California Trilogy - Dantès in Fresno (Game Over!)

[LoudmouthLee]

I am here, but I will not be around until late monday. I hope that's not an inconvienence.

[LoudmouthLee]

Okay. Time for some typical vintage LML stuff. You may call them null tells, you may call them typical LML bluster, but the following things caught my attention. Prepare yourself. LML has turned on the charms.

Oman, iocaine powder doesn't have a smell.

Mod

, I assume that the wording for Rule 5 means that no "Bah" posts are allowed?

Please see the Post Content section of the rules regarding asking questions of the Mod.

The wording of rule 5 means that no "Bah" posts are allowed, correct. This is now explicitly stated. - Mod

I find it

very

interesting that Zindie felt a need for clarification on this point. That question makes me very uneasy. Quite like Zindy is looking for a way to seem more townlike. It's completely a hunch, but it's definately good enough for a D1 initial vote.

Dinner better be good.

I should like to stir the pot a bit to start things off.

• Vote: Adele
  , xyzzy, foolinc, logicticus, LoudmouthLee, No lynch, Mgm

Take no offense if your name is on that list, it is on there simply because I either am not familiar with your playstyle or, perhaps, am interested in hearing from you all first.

As I understand the rules (And I hope it is allowable to discuss this here, it seems as such) only Adele is being voted for, with a preferential treatment to lynch other people on that list.

Cool.

Scruffs hit the scum meter with this post, but for the reason of the fact that, in his initial vote, he listed he would rather lynch "NO LYNCH" over "MGM". He then goes back to saying he has neither played with or wants to hear from them. Yet, by his initial vote,

he has NO desire to hear from MGM

Clearly, only a foul scumbag, cursed by the powers that be (read: mith) into being a god-forsaken, evil semblance of a man, would, at this point in the game, use Condorcet voting.

Confirm Vote: Skruffs

I plan on using the Condorcet voting method here, does THAT make me scum, too?

I don't like Skruffs' use of the system so early. Seems he wants LOTS of people lynched (plus I'm not on the list ) Skruffs why is no lynch before MGM?

Mgm is metagaming with lots of passion. Obv scum.

Unvote Vote Skruffs

Adele, mgm

I happen to like Oman's reasoning here (as I am reading the thread and posting at the same time, but I'm a little concerned as to WHY scruffs is not on his list.

@Oman - Why not throw a vote (or at least a list position?) onto scruffs?

MoS's odd diceroll list is odd. I am unsure, at this time, if it is scummy.

Vote: Zindaras

, Skruffs, Mgm

Tags corrected. Please use bold tags only for voting and unvoting. - Mod

[LoudmouthLee]

I don't ever like people who "say" that random.org affected their diceroll. I feel much more relaxed when people use the dice function (as it cannot be editied, and you're aware of that.) Now, I find people can "fake" random.org or "dicerolls" as such. How did you handle repeat rolls? Especially when you had only 2 or 3 names left? Did you keep on rolling? over and over again? How long did this process take you?

I am questioning if your random votes were truly arbitrary.

[LoudmouthLee]

EBWOP:

I don't ever like people who say that random.org affected their random vote. Since there is no way for us to know their rationale of random voting, I find it odd that you would go out of your way to make us "believe" that it was a random opening vote.

[LoudmouthLee]

I believe you misunderstood my intentions, LML. The reasons for voting those people are because EITHER I haven't played with them OR I would like to hear from them.

MGM is up there because I have never played with him. However, I have played in some of his games, so I have a sense of his style. You will note he is ABOVE all other players that were not listed, and BELOW no-lynch, which makes him MORE suspicious than other players in my eyes. I am not playing favoritism with him. If you were going to accuse me of favoritism, you would probably be better off picking on why I *did not* list some people. You didn't. You apparently have not thought very much about the actual mechanics of the Condorcet method.

Lastly, your second mis representation : OMAN IS VOTING ME. Are you asking for him to put me on his list TWICE?


I do have a dilemma to posit, now, thanks to LoudMouthLee's flailing about:
Gracious Mod
If someone doesn't care who gets lynched, as long as someone does, how would they represent that? Similarly, how would players that we absolutely don't want lynched (for example, a mason buddy, or a 'cleared' townie, etc) be represented in that system? Can we put "Everyone else, No lynch" as a list?

I messed up on Oman. I must have been reading a different line than his, question withdrawn, Oman. (I already said I didn't suspect him at this point)

Scruffs, I hate the fact that you don't understand anything. I will try to explain this again:

If you are making a list of votes, by you putting someone AFTER no lynch means, to me, you would rather NO ONE get lynched than THAT person. It seems INCREDIBLY off, especially at this point in the game.

@ Scruffs, why did you put No Lynch in your voting list, then?

Tags removed in quoted material. - Mod

[LoudmouthLee]

Third misrepresentation - MOS's system was similar to drawing names out of a bag. When a number is rolled, he rolles a dice with one less side to represent the pool-1 situation. Repeat as needed.

If you feel that MOS was not really random-rolling, then why do you think he placed everyone in that order?

How is that a misrepresentation? I explained myself. Were you there, scruffs, when MoS rolled his dice?

[LoudmouthLee]

Lets talk about my "misrepresentations"

He portrayed MOS's vote in a way that was not true. That is a misrepresentation.

How do you know this? How did you know this? MoS has since explaind his method, and unless YOU KNOW SOMETHING that we all don't, this was not a misrepresentation.

He asked Oman why he didn't vote for me, when Oman had. That is a misrepresentation.

I made a slight mistake. To call that a misrepresentation is certainly dumb. Something "easily tracable" like that must be a mistake. That seems fairly obvious to me (and should the town).

And the chaff he's spewing about me about putting MGM after no lynch, that is also a misrepresentation.

You make absolutely NO sense, Scruffs! Let me ask you again, and let me put in Italics.

Would you rather NOT LYNCH ANYONE than lynch MGM? Do you seriously think that a NO LYNCH is acceptable at this point in the game? Why did you choose to include it in your vote?

I didn't include it (and if you find me bloodthirsty, you need to check your mafia theory) and I won't include it unless it is MATHEMATICALLY RELEVANT to (Or, if we, by CHANCE, have a CONFIRMED INNOCENT, I would include NO LYNCH and then LEAVE THAT PERSON'S NAME OFF THE LIST).

Why would you RATHER a no lynch to a lynch of MGM (that is in STONE, according to your voting!)

This is NOT OMGUS (as he says his is. Mine is based on his PLAY)

Vote: Scruffs, Zindaras, Mgm

Broken tag removed. - Mod

[LoudmouthLee]

Erm, I'm more interested in finding out why I'm even on so many lists to start with even if it's at the end. I don't remember doing anything suspicious that's worth voting me.

Only speaking for myself, you are on my list solely for the way that Scruffs has you listed. You are my 3rd choice to be listed. I have simply voted for you because Scruffs' illogical charms have totally escaped me right now.

I want to see if there's a link between you and him.

Unvote, Vote: Scruffs

, Zindaras, MGM

Tags corrected. Please use bold tags only for voting and unvoting. - Mod

[LoudmouthLee]

Why wouldn't we use it? It's a lot like a vote with a handful of FOS... I think it should be employed as soon as you want to start ranking people you think might be acting scummy...

