Mafia 70: Traditional - Game over!

[Niv]

[quote="Zeppo"]

Unvote

. Yamahako's last few posts have actually been constructive (except his very latest one which is

such

a Person C vote but meh), I'm not convinced of his scuminess.[/quote]

I Get what a person C is, however, why the hell do we care. it seams like such a useless tell, if it even is one at all. why do other people find so much value in them?

[quote="JDodge"][quote="Mastermind of Sin"]Why is white scum again?[/quote]

Why isn't White scum?[/quote]

You're just as bad as K.

[quote="booboodafool"]We're all just going around in circles. Im going to keep my vote on yama unless something better comes up[/quote]

so mabye you could concider what others are posing, even just a bit?

[quote="Zeppo"]This 32 page day 1 is hard enough to follow in English.[/quote]

QFT'd also, @ JD + MoS: what the was hell point of any of that crap you were talking bouit?

[quote="White"]Ack, sorry, forgot my vote was still on Yama (yes, I haven't been looking at the votecounts).

Unvote

as he's been contributing much more recently...excluding the last day or so.

Ether:

[quote="Ether"]Too uncommittal to give you any points. Then you immediately changed the subject and have refused to speak of Flare since.[/quote]Refusing requires that i'm first asked to do something. I never was, therefore I have never refused. A better term would be "haven't" but I think you're looking for a more Shock and Awe word. Sadly the one you chose was wrong. No I will not be quoting in red.

[quote="Ether"]Too uncommittal to give you any points. Then you immediately changed the subject and have refused to speak of Flare since.[/quote]Of course it doesn't. But just because I don't post about someone that's actions have been run to death doesn't mean I don't read or analyze them. Btw, I believe this could fall under the catagory coaching...

[quote="Ether"]See...I'm not seeing how you could drag your eyes through 11 words and not be capable of finishing the last 4 words of the sentence.[/quote]Me either. However, my brain reads sentences as blocks, not word followed by word followed by word so on and so forth. It allows you to generally read and know the base of the sentence without taking the time to actually read every little word. No this is not skim/speedreading. This is conserving my time while reading because I actually value my time.

Seeing as i've got a free vote, let's take it for a spin!

Vote: Ether

Overdefensive, slight ad hom, OMGUS and a bunch of WIFOM. I also get a nice scummy vibe of buddying up to the lurkers and riding other people's thoughts by simply restating what they say in your own words so that you look like it's your idea. Not to mention I don't really feel you scumhunting. Yes you have been a big thing in the Flare issue and yes you have been trying to get a case on me but you're just picking on easy targets. Notice my wagon, plenty of people find me suspicious. Your initial vote on me was OMGUS and I have yet to see where i've been so suspicious. Flare was also being the center of attention as an easy target which you jumped on.

Eh, those are my thoughts.[/quote]

WTF? I don't get it. this case makes no sence to me.

[quote="White"]TS, why don't you try scumhunting?

I have no idea what good buddying up to lurkers does, ask Ether, she's the one that's doing it.[/quote]

It dosent elp anyone, its a no tel to me

[quote="White"]I consider buddying up in all forms scummy. I guess a benefit to buddying up to lurkers is if you suspect them to be mafia and you buddy up to them then you end up doing their work for you. OTOH lurkers are going to come out eventually or they'll be lynched (ideally) and when the do come out they'll have (I guess) a warm feeling toward the other person for buddying up to them.

Generally I can't see how it's protown and buddying up is scummy (IMO) so there you have my reasoning.

TS, go scum hunt.[/quote]

To e there is no reason to "buddy up" in any circumstance, however, that is diffrent form from defending someone, ehic can often look the same, and be entirely diffrend. however thining about it, Buddying up ina ll cases is bad. don't do it as town, sucm are glad to do it if it gets you caught

one think i hate about this is youre lurker talk. yes i activly hate all the "active lurkers" (K, JD ect) however, real lurkers in this game are those that are falling behind, nt rally scummy in this day one. How bout scum hunditg you

Post 808 by Beastly is amazing. it sumarised it all quite nicly. much of what i think is included here.

[quote="Erg0"]I'd really like it if people would stop hopping off wagons just because the wagonee is lurking.

That just makes them more scummy!

