NY 169: The EPIC XD Mafia Game of Greatness (Game Over)
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goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
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At least two of them are not Town.In post 39, Cephrir wrote:Brian Skies is town.
geists is town.
F16 is town.
Generic is town.
Discuss.
YOU HAVE MY FACEPALM
AND AIN'T THAT THE TRUTH
IF YOU WANT GM'S FULL ATTENTION YOU HAVE TO ACT LIKE LOWERCASE KILLED YOUR PARENTS LIKE THIS.In post 23, Generic wrote:Full names if you don't mind mr goodmorning, we aren't that familiar yet sweet cheeks
How would you like it if I called you Goo for the rest of the game?
And for a positive example of this see the great success of it in Author Mafia (quite a few big names, but no egos because secret alts and such).
Yo'd be surprised how big name games can fall apart. Go look at scummies invitational. Keeping egos off the thread will probably be an important method of town powerkeeping.In post 29, BROseidon wrote:Just to let everyone know this game is a town win.
haaaa we are steadfastly not going to have problems with each other over this laterIn post 55, Tammy wrote:Two quote stripers is not better than one:(-
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<3In post 77, Stuffed Crust wrote:
OH MY GOD DID YOU JUST ASSOCIATE GOODMORNING WITH DROWNING CATS? SHAME ON YOU, REPENT!In post 26, Generic wrote:In post 24, goodmorning wrote:If you think I'd give a shit you'd be disappointed.
Well aren't you the delight. Do you drown kittens in your spare time?
<3In post 80, Tammy wrote:Oh my gods the quote stripes are already starting on page two you guys are going to give me a headache.
<3In post 90, MC Maraca wrote:In post 86, MC Maraca wrote:Official town block application form v1
I, [iGoodMorning[/i] am applying to MC Maraca's AwesomeSauce Town Block. My townreads are:
%MC Marca, because they're fucking awesome and use capslock%
I think I am a good fit for the townblock because [iMy facepalms of justice will make scum run scared
[/i]
Attached is my payment,A BRAND NEW CAPSLOCK KEYmade payable to MC Maraca.
On pure odds I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with you.In post 98, Cephrir wrote:In post 70, goodmorning wrote:
At least two of them are not Town.In post 39, Cephrir wrote:Brian Skies is town.
geists is town.
F16 is town.
Generic is town.
Discuss.
1. It's not a stat course.
2. Odds distract people.
3. Unlikely =/= impossible, and it's not eventhatunlikely.
4. You don't seem to care which two (or more) I don't think are Town. This most likely means any of the following:
A. You dismiss me (at your peril)
i. You think I am Scum
ii. You think I am stupid.
B. You dismiss them as potential Scum
i. You are Scum
ii. You are stupid.
I don't think you're stupid. I don't think I'm stupid. I'm not Scum...
Not saying you certainly are Scum but IGMEOY and stuff.
In other news, I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING
TOO MUCH POSTS
I READ BUT I
I DO NOT COMPREHEND
I'll go do some ISOs tomorrow I think to get some real baseline reads.-
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Sorry my life has made things so difficult for you.In post 584, Generic wrote:Also, given GOodmorning has done the square root of sod all why have a few got such a strong town read on her?
Is she known as town for being awkward, no use and then absent?
Rest assured that I am here now and working up a readslist.-
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I didn't ISO last time. If I had, I'd have posted it. I don't waste effort like that.In post 726, Casso the King of Seals wrote:@Goodmorning - I look forward to hearing all your thoughts from your last iso read, and am prepared to wait a few days/weeks for you to catchup and then do an additional iso read, I bet it will be revealing. I'll admit what I expect to be revealed is that you are scum, but I'm a touch the pessimist at heart.
I'm still working on the present one, since roughly everyone has 100+ posts of fluff and <10 posts of content apiece.-
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lolololololIn post 1066, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:Yeah. I am unaware of whether he prefers town or scum. The other players I am referring to were Pitoli (for whom it seems to be a null-tell based on my last game with her), Cephrir (who said he was busy in the signup thread so it is likely null), GoodMorning (I still have my suspicions), and Desperado (but he is a competent scum player, so I doubt lurking is a scumtell for him).
ask ffery if lurking is a scumtell for me
i dare you-
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What is Town's job when trying to read people, taking risks or being right?In post 1342, Stuffed Crust wrote:(that was the MAC, this is the SOON)
MC Maraca:Why does your reads-list seem like a consensus more than anything to me? It doesn't sit right, and I don't feel like you're taking any risks with any of your reads. It bugs me.
Also-also, can we talk about the weird thing happening between DOMO and Desperado right now? I don't know how to read it, because it feels like both votes can be scum-motivated out of the fact my wagon didn't gain any steam. They both feel very opportunistic to me. That said, I don't feel like there's bussing going on right here (although I've never seen someone bus as hard as Desperado). What do you guys think?
