Mini 1524: Olympian Gods Mafia - Game Over

MattP · Post Post #23 (isolation #0) » Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:41 am

If someone puts wisdom at l-1 I'm going to hammer

But actually

MattP · Post Post #49 (isolation #1) » Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:09 pm

Pirate mollie, I was annoyed with the way you treated me in mykos game. However I'm going to be much more calm and rational this game than I've been before. I think taking a break from games was good.

MattP · Post Post #53 (isolation #2) » Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:23 pm

In post 50, Wisdom wrote:So Matt, if you were willing to hammer me, why don't you vote me?

You think I was going to hammer you then?

MattP · Post Post #57 (isolation #3) » Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:26 pm

In post 54, Wisdom wrote: @Matt
I don't know, you said you would

I'm simply surprised you didn't consider it being a lie

MattP · Post Post #60 (isolation #4) » Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:30 pm

In post 59, Wisdom wrote:
In post 57, MattP wrote:
In post 54, Wisdom wrote: @Matt
I don't know, you said you would
I'm simply surprised you didn't consider it being a lie
Maybe I did

Righty-o

MattP · Post Post #69 (isolation #5) » Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:14 pm

Aw man pirate you couldn't have waited just a little longer?

MattP · Post Post #75 (isolation #6) » Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:48 pm

In post 71, pirate mollie wrote:its been an hour

Content wise, you could've waited for one or two more bad posts

@Nacho: I didn't say I have a scum read on you

MattP · Post Post #80 (isolation #7) » Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:20 pm

In post 77, Nachomamma8 wrote: I thought you were using mollie's interactions with me in order to read me. You not using them to read me at all is incredibly disappointing

I have no idea how you're reading my posts

MattP · Post Post #118 (isolation #8) » Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:12 pm

VOTE: Shos

MattP · Post Post #132 (isolation #9) » Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:09 pm

In post 131, Malakittens wrote:My theory about MattP has totally been proven wrong so scratch any type of read I may or may not have had on him.

Oh, now I'm interested! What was this theory

MattP · Post Post #157 (isolation #10) » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:19 pm

I've been keeping reads close to chest, but Mala is town and this isn't worth the petty banter. Although I do appreciate you guys having destructive conversations instead of me early-game

MattP · Post Post #160 (isolation #11) » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:32 pm

In post 159, Wisdom wrote:Why are you trying to discredit mollie's read?

You could have coupled that question with a vote, yes?

MattP · Post Post #162 (isolation #12) » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:34 pm

In post 161, Wisdom wrote:I could, if I felt he was scummier than mala.

Well I'm not gonna try to dissuade you, I'll let the duck quack for itself.

MattP · Post Post #312 (isolation #13) » Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:33 pm

In post 300, shos wrote:@Matt, why are you voting me?

Well, because you're mafia

MattP · Post Post #314 (isolation #14) » Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:13 pm

In post 313, Whiskers wrote:Also, does anybody want to remind me why shos is scum?

I think I would find it more helpful if you reminded me why he's not scum so that I had something concrete to reference in my response.

MattP · Post Post #316 (isolation #15) » Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:05 pm

Oh, well I think he sounds like scum. That's probably where we disagree. It's his melodrama of his tone and fixation on inconsequential, theoretical arguments more so than the quantity of his text during his catchup.

But it's ok, sooner or later he'll probably accidentally post his scum role PM on the thread or something and we can all lynch him without much of a discussion.

MattP · Post Post #319 (isolation #16) » Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:54 pm

In post 317, Whiskers wrote:
In post 316, MattP wrote:Oh, well I think he sounds like scum. That's probably where we disagree. It's his melodrama of his tone and fixation on inconsequential, theoretical arguments more so than the quantity of his text during his catchup.
Erp-- you probably don't like me much here then either, do you?

Oh, I'm sorry for giving the impression that I don't like shos much. I think he's a very nice guy. He just drew scum. Regardless, I have no possible way of comparing you with shos in any form because you're both two unique lil snowflakes in a winter wonderland

MattP · Post Post #350 (isolation #17) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:43 am

In post 320, Whiskers wrote:I didn't mean it like that-- I mean that you must think I'm scum, since your description of shos's play-- what you claim makes him scummy-- pretty much exactly describes my.... ME.

Also... Is this some new thing where every player has individual tells and nothing else matters? Like, when there's a new player, you all dance around shrugging violently, unable to read them at all? I'm not sure I like that-- I'm not going to be able to take your word for it, that shos is scummy for the "melodrama of his tone and fixation on inconsequential, theoretical arguments," if none of it also makes ME scummy.

I won't be able to take anything any one of you says seriously, in fact.

What I'm seeing, with the Nacho-Wisdom bit from before, and now with the MattP-shos bit:
Player 1 wrote:Whoa! Malakittens is totally [ALIGNMENT] because she's a cat!

Whiskers wrote:Oh man, you must think
I'm
[ALIGNMENT] too, then, since I'm also a cat.

Player 1 wrote:Oh, by no means. It's only applicable when Malakittens does it.

I never said that I'm reading shos this way because I know shos's prior play. I don't remember anything about his prior play. What I'm saying is that the way he's posted in THIS game with NOTHING else to reference is scummy. I am further saying that you asking me to somehow make my assessment mathematical and foolproof and use it to additionally incriminate you is ridiculous since there's no way I can state that something that shos is doing is in ALL situations scummy or that what he is doing is scummy in essence disregarding tone or the uniqueness of his posts. You are not posting verbatim the words he is posting so you can't ask me to compare your posts word for word to his.

I additionally never stated that you are a scum or town read to me, I am saying that you trying to make me compare yourself and shos on a certain checklist is impossible. That is it. Shos is scum because his posts are scummy. If you would like me to somehow articulate the reason into words, I would best describe the reason as "melodrama and inconsequential theoretical arguments". The ACTUAL reason is that his posts are scummy. Pigeonholing my reasons into discrete categories opens the room for the type of responses that you made to my post, which is why this never should have happened. Why don't you wait for Shos to post his scum role PM by mistake in the thread like I suggested earlier.

MattP · Post Post #359 (isolation #18) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:26 am

I have 7 definite town as of this point, myself included. Whiskers is in that pile. Pirate Mollie is in that pile. They shouldn't be voting each other

Wisdom is in that pile. Malakittens is in that pile. They shouldn't be voting each other. Any questions?

MattP · Post Post #360 (isolation #19) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:26 am

And that's just rereading to page 7. I haven't even gotten halfway through yet.

MattP · Post Post #364 (isolation #20) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:30 am

My reads so far nearly mirror Mala's

Town:
Malakittens
Wisdom
Pirate Mollie
ArcAngel
NachoMomma
MattP
Whiskers

Eh or hasn't posted:
Mirari
Ooba
Desperado
Penguin_Alien

SCUM:
Shos
Grimgroove

Pedit: This is still just page 8. I really would love to believe Desperado is town but I'm trying to not get ahead of myself.

MattP · Post Post #367 (isolation #21) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:32 am

Grim because every single scum read he gave on page 7 and 8 was on a town player, and since I respect Grim as a player the only way I believe he could be this delusional was if he had negative intent and was scum.

MattP · Post Post #373 (isolation #22) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:56 am

In post 244, Grimgroove wrote:I don't understand the penguin-votes from the previous page.

Townreads are coming in. shos is not one of them.

