Mafia 70: Traditional - Game over!

[Simenon]

Vote Yamahoko

[Simenon]

These are not votes for Yamahoko.

[Simenon]

These are not votes for Yamahoko.

How can we vote for someone not in this game?

I see what you did there.

[Simenon]

Unvote
Vote Fonz

[Simenon]

I did

not

receive any pm from Niv calling me out on anything. In fact, I have received the following pms from Niv:

Him saying hi and acknowledging my existance.
When I told him we shouldn't talk, he confirmed he wasn't told we were trustworthy.
Continues to confirm that the mason team was not told as a whole the mason team was not untrustworthy.

Niv, I have no idea how my suggesting we should talk, because there

may

be a mafia among one of us (I did

not

suggest I didn't know we were untrustworthy) leads you to conclude that I did not have the untrustworthy part in the pm.

"One of us is probably mafia" is not "Do you think this mason group is untrustworthy?"

[Simenon]

And yes, I did not receive and pm from Niz stating I was scum and asking for a response. That pm is either fictitious or I didn't get it. Leaning on the former for now.

I told another mason partner the exact thing. He can confirm that.

[Simenon]

Niv:
Can you directly quote your PM to Simenon and his PM back to you? I think that is allowed as long as you don't put in anything from role PM in it.
Also, just to make sure, was it explicitly stated in your role pm that one among the five is scum?

No, it's not, but you should ask the mod anyway.

[Simenon]

Niv, I have no idea how my suggesting we should talk, because there may be a mafia among one of us (I did not suggest I didn't know we were untrustworthy) leads you to conclude that I did not have the untrustworthy part in the pm.

Sorry, I meant suggesting we should not talk, as it may give hints to a mafia in the group. I told this to him and another.

[Simenon]

My experience with unconfirmed masons is that the only use of night talking is to give the mafia a more informed kill/night choice.

[Simenon]

/shrug

what difference does it make?

[Simenon]

Did the PMs say explicitly that one of the mason was mafia? Or did it say he was merely untrustworthy?

The latter, but not directly.

[Simenon]

Unvote
Vote ZONEACE

I don't particularly like his fossing of both Niv and I, and the last sentence of 105 is scummy. I think he's trying to avoid committing to anything.

I'm a bit puzzled as to why one of Niv and I have to be town. It's possible that I simply did not receive the pm in question. There is no reason for Niv to send it as scum and there really is no reason for me to ignore it as scum.

[Simenon]

Sorry, that's supposed to say "why one of Niv and I have to be scum".

[Simenon]

and with that I guess its obvious who the scum is.

Vote Simeon

voting for someone that believes you? good move.

This post is so obviously ridiculous I wonder if I should respond to it.

[Simenon]

Sime has now picked up his pms. i would like to ask you this now: why did you send out a warning about using the 5 man masonrys sparingly, if it was in cluded in "your pm?"

My pm does not say to speak sparingly! If that is your argument, then I don't know how to respond.

One of the masons can back me up here, surely.

[Simenon]

my role pm says something along the lines of the factthat i am quite possitivve that someone canot be trusted in our masonry.

We may be interpreting that bit wrong. Mine could say something along those lines, but I got it as "you can be sure of a possibility" and not "you are sure there is a scum".

[Simenon]

EBWODP:
And of course we shouldn't go too much into what it actually says for fear of modkill.

[Simenon]

I think Niv, Simeon and Lemming are all Scum, and it will be obvious after you lynch me.

You think there is more than one mafia (or mafia at all) in the mason group?

There are three other buddies that could confirm it if you think the masonry doesn't exist.

[Simenon]

Hi zoneace. I see you there!

Answer 122 please.

[Simenon]

Yeah let's lynch TS after we killl zoneace.

[Simenon]

I certainly think it's illogical, but playstyle and his general behavior this game suggest to me ckillor is town. This is with the fact that it's a bold move to go after a mason at this point unless ckillor happens to be scum with Niv and knows enough information to see through the claim.

I think you could be scum based on your scum list, which is fairly opportunistic in your assessment of this game.

[Simenon]

Colin's lack of a Nivote is bizarre. This in itself is null, but I see a clear dichotomy in the arguments and favor a Colynch. Since, y'know, Niv came out without prompting on Day 1 and all.

I've made it clear that I'm leaning on some sort of miscommunication between Niv and I (Niv is a player who seems to be frequently miscommunicating) rather than Niv being scum. Why do you find this bizarre?

Either Niv lied or he didn't: Colin's mason-talking strategy is an irrelevant tangent.)

This shows you really haven't paid attention to the situation. This in itself is the center of the issue.

[Simenon]

I certainly think it's illogical, but playstyle and his general behavior this game suggest to me ckillor is town.

What are the signs that ckillor is town despite his complete lack of logic? I do not know this player.

I pointed out one. But I think ckillor generally flails around and makes useless arguments more as town than scum. This is only from reading a couple games.

[Simenon]

Am I missing something?

Yeah, pretty much the entire bit on what Niv "called me out" on. He didn't just pm me saying "ur scum lol". In fact, to my knowledge, he didn't pm me at all, but that's what triggered this discussion.

[Simenon]

Eh, rethinking it, here is probably where the miscommunication lies:

I send Niv a pm saying that one of us may be scum and we shouldn't talk that much.
He sends me a pm (presumably the one I picked up) saying that he didn't need to be telling that.
He follows up with a pm saying something about outboxes and saying "point stands".

No where did he mention I was scummy for what I said, just that he didn't need to be reminded that one was possibly untrustworthy.

Now I would definately like Niv to clarify.

[Simenon]

I did read another pm earlier, but it said the exact same thing of another he sent, except with a question attatched. So I ignored it.

[Simenon]

My entire issue is not the fact that you sent the original message, but the fact you never responded to the question i askd you. even though i asked multiple times.

you never asked me a question in the pm I picked up at night

!

2nd: calling him out w/ a question.

However, I only read the third pm, and the third pm did not contain a message.

so you admit ignoring my question?

No, Niv. By then it was day. I just didn't bring it up in thread, because I thought I had already read an identical pm the night before, and it was impossible to give an answer. Only now do I read the distinction.

[Simenon]

At its essence, the case against Sim seems to be that he sent out a warning against possible scum masons when this warning was already in the mason PM. To me, the important question is whether he would do this, even if he knew that the warning was in the PM. If the answer to that question is no then he almost certainly didn't receive the same PM as everyone else.

BUT THE WARNING NOT TO TALK WAS NOT IN THE MASON PM!!

The most reasonable argument you could put forward would be "well, the logical conclusion is not to talk". But I have already given an explanation for that, something which Niv fails to answer to.

[Simenon]

BUT THE WARNING NOT TO TALK WAS NOT IN THE MASON PM!!.

So it was in the scum PM. I see.

Vote Simenon

.

Don't be an idiot. I have already claimed to have three other mason buddies- they can tell you if the warning was in the pm or not. Unless you mean to suggest all are scum except niv.

warning that there is a scum in your group = dont tell the scum what you are doing.

So my pm was a logical extension to the warning in the mason pm?

Thus confirming that I had received the mason pm?

Odd.

[Simenon]

or that it shouldn't need saying, thus, you didn't know we all knew that.

You obviously haven't read carefully enough. Reread my point in 201 until you think you have the answer. Then resubmit your paper. Be sure to put it face down.

Re-worded, mine says: something along the lines of: you have a really sure that there is an infltration.

I didn't get that

at all

in the mason pm. Rather, paraphrased mine says something along the lines of "you are sure someone may be scum". That doesn't mean there IS a scum. Also, nothing resembling the word infiltration was used.

Again, reread my post in 201, which answers probably any follow up to this.

[Simenon]

Unvote
Vote Yamahako

Rereading finds Yama much more scummy than Zone or TS.