-V
Sometimes the people who look scummy... are Scum. WHAT A THOUGHT
Back to reading.-
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@VARSOON:In post 1356, goodmorning wrote:
What is Town's job when trying to read people, taking risks or being right?In post 1342, Stuffed Crust wrote:(that was the MAC, this is the SOON)
MC Maraca:Why does your reads-list seem like a consensus more than anything to me? It doesn't sit right, and I don't feel like you're taking any risks with any of your reads. It bugs me.
-V
Sometimes the people who look scummy... are Scum. WHAT A THOUGHT-
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Do you think that reads which are generally agreed-upon cannot be right?In post 1379, Stuffed Crust wrote:@GOODMORNING:I'd prefer people to be right. I don't think MC Maraca is right--I feel that they're presenting a summary of how players feel about others in general.
-V
He 3rd party slipped in LotR tooIn post 1471, pieguyn wrote:
that's a fuckin lie and you know itIn post 1389, Casso the King of Seals wrote:I don't know what he was trying to say with that but I'm not exactly optimistic about catching muffin scum based on a scum slip.
he scumslipped in imperishable night he can scumslip here too
and yes I count what he did in imperishable night as a scumslip :>
Still proud of that.-
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not great but not awfulIn post 1476, pieguyn wrote:hi GM how's the reading going
probably take me a couple more days tho-
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I haven't read either of you yet. Not voting on you just for some stupid argument when I don't have any concept of the rest of your game.
Vote: Casso-
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So I've had about 2 hrs internet access total the past 6 days, but that's OK because I'm here now even though I have no real idea what's going on. Sad Tammy is dead because I did her ISO AND NOW IT IS USELESS.
I... I don't know what these feelings are...In post 3904, Generic wrote:I got shit for daring to suggest majiffy doesn't know what he's doing.
Is this... Love?
I think I may have to vote you though.
GOTTA REREAD SHIT
Also may need to vote Nacho again, THIS SUCKS
OH UIn post 3942, Generic wrote: My reaction is a generic reaction
Hm, DOMO vs F16... I think F16 is Town.
Just saw this, think I need to respond:
Sorry I have life problems? Sorry I'm alive? LOOK I AM SO SORRY I MAKE THINGS DIFFICULT FOR YOUIn post 3015, Generic wrote:So glad you allow players like GOodmorning to coast like this. Have you isoed her posts? Since the self aware hand waving of being called suspicious for doing nothing she has fluff posted and prod doded her way along.
Had there not been a potential mason link thrown out I would put more energy into this, but just wanted to say those of you auto clearing her on this behaviour disgust me. That's not mafia, that's making up the numbers.
IT IS HARD OKIn post 3023, Generic wrote:400 posts ago she was catching up. And yet not a single final comment on the game state, a naked V/LA and gone... yeah, im fine with feeling something is amiss there.
IT IS DIFFICULT FOR ME TO CATCH UP IN GAMES THAT INCREASE 20 PAGES PER DAY
LET ME ASSURE YOU THAT I AM GETTING THERE
But right now I think I want to
Vote: Muffin
I do not think I am comfortable with his posting. More on this when I (finally) finish ISOs.-
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This readslist is bad.In post 4041, Cephrir wrote:A list not including MCM/SSK, with minimal reasoning
by Cephrir
TOWN
DOMO: This hasn't changed. Town town town town town town.
geists: ffery is posting a lot and clearly scumhunting.
Sakura Hana: That reaction.
F-16: The scumreads here are just bullshit.
Casso: I was persuaded in the last 40 pages. Thor has been surprisingly awesome and this looks like towncho.
Bert: He's doing what I'm looking for but not as much as I want him to.
Bro: Not playing the way I've seen him play scum, and when he does bother to grace us with his presence I like him.
Generic: mostly on the strength of today.
Desp: Those posts I picked out a couple quote walls ago really were this good.
Muffin: I really liked a few pages ago when he threw away a chance to scumread me (a very easy mislynch) for no good reason and without trying to take credit for having a sick read or anything.
LESS TOWN
KoreanBBQ: Mostly just because I have reason to think everyone north of them is town. This is definitely a 'to many townreads' type of game.
goodmorning: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz If you're town then I really hope you're a mason because otherwise I will probably lynch you at some point
Norlkaz: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz but I guess I liked Brian Skies? Reads don't get much staler than that one though.
pieguyn: I liked his entry posts but he keeps doing weird things, like blowing up which seems really out of character in between calm posts. Tone is too cold for my tastes.
Ser Arthur Dayne: I just don't like any of the things he actually posts.
After yesterday though I'm feeling rather shitty about this game so I will probably sheep ffery/Nacho for a while as long as they aren't doing something I strenuously object to. Then again I say things like that a lot and usually don't follow through on them.
Assuming that
1. There are 4-5 Scum in a game this size and
2. You think SSK is Scum (unless I'm missing something)
that gives you 3-4 scumslots to fill. You have 5 scumreads to fill those slots. Two of those scumreads are "eh you haven't posted". One is PoE. One is tone-based. One is gut(?).
Guess how many of those are truly valid at this stage of the game?
