Animal Crossing Mafia: Game over

[Yamahako]

I

Vote Yamahako

to be the recipient of these bells

[Yamahako]

Aren't I a good choice? A vote for me to get bells is a good vote for to help out the town!

FOS: Everyone not voting for me

I'm the only person confirmed to me so far in this game...

[Yamahako]

i still think we should hurry up and give the bells to someone... so we can actually staart discussion... as a side note, i bought an orange box, and id suggest that no one buy it.

Haha. Really?

yes, really.

Aieee... I want one so badly now

[Yamahako]

I think Yamahako would make a good recipient

If you say so I will grudgingly accept...

Confirm Vote Yamahako

note: ChannelDelibird never said the above

[Yamahako]

I say we distribute the bells to someone, because we'd have a higher chance to give bells to a townie then a mafiate.

Good posting! And I happen to be some

one

!

[Yamahako]

Vote Overtheunder

[Yamahako]

Give 1 Bell to Lowell

Unvote, Vote AC1983fan

A confirmed innocent will get killed tonight if that person is named - which means it can't be used later to help us narrow down scum. The gap in logic that would cause you to think that decision would benefit town shows so many errors of judgement that there is no way you could be town.

[Yamahako]

And

FOS: IH

Your idea is dumb, and you're defending your scum mate then?

[Yamahako]

Also, I'd still kindly request someone who believes me to give me one more bell. Should our doc turn out to fall for the ac/IH plan of "I don't trust the claim!" I could be dead tomorrow and you'll all be sorry. I'd like to find out if the net can offer any protection.

I highly doubt a net is going to provide any protection. I don't see it being used much in self-defense these days.

--

Lowell not giving us his innocent now isn't going to do any harm. If he were to give out his innocent, the mafia would have someone to target. When it comes down to outing mafia, a list of living innocents is going to be more useful then a bunch of dead innocents.

All the more reason if Lowell is lying, as we won't be fooled by his false innocent. Unless, of course, we decide to lynch Lowell's innocent in order to prove the validity of Lowell's claim. However, we should be more concerned with lynching mafia then deliberating the authenticity of Lowell's cop claim.

While Lowell was dumb for coming out so early, without a counter-claim, you pretty much have to assume he's town. Simply because any real cop could counter-claim and then get protection every night - seeing no claims yet - I'm about 85% sure he's legit.

[Yamahako]

sigh,

Unvote, Vote IH

[Yamahako]

IH it's rather simple, your scenario doesn't make sense. It would be tragic for the cop to not come forward at this point if Lowell was fake claiming. Since no one has counter-claimed, its rather safe to assume Lowell is the cop (albiet not necessarily an intellegent one). At this point, assuming no counter claim, all the discussion of discrediting Lowell right now is just distraction and not beneficial for town.

Questioning his claim at first, good town skepticism. At this point? Scummy behavior trying to lynch an unclaimed power role.

Believing in Lowell, if he's fake claimed, is really bad - and any intellegent townie cop would have counterclaimed already in order to stop Lowell from getting bells. At this point its pretty obvious scum weren't ballsy enough to risk one of their guys to have a chance at getting the Cop lynched, and Lowell is pretty confirmed.

You're pretty confirmed too, since you're trying to use craplogic to pit the town against the cop.

[Yamahako]

why would he get nightkilled? the innocent doesn't have to claim, so the mafia wouldn't know if he were a powerrole or not! what is the motivation behind killing them? ughh...

You're kind of frustrating But in order to understand this:

Confirmed innocents are very important to town, when properly revealed near the end of the game they can be used to drastically narrow down who

can't

be mafia.

A cop can be used to both find mafia and confirm innocents. When the cop claims this early however, the doctor can't save any of the confirmed innocents. This means that if the mafia kill off every confirmed innocent every night then we are greatly reducing our numerical, informational, advantage.

Lets look at the different scenarios:

12 person game - cop claims day 1, there is a doc, 3 mafia who are good at avoiding lynches -cop names all of his townies he finds each day - townies are A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H,and I, mafia are J,K, and L

Day 1 - cop verifies 'A', to be town. Town lynches 'B'
Night 1 - mafia lynches A
Day 2 - cop verifies 'C' to be town. Town lynches 'D'
Night 2 mafia lynches 'C'
Day 3 - Lynch or lose - and no one is close to knowing who the mafia are only 50/50 chance at hitting a mafia member through a lynch.

