy way to frame that.

If so, what changed your opinion of him?

[Expedience]

@lowell: Here's one from me. Was your vote on me serious or just joke/reaction testing? That's an easy question with an easy answer.

Are you kidding? It's page 14. My vote is legit. Your playstyle is a put-on and you're scum.

Fucking hell, this is dumb shit

from mhsmith0

. Even joke/reaction votes are fucking votes. They may still exert the same pressure because all votes do the same fucking thing. Unless you fucking preface them with "for reaction purposes only" and can guess the voter will retract.

I know right, slight theory nitpickings always put me into a blind rage too.

[Expedience]

@Madonna: OK.. I'll bite. It's not like you need to read anyone's case though. All you need to do is ISO Lowell himself (just 19 posts in total, btw):

Note: I'm puling some excerpts, but linking each and every post so you can view in full.

1- 17 RSV
2- 57 Votes knight for... ????
3- 84 Reasoning for voting knight is basically "this guy is scum. I'm a gut player" while stating "not sure how, or why, this wagon started. But don't care."

NOTE: This came as a 5th vote on knight. Is it serious? Is it for a reaction? Is it for lolz?? Let's see:

4- 85 "Relax, kill, repeat."?? Is this how you play this game?
5- 89 "Let's do less thinking and more playing with our hearts... and guts.... kill knight."?? Less thinking?? Play with hearts and guts?? Like how you play.. roulette?
6- 90 Doesn't even count
7- 144 Accusing knight of being OMGUSy when knight obviously voted for a reason. Out of SIX people who voted knight up to that point (counting Sakura who had unvoted) knight ONLY voted Lowell. How's that OMGUSy?
8- 175 Not even sure who's that directed at.
9- 276 Knight isn't happening, so let's switch to smith for some reason. Also boon is town "because of his obnoxious multi-posts". (Now that's how you scum hunt alright :P )
10- 278 "Stop asking questions: vote mhsmith." (Now that's some convincing reason for someone to sheep them)
11- 283 "And wagons on newbs are fun, anyway." + "so I'm moving to an easier, hopefully more hilarious, target."
12- 316 Please do read this one. WHAT point? And how is Expedience giving him town vibes? (Expedience <<< @ Smith). Then 3 scum reads who are all strong town?
13- 318 No comment.
14- 320 Ignoring questions directed at him.
15- 327 Less than optimal response.
16- 354 Now accusing SMITH of being OMGUSy, when -in fact- smith had yet t vote him. Also where is this said "self-preservation" when smith is actually throwing everything including the kitchen sink into the game? The guy is relentless, doesn't hold back, isn't afraid of engaging others for whatever.
17- 358 Finally responds to a question. Not much of an explanation, but a response none-the-less.
18- 360 FIVE PEOPLE voting him and "no one believes I'm scum, they just think "meh, he's sort of annoying, and better him than me... sure I can live with that.""
19- 380 Votes Texcat, the reason being....???

So, you see.. out of 19 posts only one contained a glimpse of an intent to be playing the game. Otherwise, it's mudding, flirting, fluffing, being all sorts of anything but a scum hunter.

Please tell me what YOU saw in this ISO that you liked (apart from being funny at times)?

Hi, mobile posting. The issue with a critique of Lowell's ISO is that it is not a case brought by our fair voters. It can be easy justification at this point when playing to a biased crowd.

I may try to get another mobile post in later today, but I will be busy enough until my Sunday afternoon to do more than this Infuriating thing:

UNVOTE: Lowell

I had hoped to call a bluff, but people seem intent on following through with this nonsense. I do not have time in the day to manage this.

I do not think I can respond point by point with quotes on this device, but I will reread and try to convey the general idea, Almost50.

You need to explain this "bluff" in explicit terms of what you intended to achieve and how, because this hand-waving makes me think you're lying.

[Expedience]

I am OK with both madonna or lowell lynch today. At the moment the vote is on Lowell, but if you decide I am ok with Madonna. She is objectively scummy.

You should vote Madonna because I'm in a neighborhood with her and she scumslipped, I'm also a daycop and scum with her.

[Expedience]

You can read, yes?

[Expedience]

My post should be taken about as seriously as Madonna being town, that is to say it is a joke.

[Expedience]

Voting Madonna isn't a joke though, you should still do that.

[Expedience]

I'll be V/LA until Monday

I am not caught up since my last post and I see Madonna is at L-1? If for whatever reason you all decide to end day before I come back I will catch up overnight.

NOTED

I think we should not end the day before Sayaka returns.

Also "you all", mmm.

[Expedience]

Still prefer lowell lynch to a madonna lynch but oh well.

Just because of ego or is there more to this? You've mentioned this multiple times but seem reasonably convinced that both are scum.

[Expedience]

VOTE: Sakura Hana

[Expedience]

Ok so first things first.

1) Knowing now that Madonna's town, i'm mostly gonna be looking at the other ppl voting that wagon.

If you knew that Madonna was town, why did you vote her?

2) Day ended within 2-3 days (more or less the way Lowell wanted), I'm interested in seeing what Lowell supposedly manages to get from short days, enough to want to rush Day 1 before.

You put both Lowell and Madonna to L-1 and so have no right to say this.

[Expedience]

2) Day ended within 2-3 days (more or less the way Lowell wanted), I'm interested in seeing what Lowell supposedly manages to get from short days, enough to want to rush Day 1 before.

You put both Lowell and Madonna to L-1 and so have no right to say this.

Okay, you didn't, but you basically did.

Are you going to vote texcat any time soon or just dance around a bit more?

[Expedience]

If you knew that Madonna was town, why did you vote her?

If you're going to misread my words, then at least do it with something that isn't glaringly obvious that is not what i said.
Snarkyness aside, you seem to have missed something from the post you quoted:

1) Knowing

now

that Madonna's town, i'm mostly gonna be looking at the other ppl voting that wagon.

Okay, you didn't, but you basically did.

You put both Lowell and Madonna to L-1 and so have no right to say this.

Okay, you didn't, but you basically did.

Uh what?

Well, you put Madonna to L-2, which is basically the same thing. You seemed passively and awkwardly a part of the crowd cheering for the blood of a quicklynch.

Are you going to vote texcat any time soon or just dance around a bit more?

I'm not going to vote texcat anytime soon, first of all im not entirely sure she's scum, which is why im asking questions tyvm, so im going to dance around more.

So who are you going to vote any time soon? Me? Lowell? Garmr????

[Expedience]

Here's what I think Sakura's mindset is.

She pushes knighmare, and sees other people following her vote. Then she unvotes quickly and throws shade on the wagon because of her crippling fear of being scumread for being the main proponent of a wagon that flips town. The justification that she gives for this is that she felt uneasy about the wagon.

Then when Lowell and Madonna get run up, she nearly completes the wagons with no unease expressed towards their speed. There were a ton of votes that I think town!Sakura from what I've seen here would've (kinda stupidly) called scummy, but I think that she deemed it best to just let the town lynch Madonna.

1) Knowing now that Madonna's town, i'm mostly gonna be looking at the other ppl voting that wagon.