[Simenon]

I don't remember advocating my own lynch.

[Simenon]

Please switch your votes to Yamahako and not someone so distracting, thanks.

[Simenon]

Hey guys, almost done with my read through.

This is not a vote for Yamahako.

Why is it never a vote for Yamahako?

[Simenon]

jdodge that was obviously not a good post.

[Simenon]

Jdodge, can I hear a case against me? Do you have a case against me?

he obviously won't post one. he still thinks being useless is a good game plan as long as it gets you lynched.

thread lolz

[Simenon]

Aimee: lurking most of the game, huge megapost, but needs to post more. Leaning town
TS: weird vibes. I need to look at his posts more. Neutral
Fonz: I don't know why but I get scummy vibes off him. Need to look into it more.
Ether: I didn't even know Ether was playing

Why those four players?

[Simenon]

Sorry, I thought you were responding to post 534

[Simenon]

guys we won't actually get to kill anybody if we can't decide on a lynch.

[Simenon]

[
My play is off this game -and in all honesty- I feel terrible with my play- however I'm trying something new and there's always some growing pains with a new strategy.

For reference Yama's playstyle is not the reason I am voting him.

[Simenon]

Unvote
Vote booboodafool

Best wagon around. I could switch to yama, but I don't think that will accomplish much.

[Simenon]

Thanks captian obvious, wnat to change peoples minds then?

If it was obvious then maybe we'd all start getting the message.

I switched to booboo because:
1. I stopped thinking Yama was scum.
2. BooBoo had the biggest new wagon.
3. booboo was scummy and still is scummy.

Unless anybody has any realistic alternatives, I will continue voting him.

Tweny eight pages without any direction in this game is not going to end in a town win.

[Simenon]

Colin, why is White not a realistic alternative?

He's not a "new" wagon, iirc, and wagoning White tends to get him lynched/killed regardless of whether he's scum or not.

[Simenon]

Dislike Ergo defending booboo. I think bb himself can explain that he didn't know what "Percon C" is. I personally don't think it's as strong as Fonz would like it either, but that's not why I'm voting him anyway.

Why are we voting TVZ?

[Simenon]

sorry for not contributing much, personal life has interfered. I work two jobs and quit one of them for stress reasons. Will try to take a heavy look at the thread before the weekend

Right. So now you work one job...

GET TO WORK D:<

[Simenon]

All these posts saying "you should vote for this guy, yo" persuade nobody and will just give us 50 pages of crap to read through tomorrow.

They do help clarify your position, however.
They have other applications but that's another argument.

I find it a bit interesting how you insist on assessement, and yet the only assessement you have offered on booboo is "well, my thoughts are well documented." I'm willing to bet most of us have their thoughts on these players well cocumented.

[Simenon]

lol cocumented.

[Simenon]

Anyone on a one man or two man bandwagon is highly suspect.

[Simenon]

Yamahako, Setael, Flare and White are higly suspect.

[Simenon]

White: Why is ether a productive vote? What "stage" do you think we are in right now? What should be the play expected of townies? What are your priorities today?

[Simenon]

Sim: Tunnelvisioned and seems to want to appease mass majority. Likely anti town

Interesting. Want to explain how I could be both?

[Simenon]

I'm not sure what you're referencing here.

What information will voting ether produce?

The one after the random voting stage but before the stage where people start to scumhunt and stop being stupid.

Despite this game being over thirty pages and almost a month long?

When do you think the town should lynch?

You say you're not having fun. I can guess why, but I'd rather hear that from you too.

[Simenon]

It's at different times. Sometimes you just make a simple post, "***** needs more votes" and other times you list who we should all be focusing on which happens to be popular opinion.

I'll admit to the former, because I don't think it's a bad thing.

The latter, I'm afraid, you'll have to back up.

I'm sorry, voting either what? Lurker or Active person? Voting a lurker will hopefully bring them out of lurking. Voting an active person will hopefully gain information from their defence.

Ether the player. You know, the mafiascum account you are currently voting.

Yep. That's part of the reason i'm not really having any fun.

Follow up:
Do you think your vote is contributing to this, and therefore contributing to you not having fun?

I'll give you a hint: you may have noticed I targetted all of the players who are one one-man wagons.

[Simenon]

More later. However:

@ Simenon - hey, with Fonzie's vote switch, you are now one of those suspicious players that are on a 1-2 person wagon!

Yes, you keep reinforcing this for some reason. Have you ever actually considered what I'm actually saying?

I'm very much opposed to the White lynch. Therefore:

Unvote
Vote TVZ

[/b]

[Simenon]

Sim, you said: "Yamahako, Setael, Flare and White are higly suspect." but now "I'm very much opposed to the White lynch."? I appreciate that you're not going to be part of lynching me but why the sudden change of heart?

Because I didn't individually consider you of course. It was my way of prodding you people back in to wagonning.

TS apparently doesn't understand that. ):

[Simenon]

I'm very much opposed to the White lynch.

Why? Why is that? Because he's not scum with you, you know his alignment? Is that what you're saying?

I can understand why a player might find some other player scummier than White, but I can't understand why someone would be violently opposed to a White lynch - a guy that votes players for "buddying up to lurkers."

Unless you're scum and you know something I don't.

Yeah, this post makes it pretty clear that YOU know white is town and you are trying to set up two lynches.

So just because I don't trust the White wagon makes me know he's town (which is funny, because that statement already implies that your vote is in the wrong place). Well, the minority of this game -1 isn't going to be on the White wagon and probably because they didn't think he was going to be a good lynch.

I'll switch if it doesn't pick up steam, but I honestly can't see why nobody would pick this up as well:

Unvote
Vote ToasterStrudel

[/b]

[Simenon]

And yes, the reason I distrust the White wagon and think White is town was the result of my interrogation. I thought that would have been obvious.

[Simenon]

Unvote
Vote MoS

I see what you did there.[/b]

[Simenon]

I am like 90000% sure that MoS is scum right now.

Here's a fun test for everyone: you know why?

[Simenon]

nope. 2 more guesses.

HINT: it has to do with a specific post.

[Simenon]

Most of this post strikes me wrong, and I'm thinking that you're claiming cop just to survive a couple extra days. So

IGMEOY: TS

However, even a counterclaim won't prove TS scum, since we could have multiple cops. I'm willing to give TS a chance for now, but we need to watch her like a hawk. She'll slip eventually if she's scum.

Also notice that she *still* hasn't answered many of the accusations against her.

Unvote, Vote: Zorg

is this the post you're talking about?

ding ding ding.

Now what about that post is should mean that mos dies today?

[Simenon]

I'm at a loss. Is it the counterclaim comment? are you saying he was rolefishing?

I suspect he's inferring that MoS was trying to discourage a counterclaim, possibly because he knew TS wasn't the cop?

I have some notes on MoS, but I want to hear what Sim is getting at before I go into it.

Quite close. Want one more shot?

[Simenon]

Better:
He's making it seem like he's counter claiming cop, but doesn't want to attract the nightkill. The "we could have multiple cops so no counterclaims" is a pretty obvious subclaim. But since we have two cops, the idea of MoS counter claiming is shot down.

This makes him by far the best lynch available.

[Simenon]

I thought it was water tight. ]:

Willing to lynch either TS or MoS today. I can't understand how we could lynch anybody else.

[Simenon]

Thanks for acknowledging I was right and then still saying I should be lynched. A lot of reasoning behind that, I can tell.

no u r not rite

[Simenon]

Yes my name is colin. What's an lfr?

[Simenon]

Unvote
Vote ToasterStrudel

I honestly don't care as long as one of them dies today and the other tomorrow. I'm going to need to be very much convinced if you want me to switch my vote. Shame on anybody not voting one of MoS and Toaster Strudel.