I feel like I mentioned the fact that I've had 2 hours of internet access in the past 6 days, but maybe I forgot to say it?In post 4046, DOMO wrote:
Yeah welcome to ages ago. I agree F-16 is town.In post 4022, goodmorning wrote:Hm, DOMO vs F16... I think F16 is Town.
Do you think my opinion of it or my feeling of wanting to comment on it is affected by the lapse in time? Because the words are the same and the eyes are reading fresh posts...
I want to know what you think of the following three:In post 4048, Bert wrote:Comrades, I am here but I'm in way over my head with this one. I will join in for some first class late-night discussion after the holidays though to make up for that.
Cephrir, Casso, geists.-
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In post 4077, DOMO wrote:
If you said this on d1, then high chance I missed it. I've read every post today that I'm aware of.In post 4071, goodmorning wrote:I feel like I mentioned the fact that I've had 2 hours of internet access in the past 6 days, but maybe I forgot to say it?
Also, god I hate hydras. One head said this but the other head said that. jfc.
It's OK. I hardly remember what I post anymore, why should I expect you to?In post 4022, goodmorning wrote:So I've had about 2 hrs internet access total the past 6 days, but that's OK because I'm here now even though I have no real idea what's going on.
I feel like this is a gigantic scumtell from upper-level hydrae, am I right or am I right?In post 4080, MC Maraca wrote:He's talking about casso explaining shit away by pointing to the other head.-
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1. Did I say I had a problem with you having that number of scumreads? Let me state for the record that (probable slots+1) is a perfectly reasonable number of scumreads to have. That was me stating a fact. It was not me getting at you.In post 4096, Cephrir wrote:Well this is a shitpost and a half.
1. I don't care if my number of scumreads matches up to the number of scum the game may or may not contain. I'm not trying to solve the whole damn puzzle at once.In post 4071, goodmorning wrote:This readslist is bad.
Assuming that
1. There are 4-5 Scum in a game this size and
2. You think SSK is Scum (unless I'm missing something)
that gives you 3-4 scumslots to fill. You have 5 scumreads to fill those slots. Two of those scumreads are "eh you haven't posted". One is PoE. One is tone-based. One is gut(?).
Guess how many of those are truly valid at this stage of the game?
2. I didn't say that. I am withholding my opinion.
3. I happen to think 3, possibly 4 after this post, of those are decent reads. More importantly, I don't see you having any reads to speak of, so shut up.
4. Valid schmalid. I'll let you know if I get a cop guilty, until then I will continue to read as best as I can, deal with it, or you can start whining about my lack of 'evidence'.
2. OK. Withhold your opinion on SSK. That's fine. It doesn't really change my point.
3. Really? Because I don't think they are. I think they're cop-out reads, and that is why I have pointed them out as being bad.
Moreover, I've made most of my firmer reads clear thus far. Granted I haven't finished my ISOing but the reasons will come when the list does.
4a. cop thing is i. silly if it were true and ii. very obviously untrue. -<3, Captain Obvious
4b. Are you saying lurking is a scumtell? Are you saying "I just don't like any of his posts" isn't an attempt to duck trying to explain in any way?
Look, I'm not saying that putting "gut" or "PoE" down for a few reads is a bad thing. I do that too. I'm saying take an objective look at your scumreads and tell me what you'd think if someone else put that out there, because right now that list looks shallower than a punctured kiddie pool.
OK, fine, you're rolefishing.Go ahead, accuse me of rolefishing, see if I care.
This is where you start raging and I rage back and we swear off each other forever which is a shame because I actually quite like your playstyle and you're not the kind of player that's satisfying to be a dick to.
Also lololol cabd-
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Why not join the Muffin wagon with meeeeeee?
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But there are all kinds of Scummy things that can come up clean to a Gunsmith - most notably Mafia Doctor and SK.In post 4142, DOMO wrote:I'm gunsmith, geists is clean. I checked her out because I wasn't able to get a solid read off her through d1 and I didn't want any distrust between us, ffery is good to work with when she's town.
And how would you propose we discover this?SSK should protect me tonight. A town watcher should be watching SSK in case he's blocked or targetted. If geists goes, well I hope she's not a cop or watcher.And if she's scum with no gun, then SSK is legit.
Cop, some JOATs, another Gunsmith...?I like that the vig got killed on d1, fwiw. It means no town massacre, and I can be sure that those with a gun are not town.-
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Yeahhh, but I'm saying that the first assumption is a little WTFy and the second is unknown until geists flips and therefore geists will not flip.In post 4145, DOMO wrote:
The assumption is that if SSK is scum, he's scum doc. So if geists is scum doc, then SSK isn't.In post 4144, goodmorning wrote:And how would you propose we discover this?
Yeahhh traditionally the Gunsmith owns guns in flavour because he likes them or something? IDK why, it just is.
I have a gun? And yes I realise I'm not as strong as a cop, that there are some town roles who have guns. But I can at least force a claim, and scum are likely to default fakeclaim cop to try and draw a real cop out. If there's a cop who I'm scumreading, he should probably get on my good side so I don't force his claim.In post 4144, goodmorning wrote:Cop, some JOATs, another Gunsmith...?