This post cements this in my mind, since I believe she worries that the town would say things like this about her if knightmare was lynched and flipped town. Also it's a really scummy post in its own right.

Maybe it's not all as explicit, conscious, or poorly explained as I've made it sound, but that's what I'm seeing.

[Expedience]

So who are you going to vote any time soon? Me? Lowell? Garmr????

Why do i have to vote SOMEONE sometime soon? Why do I have to play the way you want me to play?

Because otherwise other people will vote you, maybe.

[Expedience]

Okay, you didn't, but you basically did.

So you're going to keep pushing something that is false?

Just vote me lol it will be hilarious.

[Expedience]

@chilledtea
Why did you change your vote on texcat to lowell? You are building a case on Texcat (post 629) and then you suddenly shifted to lowell. Why is lowell scummy to you and why did you drop your case on tex and do nothing to push lowell after dropping it?

Do you think Lowell is scum?

[Expedience]

Ok so first things first.

1) Knowing now that Madonna's town, i'm mostly gonna be looking at the other ppl voting that wagon.

If you knew that Madonna was town, why did you vote her?

2) Day ended within 2-3 days (more or less the way Lowell wanted), I'm interested in seeing what Lowell supposedly manages to get from short days, enough to want to rush Day 1 before.

You put both Lowell and Madonna to L-1 and so have no right to say this.

Making up reasons to make Sakura look bad???

1- "Knowing NOW" =/= knew from back then. Sakura made it clear she thought one of them was scum BEFORE the flip. She says she knows now AFTER the flip that Madonna was town.

2- She didn't put them BOTH @L-1. I do realize you corrected this in the following post, but then you go "but you basically did". Even worse, you're pushing her to vote texcat instead, when she clearly thinks LOWELL is the scum.

Here's what I'm getting: YOU are trying your best to deter a Lowell lynch bt creating a wagon on just about anyone else. You're scum. Lowell is scum & Boon is scum. I just want to start with Lowell.

VOTE: Lowell

I'm just having a bit of fun at the scum's expense, relax.

I mean, yeah, okay. As town, I generally try to lynch my scumreads, of which Lowell is not one.

I think Lowell and Boon are both town.

I could accuse you of trying to deter a Sakura lynch by creating a wagon on Lowell while accusing Boon and I. I think you're town, though.

[Expedience]

BTW, even is she did all what you say, you yourself stated it was "what Lowell wanted", yet you would vote anyone BUT Lowell. How consistent are you with your own logic?

I don't understand?

[Expedience]

@chilledtea
Why did you change your vote on texcat to lowell? You are building a case on Texcat (post 629) and then you suddenly shifted to lowell. Why is lowell scummy to you and why did you drop your case on tex and do nothing to push lowell after dropping it?

Do you think Lowell is scum?

I been thinking it over and I'm not really to sure anymore.

Is it because of him softclaiming?

Still prefer lowell lynch to a madonna lynch but oh well.

You seemed like you wanted to lynch Lowell over Madonna yesterday, I expected you to push him today.

[Expedience]

VOTE: Garmr

I actually read the posts and it's just stuff like "if u were town u wld be more openminded!! where is town motivation??", and it's reachy and dumb.

I felt like Garmr was scum during n1 after Madonna was lynched from the way he was saying he would rather lynch Lowell based on not much, yet he still supported lynching Madonna (since it occured to me that both were probably town). And now like, I dunno, he sees an easier target (chilledtea) and suddenly drops his scumread on Lowell (who he had been tunneling all game)? To be completely fair I could see this coming from town, but it still makes me suspect him.

In 292 he reads Sakura, knightmare and I all as town and I remember it throwing me off a bit, but I think it should've been something that made me look more intently at him. I read the post again and he calls me town while saying that my push on Sakura is bad, even the way that he says it sounds really concilatory.

[Expedience]

The ammount of possible night killing PRs doesnt even ammount only to roleblcoks and doctors, there's also bulletproof.
Why were you even assuming roleblock is the only possibility?

It's clearly because he's scum.

[Expedience]

@chilledtea
Why did you change your vote on texcat to lowell? You are building a case on Texcat (post 629) and then you suddenly shifted to lowell. Why is lowell scummy to you and why did you drop your case on tex and do nothing to push lowell after dropping it?

Do you think Lowell is scum?

I been thinking it over and I'm not really to sure anymore.

Is it because of him softclaiming?

Still prefer lowell lynch to a madonna lynch but oh well.

You seemed like you wanted to lynch Lowell over Madonna yesterday, I expected you to push him today.

I admit the soft claim is a part of it. Just chilled teas interactions with lowell kind of urk me as well. I'm trying to sort out things in my head.

Maybe I'm going a bit over the top here, but how is that an admission?

So basically because you think chilledtea is scummier, I guess.

[Expedience]

@chilledtea
Why did you change your vote on texcat to lowell? You are building a case on Texcat (post 629) and then you suddenly shifted to lowell. Why is lowell scummy to you and why did you drop your case on tex and do nothing to push lowell after dropping it?

All of this happened a few hours ago.

The vote change was mostly because texcat was on L-4 at the time and seemed intent on defending herself. Lowell was nowhere to be seen. So I voted lowell. I mean I indicate as such by calling it vote parking.

I realize that Garmr already pursued this, but this post just stands out to me as scum yelling, "I'm just going for an easy lynch, I don't care who actually gets the rope."

As to Lowell's theory, it is just too far-fetched to be believable.
First he theorizes that town has a roleblocker. I find this thin to begin with. It's certainly possible that town has a roleblocker, but this is a role that I associate more with scum than with town.
Then he theorizes that I was roleblocked. Out of all the people in this game, I'm not sure why I would be the choice for a town roleblock.
AND that my being roleblocked was the reason for no NK.
He totally ignores the more likely possibility that town has a doc or a jailkeeper to account for the lack of NK. And why propose such a wacky theory? Is he fishing for the doc or jailkeeper to claim?

No offense intended, this is bad and all, but last time I played with texcat she said similar things as town and got lynched d1.

[Expedience]

@chilledtea
Why did you change your vote on texcat to lowell? You are building a case on Texcat (post 629) and then you suddenly shifted to lowell. Why is lowell scummy to you and why did you drop your case on tex and do nothing to push lowell after dropping it?

All of this happened a few hours ago.

The vote change was mostly because texcat was on L-4 at the time and seemed intent on defending herself. Lowell was nowhere to be seen. So I voted lowell. I mean I indicate as such by calling it vote parking.

I realize that Garmr already pursued this, but this post just stands out to me as scum yelling, "I'm just going for an easy lynch, I don't care who actually gets the rope."

As to Lowell's theory, it is just too far-fetched to be believable.
First he theorizes that town has a roleblocker. I find this thin to begin with. It's certainly possible that town has a roleblocker, but this is a role that I associate more with scum than with town.
Then he theorizes that I was roleblocked. Out of all the people in this game, I'm not sure why I would be the choice for a town roleblock.
AND that my being roleblocked was the reason for no NK.
He totally ignores the more likely possibility that town has a doc or a jailkeeper to account for the lack of NK. And why propose such a wacky theory? Is he fishing for the doc or jailkeeper to claim?