[/quote]

Semi-QFT. it dosen't make them more scumy, however, i also makes them no less scummy

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]what happened to that booboo guy?[/quote]

Hi K

[quote="Sir Tornado"]

unvote

Vote White

[/quote]

Much as i think white is in nead of death as well, bold posts = bad
[quote="Zeppo"][quote="Mastermind of Sin"][quote="Erg0"][quote="Mastermind of Sin"]Why is TVZ getting away with being scum? We should vote him more, plz.[/quote]

What he said. Zorg is wagonny, over-cautious and inconsistent.[/quote]

QFT! These guys are good.[/quote]
[quote="Mastermind of Sin"]Why is TVZ getting away with being scum? We should vote him more, plz.[/quote]
[quote="Mastermind of Sin"]More votes on Zorg would be nice. Let's see if he cracks under pressure [/quote]

Yep, we get it. I don't like how aggressively you go after Zorg. I reread his posts myself and really nothing particularly leaped out at me as scummy.

[quote="Mastermind of Sin"]

Unvote, Vote: booboodafool

Person C arguments are among the most accurate, in my opinion. Good catch, The Fonz[/quote]
And yet this is a Person C argument itself! It seems like you took an opportunity to just put pressure where you could.

Vote: MoS

[/quote]

I am advocating a white lynch in much the same way, why not single me out? also, this is the only time i have ever in this game aggreeded w/ a PC arguement. FoS MoS

[quote="ZONEACE"]there's still no F in my name guys. it hasn't changed.[/quote]

I know this post is long, however QFt

[quote="Flameaxe"][quote="WhiteyTheOppressor"]Flame: Oh, he's playing this game? Post more. Likely town I guess. [/quote]

More.[/quote]

WTF. [quote="White"][quote="Sim"]Ok, you didn't actually ask this but I think I know what you're getting at. I'm not having fun because I feel there are so many bad players, poor sports and people that think lurking is a playstyle in this game it's overwhelming. Jdodge, Yama, Kscope, TS. The list just goes on, I feel us as a town have a severe handicap because of people like the aforementioned because they utterly refuse to help in any way shape or form. It's like trying to play a game with a bunch of cheaters. How is that fun? It's not!

Now don't get me wrong, I am in no way shape or form saying i'm any better than any of these people. I am however actually playing the game whereas it seems there is a substancial portion of these players that are only here to be here, make a name for themselves, socialize, make friends, show that they are right and/or superior. It's stupid! This isn't a pissing contest, this is a game. Make sense?

Btw, feeling better about you with all your questions.[/quote]

I agree whole heartadly, and personally hope to be much more actuive. my biggest issue this game is with all the active lurking htat has pushed this gmae to 38 pgs

[quote="Patrick"]Conversation hasn't been slow, but if several people want it I could give you a deadline to help you reach a consensus.[/quote]

Yes Please

[quote="Toaster Strudel"]@ Simenon
If Kaleidoscope or The Fonz switch their votes, you'll be voting on a 2 person wagon yourself! [/quote]

Which means he is on a 4 person wagon. not suspicious in the least. however this statement is retarded.

Fos TS

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Still sticking to my vote[/quote]

Hi K

[quote="The Fonz"]

unvote, vote Toaster Strudel

Scummy. You vote White if you think he's scum, not to force a claim (since, unless he's scum, a claim is a bad thing).[/quote]

I Don't think that was what he was talking about. he clearly seas white as scum, and this game is in desperate nead of content.

[quote="Toaster Strudel"][quote="The Fonz"]
More importantly...

@ Simenon

- hey, with Fonzie's vote switch, you are now one of those suspicious players that are on a 1-2 person wagon![/quote]

Actually, i think this statement has no metrit whatsoever.

[quote="White"]This town is not going to win at this rate.

I'm not buddying up to MoS, I see what he's been doing most recently as actual scumhunting, asking questions, making points. Saying i'm getting a townie vibe from someone is not buddying up. MoS is not being tunnelvisioned either.

TS! Let's hear your List of Suspicion why don't we.[/quote]

Day one not ending helps no one.

[quote="White"]Lol. Wow. Fine, run me up, when i'm hung just remember how fast the latter half of my wagon is growing.[/quote]

Waggons on the scummiest players in town are not good to analise imo

[quote="Simenon"]More later. However:
[quote]@ Simenon - hey, with Fonzie's vote switch, you are now one of those suspicious players that are on a 1-2 person wagon! [/quote]

Yes, you keep reinforcing this for some reason. Have you ever actually considered what I'm actually saying?

