NY 169: The EPIC XD Mafia Game of Greatness (Game Over)

[Empire]

Day 7, Votecount 5

Norlkaz (1)

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Ser Arthur Dayne

Ser Arthur Dayne (1)

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Norlkaz

Sakura Hana (1)

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KoreanBBQ

Not Voting (6)

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Casso the King of Seals, Ms Marangal, pieguyn, goodmorning, Sakura Hana, Prophylaxis

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch! Deadline is on March 8th at 3:25 PM EST or in (expired on 2014-03-08 16:22:01).

Mod Notes

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Nero Cain head of KoreanBBQ is V/LA until next week. Ms Marangal is V/LA for one week.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

pdodge. no energy atm

I'm townreading BBQ mostly bc of GIF. I don't wanna out the exact tell I'm using. there was also the SSK wagon and BBQ was one of the main people who pushed for SSK flashlynch D1

Sakura and Norl are both town. mb I just have a weak spot for "I can't do this as scum" arguments but I tend to sympathize with that bc my scumgame is complete shit. I think I'm fine with SAD but I wanna double check some things first. either way the last scum should be in {Casso, Proph, SAD} and bc I'm getting townvibes from Proph I'm leaning towards Casso x SAD

more later

Umm wtf? Are you going to become useless again? Because weren't you the one strongly arguing that Casso can't be scum if Sakura isn't

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

(Yes I'm still independently okay with a Casso lynch but that's not the point)

[Norlkaz]

That ssk v bbq vc is somewhat favorable for bbq and a bit unfavorable for pieguy who looked like floating from vote to vote without own significant opinion and proph who was part of making bbq compete with ssk. Ssk was mostly successor wagon rather than counter. Bbq gets a few points for driving on ssk there.

[Sakura Hana]

prod dodge (or something)

[goodmorning]

SSK might have warranted a counterwagon on a lesser Scum too, as he was Encryptor, was my thought, but now I kinda think I'm just being paranoid.

[Empire]

Prodding Casso the King of Seals.

[Norlkaz]

It's not my experience that scum put any particular extra effort on protecting their PRs; encryptor particularly isn't very important compared to a goon.
As I said early it also wasn't much of a This wagon Vs That one situation as 'this one came after that one.'
Proph's slot was one of the only votes that could be described as helping BBQ wagon fight SSK wagon.

[goodmorning]

Some people rate daytalk quite highly. In fact, I seem to recall that some people balance Encryptors as carrying an extra Mafia member.

Now, I'm not saying everyone finds daytalk so valuable, but I could see that as a possibility here.

[Casso the King of Seals]

@Casso:

what's your current read on Sakura?

also walk me through your Sakura read throughout the game. why were you initially scumreading her and what were your thoughts at the time where you backed off?

I was initially scumreading Sakura because early play interactions didn't seem like the usual early play interactions: she was mostly letting everyone else sort out the people she usually hyper focuses on sorting out, she wasn't interacting with me the usual way based on excuses that weren't making sense (oh I'm not sheeping you based on a game where you played badly but I will sheep you while that game is going on). When I backed off, it was a strong flip: the way she responded to the pressure on her was so obviously and poignantly town that it took what was a pretty good confidence level initially and then grounded it into dust. I kept her talking just to make sure that this wasn't the game where she was able to pull that sort of thing, but all the drive was taken out of that wagon the moment she fully responded to it. I think I've had my quiet paranoid moments about her from time to time, but nothing that's added up to anything significant at all, and nothing that overpowers that initial town read.

[Casso the King of Seals]

Actually

Vote: Casso

I genuinely don't think nacho is bad enough to enter the game with a vote on me. He's doing that thing that scum do where they try to act confident in their reads.

Why is a vote on you bad?

Take a brief moment to indulge in an individual mental exercise where you try to read the game and THEN attempt to analyze it.

I would like a non-bullshit answer to this one.

Again, read the game.

If you really think my push on muffin was a bus then I really can't help you.

I guess you can't help me, then.

[Casso the King of Seals]

lol @ Norl's weak ass attempt at calling us scum. When I get back I might bother refuting that steaming pile of shit but for now...

@GIF The reason our vote is sitting on Hana is 'cause she's unclaimed while we are in massclaim and she's posted twice and ignored the massclaim so she's acting like she's oblivious to what's going on and that's fake as fuck. I was willing to agree with you that her day1 refusal to claim was a towntell but that's supposedly also what her scum game is. Hana scum=fake town tells.

Discuss!

I also need to extend my V/LA to next week. I'm moving but AT&T can't come till Friday! If that's to long you can replace me

I don't think your reasons for voting Hana are very good.

