Mafia 70: Traditional - Game over!

[Patrick]

Votecount

Bookitty (3) -- KaleiÐoscøpe, Niv, JDodge
Battle Mage (5) -- Elmo, Korejora, Setael, Bookitty, Mastermind of Sin
Mastermind of Sin (2) -- Skruffs, Simenon
Simenon (1) -- Sir Tornado
Korejora (2) -- Ether, Battle Mage

Not voting: ZONEACE
14 alive, 8 to lynch.

[Setael]

Sim, I'd like your thoughts on both Zorg & BM. I can't find where you've really commented on that role once all game.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Unvote
Vote Mastermind of Sin

The votes on Battle Mage seem suspiciously like "kore looks better in comparison", and I have always thought mos' vote on bm would have stopped if it wasn't bm. Just because kore has fancy linky posties does not mean her arguments are particularly compelling.

And I can't say I'm fond of Mos' switch from TS to Battle mage.

A more detailed post later, since I don't think this wagon will drum itself up.

Simenon, you're not making any sense here. I was voting this role well before BM replaced into the game. The bulk of my suspicion was based on actions made by

Zorg

,

NOT

BM. He just hasn't done anything to alleviate those suspicions so far. The hole was already dug, BM's just widening it to give himself more room.

What switch from TS to BM? WTF are you talking about?

[Bookitty]

I think Simenon is referring to this, MoS:

Interesting how some people started to vote for me because I wanted White to claim, and now I am forced to claim, which is not good. Interesting how the White wagon stalled, and my wagon took off like a rocket.

I don't know what I did wrong, but I apologize, whatever I did, I let the town down pretty bad, I have to be out Day 1.

Sadly, I'm a cop.

Most of this post strikes me wrong, and I'm thinking that you're claiming cop just to survive a couple extra days. So

IGMEOY: TS

However, even a counterclaim won't prove TS scum, since we could have multiple cops. I'm willing to give TS a chance for now, but we need to watch her like a hawk. She'll slip eventually if she's scum.

Also notice that she *still* hasn't answered many of the accusations against her.

Followed by your vote for Zorg.


If I'm correct in what he's referring to, apparently he thinks you should have continued voting for a claimed cop without hearing her investigation.

[Simenon]

I'll respond later, but quickly bookitty no that is not what I referring to.

[Bookitty]

Ah. Then disregard, MoS, I'm wrong.

[Bookitty]

Okay. I've been thinking about this game in connection with a reread of some people I have questions for.

Ether, Setael2's case has to do with the fact that I treated Flare and Zorg differently than I treated Mastermind of Sin for what seemed to her to be similar cases (correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that's the main point of her argument). You've argued consistently that Mastermind of Sin was town, and you pushed a case on Flare and on Zorg (and in fact argued that they were scum together) at about the same time as the post Setael2 is using as the basis for her case against me. So, what about this case made you think I was the scum mason? What part of Setael's case did you agree with?

I'd also still like an answer about what you thought of Simenon's post right before my claim, and his unvoting and voting Mastermind of Sin later on, since I believe you said you thought MoS was town.

Battle Mage, I still await the doc tell you said you picked up. I didn't pick it up, and if you're referring to the level of anger at ZONEACE for directing the doc's play, I think I argued about that just about as much as Erg0, and I wasn't the doc.

Simenon, what changed your mind about this?

My experience with unconfirmed masons is that the only use of night talking is to give the mafia a more informed kill/night choice.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Good question, BooKitty.

[Simenon]

I can't find where you've really commented on that role once all game.

Actually, this isn't true. I voted many people for wagoning zorg (and said so), which makes it obvious what my opinions were of the zorg wagon from the start.

I never found a solid difference between zorg and zeppo. They're wagons seemed, and still do seem, identical to me, and anybody who is looking to lynch both seems highly suspect.

Simenon, you're not making any sense here. I was voting this role well before BM replaced into the game. The bulk of my suspicion was based on actions made by Zorg, NOT BM. He just hasn't done anything to alleviate those suspicions so far. The hole was already dug, BM's just widening it to give himself more room.

I'm using the two interchangably here.

What switch from TS to BM? WTF are you talking about?

872-886-894

If I'm correct in what he's referring to, apparently he thinks you should have continued voting for a claimed cop without hearing her investigation.

I should have been more clear the first time I responded to this- yes, that post is a part of it, but I'm more referring to the swish between Zorg and TS. I really can't tell why a townie would go back and forth between the two like that.