I'm very much opposed to the White lynch. Therefore:

Unvote
Vote TVZ

[/b][/quote]

Why?

[quote="White"]TS, still waiting on your scumdar.[/quote]

I think his scum dar is You

[quote="Simenon"]And yes, the reason I distrust the White wagon and think White is town was the result of my interrogation. I thought that would have been obvious.[/quote]

Its not.

[quote="Mastermind of Sin"]Sorry. I was out drinking last night.[/quote]

Wifom actually.

[quote="Toaster Strudel"][quote="Sir Tornado"]This post doesn't actually make sense to me.[/quote]
Simenon is a MASON... he's very opposed to a White lynch... put two and two together...

Giant FOS: anyone still voting for White

.

@MoS - I really, really don't see what's so special about Zorg. Whatever scent of scum he gives off, I must be immune to it. I read all the posts, and I just don't get it. But then again, I thought White was scum for sure, but obviously I was quite mistaken.[/quote]

UnVote, Vote White

Hope this answers questions here also,

FoS TS

[quote="Toaster Strudel"][quote="ZONEACE"]isn't Niv also a mason???? he's voting White.

so your logic is flawed.[/quote]
Well I don't know how these Masons work, and I don't want to push the issue because the last thing we need is a mass outing of Masons on Day 1.

But if Simenon says he is strongly opposed to a White lynch, he must have a strong reason. Maybe Niv isn't in on it, seeing that they had communication problems last night? I don't know.[/quote]

HoS TS

[quote="Toaster Strudel"][quote="ZONEACE"]As for Niv's vote, it looks from the previous post that he may not have kept up with the game, maybe he forgot White is his masonbuddy?

BTW - I am modding Food Fight Mafia, [/quote]

Are you really thinking I am that stupid? i may scrw up often, but i'm not a moron.

[quote="Toaster Strudel"]Interesting how some people started to vote for me because I wanted White to claim, and now I am forced to claim, which is not good. Interesting how the White wagon stalled, and my wagon took off like a rocket.

I don't know what I did wrong, but I apologize, whatever I did, I let the town down pretty bad, I have to be out Day 1.

Sadly, I'm a cop.[/quote]

Well aint that peachy. i love it when Cops play so poorly.

[quote="Lemming1607"][quote="Toaster Strudel"]Interesting how some people started to vote for me because I wanted White to claim, and now I am forced to claim, which is not good. Interesting how the White wagon stalled, and my wagon took off like a rocket.

I don't know what I did wrong, but I apologize, whatever I did, I let the town down pretty bad, I have to be out Day 1.

Sadly, I'm a cop.[/quote]

welp. I thought about it, and I'm not going to wait it out. I'm the cop.

I played aggressively today trying to hit the WIFOM sweet spot so that I don't get night killed and don't get lynched.

TS is scum.

VOTE: Toaster Strudel

I'm glad I didn't have to reread

There was no night 0 investigation, so I have not investigated yet

I did not get any special flavor for my role, just told I was a cop.[/quote]

Nice To know,

HoS TS

[quote="Simenon"]Better:
He's making it seem like he's counter claiming cop, but doesn't want to attract the nightkill. The "we could have multiple cops so no counterclaims" is a pretty obvious subclaim. But since we have two cops, the idea of MoS counter claiming is shot down.

This makes him by far the best lynch available.[/quote]

Or not. I May have been right about you at the stary

ByTW does Sim = LFR = Colin?

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]boobie is doing a nice job to fly under the radar. Everyone forgot about him already.[/quote]

Hi K

Still seing a white lynch. Want both cops to live to tomorow. also, we probally want to end the day soon. it is really lagging on. lastly, i hope to keep up better now

[Lemming1607]

For people saying it was a bad idea to counter claim.

I'm not new to mafia. It's traditional in almost every single game I've ever played to have only 1 cop in the game, with possibly a backup. The way my PM was worded, if there's another cop, he had to have gotten the same PM that I got.

Now, people started saying there was the possibility of multiple cops early in the game.

HOW COULD THEY POSSIBLY KNOW THIS

The cops don't talk to each other, and I think its retarded to come into a game thinking there's more than one cop. That is just stupid playing to me.