Well also btw Grimgroove scumslipped so we have GG and Shos as scum

TOWN:

Malakittens
Wisdom
Pirate Mollie
ArcAngel
NachoMomma
MattP
Whiskers
Mirari

PROBABLY TOWN BUT NEEDS TO STOP THE PIC THING REGARDLESS OF ITS ENTERTAINMENT FACTOR:
Ooba

EH:
Desperado
Penguin_Alien

SCUM:
Shos
Grimgroove

MattP · Post Post #374 (isolation #23) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:58 am

In post 244, Grimgroove wrote:I don't understand the penguin-votes from the previous page.

Townreads are coming in.
shos is not one of them.

In post 321, Grimgroove wrote: I'm not liking MattP as town much either.
My partial agreement with shos' readslist (don't see the Mirari-scum though) makes me read him as town even moreso,
though his catch-ups reminded me heavily of shos-town already
(so this is not simply an OMGUR).

MattP · Post Post #376 (isolation #24) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:04 am

In post 375, Wisdom wrote:Well, he did say that his first catchup made him think shos is scum and the later ones changed his mind.

1) Shos posts a catchup post
2) GG says Shos is not a townread
3) GG makes a post that has nothing to do with shos and shos posts another catchup and a reads list
4) You ask GG what he likes about Shos
5) GG says he likes the content of Shos's catchup posts and at best the idea of catching up could be seen as null BUT the CONTENT is towny

I don't see the part where GG says that Shos's content prior to

In post 244, Grimgroove wrote:I don't understand the penguin-votes from the previous page.

Townreads are coming in. shos is not one of them.

Is not towny

MattP · Post Post #377 (isolation #25) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:05 am

Oh sorry, I missed

3.5) GG says he likes Shos, and especially liked his catchup posts (which in 2 he had said he did not like the initial posts by shos)

GG never even brought 2 back up in his convo with you (unless I missed something)

MattP · Post Post #378 (isolation #26) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:06 am

And now that I've made this more complicated than it needs to be, in a nutshell please just refer to this to see the lie from GrimGroove

In post 374, MattP wrote:
In post 244, Grimgroove wrote:I don't understand the penguin-votes from the previous page.

Townreads are coming in.
shos is not one of them.

In post 321, Grimgroove wrote: I'm not liking MattP as town much either.
My partial agreement with shos' readslist (don't see the Mirari-scum though) makes me read him as town even moreso,
though his catch-ups reminded me heavily of shos-town already
(so this is not simply an OMGUR).

MattP · Post Post #380 (isolation #27) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:13 am

o no im out of popcorn how am i suposed 2 reed these posts lel

MattP · Post Post #382 (isolation #28) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:27 am

I just looked through his posts and couldn't find that, can you please quote it

MattP · Post Post #392 (isolation #29) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:49 am

In post 384, Wisdom wrote:
In post 324, Grimgroove wrote:That was earlier when I didn't like his first catch-up, especially him asking me to explain something I already had explained, which gave me the impression he was pretending to follow. I didn't realize he was slowly going through the topic from the beginning and hadn't read myexplanation yet. Now I've got a slight townread on him, liked his latest catch-ups and reads.
^
Here, this is the answer to my "You said you're not townreading shos. Are you scumreading him?"

That's fine, the game would have been less fun if he made such a stupid scumslip anyway. [:

Pedit: Shos, I can't be bothered with explaining all of my reads. I'm too busy reading your huge catchup walls and figuring out how to make my "eighth" post of the game. Oh, there, I did it!

MattP · Post Post #398 (isolation #30) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:03 am

In post 391, Wisdom wrote:ok maybe it's on purpose

It's so much being flaunted in our faces that it could only serve as WIFOM, should shos (especially) or GG be scum. Therefore, I would just disregard it. I still think GG is scum for his reads and there's a slight issue I have with his tone in general that I couldn't be bothered to expand upon. However, I don't think he's a smart lynch today and if he is town he'll eventually, hopefully prove to be useful.

In post 394, Wisdom wrote:Matt, why do you think Arc and Nacho are town?

I'm so bad at explaining reads, and once again I'm pigeonholing. Nacho is snarky and unguarded. He's just doing what he wants and not worrying about what other people think, but additionally there's something going on in his mind, so he's both actively "thinking" and "doing".

ArcAngel is just ArcAngel, when she's scum she's like the town version but the major difference is that if I got a scum-Arcangel for Christmas I'd return it IMMEDIATELY and if I got a town-ArcAngel for Christmas I'd have initial reservations but I'd end up loving it in the end? ._.

MattP · Post Post #406 (isolation #31) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:16 am

In post 401, Whiskers wrote:And while I'm sure it'll come back to bite me in the arse, when shos eventually flips scum, I'm not comfortable lynching him right now.

It's ok, I'll forgive you [: We all make mistakes

Pedit: Now now Shos, I have plenty of time to explain my reads to my townreads, just not you.

MattP · Post Post #415 (isolation #32) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:43 am

I know you never voted PM, whiskers. I also know Mala never voted Wisdom. Sorry for the confusing syntax!

I'm quite dismayed that you're overlooking certain posts I made as trash when they were actually scumhunting, like my early interaction with wisdom, and my minor aggression towards nacho to scope out his behavior towards me. This whole game I've been slowly building a read base while staying back a bit because I think my old early game strategy of being over-involved was obnoxious and unproductive. I'm quite confident about my reads and think that this strategy was better.

MattP · Post Post #428 (isolation #33) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:30 am

Can't really post right now but I wanna apologize in advance nacho for when I vote you out of paranoia in like a hundred pages from now

MattP · Post Post #429 (isolation #34) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:11 am

In post 424, Mirari wrote:
In post 373, MattP wrote:Well also btw Grimgroove scumslipped so we have GG and Shos as scum
How is it a scum slip? My opinion was that it was a preemptive announcement. Finally you realize I am town. What can I do to convince you ooba is town?
I'm with you on the penguin scum read. Why is her vote still on me? She has forgotten about her vote.

This confusion was cleared up later between myself and Wisdom.

I am pretty certain Ooba is town, as I said prior. I am LESS certain than I could be if he stopped using pictures and wrote more text. He'll eventually do this and within the next few RL days I'll settle my feelings. I don't really need convincing as of this moment.

I don't have Penguin as a scumread, I have him as "Eh" along with Desperado. Grim and Shos are my scumreads.

MattP · Post Post #430 (isolation #35) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:13 am

(however 427 makes me read P_A as scum. I think given a Grim/Penguin/Shos scumteam, where all three are in the spotlight, it's not unworldly that they would all mass buddy to try to get themselves out of such a ridiculously dire situation on page 18 of the game. Regardless, Shos is the only player I would lynch today, and I can worry more about relational tells tomorrow.)

MattP · Post Post #432 (isolation #36) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:19 am

It seems that a strange rift has formed between one group of people (Shos, Grim, Whiskers, Penguin) and another (everyone else) where the former is scumreading Mala, myself, and Wisdom; and the latter is scumreading Shos (and to varying degrees Penguin, Whiskers and Grim). There is essentially no fluidity between the reads of these two groups, aka there is no single person that scumreads BOTH someone from [Mala, MattP, Wisdom] and [Penguin, Whiskers, Grim, Shos].

Very strange, slightly unsettling. Potentially a great thing.

Pedit: Nacho has sheeped me before, and I thought he was scum that game, and he was town.

MattP · Post Post #433 (isolation #37) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:20 am

EBWOP: Well, I thought he was town and then scum when PoE left us in a terrible situation where pretty much everyone left was town as fuck. We chose right in the end anyway.