Simenon, what changed your mind about this?

When Ether and Flameaxe both doubled on me, which made me realize it couldn't be avoided anymore. I still think unconfirmed masons shouldn't talk much.

[Battle Mage]

Sim, I'd like your thoughts on both Zorg & BM. I can't find where you've really commented on that role once all game.

role?

fishing much?

[Bookitty]

Actually, this isn't true. I voted many people for wagoning zorg (and said so), which makes it obvious what my opinions were of the zorg wagon from the start.

I never found a solid difference between zorg and zeppo. They're wagons seemed, and still do seem, identical to me, and anybody who is looking to lynch both seems highly suspect.

This isn't quite true.

You did vote TheVenerableZorg (TVZ) here:

More later. However:

@ Simenon - hey, with Fonzie's vote switch, you are now one of those suspicious players that are on a 1-2 person wagon!

Yes, you keep reinforcing this for some reason. Have you ever actually considered what I'm actually saying?

I'm very much opposed to the White lynch. Therefore:

Unvote
Vote TVZ

[/b]

That said, it may be a point in your favour. It would depend on Zorg/BM's alignment.

[Battle Mage]

Okay. I've been thinking about this game in connection with a reread of some people I have questions for.

Ether, Setael2's case has to do with the fact that I treated Flare and Zorg differently than I treated Mastermind of Sin for what seemed to her to be similar cases (correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that's the main point of her argument). You've argued consistently that Mastermind of Sin was town, and you pushed a case on Flare and on Zorg (and in fact argued that they were scum together) at about the same time as the post Setael2 is using as the basis for her case against me. So, what about this case made you think I was the scum mason? What part of Setael's case did you agree with?

I'd also still like an answer about what you thought of Simenon's post right before my claim, and his unvoting and voting Mastermind of Sin later on, since I believe you said you thought MoS was town.

Battle Mage, I still await the doc tell you said you picked up. I didn't pick it up, and if you're referring to the level of anger at ZONEACE for directing the doc's play, I think I argued about that just about as much as Erg0, and I wasn't the doc.

Simenon, what changed your mind about this?

My experience with unconfirmed masons is that the only use of night talking is to give the mafia a more informed kill/night choice.

Read Erg0's posts in isolation. Posts 97-103, 105, 106, 107 ALL comment emotively on directing power roles, and in particular the Doctor. It wouldnt take a particularly bright mafioso to pick up on that and consider it NK worthy.

BM

[Bookitty]

He wasn't alone in that, Battle Mage. I was pretty irritated about it myself, and yet I remain alive.

But by that logic, it would argue that ZONEACE's direction of the doctor actually outed that role. Do you believe that to be true?

[Simenon]

This isn't quite true.

That was in opposition to the White lynch, but I see your point. This has been a long, boring game, and I'm prone to forgetting my own actions.

Regardless, that makes Setael's comment utter bullshit, if you'd excuse the language.

[Battle Mage]

Good reason Number 1: We wouldnt waste everyone's fucking time gradually building up a wagon which will inevitable be shaken by the fact that it is on a mason, when in fact, a claim could have come much sooner.
Think before you speak pl0x.

Why would it inevitably be shaken by a mason claim? Wasn't it you who said we should "keep an eye on the masons as much, if not MORE THAN anyone else"? Masons are only confirmed as masons, not town.

Yes, but apparently some people did not want to rush into a lynch of a mason, when the odds of hitting scum elsewhere were perhaps better, and there was more to discuss. But dont take my word for it. Look at the wagon itself.

I also still don't see why the wagon was useless in terms of information. Even if don't know Bookitty's alignment, we've seen a lot of people's reactions to the wagon, which could be useful later.

Did i say it was useless? I said it wasted time, which in practical terms is perfectly true.

According to THE RULES, votes need to be bold to be counted. Whether or not Patrick chose to make an exception on the premise that he suspected you actually intended to make a vote, is irrelevant. The fact was, your vote was not valid, and from your perspective at least, it ought not to have been counted. Hence i drew my conclusion from that fact.

According to the rules, the votes have to be in the form "vote: person". I do not see the word "bold" there, and to me, the fact that the sample is bolded means you are supposed to use BBcode, so that your vote stands out enough for the mod to find it more easily. So from my perspective, it ought to have been counted. And the fact that Patrick counted my vote is VERY relevant, since that was your point:

(and by legitimate, i mean a vote that actually counts towards the votecount.)