No offense intended, this is bad and all, but last time I played with texcat she said similar things as town and got lynched d1.

Actually I take this back, I went and checked to discover that she sounded more reasonable than I remembered.

I'm scumreading texcat a bit, but she isn't a priority lynch.

[Expedience]

VOTE: Garmr

I actually read the posts and it's just stuff like "if u were town u wld be more openminded!! where is town motivation??", and it's reachy and dumb.

I felt like Garmr was scum during n1 after Madonna was lynched from the way he was saying he would rather lynch Lowell based on not much, yet he still supported lynching Madonna (since it occured to me that both were probably town). And now like, I dunno, he sees an easier target (chilledtea) and suddenly drops his scumread on Lowell (who he had been tunneling all game)? To be completely fair I could see this coming from town, but it still makes me suspect him.

In 292 he reads Sakura, knightmare and I all as town and I remember it throwing me off a bit, but I think it should've been something that made me look more intently at him. I read the post again and he calls me town while saying that my push on Sakura is bad, even the way that he says it sounds really concilatory.

So can you actually make a point as to how I am scum?

Disagreeing with a town read isn't scummy I do think your points on sakura were null and her overall behaviour reminded me of town at best you even ended up agreeing with me so wtf are you saying now you should have enough experience to know something so basic?

I think you were trying to manipulate me.

And now like, I dunno, he sees an easier target (chilledtea) and suddenly drops his scumread on Lowell (who he had been tunneling all game)? To be completely fair I could see this coming from town, but it still makes me suspect him.

Can you tell me how chilled is a easier target than lowell when lowell had the biggest wagon on him and no one besides me is pushing chilled? Also saying that you can see it coming from town kinda negates any point you made using that line of reasoning.

If you were scum, you would think it was because Lowell was softing a power role, or because the wagon on him was dying.

Town can claim scum, but it's something more likely to come from scum.

The Madonna reasoning is meh as it doesn't point to me being scum all it was was me trying to push the lowell wagon more at the time because I thought lowell was more scummy than madonna. You also thought both were scummy and so did many other people and also didn't other people stay on the lowell wagon as well?

Well, you stood out to me. It was as if you'd mhch rather lynch Lowell when you were claiming to only be slightly more sure that Lowell was scum.

I don't see any valid point presented as to why I would be scum.

That's okay, I'm not asking you to vote yourself.

[Expedience]

I agree with Lowell about not seeing the link within Garmr and Texcat. Seems like a stretch from scum. I want to town read chilled, but I may be wrong about that. I've been thinking texcat is a scumfuck for a long time, especially right before Madonna got lynched, and Garmr I always think is scummy when he speaks. All this being said texcat should be lynched, haha. I want to figure out chilled and solidify what I feel on Garmr, and I think Tex is scum! Tex flipping scum, I would no longer think chilled is! Although, I just thought about a potential chilled/Garmr scum team...care of them if they are doing some kind of scum theater. Chilled pushing hard on Garmr yet not voting him is super suspish. Super suspish indeed.

VOTE: texcat

That's 4.

I am ready to vote for garmr as well. But you know, that would be "jumping wagons".

No but seriously, I am ok with Garmr lynch today if people are interested.

Yeah, do it!

[Expedience]

The ammount of possible night killing PRs doesnt even ammount only to roleblcoks and doctors, there's also bulletproof.
Why were you even assuming roleblock is the only possibility?

It's clearly because he's scum.

Yet, you're not voting him.

(CAN'T WAKE UP).png

[Expedience]

mhsmith0, I didn't really mean it like that and I don't think Sakura was afraid of a fast lynch. I just think that the way she approached the wagon was unnatural and forced. I was trying to make it into a story so people would listen to me (since people like stories), but it didn't work. Since people can easily disagree with "this sounds bad".

[Expedience]

I agree with Lowell about not seeing the link within Garmr and Texcat. Seems like a stretch from scum. I want to town read chilled, but I may be wrong about that. I've been thinking texcat is a scumfuck for a long time, especially right before Madonna got lynched, and Garmr I always think is scummy when he speaks. All this being said texcat should be lynched, haha. I want to figure out chilled and solidify what I feel on Garmr, and I think Tex is scum! Tex flipping scum, I would no longer think chilled is! Although, I just thought about a potential chilled/Garmr scum team...care of them if they are doing some kind of scum theater. Chilled pushing hard on Garmr yet not voting him is super suspish. Super suspish indeed.

VOTE: texcat

That's 4.

Garmr, if you and texcat are scum together, bus your buddy now please. Texcat is scum, we can lynch you tomorrow instead of today, okay? See, if you think about it, I'm actually protecting you.

Chilled, if texcat flips town, I'm coming hard after you tomorrow.

First you say that you don't see a link, then you do? Or are you just trying to create one?

Do something that makes me think you're town, you're just sniping at people.

[Expedience]

mhsmith0, I didn't really mean it like that and I don't think Sakura was afraid of a fast lynch. I just think that the way she approached the wagon was unnatural and forced. I was trying to make it into a story so people would listen to me (since people like stories), but it didn't work. Since people can easily disagree with "this sounds bad".

Fair enough. However, I thought that your narrative explanation was interesting enough to explore. And I wanted to make a clear counter-argument to the implication you made that the interaction suggested that scum!Sakura points to town!Knight. Because if I'm reading connections at all, it reads suggesting of scum-scum as an association.

I think it's best to deal with that sort of thing after one of them flips. I think knightmare is town, and that's not because I think Sakura is scum trying to mislynch him.

[Expedience]

So you can demolish his arguments, leaving you the sole victor and proud owner of Zero Well-Reasoned Scumreads? You can argue any stance, I'm sure.

[Expedience]

Truly endless salt.

[Expedience]

More nominees please? At least Garmr & Expedience should be able to provide their respective top 3 scum reads.

quick summaries then.

Lets see

Chilled tea

- you can see in the past couple of pages why.

Boon

-I originally thought because he was more active than he usually is was a sign he was trying to improve his town game since he hardly gets voted as scum but these last couple of pages make me feel diffrent. I don't like how he was trying to threaten me by linking me to tex cat while buddying me at the same time.

Garmr, if you and texcat are scum together, bus your buddy now please. Texcat is scum, we can lynch you tomorrow instead of today, okay? See, if you think about it, I'm actually protecting you.

Chilled, if texcat flips town, I'm coming hard after you tomorrow.

Yeah, but Garmr is always like this too.

I really don't like being buddied.

Expedience

Once I started pushing chilled he basically chainsawing for chilled. Then when his reasoning were ever debunked or shown as null he starts having a hissy fit like he wants to keep his vote on me with no reasoning he wants a excuse to vote me.

So you can demolish his arguments, leaving you the sole victor and proud owner of Zero Well-Reasoned Scumreads? You can argue any stance, I'm sure.

Basically shows his salt and his incompetence at being unable to find a good reason to fake scum read me.

You don't really believe those players are scum for those reasons, that's ridiculous.

I don't think anyone reads your posts, but if they did, they'd see that 772 is entirely accurate.