MattP · Post Post #438 (isolation #38) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:32 am

It doesn't matter if you're scum, you're not getting lynched today anyway, specifically because you will be useful if town. I don't care if you're screaming at Shos in your Mafia QT (or maybe you don't have daytalk! Gotta avoid "scumslipping" about mechanic knowledge or Whiskers may Mr. Literal me) and backpedaling all of the damage he did while you were gone, or if you genuinely are town and realize you had a bad read. You have plenty of time to fix it.

I don't like how you just approached the obvscum Shos in this situation. I, simultaneously, get that being wrong about a read and being fucked over by buddying in the process is awkward to navigate around as town. Just come back to be the GrimGroove I know & love, and the damage will be controlled [:

MattP · Post Post #439 (isolation #39) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:34 am

For the record, Wisdom, Grim's reaction confirms at least for me that this can't be a Grim-scum, Shos-town scenario. It's either:

Grim-town and Shos-scum
or
Grim-scum and Shos-scum

Do you agree / does that clear up any reservations about WKing?

MattP · Post Post #440 (isolation #40) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:34 am

(Or Grim-Town and Shos-Town but lel)

MattP · Post Post #446 (isolation #41) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:24 pm

In post 444, Mirari wrote:Matt, is it odd that a pseudo-bloc has formed this quickly?

Yes, why?

MattP · Post Post #451 (isolation #42) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:11 pm

In post 447, Whiskers wrote:
In post 312, MattP wrote:
In post 300, shos wrote:@Matt, why are you voting me?
Well, because you're mafia
Wow. Much content. So quality.

Ty for choosing one miniscule, inconsequential, snarky post of mine to make a point.

In post 448, Whiskers wrote:
In post 438, MattP wrote:(or maybe you don't have daytalk! Gotta avoid "scumslipping" about mechanic knowledge or Whiskers may Mr. Literal me)
Says the guy who told me to wait for shos to post his scum role PM.

Or, wait, was that a joke? Sorry. Figured it must be another "reaction test".

Yes, I wasn't being literal with either point. You're very literal. We continue in this limbo. I don't see the point you're trying to make here.

MattP · Post Post #455 (isolation #43) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:43 pm

Now now, let's be polite about who we tell to fuck whom.

MattP · Post Post #460 (isolation #44) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:30 pm

Ah, them 2:30am hesitations/insecurities

MattP · Post Post #462 (isolation #45) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:45 pm

In post 461, shos wrote:Huh?
Who/what are you talking about?

The irrational fear where you flip town and this entire time scum has been laughing their asses off. But it's ok, I think I was being too concrete about my read on you, and I think I'll try to give it a more objective read in the morning. [:

MattP · Post Post #504 (isolation #46) » Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:07 am

I think desp and whiskers are town

MattP · Post Post #518 (isolation #47) » Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:45 am

There have been a lot of very beautiful games where Kanye and I are town and immediately buddied each other hardcore because we knew, because we could read each other well and relied on that ability. People got very butthurt and called us scum. We were both town. I can provide links.

I'm reading Wisdom well. I know he's town. In fact, he's my strongest townread. He's reading me well. That's great. That's going to cause huge overlapping of reads and in-thread mason-like discussion. It happens, and it's not exclusive or selfish or scummy, having someone you can trust is very powerful. Us working together like this, even if you think we're gaining nothing from it, is astronomically beneficial. We will never lynch each other and we will defend the other hardcore, and that will prevent a mislynch we are both positive of. Anyone being annoying and bullying us for that is more likely scum trying to damage a strong town-town alliance than paranoid town trying to break apart supposed buddying.

MattP · Post Post #519 (isolation #48) » Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:48 am

In post 516, shos wrote:it sure sounds like it, tho.

for example, that first example that you gave - the 'reaction test'. well. firstly, I'm like 99% sure that this was not a reaction test, and rather it was just a bullshit lie matt was saying which is perfectly fine because that's what people say in RVS.
Matt - was it planned to be a reaction test or not?
-to confirm. then, you say that you called the RT, and pretended to not know that this is a reaction test. that sounds the most fake you can say EVER. that's really not even close.

I have no idea what you're asking here. All of my posts had meaning this entire game, sans posts where I was patting myself on the back or being snarky. My initial conversation with Wisdom was me trying to get a read on him. Similarly, my first conversation with Nacho was me trying to read him. I know Nacho well, and I got my read quickly. Wisdom was doing enough on his own, and in my convo with him, to demonstrate his alliance. I don't see how this is so confusing or deserves discussion. What is so damn wrong with us town-reading each other?

MattP · Post Post #540 (isolation #49) » Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:35 am

@Shos in 533: I thought your 517 was fake and frenetic, but I was already voting you and I ignored it because enough other interesting shit is happening in the thread right now that I didn't feel like beating a dead horse.

@Whiskers: You're not the ONLY player attacking wisdom and me. In your very special, specific case I think you're just a less focused version of Thor and I give you special exceptions for your antagonistic behaviors.

MattP · Post Post #543 (isolation #50) » Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:39 am

Also, shos is trying too hard to have a scumread. He's not HAVING a scumread, he's TRYING to have a scumread. There is a distinct difference that I think we can all appreciate given 533. In RVS that's one thing. Now it's a whole different story.

MattP · Post Post #544 (isolation #51) » Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:40 am

Whiskers, if you DON'T have a scumread on me why aren't you trying to work with me? I think I'm a pretty rational guy. It seems that if you just stopped throwing insults and snark at me and tried being cooperative it would make a whole lot more sense. Your antagonism towards nearly every player in the game is irrationally unproductive.

MattP · Post Post #548 (isolation #52) » Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:44 am

In post 546, Whiskers wrote:Idk, RVS bullshit. And if it was a reaction test-- and you recognized it as one-- I'm pretty sure the townie thing to do would be to ignore it, rather than carefully crafting your reaction to paint you in a townie light. But that's nothing I'd call you scum for. Especially considering the way it fizzled out without going anywhere...

Except instead of ignoring it he turned it around back on me by asking ME a question so that I was in the spotlight? And then I asked HIM a question about his question? And so on for a few posts. And the amazing this is that within five minutes we both had townreads on each other! Call that effective!

I literally can't wait until we're both revealed to be town

MattP · Post Post #551 (isolation #53) » Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:57 am

In post 547, shos wrote:
In post 516, shos wrote:it sure sounds like it, tho.

for example, that first example that you gave - the 'reaction test'. well. firstly, I'm like 99% sure that this was not a reaction test, and rather it was just a bullshit lie matt was saying which is perfectly fine because that's what people say in RVS.
Matt - was it planned to be a reaction test or not?
-to confirm. then, you say that you called the RT, and pretended to not know that this is a reaction test. that sounds the most fake you can say EVER. that's really not even close.

In post 522, shos wrote:You misunderstood. I asked if post 23 was a planned reaction test or not. Plain and simple.

MATT

answer please.

I was saying something extreme to get a response from someone in the game, yes. The expected response would be someone calling me out, in which case I intended to turn it back around and try to trap the player. It was easy bait, and stupid bait. It was me saying I would hammer someone carelessly so someone would go "That's dumb!" and then I'd go "You're dumb for believing it" and then see if the person squirmed. Wisdom did the first part, I employed the second expecting squirming, and he then made me realize that he was doing the same thing to me. He was baiting with a lie and trying to catch me too. He was trying to pressure me into saying something stupid, and it was a step ahead of what I was doing. I thought he was town for it and I moved on. Within the next few pages he ultra-confirmed his alignment anyway.

MattP · Post Post #562 (isolation #54) » Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:05 pm

I'm pretty well known in general for developing strong townreads quickly actually, now that I recall.

MattP · Post Post #574 (isolation #55) » Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:39 pm

And yet I have before PM. In Marketplace 2 to DeasVail and in some large theme to Amrun that I don't remember the name of off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more examples, but I wouldn't be bothered to check.