12 person game - cop claims day 1, there is a doc, 3 mafia who are good at avoiding lynches -cop doesn't name confirmed townies- townies are A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H,and I, mafia are J,K, and L

Day 1 - cop knows I is town, Town lynches A
Night 1 - Mafia lynches B
Day 2 - cop knows H is town, Town lynches C
Night 2 - Mafia lynches D
Day 3 - Lynch or lose

but

, today Cop says "I and H are clear, I'm G" leaving only 4 people "unconfirmed" 3 of which are mafia. This means a 75% chance at hitting a mafia member through a lynch.

Additionally, confirmed townies are a larger liability to mafia (even if they are vanilla) because they tell the truth, and town can trust them. Even if they didn't claim, if one of them HAS an ability and they reveal information it will be 100% trusted giving the town an edge, why would mafia allow such a useful and powerful person to stay alive?

[Yamahako]

No, it either confirms Lowells sanity, or else if the person is something neutral, we know Lowell is lying.

You're advocating the lynching of a townie, to prove the pretty proved cop? I can sort of see a point regarding the sanity- but that will likely work itself out when someone is killed that Lowel has investigated.

[Yamahako]

Unvote, Vote IH

[Yamahako]

Can we just agree that

I'm by no means "confirmed" but the doc should protect me tonight

? How's that?

Lowell, I'm pretty sure you're the cop. I think you had a really dumb idea, which no one liked, and felt you needed to defend yourself. Day one it doesn't take much to incite a lynch.

The truth is, a real cop should have counterclaimed. Although we'd be in the same situation as your dumb premature claim, we'd be down one mafia. Since no one has come forward, I think you're pretty confirmed as town.

I think the doc should protect you (or not WIFOM is good in this case), but I think you've still put the doc in an awkward situation. And we better hope to hell that mafia doesn't have a tracker

[Yamahako]

Can we just agree that

I'm by no means "confirmed" but the doc should protect me tonight

? How's that?

Lowell, I'm pretty sure you're the cop. I think you had a really dumb idea, which no one liked, and felt you needed to defend yourself. Day one it doesn't take much to incite a lynch.

The truth is, a real cop should have counterclaimed. Although we'd be in the same situation as your dumb premature claim, we'd be down one mafia. Since no one has come forward, I think you're pretty confirmed as town.

I think the doc should protect you (or not WIFOM is good in this case), but I think you've still put the doc in an awkward situation. And we better hope to hell that mafia doesn't have a tracker

Again, stop being dumb. I think a cop countering now would have been not too bright. Either we lose a cop to get a mafia, or 2 cops are outed Day 1...Since people still are not getting it, I'll make it clear:

LOWELL IS NOT CLEARED AT ALL. TREAT HIM LIKE ANYONE ELSE.

For all your completely unnecessary noise, I DID NOT say he was cleared - all I said was that I was pretty sure he was the cop. And why are you trying to keep perpetuating this rediculous idea that there are two cops?

IGMEOY

. And if you're trying to say something sneaky and feel like its really important, I would recommend not being so stupidly obvious about it.

[Yamahako]

Seriously, he has repeatedly said "We should just leave Lowell alone, he's almost assuredly the cop, cause there is no counterclaim!" That's pretty much treating someone as cleared.

I see it more as an attempt to move on for now. The past few pages have been repeated arguments.

Yeah, unless there's serious interest in lynching lowell, or if more scum want to come on board with the "let's hear the list of innocents you've gotten" I think we can pretty much drop the subject. It's been very helpful to see where people lie on certain matters, but its not really helpful right now.

But IH, your OMGUS vote is noted.

[Yamahako]

But IH, your OMGUS vote is noted.

Do you ever read the entirety of what I write? I have stated why I have voted you, and it was most definitely

not

an omgus. You're attempt to unsubstantiate it with bad reasoning has been noted.

All you stated was that you think that I consider Lowell cleared, when I've stated all I am is pretty sure he's the cop. That's your *reason* for voting me? Even if I did think lowell was 100% cleared, you feel that would be basis for a vote? Just trying to clarify...

[Yamahako]

Actually, if you don't think Lowell is the cop, then VOTE him. Because he's either the cop or scum - quit pussy-footing around it and put your vote where your opinions are.

[Yamahako]

WROWNG WROWNG WROWNG!

No the whole point was to validate it down the road. If he actually IS the cop, then it's an added bonus that we know his sanity.