Boonskiies was "threatening you", "linking you to texcat", and "buddying you", all at the same time? Those are some nice buzzwords, but that's obviously bullshit.

I'm not great at arguing and see that you know every trick in the book. By your own standards, there are zero "good reasons" to scumread you, because you can misrepresent and hand-wave in response to just about anything. Yet I still scumread you, even though you utterly obliterated every invalid character of every worthless post that I made, because I don't use those criteria.

Also, I was scumreading you since before the day started, but Sakura went V / LA or something.

[Expedience]

Sakura, when you return, please vote Garmr. Will you do that for me? Make sure not to make any wagon speed arguments, though!

Why you should vote Garmr
- The shitty misrepresentation of chilledtea, and he always argues with any criticism of him or his posts using poor and scummy rhetoric (these are like protective clauses so that he can't answer back)
- Opportunistic vote on me after I call him out as scum, and he always argues with any criticism of him or his posts using poor and scummy rhetoric
- His push on Lowell evaporates when d2 begins, even though he wanted to lynch Lowell over Madonna yesterday, and he always argues with any criticism of him or his posts using poor and scummy rhetoric
- On d1 weirdly he read you, knightmare, and I all as town even though we argued with no legitimate explanation why, and he always argues with any criticism of him or his posts using poor and scummy rhetoric
- I asked you to, and he always argues with any criticism of him or his posts using poor and scummy rhetoric

[Expedience]

Yes, precisely.

[Expedience]

Sakura, Sakaya, texcat.

[Expedience]

@exp: is the sayaka case basically 293-296 or has other stuff caught your eye since then?

I forgot why but Sakaya should post more. I remember thinking they were still scum when they posted at the start of d2 but I can't find many things to nitpick (likely because they aren't posting much). I find 603 scummy here somehow:

I usually attribute to this to scum, but practically everyone in this game is doing it except for like two or three people, so it can't be scum driven.

[Expedience]

It looks fake, I don't really think that he cares about people quickhammering and such. I think he went too far in attempts to justify it as not alignment indicative, so it didn't look like he was doubtcasting anyone. To make him look like just some town who's frustrated with the gamestate rather than scum trying to capitalize off it.

[Expedience]

Sakura

, when you return, please vote Garmr.

Will

you do that for me?

Make

sure not to make any wagon speed arguments, though!

Why you should vote Garmr
- The

shitty

misrepresentation of chilledtea, and he always argues with any criticism of him or his posts using poor and scummy rhetoric (these are like protective clauses so that he can't answer back)
-

Opportunistic

vote on me after I call him out as scum, and he always argues with any criticism of him or his posts using poor and scummy rhetoric
- His

push

on Lowell evaporates when d2 begins, even though he wanted to lynch Lowell over Madonna yesterday, and he always argues with any criticism of him or his posts using poor and scummy rhetoric
-

On

d1 weirdly he read you, knightmare, and I all as town even though we argued with no legitimate explanation why, and he always argues with any criticism of him or his posts using poor and scummy rhetoric
-

I

asked you to, and he always argues with any criticism of him or his posts using poor and scummy rhetoric

called it lol

[Expedience]

Here are the lists provided by others. Everyone has their own suspects:

Boons, Lowell & Expedience (Almost)
texcat, Lowell & chilledtea (smith)
Garmr, texcat & Lowell (chilledtea)
chilledtea, Lowell & Boons (texcat)
chilledtea, Boons & Expedience (Garmr)
Sakura, Sakaya, texcat (Expedience)
texcat, chilled, Sakura, Sakaya (Boons)

Yeh, I meant to include Garmr in the list but I thought you asked me for

other

scumreads, I'm voting him obviously.

[Expedience]

You know, I should've just said "inb4 sakura votes me" and prevented scum from trying to wagon me. It's a bit irritating since there's at least one town who's going to blindly sheep them.

[Expedience]

Garmr (1): Expedience

Here are the lists provided by others. Everyone has their own suspects:

<snip>
Sakura, Sakaya, texcat (Expedience)
<snip>

Uh what.
Garmr is nowhere in this list yet Exp is voting him?

SCUMTELL FOUND!

[Expedience]

Also if Expedience is scumreading texcat why isnt he helping lynch her? Considering he's been doing everything about getting me to vote.

Hmm no, from what i know of scum!Expedience he wouldn't hesistate to bus texcat if they were partners, texcat might be a mislynch
VOTE: Expedience

Faker than the backing down from knightmare, trying to give the appearance of confidence.

[Expedience]

Im doing so to show a more graphical way of explaining this:

considering you both have the exact same reads (minus chilled)

it doesnt change the fact that you got asked your top 3 scumreads, and your texcat and chilled reads are reverse of each other, so assuming chilled town, your reads would be the exact same, or are you saying that you lied and those arent your top 3 scumreads?

While we're at it, if you haven't been paying attention to Expedience, how do you know your reads arent the same strength?

Expedicen+Boons+(Lowell?)

I feel like it's gotten to the point where if people can't see that page 34 Sakura is utter bullshit, they should just stop playing.

[Expedience]

Garmr (1): Expedience

Here are the lists provided by others. Everyone has their own suspects:

<snip>
Sakura, Sakaya, texcat (Expedience)
<snip>

Uh what.
Garmr is nowhere in this list yet Exp is voting him?

SCUMTELL FOUND!

Can you clarify this one? What's the scum plan here? Or is an inadvertent slip?

I was mocking Sakura, how she was trying to make irrelevant things sound alignment indicative. There are multiple instances in which I have done this and people have missed the point, apparently unable to see how what I was quoting made no sense.

Expedicen+Boons+(Lowell?)

I feel like it's gotten to the point where if people can't see that page 34 Sakura is utter bullshit, they should just stop playing.

How reasonable do you think it is that she might be somewhat checked out of the game and not fully following everything post V/LA?

She was lining up a push on me for ages, she was always going to vote me when she got the chance. I don't think reading the thread has much to do with it, really. Her stances are still awful.

[Expedience]

Garmr and Sakura are scum chainsawing each other, Almost50 is town who doesn't know how to comprehend sarcasm. That's all there is to it.

[Expedience]

Expedience can you tell me exactly why you thought texcat was a good lynch candidate when earlier you said that she was a common mislynch candidate?

Both of those things can be true simultaneously, the way you've framed it makes it sound like a contradiction. I think texcat is somewhat scummy, and I'm aware of the fact that she can be mislynched easily. She's one of my weaker scumreads.

[Expedience]

3) Here:

Funny to see naked votes from the person that hates naked votes and gut reads.

These posts made me thing that you were scum:

All these people sheeping me are giving me the chills however...

P-Edit:

Unvote

Ok there's something very wrong with my wagon getting traction so easily.

Your explanation for your unvote is not believable to me.

It seems like you're just turning the tables on everyone who agreed with your (bad) accusation of knightmare, so that you always remain on top.

I also think that 28 is reachy. So if you show me that you were doing RVS things in 28, I'll unvote you.

Ok so first things first.

1) Knowing now that Madonna's town, i'm mostly gonna be looking at the other ppl voting that wagon.

If you knew that Madonna was town, why did you vote her?