MattP · Post Post #576 (isolation #56) » Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:40 pm

Well those were more similar situations to the one with GrimGroove, not Whiskers. Whiskers is similar to how I reached out to Tierce and Tammy at points in War is Hell and that Empire game I was in with Nacho (regarding Tammy). Once again I can think of more examples.

It's pretty protown to try to reduce town havoc so I don't get why that would "freak you out"

MattP · Post Post #577 (isolation #57) » Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:41 pm

If it's a meta thing then fine, but sans meta it makes perfect sense for me to behave this way.

MattP · Post Post #584 (isolation #58) » Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:58 pm

In post 579, Nachomamma8 wrote:namely arc, groove, mirari, ooba.

It would be funny if Nacho just scumslipped in the fashion I was harking GG for prior.

It seems that "100 page away paranoia" could have occurred a lot sooner than I had imagined

_____

Pirate, I said I would be taking a different approach this game than in those games, precisely because I was destructive and unfun those games.

MattP · Post Post #595 (isolation #59) » Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:18 pm

In post 590, Whiskers wrote:If you have someone else's role PM, in addition to your own, that's information that might be useful to the town-- or at least, you should tell us you have, instead of just acting suspicious.

Oh, c'mon now!

Also, I'm not just ignoring Nacho's potential scumslip because everyone else did.

MattP · Post Post #599 (isolation #60) » Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:23 pm

If Whiskers was scum he would not point out that I'm giving him preferential treating for behaviors I'm picking at Shos for. End of story.

MattP · Post Post #601 (isolation #61) » Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:24 pm

In post 597, Wisdom wrote:What scumslip, Matt?

Ooba is town, Matt! You have to change that in your read's list and then I 100% agree with you!

Ooba is not town!

I don't want to explain why Ooba is not town right now, just forget it

MattP · Post Post #603 (isolation #62) » Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:25 pm

In post 599, MattP wrote:If Whiskers was scum he would not point out that I'm giving him preferential treating for behaviors I'm picking at Shos for. End of story.

Quoting this on new page

MattP · Post Post #605 (isolation #63) » Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:25 pm

Why can't you?

MattP · Post Post #611 (isolation #64) » Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:39 pm

In post 610, pirate mollie wrote:matt I think you are wrong about whiskers

I'm not wrong about his action. If you are saying that action doesn't make him almost positively town then SHRUG. I'm not letting him get lynched today so.

In post 609, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 605, MattP wrote:Why can't you?
just leave it at can't for now.

I don't really see a reason I need to. I've considered all of the options, and I see little potential cost in the cost-benefit paradigm of just letting this slide.

MattP · Post Post #612 (isolation #65) » Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:40 pm

On NOT letting it slide**

MattP · Post Post #615 (isolation #66) » Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:48 pm

In post 613, Nachomamma8 wrote:that's unfortunate then because you're gonna have to wait regardless

How long?

MattP · Post Post #617 (isolation #67) » Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:09 pm

In post 616, Nachomamma8 wrote:Not long. I'm probably being far too careful, but a little extra caution never hurt anyone.

k

MattP · Post Post #621 (isolation #68) » Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:18 pm

In post 620, Whiskers wrote:
In post 599, MattP wrote:If Whiskers was scum he would not point out that I'm giving him preferential treating for behaviors I'm picking at Shos for. End of story.
Yeah... tbh, I would. I'd use it against you and try to get you mislynched for it.
When I
wouldn't
do it is when we were
both
scum together.

Even if you thought I wouldn't be lynched? I mean, anyone with half a brain can see I'm not getting lynched today.

I mean, it's pointless to go back and forth about this. If you say you would do it I'm not going to debate what you would do with you.

MattP · Post Post #627 (isolation #69) » Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:49 pm

In post 622, Whiskers wrote:I'd use it against you later. Just because you wouldn't be lynched
now
doesn't mean you could never be lynched.

Um I believe I was talking about now, not later, considering you did it now, not later. I'm scratchin my head right now

MattP · Post Post #654 (isolation #70) » Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:17 pm

Whiskers, if it makes you feel less alone, I no longer have a townread on Mollie [:

MattP · Post Post #656 (isolation #71) » Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:15 pm

I still think shos is the optimal lynch

MattP · Post Post #658 (isolation #72) » Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:56 pm

There's no way you don't see the arguments. You would at WORST understand our point of view but disagree with it. Your stance is so ridiculously unbelievable I am pretty certain that you're just making it up.

Also, you just simultaneously said you don't understand the case on shos and that you haven't followed the game.

VOTE: Penguin_Alien

At

best

I believe you're scum and WKing Shos-town. More likely is that Shos is your buddy and you're trying to shift focus elsewhere while not strongly committing to a Shos townread (I don't see what other's see but I'm also not really following). You also know I just dropped my PM townread and now you're pushing her softly.

Pirate Mollie is town more so than anyone if Penguin flips scum. Shos is probably scum as well.

MattP · Post Post #672 (isolation #73) » Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:02 pm

I am way too exhausted to say anything coherent right now, I'll respond after I recover from this all-nighter

MattP · Post Post #765 (isolation #74) » Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:52 am

I think it makes a lot of sense to just lynch Penguin here over Mollie or Shos

MattP · Post Post #767 (isolation #75) » Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:58 am

In post 766, Wisdom wrote:How does that make sense?

At least Pirate and Shos give a shit? Penguin is scummy and active lurking, Shos is scummy but providing content, Pirate Mollie is being her typical self that she said she wouldn't be but then slipped into anyway. Relationally Penguin is treating other people bizarrely (i.e. her soft push of Pirate and soft defense of Shos), and Shos has outgrown his Grim buddying years to a respectable degree.

MattP · Post Post #768 (isolation #76) » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:00 am

Plus, if we're three days into a game and we have a 2 week deadline and there's not much at this point to get out of Shos from pressure because believe me we've seen it all at the

very least

one can appreciate some Penguin pressure at this point.

MattP · Post Post #772 (isolation #77) » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:05 am

In post 769, Wisdom wrote:I don't know, I think she might be town, especially if mollie isn't.

She said she will post today, let's see.

Penguin either:

a) Doesn't care at all about this game
b) Is scum

I don't like when people get away with "a" for a prolonged period of time. The great thing about it is that we can correct it and immediately get an answer on "b". You can't correct Mollie's attitude as is obvious by this point. You can't correct Whisker's insufferable ability to spoil the fun of a forum game for the majority of the player list and incite destructive discussion. You can't make Shos stop being frenetic. We

can

possibly, hopefully, get Penguin to get invested in the game.

MattP · Post Post #774 (isolation #78) » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:07 am

Uh oh, walls are my weakness. Damn you Shos

*Shakes fist*

MattP · Post Post #776 (isolation #79) » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:11 am

I also now think Shos is probably town, which makes me annoyed and paranoid at the majority of the player list

MattP · Post Post #782 (isolation #80) » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:26 am

In post 778, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 776, MattP wrote:I also now think Shos is probably town, which makes me annoyed and paranoid at the majority of the player list
why? what was so good about the latest wall?

I didn't read it. I'm a sucker for walls though. Hey, do you think Wisdom just really really is blindly buddying me because he trusts me or because he's scum and took advantage of having a vocal player on his side and has been subtly attempting to redirect my pushes to town members?