The cop can reveal innocent or scum
the scum

cannot in certainty do this

. All of the possiblities I'm about to list are possible.

1.A cult-A cult is where someone calls a cult leader brings in a town into his scum group everynight. They cannot kill.
2.A second scum group-Sometimes there are more than one group of mafia. If there is a second group of mafia, they will not work with his mafia, so he now has a problem revealing his investigation results until they have become confirmed.
3.An Sk (or two)-An Sk, or serial killer, is a killer who works alone, thats not in the group. He wins when EVERYONE but him is dead.
4.

a miller

-If he reveals someone as innocent, and that person comes up as a miller, then that cop is lying, as a town miller shows up guilty on investigations.

Any one of these could be avoided if he waits to claim results, in which people will become more and more confirmed. The only people that he can out safely and without a problem as a cop is his own team, and I doubt he wants to do that to much, because he will eventually be counterclaimed, and he will cripple his own team.

I agree with everything you're saying. These are all excellent reasons why a mafia member would be remiss to claim cop. Which is why I find it less likely that lowell isn't the cop.

I still don't see a reason to give the MAFIA free innocents to kill that have nearly zero repercussions with regards to what they've said in the game. If someone dies, you can read through the game pretending you're mafia and try to see who would have wanted that person to die - maybe someone tried a mini-wagon on that person, maybe there was some subtle tension, whatever it was that made the mafia want to choose that kill. If Lowell announces his innocent that person will die. And there will be NOTHING we can glean from that night kill. You're basically cutting the amount of SOLID information we can use to nail scum in HALF.

IF you give a crap about my opinion - we need to hear a guilty from Lowell to test him. THEN we can work with his list. Until then we are endangering townies. Also, until he gets a guilty, we don't have to hear from his list and can just treat him like a townie since innocents will only be helpful if we are trying to lynch one.

[Yamahako]

From Day 1
"IH is scum! - The PO"

I saw this while checking on something heh

[Yamahako]

IF you give a crap about my opinion - we need to hear a guilty from Lowell to test him. THEN we can work with his list. Until then we are endangering townies. Also, until he gets a guilty, we don't have to hear from his list and can just treat him like a townie since innocents will only be helpful if we are trying to lynch one.

So what I propose with Lowell - Ignore him until he gets a guilty.

Looks like we are on the same page... wait a minute...

Moving on,

Vote: Yamahako

Opinions are just that, opinions. They aren't anything substantial, and there's no way someone should vote based on early opinions. Suggesting we should vote off our supposed cop is no way to go about making a successful lynch.

Buh what?!

[Yamahako]

We might agree, but that doesn't change the fact that you thought it was alright to vote off our claimed cop. Not to mention you voted IH for the sake of following the bandwagon and without providing any reason.

What?! I think you need to re-read I've NEVER said I was in favor of lynching the cop. I said that if you thought Lowell was lying then you should vote him - because he's either scum or the cop.

I made it pretty clear that I was voting IH because he was trying to out an innocent. But I guess you would have missed that... seeing as how you're not bothering to read very well.

[Yamahako]

I first started throwing suspicion toward IH in post 168, but I was voting AC1983fan because he was supporting IH's idea.

I switched my vote from AC1983fan to IH in post 191 because AC1983fan insinutaed that he had an ability - I even said "sigh" because I hate it when town gives so many good people for scum to choose from. And as I had mentioned earlier in the thread, I was suspicious of IH.

Looks like there's 5 votes on me, and 10 or 11 to lynch? I still don't understand my wagon at all, but I think there's lots of people who aren't posting :-/

[Yamahako]

I was suspcious of you IH, and I think I could get behind something being revealed tomorrow by Lowell, as then Mafia would always be working a day behind - and there would be a lot more info we could get from the killings.

[Yamahako]

Vote:Yamahako

I don't like you trying to lynch the cop and your defence is weak.

I've NEVER wanted to lynch the cop, OMG does nobody have basic reading skills?!

[Yamahako]

mole, Cheesefan, Jules, Wizardcat, Fircoal

Where do you guys stand?

I'm gonna

Unvote

too, I don't think IH is scum really, and I like his new plan (waiting till tomorrow to hear the innocent(s)) better.

[Yamahako]

Why are you singling out only some of the non-voters?

Singling out people I have no notes on at all...

[Yamahako]

I think that.... I will get down to a Yamahako response tomorrow night, as I'm tired and my brain exploded from the awesomeness of 300.