Incorrect. I'd say that the rules specify that votes must be in a Bold format. Granted, it is open to interpretation, but because of this, my original point is still valid-the rules by no means confirmed that vote as acceptable, and it is well possible that there was intent behind that lack of using the proper method on

2

occassions.

See what i mean about your attitude? Have you ever come across the word 'tact' before?

The pot calls the kettle black!

Lol.

I suggest you look it up, because all im getting from you atm is extreme OMGUSsy vibes, which at best are clouding a townies judgement, and at worst, forcing a scum onto the defensive in order to save face.

"OMGUSsy vibes"? Battle Mage, I voted you, presented a case against you, and then you dodged around it and voted me back when I didn't stand for it. If anyone is pulling an OMGUS, it can only be you.

Yes OMGUSsy vibes. You tried to make a case on me, then i bit back, and you felt you had little choice but to keep fighting back. Thats what i mean by OMGUSsy vibes. When you attack someone simply because they are putting pressure on you. Its a defence mechanism. If you were town, you would ignore your dislike of me as an individual, and read your case on me again, and my responses. Then list what you have, and ill address it.

Will respond to the rest in a bit.

BM

[Setael]

I never found a solid difference between zorg and zeppo. They're wagons seemed, and still do seem, identical to me, and anybody who is looking to lynch both seems highly suspect.

I don't think your post history supports this statement. A couple times you asked why when someone voted for Zorg but as for zeppo:

The Zeppo wagon is incredibly dumb.

The people on the wagon are almost entirely terrible and Zeppo has done too many town things to be scum in my mind right now.

Behold!

Zeppo (6) -- Ether, Setael,

Mastermind of Sin, JDodge, Niv, Flameaxe

Bold implying those players are scum.

So... if you never saw a difference between the two, why were you so much more vocally opposed to the Zeppo wagon? And why did you (as Bookitty pointed out) vote Zorg? My point (which still stands, regardless of what you say) is you seemed to avoid commenting on the Zorg wagon while being REALLY vocal about others. The fact that you voted Zorg doesn't prove me wrong, it just proves that you're a liar. (Or forgetful because you're "bored" as you said).

Sim, I'd like your thoughts on both Zorg & BM. I can't find where you've really commented on that role once all game.

role?

fishing much?

That's a pretty scummy attempt at accusing me of role fishing BM. How else would you prefer I refer to you and Zorg collectively? You have the same role since you replaced him, right? So remind me why I can't say "that role?"

[Simenon]

So... if you never saw a difference between the two, why were you so much more vocally opposed to the Zeppo wagon?

Zeppo was the guy who got lynched; his wagon was more relevant for me to comment on.

[Sir Tornado]

Yes OMGUSsy vibes. You tried to make a case on me,

then i bit back

, and you felt you had little choice but to keep fighting back. Thats what i mean by OMGUSsy vibes.

When you attack someone simply because they are putting pressure on you

. Its a defence mechanism.

If you were town, you would ignore your dislike of me as an individual

, and read your case on me again, and my responses. Then list what you have, and ill address it.

Vote Battle Mage

I think this puts him on -2.

[Sir Tornado]

Behold!

Zeppo (6) -- Ether, Setael,

Mastermind of Sin, JDodge, Niv, Flameaxe

Bold implying those players are scum.

I don't get this... Simenon knew Flameaxe and Niv were both masons.

[Simenon]

Yes, but both were on the wagon, and it would be rather revealing if I hadn't also bolded them. I would be asked about that.

[JDodge]

hrmmm

unvote, vote: battle mage

[Patrick]

Votecount

Bookitty (2) -- KaleiÐoscøpe, Niv
Battle Mage (7) -- Elmo, Korejora, Setael, Bookitty, Mastermind of Sin, Sir Tornado, JDodge
Mastermind of Sin (2) -- Skruffs, Simenon
Korejora (2) -- Ether, Battle Mage

Not voting: ZONEACE
14 alive, 8 to lynch.

[Setael]

Zeppo was the guy who got lynched; his wagon was more relevant for me to comment on.

The comments I am talking about were all made before Zeppo was lynched though, so how can this be a valid reason/excuse?

BM, time to claim.

[Bookitty]

No one hammer. This from the V/LA thread:

LIMITED ACCESS! My internet has f***ed up due to some crazy guy coming round my house and messing about with my modem. Thats not a euphemism btw. May not be able to post actively in the meantime till it is fixed.

BM

(censoring mine)

Please don't hammer until he has a chance to claim.

[Bookitty]

Um, never mind. I guess he's posted here since then.