So having said that:

vote: Skruff

, PlaysWithSquirrels, LoudMouthLee

I would love to know why I am now on your list, especially we're voting for the same person.

Is Jeep exhibiting a scumtell?

Tags corrected in quoted material. - Mod

[LoudmouthLee]

Fourth misrepresentation - My voting for MGM after no-lynch is *not* in stone. If you had read the last post, I asked if you wanted me to put MGM in front of no-lynch. I said I Would completely fine with doing that - if you wanted me to. How does that equate to "It's in stone"? You are gerry-mandering, now.

If you're trying to tell me that I can't look at voting patterns to discuss guilt or innocence, then what's the point of playing mafia? it has been discussed that I have not made ANY misrepresentations. So Scruffs, I would appreciate that you back down, and I'm going to explain why.

Scruffs acted this same exact way to me in a recently completed game. He continually attacked me for absolutely no reason, giving unsound logic and really awful points. Even though the town KNEW all of his points were awful and his logic lacking, I continued, out of a unrequited need, to respond to him. How did it end? Me, getting lynched, as an innocent.

The fact that I'm appearing in so many lists right now is reminicent of that game. It's angering me greatly.

[LoudmouthLee]

(Seriously, MOS, why not just say it's random, rather than that whole easily-fakeable demo??? There is no level on which I get that, and it even seems a slight "honestly, guys, I'm honest!" move, you know?)

Are you saying that you agree with me? That was the point that I was making exactly. I don't understand your reason for voting me.

[LoudmouthLee]

MoS is being metascummy, LmL was (in my opinion) defending him. I'm choosing to make a big deal out of it.

I was

attacking

him for being metascummy. I questioned the validity of his dicerolls.

God, Adele. Please read those posts again.

[LoudmouthLee]

(sigh)

@Thesp - I voiced my opinion on Zin's opening post and MoS's opening post. I want to know WHY you find the Scruffs wagon uninteresting. Scruffs and I have a history, as it seems, and it's not a positive one. His logic is appaling, and I take serious umbrage with the fact that you find my anger to be "manufactured."

I have merely pointed out what I have found interesting and scummy thus far. God. I feel like if I would just shut my mouth and let people post scummy type things, I would be much better off.

Let's look at the 4 people who have their votes on me:

Adele - Rationale: Disagrees with my stance on random voting.
Scruffs - Rationale: OMGUS coupled with "misrepresentations that are not misrepresentations".
Zinadras - Radionale: Modified OMGUS (as I found his Bah opening post to be slightly scummy, and it was good as an opening post)

and you, Thesp.

God. I'm frustrated.

[LoudmouthLee]

I've seen your manufactured anger before, it resonates with what I'm seeing right now. If you take serious umbrage at someone doubting your veracity in a game where players are actively trying to discern which players are being deceptive, perhaps this game is not for you, or stepping back for a deep breath would be worthwhile.

Have you looked at C&H? Glork and Thok said the same thing there (manufactured anger), and a lot of it stemmed from Scruffs.

Maybe this is a carryover. Hell if I know.

Unvote.

Let me reread the damn game.

Votes/Unvotes not appearing at the bottom of the post are not counted. Tags removed. - Mod

[LoudmouthLee]

Why go to that effort unless you have something to hide?
Heck if you had just voted alphabetically it would've taken much less effort, been about as random, and had about the same impact on the game in terms of voting(which is to say pretty much none at all since random votes are kinda worthless and I doubt we'll move into the stage where Condorcet actually plays out on day one)

Pooky. I really appreciate this post, as it encapsulates everything I believe in in regards to MoS's opening post.

It looks absoluteloy contrived. I agree with it.

Scruffs, I am listing you on my condorset voting. I hope you see this as good faith. (I still think you're scummy, but that may just be your playstyle)

Vote: MoS

, Adele, Zinadras, Scruffs, [Jeep, MGM, Xyzzy]

[LoudmouthLee]

Yay thesp. ANd, because of your post, yay pooky. I snickered at it.
I was very impressed with THesp's play in Meadows of Sorrow and I feel he is a great player who will bring a lot to this game. For all the reasons you said above, too, minus the ""Are you trying to get into his good graces with a generic contentless message like "yay thesp"?" part. I'm not a butt kisser. (See former discussion with lml re: friendships nad mafia, playing of)

God this post scares the ever-living crap out of me.

Scruffs decides that, since Thesp is a good player, we should "Yay Thesp!" because he "has a lot to bring?"

What would happen if Thesp was scum, Scruffs? I don't understand this post at all, and this is not a misrepresentation, Scruffs. Could you explain it to me?

Unvote, Vote: Scruffs

, MoS, Zindaras, MGM, PWS, Xyzzy

Tag corrected. Please use bold tags only for voting and unvoting. - Mod

[LoudmouthLee]

Scruffs decides that, since Thesp is a good player, we should "Yay Thesp!" because he "has a lot to bring?"

What would happen if Thesp was scum, Scruffs?

Is there any immediate reason to assume Thesp is scum, because if there isn't I don't see the problem here.

You don't see a problem with inherently singing someone's praises just because who they are?

Everyone in this game has the same chances of being scum. To say "Yay Thesp! You have a lot to bring to the table here!" basically means, to me, that Scruffs is giving some sort of power to thesp... The feeling of Gospel.

It rubs me the wrong way. MGM, I'm kinda suprised it doesn't make you uneasy.

[LoudmouthLee]

@Thesp:

You seem very intent on having me swing. For the purpose of "defending myself", I will do my best to answer all of your points in the order that you gave them.

Clarification on a "bah" post to look more townie? I really, really don't see it - this feels contrived/opposite of sensical.

Call me a conspiracy theorist, but someone who wants clarification on a "Bah" post is someone who wants the town to ultimately think that they will be nightkilled, and will be "in need" of a Bah! Post. I don't know if that makes sense, but to me, anyone who asks for clarification of rules in thread (IE: Mod, I need clarification of my role) is generally scum. I have used this scumtell in scumchat numerous times, and I feel it's pertinent.

MoS insists on making his first votes random and insignificant.

I wanted to know WHY he felt the need to go and make such a extravagant to-do over it. Why not just "random vote- blah blah blah"? Instead, I feel that MoS "wanted us to definately know" his vote was random. It looked forced. Which, of course, was something you accuse me of later.

I'm not sure this analogy can hold, and this "anger" feels contrived as well.

If someone misattributed you to being "misrepresentful", you would be ALL over them too. Stop playing the holier than thou card. It's been discussed in this thread that, in turn, I wasn't misrepresenting anyone. Skruff's inability, at that time, to see that made me lose my temper. I am, after all, LoudmouthLee.

I've seen your manufactured anger before, it resonates with what I'm seeing right now. If you take serious umbrage at someone doubting your veracity in a game where players are actively trying to discern which players are being deceptive, perhaps this game is not for you, or stepping back for a deep breath would be worthwhile.

High horse sir? Step down.

I hate being attacked with faulty logic. I fight to the bitter end when i feel that a case is being manufactured with no basis to the truth. I am choosing to try to play the calm, cool and collected card right now rather than the guns-a-blazing typical LmL style. I would also appreciate you not talking down to me. I'm no newbie, Thesp.

What is C&H? Do you think your anger here stems from Skruffs? (I'm really not seeing the connection, aside from the fact you were voting for Skruffs.)