MattP · Post Post #788 (isolation #81) » Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:08 am

yeah thats what really set me off, especially because I knew my reason was silly and he buddied right away. I just think it's very statistically crazy that he would just so happen to townread you for legit reason the moment I did for a completely different, silly reason

MattP · Post Post #799 (isolation #82) » Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:19 am

In post 788, MattP wrote:yeah thats what really set me off, especially because I knew my reason was silly and he buddied right away. I just think it's very statistically crazy that he would just so happen to townread you for legit reason the moment I did for a completely different, silly reason

MattP · Post Post #802 (isolation #83) » Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:23 am

In post 801, Nachomamma8 wrote:You joke about it but it's totally something that happens.

Yeah, I know, I did it. I've done it. But I never actually

read

them when my scumreads do them. Wisdom liked it because of the content. I liked it because it happened.

MattP · Post Post #803 (isolation #84) » Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:24 am

Also, you're just offering him an out right now

MattP · Post Post #809 (isolation #85) » Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:31 am

Yeah, I'm frankly shocked it's gone so long without a response. If I were Wisdom in this situation I would have IMMEDIATELY responded and done serious damage control

MattP · Post Post #815 (isolation #86) » Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:37 am

In post 813, Wisdom wrote:I don't know what you want a response to, Matt.

That's disappointing.

MattP · Post Post #826 (isolation #87) » Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:52 am

I choose Nacho as my new mason buddy!

pedit: Grimgroove

MattP · Post Post #830 (isolation #88) » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:55 am

VOTE: Wisdom

MattP · Post Post #832 (isolation #89) » Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:05 am

In post 831, Grimgroove wrote:I'm a bit high right now

too lol; didnt read

MattP · Post Post #858 (isolation #90) » Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:56 am

Wisdom, why are you trying to make Grim out to be scum?

This is a sincere question

Ooba, if it helps you understand my change in tone a little bit over the past 12, I haven't slept in about 36 hours

MattP · Post Post #860 (isolation #91) » Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:59 am

You realize that if Shos and Grim are town that there's a lot of stuff that needs to be sorted before we lynch Penguin

MattP · Post Post #863 (isolation #92) » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:01 am

In post 861, Wisdom wrote:
In post 858, MattP wrote:Wisdom, why are you trying to make Grim out to be scum?
I'm trying to read him.

Sucks to have only one scumread, doesn't it?

MattP · Post Post #869 (isolation #93) » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:05 am

If Mala is scum and did the "I'm going to replace if you tunnel me" thing to Wisdom at the beginning of the game I'm going to never join another game with her

Speaking of which, for now on whenever I'm in a game and someone does that regardless of alignment I'm never going to join another game with them. It's like essentially gamebreaking and noone really appreciates that

MattP · Post Post #873 (isolation #94) » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:09 am

This is a good game, btw. Scum are playing well, really every player sans Penguin is doing a damn good job of appearing town. Simultaneously, town are for the most part remaining calm and letting things take as much time as they need rather than falling apart. I like this. Nice first game back.

MattP · Post Post #881 (isolation #95) » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:15 am

In post 870, Grimgroove wrote:
In post 863, MattP wrote:
In post 861, Wisdom wrote:
In post 858, MattP wrote:Wisdom, why are you trying to make Grim out to be scum?
I'm trying to read him.
Sucks to have only one scumread, doesn't it?
Wisdom didn't make me out to be scum as far as I can recall. And I'd think I'd recall such a thing Where did he do that?

And what did you mean with your sad face in post 826?

I think your rethorical question is more of the likes of "trying to make someone out to be scum", in this case Wisdom.

First off, you're high:

In post 852, Wisdom wrote:Grim, you're really scum, aren't you? How the fuck would that make anyone conftown?

Second, the sad face was because as I was typing he was my new mason you said he was scum

Third, I deliberately made the question phrased antagonistically, because the only reason I could have seen for Wisdom stretching so far to call you scum was if he was dismayed by his lack of scumreads and was trying to reach for some new lead. I knew this inherently seems scummy, but I think given his situation it was inherently town-oriented. He responded by saying that he's trying to read you, which followed suit with the only town reasoning I could think of for why he would have called you scum, which was that he didn't actually think you were scum but was reaching for a new lead. Since he confirmed that unlikely possibility, I became more certain again of him being town and responded with exactly what my thought was by saying, "Sucks to have only one scumread, doesn't it?" to which he responded "Yeah, and I'm not even confident in that one." which further strengthened my guess at his intent.

MattP · Post Post #884 (isolation #96) » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:16 am

In post 878, Grimgroove wrote:
In post 873, MattP wrote:This is a good game, btw. Scum are playing well, really every player sans Penguin is doing a damn good job of appearing town. Simultaneously, town are for the most part remaining calm and letting things take as much time as they need rather than falling apart. I like this.
Nice first game back
.
THAT'S A LIE!!
You were in Normalville! The SunnyDays!

Why are you lying about this?

That was like in August...I had planned to never come back after that round of games ended, and I decided to give it another go.

MattP · Post Post #890 (isolation #97) » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:26 am

Nacho, out of the following, who are you MOST confident about being town and why:

shos
Malakittens
ArcAngel9
penguin_alien
Desperado
pirate mollie
Mirari

MattP · Post Post #907 (isolation #98) » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:35 am

@Grim: Face my demons? You missed a post that you based the majority of your case on not existing (that is, Wisdom having called you scum)

I pointed out the post, and I explained everything in your large posts directed at me. I also pointed out I wasn't lying about going on a break. So that leaves this post, as you say:

In post 876, Grimgroove wrote:
In post 869, MattP wrote:If Mala is scum and did the "I'm going to replace if you tunnel me" thing to Wisdom at the beginning of the game I'm going to never join another game with her
I don't buy this. Not from you Matt. Not from the Matt I've seen.

You're going to buy it, and you're going to wear it.

What am I supposed to say to this singular point I didn't respond to? And you can't respond to my other responses?

MattP · Post Post #915 (isolation #99) » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:41 am

In post 896, Nachomamma8 wrote:Town case on her still applies, and the push on penguin means that 1) they definitely aren't scum together and 2) she's more in the spotlight than she's comfortable being as scum. It has good conviction.

In post 911, Grimgroove wrote:
In post 907, MattP wrote:@Grim: Face my demons? You missed a post that you based the majority of your case on not existing (that is, Wisdom having called you scum)I pointed out the post, and I explained everything in your large posts directed at me. I also pointed out I wasn't lying about going on a break
Yes, that is all very good, but I was referring to room 876 and obviously was not talking about the stuff that has been rendered irrelevant thanks to your briljant replies.

But you're not talking yourself out of that slip with Mala. Because you didn't use logic in that one. You used a play on emotions and I caught it. You're good at using logic against people, but you're lacking in the emo-use department.

I KNOW you wouldn't make a threat like that and I KNOW MAlakittens would not ignore such a threat unless it came from a scumpartner.

Would you like me to actually waste my time and effort searching for and providing examples in prior games where I said something to that effect? In fact, I'm PRETTY sure, off the top of my head, I've NEVER made a threat like that as scum and I've done it at LEAST 3 times as town.

MattP · Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:43 am

Oh look, I quoted something of Nacho's that didn't give me a townread on Mala. What a shame.

Nacho, I'm asking you for your strongest read not to catch you in something. I have 6 strong townreads. I'd like 7. I think that's a good number. Please help me get there.

Pedit: I have morals.

MattP · Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:43 am

Now I'm "gamebreaking". Think whatever you want gangster.

MattP · Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:44 am

In post 919, Grimgroove wrote:
In post 49, MattP wrote:Pirate mollie, I was annoyed with the way you treated me in mykos game. However I'm going to be much more calm and rational this game than I've been before. I think taking a break from games was good.
See?
How useful is your pre-break meta under these circumstances?