[Casso the King of Seals]

Though if you want to take a step in the earning-llama's trust direction Casso, you are welcome to inform these good people that I have over the last week or two annihilated any possibility I had of being scum.

I'm very glad that the Norlkaz that I was waiting for all this time has finally appeared. I will be more satisfied when you've found scum and declared them, but the chances of you being scum are sailing pretty quickly south, which excites me.

[Casso the King of Seals]

Some people rate daytalk quite highly. In fact, I seem to recall that some people balance Encryptors as carrying an extra Mafia member.

Now, I'm not saying everyone finds daytalk so valuable, but I could see that as a possibility here.

I have never cared about what role the shitty player I'm bussing has.

[Casso the King of Seals]

I am also doubting my townread on BBQ and need GiF to appear and make it all better.

[Casso the King of Seals]

I have a few doubts on Proph slot, but not many.

[Prophylaxis]

V/LA for a week

I want to see a case compiled for KBBQ because Early game really did feel like town-Nero, and mid-game, and some of late-game too though I'm not really conviced enough to want to defend him as I had done in Mastins game

Yeah, I want to see a case too, if anyone feels strongly enough about KBBQ!scum. Again, I don't think he's scum.

Wow, this game is so dead that people are going V/LA for a week? (I'm rather unenthused for this gamestate as well, so no blame there)

pdodge. no energy atm

I'm townreading BBQ mostly bc of GIF. I don't wanna out the exact tell I'm using. there was also the SSK wagon and BBQ was one of the main people who pushed for SSK flashlynch D1

Sakura and Norl are both town. mb I just have a weak spot for "I can't do this as scum" arguments but I tend to sympathize with that bc my scumgame is complete shit. I think I'm fine with SAD but I wanna double check some things first. either way the last scum should be in {Casso, Proph, SAD} and bc I'm getting townvibes from Proph I'm leaning towards Casso x SAD

more later

I.. mostly agree with this? To be fair when I look at Norlkaz's posts they're still ultimately null but I'm willing to take him up on the "things I can't fake as scum" stuff - to be clear, since the gamestate is so dry right now, I'm willing to clear Norl based on lazy analysis + haven't read the thread since I replaced in.

That ssk v bbq vc is somewhat favorable for bbq and a bit unfavorable for pieguy who looked like floating from vote to vote without own significant opinion and proph who was part of making bbq compete with ssk. Ssk was mostly successor wagon rather than counter. Bbq gets a few points for driving on ssk there.

Okay...?

Like, pieguy hopping on the tail end of the SSK wagon looks bad for him but he's in my townie pile due to his behavior.

What do you mean by "proph who was part of making bbq compete with ssk"?

:/

SSK might have warranted a counterwagon on a lesser Scum too, as he was Encryptor, was my thought, but now I kinda think I'm just being paranoid.

Have there been common instances of scum counterwagoning other scum, on mafiascum.net?

I bring this up because it's literally only happened once in the 40+ games I've played.

Ehh.

---

- Where is Sakura Hana? She's done nothing memorable for me.
- Is it normal for Casso to pop in, multipost with some thoughts, and leave? Because I'm seeing "hey hey I think X is town" but.. his vote isn't on anyone, and glancing at his last few posts I see no concrete scumreads, or even "since I think everyone is town I'll vote SAD".
- I've liked pieguyn's behavior, but I realize that I'm saying this yet not really backing it up with concrete evidence (like, the only thing I remember right now is that zMuffinMan buddied up to pieguyn). If I have time I'll go and examine this slot again.
- Norlkaz I'm willing to listen to for now. Everyone says that they're townreading him and I can see the townie stint he pulled in CT2, despite his posts not really making too much sense to me.
- KoreanBBQ is always absent and again I don't remember what they've done. Still willing to clear based on D1 wagon unless I see evidence of scum counterwagoning scum on 'Scum.
- Ser Arthur Dayne I'm not getting the votes for. Do I have to remind everybody that he pointed out that zMuffinMan had no interactions with Generic, and had good (read: not scum on scum) interactions with zMuffinMan on Day 5?)

Vote Casso

. My bullet point on him makes me cringe.

Also willing to vote for Sakura - I don't remember her at all.

[Empire]

Prodding KoreanBBQ.

[pieguyn]

Umm wtf? Are you going to become useless again? Because weren't you the one strongly arguing that Casso can't be scum if Sakura isn't

yeah that's exactly the problem I'm having

I'm p sure about BBQ/Sakura town and Norl is town. leaving {you, Casso, Proph}. but I keep thinking Proph and Casso are town and now I'm really confused bc I can't figure out where I'm going wrong. that assumption is the first thing I'm reconsidering

that and I can't figure out any scumteam that makes a lot of sense. my first inclination is that Casso is scum and the scumteam powerbussed the shit out of each other for some god knows what reason but that seems really illogical and I don't think they'd do that. I'm trying to figure out what the hell's going on here but I literally have not had enough energy recently to do that

what's your current read on Proph?