So, you were told what C&H was. Did you look at it? Did you see the correlations? Did you see the LmL vs. Skruffs stuff there? Or did you promptly ignore it?

Still very happy with my vote on LmL.

As much as I enjoy the cubs bandwagon, I'd rather see LmL swing.

Still want LmL to swing.

Why? Are you afraid I'm going to catch you? Are you afraid that I'm going to call you on:

a) Making a case on me that really isn't a case at all?
b) Not adding anything to the conversation besides a throwback to IS?
or is it...
c) You just don't have anything better to do?

You're BETTER than this, Thesp.

FoS: Thesp

Tags removed. Please use bold tags only for voting and unvoting. - Mod

[LoudmouthLee]

You're acting like you're at Lynch-1, Lee. I think you're being overaggressive here.

Have you ever known me to be NOT overaggressive?

[LoudmouthLee]

If necessary, I will claim.

[LoudmouthLee]

What felt forced, that he wanted it to look random, or the random vote in the first place? Also, I'm not sure what that last sentence is doing there - are you adding credence to my concern, or mocking your own (re: "looking forced")?

You said that my anger was forced. I said MoS's post was forced.

This is absurd. It doesn't come to mind to conclude that someone thinks they'll be nightkilled if they're asking about a "Bah!" post, and therefore more absurd that such a post would be faking an impression that doesn't come to mind. I think you're making it up.

If I didn't believe it, why would I say it? This makes NO sense. I feel that clarification posts are SCUMMY.

I will explain again: People who ask for clarification in thread,

IMHO

are trying to appear more townie when they are really not.

This is my opinion. I have seen this scumtell in action. When this game is over, ask CrashTextDummy about the chat game in which I cited this tell, voted him relentlessly for it, and guess what? He was scum.

I'm uncertain how you have such divination powers. ("You would have acted like Z" arguments are always very problematic - and troublesome.)

I don't. I get angry (need proof?) when I get bandwagoned / mislynched / etc. as pro-town. I det downright insulting and nasty. I'm trying to break that habit. I know many excellent players who do the same thing.

I'm terribly confused here. Can you tell me if you're being calm, cool and collected, or being overaggressive?

I started aggressive, tried to calm down, failed, and now I really don't care how I appear. I would love for you to MAKE A CASE on me, Thesp. THERE IS NOTHING.

[LoudmouthLee]

Oh. This recent two families talk is absolutely interesting:

Has there been any nightkills at all? Did I miss a whole cycle? How can we begin even discussing the amounts of families right now when we have no information to go on?

[LoudmouthLee]

To suggest that LoudmouthLee is being voted for "being himself" is a gross oversimplification.

No. It's not. There still hasn't even been a remotely decent case on me. So far, you're voting me because:

-You dont agree with the scumtell I cited (and, while I'm at it, Thesp, do you think Zin's playing a pro-town game?)

-You think that my anger at Scruffs is manufactured.

-You think I'm being too aggressive.

(nods) You have one kickass case.

[LoudmouthLee]

I suspect we've entered the slapfight phase of the argument, where we go, "Yes it is"/"No it isn't"/"Yes it is"/"No it isn't". I'm a little uncertain as to where to go after that

Well...

Can we try to find scum now? Instead of concentrating on splitting hairs? I am not scum.

If you really think I'm scum, I will try to show you I'm not. I think we need to look harder to find scum. If we continue to bicker like this, I'll get mislynched, and then the tide will turn to you. If you're pro-town (and our argument seems to be of two pro-town players), it will turn to you.

I don't want the town to be down 2 pro-town players off the bat. I know I'm pro-town (duh.) but I think you are too, Thesp.

I humbly request the removal of votes from my name. I do not want to be deadline lynched because of a bunch of egos clashing at the same time. I am so trying to be a team player here. I want to find scum. I have been too busy being confrontational and reactive.

Pending a reread...

Unvote. Vote: Cubsfan

[LoudmouthLee]

I don't think I'm going to get a long enough post in on time besides thios post (as I will be at at my 10pin bowling league in the AM and a Wedding all friggin day after that tomorrow), the next time I will check the thread will be Monday at 8:00am EST. I just do not want to forget to do this.

I cannot wait to respond to the MGM/CES discussion.

From most suspicious to least suspicious. first bracketed grouping being little to no read on, second bracked grouping seems more pro-town to me. CES seems most pro-town to me.

Vote: BattleMage / Jeep

, Cubsfan, Zindaras, MGM, Skruffs, Adele, Xyzzy, Thesp, [foolinc, pooky, tally, Tamuz, IH, Logictius, Dani Banani ], [DP, Gaspar, VitR], CES

[LoudmouthLee]

Oh wait. rereading deadline time, I'll get one or two more posts in.

[LoudmouthLee]

Well, since I cannot get blood from a stone:

Name: Mercédès

Role Type: Searching Townie

If you read the damn book, you'll be able to guess who I am searching for. Now, unvote me before you mislynch me.

If you know who you are, then shush your mouth. No reason for two power roles to die tonight.

[LoudmouthLee]

Vote: MGM, Cubsfan, Zindaras, Skruffs, Adele, Xyzzy, Thesp, [foolinc, pooky, tally, Tamuz, IH, Logictius, Dani Banani ], [DP, Gaspar, VitR], CES, BattleMage / Jeep

[LoudmouthLee]

Unvote

Vote: MGM

, Cubsfan, Zindaras, Skruffs, Adele, Xyzzy, Thesp, [foolinc, pooky, tally, Tamuz, IH, Logictius, Dani Banani ], [DP, Gaspar, VitR], CES, BattleMage / Jeep

[LoudmouthLee]

I also have a meta-read on IH as scum as well. Truth be told.

[LoudmouthLee]

Unvote

Vote: Cubsfan

, Xyzzy, MGM, Zindaras, Skruffs, Adele, Thesp, [foolinc, pooky, tally, Tamuz, IH, Logictius, Dani Banani ], [DP, Gaspar, VitR], CES, BattleMage / Jeep

[LoudmouthLee]

I don't really agree with Glork regarding much, but I feel like a dick moving his Condorcet this close to deadline, considering how much more involved he is than me, and we still haven't figured out a method to sort our votes. It's mostly a moot point anyway, considering I'm quite happy with a LML lynch, and that looks like what's happening here.

have you READ my claim, Primate? Or are you just choosing to ignore it?

[LoudmouthLee]

Damn lazy player, Primate. READ MY ROLECLAIM.

[LoudmouthLee]

P: I missed the claim. ugh. It's annoying that we don't have a chance for people to possibly counterclaim, but claims like that are retarded in scums hands regardless. I don't think Cubs is that likely to be scum though.

This seems incredibly scummy.

Why wouldn't there be a chance for people to counterclaim, if I were lying about my role (which i am not)? We're in D1, Primate. They can easily COUNTERCLAIM D2, right?

It seems obvious to me that you want there to still be a significant amount of heat on me in regards to my claim. Why is that?

Unvote
Vote: Cubsfan

, Gaspar, Xyzzy, MGM, Zindaras, Skruffs, Adele, Thesp, [foolinc, pooky, tally, Tamuz, IH, Logictius, Dani Banani ], [DP, VitR], CES, BattleMage / Jeep

[LoudmouthLee]

I moved Xyzzy up on my list based on your hunch. Ever since that opening opst of yours, I have found you to be somewhat protown. My vote for Cubs is somewhat out of self preservation.