Dethy setups, or multiple cops with varying sanities is like the Jester role to me. You don't go into a game assuming it, you play thinking there's one cop until you're proven otherwise.

I think TS is lying about his role, and I feel really uneasy that people SETUP the idea of multiple cops into the town's head.

I think scum put the thought of multiple cops into the town's head, allowing the scum to roleclaim cop to not get outted, and people will be like "oh sure might be multiple cops"



As for my early roleclaim...if I had waited to counter claim, what are the chances of me being believed? If there was a cop day 1 claiming, and I saw someone else counter claim cop 3 or 4 days later, I'd call bullshit immediately. So I'm doing it now for the believability factor, and I'm pretty damn sure he's lying.

I'm pretty sure scum are trying to make the town believe the possibility of multiple cops, and I say that's bullshit because you don't go into ANY game thinking there will be multiple cops, especially with the role flavor I got.

It's either I'm the only cop or it's dethy with the PM I got

[Simenon]

Yes my name is colin. What's an lfr?

[Erg0]

Lemming: Regardless of your own experience, on this site it's relatively common to have multiple cops (not sane cops, but cops all the same) in a game of this size. I don't come into a game thinking "oh, there will be multiple cops in this game", but seeing multiple cop claims on day 1 forces me to consider the possibility.

I can't speak on the contents of your PM, but I do believe your claim so I'll take your statements on that subject into account. The early claim certainly gives you credibility, but it severely compromises your effectiveness. If you die tonight then it doesn't matter how believable you were. It's a moot point anyway, what's done is done.

[Lemming1607]

WTF!? How could I possibly be inferring that I was cop? I

never

lay cop breadcrumbs down. Hell, 90% of the time I don't even know when I'm the cop! I made those comments because I wanted to avoid the situation we got into anyways. Some idiot cop thinks that he is so important he has to be the only cop in the entire game, so he counterclaims the other cop and gives the doctor two targets that they have to protect tonight, giving the mafia a statistically better chance of finding scum. What was so hard about that? I can't help people being stupid, but I

can

try to take preventative measures against it. I don't know how you came up with the conclusion you're accusing me of, but it's a bunch of BS.

Why do are you 100% positive there is more than 1 cop in the game. There is no way to be certain of it, unless you and your scum buddies are trying to set up this multiple cop theory in the town's mind.

Please look at the semantics MoS is using. He's not giving even the possibility that there is only one cop in the game.

Most of this post strikes me wrong, and I'm thinking that you're claiming cop just to survive a couple extra days. So

IGMEOY: TS

However, even a counterclaim won't prove TS scum, since we could have multiple cops. I'm willing to give TS a chance for now, but we need to watch her like a hawk. She'll slip eventually if she's scum.

Also notice that she *still* hasn't answered many of the accusations against her.

Unvote, Vote: Zorg

I find this post hilarious. "I really really think your scum, but we can't prove it, so I'm going to vote for someone else I find scummy."

You say that you don't believe him, but you're going to let him live? And then you immediately say there is no way that a cop counter claiming proves he's lying.

I don't buy it. I think MoS is covering up for his scum buddy. Everything fits

[Lemming1607]

and before you say that me counter claiming cop is not proof, I agree. YOU CAN NEVER BE 100% SURE OF SOMEONE BEING SCUM UNTIL THEY CARDFLIP. So saying stuff like "prove he's scum" is retarded, you can only go on suspicions. Even a cop investigation of scum isn't proof, and town as well with the different roles we have.

There is no way possible in this game to prove someone is scum/not scum until they cardflip, and your suspicions are the only thing you're going to be voting on

[Ether]

Zeppo is not dead enough. He's like TS-lite; there's not even that claim to worry about. Kill him. Now.

I don't feel like defending the multiple cops theory even though it would theoretically be valid.

[Niv]

For people saying it was a bad idea to counter claim.

I'm not new to mafia. It's traditional in almost every single game I've ever played to have only 1 cop in the game, with possibly a backup. The way my PM was worded, if there's another cop, he had to have gotten the same PM that I got.

Now, people started saying there was the possibility of multiple cops early in the game.

HOW COULD THEY POSSIBLY KNOW THIS

The cops don't talk to each other, and I think its retarded to come into a game thinking there's more than one cop. That is just stupid playing to me.

Dethy setups, or multiple cops with varying sanities is like the Jester role to me. You don't go into a game assuming it, you play thinking there's one cop until you're proven otherwise.