[Simenon]

The more we allow her to live the less chance we'll remember to lynch her in the future.

Call it cynical, but I know a lazy town when I see one.

[Simenon]

Forget is a bad word. I meant we are going to be distracted by "other targets" and save TS for later for the entire game. It may be a better play to wait a bit, but I feel we should get it over with anyway.

That said, I would admittedly prefer MoS over TS.

[Simenon]

Okay. Provide a reasonable alternative.

[Simenon]

hint: not voting is not a reasonable alternative.

[Simenon]

Zorg would be much better as an alternative.


Okay. Why?

[Simenon]

Hay for future reference:
When I quote someone, it means I want a response from them.

Still waiting on Aimee.

[Simenon]

Your absolute determination to lynch claimed cop is noted.

Can you prove that I have "absolute" determination to lynch the claimed cop?

[Simenon]

Also, imo any doctors out there would be wise to protect lemming over TS.

Why are you directing the doc?

[Simenon]

HI JDODGE


<3

[Simenon]

HI BBB








<3

[Simenon]

I need to catch up on this game.

Unvote

[Simenon]

Zorg had some heat, dissapeared, re-appeared posted the above and has since dissapeared again. For what it's worth he still looks the scummiest to me.

While I agree this behaviour is scummy, it should be noted that...

Sir Tornado wants to apply pressure to the lurkers, now from my understanding this would be an easy case for scum to go after people, picking on the lurkers, something to look for. Especially those after me haha.

Tornado it is again in 312 pushing for the lurkers, again I see this as somewhat a mafia ploy, yes it could be seen pro-town but it could also be looking to shift the scum attack in a different direction.

Irrelevant. You're comparing apples to oranges.

It would be actually great if you stopped talking in metaphors.

But this is a crisis. A large crisis. In fact, if you've got a moment, it's a twelve-story crisis with a magnificent entrance hall, carpeting throughout, 24-hour porterage and an enormous sign on the roof saying 'This Is a Large Crisis.'

Bonus points to whomever gets the reference first.

Shut up JDodge. Go back to your lurking.

Look at me I'm a helpful contributor

You were better off lurking. Seriously.

HI SIR TORNADO :wub:

[Simenon]

In other news, pyramid quoting lawl.

[Simenon]

In other news, can't make a detailed post until the weekend.

[Simenon]

The Zeppo wagon is incredibly dumb.

Unvote
Vote mos

[Simenon]

@Simenon: Rather than just saying it's dumb, could you point out any errors in logic or things I am misunderstanding? Because... nothing has been said by zeppo or anyone else to refute it at all.

The people on the wagon are almost entirely terrible and Zeppo has done too many town things to be scum in my mind right now.

[Simenon]

Behold!

Zeppo (6) -- Ether, Setael,

Mastermind of Sin, JDodge, Niv, Flameaxe

[Simenon]

Vote: Zorg

Let's try this again...

Why?

[Simenon]

Good God Zoneace is an idiot.

Vote KaleiÐoscøpe

Reasons later.

[Simenon]

I bet TS is an insane cop.

lol
I bet Setael is TS' scum buddy.

[Simenon]

Did I not called it?

ah called it ah called it.

Unvote
Vote Toaster Strudel

[Simenon]

By the way, we are lynching one of Zoneace and SirT tomorrow. Preferably ZONEACE

[Simenon]

FoS: Simenon. I still expect an eleboration from you.

And why can we never expect one from you?

[Simenon]

If that doesn't satisfy you:
1. You were on the Zeppo wagon.
2. You voted zorg, someone I have down as town as well as an easy lynch.
3. You seem to be trying to set up booboo today. I have reasons for why booboo would be a bad lynch.
4. I was attempting to get you to react. When someone actually provides a reason for voting you, you tend to ignore them. I was trying to see if you would respond to no reasoning. In fact you did, with a slight bit of double standard.

[Simenon]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Because I never promise them, and you did?[/quote]

I never defined "later".

Why is it a bad thing if I do not abide by my promises? Why is that scummy to you?

[Simenon]

#1 is a weak argument: Zeppo was going to get lynched, and I had the choice between a no lynch or a lynch on someone who could be scum (this also a very easy thing to say IMO, especially if he turned up town),

Or encouraging a lynch that woud have been successful.

#2 and #3 are subjective and yet to be explained

That doesn't matter. They are still valid in my mind. All of YOUR votes are yet to be explained. Does that mean we shouldn't take them into account?

Also, "subjective". Obviously I'm going to vote people based on my opinion.

This is also not the first time someone has gone after somebody for pursuing an easy lynch.

#3 is role related. Why shouldn't I vote you for it?

#4 is something I chose to ignore since you said you would eleborate it later.

Pretty sure you would have ignored it anyway.

[Simenon]

Because I'd be willing to wager rl money on Lemming being town. ZONEACE was attacking Lemming aggressively and I think SirT tried to invent a contradiction in Lemming's posts where there really was none. I can imagine a situation where TS told her scumbuddies to set up a lemming lynch while she was on the fence.

And I'm not really that suspicious of you. You were in the grey area until you voted Zorg. I needed to see how you would respond.

[Simenon]

un vote vote TS

I'd just like to point out the Simeon has no basis for his case, and if anyone would read what i was saying yesterday I was attacking TS already thinking she was lying.

My "case" was that you were aggressively attacking lemming. How is that incorrect?

Or in other words, you are misrepresenting any "case" that I have.

Getting nervous?

[Simenon]

Other townies that might lynch you? You being investigated/blocked tonight?










also please keep this in the context of this game because I obviously was and I really don't want to hear obnoxious whining about what's goin on irl unless you are warning us about inactivity etc. (just in case)

[Simenon]

And you have yet to explain why attacking TS yesterday is relevant to my "case" on you.

[Simenon]

Either I was Bussing her yesterday for no reason, or you have no case.

I thought I explained why that didn't matter. I said we should lynch you tomorrow because of you attacking Lemming. You bussing TS is not relevant to you attacking Lemming, it's something else we should consider tomorrow. Instead of defending yourself (not that I asked you to defend yourself), you brought up something irrelevant and said "get your facts straight".

what the fuck are you talking about?

I thought your "ahv got things to be nervous about" comment could have been about your life outside of this game and I honestly don't care.

[Simenon]

it's not irrelevant. You're suggesting I'm scum, which would mean I'm TS's ally. Well, thats simply not true.

Even if you were voting TS and advocating his lynch, it still doesn't directly deal with the fact that you were supporting Lemming's lynch.

I think they're both scum.

Not sure if this is irrational or if it's an attempt to reconcile with your previous behavior.

[Simenon]

and you need some damn reading comp. cause I said "i've got less to worry about than you" meaning, im less worried about being lynched tomorrow than you should be.

Ambiguity obviously doesn't exist.

Why should I be worried about being lynched?

This post is

[Simenon]

ITS HONESTY


jesus, are you that stupid?

In mafia, I think people are scum. Therefore, they aren't always fucking honest. Imagine, a scum not telling the truth!

So in effect you are saying "It's stupid to believe I'm scum!"

This is why you should die. I hope you stop joining mafia games so people don't have to deal with your consistent idiocy.

[Simenon]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Simenon. You are being hypocritical when it comes to eleborating stuff. That is all.[/quote]

I'm not opposed to not elaborating on things. I wasn't opposed to you not elaborating on things. But you can't say "why have you not elaborated on this yet" and not give a reason for voting the entire game.

[Simenon]

Then mafia is not your game.

[Simenon]

And why is it stupid to think you're scum?

Let me guess: because you were attacking TS?

/sigh

[Simenon]

And also: explain why it's rational to believe both TS and Lemming are scum

[Simenon]

BECAUSE I'M CLEARLY TOWN.