Ok, sure, but take a step back from the computer, turn your head around, and turn it back towards this post you just made and ask yourself from 1-10 how ridiculously high you sound right now.

MattP · Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:45 am

In post 920, Grimgroove wrote:
In post 918, MattP wrote:Now I'm "gamebreaking". Think whatever you want gangster.
What do you mean, gamebreaking?

I just complained about people gamebreaking by threatening replacement. Now I'm trying to use me being angry at people threatening to replace as a towntell for myself. It's not much better.

MattP · Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:46 am

In post 923, Grimgroove wrote:You're not going to replace out, are you? I didn't mean to be mean

Lel. No. I'm probably going to take a nap though.

MattP · Post Post #933 (isolation #105) » Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:28 pm

VOTE: Penguin

MattP · Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:14 pm

Yea thanks Wisdom for reaffirming my mala townread [:

MattP · Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:48 am

There wasn't a single thing in your catchup that offered anything insightful or clever in thought. Everything was too straightforward, and that means to me that you're not really thinking too hard.

MattP · Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:42 am

Ive got finals so Im kinda V/LA for a lil until the 11th

MattP · Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:39 am

We really ought to lynch P_A over Shos today

MattP · Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:58 am

MattP · Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:52 am

Whiskers, why'd you stop being hostile?

MattP · Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:01 am

In post 1076, Whiskers wrote:
In post 1075, MattP wrote:Whiskers, why'd you stop being hostile?
Hmm?

You were being mean to people in the game

You left for like 24 hours

You've come back and are pleasant to deal with

Are you saying that this literally wasn't a conscious decision of yours or that you're completely unaware of it?

MattP · Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:07 am

In post 1078, Whiskers wrote:Post 1067.

I missed that, but I was having this thought last night. Your meanness has significantly decreased.

But I guess it was just a little subconscious phase. How disappointing. I thought it would have been a pretty towny thing to change after:

In post 767, MattP wrote:post

Without even bringing it up. Because following that post you immediately cut down the 'tude.

MattP · Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:15 am

I'm not particularly saying that having changed beforehand wouldn't have been towny, I'm more so fixating on that instance because I made post 767 with the intention of shaming you and PM into stopping your destructive behavior by calling you guys lost causes. I thought that you just internalizing that without making a huge scene and altering your behavior would have been a very towny thing to do. Changing your behavior beforehand would have been an entirely different situation, less towny in my opinion, but of courses towny or at least protown nonetheless.

MattP · Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:17 am

In post 772, MattP wrote:
In post 769, Wisdom wrote:I don't know, I think she might be town, especially if mollie isn't.

She said she will post today, let's see.
Penguin either:

a) Doesn't care at all about this game
b) Is scum

I don't like when people get away with "a" for a prolonged period of time. The great thing about it is that we can correct it and immediately get an answer on "b". You can't correct Mollie's attitude as is obvious by this point. You can't correct Whisker's insufferable ability to spoil the fun of a forum game for the majority of the player list and incite destructive discussion. You can't make Shos stop being frenetic. We
can
possibly, hopefully, get Penguin to get invested in the game.

I meant after this post for you, Whiskers. 767 was for PM.

MattP · Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:46 am

She said shit that I sympathized with based on my experiences being wrongly tunneled. It made me feel for her. On two separate occasions.

It's possible her angle this game is to play a sad little emotional thing (which has been my angle as scum before too) but idk. I wouldn't lynch her today. I wouldn't even get close to considering it assuming her play is consistently at the level it currently is.

MattP · Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:47 am

Also, it really pisses me off to consider that someone that's scum that another player is beginning to tunnel for it would threaten to replace. It's such disgusting form.

MattP · Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:56 am

Choose a single word that Malakittens has used this game that you think is scummy. Something that's unusual but not too unusual that you'd only ever see her say it once ever. Ideally even in this game up to this point you should have seen it 4 or 5 times for me to consider it.

I'm gonna try something fun

MattP · Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:07 am

Ok, I've been meaning to try out a new theory that corrects a serious statistical error a lot of people, myself included, make when using meta.

People use a "has or hasn't" meta tell. If someone has done something before as town and they do it again the person says that player is town. This doesn't make sense because the difference between "1 time as town, 0 times as scum" and "2 times as town, 0 times as scum" is not statistically a significant different, and if you consider it being a random sample, then there's a 25% chance of the player doing something twice as town and zero times as scum which isn't statistically significant at all.

This isn't even counting the fact that ACTIONS are usually to some level predetermined as both alignments which introduces bias into the sample.

HOWEVER, there's some stuff, mainly syntax and word use, that people don't really think about.

Consider using the word "scum". Any player can argue that it's very likely both town and scum will use the words plenty each game. HOWEVER, this logic is a statistically unsound point when you take quantity of the word use into play.

Suppose you take 100 games from a player where they were town, where the player started the game from pg 1 and you read up to about the thousandth post of each game and counted one player's uses of the word "scum". Suppose you get a mean of 80 with a standard deviation of 20. You can then find the 95% confidence interval and then check the game we're currently in and see if their number of uses falls in the bracket. It's possible that there is no difference, and that their alignment isn't linearly dependent on their use of the word "scum". It's also possible that their scum and town games DO have a difference, and that they fall into the "town" bracket. You can figure out dependence by also testing a bunch of scum games they were in and seeing if their is a statistical difference between quantity of the word used between the two alignments.

I'd like to try this out.

MattP · Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:34 am

The issue with my meta trick on Mala is:

a) She ALWAYS FUCKING HYDRAS
b) There are definitely conclusive results from the last 3 months with difference in use of the term "scum". However, not when you account shit back from March and after. Therefore, I would just disregard it. But something fun. This is Mala's use of the term "scum" in her last two completed games, along with this game, by iso post 63:

39 scum by iso 63 olympian
5 scum by iso 63 macbeth, TOWN
46 scum Xenogears, MAFIA

However, anything before this becomes flimsy again and makes the results bad. I'm not going to discount data just because this data looks pretty, but I just wanna point out my heart almost came out of my chest when I finished checking Xenogears.

MattP · Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:35 am

I'm gonna try Penguin_Alien!

MattP · Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:06 pm

Fuck this, I'm tired

MattP · Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:50 pm

Yeah, it's really just irritating and hurtful. I don't understand that sort of behavior in games..

MattP · Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:43 pm

Going to sleep, but ooba, I was purposefully using the ISO of MALA specifically, so since at the time I did the analysis she had posted 63 times in this game I checked the first 63 posts of each of her other games.

MattP · Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:26 am

You think I tried to get a townread on my scumbuddy with her threat to replace out?

MattP · Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:45 am

In post 1139, Wisdom wrote:Why not?

You don't seem to have any idea of my playstyle or human essence in general

MattP · Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:46 am

What a shame

MattP · Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:51 am

Le sigh

MattP · Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:56 am

Well I'm glad this happened actually, now Wisdom is human just like the rest of us

MattP · Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:53 am

There was literally no response to give to your matter of fact useless point

MattP · Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:56 am

In post 1151, shos wrote:consistency=\=dependent on situation. ==> someone is faking.

Sweet opportunity, Batman!

MattP · Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:59 am

The

only

reason this current line of thought bothers me at all is because you guys are essentially saying I'm immoral, which kinda fucks with a young mans heart

MattP · Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:05 am

In post 1165, Wisdom wrote: @Matt
The more you say things like that, the more I believe you're actually scum

That's stupid, pretty objectively so, but that's your prerogative.

MattP · Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:08 am

In post 1174, Wisdom wrote:Matt, you sound pretty frustrated - were me and Grim dead on with our theory?