I think a cop is unlikely with a gunsmith in the setup but that's a different story.
This is true.In post 4148, MC Maraca wrote:As in "doc usually serves as the godfather for a gunsmith; especially when there's a full vig in the setup"
I mean, except for the mason thing one could certainly draw some sort of parallel, daytalk, gunsmith, full vig...In post 4149, Cephrir wrote:Is this setup just literally 167?
That is one bizarre coincidence.
My two cents: 1-for-1 is usually decent, but if the counterclaimer is something weird like a JOAT with a JK shot then it's not necessarily something mutually exclusive.In post 4168, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:I am thinking if there is a protective town PR, they should claim so that mafiassk can be lynched. Not sure if that is the optimal move yet so I'd rather have more discussion about this.
ohhhhh don't remind meIn post 4190, KoreanBBQ wrote:Actually the true NY167 strategy is to make VTs fake a guilty on ppl while we lynch claimed PR.
I believe he said something about daytalk? It's been a while, IDKIn post 4200, KoreanBBQ wrote:Can anyone remind me why MC Maraca claimed?-
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At any rate the Gunsmith probably DOES mean there's no Cop so let's not have a long drawn-out conversation about it?In post 4219, Cephrir wrote:No miller doesn't mean there's no cop, because miller is a stupid role and good mods don't use it.
This post gives me unease.In post 4244, Desperado wrote:because that's how you play mafia
ANSWERING YO QUESTION LOL FFERY GET MADIn post 4247, DOMO wrote:gesists, we need to figure some shit out today. What do you think of F-16's post where he asks me why I looked you up? I'm torn between it being unlikely scum would be so blatantly rolefishing, and not finding any town motivation. But it's kind of been brushed under the carpet, noone seems to have picked up on it. You'd think if he's town, scum would think there's grounds for mislynch there, but nothing.
I think F-16 is giving me most concern right now.
I don't think it's any kind of rolefishing. When one is Town and goes "well I would not put them that high on my investigations list" then one might be concerned the person claiming is faking it. So it's a valid question.
I, for one, would have looked at Casso. So it's a bit odd for me that you picked geists because I had a decent townread on them, though I think I can see why you did.
Yeahhh we should stop talking about that game now before I cryIn post 4251, geists wrote:Another game having a gunsmith in it so soon after ny167 is mindboggling.
I feel like you are describing WKing here. Am I wrong?In post 4258, pieguyn wrote:looking back on his D1 play, I'm not sure if I see the scum motivation in it. first off we had SC who practically had a death note signed thx to GIF scumreading him. instead nacho made a town case and stood by it. and now that he flipped town we know he wasn't trying to defend a buddy, so why would scum nacho directly stand against GIF and everyone who was supporting him (most of the player list)? especially bc he had every opportunity to mislynch SC and he didn't take it 0.0 he could be scum faking, but idk
There's been a bit too much excusing for my tastes.In post 4291, Casso the King of Seals wrote:
Like we have been?In post 4127, goodmorning wrote:Dissonance is one thing. Using the dissonance like you've been using it is a bit different.
unvote-
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goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
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lol when did this happen?In post 4352, Norlkaz wrote:I am somewhat disgusted by MC / GM being masons, but they laid considerable groundwork for the claim and haven't backed down.
I feel like everyone has been rehashing the same old shit, am I wrong?
Currently, my vote thoughts look something like this:
Well, SAD doesn't look 100% sparkly here and I don't like some of his responses to things, BUT I also don't like the look of that wagon. I mean, normally that shit doesn't bother me, but if only 1/6 voters is a townread then there's a step back I need to take.
Still working through ISOs, this would go so much faster if people hadn't posted so much fluff.-
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goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
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Excusing for things that people have problems with.In post 4391, Casso the King of Seals wrote:
Excusing for what?In post 4295, goodmorning wrote:There's been a bit too much excusing for my tastes.
Stop doing ISOs faster than me.In post 4403, zMuffinMan wrote:
i'm mostly done. give me a couple hours (i have like 5 to go)geists wrote:if zmuffin will finish those ISOs and post some reads I'll have something solid to base a read on
Also, let's wagon Casso for reals today.
That is all.
Yeah, still nobody will tell me when this happened?In post 4410, Casso the King of Seals wrote:Goodmorning/Maraca - I will admit that Cabd attaching to a weak player and claiming masons with them
Good, let's wagon Casso then.In post 4413, DOMO wrote:I'm happier with muffin than I am casso through this last read.
Here, I'll start:
Vote: Casso-
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Or the two of you are Scum together and thus it doesn't matter whether you were actually suspecting him.In post 4416, Casso the King of Seals wrote:Cephrir - I find the strongest reasoning for him being town his vote on me after he misinterpreted a joke from me as calling him scum; I'm sure scumRir knows that he would be expected to manufacture an attack on me whenever I call him scum, but it was so quick and kneejerk and natural (he didn't even attempt to clarify whether I was actually suspecting him or not) that I have trouble seeing him pulling it off as scum.