CIRKULAR ARCUMENT

[Simenon]

I've thought lemming suspicious ALL GAME, him claiming cop doesnt change that. and TS actions over the last day+ have made me believe she is scum.

So you don't think there are any cops in this game? So you believe Lemming would counter TS? Why is that more likely than one being scum?

[Simenon]

CIRKULAR ARCUMENT

NO ARCUMENT

CIRKULAR ARCUMENT

are you even trying?

[Simenon]

10.) Avoid excessive profanity, flaming etc.

This is for Flameaxe and Simenon and anyone else whose vocabulary isn't extense enough that they have to resort to ad hom and cursing. It's been brought up by other players in this game so I know I'm not the only one who finds is obnoxious. Thank you for your cooperation.

All things considering, I think I've been quite restrained, thank you. I'd like you to point out any unprovoked ad homs (with the exception of the "zoneace is an idiot" post, which isn't an ad hom and I immediately regretted posting it). TIA

[Simenon]

Also, Setael, we buddies (<3). She cool with me, I cool with her. So if she thinks that ahma being rude, I might as well think it's well-founded, no?

[Simenon]

ToasterStrudel is a she. She is the alt account of a she. She has an another alt that is surprisingly a she.

[Simenon]

I saw it before so it irked me. Don't be so touchy.

[Simenon]

pretty sure flare is an alt of IH.

Semi-limited access until friday. I'll land a vote then.

[Simenon]

Wow, I forgot Jdodge was in this game. I'm going to review his posts.

[Simenon]

Not much there.

Mostly lurking, some "unhelpful" comments (as much as I hate the word, this is one of the few cases where it actually fits, as Jdodge seems to be deliberately useless.)

Lack of current position (unlike Jdodge).

WILL YOU PEOPLE STOP ARGUING ALREADY.

THIS IS POINTLESS AND IRRELEVANT TO LYNCHING WHITEY.

"hay guys, let's all stop arguing" is pretty bad, and it looks like he put in something clevar in there to excuse it.

Vote Jdodge

No, I will not stick to what I said yesterday.

[Simenon]

So IH

how's

being IH.

[Simenon]

Bookitty took the question right out of my mouth. And for the record I think it is perfectly fine to vote someone for defending a living player. Ergo's snapping at lemming is not justified.

MoS just seems really awkward right now around Battle Mage. It feels he is overcompensating for being weak on TS.

I still, however, prefer a jdodge wagon.

[Simenon]

MoS: it felt like you kept your vote on him for so long because you "had to".

Unvote
Vote yamahako

[Simenon]

Players I would bandwagon:
1) Aimee
5) JDodge (replacing ckillor)
7) Sir Tornado
8) Mastermind of Sin
9) Yamahako
11) ZONEACE
16) KaleiÐoscøpe
17) Elmo (replacing Beastly)

Players I won't wagon:

6) Ether (replacing Honary Hitchhiker)
10) Lemming1607
13) Battle Mage (replacing The Venerable Zorg)
15) Flare
16) KaleiÐoscøpe
17) Elmo (replacing Beastly)
18) Niv
19) Erg0
21) Bookitty (replacing booboodafool, replacing Celtic18)

This is not a suspicion list.

[Simenon]

Simenon, your list has a suspiciously large number of suspicious people...

Learn to read.

[Simenon]

Simenon, your list has a suspiciously large number of suspicious people...

Learn to read.

Actually, not sure what you mean here. Do you mean it is suspicious I have a large list or are you being clever on the people you think are suspicious in this list.

[Simenon]

Neither. It's suspicious that there are a lot of suspicious people who you are unwilling to wagon.

Okay. Why?

And why are some people twice on it?

Because I made that post late at night. I'm willing to wagon anybody who appears twice.

[Simenon]

Since there are a lot of rather suspicious people on your "won't wagon" list, it's rather suspect that you were trying to make an excuse to not vote them without actually giving a real reason for it

I don't think they are suspicious people. Which is why I'm not willing to wagon them. Which makes this argument completely pointless.

If I had any intention of sneakily bandwagoning, I wouldn't have posted a list.
This way, even if they get lynched somehow, you can point back and say "but I told you all I wasn't going to vote them, so of course I didn't vote them!"

why would that make any sense.

Smells like BS to me.

No, I acually did post a list. I assure you I'm not lying, I typed it out and submitted it and everything!
What you mean to say is that you disagree with it. But that's a pointless argument and it won't get anywhere.

[Simenon]

Also, I obviously am not going to post reasons for everyone on that list. That would essentially be making a suspicion-list, which is something I am opposed to.

I simply am telling people who I will vote today. That means I am taking repsonsibility for the lynches that follow.

You are making too big a deal out of this for me to be comfortable.

[Simenon]

It's a "for clarification, here's who I'm willing to wagon today" list.

[Simenon]

My joke about Flare was, oddly enough, not intended to sway your vote, Kaleidoscope.

bah-zing.

[Simenon]

Um, why are people voting Bookitty?

Officially, Kscope is voting Bookitty because she was Celtic18 and friends. It's possible he's voting her because he's scum.

Officially nobody gets ZONEACE.

[Simenon]

I believe Flare is IH's alt?

Hey, IH is also sick. What. A coincidence!

[Simenon]

Semi-limited access for the next three weeks- posts will happen but limited.

[Simenon]

Mod

- Can you please make note of what former players have replaced back in?

[Simenon]

I can't be the only one bored with this game.

[Simenon]

Leading the town toward future lynches is scummy. Telegraphing the towns lynch plans to scum is scummy

[Simenon]

Sim, jdodge: what are you bored of? Scum hunting? Why?

Perhaps it's because you haven't read the game yet, but this day has gone on much too long, as with this game. No one seems capable of getting anything done and we are plagued with lurkering.

[Simenon]

Please explain post 190.

[Simenon]

Vote Jdodge

poke.

[Simenon]

she inherited his past behaviours and his bad associations, and added a bit of wishy-washy justification for her hammer on Yamahako on her own, so I will

Explain. I have no idea what you mean- Setael and IH have very different posting styles.

I think the Setael wagon is not the right place to go right now. I didn't feel IH was scum, and I don't blame Setael for hammering. I'm going to continue voting Jdodge until I can be sure it won't pick up steam.

[Simenon]

I was not referring to posting styles, but rather the fact that Flare's scummy behaviours and associations with TS were inherited by Setael by virtue of the fact that she replaced him.

It's time to start justifying your vote by analyzing her, I think.

What's the basis for the JDodge suspicion?[/quote]

He still hasn't done anything since the previous wagon on him. And when he does present something, his posts sound awkward:

Unvote, vote White

Back to business as usual

Hrmm.

Vote: Flare

Flare needs pressure and is scum, both of which are good reasons for the BM and MoS wagons to cease whilst we actually go after scum.

Yamahako and Bookitty votes are fine, though.

He needs a good poke anyway.

[Simenon]

Your analysis leaves out how much time we spent arguing about nothing. I would consider hammering after that too.

Setael: Why did you ignore Bookitty before? Why did Setael I ignore bookitty?

[Simenon]

Not voting: Aimee, Ether, Sir Tornado, Elmo, ZONEACE

I'd like these people to commit to a vote.

[Simenon]

We call her kore.

[Simenon]

Why do you bother making a case on bookitty and then not even contribute towards her lynch?

[Simenon]

For me, this is a choice between the players your replaced and the players on your bandwagons.

My IH meta tells me Setael isn't scum. MoS and Jdodge are high up on my suspect list.

Vote Bookitty

[Simenon]

so early in the day

[Simenon]

Skruffs, you seem to be letting Bookitty distract you. Do you now think Bookitty is town? Or just that MoS is scummier? You better have good reason to think Bookitty is town since you are now effectively stalling/possibly derailing her wagon.

To be honest, this makes me consider switching.