You seem to be begging the question of why I would be irritated by you calling me immoral while simultaneously threatening me for begging the question.

MattP · Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:03 pm

In post 1335, Wisdom wrote:
In post 1329, pirate mollie wrote:
In post 1326, Wisdom wrote:It doesn't look genuine at all to me.
what was disingenuous about it?
The fact it doesn't make sense. Townreading a scumbuddy for doing something that could be considered immoral is not immoral itself.

There's like two levels of intelligence needed to arrive at why it would be considered immmoral

I'm very sick right now and have a lot of finals stuff to deal with, but if you would actually like me to logically explain the immorality associated with it then I can muster my way through it.

MattP · Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:09 pm

What, you don't

actually

care about my logic, Wisdom?

MattP · Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:12 pm

In post 1347, Wisdom wrote:No, I don't care about your faked moral things.

Even if I can logically prove to you that it makes perfect sense to feel the way I felt? When you're saying that my posts didn't make sense I'm saying I can make sense of them for you. If you don't actually care about have a dialogue then you're tunneling.

MattP · Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:12 pm

having*

MattP · Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:13 pm

VOTE: Shos

MattP · Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:49 am

I have finals, I don't have time to parse through shit right now.

I'm a neighborizer. I don't want Mala dead, I want Shos dead.

MattP · Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:51 am

I'm also very very sick right now

MattP · Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:56 am

Also, Shos didn't improve any over the past 10 pages, you just tunneled the shit out of town and the quality of your play deteriorated and scum piggybacked you, Wisdom.

Remember when Shos had you as a scumread, and now SUDDENLY when you're pushing town players for lynch Shos is riding your coattails.

Pedit: You're just ridiculous, Grim. Shos is scum. Wisdom is so far gone that he needs a major look at himself to reevaluate his play over the last 15 pages. Then everything in the world will be back to its dandy self.

And FYI, i was REALLY straining not to self-analyze, but none of the things you scumread me for were logical and the fact you discounted a LOT of completely protown shit I was doing earlier just because of some high hallucinations you had is YOUR fault.

MattP · Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:02 am

It doesn't matter that neighborizers can be of either alignment, I just tied myself to a neighbor claim making me not available for any other night role.

Town can have negative utility roles

AND if I was a neighborizer and scum there's no rational reason I would have just claimed UNLESS mala and I are scum and this was a gambit.

Pedit: Because Shos is scum, Wisdom is town, Mala is town, and a neighborizer won't be roleblocked or nightkilled but lends credence to my beliefs?

MattP · Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:38 am

In post 1419, Wisdom wrote:
In post 1415, MattP wrote:and the fact you discounted a LOT of completely protown shit I was doing earlier
Scum can do protown shit too, I don't see your point. But your whining because I don't consider the protown points means you care about your appearence, so more pro-scum points for you.

My issue with you is that you're town and currently scum are piggybacking you because you're vocal. The sooner you realize that and try to give the thread another rational read instead of tunneling, which you objectively cartoonishly are doing as of this point, the better.

MattP · Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:39 am

In post 1420, Wisdom wrote:I've played with a scum neighborizer before, who actually neighborized me on N1. Can easily be scum.

Scum certainly CAN be neighborizers. Scum have no reason to claim neighborizer day one and pigeonhole themselves to HAVE to then neighborize.

MattP · Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:40 am

In post 1422, Wisdom wrote:
In post 1418, MattP wrote:Pedit: Because Shos is scum, Wisdom is town, Mala is town, and a neighborizer won't be roleblocked or nightkilled but lends credence to my beliefs?
wtf is this bullshit?

There was no reason for you to claim unless you are scum and you want to confuse us. That's all there is to it.

You're actively being ignorant of theory of mind right now.

MattP · Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:43 am

In post 1425, Wisdom wrote:Yeah, yeah, when Wisdom catches scum, let's remind everyone how he's always tunneling to discredit his reads. Good luck with that.

Well, let's see:

1) You called me scum because it was illogical for me to feel a certain way. I said I would explain why I logically felt that way and you told me not to explain because I'm scum

2) You just told me that the ONLY reason I could have claimed was to confuse the town

So basically, you're tunelling and incapable currently of using theory of mind.

MattP · Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:44 am

In post 1426, Wisdom wrote:
In post 1423, MattP wrote:
In post 1420, Wisdom wrote:I've played with a scum neighborizer before, who actually neighborized me on N1. Can easily be scum.
Scum certainly CAN be neighborizers. Scum have no reason to claim neighborizer day one and pigeonhole themselves to HAVE to then neighborize.
"have to"?
As if neighborizing is something bad. Scum can manipulate someone much more easily in a neighborhood.
Solely the reason you claim out of nowhere and then try to justify how scum wouldn't claim screams caught scum.

I was told that scum would do something and I said, "no they wouldn't"

I didn't say "I'm neighborizer AND I'll simultaneously say why scum wouldn't do this!"

Tunneling.

MattP · Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:45 am

And Grim said, ***

MattP · Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:45 am

No, I was right the first time, "and I said"**

MattP · Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:47 am

There's one thing I'm proud of, and it's that any scumreads I've had this game (except Shos to a degree) I've been fair too and tried to be rational and talk things through with them rather than be a vitriolic, counterproductive individual. It's a shame to see that you're completely incapable of this at the moment.

MattP · Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:48 am

In post 1431, Wisdom wrote:blah blah tunneling blah blah

caught scum is caught

Now let's fucking lynch Mala and Matt back to back

This is such a sad, sad post.

MattP · Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:57 pm

Hephaestus, 2-shot neighborizer

MattP · Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:59 pm

Oh, and if I neighborize someone N1 we can't talk until N2

MattP · Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:01 pm

And no daytalk, only nighttalk.

MattP · Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:09 pm

Why do I need to have neighborized Mala to be convinced that her replace threat means she is town and I don't want to waste the mislynch? It's inconceivable to me that you can't even manage to understand why I may feel this way.

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:06 pm

Intent to hammer...

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:07 pm

The delayed portion makes perfect sense considering that my role doesn't start working until N2, which would obscure the cop-like usefulness of her role.

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:49 pm

More so the reason that you would be delayed would be to confound your results so that you don't know if it's a mafia QT or a town QT anymore, or if a mafia is now in a town and scum QT they're "immune" to investigations.

You're essentially a weak cop role.

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:05 pm

I'll probably vote within the next hour.

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:22 pm

Anything else?

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:39 pm

I'm just asking if you have anything else to say that you think is useful before I hammer you.

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:46 pm

Ok

VOTE: Malakittens

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:49 pm

Nothing else to say before thread is locked?

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:52 pm

Ftr it's obvious that you know this wasn't a hammer and are trying to fake a "townslip" considering the fitz unvote was a page ago

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:33 pm

Wisdom, does your cold feet on Mala mean cold feet on me too?

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:37 pm

Just pointing out, I said I was going to hammer and that mala should post anything else she needed to before I did, she said she had nothing left to say, I fake-hammered, and she wished town good luck.

That looks like faking a lynch, not like hopelessness.

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:37 pm

In post 1674, Wisdom wrote:
In post 1672, MattP wrote:Wisdom, does your cold feet on Mala mean cold feet on me too?
No

Then why the Mirari vote?

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:42 pm

In post 1678, Wisdom wrote:Because she's scum?

Why the preference over myself?

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:56 pm

Why are you playing so poorly this game? Serious question.