Plus, assumption of daytalk.
Interesting he didn't say anything about it.In post 4422, geists wrote:
Just facepalmed myself because I remembered a game where Nacho failed to pick up on the most obvious cop result crumb I've ever seen in a mafia game. He failed so hard he actually thought the post was scummy and voted the cop.In post 1384, geists wrote:We don't like how he apparently missed a ton of crumbs
Retracting the hell out of this.
This may be the sanest thing from you all game.In post 4430, Norlkaz wrote:Geists being our Official Town Leader is something I approve of.
OH LOOK FFERY I'M DOING IT AGAIN
Special preview from my ISOing work:
SCUM
Casso - I don't know if I can really articulate this, but I am getting badfeels from posts like 332, 335, 366, 368, and I'm going to stop that now because too many posts. I also don't like Nacho's reasoning on me (or Thor's, but especially Nacho's) in 379.
Spoiler: a closer look at this
Granted I stopped citing posts after the 300s but there wasn't any reason to make it a page long when it could just be a paragraph.
NEW SANEST THINGIn post 4443, Norlkaz wrote:
"As scum my play looks more like thus and so" is on my list of statements that come more often from scum than town.In post 4434, Casso the King of Seals wrote: I'm fairly confident you've seen a "Nacho showing off how much work he's doing" post, and it usually comes with limitless quote stripes and is followed by coasting, coasting, and more coasting.
Yeah wow that claim was sketch as hell
wtf-
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I don't know, but it's certainly interesting.In post 4464, geists wrote:
But is it scummy?In post 4461, goodmorning wrote:Interesting he didn't say anything about it.-
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noooIn post 4473, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:I read through Nacho's reads list in the Perpetual MYLO game and it doesn't seem similar to those reads-lists at all. Nacho's reads morph to fit what is generally accepted to the town. For instance the Bert townread after being questioned on why Bert is an Angel in waiting. The Pieguyn townread after it becomes apparent that he won't be lynched considering I showed in detail that he is playing to his town meta. I also strongly disagree with the Cephrir townread.
Top scumreads in order:
Cephrir
MafiaSSK
Casso
VOTE: Cephrir
that's tomorrow silly
hey
hey whoa
i'm cool with that
i appreciate your honesty in that-
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I'm saying that there's no reason to assume either of you is Town; I'm also saying that interaction makes the most sense if both of you are Scum.In post 4498, Casso the King of Seals wrote:Don't understand Nacho-Cephrir thing.
Yeah, again, I'm going to disagree with the slow starting statement.You are a player who starts slowly and a player who I generally don't get great reactions from pushing early.
Also it seems you've never pushed me early, so how would you know what quality of reactions you'd get from me if you did?-
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Did I say it makes you Scum?In post 4551, Casso the King of Seals wrote:
I think you start slow. You don't think you start slow. How does that make me scum?In post 4514, goodmorning wrote:Also it seems you've never pushed me early, so how would you know what quality of reactions you'd get from me if you did?
I've pushed you late and I didn't get a fantastic quality of reactions from you. I can't see me getting a better quality of reactions from pushing you early.
Hmm.
PREACH ITIn post 4558, DOMO wrote:If he's scum, then good chance he's being bussed to take heat off other scum.-
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Mmk, I'll do a small comparison when I have time.In post 5267, Generic wrote:My vote will move if bert (or GM now) can sell me casso as scum over desperado.
Bert ignored this request to my knowledge. But desperado appears to be on shutdown. Last game I accused him of being scum I think we argued for two pages. Here? He seems to have given up.
Curious, you asked Bert but not Muffin. Why?-
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I don't know Thor well enough to say.In post 5404, KoreanBBQ wrote:
Would scum-Casso suggest a flashlynch on his buddy near the deadline?In post 5402, goodmorning wrote:I've done some reading. I agree SSK is today's lynch. I still want Casso and Cephrir dead.
Today, my task is going to be over figuring out that messy pile of people I don't really know about.
P-EDIT
CASSO NO ES TOWN
STAHP
I will say, however,it didn't go through.
P-EDIT: We can agree to disagree then, I hope? Because I'm not reading that ISO again for a while.
P-EDIT2: Does it bother you that F-16 wasn't on wagons? And who are you asking, anyway?-
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no he isn'tIn post 5506, Bert wrote:Silver lining is Nacho is probably town for that D1 wagon on SSK and may find us another scum before all is said and done
like three of us have already said that push doesn't preclude the possibility-
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I said yesterday that I didn't have anything that concrete.
I said today that I plan to focus my attention elsewhere.
If you haven't read what I've said then how would you know whether I have or have not said anything convincing about him?
The important thing here:
I really don't like people coming up with townreads or scumreads for shitty reasons like that, regardless of who on.