[Simenon]

I thought you might say that. At some point, anyway.

subtlety is not desirable in mafia.

[Simenon]

Setael-Bookie-MoS is looking more and more like a likely scumgroup

lol

[Simenon]

Ether, are you thinking what I'm thinking about Bookitty-scum?

yes or no question.

[Simenon]

Evidence please?

This question is better directed towards Setael than kore, Bookitty.

(V)

[Simenon]

So now I see why Jdodge didn't pick up all my game related pms last night. ):

[Simenon]

I think you're scum

We can now confirm zoneace has not read the game.

mafiascum needs ignore lists.

[Simenon]

Lynch Wagon Starter-Post:

[quote]Mastermind of Sin (4) -- Flare, The Venerable Zorg, Simenon, Lemming1607

White

(3) -- Sir Tornado,

Yamahako

,

Toaster Strudel

The Venerable Zorg (4) -- Beastly,

Erg0

, Aimee,

The Fonz

Toaster Strudel

(1) -- ZONEACE

Zeppo

(7) -- Ether, Setael, Mastermind of Sin, JDodge, Niv,

Flameaxe

, KaleiÐoscøpe

Not Voting: booboodafool,

White

,

Zeppo

22 alive, 12 to lynch. 7 to lynch at deadline.

Battle Mage (1) -- Mastermind of Sin

Toaster Strudel

(10) --

Erg0

,

The Fonz

, Simenon, KaleiÐoscøpe, Bookitty, ZONEACE,

Yamahako

,

Setael the first

, Sir Tornado, Niv

Not voting: Aimee,

Toaster Strudel

, JDodge, Ether, Lemming1607, Battle Mage, Flare, Beastly,
19 alive, 10 to lynch.

Bookitty (1) -- KaleiÐoscøpe
Battle Mage (1) -- Aimee
Mastermind of Sin (2) --

Yamahako

, Battle Mage
Yamahako (9) -- Ether, Simenon, Bookitty, JDodge, ZONEACE, Niv, Mastermind of Sin,

Erg0

, Setael
ZONEACE (1) -- Skruffs

Not voting: Sir Tornado, Elmo
16 alive, 9 to lynch. 5 to lynch at deadline.[/quote]

1) Korejora (replacing Aimee)

-- Did not vote Zeppo (voted zorg, now battle mage), Did not vote Toaster Strudel (was not voting), Did not vote Yamahako (voted battle mage)

2) Simenon

-- Did not vote Zeppo (voted mastermind_of_sin), Voted Toaster Strudel, Voted Yamahako

5) JDodge (replacing ckillor)

-- Voted Zeppo, Did not vote Toaster Strudel (was not voting), Voted Yamahako

6) Ether (replacing Honary Hitchhiker)

-- Voted Zeppo, Did not vote Toaster Strudel (was not voting), Voted Yamahako

7) Sir Tornado

-- Did not vote Zeppo (voted white), Voted Toaster Strudel, Did not vote Yamahako (was not voting)

8) Mastermind of Sin

-- Voted Zeppo, Did not vote Toaster Strudel (voted battle mage), Voted Yamahako

10) Skruffs

(replacing Lemming1607) -- Did not vote Zeppo (voted Mastermind of Sin), Did not vote Toaster Strudel (was not voting), Did not vote Yamahako (voted zoneace)

11) ZONEACE

-- Did not vote Zeppo (voted toaster strudel), Voted Toaster Strudel, Voted Yamahako

13) Battle Mage (replacing The Venerable Zorg)

-- Did not vote Zeppo (voted mastermind of sin), Did not vote Toaster Strudel (was not voting), Did not vote Yamahako (voted mastermind of sin)

15) Setael II (replacing Flare)

-- Did not vote Zeppo (voted Mastermind of Sin), Did not vote Toaster Strudel (was not voting), Voted Yamahako

16) KaleiÐoscøpe

-- Voted Zeppo, Voted Toaster Strudel, Did not vote Yamahako (voted bookitty

17) Elmo (replacing Beastly)

-- Did not vote Zeppo (voted the venerable zorg), Did not vote Toaster Strudel (was not voting), Voted Yamahako

18) Niv

-- Voted Zeppo, Voted Toaster Strudel, Voted Yamahako

21) Bookitty

(replacing booboodafool, replacing Celtic18) -- Did not vote Zeppo (was not voting), Voted Toaster Strudel, Voted Yamahako

[Simenon]

Bookitty, that was a horrible, horrible claim. Regardless, I was voting Bookitty because she is one of the masons, that's why I assumed Ether was voting Bookitty, and that was the reason why I asked ether if she was voting bookitty because of my reasoning.

Haven't we been over how being a mason doesn't confirm you?

@Niv: that's why it's a "starter post". It's a helpful tool for anyone who doesn't want to put in the full effort to analyze the lynches. And lynch-wagon analysis is the only stable (although often times inaccurate) tool we can rely on.

What I don't understand, Niv, is why you didn't object to the lynch before bookitty claimed.

[Simenon]

Or are you proposing I should have lied?

Yes.

And why did you out Ether at this time?

1. You outed ether by claiming.
2. Ether further outed herself by confirming your claim.

So that part of your statement is simply untrue.

No, you are misreading. I am saying I asked her for her opinon, which came with her vote. Not that it matters; my post still stands no matter what post she voted you in.

[Simenon]

Thinking about it, no, I don't think you should have lied if you are town.

I do think, however, that you should have taken steps earlier to ensure the masons would be off your case before you claimed.

I'm going to unvote bookitty because I'm not sure she's the lynch anymore, especially with niv acting the way he is, I can't be certain she's a scum mason. Also, it seems other options are developing right now.

Unvote
Vote MoS

[quote[8) Mastermind of Sin -- Voted Zeppo, Did not vote Toaster Strudel (voted battle mage), Voted Yamahako[/quote]

[Simenon]

Unvote
Vote MoS[/quote]

8) Mastermind of Sin -- Voted Zeppo, Did not vote Toaster Strudel (voted battle mage), Voted Yamahako

[Simenon]

I did not out Ether by claiming.

You did, although indirectly. You gave a damn good reason for me to check my "logic" with ether.

She didn't out herself with her response to it

I acknowledge Bookitty's claim but will not move my vote.

I still fail to see the logic of voting for me simply because I'm a mason, which is the reasoning you've stated so far. Could you explain that to me, please?

Certain in-group conversations had led me to believe you were a/the scum mason, which is also I'm sure the reason why ether voted you. That was one of the reasons why I voted you.

[Simenon]

Unvote
Vote Mastermind of Sin

What steps would those have been?

Addressing the masons indirectly might have been nice.

[Simenon]

.

I made the assumption, clearly erroneous, that you were using your votes on me to lure out scum who would jump on Setael's logic-bereft wagon.

Clearly, seeing as this makes very little sense.

In that case, there'd be no disadvantage to town knowing as well.

Well then, why make it any secret in the first place?
I'd like an answer before responding to this.

Also, when did I suggest that the mason necessarily had to be a

mafia

mason? Why would you assume that?

Additionally, I hadn't roleclaimed when you decided you needed to discuss with Ether in thread, so even then, YOU outed Ether

Nobody would have understood if you hadn't claimed.

In fact, they didn't at all.

If I had addressed the masons indirectly (and I would argue that I posted to the entire town, not leaving the masons out) then you might have a case that I had outed Ether, but as it is, you made all the decisions that led to that, and in fact outed her yourself.

So if you have lived in fear of this the whole game, why haven't you voted me?
And if you have not, this point is useless, since you couldn't have forseen me "outing ether" in the first place.
I'm leaning towards the latter.

These are ALL outweighed by the fact that Niv didn't object to the lynch before Boo claimed?

I haven't talked to Niv since he went on about ignoring his pms.

Would a townie mason be more likely to 'persecute' a perceived scum mason than a scum mason?