It was quite good

[Yamahako]

While Lowell was dumb for coming out so early, without a counter-claim, you pretty much have to assume he's town. Simply because any real cop could counter-claim and then get protection every night - seeing no claims yet - I'm about 85% sure he's legit.

First attempt to try and convince everyone that Lowell is confirmed from a lack of counterclaim.

If Lowell is not the cop, then why

wouldn't

the best case scenario be for the real cop to counter claim? We'd bag us a scum right off the bat and confirm the cop all in one swoop. Additionally, what good would it do for scum to try and claim cop preemptively at this point in the game? No one yet has given me a reason why it would make sense for Lowell to

not

be the cop under these circumstances

other

than it was an absolutely horrific time to claim.

IH it's rather simple, your scenario doesn't make sense. It would be tragic for the cop to not come forward at this point if Lowell was fake claiming. Since no one has counter-claimed, its rather safe to assume Lowell is the cop (albeit not necessarily an intelligent one). At this point, assuming no counter claim, all the discussion of discrediting Lowell right now is just distraction and not beneficial for town.

Questioning his claim at first, good town skepticism. At this point? Scummy behavior trying to lynch an unclaimed power role.

Believing in Lowell, if he's fake claimed, is really bad - and any intelligent townie cop would have counterclaimed already in order to stop Lowell from getting bells. At this point its pretty obvious scum weren't ballsy enough to risk one of their guys to have a chance at getting the Cop lynched, and Lowell is pretty confirmed.

You're pretty confirmed too, since you're trying to use craplogic to pit the town against the cop.

Second attempt by discrediting the person with the same exact argument used in the previous post. A lack of counterclaim on day 1 does not confirm someone.

From my perspective, logically, it does. I'd like to think I'm pretty good at sorting out the causes for people's actions. So while I wouldn't personally have chosen to act the way Lowell did, I can't come up with a scenario that would lead Lowell as a scum to claim cop in the way that he did.

~Snip Snip~

Lets look at the different scenarios:

12 person game - cop claims day 1, there is a doc, 3 mafia who are good at avoiding lynches -cop names all of his townies he finds each day - townies are A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H,and I, mafia are J,K, and L

Day 1 - cop verifies 'A', to be town. Town lynches 'B'
Night 1 - mafia lynches A
Day 2 - cop verifies 'C' to be town. Town lynches 'D'
Night 2 mafia lynches 'C'
Day 3 - Lynch or lose - and no one is close to knowing who the mafia are only 50/50 chance at hitting a mafia member through a lynch.

12 person game - cop claims day 1, there is a doc, 3 mafia who are good at avoiding lynches -cop doesn't name confirmed townies- townies are A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H,and I, mafia are J,K, and L

Day 1 - cop knows I is town, Town lynches A
Night 1 - Mafia lynches B
Day 2 - cop knows H is town, Town lynches C
Night 2 - Mafia lynches D
Day 3 - Lynch or lose but, today Cop says "I and H are clear, I'm G" leaving only 4 people "unconfirmed" 3 of which are mafia. This means a 75% chance at hitting a mafia member through a lynch.

Additionally, confirmed townies are a larger liability to mafia (even if they are vanilla) because they tell the truth, and town can trust them. Even if they didn't claim, if one of them HAS an ability and they reveal information it will be 100% trusted giving the town an edge, why would mafia allow such a useful and powerful person to stay alive?

Your scenario's are if the cop only hit's innocents. You don't go to lylo after three mislynches, you're not counting in any possible roles such as roleblockers, this is not a twelve person game. This is a

20

person game. Not only that, but you can't trust the cop at that point! You haven't tested him! You have no idea if he is actually scum just trying to get the town to mislynch!

I gave the 2 worst case scenarios, obviously there could be a large number of variations to either of these plans. I have no idea how I got the number of people wrong, thanks for pointing it out. I think I saw "21" (it being a 21 person game, not 20) and did a bit of dyslexia there. Regardless, I still think I pretty clearly illustrated the benefit of keeping confirmed townies out of the view of the mafia. No one has show me yet why that is wrong. But here's the thing, in scenario one the cop is tested, but you still can't trust the cop - he could be mafia "finding" innocents. In scenario 2, at least, its far more likely to be a townie then a crazy mafia trying to with with a strange scenario. The only way to "test" a cop decisively is for the cop to get a guilty verdict.