Speaking of which, I need to go back and see who was of the opinion that that Desp statement was a scumslip.-
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oh nachoIn post 5536, Casso the King of Seals wrote:In post 5529, MC Maraca wrote:Ffery. There was a good case on casso made by GM, and I for one am quite trusting it, and as for mara, well, SHE made that vote, not me.Vote: MC Maraca
Call this vote on you symbolic because the GM case on me is shit and everyone knows it.
it's not the greatest case ever and is no thing of beauty but you two are good players, there's not likely a good case to be had on you
but you are scum.-
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Explicitly, I am masons with MC. The number of masons is something more sharable upon one of our deaths, I would think.In post 5756, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:Regarding the Mason claim, I'd like an explicit claim from GoodMorning stating that you are Masons with MC and MC alone just to be safe.
More reading, I kinda lean Town on SAD.-
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In post 5537, Casso the King of Seals wrote:Thor is around. I've taken full control of posting because it was closer to how Thor wanted this hydra to function and I've had time to do it.In post 5781, Casso the King of Seals wrote:Actually, we haven't discussed Mafia in like...forever.
Meh, if he has a town read than just call it hydra dissonance and lulz, but I'm happier being on the big wagon anyway.-
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When did I pull BoP?In post 5838, Ms Marangal wrote:He will lead mis-lynches on town, as town. Him not having a single strong scum-read isn't a means for concern, and frankly it's Burden of Proficiency. That's pretty much all I've heard RE scumcho and it's all GM can give me at best. Cabd believed that the points I touched upon for towncho wasn't good enough so I gave him a chance to directly interact with him, and hoped he could see exactly what I see but :/
I don't do that anymore.
Quite frankly my biggest issues with them are their dissonance and a general bad feeling over most of their early posts. And, as I said in the QT, I'll be happy to go into it more tomorrow. Today is my Casso-off day.-
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In post 5873, Titus wrote:Muffin that fenceshit made my eyes bleed water.
For a second I was wondering why these two posts shouted "SCUM" so loudly.In post 5874, Titus wrote:A few thoughts from the end of the day 1.
First, why was Varsoon the deadline lynch? There were larger wagons at the time Mastin's disbanded. Also, why wasn't Varsoon given a chance to claim? I am not at BBMolla's lynch without claim is a policy lynch but damn. I know 12 hours and all but that's how PR's get lynched.
Second, Mastin should be announcing his heal target from last night and other prior nights today. If a watcher/tracker can subtly verify him, that would make me feel better about Mastin.
Then I went back and checked the replacement.
Now I am unsurprised.
Vote: Titus-
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I'll come back to this when I have time.In post 5897, Casso the King of Seals wrote:@Godmorning - can you walk me through how what Titus is doing looks scummy? Because I don't see it at all, so maybe others are also missing it and a step by step explanation could help us all understand.-
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I also felt weird about it, but do you really think Scum-F16 would be so blatant? I mean, none of us are stupid.In post 5912, Casso the King of Seals wrote:The hangup for me was that he asked the Masons, functionally, if there was a third mason and who was it. I can think of reasons that is helpful to scum, but I can't think of any that are helpful to town. Do you think that's me being crazy, him just being silly, or him mining for scumvantage info?
1. You can take the condescending tone and shove it.In post 5897, Casso the King of Seals wrote:@Godmorning - can you walk me through how what Titus is doing looks scummy? Because I don't see it at all, so maybe others are also missing it and a step by step explanation could help us all understand.
2. Here are the posts:
Problems -In post 5873, Titus wrote:Muffin that fenceshit made my eyes bleed water.
A. Muffin wasn't particularly fencesitting.
B. Buzzword scumhunting rather than any real contribution.
C. Fails to demonstrate that fencesitting from Muffin would be cause for concern.
D. If it weren't Titus, the lack of a vote here would also be a bit pingy.
E. This post comes before the next post.
Problems -In post 5874, Titus wrote:A few thoughts from the end of the day 1.
First, why was Varsoon the deadline lynch? There were larger wagons at the time Mastin's disbanded. Also, why wasn't Varsoon given a chance to claim? I am not at BBMolla's lynch without claim is a policy lynch but damn. I know 12 hours and all but that's how PR's get lynched.
Second, Mastin should be announcing his heal target from last night and other prior nights today. If a watcher/tracker can subtly verify him, that would make me feel better about Mastin.
A. If you're reading closely enough to know where the wagons are, you're reading closely enough to see people's stated reasoning for them.
B. The last time I saw a post like this (vague shame you lynched a pr boo), I made it. It was my first Scum game. Does it have to come from Scum? No. Does it look like it? Oh yes.
C. With such concern about SSK's targets, why not just ISO him and see if he had claimed them? The people in this game are competent enough to have forced the issue if he hadn't, so the info was obviously going to be there. His ISO is only 77 posts so it's not like it would take long, and in any case Ctrl+f "protect" shows it within four results.
D. I also enjoy the "I would love for a tracker or watcher to out themselves! BUT SUBTLY"
i. I mean, any outing in this playerlist, especially with heavy analytics like ffery alive, would be about as subtle as a cat in a kitchen.