2) Day ended within 2-3 days (more or less the way Lowell wanted), I'm interested in seeing what Lowell supposedly manages to get from short days, enough to want to rush Day 1 before.

You put both Lowell and Madonna to L-1 and so have no right to say this.

2) Day ended within 2-3 days (more or less the way Lowell wanted), I'm interested in seeing what Lowell supposedly manages to get from short days, enough to want to rush Day 1 before.

You put both Lowell and Madonna to L-1 and so have no right to say this.

Okay, you didn't, but you basically did.

Are you going to vote texcat any time soon or just dance around a bit more?

Not to mention he also tried to provoke me into OMGUSing here:

So who are you going to vote any time soon? Me? Lowell? Garmr????

Why do i have to vote SOMEONE sometime soon? Why do I have to play the way you want me to play?

Because otherwise other people will vote you, maybe.

Okay, but none of that is scummy.

[Expedience]

Your interracial

Interactions?

What does that mean, do you think Sakura is also scum?

[Expedience]

I mean, you can't really go back on the "lel lets hard townread and chainsaw defend each other" it now.

[Expedience]

I'm not seriously saying that you're scum for putting Madonna to L-1, and I never was. I was just trying to pressure you into actually doing something rather than all the posturing and not voting anyone.

[Expedience]

Interactions* autocorrect

Because I want to see if exp is still full bs when it comes to others aka not me

Do you think that Sakura is scum?

You could, yknow, read the thread if you wanted to see interactions between me and anyone else?

[Expedience]

I'm not seriously saying that you're scum for putting Madonna to L-1, and I never was. I was just trying to pressure you into actually doing something rather than all the posturing and not voting anyone.

So backtracking now?

Oh fuck off.

I'm just having a bit of fun at the scum's expense, relax.

[Expedience]

I mean, you can't really go back on the "lel lets hard townread and chainsaw defend each other" it now.

So you admit to chainsawing for chilled.

No, I obviously didn't mean that when I said

you

, you scumfuck. You and Sakura.

[Expedience]

You don't look relaxed

I was when I posted 687.

[Expedience]

That's still backtracking, your backtracking on saying your arguments at the start of the day were legit. I don't even understand why town would do what you're doing, and all those misprepresentations and taunting are seriously pissing me off.

Define buzzwords however you like. My posts weren't from a scum perspective.

[Expedience]

I mean, you can't really go back on the "lel lets hard townread and chainsaw defend each other" it now.

So you admit to chainsawing for chilled.

No, I obviously didn't mean that when I said

you

, you scumfuck. You and Sakura.

So you did do it but weren't referring to that?

It depends how you define that buzzphrase. I think you are scum and chilledtea is town. I thought that you were scum before you accused chilledtea. I thought that your accusation on chilledtea was awful and scummy.

[Expedience]

Or is it that after witnessing how I reacted on Blitz 21 you decided to just do the exact same thing again every game?
Do you hate me that much?
Is it your objetive to make me ragequit MS again?

How is that even relevant, I've never shown any animosity towards you. Replace out if you want, I don't care.

[Expedience]

@Sakura: those posts of expedience's that you listed don't read as misreps to me. I think it is a weak interpretation but those are different things. Could you explain further why you feel those were misreps?

124 He's creating scummy motivation where there's none.

"saying that im scum is a misrep because im town!!"

639 Not sure why you don't see this one, it's plain as day, my post refers to Madonna flipping town, not prior knowledge of the slot being town, yet Expedience decides to say it's the former, i mean come on, i don't get it. And i still don't understand what he meant by the second part since i never complained about the day ending early, I was asking Lowell a question.

Misrepresentation was intentional, obviously so, and intended to help me read you.

640 Says im "dancing around Madonna" when im clearly just asking questions to see what happened back on Day 1, yet another instance of him creating scummy motivation when there's none.

Madonna was already dead here. You were pushing texcat without voting her, and I wanted you to place a vote.

[Expedience]

Toasty: Why do we have opposite reads regarding Almost and Expedience, i don't understand why anyone's townreading what he's doing, i don't get why ppl don't see what i'm seeing, and the only person that's actually been seeing what im seeing is Almost50 as shown in 673 which is another reason for me to think he's town.

I think I mentioned this in my first post but pretty much everything Almost says I associate with key ways to give scum an advantage: town blocks, teaching, confusing "scum" with "playing in a way that I dislike," whining about how scummy everything is. I also dislike his reasoning for his scum-reads but he isn't someone I would want to lynch today so I'm not going to create a giant wall post.

I'd agree that he's been somewhat anti-town. I remember having difficulty reading him, but I think he actually does believe what he's saying.

For example, posts like 71, I think that indicates he's just confident about the silly things he's saying.

[Expedience]

@Expedience

VOTE: Sakura

Compromise?

VOTE: Sakura Hana

[Expedience]

Well it's obvious everyone wants to believe in Expedience the pinacle of towniness who apparently never lied or misrepped, i'll just expose him in another way.

As for you, you die.

VOTE: Boonskies

lmao

[Expedience]

That is L-1, inb4 Expedience goes "OMG LOWELL IS SCUM FOR PUTTING BOONS AT L-1"

Nah, he's town.

VOTE: Garmr

[Expedience]

the Vengeful role is not Normal

looooooool wtf
VOTE: Sakura Hana

And are people actually voting Boonskiies, that's so dumb wow. He's un-counterclaimed as having stopped the mafia's nightkill and hence confirmed as town, right?

[Expedience]

Boon i'll give you until your next post to fix your claim into something that isnt a lie and explain why you lied or otherwise im adding super glue to my vote.

If we analyse this post it should be obvious that she isn't counter-claiming just the jailing part - she is being vague in her counter-claiming. I took it as .. maybe a tracker who might have tracked Boon - and she realized that boon hadn't visited toastytoast.

And yet Boon jumped to the conclusion that Sakura is counter-claiming Jailkeeper. Why did he jump to that conclusion again? I think it is because he felt sakura is counter-claiming jailkeeper.

Dude she isn't counterclaiming, she's just throwing shade on him.

[Expedience]

VOTE: Boonskiies

stop

[Expedience]

check the normal game wiki before you claim next time lmao

VOTE: Sakura Hana
VOTE: Sakura Hana
VOTE: Sakura Hana
VOTE: Sakura Hana
VOTE: Sakura Hana
VOTE: Sakura Hana
VOTE: Sakura Hana
VOTE: Sakura Hana
VOTE: Sakura Hana
VOTE: Sakura Hana
VOTE: Sakura Hana
VOTE: Sakura Hana
VOTE: Sakura Hana

[Expedience]

I doubt it was the role added though. Too coincidental.

[Expedience]

@Smith:

What would it take to convince you to vote Boons and get it done with?? Would me offering to be tomorrow's lynch if he flips town do the trick? I mean, both myself and Sakura are now willing to take the fall for it. Would you PLEASE vote before I die of boredom?

How can you possibly think Boonskiies is scum at this point, like seriously. As of now, he's confirmed town.

[Expedience]

No, I don't think you understand. If nobody else claims to have stopped the kill, Boonskiies must've been the one who stopped it.