You're advocating the lynching of a townie, to prove the pretty proved cop? I can sort of see a point regarding the sanity- but that will likely work itself out when someone is killed that Lowel has investigated.

Never did that.

Lynching was probably the wrong word to use, I apologize for the misrepresentation. I view the exposed townie as being someone to die.

her

*his

next post is unvoting, and then voting me.
His vote was already on me.
This is a scumtell of her

*him

trying to show that IH is really suspicious, so I'm voting him at this time, even if my vote is already on him.

I did simply forget my vote was on you already.

Lowell, I'm pretty sure you're the cop. I think you had a really dumb idea, which no one liked, and felt you needed to defend yourself. Day one it doesn't take much to incite a lynch.

The truth is, a real cop should have counterclaimed. Although we'd be in the same situation as your dumb premature claim, we'd be down one mafia. Since no one has come forward, I think you're pretty confirmed as town.

I think the doc should protect you (or not WIFOM is good in this case), but I think you've still put the doc in an awkward situation. And we better hope to hell that mafia doesn't have a tracker

After all of this, he seems to have revised after all a little bit of arguing that Lowell MUST be the cop, but that he's pretty sure. Even after all of the counterclaim issues, it's still brought up.

That's because I feel its dangerous to out townies from a cop I trust.

For all your completely unnecessary noise, I DID NOT say he was cleared - all I said was that I was pretty sure he was the cop. And why are you trying to keep perpetuating this rediculous idea that there are two cops? IGMEOY. And if you're trying to say something sneaky and feel like its really important, I would recommend not being so stupidly obvious about it.

If you say you're pretty sure he must be the cop, then you're pretty sure he's either cleared or a lying townie.

Actually, if you don't think Lowell is the cop, then VOTE him. Because he's either the cop or scum - quit pussy-footing around it and put your vote where your opinions are.

False dilemma. I have to be sure that he is the cop or that he is not at this very moment. My vote needs to follow as such.

Perhaps a false dilemma, but its not a false point to bring up. He's either the cop or

scum

(not a lying townie). I think its fairly obvious if he isn't the cop he should be lynched under lynch all liars. If you don't trust him, yes, there are alternatives to test him - but only a guilty verdict can do an adequate job of testing him. And in general a cop is trusted unless there's a counter claim. But I still can't see a scum scenario where they would premptively claim cop on day one. I also don't think anyone is trying to lynch lowell today so its a non-issue.

What you haven't explained is how if Lowell is the cop, him naming a townie does us any good vs. if he's scum. Giving the scum a baggage-less kill doesn't help us at all. Day 2, with 2 innocents (or luckily a guilty verdict) puts us in a better situation.

Vote:Yamahako

I believe.... he knows to much. Allow me to explain. The only people who would want to be this sure of Lowell being a cop are people who would know his aligment. If he is town, then he's not going to lie, so he's probably the cop. If Yamahako is scum, then he's going to be PRETTY SURE of someones alignment (Barring the things I've mentioned Prior) So Lowell being the cop at this point would actually make me more suspicious of Yamahako.

I hope I have explained enough on why I believe Lowell to be the cop. I understand that my trust of him makes you think I am scum. But I think you've gotten your wires crossed again, if I were scum I would want to be more skeptical of the cop and cast doubt on him. I would especially want to do that in this environment where a large portion of the players are casting doubt on him because it would let me blend in better. I'm not doing that, I'm voicing my opinion even in the dissension of the town trying to get my point across, and trying to keep potential innocents from being killed. I completely accept that I could be wrong about Lowell, however I don't feel that makes me mafia.

I'll make my post about other things in the game in a moment here. If you have more questions I'll gladly answer them.

[Yamahako]

There's too many lurkers Cheesefan has only ONE post. I think Rand was trying to bandwagon me, but he may have just misunderstood someone. I don't think IH is scum.

[Yamahako]

bah hit submit too early:

BULLETIN BOARD

From Day 1

"IH is scum! - The PO"

Should we take this with a grain of salt or consider it? Since anyone can post this it's a risk.

This is one thing I've noted. First, not everyone can post that. At least

I

couldn't have posted it. Another is - if Lowell is the cop and got an innocent, then this is obviously a message from scum - which means IH is more likely innocent. However, if Lowell is scum, then perhaps the real cop can only give his results through the board? I don't know what to make of it all thought.