A better question is, how isn't it scummy?-
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Which is why I totally didn't say anything about it in my response to him.In post 5954, Casso the King of Seals wrote:
As far as I'm aware I'm the only one who decided to call him on it and point out that it was bad. So, maybe I'm the stupid one, but clearly he was getting away with it just fine up to that point, so at that stage how risky/obvious was it?In post 5952, goodmorning wrote:I also felt weird about it, but do you really think Scum-F16 would be so blatant? I mean, none of us are stupid.
Scumtells are always obvious after they are called out, just like breadcrumbs. My breadcrumbs are all quite obvious...once I point out it was a crumb. But I've never had any scum team catch my crumbs before. I submit the same effect is in play here. Yes, what he did was obviously bad. But I think it took me saying something for people to note it.
OH WAIT
Well I apologise for taking it that way then.
Please don't project insult onto me. When I try to insult people I'm usually pretty blatant about it, so your aggravated response kind of left me awkward in wanting to reply to it, but unsure how to reply to it sensibly without being hostile right back. I wasn't trying to be hostile, I am now wanting to be hostile because you were.In post 5952, goodmorning wrote:1. You can take the condescending tone and shove it.
So shove that, I suppose.
In post 5952, goodmorning wrote:A. Muffin wasn't particularly fencesitting.
B. Buzzword scumhunting rather than any real contribution.
C. Fails to demonstrate that fencesitting from Muffin would be cause for concern.
D. If it weren't Titus, the lack of a vote here would also be a bit pingy.
E. This post comes before the next post.
I am saying that Titus pushed off on this post specifically over any other from the recent past. Rather than attempt to engage in any sort of discussion, she says "you are fencesitting and that is bad". There's no analysis or even a pretension of giving a shit about the issue. There's no questioning, there's no addressing of what she thinks he's fencesitting on exactly.A. Depends on your definition. I wouldn't call what he was saying fencesitting, but he was abdicating responsibility to solve a conundrum. If Titus had called it 'failure to engage to find the truth' would you have found the call as objectionable? I don't feel you're trying to understand the expressed issue, and instead just are stopping at a definition hangup and acting like that's far enough.
She picked this post of all posts, and yet had nothing even remotely interesting to add to the discussion.
As to your point, Muffin didn't abdicate responsibility so much as admit a present sense of uncertainty, based on the lack of evidence on your slot either way.
He didn't say he was stopping trying to read you. He said he couldn't make a coherent case at this time.
I have no problems with that, as I currently feel much the same about you.
I also have no problems with the fact that Titus hasn't called me on it, but only Muffin. I assume she hasn't read the bits of the game in which I was posting.
I certainly think so.B. Which, sadly, comes from town all the time. i know, I mislynch them for it on a regular basis. The question is - was that the goal of what Titus was doing or not?
Again, this was her big opening post, and it's useless masquerading as content.C. You failed to ask him to demonstrate it and yet called him scummy for it without trying to seek his logic. I agree that shutting down at a quick conclusion is bad, but I think you're doing the same thing here as Titus is there. It's bad play, assuredly. It's only possibly scummy play though.
I don't know. Most people, if they come in with more than "hi I am reading," I would expect to lay down a vote there. I have a feeling Titus wouldn't, based on prior games as a more reserved voter.D. Well...it is Titus, so this is meaningless then?
But I don't know.
I'm trying to say it's a timing issue, and also makes the contentlessness of this post worse.E. You don't seem to connect them again. Did I miss something that was going to be here?
In post 5952, goodmorning wrote:A. If you're reading closely enough to know where the wagons are, you're reading closely enough to see people's stated reasoning for them.
B. The last time I saw a post like this (vague shame you lynched a pr boo), I made it. It was my first Scum game. Does it have to come from Scum? No. Does it look like it? Oh yes.
C. With such concern about SSK's targets, why not just ISO him and see if he had claimed them? The people in this game are competent enough to have forced the issue if he hadn't, so the info was obviously going to be there. His ISO is only 77 posts so it's not like it would take long, and in any case Ctrl+f "protect" shows it within four results.
D. I also enjoy the "I would love for a tracker or watcher to out themselves! BUT SUBTLY"
i. I mean, any outing in this playerlist, especially with heavy analytics like ffery alive, would be about as subtle as a cat in a kitchen.
That's fair.A. I don't think that's what Titus was saying there. The way I read it the point was to express that it was scum driven, and probably scum driven on the back end.
Yes, I'm saying the tone of it and the "boo you lynched a pr" sentiments look bad to me.B. So it looks scummy to you on a surface level...I feel that's all you're saying here...?
Who has identified that Titus is lazy, and when?C. I agree with this, I think we have identified that Titus is lazy. Do you see that as a scumtell or a playstyle tell?
I don't think of Titus as a lazy player at all. Me? Definitely. Titus? I've not seen it.
A big one is body of work. Cephrir has been much scummier than F16, imo.D. I also felt weird about it, but do you really think Scum-F16Titus would be so blatant? I mean, none of us are stupid... But actually I agree with you on this one, it does look like an attempt to slow down and perhaps delay the Mafia wagon and I do find that scummy and I'd even missed the Tracker fish till you pointed it out....I'll admit these last couple also include my issues with Falcon, which you disagree with across the board it seems? I'm curious why you love the Titus case but disagree with my Falcon case? At heart, aren't they the same case?