[Expedience]

While i would love to see boon eat his pants in hot sauce, the one thing bothering me is dier's stance in all of it.
He says i should be lynched because im vengeful so that i can shoot Boon, but wouldn't the townie mindset be to let the scum waste a NK on me instead.

That explains why you were self-voting earlier, since you don't have a "townie mindset". You should go back to doing that.

Vengeful would be the 1 possible role added.

This is a really weird position to take for someone who wasn't believing me in their previous post.

"If Sakura was town," is clearly the implied context.

[Expedience]

I haven't read Dier's case on Chilled because I just got back, but i would really prefer him to take a strong stance on both me and Boon, because with the way things are going there's no way the lynch can be shifted elsewhere.
Also.
VOTE: Boon

Self-vote and vengekill Boonskiies if that's your actual role.

Scum will never nightkill you.

[Expedience]

Even if you think Boonskiies is scum

(he's not)

, voting Sakura still gets Boonskiies dead if Sakura is town. The converse does not apply.

[Expedience]

Or do you think that Boon would/should have been aggressively questioning Lowell's theory there? If so, why?

I would have certainly have questioned the theory, aggressively or not. If I'm a doc or jk or roleblocker, and there's no NK, my first assumption is going to be that I'm responsible, and I'd question anyone else who tried to take credit. Remember this is a mini game, how many roles to stop the NK do you imagine we have?

One, and you're voting them.

If you think Sakura is town and Boon is scum, let Sakura vengekill Boon.

[Expedience]

If boon is scum I could see expedience being boons partner with the way he is pushing for sakura's lynch.

So if Sakura is town, why would I push for her lynch if that means Boonskiies still dies?!

The far more sensible argument would be that you are Sakura's partner for pushing for Boonskiies' lynch.

[Expedience]

I would understand wanting to lynch me if you think im scum and lying, but trying to tell others to lynch me because it's better to lose 1 town and 1 scum instead of just 1 scum, that's a really bad argument.

I agree. That's why I'm not supporting lynching you on that basis.

[Expedience]

VoteCount 2.9

With 12 players alive, it takes

7

votes to lynch.

Maestro (0):

Almost50 (0):

Sakura Hana (3):

Boonskiies, Lowell, Expedience

Lowell (0):

mhsmith0 (0):

texcat (0):

Garmr (0):

Boonskiies (6):

ToastyToast, Garmr, chilledtea, texcat, Almost50, Sakura Hana

(L-1)

Dierfire (0):

ToastyToast (0):

chilledtea (1):

Dierfire

Expedience (0):

Not Voting (3):

Maestro, mhsmith0

The deadline is in

(expired on 2016-04-05 12:00:00)

NOTES:
None

what the actual fuck, unvote boon ffs

[Expedience]

sakura is obvious scum
sakura claims a role unlikely to be present in the setup
this role's ability can only be used when they are lynched
boonskiies voters: "LETS LYNCH THE CONFIRMED TOWN LOL"

[Expedience]

That generalization does not apply. We don't know the roles, we do know there wasn't a kill on night one.

[Expedience]

chilled tea please unvote why do you continue to torment me like this

[Expedience]

That generalization does not apply. We don't know the roles, we do know there wasn't a kill on night one.

And you will believe what boon says, just because there is no counter claim?

Yes.

Can you tell me why Boon thought that Sakura was counter-claiming jailkeeper?

I am not Boonskiies, but I think it was because of how strongly Sakura was pushing Boonskiies lying.

[Expedience]

That generalization does not apply. We don't know the roles, we do know there wasn't a kill on night one.

+1

There are three basic possibilities at work here:

1) Boon was telling the truth
2) Some other PR prevented the kill (BP or doc), and is actively choosing to remain silent for whatever reason
3) Scum decided not to kill last night

#3 is transparently ridiculous. So either Boon was telling the truth, or some other PR is staying silent for whatever reason. And while #2 IS possible (sorry exp, but it is possible, and is why Boon isn't 100% conf town), #1 is very much possible as well. Which means that it'd be ridiculous to lynch Boon at this time.

It is possible, but really at this point they need to just claim if they are a jailkeeper or stopped a kill or whatever.

[Expedience]

ok so it appears the only way i can dispel the minute possibility that boonskiies' invisible and non-existent counterclaimant is deciding not to claim for some reason is to YELL LOUDLY AT THEM

SO IF YOUR ROLE IS ONE WHICH MAY HAVE PREVENTED A KILL LAST NIGHT, YOU MUST CLAIM IN YOUR NEXT POST.

Watch nothing happen. Lynch Sakura.

[Expedience]

ok so it appears the only way i can dispel the minute possibility that boonskiies' invisible and non-existent counterclaimant is deciding not to claim for some reason is to YELL LOUDLY AT THEM

SO IF YOUR ROLE IS ONE WHICH MAY HAVE PREVENTED A KILL LAST NIGHT, YOU MUST CLAIM IN YOUR NEXT POST.

Watch nothing happen. Lynch Sakura.

pagetop for visibility

fuck you sakura

[Expedience]

I dont really like outing PRs when unnecessary, but if since you guys are so damn stubborn if a PR doesnt counter claim with an ability that could've stopped a NK in 24 hours i'll stop the push.

Add you self-voting and it's a deal.

[Expedience]

It is possible, but really at this point they need to just claim if they are a jailkeeper or stopped a kill or whatever.

Why? There's currently a reasonable chance that sakura will flip vengeance and kill boon, or boon will get lynched regardless. I don't see what kind of gain we can get from potentially outing a PR here.

No, not a reasonable chance. I'd rather out a PR than mislynch a PR in general, anyway.

[Expedience]

I dont really like outing PRs when unnecessary, but if since you guys are so damn stubborn if a PR doesnt counter claim with an ability that could've stopped a NK in 24 hours i'll stop the push.

Add you self-voting and it's a deal.

Sure, except if no one CC's... im vengekilling YOU instead.

Go ahead.

[Expedience]

I was reaction testing Boon, he didn't react how a Town PR reacts to someone that he's scumreading claims.

it was just a prank

[Expedience]

I was reaction testing Boon, he didn't react how a Town PR reacts to someone that he's scumreading claims.

it was just a prank

who do you find worse, the reaction tester who was already scum-reading boon, or the guy who hops onto the wagon just for that reason?

the one with the anime avatar and implausible fakeclaim

But really, I think chilled tea is arrogantly mislead town. When he argues with you he doesn't call you scum or heavily misrepresent you or spam rhetoric, y'know? Also he quickhammered Madonna, that seemed pretty obnoxiously self-assured. He just always stays chilled tea

There are 6 players voting Boonskiies and they all have bad reasons for being there. If I was looking for scum there chilledtea would be like the fourth person I looked at or something.

[Expedience]

Wait a second, wouldnt another PR outing mean that Boons is counter-claimed? I don't understand why you say "ANOTHER" town PR.

Yeah, glad to see we agree that Boonskiies won't be counterclaimed.

[Expedience]

Wait are you serious noooo wtf how

[Expedience]

Okay boonskies is scum then lets wait a bit before hammering though

[Expedience]

Garmr's probably scum. Idk, need to rethink shit.