@Casso:

what's your current read on Sakura?

also walk me through your Sakura read throughout the game. why were you initially scumreading her and what were your thoughts at the time where you backed off?

I was initially scumreading Sakura because early play interactions didn't seem like the usual early play interactions: she was mostly letting everyone else sort out the people she usually hyper focuses on sorting out, she wasn't interacting with me the usual way based on excuses that weren't making sense (oh I'm not sheeping you based on a game where you played badly but I will sheep you while that game is going on). When I backed off, it was a strong flip: the way she responded to the pressure on her was so obviously and poignantly town that it took what was a pretty good confidence level initially and then grounded it into dust. I kept her talking just to make sure that this wasn't the game where she was able to pull that sort of thing, but all the drive was taken out of that wagon the moment she fully responded to it. I think I've had my quiet paranoid moments about her from time to time, but nothing that's added up to anything significant at all, and nothing that overpowers that initial town read.

1. what do you think about Norl's point about your post where you backed off her?
2. really? bc I saw a bunch of markers of town-her from back on D1 although mb I'm biased bc I attribute a lot of things to this being a large game (at the same time I can't read her for shit so I might be terribly in the wrong about this). it definitely felt like she was trying to sort you two and her excuse for not sheeping you came across town to me and not like smth she'd think of as scum. I'd also think you'd realize she wouldn't put as much effort in the game given her RL

[Ms Marangal]

Yeah, I want to see a case too, if anyone feels strongly enough about KBBQ!scum. Again, I don't think he's scum.

Wow, this game is so dead that people are going V/LA for a week? (I'm rather unenthused for this gamestate as well, so no blame there)

this game isn't why I'm going V/LA, I'm V/LA site wide

anywho, I don't see anything incriminating on your points of casso

[pieguyn]

also can someone who can read Bert tell me if he could possibly have been scum here?

bc I can't make any sense out of this. again it seems like a case of "can't do this as scum" but this is getting to the point where there's no one left and the gamestate makes more sense with him as scum. and Titus's meta read on Proph also makes sense in that context

I'm still not done reanalyzing things and I should have enough energy to look at shit again tomorrow

Sakura:

you had a scumread on bert right? can you talk to me about this?

[Norlkaz]

I didn't finish reading Bert / Proph today.
His vote for F16 is somewhat alarming for me, as are a few other things, but it's not at all conclusive and he has certainly put a lot of work in / done some town sounding things too.
Deadline is like 4 days away. I suspect I won't be sure of both scum by the end of today but I got a very strong positive on my last SAD readthrough so if I can get confident enough when I revisit that we should at least have only one left tomorrow, which should decomplicate the problem a lot.
And even if we do hit scum today there's a very solid chance I'll live to tomorrow in which case getting the second one is DGAF.

[goodmorning]

SSK might have warranted a counterwagon on a lesser Scum too, as he was Encryptor, was my thought, but now I kinda think I'm just being paranoid.

Have there been common instances of scum counterwagoning other scum, on mafiascum.net?

I bring this up because it's literally only happened once in the 40+ games I've played.

Ehh.

Does it matter how frequent it is, seeing as we know it's possible?

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura: you had a scumread on bert right? can you talk to me about this?

I made a case on him somewhere around Day 3 or so (before he replaced out).

[Prophylaxis]

Yeah, I want to see a case too, if anyone feels strongly enough about KBBQ!scum. Again, I don't think he's scum.

Wow, this game is so dead that people are going V/LA for a week? (I'm rather unenthused for this gamestate as well, so no blame there)

this game isn't why I'm going V/LA, I'm V/LA site wide

anywho, I don't see anything incriminating on your points of casso

This is why I hate endgames like this - when a low power game runs long, it always favors the scum, because everyone left inevitably looks scummy and you're just throwing darts to figure out whom is the worst.

Like, we have the masons, and I have a couple of solid town reads, but I'm fairly sure I can abandon any of them in short notice, because I have no idea on how scum on your site navigate the endgame. Like, look at KoreanBBQ - he *should* be cleared based on that D1 wagon, but his absence makes me nervous. Casso and Sakura just happen to be first on my PoE lynch; that's why I want to lynch either of them. And I have no idea why Sakura is claimstalling..?

Does it matter how frequent it is, seeing as we know it's possible?

I just want to see some completed games.

No idea who to lynch atm, i was pretty sure Titus was scum =/

This is a rather self-aware thing to say, and not a good one to admit as scum.

Hm.