Zin, could you please outline your case on Xyzzy for me? This way, if I find it as plausable as you, I'll switch my vote.

As of right now, my vote for Cubs makes me the non-corndorcet winner. Which, of course, keep the town from lynching me. Once there are other unvotes (what are we all waiting for?), I'll quickly reread the thread and all of the outlined cases.

I find Gaspar to be moving up my scumlist pronto.

[LoudmouthLee]

(For all intents and purposes, since we are truly dealing with two different players, I hereby request the following:

Gaspar: Please state at the beginning of each of your posts who it is we're talking to.

Players: If you are directing a question or comment at Gaspar, please state which head of the twoheaded monster you are asking.. for instance: Glorkspar or Primspar

@Primspar: What makes you think that Cubs is innocent? You seem to have a level of feeling on this that makes me uncomfortable.

[LoudmouthLee]

Resposted from 530 since it has become painfully obvious that we have skimmers playing this game.

Well, since I cannot get blood from a stone:

Name: Mercédès
Role Type: Searching Townie

If you read the damn book, you'll be able to guess who I am searching for. Now, unvote me before you mislynch me.

If you know who you are, then shush your mouth. No reason for two power roles to die tonight.

[LoudmouthLee]

hmm. I'd hate to lynch a power role day 1. As Cubsfan is current concordet leader, its probably better that we dont lynch atall, so Unvote.

Really?

I mean.. REALLY?

What do you know about Cubs's alignment?

[LoudmouthLee]

2) It assumes that Skruffs is a townie. This is most alarming for the people who first attacked Skruffs and then went after Cubs for defending Skruffs. That is one of the reasons that we came to suspect you as one of our top choices, LmL. I got a very distinct "I'm going to attack Skruffs while his wagon is big, but as it's fading, Cubs is becoming the chic second option, so I'll switch there."

Do you believe that a no lynch is better than a cubsfan lynch?

[LoudmouthLee]

I have already told the town.. My vote on him is twofold.

#1) I want a lynch today for information.
#2) I do not want to be lynched myself.

I don't exactly "love" the case on him besides the "Scruffs being Scruffs" and "LML being LML but worthy of a vote anyway"

[LoudmouthLee]

Well, Zin. According to the most recent vote count... there are two pairwise electors AHEAD of xyzzy, and only two.

One of them is cubsfan. The other? Me.

You need to get others to not only move xyzzy up, but to move the both of us down. Something about xyzzy's posts do not allow my to view them by author at work (damn blocker)

[LoudmouthLee]

I can't read Xyzzy's posts from work. After reading Glork's PBPA, I'm willing to shake things up. I mean, one extra pairwise vote helps, right?

Unvote

Xyzzy,

Vote: Cubsfan

, MGM, Zindaras, Skruffs, Adele, Thesp, Gaspar [foolinc, pooky, tally, Tamuz, IH, Logictius, Dani Banani ], [DP, VitR], CES, BattleMage / Jeep

[LoudmouthLee]

[A] 4 votes (20.0%)

11 votes (55.0%)
[NP] 5 votes (25.0%)

In 4 places, people have Xyzzy over Cubsfan. Now 5. 11 people have Cubs over Xyzzy. Now 10.

This is an uphill battle to say the least.

In other words, for Xyzzy to be the new condorcet winner, 3 people must move Xyzzy ahead of Cubsfan.

[LoudmouthLee]

thats all well and good LML, but why the hell would we want to lynch Xyzzy over Cubs? rofl.

God, you're awful.

Is there anyone you WANT to lynch?

[LoudmouthLee]

activity much?

There's really only one thing that strikes me so far this game.

I don't ever like people who "say" that random.org affected their diceroll. I feel much more relaxed when people use the dice function (as it cannot be editied, and you're aware of that.) Now, I find people can "fake" random.org or "dicerolls" as such. How did you handle repeat rolls? Especially when you had only 2 or 3 names left? Did you keep on rolling? over and over again? How long did this process take you?

I am questioning if your random votes were truly arbitrary.

Wow, I feel pretty much the opposite. What's the point of truly random votes, and especially of proven random votes? The accusation of divestment of responsibility is something I very much agree with. Prior to this trend of dice-tags (even if this is an imaginary time period), a "random" vote meant "vote that I am claiming is random, but could possibly be merely arbitrary, or even- ooh! - malicious". When a few of these stacked up on someone, the question as to whether there are scumzars on the wagon, either to harm or (yay wifom) clear someone is a kickstart for discussion.

(Seriously, MOS, why not just say it's random, rather than that whole easily-fakeable demo??? There is no level on which I get that, and it even seems a slight "honestly, guys, I'm honest!" move, you know?)

For wilfully ignoring this and saying instead that people should just tick the "good, safe townie" boxes rather than do anything productive... yeah.

Vote: LoudmouthLee

, Mastermind of Sin.

I never liked this. I feel that her vote on me was a policy vote and had nothing to do with any of my posts. She has left her vote on me since then.

(Seriously, MOS, why not just say it's random, rather than that whole easily-fakeable demo??? There is no level on which I get that, and it even seems a slight "honestly, guys, I'm honest!" move, you know?)

Are you saying that you agree with me? That was the point that I was making exactly. I don't understand your reason for voting me.

My belief: dice-tags and proven-random votes have no place, while arbitrary and possibly-random votes have a place.

I don't ever like people who "say" that random.org affected their diceroll. I feel much more relaxed when people use the dice function (as it cannot be editied, and you're aware of that.)

Your belief: the opposite (this may simply be my delusion of what you're saying; if so, please clarify).

I've decided to coin a term today.
Metascummy (Adj)
definition: behaviour that is unhelpful to the town but defended as supposedly unscummy due to the user's universal use of the tactic.

MoS is being metascummy, LmL was (in my opinion) defending him. I'm choosing to make a big deal out of it.

Once more: my problem isn't that MoS didn't use the dice tags - he couldn't. It's not that he did - he didn't. It's that he pseudo-used it, and tried to "prove" that he had (see his later explanation and overuse of the term "retarded" for further details).

Whereas I feel like I was ATTACKING MoS for it, not defending him. I call bullpoop.

I was

attacking

him for being metascummy. I questioned the validity of his dicerolls.

God, Adele. Please read those posts again.

Then we

do

disagree. Not that MoS is weird - we seem to agree there - but on whether dice tags are good or bad. I maintain that they are bad (that is, they might have a place in-game, but not in the random-voting stage). You appear to prefer them to people saying they used random.org - and I personally would rather people switched to saying "arb vote" than maintain any pretence of or (worse)

actual

randomness in their initial vote.

but thank you for using "metascummy"

Tag fixed. - Mod

But here, She basically says we disagree on the use of dicetags.. and we obviously DO NOT have dicetags in this game.

So, why is she voting for me again? It's manufactured.. since there was a rather ignorant growing bandwagon on me.

LML's not being given any credits here, Skruffs - he's actually having a relatively tough time of things according to the Votecount. I can say at least one of those votes was not placed with any kind of eye to lynching, but nontheless; he's not feeling very comfortable right now.

Whereas I, who've probably not contributed much of anything, seem to be mostly slightly trusted. Things are random at this stage - just try to play tight and things'll even out.