[Expedience]

VOTE: Boonskiies

[Expedience]

Certainly I can't think of anyone who's merited a stronger town read at this point than Sakura.

I agree kinda, bussing is still a thing though. We definitely shouldn't lynch Sakura now, but if we get to MyLo and she's still alive we should lynch her and have her vengekill because she's claiming a non-normal role.

[Expedience]

I don't think Garmr-Exp is town-town. Trying to decide if it's plausibly scum-scum. At any rate, Exp's role fishing yesterday was pretty terrible.

VOTE: Expedience

Lynching Boonskiies without a counterclaim would be ridiculous.

I will never vote to lynch anyone in a position like that if they were uncounterclaimed. From where I was standing I could see a bunch of people trying to lynch a PR who I was townreading based on reachy reasoning.

[Expedience]

VOTE: Garmr

Also, I doubt Direfire is scum. Especially not for the reasons I can see Garmr preparing to pull out of his ass.

[Expedience]

Boon

-I originally thought because he was more active than he usually is was a sign he was trying to improve his town game since he hardly gets voted as scum but these last couple of pages make me feel diffrent. I don't like how he was trying to threaten me by linking me to tex cat while buddying me at the same time.

Garmr, if you and texcat are scum together, bus your buddy now please. Texcat is scum, we can lynch you tomorrow instead of today, okay? See, if you think about it, I'm actually protecting you.

Chilled, if texcat flips town, I'm coming hard after you tomorrow.

Yeah, but Garmr is always like this too.

I really don't like being buddied.

I think Garmr is bussing Boonskiies here.

As far as other scum, I would say maybe Maestro / texcat / Almost50. That's really all I can see.

[Expedience]

Sakura, you were telling the truth about being vengeful, right? It would just be good to check in case it was some sort of gambit to pressure Boonskiies.

[Expedience]

VOTE: Garmr

Also, I doubt Direfire is scum. Especially not for the reasons I can see Garmr preparing to pull out of his ass.

You know, it's a lot more fun if you wait until after those reasons get ass pulled.

You're right, but I'm impatient. He can still explain why though.

[Expedience]

Sakura, you were telling the truth about being vengeful, right? It would just be good to check in case it was some sort of gambit to pressure Boonskiies.

Ugh, what's with this role fishing. For one i do lots of gambits but also im a type of player to claim early for no reason, it's better for scum to figure it out on their own.

This is your last chance to retract your claim. I still don't 100% believe you for what it's worth.

If it gets to MyLo and you retract, then you will be lynched because you had a chance to retract earlier.

If you are really vengeful, then lynching you at MyLo is still the best thing to do. I hope you understand.

[Expedience]

As far as other scum, I would say maybe Maestro / texcat / Almost50. That's really all I can see.

Interesting. Why don't you toss in Sakura and Toasty there too. Oh, and smith for that matter. :P

Because I don't think those players are likely to be scum.

[Expedience]

Boon

-I originally thought because he was more active than he usually is was a sign he was trying to improve his town game since he hardly gets voted as scum but these last couple of pages make me feel diffrent. I don't like how he was trying to threaten me by linking me to tex cat while buddying me at the same time.

Garmr, if you and texcat are scum together, bus your buddy now please. Texcat is scum, we can lynch you tomorrow instead of today, okay? See, if you think about it, I'm actually protecting you.

Chilled, if texcat flips town, I'm coming hard after you tomorrow.

Yeah, but Garmr is always like this too.

I really don't like being buddied.

I think Garmr is bussing Boonskiies here.

As far as other scum, I would say maybe Maestro / texcat / Almost50. That's really all I can see.

So you bring up the point boon was buddying and then say I was bussing becuase I pointed out how uncomfortable I was with being buddied since boons never done that before. That's Scummy rhetoric Exp!

I didn't say why I thought you were bussing, and that's not why. That's not even rhetoric anyway.

Your were townreading Boonskiies earlier and you suddenly turned on him. I don't think he was "buddying" you at all here, that doesn't even make sense. He was literally calling you scum (while not really pushing you for that matter).

It was all so sudden and the reasons you gave sound fake. I don't think Boonskiies' posts that you quoted changed your read on him, Boonskiies isn't doing what you accuse him of doing. I think you knew he was scum all along and decided at that moment to bus him.

[Expedience]

Garmr, could you explain why you think Direfire is scum? Thanks.

[Expedience]

I doubt mhsmith0 is scum. I would vote Lowell before voting mhsmith0.

Almost50, you made a mistake in not including Garmr in the first list you asked me for, and then you drew an incorrect conclusion.

I also think you're putting far too must stock into those silly lists.

[Expedience]

Here are the lists provided by others. Everyone has their own suspects:

Boons, Lowell & Expedience (Almost)
texcat, Lowell & chilledtea (smith)
Garmr, texcat & Lowell (chilledtea)
chilledtea, Lowell & Boons (texcat)
chilledtea, Boons & Expedience (Garmr)
Sakura, Sakaya, texcat (Expedience)
texcat, chilled, Sakura, Sakaya (Boons)

Yeh, I meant to include Garmr in the list but I thought you asked me for

other

scumreads, I'm voting him obviously.

[Expedience]

Be home soon building a race car

Sounds fun.

townpoints for Almost for trying to get the game going. But badpoints for strangely trying to link lynches. I'm sure I'm biased on this one, but I don't see the Exp/Lowell link at all. And not in the "oh man I've been trying so hard to distance but damn he got me" way. But in the, "I have no idea what is happening" way.

His opinions are deeply rooted in confirmation bias.

[Expedience]

Still happy with my vote on expedience here.

Well you shouldn't be, if you're town.

Also, I would've made some sarcastic continuation of what you accidentally posted, but that could be seen as talking about ongoing games. So you can chuckle softly if you want.

[Expedience]

Also, that "maybe town" read on Garmr is horrible. Just looking to set up an eventual read flip.

@Expedience - help me out, please....

Since scum have daychat he was asking town to vote Sakura.

And he spent practically the entirety of the game defending me and agreeing with my reads except he didn't want to lynch Garmr. I guess as he went down he tried to tie me to him as much as possible and I messed up by going along with it.

[Expedience]

We're not talking about how Boons treated you. We're talking about how you treated him though.

Who are you to dictate what I talk about?

[Expedience]

You're absolutely welcome.

[Expedience]

I was prodded. I'm very drunk. If you have anything to say to me, say it. Otherwise, I understand why my slot was so unconcerned about this game. Take that as you will.

are you scum?

[Expedience]

Nah, I don't really think you're scum.

Also, if Lowell ends up being scum after all this I will be super upset with myself. Because I can actually see what Direfire is saying about the wagon thing, but Lowell doesn't feel very scummy.

Garmr is definitely scum though.

[Expedience]

how, it's like, a post

[Expedience]

how, it's like, a post

Get. The fuck. Out.

Or get on my level. Pick one.

I dislike your tone.

[Expedience]

Sorry, I'm still just as happy as can be with my vote on Expedience. But I would also be happy to go back to Lowell.

Sakura, can you explain why you have Expedience and Lowell so high up on your list?