I think TS is lying about his role, and I feel really uneasy that people SETUP the idea of multiple cops into the town's head.

I think scum put the thought of multiple cops into the town's head, allowing the scum to roleclaim cop to not get outted, and people will be like "oh sure might be multiple cops"



As for my early roleclaim...if I had waited to counter claim, what are the chances of me being believed? If there was a cop day 1 claiming, and I saw someone else counter claim cop 3 or 4 days later, I'd call bullshit immediately. So I'm doing it now for the believability factor, and I'm pretty damn sure he's lying.

I'm pretty sure scum are trying to make the town believe the possibility of multiple cops, and I say that's bullshit because you don't go into ANY game thinking there will be multiple cops, especially with the role flavor I got.

It's either I'm the only cop or it's dethy with the PM I got

Actually, i do belive you. and i am Iffy on TS, leaning scum. i still think we lynchh white today, then tomorow, we go back, get vesti's outa both players, then go from there

Yes my name is colin. What's an lfr?

There is a playr on MTGS (lookingForReality) that on Wifom posts under the Username of Colin. i thought hering all of this colin, that all three were the same

and before you say that me counter claiming cop is not proof, I agree. YOU CAN NEVER BE 100% SURE OF SOMEONE BEING SCUM UNTIL THEY CARDFLIP. So saying stuff like "prove he's scum" is retarded, you can only go on suspicions. Even a cop investigation of scum isn't proof, and town as well with the different roles we have.

There is no way possible in this game to prove someone is scum/not scum until they cardflip, and your suspicions are the only thing you're going to be voting on

That is way to may words for such a simple concept

Zeppo is not dead enough. He's like TS-lite; there's not even that claim to worry about. Kill him. Now.

I don't feel like defending the multiple cops theory even though it would theoretically be valid.

Why Zeppo, are there not better candidates?

[Mastermind of Sin]

For people saying it was a bad idea to counter claim.

I'm not new to mafia. It's traditional in almost every single game I've ever played to have only 1 cop in the game, with possibly a backup. The way my PM was worded, if there's another cop, he had to have gotten the same PM that I got.

Now, people started saying there was the possibility of multiple cops early in the game.

HOW COULD THEY POSSIBLY KNOW THIS

The cops don't talk to each other, and I think its retarded to come into a game thinking there's more than one cop. That is just stupid playing to me.

Dethy setups, or multiple cops with varying sanities is like the Jester role to me. You don't go into a game assuming it, you play thinking there's one cop until you're proven otherwise.

I think TS is lying about his role, and I feel really uneasy that people SETUP the idea of multiple cops into the town's head.

I think scum put the thought of multiple cops into the town's head, allowing the scum to roleclaim cop to not get outted, and people will be like "oh sure might be multiple cops"



As for my early roleclaim...if I had waited to counter claim, what are the chances of me being believed? If there was a cop day 1 claiming, and I saw someone else counter claim cop 3 or 4 days later, I'd call bullshit immediately. So I'm doing it now for the believability factor, and I'm pretty damn sure he's lying.

I'm pretty sure scum are trying to make the town believe the possibility of multiple cops, and I say that's bullshit because you don't go into ANY game thinking there will be multiple cops, especially with the role flavor I got.

It's either I'm the only cop or it's dethy with the PM I got

Please paraphrase your role pm. I fail to understand how you could be so sure you are the only cop, or that it's dethy. I cannot think of any possible wording that would give you that impression. In fact, I can't think of

any

reason that you would think it's dethy. That's just dumb. There are like, 24 or so people in this game, how could we all be cops? That wouldn't be a normal game.

WTF!? How could I possibly be inferring that I was cop? I

never

lay cop breadcrumbs down. Hell, 90% of the time I don't even know when I'm the cop! I made those comments because I wanted to avoid the situation we got into anyways. Some idiot cop thinks that he is so important he has to be the only cop in the entire game, so he counterclaims the other cop and gives the doctor two targets that they have to protect tonight, giving the mafia a statistically better chance of finding scum. What was so hard about that? I can't help people being stupid, but I

can

try to take preventative measures against it. I don't know how you came up with the conclusion you're accusing me of, but it's a bunch of BS.

Why do are you 100% positive there is more than 1 cop in the game. There is no way to be certain of it, unless you and your scum buddies are trying to set up this multiple cop theory in the town's mind.