If someone just outed their entire mason group, can't that be considered a much scummier thing, esp if they are already voting one of their mason partners? I'm looking at you, here, Simenon...

What are you babbling about? None of this makes any sense. I'm arguing that bookitty outed the mason group first, and she is arguing that I just outed ether first, both of which makes your post mean about nothing, skruffs.

[Simenon]

Were you hoping to out ether? Was bookitty supposed to not claim? How would that have looked on any of the masons who were voting their buddy later on in hte game if they then decided to claim??

I've been over this- Ether (or so I thought; it would be great if she confirmed this) already confirm-outed Ether.

[Simenon]

Your statement wasn't a claim.

And you don't think it could be construed as such?

(to Ether, and I assumed she passed it along to you)

Nope

I wasn't intending to out you, nor do I think either you or I outed you.

I have been suggesting you indirectly outed ether, which you did if anybody was observant enough to go back and look at a couple pages.

The rest of your post tries to prove what has already been admitted- I did think you were scum.

but I'm not sure why you're so bent on blaming everyone but yourself for it.

Certainly, I handled this in an awkward way. But I would never mention that in any game unless someone asked me about my responsibility, unless I am solely to blame.

----

If you read my posts from the beginning of the game, I have always suspected MoS. Now I see that there already is a vote on MoS, which makes me think there is renewed interest in his lynch. I don't want to vote anybody that I think would be a waste.

@Ether- Did we not have a conversation considering booky being a scum-mason? I'm sure I mentioned it a couple times.

[Simenon]

This is getting tedious.

I am under the impression you are a more careful player than this.

I have never been a careful player. See: communique mafia, Newbie 291 (I think)

Did you ever at any time think it wouldn't be noticed, and therefore shouldn't be made obvious by YOU? Did you ever consider letting ether be the one to make it obvious? It makes no sense, and I need you to expound your thought process behind calling attention to ether's claim (from your POV) or outing ether (from my POV).

No, I don't think it would have been obvious immediately, not until a couple game days later. By then, it would be towards the end of the game, and it didn't matter as much.

Do you still think Boo is scum, or at least the "untrustworthy mason" or no?

Less so, but still, yes. Part of the reason I unvoted her is that I don't think the town would lynch a claimed mason. The town needs someone to die.

[Simenon]

It would have been fine if you had made that argument on page 73, Bookitty. But I've gone over all of those arguments; your post is merely reorganizing them then making further unsubstantiated assumptions.

Simenon argues that he thought I was scum. His own statements are that he "was voting Bookitty because she is one of the masons", that he doesn't understand why Niv didn't object to the lynch before I claimed, and that I outed Ether by claiming. Now, I didn't speak to Simenon or Niv during nighttalk, so I don't know on what he is basing his viewpoint. Ether clearly didn't pass along the comments I'd asked her to, so whatever information Simenon and Ether shared was just between them.

Problem: Simenon thought I was scum.
Argument: Niv didn't think I was scum.
Response: I checked with Ether, I posted something to Ether, and I communicated with ether for a reason: I thought you were scum. We have at least four masons in this group. Why couldn't I have simply talked to Ether? Besides, this is confirmable. Ether, did I talk to you about my suspicions of booboo? Niv, Did i talk to you about my suspicions of booboo? See, look, if they answer their questions, your argument falls to pieces.
Already responded? Check

His first comment (and he had not unvoted at this time) was "Bookitty, that was a horrible, horrible claim." Look at the tone, there. Does that seem like someone who thought they were addressing scum? It sounds more like someone scolding town for what they saw as a bad play, to me.

Problem: Simenon scolded me about claiming
Argument: The tone of his post suggests someone talking to someone town.
Response: In my post, it is obviously assumed that "if you are town" precedes that comment. It makes no sense to me to have to say "if you are town if you are town if you are town" before every comment that I make.

He stated this, in saying I was responsible for outing Ether: "You did, although indirectly. You gave a damn good reason for me to check my "logic" with ether." How? By defending myself? By trying my best not to out the masons while going along with what I believed to be a gambit on Simenon's part to out scum? What precisely was a "damn good reason" to talk to Ether in thread?

Problem: Simenon says I outed Ether.
Argument: I did not out ether, in fact I tried not to out ether.
Response: You can't answer this one with a question, bookitty. You don't necessarily need to claim mason to defend yourself. You don't out masons while trying your best not to out masons. And I think catching scum is a good enough reason.
Already responded: check.

Simenon wrote: "What I don't understand, Niv, is why you didn't object to the lynch before bookitty claimed." Why would he expect this of Niv, when he stated this as well: "I haven't talked to Niv since he went on about ignoring his pms." Additionally, why would he want Niv to object to the lynch, if Simenon thought I was scum? How would Niv outing me be better than my claiming?

Problem: Simenon does not understand why Niv did not object to the lynching of a mason until after the mason claimed.
Argument: Simenon also says he has not talked to Niv.
Response: You are taking both quotations out of context. My quotation addressing Niv had to do with Niv's reaction after the mason claim. My second comment was addressing why Niv did not also join in with ether and me in wagonning you.
Already responded? Check.

None of his statements make any sense if he believed I was scum. His entire premise rests on the belief that I would sacrifice myself rather than claim... not a premise that makes any sense, but even less sense if he really thought I was scum.

Argument: Simenon's entire premise rests on the belief that I would sacrifice myself rather than claim.
Response: My entire premise does not rest on the belief that you would sacrifice yourself rather than claim. If that was the case, I wouldn't be voting you BEFORE you claimed.
Already responded: kind of.

Why, if he thought I was scum, would he scold me for claiming? ?

Problem: Simenon scolded me for claiming.
Argument: Simenon wouldn't have scolded me for claiming if he thought I was scum.
Response: But I ended up taking it back! This would have been a perfect argument before page 74, but this is no longer relevant.
Already responded? Check

Why would he move his vote off me, when neither of his other mason partners had done so?

Problem: Simenon moved his vote off me when neither of his mason partners had done so.
Argument: Simenon shouldn't have moved his vote off me when neither of his other mason partners had done so.
Response: Doesn't mean anything. The fact that my partners haven't moved off of you just means we had a reason to vote you in the first place.

All of Simenon's arguments make a sort of broken sense, if you assume that Simenon is scum, trying to push the lynch of one of his mason partners, knowing I was town and hoping I'd be lynched before I claimed

Argument: Simenon's arguments make sense if he was scum.
Response: If I was scum, I wouldn't make arguments that make sense if I was scum.

[Simenon]

If you thought I was scum, what motivation would you think I'd have for not outing the mason group? Yet clearly you thought I would not, because your first statement was to scold me for doing so.

No. Bad.

If I thought you were scum, I would have no need to make a statement in the first place, which is why I said "if you are town" in my arguments a post ago.

I think you are scum. If I knew you were scum, I would vote you. Because there is a chance you are town, I can address you as though you are town.

Your statements go back and forth between assuming I was town, and thus would sacrifice myself rather than claiming, and saying that you thought I was scum, and by extension would do whatever I could to save myself.

Not assuming that,

SUPPOSING IF

.

No, actually, the reverse would be true. If you thought I was scum then, why would you make the statement THEN? And you've stated your suspicions have shifted, so why would you take it back now?

You miss (purposefully, I suppose) the point. If I take the statement back because I agree that it didn't make sense a couple pages ago, you can't attack me for it a couple pages later.

[Simenon]

Apparently he didn't want that,

What?

[Simenon]

I'm not going to answer outdated questions- you need to put in the effort to read the game.

Hint: beginning of page 76.

[Simenon]

Also, Sim needs to explain why BooKie claim was bad. He never really explained it.