Expedience posting when the whole CC thing came down felt towny (it felt genuine that he didnt expect a counter claim)
I liked Lowell's 1296 even tho i disagree with the conclusion.

It looks to me like he knew Boon was going down and wanted to make sure scum got something out of it by insisting on a counterclaim. Did his questioning/threatening you about your vengeful claim toDay also look towny to you?

I thought Boonskiies was what he claimed to be. I insisted on a counterclaim thinking that none would occur. Scum would've got a lot more out of it if they lynched an uncced PR.

Is there any more as to why you think I'm scum other than that you think I was anti-town?

[Expedience]

My actions weren't anti-town and I never said they were. I would never lynch someone who claimed to have stopped a kill without a counterclaim.

[Expedience]

I think after the vengeful claim he noticed chilled behavior and started to push on him to try and get a wagon onto him. In response to almost 50s counter claim he tries to doubt on it subtly (the bolded bit) cast doubt on it while also at the same time lecturing chilled. It's kinda feels like scum trying to lecture town.

Why did you counter the claim, then?

In your initial response to Boon's claim that I quoted above, and in several of your responses recently,

you seem to be saying that your plan was not to counter the claim because you thought that your role was more valuable concealed. Initially, your response was even to allow Boon to survive the day (in favor of lynching Garmr).

What has changed since then that you absolutely needed to convince Expedience and mhsmith0 that Boon is Mafia now, today?

I think this makes Dierfire town, anyway, because there was no way he would push chilledtea after the claim if he knew that Boonskiies was scum. The momentum was strongly against Boonskiies. It looks to me like town who believed what he was saying.

[Expedience]

My actions weren't anti-town and I never said they were. I would never lynch someone who claimed to have stopped a kill without a counterclaim.

Is there any more as to why you think I'm scum other than that you think I was anti-town?

You were trying to push that a scum point on you was just being perceived as anti-town.

Yes?

[Expedience]

I think after the vengeful claim he noticed chilled behavior and started to push on him to try and get a wagon onto him. In response to almost 50s counter claim he tries to doubt on it subtly (the bolded bit) cast doubt on it while also at the same time lecturing chilled. It's kinda feels like scum trying to lecture town.

Why did you counter the claim, then?

In your initial response to Boon's claim that I quoted above, and in several of your responses recently,

you seem to be saying that your plan was not to counter the claim because you thought that your role was more valuable concealed. Initially, your response was even to allow Boon to survive the day (in favor of lynching Garmr).

What has changed since then that you absolutely needed to convince Expedience and mhsmith0 that Boon is Mafia now, today?

I think this makes Dierfire town, anyway, because there was no way he would push chilledtea after the claim if he knew that Boonskiies was scum. The momentum was strongly against Boonskiies. It looks to me like town who believed what he was saying.

I disagree he may of had hope that he can save his scum buddy or stall it. You are ignoring the inconsistencies in his play and trying to find alternative reasons to why he is town.

Really doubt he was trying to do that.

Day 2 End

Boonskiies (6):

ToastyToast, Garmr, texcat, Almost50, Sakura Hana, chilledtea, Expedience

LYNCH!!

Sakura Hana (2):

Boonskiies, Lowell

chilledtea (1):

Dierfire

Maestro (0):

Almost50 (0):

Lowell (0):

mhsmith0 (0):

texcat (0):

Garmr (0):

Dierfire (0):

ToastyToast (0):

Expedience (0):

Not Voting (2):

Maestro, mhsmith0

[Expedience]

My actions weren't anti-town and I never said they were. I would never lynch someone who claimed to have stopped a kill without a counterclaim.

Is there any more as to why you think I'm scum other than that you think I was anti-town?

You were trying to push that a scum point on you was just being perceived as anti-town.

Yes?

But you are obviously being scum read for it so your basically trying to turn a scum point into something else with out defending against it.

What I mean is that texcat is scumreading me for doing something anti-town, that's what I mean when I say that texcat is scumreading me for doing something anti-town, by which I mean that texcat is scumreading me for doing something anti-town.

[Expedience]

Still haven't caught up, sorry. A skim gives me townvibes on texcat and Almost 50 recently, and I still believe sakura is town based on the battle with boon yesterday.

VOTE: expedience

This is naked vote someone I previously called town. I'm just going to do this and try to weather the storm, because this day is nowhere. My reasoning here, such as it is, isn't so much the case on exp itself (which is fine, but not overwhelming), but more based on who is on the wagon and exp's reaction to it.

So you think I'm scum?

[Expedience]

@Expedience

It seems likely that you will be lynched today. Could we get an updated list of reads?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reed_%28plant%29

[Expedience]

But actually, my reads remain unchanged ever since a small amount content ago.

[Expedience]

That's so stupid. Nobody really does that as scum.

[Expedience]

Oh, damn. Garmr is bussing.

???

Vote Garmr then.

[Expedience]

Oh, damn. Garmr is bussing.

???

Vote Garmr then.

What.
Wouldn't the logical course of action if you think X is busing Y would be to vote the person with the largest wagon?

I'm terribly sorry.

Naturally, you are correct.

My deepest condolences, Lowell. I have fixed the post below.

Oh, damn. Garmr is bussing.

???

Vote me then.

[Expedience]

Actually, voting you -Expedience- IS the logical thing to do. For Garmr to "bussing" you it necessitate for you to be scum in the first place. Otherwise it's not "bussing". Yes?? Sorry, mate.

???

That's so stupid. Nobody really does that as scum.

Which is then why it might be a good idea to do just that as wolf. Ah, the joys of WIFOM and trying to separate anti-town from wolf behavior.

It's almost as outlandish as Garmr's accusation of Dierfire trying to start a counterwagon on chilledtea because he wanted to save Boonskiies.

[Expedience]

You know, I would be in a perfect position to fakeclaim a non-whitelisted role right now, from how I appeared to know that Sakura wasn't vengeful. I won't do that because I'm town, but I did consider it.

I'm a VT. You shouldn't lynch me because I'm town.

[Expedience]

Unfortunately that doesn't change a thing. With a Universal Backup flipping already we know we must have at least one other PR, and any PR claims could contradict your claim if you did claim PR yourself, so it's safer for you to just claim VT. In fact, if we were to mass claim I suspect everyone would claim VT including the Town PR(s) at this time.

???

[Expedience]

?????????

[Expedience]

???????????????????????????

VOTE: Lowell

[Expedience]

I was feeling a bit out of it when I made those posts.

Yeah, I do think Lowell is scum. My scumreads are Garmr, Lowell and texcat.

I think I supressed my Lowell scumread so I wouldn't get lynched, and so I wouldn't die of shame if I was wrong. But I already fucked up this game so sorry.

[Expedience]

k

also just a reminder, make sure to pretend to think im trolling when i claim town after the hammer

otherwise people wont think you were actually scumreading me

[Expedience]

hammer me idc

[Expedience]

lol

[Expedience]

You shouldn't use provable randomness, while FA_Q2's rules don't seem to specifically prevent it some mods dislike it.

[Expedience]

I was town gl

[Expedience]

Uh, lynch Garmr?