I'm not 100% positive. I have no information about the setup. Since I have no information about the setup, why the FUCK should I be certain there is only one cop? Why would I want to risk eliminating a power role on Day 1 when I have no reason to believe there is only 1 cop? That's insanely ridiculous that you would expect me to operate that way. It's suicide for a town.

Please look at the semantics MoS is using. He's not giving even the possibility that there is only one cop in the game.

That's just a straight up lie.

I said, and I quote: "we

could

have multiple cops." I also said, and I quote: "we need to watch her like a hawk". On top of that, I even said, and I quote: "she'll slip eventually if she's scum." So

NOWHERE

did I fucking say that it was impossible to have only one cop. You are extrapolating my statements far beyond any possible recognition of what I said, twisting them to fit some foolish idea that you've got in your head. It's ridiculous, and I'm not going to let you make such gross mischaracterizations. Sit down and shut up if you're not going to think logically. I don't give a damn if you *are* a cop, if you can't use reason, I'm not going to care what you say. It's people like you that make me realize why Mafiascum is going to shit.

Most of this post strikes me wrong, and I'm thinking that you're claiming cop just to survive a couple extra days. So

IGMEOY: TS

However, even a counterclaim won't prove TS scum, since we could have multiple cops. I'm willing to give TS a chance for now, but we need to watch her like a hawk. She'll slip eventually if she's scum.

Also notice that she *still* hasn't answered many of the accusations against her.

Unvote, Vote: Zorg

I find this post hilarious. "I really really think your scum, but we can't prove it, so I'm going to vote for someone else I find scummy."

You say that you don't believe him, but you're going to let him live? And then you immediately say there is no way that a cop counter claiming proves he's lying.

I don't buy it. I think MoS is covering up for his scum buddy. Everything fits

Now you're the one playing semantics. You're the one asserting the hardline definition of "prove", not me. I used "prove" in the sense that a cop counterclaim is not enough for me to know if TS is lying. However, if TS (or you, for that matter) is lying, there will be a slip up, a mistake in results, or even a pattern that gives away the lie. TS will fall if she is scum. Therefore I see no reason to go all gung-ho for lynching her today when it's entirely possible that she was just playing really badly. I find it far less likely that she is town, but the risk of killing a cop outweighs my suspicion for the time being.

[Setael]

Mafiascum is going to shit.

It is?

[Erg0]

Now is probably not the time for that discussion. Someone start a poll in GD.

Unsurprisingly, I agree with MoS about the content of his earlier post. Please, let's skip the "I'm the cop, do as I say" discussion. We're just wasting more time here.

[ZONEACE]

whats dethy????


(sorry, more new words).

[Erg0]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Dethy

[Mastermind of Sin]

It's a game where everyone is a cop and there are cops of every sanity.

[Zeppo]

Whelp, Lemming comes across to me as being the far more convincing of the two cops. So the question I have to ask myself now is could there be multiple cops? Sure there could. But it's far from guaranteed. I have my suspicions of other players, namely those that I voted for, but I wasn't dead certain about any of them. So for now at least TS seems the best lynch,

Vote: Toaster Strudel

[Aimee]

Whelp, Lemming comes across to me as being the far more convincing of the two cops. So the question I have to ask myself now is could there be multiple cops? Sure there could. But it's far from guaranteed. I have my suspicions of other players, namely those that I voted for, but I wasn't dead certain about any of them. So for now at least TS seems the best lynch,

Vote: Toaster Strudel

???

Why is it

at all

beneficial to lynch a claimed cop on Day 1? Why is Lemming more convincing than TS?

I'm not getting this, really. Two cops does seem like a distinct possibility, but unlike others, I'm not prepared to lynch to find out.

[Zeppo]

I don't see why a claim should save TS from being lynched if that claim is not believed. If I thought there was a better lynch than TS I would be voting for that person. I'll post saying why I feel Lemming is more convincing than TS when I get the chance, hopefully today or tomorrow, but I've gotta dash now.

[Erg0]

I don't think which of them is more convincing is really at issue here. Lemming's claim would have been an appalling move for scum, I see no reason why he would make it unless he really was a cop. The sole question is whether you find TS's claim believable in its own right, and whether you're prepared to risk lynching a claimed cop on day 1. Despite what you may think, this is not a competition between them.