Thinking about it, no, I don't think you should have lied if you are town.Thinking about it, no, I don't think you should have lied if you are town.Thinking about it, no, I don't think you should have lied if you are town.Thinking about it, no, I don't think you should have lied if you are town.Thinking about it, no, I don't think you should have lied if you are town.Thinking about it, no, I don't think you should have lied if you are town.Thinking about it, no, I don't think you should have lied if you are town.Thinking about it, no, I don't think you should have lied if you are town.Thinking about it, no, I don't think you should have lied if you are town.Thinking about it, no, I don't think you should have lied if you are town.Thinking about it, no, I don't think you should have lied if you are town.Thinking about it, no, I don't think you should have lied if you are town.Thinking about it, no, I don't think you should have lied if you are town.Thinking about it, no, I don't think you should have lied if you are town.Thinking about it, no, I don't think you should have lied if you are town.Thinking about it, no, I don't think you should have lied if you are town.Thinking about it, no, I don't think you should have lied if you are town.Thinking about it, no, I don't think you should have lied if you are town.Thinking about it, no, I don't think you should have lied if you are town.Thinking about it, no, I don't think you should have lied if you are town.Thinking about it, no, I don't think you should have lied if you are town.Thinking about it, no, I don't think you should have lied if you are town.

Good enough?

[Simenon]

And my answer, which came almost immediately after my first post, is that I was wrong.


I CANT CHANGE MY MIND OVER POSTS IF THE POSTS AREN'T THERE.

I am not dodging any questions, I am trying to answer them to my best ability, and when you all were too dense to understand my answers, I even organized them nicely in categories and pasted them quote by quote, and even then you can't be bothered to read THE ANSWERS.

AGAIN, I AM NOT GOING TO REPEAT THE SAME ANSWER THREE

maybe even four

TIMES. ALL OF THOSE QUESTIONS I HAVE ANSWERED A PAGE
BEFORE. Oh, and with the exception of the one that does not make sense.

I already wasted my time trying to find passages for SirT that proved his question was useless- I am not going to spend an hour reanswering these.

[Simenon]

vote simenon

You know what annoys me? That I had to find an answer to your question that I already answered even when I told you where to find my answer, and then you refuse to acknowledge whether I found out that answer or not.

[Simenon]

but that you required further confirmation in-thread of discussions you'd claimed you already had with her on nighttalk.

Well, we didn't discuss if we were going to bandwagon you. There was a wagon starting, I had ideas on you, I jumped on, and I tried to remind ether about our discussions. I don't see what is so contrary about that.

2) Everyone who has weighed in has commented that you were the one that outed Ether. Was it unintentional? How did my behaviour "force" you to talk to her in thread in the first place?

"Everyone says you outed her. How did you feel about outing her?"
Everyone saying I outed her is not persuading me that I actually in fact outed her.

You stated you thought I was scum. You were still voting me when you posted the "lynch starter" post. Why would you do that, if not to try to deflect from my lynching, and why were you still voting for me while setting up a "lynch starter" for other targets, BEFORE I'd claimed?

This is a loaded question. I was not trying to set up a lynch starter.

Why in the world, if I was a mafia traitor as you claim, try to deflect from your lynch?

4) You stated that part of my argument was that Niv didn't think I was scum. I never said that. Niv was voting for me. He still hasn't unvoted. So far as I know, he was voting me based on Setael's case. So you're addressing an argument there that I never made, that isn't based in fact, and you are attacking this argument I DIDN'T make based on the fact you didn't talk to Niv? What does that have to do with anything?

I'm the one who's quoting your posts.

5) You stated you didn't think the town would vote for a claimed mason. So was it your intention to get me quicklynched before I could claim, or did you honestly think I would never claim at all? If you thought I was scum, why would you think I would never claim at all?

It was my intention to get you lynched yes, and as I have said before, if you were scum, I would expect you to claim, which is why I said "that was a terrible claim" had an assumed "if you were town" attached.


Hey bookitty. When you try to "sum up", instead quote the person your arguing with. Otherwise, it's pretty easy to ignore what the person actually said. If you were really seeking answers, I'm pretty sure you would try to do that.

[Simenon]

You misread, bookitty. That is a starter-post devoted to lynch wagons (as you can see, I have analyzed three lynch wagons in that post). That had nothing to do with your lynch. I called it a starter-post because it does not yet express an opinion.

[Simenon]

Why did you post it at that time?

Because analysis is nice to have?
Lynch wagon analysis would seem to be useful once there have been a few lynches.

If you thought I was scum, why would you detract from my imminent lynch by posting something that seemed purposefully designed to distract from that wagon?

This seems to be another loaded question. It obviously was not my intention to distract from your wagon, and I don't think it did in the first place.

If it was your intention to get me lynched, why would you post something that "had nothing to do with my lynch" right before you achieved your goal?

I am not a lyncher. My goal, as a townsperson, is to win the game. I do that by catching and lynching scum.

[Simenon]

Why in the world, if I was a mafia traitor as you claim, try to deflect from your lynch?

Because if Bookitty was lynched and came up protown mason, I (and I'm probably not the only one) would be pretty sure you are the "untrustworthy" mason.

Nobody then had expressed any opinion that I was the "untrustworthy mason", and if I had really meant to save Bookitty, I would have unvoted her and tried to use my masonhood to save her. Use your head.

[Simenon]

Because I felt that she was outing the masons. How many times have I had to explain this?

[Simenon]

I apologize for that, it was uncalled for.

Unless I've completely misread the game, no, nobody was still suspicious of me for that, except Yamahako. I haven't heard anything about it since.

[Simenon]

It wouldn't, sirt, because I felt nobody would spot that ether communication. Bookitty, who is even a mason, certainly didn't. Who's to say who would?

I already stated I didn't think that outed ether.

[Simenon]

I could not have forseen you claiming- that is obvious by my reaction- and had I expected you to be town, I wouldn't have wagonned you, which must mean I both didn't expect you claiming and thought you were scum, despite the fact that a scum mason should try to claim in order to out the other masons. I believe that is your big dilemma, without the conspiracy theories attached.

But that RELIES ON YOU KNOWING THAT WAS THE PROPER PLAY. I do not think you, being a scum mason, knew that you were outing ether by claiming. While it may be the proper play, I DO NOT BELIEVE IT WAS YOUR PLAY. I think the only reason you were claiming mason was the save your own hide.

So then it is in my interests to scold you if you are town.

Reading over my posts, I think now I understand where I was unclear. But if I get this right, this post should clear that all up.

[Simenon]

I don't understand the question in post 1938.

[Simenon]

I already stated I didn't think that outed ether.

Ok, so, tell me, exactly how did BooKie claim out Ether? I was under the impression that you said that that comment of yours linked Ether to masonary after Boo claim, but it seems that I have misunderstood you. Would you correct me then?

Because I felt it provided a reason for why ether and I were wagonning bookitty, a reason that wasn't necessarily there before and something both of us could easily have denied.

[Simenon]

If I were looking to out Ether, why would I be so brief?

I do not think you, being a scum mason, knew that you were outing ether by claiming.

[Simenon]

And why would a scum mason care that they outed Ether?

You still fail to answer exactly, in what post, with a quote, where Ether was outed in your view.

Where is that, please?

You do realize that you are hitting me with these questions ad nauseam?

As I said countless times, outing ether reveals one of the confirmed innocents.

And as I said, I believe your claim outed ether indirectly. Not only have I answered that specific question, but I have certainly referenced that in almost every post so far.

[Simenon]

You have NEVER answered this question,

um no. that was pretty much the first question i answered.

Explain how

because it gave the town a reason for me to be asking ether about her opinion that neither of us could deny effectively i mean have you even bothered to read any of my posts

[Simenon]

because it gave the town a reason for me to be asking ether about her opinion that neither of us could deny effectively i mean have you even bothered to read any of my posts

And how would that have been different if I'd been lynched, as you claim you intended, and my role was revealed at that time?