The other, of course, is the Cabd-stenuating circumstances and the fact that there is already knowledge of at least 2 Masons' existence.
Well, as with most scum cases that are longer than 1-2 sentences I think you have a lot of meaningless fluff in there trying to make it look more considered and developed than it is. I feel like the core issues are best summed up as;[/quote]In post 5952, goodmorning wrote:A better question is, how isn't it scummy?
I think we probably are going to end up agreeing to disagree on this.
Yeah, basically what I said above are my 2 biggest issues with the issue comparison.Can you address the point I noted about how similar your Titus issues are to my Falcon issues?
P-EDIT:
SORRY, I FORGOT WORDS ARE TRADEMARKED AFTER ONE PERSON USES THEM
I GUESS YOU CAN'T USE "TRADEMARK" NOW-
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I MISSED THISIn post 5955, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:@ Goodmorning, and KBBQ, I asked for the number of Masons because I wanted to hold Cabd to a definite claim and didn't want any behind the scenes shenanigans to screw us over. For further reference:In post 5713, MC Maraca wrote:I'm around.
PSA: If anyone would like to flip out and get paranoid on my mason status now, given the events of mini 1531, speak now or forever hold your peace.
Also, Nacho we need to talk.In post 5715, MC Maraca wrote:I won by getting a mason to fakeclaim masons with me, nightkilled her before she could reveal the trick, and dominated. It's in coney island.
I (apparently) might be one of the few people who doesn't go all crazy when Cabd starts to gambit, and I certainly wouldn't trust him enough to claim he is anything he is not.
I still don't know why my confirmation of his long-standing Mason claim would require you to know how many Masons there are.-
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Most of the stuff in the wall is stuff I think we just disagree on.
I've picked out the bits that I think could use a bit more discussion.
So you think "I want to lynch them" isn't a strong enough stance in and of itself? I disagree.In post 5967, Casso the King of Seals wrote:
I disagree here also. Falcon didn't abdicate responsibility with reading me because he at least claimed he could read the slot through Nacho (I'll admit I think that feels weak simply because...well, there's a lot of Nacho to read and if he was going to get a read then...pony up big man.)In post 5961, goodmorning wrote:As to your point, Muffin didn't abdicate responsibility so much as admit a present sense of uncertainty, based on the lack of evidence on your slot either way.
He didn't say he was stopping trying to read you. He said he couldn't make a coherent case at this time.
Muffin didn't do that, he basically said 'my case is gut and I don't feel like debating it with geist because I think their case is gut too and I suppose we just disagree' and he does this...as part of a stated push on this slot.
So, he thinks we're scummy.
He's going to vote us.
He's not going to try to explain the case beyond 'gut'
He is going to attack us for...well, what is in my opinion an action he decided happened with no evidence to support him.
And he's okay with that as the way of life in this reality.
I think that's abdicating everything and the kitchen sink - where do you see him owning to anything besides 'I want to lynch them'?
As for owning things:
-owned the stance with a vote
-owned the fact that it's primarily a gut case
That's pretty much as far as I want to get on this. I don't find him Town enough to want to defend him any harder, and I don't really like being put in that position.
If you want to discuss the fact that people in general don't have much evidence on you either way, we can take it generic.
I'm not looking for spiffy here. I'm looking for "in some way useful, even if only vaguely."
I do not wish to argue that the post was good. I just tend to consider useless opening posts as null. Frankly I don't like it when people call a spiffy looking replace in post to be 'so town!' either, so maybe this is just a thing between us, but I don't think enough has been seen to call *that post* scummy.In post 5961, goodmorning wrote:Again, this was her big opening post, and it's useless masquerading as content.
Games I watched:
What game(s) are you using for this stance?In post 5961, goodmorning wrote:I don't think of Titus as a lazy player at all. Me? Definitely. Titus? I've not seen it.
N1408 - reasonably active, reasonably informative
Games I was dead in:
O496 - probably the most active person alive after her replace-in, also did most of the setup spec work
Games I was alive in:
O526 - despite replacing in and being lynched D1, had 100+ posts. Granted that D1 was pretty long, but only 5 people posted more.
You might be selling me with this one.In post 5961, goodmorning wrote:and the fact that there is already knowledge of at least 2 Masons' existence.
But Nacho wants to debate in walls every time we talk Cephrir, so I may let him field that. I don't think ti will fly far though.[/quote]
That's fine.
I disagree that they are comparable actions regardless of my read.I am not the biggest fan that the core of the difference between the two actions is 'I was already scum reading one slot and not so much the other' though. A scum tell should either be an issue or not regardless of past concept of a slot. You can and should assess motive, but prior read shouldn't come into it in my opinion. Scum players don't usually gak up a lot, they gak up a small handful of times a day and you need to spot them at that point.
We've had enough days by now that that shouldn't be a problem.-
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goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
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goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
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goodmorning AnySurvivorAny
- Survivor
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