[Patrick]

Votecount

Lemming1607 (1) -- Setael
Mastermind of Sin (3) -- Flare, The Venerable Zorg, Simenon
White (6) -- Niv, Sir Tornado, Yamahako, JDodge, ZONEACE, Toaster Strudel
booboodafool (1) -- KaleiÐoscøpe
The Venerable Zorg (4) -- Beastly, Mastermind of Sin, Erg0, Aimee
Toaster Strudel (3) -- The Fonz, Lemming1607, Zeppo
Zeppo (1) -- Ether

Not Voting: Flameaxe, booboodafool, White
22 alive, 12 to lynch.

Ok, since several people have told me they would like a deadline, including one outside the thread, I'll place a 10 day deadline on this. You have until the 28th of October to choose your lynch. The time of day will be specified nearer the time. At deadline, 7 votes will be needed to lynch someone.

[Erg0]

Fonz: why are you still voting for TS?

[Erg0]

Actually, while I'm asking questions:

Setael, why are you still voting for Lemming?

[Niv]

Whelp, Lemming comes across to me as being the far more convincing of the two cops. So the question I have to ask myself now is could there be multiple cops? Sure there could. But it's far from guaranteed. I have my suspicions of other players, namely those that I voted for, but I wasn't dead certain about any of them. So for now at least TS seems the best lynch,

Vote: Toaster Strudel

What the Hell?

WE wait till tomorow, and get results from our two cops, then we might linch one of them. also, i think TS should claim results first o-course. hoever this fote for him right now is useless

I don't see why a claim should save TS from being lynched if that claim is not believed. If I thought there was a better lynch than TS I would be voting for that person. I'll post saying why I feel Lemming is more convincing than TS when I get the chance, hopefully today or tomorrow, but I've gotta dash now.

One of my favroite lines "you can belive something 100% and stil be wrong". and is this something we want to risk losing a cop over

[Setael]

Unvote

. I forgot that vote was still left over from the guy I replaced. lemming did look scummy to me after my first read so I didn't bother removing it, but I believe his claim.

Still working on my player analysis. I'm having a tough time with Zorg and Flare. Based on Flare agreeing with zorg's MoS case the way he did I don't think they're both scum, but I think one of them is. Still rereading. But then I saw Zeppo's last few posts and decided to skip over a few and look at zeppo.

At first he's very supportive of the jester idea, trying to convince everyone to not vote Zoneace. Then we have this gem:

I'm not sure if you're scum or not. To be honest, I don't really care. Either you are scum and therefore are a good lynch or you're just such such a bad townie at this point that lynching you in day 1 might actually be beneficial to the town in the long run because you won't confuse matters for the rest of the game.

FoS: Zoneace Either make a good case why I shouldn't vote for you with your next post or I will.

This post is full of fail. You don't lynch townies, even bad townies. And what happened to thinking he's a jester? Did you just drop that because no one supported the idea? Because... that would be scummy. The whole FOS threatening a vote unless he makes a good case why he shouldn't be voted also seems off. If you think he's scum, vote him and then if he presents this amazing case convincing you, change your vote. But oh yeah.... you don't think he's scum. You think he's a bad townie. Plus, if you're scum you probably don't want to be seen throwing your vote around. How very self-aware of you.

Zoneace, how badly you're playing this game continues to flaw me. I stated quite clearly that the reasoning you had given, which I quoted, was that you were victim of a basless bandwagon pushed by scum.

I pointed out that the bandwagon wasn't baseless, Simenon had a good reason to vote for you. I even admitted that the following votes on you were slightly sus but you had to argue your case better than you have. Your failure to do this suggests to me that you are indeed scum. I don't see an OMGUS vote on me is doing you any good.

True to my word Vote: Zoneace

So zeppo was convinced that Zoneace was the victim of a baseless bandwagon being pushed by scum. Changes his mind even though Zoneace's play doesn't change at all. Zeppo then decides that Zoneace's failure to argue his case better than he has is enough reason for a vote. This looks like the most opportunistic of all the Zoneace votes.

If I wanted to just jump on a bandwagon I could have done it a long time ago Zoneace. If by lurking you mean waiting until I had something constructive to add before I posted then yes, I lurked. I posted that I thought you were a jester because I was considering trying to warn people not to vote for you. However I think a jester would surely have been set a post limit.