Pedit: Because I was wrong about the replacing out threat. I felt shitty about it, I took my finals, I lost some sleep and remembered exactly why I left mafia in the first place, I came back and sucked it up and voted. Pretty wonderful thought process.

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:01 pm

In post 1683, Wisdom wrote:So it was only the replacing out threat that kept you from scumreading her before?

It was empathizing with her as a human being. On several counts. Would you like me to quote things? Her threatening to replace-out as scum is something that really pisses me off. We can discuss it endgame.

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:06 pm

Uh, yeah it was. I thought her play was suboptimal, I asked Nacho why he townread her, he said why, I didn't value his explanation, you then pushed her and she made one emotional post that I thought was pretty towny. Then I reevaluated her early-game replace threat and that sealed the deal. I've been affected in this EXACT way as town in other games. In War is Hell, Albert B Rampage made one minor comment to another player in the game that I thought sounded genuine and I switched 180 from a scumread to a townread. He ended up being scum.

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:42 pm

I claimed when I did because I was convinced that Mala was town, and I thought it would make people shut up. It was irrational. I get that. I've done it before as town and it's fucked me over, where I'll claim specifically because I want people to get off my back. In this case it was a combo of me being annoyed that Wisdom was scumreading me, people riding up a player I was CONVINCED was town, and me being irritated that Wisdom was allowing Shos to skate away while furthering a mislynch.

My flavor is incredibly minimal and therefore it's difficult to state in a way that's not breaking the rules. It's along the lines of "As someone who is a source of pragmatism (this is seriously a bad way of saying it, but the word used there is literally NO way to say without just saying the word, which would be rule breaking), you can create networks with which to discuss covertly with them"

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:46 pm

I'm very very bad at not claiming, ever, in any game I've ever been in. I suck for it.

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:53 pm

In post 1699, shos wrote:
Its basically equal to, help me, or ill help myself. This is crumbing nothing at all.
The fact you called this a crumb makes me think you weaved through your own iso in search for any help for your crumb. That is definitely not a planned crumb. See PAs flavor crumb for a real one.

What made you suddenly want to crumb in that post? As town i usually crumb using capitals or something, spelling the role completelybin my first post or something like that. Not in midgame with no reason and hinting that i can get help from not-the-one-ispeak-with source.

This is so ridiculously stupid and propaganda based.

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:55 pm

This is exactly why I was pissed off enough to claim. Because the fact that shos is getting away with ridiculous and over-the-top comments, that you, Wisdom, were off the right path at the time, and that you were so convinced of me being scum when I earlier had been working productively with you was very merit-worthy of the claim at that time.

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:00 pm

C'est la vie

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:02 pm

In post 1715, shos wrote: Matt: seriously? Are you saying that you think its a good crumb? Why is it different from a cop crumb? Or tracker? Or watcher? Or ANYTHING? it says nothing about qts, its basically "im a pr guyz".

It has nothing to do with whether it was a good crumb, it has to do with what your retort was, which was irrational and bizarre.

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:10 pm

In post 1718, shos wrote:I dunno what retort is.
And the point is explaining why i think the claim is fake. Do you think i am wrong in tjought/reason for it? I dont understand you

So you can look up the definition.

Your reasoning for thinking the claim is fake is because she said she will have to "help herself by looking somewhere else," to which you responded that that means that she is just going to "help herself" which in no way acknowledges her use of the term "somewhere else" and oversimplifies it to make her post look remarkably worse than it really is.

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:11 pm

I think her claim is bullshit, regardless of whether or not she crumbed. You are justifying it being bullshit by trying to prove her crumb is a lie even though it syntactically makes fine sense. You're just choosing reasons to discredit her that are bizarre and irrational.

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:13 pm

She could easily have a fakeclaim provided to her regarding a neighborhood QT cop. She could have crumbed it because it's a specific and convincing role. You're REALLY stretching to prove that her crumb is fake

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:16 pm

In post 1722, Wisdom wrote:Yeah so it's still mala/matt and Matt is trying desperately to tie shos to mala

It's really great to keep this happy smile on my face

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:20 pm

Yes, my secret evil plans have been to call shos out on his shitty posts so that you mislynch mala! FOILED

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:21 pm

Go ahead, reference it now, no holding back

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:35 pm

I make perfect sense actually. Keep studying for your PSAT.

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:46 pm

Mala will flip scum, so.

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:56 pm

No, it's not extremely good, it's actually incorrect, but I would love for you to expand on it so much that I can't help but agree with it Grimgroove. Go ahead.

Pedit: Ooooh, you see I disagree at the part where when Mala claims this role the scum would obviously neighborize to make her role harder, because scum would definitely do that.

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:57 pm

And for the record, Mala is lying about her role. But regardless of that your logic is still incredibly short-minded

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:59 pm

"Damn, Mala just claimed a QT cop and I'm a scum neighborizer! Oh, I know, I'm going to neighborize players so that I obscure her results!"

Your logic doesn't make any sense because town or scum that don't know Mala exists as a QT cop are NEGATIVE UTILITY ROLES FOR TOWN, REGARDLESS OF THE NEIGHBORIZER'S ALIGNMENT. And as soon as Mala claims, neither the town or scum neighborizer would neighborize because it would practically be a scumclaim or retardedly antitown. So acting like this ENSURES there must be a scum neighborizer so that they can obscure results in any even slightly different way than town makes no sense

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:00 pm

I go to Johns Hopkins, I'm argumentatively right because I have a college education at a respected university! You lose by default and I don't have to hit my head on things!

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:01 pm

Nacho is smart too, he'll come in here and agree at some point in the next 10 weeks!

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:05 pm

Scum don't cloud ANYTHING by being a neighborizer. My logic is correct, you're decisively wrong. Have a great day in WrongLand, Queen of Wrong.

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:06 pm

If Mala hasn't claimed then a scum or town neighborizor are EQUALLY negative utility to Mala because both will use their roles willy nilly, in fact scum of the two would be the only ones NOT to use it potentially.
If Mala has claimed then neither the town or scum would use their role because town are protown and scum aren't going to neighborize a townie because the townie will know it was antitown to neighborize them with you in the game, so the scum would be outed

Therefore the two are equal in ALL situations possible. Thanks!

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:07 pm

In post 1749, Wisdom wrote:Of course it would be a scum claim if they neighborized now that we learned about Mala's claim - but what I am discussing here is the setup in general. It makes sense to have a scum neighborizer who will neighborize someone not because he knows about Mala's role and wants to obscure her results, but for his own gains (i.e. manipulation). That in turn will obscure Mala's results.

So if Mala's role exists, one of the neighborizers is scum for this reason.

So why in the world would there even be a TOWN NEIGHBORIZER? Isn't that a negative utility role? Isn't that just INSANE to even fathom in the setup?

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:09 pm

One negative utility neighborizer is one thing. But TWO? That's really just pushing the limit

And then we throw in a virgin, which is negative utility to the negative utility neighborizers but positive utility to the QT cop. And God forbid there's a Traitor, aka immune to investigations in the game. This whole setup can really just fuck with us I'm sure!

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:11 pm

In post 1750, shos wrote:No matt
Wisdom is right
If town decides to not action and you neighbourize town then the neighbour knows you are scum.

I literally cannot argue on your level anymore this game, I'm going to die.

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:12 pm

I love Israel, I now hate you significantly less brother.

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:15 pm

But I'm still scum amirite Wisdom?

MattP · Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:17 pm

You know I've been trying DAMN REAL HARD this game NOT to do what I just did. And since maybe for one single moment you have an ounce of clarity, I want you to know that I HATE how you are playing this game and you are making this very damn difficult for me to try to be a calmer and more rational player