See what I did in that last paragraph there, talking you you like a newbie?
Yeah, that was fun.

And seriously, come the weekend I'll be able to contribute as much as I've been wanting to so far (downside of having a "real" job).

This feels like a blantant coaching post and seems scummy to me. It's not even if skrffs is scum or not. I could make cases regardless of Skruff's alignment that Adele is scum posting as such.

-Coaching or Mafia Buddying Up.

Towards the end is a lot of handshake posts (Hey, I agree with you.. let's have lunch)

I guess I would be very thrilled with an Adele lynch.

[LoudmouthLee]

I will attempt to have a post before deadline. = \

Let it be known that IH, who I believe is scummy, refused to unvote me with his post.

[LoudmouthLee]

I'm the count of Monte Cristo. Twice during the game I have the power to challenge another player to a duel (which they must accept). If that player turns out to be scum I kill them but if they're town I guess I allow them to kill me. Pro-town.

Just for the sake of defending myself before this even comes up:

I don't think Cubs's PM says what happens if they aren't scum. His operative word here was guess. I didn't die, so that's a positive.

A real person, presumably, a billionaire who's holdings are based out of Beverly Hills, California. I'm not sure how close to Fresno that is, but at least we are starting to get a feel for the game's layout. Both characters so far dead are 'real people' - Pierre Picaud was the basis for the original story - which might explain why cubs thought he was the count of monte cristo. What I am saying is that he may not have been intentionally lying.

I know that if I would get a role that I was unfamiliar with, I would look him up. What's even dumber about Cubs's play is obvious. It was a head scratcher, and I will, at the end of this game, absolutely LACE into Cubsfan.

The correct lynch today is XYZZY. Especially with the fact that Cubs only lost to Xyzzy by 1 vote.

I am also going to go back over endday 1 to see if anyone COULD have unvoted cubs, but didn't.

Vote: Xyzzy

, Adele, IH

[LoudmouthLee]

That is particularly damning for MGM. He is the only voter on Cubsfan who had a chance AFTER Mith posted duel results to change their vote FROM cubsfan to someone else.

Cubsfan was obv. protown (as I do not believe that that type of power would every be attributed to scum). Yet, you just asked him WHY he challenged me and you DID NOT chnage your vote.

unvote.
Vote: Xyzzy

, MGM, Adele, IH

Tags corrected. Please use bold tags only for voting and unvoting. - Mod

[LoudmouthLee]

The following things strike me as true. Please pardon my speculation. I feel that looking at deaths would be rather beneficial for the town.

BM looks to me to be a "mafia" kill. BM claimed a cop type role, and especially with the Xyzzy death (as an innocent), I highly doubt that Xyzzy was a mafia kill.

Xyzzy was either a vig kill or an SK kill (if he have a SK). Xyzzy has a lot of heat on him yesterday, and was almost lynched. He would have been bandwagoned and would have been a relatively easy mis-lynch today. I doubt the Mafia would really spend their kill on killing someone who would die anyway.

Xyzzy makes sense as a vig kill and a SK kill for the same exact reason. Both entities are looking to eradicate scum. I want to do a little bit of research, and I will double post in a few moments.

[LoudmouthLee]

Last to feel Monte Cristo's vengeance is Villefort. Villefort's family is divided. Valentine, his daughter by his first wife, stands to inherit the entire fortune of her grandfather and of her mother's parents (the Saint-Mérans), while his second wife, Héloïse, seeks the fortune for her small son Edward. Monte Cristo is aware of Héloïse's intentions, and "innocently" introduces her to the technique of poison. Héloïse fatally poisons the Saint-Mérans, so that Valentine gets their inheritance. Then she attempts to murder Valentine's grandfather, Nortier, but his servant accidentally drinks the poisonous draught and dies. Nortier is coincidentally saved from a second attempt when he disinherits Valentine as a ploy to stop Villefort from forcing Valentine to marry Franz d'Epinay. Héloïse then targets Valentine, so that Edward would get her fortune.
...snip...
After Monte Cristo learns that his old friend Morrel's son is in love with Valentine, he saves her by making it appear as though Héloïse's plan to poison Valentine has succeeded and that Valentine is dead (although actually in a drugged sleep caused by a mixture of hashish and opium prepared by Monte Cristo). Villefort learns from Noirtier that Héloïse is a murderer. Villefort confronts Héloïse, giving her the choice of a public execution or committing suicide by poison. Then he goes off to Andrea's trial. There, Andrea reveals that he is Villefort's son, and rescued after Villefort buried him alive. Villefort admits his guilt and flees the court. He feels he is as guilty as his wife, and rushes home to stop her suicide. He finds she has poisoned herself and "taken her son with her." Dantès confronts Villefort. Villefort shows Dantès his dead wife and son, and becomes insane. Dantès tries to resuscitate Edward, fails, and is remorseful that his revenge has gone too far.

This means the following, at least in my humble opinion:

Valentine is a vigilante, using the poison that has been taught by COMC or Héloïse is the Serial Killer, also in tune with poisons.

Let's continue on.

I find MGM still to be most suspicious (especially since he believes that Cubs's power could be faked.) The last few CES posts make me feel very uneasy, a stark contrast to D1, wher I had him pegged as VLI (Very Likely Innocent). I am still suspicious of Adele and IH, as said earlier.

I'm going to metagame Zindy right now and find him likely innocent at the fevor he went after a mislynch of Xyzzy.

Unvote, since Xyzzy is dead, if necessary

Vote: MGM

, Adele, IH, CES, [everyone else], Zindy, No Lynch, LML

[LoudmouthLee]

I expect LML to answer my question about the meta he has on me. If he says it's in an ongoing game I'm going to be angry.

It's not. You were online at the time of the post. You were "active" in Theme Park. It's a meta read, and I didn't vote you. I'm allowed to feel a certain way. Let's couple this with the fact that...

a) You haven't been reading. Did you even notice the duel that basically (for all intents and purposes) cleared me? No one has counterclaimed my role. My role makes sense. Cubs tried to duel me, and he was PROMISED by the mod if I were scum, I'd be dead. He said that himself. He's dead now, confirmed as innocent.

b) You havent been posting in this game, even when you're online. I know this is completely WIFOM, but You were online AND in Theme Park while I made my post. i can't be sure that you saw it, but a good mafia player ignores nothing.

Stop voting for the

most

confirmed innocent this town HAS right now.

(Note: I know, in no way, I could be a confirmed innocent... but.. draw your own conclusions)

[LoudmouthLee]

and... I am merely speculating the TYPES of kills we have. So we can chart them later. You are being completely remiss if you don't look at the players who die and draw conclusions from there, wether it a framing or not. The more info the town has, the better.

[LoudmouthLee]

I thought you were scummy, but it was for a circumstasncial meta reason.

I was not coming up with potential RCs, I, instead, was trying to figure out if we had a vig or an SK doing those kills. As of now, I posted both to see what the town thought.

To push really hard for a mislynch D1, IMHO, is a pro-town manuveur. I find that it brings undue attention, something that scum is trying to avoid.

[LoudmouthLee]

I did claim my rolename. I'm searching for a player. I'm a very very weak power role.

[LoudmouthLee]

It is not explicitly said. I will ask the mod.

[LoudmouthLee]

I, too, have a secret word. I used it twice yesterday. I don't know what, if anything, happened with it. I had asked the mod what it does and if everyone has one (like Verbose). Mr. Grey put on his charms and told me that he couldn't answer either of those questions.