I also think you dropped this argument because it wasn't popular.

No I don't think the actual votes on zoneace are confusion. But about 90% of the discussion going on at the moment is about zoneace and most of that just people flinging insults at one another. It's taking away from more fruitful discussion if he is innocent and just not defending himself very well. That said my vote on him still stands because I find said lack of defense scummy.

I take JDodge's point though (post 338). I have to admit I have my suspicions of Yamahako for his vote on Zoneace which seemed rather flimsy at the time. However he's far from #1 on my list right now.

He's right that the zoneace arguments are taking away from "more fruitful discussion", but evidently that's what he wants since his next several posts are still about Zoneace.

I read through a couple of Zoneace's other games. He seems almost as obtuse in those as he is in this. I suppose I'll swallow my pride and admit that the main reason I voted for zoneace isn't that he seems that scummy but because he is annoying the tits off me.

That's not a very good reason to vote for someone, even if it is a very tempting one.

So unvote for now. Although I will be thinking carefully about reconsidering if he makes any more moves I consider scummy.

Any

more

moves you consider scummy? That indicates there were moves you found scummy at some point. And yet you just said the only reason you voted him is because he's annoying. I also find it interesting that you never mentioned thinking he's annoying before this point. You always said you thought his lack of defense was scummy. So were you lying about thinking he was scummy before? Or are you lying now that you never thought he was scummy?

Unvote. Yamahako's last few posts have actually been constructive (except his very latest one which is such a Person C vote but meh), I'm not convinced of his scuminess.

I think I'll have to do a reread before I can vote for anyone else. Frankly I haven't got suspicions of anyone right now.

The only people zeppo has really stated suspicions on were zoneace and yamahako, and both were weak and noncommital and he unvoted them before he really pursued this supposed belief they were scum. Reading through, his yamahako push could be seen as pro-town until this point. He backs off, gets all wishy washy and says he isn't suspicious of anyone. Probably because he knows everyone's alignment.

Whelp, Lemming comes across to me as being the far more convincing of the two cops. So the question I have to ask myself now is could there be multiple cops? Sure there could. But it's far from guaranteed. I have my suspicions of other players, namely those that I voted for, but I wasn't dead certain about any of them. So for now at least TS seems the best lynch, Vote: Toaster Strudel

This is the clincher. The only one motivated to lynch a claimed cop before allowing them to do any investigation at all is scum. That combined with the scumminess of everything he ever said about Zoneace and his hesitancy to scum hunt or post suspicions on anyone else and voila, we have a candidate.

vote: zeppo

[Beastly]

I need to catch-up will do when I get a spare few hours, busy working until the weekend but I promise I'll get some analysis done.

[Zeppo]

I find Lemming to be the more convincing because he claimed when I didn't feel there was much pressure to do so. Granted he was at -2 but flameaxe's, zoneace's and JDodge's votes came on very quickly. Given a bit of time someone could easily have unvoted because they weren't happy lynching him. Then he came out with this

In a big game like this, where multiple cops are often encountered, a player is better off discretely

investigating

a cop claimant the next night, rather than outing himself with a counterclaim during the day.

Especially on Day 1 - it's bad enough I made myself a target by playing badly, now you've made yourself a target too, and neither of us has had the opportunity to investigate anyone.

Which looks to me like he's trying to discredit Lemming for claiming under much better reasons than he himself claimed under.

In regards to Setal's posts against me. The zoneace crap I admit that I played very badly and would much rather not bring that up all over again unless I really have to. Let me just say though that at a the time I voted for him I felt suspicious but at after I had calmed down and reread I realised that what I had found suspicious was really more just annoying than anything else.

I dropped the Jester idea because more experienced players said that it was highly unlikely and not worth considering. The bit that really stinks about your post is that you say that I wouldn't want to be throwing my vote around when I have actually voted for several people in this thread. That's how I like to play, I have a vote and I will use it as I consider FoS pretty weak. Perhaps if more people spoke with their vote we wouldn't be deadlined right now, huh?

You say it's not a competition to see which cop I think was scummy but when Lemming claimed to be a cop he in the same post voted for Toaster Strudel. I am throwing my lot behind him because I believe he is a cop and don't believe TS is a cop and I have no one I would rather be voting for. I would much rather see pressure on TS now and see how he holds up than drop all pressure on him just because he said a magic 3 letter word.