It wouldn't, but my whole argument has been that SCUM WOULD BE DEAD.

also, I should take the time to remind everyone that this

was

my opinion.

[Simenon]

Even before my claim, you decided to do "analysis", something that would surely be better reserved until after you knew my alignment for certain.

why? Again, my analysis did not concern you. It does not concern anybody. If I need to use it, it's a helpful

start

In fact, I answered that post more than thirty posts ago, when I said:

You misread, bookitty. That is a starter-post devoted to lynch wagons (as you can see, I have analyzed three lynch wagons in that post). That had nothing to do with your lynch. I called it a starter-post because it does not yet express an opinion.

I'm beginning to think that this intentional. You are a smart player- you actually bother to read the game. How have you missed all of this?

And you have yet to provide a response, despite me bringing this up a while ago. With you, it's all "attack simenon and ignore what he says."
I think I know where my vote's going.

Unvote
Vote Bookitty

..................
No, sirt, it doesn't. FFS nobody would spot the communication until AFTER BOOKITTY CLAIMED.

[Simenon]

In fact, my vote should have gone there three pages ago, when I started taking a tally of all the questions I had already answered.

[Simenon]

I'm thinking no one who reads the last three pages is going to be under the illusion that you've actually answered the questions put to you, Simenon.

BUT MY EXAMPLE PROVES AT LEAST ONE TIME WHERE I HAVE ANSWERED A QUESTION ASKED TO ME.

You are a smart player- you actually bother to read the game.

swiftly changing my mind.

[Simenon]

So, why DID you make the communication in the first place? If BooKitty get's lynched, her role as mason will be revealed regardless her allignment. Don't you think, in that case, you were the one who outed Ether?

Yes, I'm think I made a mistake there. I should have kept that bit to myself. But at the time, I had no opportunity to express my insider reason for why bookitty was a scum mason. I think I'll learn from this episode.

[Simenon]

You are a smart player- you actually bother to read the game.

swiftly changing my mind.

You already refuted that with your comment about how I was stupid town who claimed when clearly that was a horrible horrible move, except if I was scum and it was obvious I would do it, except you couldn't have foreseen that I would, though you did think I was scum and clearly that would be the good scum move, while the smart town move would be to allow myself to be lynched without comment.

Um, yeah.

I'll live without your approval.

:dodge::dodge::dodge:dodge::dodge::dodge:dodge::dodge::
:dodge::dodge::dodge:dodge::dodge::dodge:dodge::dodge::
:dodge::dodge::dodge:dodge::dodge::dodge:dodge::dodge::
:dodge::dodge::dodge:dodge::dodge::dodge:dodge::dodge::
:dodge::dodge::dodge:dodge::dodge::dodge:dodge::dodge::
:dodge::dodge::dodge:dodge::dodge::dodge:dodge::dodge::
:dodge::dodge::dodge:dodge::dodge::dodge:dodge::dodge::
:dodge::dodge::dodge:dodge::dodge::dodge:dodge::dodge::

[Simenon]

Also bookitty, has it ever occurred to you that I wouldn't be so touchy if you didn't insist on provoking me in every single post you make?

[Simenon]

If it's obvious that scum would do something, and you think someone is scum, how is it you said you could not have foreseen that they would do that obvious thing?

Because I don't think you intended to do it, it means that it's not "obvious".

oh, have i already answered this one? ):

[Simenon]

What do you make of Simenon's "lynch starter" post right before my claim, and his subsequent vote for Mastermind of Sin, whom you've declared to be most likely town?

Don't bother answering this question- my analysis post (which she so condescendingly calls "lynch starter", despite me never actually describing it as such) was not subsequent to my vote on mastermind of sin.

[Simenon]

Simenon, do you understand what words mean?

oh joy, more respect from the ever-loving bookitty.

Your post implies the two follow eachother without interruption; your wording is misleading, intentionally or not.

[Simenon]

What you are both ignoring is that Ether and I had communication when we were voting you and my vote was partly reinforced by ether's support. I had to assume she was town in order to make those arguments; if she's scum, I have been wrong anyway, and there's no argument then. So yes, I have assumed she was town, but because I had to assume she was town.

Simenon seems to have thought this through already, as he said he unvoted Bookitty in part because he doesn't think the town will be willing to lynch a mason. IMO, this implies that he knows the setup because he's the traitor.

That doesn't make any sense. What the town is willing to lynch is not what is scum. I have no idea why you would make that assumption.

[Simenon]

Interesting that I happen to know that ALL FOUR OF THESE are Town. The rest of you know that three were since they’re all dead. I’m the fourth as Flare, just so no one’s confused. Also odd that Simenon doesn’t list or comment on zorg who’s been getting a lot of attention.

Saying I know too much, and therefore I am picking out four town, and then saying I know too much, and therefore I am avoiding a town lynch, is a contradiction.

Regardless, you don't see me comment on a lot of people at once. We've played together- you should know this.

Also, if I name names out of a hat like that, I usually have an immediate reason, which suggests this is very

out of context

He vocally says the Zeppo wagon is stupid several times, so if he disagreed with the Zorg wagon, why not do the same? Why just ignore it?

What


Do you seriously expect me to comment on every case on day one in a large normal game the same way?

[Simenon]

Unvote
Vote Mastermind of Sin

The votes on Battle Mage seem suspiciously like "kore looks better in comparison", and I have always thought mos' vote on bm would have stopped if it wasn't bm. Just because kore has fancy linky posties does not mean her arguments are particularly compelling.

And I can't say I'm fond of Mos' switch from TS to Battle mage.

A more detailed post later, since I don't think this wagon will drum itself up.

[Simenon]

I'll respond later, but quickly bookitty no that is not what I referring to.

[Simenon]

I can't find where you've really commented on that role once all game.

Actually, this isn't true. I voted many people for wagoning zorg (and said so), which makes it obvious what my opinions were of the zorg wagon from the start.

I never found a solid difference between zorg and zeppo. They're wagons seemed, and still do seem, identical to me, and anybody who is looking to lynch both seems highly suspect.

Simenon, you're not making any sense here. I was voting this role well before BM replaced into the game. The bulk of my suspicion was based on actions made by Zorg, NOT BM. He just hasn't done anything to alleviate those suspicions so far. The hole was already dug, BM's just widening it to give himself more room.

I'm using the two interchangably here.

What switch from TS to BM? WTF are you talking about?

872-886-894

If I'm correct in what he's referring to, apparently he thinks you should have continued voting for a claimed cop without hearing her investigation.

I should have been more clear the first time I responded to this- yes, that post is a part of it, but I'm more referring to the swish between Zorg and TS. I really can't tell why a townie would go back and forth between the two like that.

Simenon, what changed your mind about this?

When Ether and Flameaxe both doubled on me, which made me realize it couldn't be avoided anymore. I still think unconfirmed masons shouldn't talk much.

[Simenon]

This isn't quite true.

That was in opposition to the White lynch, but I see your point. This has been a long, boring game, and I'm prone to forgetting my own actions.

Regardless, that makes Setael's comment utter bullshit, if you'd excuse the language.

[Simenon]

So... if you never saw a difference between the two, why were you so much more vocally opposed to the Zeppo wagon?

Zeppo was the guy who got lynched; his wagon was more relevant for me to comment on.

[Simenon]

Yes, but both were on the wagon, and it would be rather revealing if I hadn't also bolded them. I would be asked about that.

[Simenon]

I don't think it is fair to say I was wrong on BM; much more accurate would be that I was wrong on Zorg (and I'm sorry for that- I just couldn't see how he could be scum).

Obviously I need a reread. But for now

Vote Jdodge

The general apathy quickly turned into a hot pursuit looks to me like a scum reacting to trouble.