Larger, game post incoming in an hour or so, as I have time to formulate one while at work.

[LoudmouthLee]

Speaking of Mgm, I've taken a look at jeep's and xyzzy's posts and discovered that mgm, PlaysWithSquirrels (who was replaced by Gaspar), LoudMouthLee, and Skruffs are common votes between both players. There has to be a reason that both were nightkilled instead of scum attempting to get the town to lynch them.

Bogus. You think that the majority of the town would have "followed" Xyzzy to a lynch of any of these players? Why do you think that Xyzzy was nearly the condorcet winner? (By a 9-8 vote, Xyzzy outlasted Cubsfan). Xyzzy had a lot of heat on him. I severely doubt that he would have led the town on a crusade to get anyone.

You say that they were both voting for me (and a few others), and that may be true, but that sample set is irrevelant. A little bit less than the majority of the town was voting for me at my greatest VC and the majority votyed me at least once throughout the day.

In other words, throw a rock at two players. Chances are both voted me at some point D1.

I dislike your deflection of attention, and you will be garnering my vote for now.

@Foolinc - Please outline your case on Gaspar. Is it just the "I think he's the killing party that killed either Xyzzy or BM because both had voted for PWS at some point?"

It looks like a blatant framing job.

I am moving Foolinc up, MGM down, and inserting some other random spec votes in here..

Unvote.

Vote: Foolinc

, Adele, Talitha, IH, CES, [everyone unlisted], MGM, [Gaspar, DP, Zindy], NL, LML

[LoudmouthLee]

Sorry, it seems as though we're now officially trusting mgm on the understanding that he's claimed Eugenie (note to self: read the book) and he at least knows that Dante's in the game? That's not nearly as good a claim as it originally appeared. I did trust him, relatively speaking, because he wound up just seeming trustworthy yesterday, but that's not set in stone.

Now, perhaps I'm a little slower than that, but to read MGM's post (almost exclusively), ignore all other posts, look at his posts in the filter, and find the correct name on wikipedia, with their posts 8 minutes apart is just not innocent to me.

qft, actually. That does seem hella unlikely.

Are you trying to suppose that Logiticus and MGM are Scumbuddies who worked out MGM's claim so that they would be online at nearly the same time and Logiticus could 'find' information that was clearly present to all of us in an attempt to clear him?

Because thats ridiculous.

Yes, it is. Somewhat unridiculous, though, is mgm planning N0 to claim Eugenie if challenged, and mentioning that he'd do so in the way that he eventually did. Logic,

happening

to be online when mgm claimed and noticing the "E" and checking from there, naturally realised that mgm claimed as planned immediately and alerts the world to make his buddy safe as fast as possible, while giving the external-validation thing. hmm.

(smallish) FOS: mgm, logic, tamuz.

because it is, after all, very much circumastantial.

God, I know not what to say about this post...

I am getting the feeling that you're looking for a double lynch here. It looks that you're trying to kill two birds with a single stone. Let's lynch MGM for a staged claim, and then lets lynch Logi for validating that MGM claimed in such a way while looking up information on Wikipedia.

I think the case on Logi is completely bogus.

My list stays the same, however, I would have no issue changing my vote to Adele over Foolinc (2 and 1 on my list, respectively)

[LoudmouthLee]

Foolinc - you think xyzzy was targetted at night and died the following day? Okay. What's your reasoning?

"Because he was doing the poisoning?" quips LML, the eager contestant.

"Survey says...!" calls out Richard Dawson.

All of a sudden, the #1 answer turns over and says "Foolinc is a bad man." The families politely clap.

[LoudmouthLee]

I´ve seen mafia do stranger things. If they believed the investigator was totally wrong in his suspicions for example, it would be a shame to waste a block on him that could be used against someone else.

I´m more concerned about how scum was able to kill BM without running into a doctor protection.

God.

Since everyone knows I'm not a doctor, I will say this:

PLEASE DO NOT ANSWER MGM.

This seems like blatant doctor rolefishing, and I REALLY dislike it.

His claim seemed fine, but he's acting so scummy, I know not what to do. I feel like moving him up... way way up... on my list again.

[LoudmouthLee]

A superkill is when more than one group targets a player. For instance, Mafia and SK both killing the same guy.

I'm at a loss for words for why MGM's blatant dochunting is going largely unnoticed.

[LoudmouthLee]

I didn't ask a question, so I'm not asking anyone to answer me. Surely we can discuss how BM managed to die without outing the doctor.

You're trying to give the scum a crucial advantage in this game.

I'd rather not give the scum the ability to use role speculation against us. As of right now, I would rather assume that there IS NO doctor, and if there is a protection, we get a wonderful surprise. Why give the scum more information? I think this is a pro-scum line of discussion, and I would love for it to be ended.

[LoudmouthLee]

Information about the data of Voting.

Foolinc is first (17-0). Current deadline lynch.

Adele is a close second (16-1, only losing to Foolinc 5-8-4. This means that 5 people have Adele over Foolinc. 8 people have Foolinc over Adele, 4 people have no preference.)

MGM is third (14-2-1), Losing to Foolinc (4-8-5), Adele (4-6-7) and TIED with Dani Banani (6-6-5)

Dani Banani and CES both have 5 ties. Which means slight changes in voting could make a significant change to the condorcet.

[LoudmouthLee]

I hereby request that everyone makes a condorcet list ASAP. Even if it's temporary, having a total unvote is incredibly anti-town. It makes everyone "equal ground" for lynching, and gives the town less to work with later.

[LoudmouthLee]

i thought both you & LmL had said something about revealing your secret word...

Absolutely not. I just said that I had a secret word and I used it. I didn't notice anything at all in regards to it.

In other news:

It's been my experience that scum tend to kill people they think are power roles and/or beginning to be suspicious of them. In fact, WIFOM kills tend to backfire (e.g. game I might have been able to win at Thespival had I killed MeMe instead of AmeliaSlay), and scum tend to be far more straightforward with their approach. What in your experience suggests that scum are more likely to draw conclusions from analyzed discussion of nightkills? (I also strongly disagree that nightkill discussion is inherently WIFOM, though it certainly can be.)

I inherently disagree with you in regards to this. I feel that the nighkills vary on the strength level of the scumteam. For instance...

Let's take a game with a few top level players, a few middle level players, and a few nobodies. One of the top level players dies in a night start game. Even though you might feel this is WIFOM, I would assume our scumteam consists primarialy of middleground players.. ones who KNOW who the top level players are, but aren't slick enough to think of possible doc protections.

I believe, although WIFOM, looking at kills presents a wonderful way to generate suspicions.

[LoudmouthLee]

Just FYI in reference to a question that was posted earlier.

I didn't have a secret word in verbose. I don't remember if scum did, but I certainly didn't and that was as a more-or-less survivor/deceiver role.

not a secret word, but a posting restriction.

[LoudmouthLee]

pretty sure you're fishing Skruffs.

I don't like it.

And I hate that I can't tell between poor play from you and scummy play from you because you'd do the same thing if you are town or scum.

btw

way to go Michigan! Though our scores were a little off, our results were correct and that's all that counts.

Unless you actually bet on that sort of line.

You just felt like padding your post count?

I call foul on Pooky. I might even lynch him for it. The 25 word minimum was finished before he even began to discuss the football game. His charms will not get him out of this one. There's something legitimately wrong with his claim of padding.

If the football comment was the only bit in the entire post, I would be perplexed, but I wouldn't think it was overly bogus.

I think he's lying, and I'm going to update my condorcet to show.

Unvote

Vote: Foolinc

, Adele/MBL, MGM, IH, Pooky, Tally, CES, [everyone unlisted], [Gaspar, Zindy], NL, LML

[LoudmouthLee]

Hmmmm!

Mr. Grey has put himself in the condorcet. Please refer to DP's Friday the 13th Mafia (or someting to that extent) where the mod was the latent SK. Is it possible? Is it not worth discussing now? I find it very odd that Mr. Grey was included in the Condorcet.

Anyone with any ideas?

[LoudmouthLee]

@MBL - If you know you're town, wouldn't you be willing to knowingly sheep to save your life, since you know there is a better chance of finding scum with the lynch of ANYONE else other than you? That was explicitly said.

I understand you just did a PBPA of D1, which is wonderful.

You current vote is for NL, followed by the dead Xyzzy.

Your real condorcet looks like NL, Dani, CES, Gaspar, Poolt, Me, MGM, etc.

Did you see the "duel" scene in which, if I were scum, I would be killed?

[LoudmouthLee]

EBWOP: pooky, not poolt.

[LoudmouthLee]

What do you think of LML leaning on his claim and Cubs action?

Dude. I claimed. I was "dueled". I believe my play has been VERY pro-town. I have openly hunted for scum. I have let my thought and intentions be known.

I know you have a hardon for lynching me. The reason is unbeknowst to me. I will say that it is rather discerning to keep on pushing me when there are so many BETTER targets out there.

[LoudmouthLee]

And.. I wouldn't call myself absolutely cleared, but I would call myself VPI (Very probable innocent), if the situation arose and our proverbial shoes were on the other feet.

[LoudmouthLee]

Glork + MBL + LML = Volitile Mixture.

God, I love this game sometimes.

@Gaspar = Do you find MBL's omissions (Primate's missed admission, no reference to the duel) laziness or scumminess?

[LoudmouthLee]

Will expand tomorrow morning.

Vote: IH

, Pooky, Tally, CES, MGM, MBL [everyone unlisted], [Gaspar, Zindy, foolinc], NL, LML

[LoudmouthLee]

I am relatively sure IH is scum, and NEEDS to be lynched today.

Thesp came up as scum, and yes, that's a surprise to me. However, Thesp was a member of the mafia AND a character from the book.

Why else would someone think that Members of the book MUST be scum? If they are scum and know that the scum team is proposed of SOLELY mafia members, and all who had died at that point are people from Fresno.

Condorcet coming later.

Vote: IH

[LoudmouthLee]

Errr.. reread my post, let me try that again...

Why else would someone think that Members of the book MUST be scum? If they are scum and know that the scum team is proposed of

SOLELY book characters

members, and all who had died at that point are people from Fresno.

[LoudmouthLee]

OK then - out of curiosity Zindy, what do you see as the likeliest explanation for why foolinc was not killed overnight?

Isn't this WIFOM at it's finest?

I would disagree (Traitors, Town roles, things like that can mess with numbers), and even if I would agree, the evidence from Night 1 suggests only 1 team, and I simply cannot see a rational scumteam play while taking into account the presence of another scumteam in this situation.

Until Mith updates the method of death (if I saw correctly, both Thesp and Scruffs were murdered), while Xyzzy was...

xyzzy (Barbara Morgan, Innocent) - myocardiacally infarced Day 2.

This seems to lend itself to THREE killing parties, not two. A player of your claiber should not miss something this major.

I'm a bit disturbed at foolinc's "secret word". Faked. It just... doesn't seem like it's a pro-town word. I'm merely speculating. I know my charms are far-reaching.

I'm unsure how much I like IH's claim, yet both Glork and VitR seem to find him more innocent than less.

Right now, I'm going to make a mini condorcet and chage my vote. I thought Zindy was pro-townish (mainly because I thought Thesp was pro-townish), but after re-reading D1, I'd like to see him swing.

PS: MGM was a townie with a rolename. IH is a townie without a rolename? Pass.

Tamuz wasn't shocked that Thesp was scum, huh?

And to answer the question of why foolinc was left alive, i subject 2 answers for you.

#1) He's scum.
#2) Scum is baiting us to believe he's scum.

Which is it, Tally?

Unvote,
Vote: Tally

, Zindaras, IH, Tamuz, CES, MBL, [the lot]. No Lynch, Foolinc, LML

[LoudmouthLee]

This is my check-in post I have been very active this game. and haven't posted a checkin post yet. Sorry. I've just been strikingly buisy with work / life the last 2 days or so.

Will do better.

[LoudmouthLee]

Wow... that may just be fun coincidence! Let's try it again!

LACE SARCASTRO

Now, if you die, it'll be worth it. My role says nothingh about this. I doubt I have the charms to do daykills.

[LoudmouthLee]

Well, that's just idiotic, LmL. If there

is

a poisoner SK out there, you've just handed him his next victim. If you're lying scum, you'll try to weasel your way out of it by asserting that you yourself are being set up.

Dude, remember when I said.. "Hidey Ho! Mr. Grey's in the cordorcet?"

Put two and two together and get four. 5 will get you 15 that Mr. Grey's the recursive serial killer.

[LoudmouthLee]

Because I like the word?

Honestly, this is an incredibly odd line of questioning. I'm a teacher of English. Is "lacing into somebody" such an odd idiom?


http://www.allwords.com/word-lace.html

Phrasal Verb: lace into someone
To attack them physically or with words.

[LoudmouthLee]

It sure does.

I still think it's the Mod as the SK. Could it be for people who fall into 2 categories:

a) People who have a secret word...
and...
b) People who fail to utter their secret word?

I am very tempted to add Mr. Grey to my condorcet. Especially how he was unlisted D1 in the cordorcet, but listed D2, after Xyzzy's death, in the condorcet.

[LoudmouthLee]

What caused you to capitalize Xyzzy's name in that instance?

What caused you to capitalize the word lace?

don't play us for fools, it could be easily possible that your poisoning ability is a one shot thing.

You like the word lace? Cite one instance of youu using that word in that context before using it to describe what you would do to Skruffs.

I'm very concerned about this "coincidence"

I use the term lacing into someone frequently. I capitalized the worst for effect (since I can't BOLD in this game).

I also consistently talk in ALL CAPS when I want to make a point.

I'm playing you for a fool, Pooky?

Do you think a one shot role like that, even if it was mine (which it is not) would be a scum or an SK with only one shot? And if I were scum, do you really think I would have "used my kill on xyzzy"? He was surely yesterday's lynch if he were alive.

Wake up Pooky. You're better than this,

[LoudmouthLee]

I tried to do it again.

And I will.

LACE LOUDMOUTHLEE.

What now, Tally?

[LoudmouthLee]

The fact that no-one has been day-killed yet today points even more strongly at Lee being the culprit, IMO. If there were an anti-town day-killer who isn't Lee... surely he would've framed Lee. At the very least Lee would've worried about being framed (like Gaspar pointed out) unless he knew he

couldn't

be framed. His reactions are pretty much cementing my suspicions.

So on the condorcet he goes.

vote: IH

, Lee, Dani, MrBuddyL

You're ignoring the following possibilities...

#1) The possibility that Mr. Grey is the killer.
#2) The possibility that the "poisoner" is a vig who does not want to be outted.

I find it very odd that, if you feel I'm "guilty" that you have Dani Banani (who is now Sarcastro) on your condorcet. This is, of course, because Sarcastro pointed out the LACE comment.

Your actions do not jive with someone who is pro-town. I like my vote exactly where it is, and I would appreciate everyone to take a long hard look at Tally today. She is the correct lynch. Look back at the beginning of the day with her reactions to Foolinc.

She's looking to mislynch here... and looking to mislynch badly. Tally is definately the right play.

[LoudmouthLee]

I don't think LACE is a coincidence, here's why: It's linked to poison, it was used along with the victim's name right before he died, if the search function is to be believed, the word 'lace' has not been used by anyone on mafiascum since 2003, and it reminds me of the kinds of roles that mith had in Verbose 2 (The mafia had to post a certain phrase publicly in order to recruit the traitor). Just my opinion, but Lee is looking mighty shady right now.

I also went back and found that Tamuz included Mr Grey in his condorcet in post 831. Will be interesting to see how the PJ vote is treated by the mod.

On track mind, eh?

I use the word lace consistently. It was a word choice. I like to vary my sentences. I have been known to lace into people, and that is my idiom of choice. I'm sure I've used it on here before, but even if I hadn't, it's a common American idiom.

Lace does mean to poison, point taken, but it also means those pretty little doilies that people have on their endtables. You know, the ones that you put on a glasstop so the vase doesn't scratch the glass? Yeah. That's a lace.

My secret word, FWIW, is "Charms". Makes sense, since Mercedes is widely considered to be Charming.

Hey, if "lace" was my secret word, I implore you, look back at D1 and find me saying the word.

Tally, You need to be hung.

[LoudmouthLee]

http://www.okcupid.com/profile?u=LoudmouthLee

Last updated BEFORE I got married and before my tryout of World Series of Pop Culture.

Look for the "What I'm doing on a typical Saturday night".

What now, Pooky? My pictures are there and you can see HOW LONG i've been a member for.

[LoudmouthLee]

I've honestly never heard lace used in that context before

Really? It's quite common. I find that odd for such an accomplished writer.

[LoudmouthLee]

There is not any other way I could defend myself. I am telling you that I didn't do it. I am telling you that if you lynch me, you're lynching a nearly confirmed innocent (I said Nearly...) as evidenced by the cubsfan duel.

I am no longer answering questions in regards to this. I say we need to get to lynching Grey. We need to get to lynching him now. He is obviously a lynchable character. Pooky, please get your head out of your ass and read DP13.

[LoudmouthLee]

Foolinc has looked a lot better today. Although its always suspicious when a claimed doc doesnt get nightkilled, but its not off the wall. I didnt like his actions early on and his post listing possible roles in the very beginning reeks of scum trying to act helpful.

I actually agree with Tallys suspects at this point. As for her play, I havent gotten a scum vibe from her this game. I dont understand her desperation recently when she said if she goes, IH and LML need to go next. Shes barely next on the chopping block with a lot of people who still havent voted.

CES looks better today, but he was high on my suspect list yesterday for what I thought was a scum slip up and there he remains.


I really had glorkspar going after Grey so hard. There is no evidence grey is a killer and if we lynch him it will likely have the same effect as a no lynch.

Vote LML

, [CES, IH], [the rest], Pooky, logicticus

@Logi - Are you sheeping Tally or are you genuinely voting me because I'm the "best lynch?"

I don't understand how a MOD CONFIRMED function BAFFLES the majority of you. I mean. God.

[LoudmouthLee]

The following things I know are true.

#1) If no one comes to my aid about the Xyzzy kill, the kill is an ANTI-TOWN kill. I don't care how much you are looking to protect your role, but if you are a VIG and are trying to protect your role, it is NOT too late to save a mislynch in me.

#2) I firmly believe that the Xyzzy kill belongs to Mr. Grey, and I feel that the majority of the town is being foolish here.

#3) Nothing I could say or do will make Pooky change his mind. Pooky has changed from a top quality mafia player to a player who absolutely "needs" to be right, no matter the situation. I will be sure to discuss this in great detail after the game. This is not meant to be a knock on you, Pooky, more like a statement of fact. Sorry, but I didn't kill Xyzzy. If you guys choose to lynch me, you will have even LESS information while killing a power role (albiet a weak power role.)

I am unsure if Pooky's inability to read both sides of a situation is leading me to think he's scum, or just an arrogant player who doesn't know his ass from his elbow.

The question is, simply...

If you think I'm responsible for the Xyzzy kill, why would you NOT give me the benefit of the doubt

due to the DUEL scene

and lynch Mr. Grey first? If he turns out to just be... well... a red herring, I will go quietly into the night.

If you want to really try to find scum (which you all SHOULD..) you really need to look elsewhere other than me.

PS: I promise you that at least one, possibly two scum members are on my bandwagon right now.

So, if you REALLY want to lynch me, do it tomorrow and

lynch Mr. Grey today.

You may call it OMGUS, but it takes a special type of scum to spin this bullshit on me. If you want to find scum, it's about time that you stop listening to Pooky. You may call my condorcet OMGUS, but there's definately scum on it.

Vote: Mr. Grey

, Tally, Pooky, Logi, Sarcastro, Tamuz, MBL

[LoudmouthLee]

I use it commonly in everyday venacular. It's a very common idiom. I do not have timestamped evidence of using it in a mafia game, but I use the term.

And pardon me for using a google search of LoudmouthLee and Lace to get that result.

In other words... feh.

[LoudmouthLee]

It's better this way.

I'm the SK with a popcorn role. My night choices were as follows:

I killed BM and I killed Thesp, you ignorant people.

Cubsfan knew his role, I had one shot "non-lynch" protection.

Don't pat yourselfd on the back, Pooky, you're scum. I know that because I had a one shot "cop" role last night.

Foolinc is the doc. He protected me against the Mafia kill N2.

I can't come out and say it before, but Go town, I guess. I was better at finding scum than any of you thus far.

Maybe I'll get my paragon shit later on. You're welcome.

Bitches.

Unvote, Vote: LoudmouthLee

[LoudmouthLee]

Oh, and.. No, I didn't kill Xyzzy.

[LoudmouthLee]

Nice try. Bye bye, tomorrow, Scum.

[LoudmouthLee]

and Foolinc protected me N1, which seems to be why there was only one kill.

You guys kick butt. You can only correctly lynch on accident.

[LoudmouthLee]

I have no reason to lie/ I have the SK, who am I protecting? You'll see my role, I'm from fresno. I'm a mass murderer, who indeed, NEVER used poison, but is a master of disguises.

I can dress up as a number of different things. I was a doc, then a cop. It's an SK bonus.

I killed Thesp already. There is no two family stuff (read: Kill Zindy, too, after you lynch Pooky)

[LoudmouthLee]

But, it will become obvious, I am the SK who murders and kidnaps, not poisons.

[LoudmouthLee]

It seems odd that you're outwardly defending him. Hmm?

[LoudmouthLee]

No, I feel no need to further help anyone, town or scum.