I don't like this though:

Regardless, there is absolutely no reason Lowell cant claim who is his confirmed innocent-UNLESS that innocent has a power role. Scum are unlikely to waste an NK on someone who is a confirmed vanilla townie, and if they do, all well and good, because we get another night with all our power roles!

As IH said, the cop won't know if someone has a power role. Neither will scum know if an "innocent" has a power role. So this is some really bad logic, I might almost call it flapdoodle (but I'm not cool enough to).

[Yamahako]

how does your scenario benefit the town? It would be much better if the Doc DIDNT protect the cop, and the scum DIDNT attack the cop. However, because they are wary of this scenario, it is likely that the scum will target the Cop, and the Doc can protect. Its a vicious cycle, and i want everyone to be clear of the scenarios-ESPECIALLY the Doc.

It's always a WIFOM scenario with doc and mafia. But the doc should always protect the cop as far as everyone involved is concerned.

The real issue is this: Is the far-off chance that the mafia is going to attack the person you think they are worth the risk of not protecting the cop which would be the most likely scenario?

There are 5 possible scenarios:

Doc protects Cop - Mafia targets Cop - best case scenario for us
Doc protects Cop - Mafia targets someone else - we lose someone who is probably less important than the cop, they could nab cult or sk too which wouldn't be bad
Doc protects someone else - Mafia targets cop - worst case scenario, we lose the cop
Doc protects someone else - Mafia targets same person - the chance of this happening goes up and mafia is worse and the doc is better, but its still not a good chance.
Doc protects someone else - mafia targets a different someone else - we still lose someone (unless cult or sk again..)

So is the incredibly small chance that the doc will save someone the mafia is trying to kill worth the chance of losing the doc? That's the WIFOM, isn't it?

[Yamahako]

If Lowell is not the cop, then why wouldn't the best case scenario be for the real cop to counter claim? We'd bag us a scum right off the bat and confirm the cop all in one swoop.

I have to say I immensely dislike this logic. A counter-claim could very well be scum trying to kamakazi to get rid of the cop. As you say it, any counter claim would denounce Lowell as 100% positively scum. That is horribly wrong.*

Obviously you wouldn't take either person at face value if there WAS a counter claim. But given the strangness of Lowell's claim I would be skeptical of him if anyone else had come forward.

[Yamahako]

Pbug, why did you vote Yamahako?

a) I think he's scum, and there was no point in voting Rand Althor.
b) Your argument made sense.
c) Asparagus.

is it c?

[Yamahako]

Speaking of the bulletin board...

I don't understand why Yamahako would bring up the board if he is "pretty sure" about Lowell being the cop. Only he would have known my alignment, and he has explicitly told us he has an innocent.

I feel happy with a yama lynch at the moment.

I think the bulletin board kinda clears you if lowell is the cop :-/ I thought I said that already...

Part of my role involves putting things on the bulletin board as well, which is the only reason I'm curious about it... but I can only put one word at a time on it. That's as much as I'll say - but I'm town :-/

[Yamahako]

Yamahako – The one thing that stood out was the part where he said he could write on the bulletin board but only one word. It brought to mind a thread I read a couple of months back in the Mafia Discussion forums where someone suggested two roles, one where the town had a “media reporter” who could produce a message such as we have on the bulletin board, and a “propagandist” on the mafia side who could add/change one word of the message. Don't know what everyone thinks about that. I don't see that a role that can write one word can be of too great an advantage to the town

I wrote a word on the board last night. I don't know how helpful it is either :-/ I figured if I could only write one word, I'd write the biggest one I could think of.

[Yamahako]

its a lung disease caused by inhaling finite dust particles (like volcanic ash).

[Yamahako]

Po is a slag term for police where I'm from, but Post Office probably makes more sense

[Yamahako]

A good question is to ask if Lowell posted that before he claimed.

Unlikely considering he's claimed that he found an innocent night one. You really need to read a little more carefully.

[Yamahako]

Vote count please.

Vote Rand Althor

Seriously, you need to read, there's been like a grand total of 3 changes since the last vote count. You've posted nothing content wise since you voted me which seemed like some crap bandwagoning and very little before that. It seems like you're posting just so people don't think you're trying to lurk your way through day 1. If the odds are we hit a townie day one anyway - I'd rather it be an inattentive townie. I'd vote Ubertimmmy, but you're super-scummy in addition.

I think its something like:

Yamahako (4) - StallingChamp, Cloud, IH, PBuG
Rand Althor (3) - Toaster Strudel, kison, ~N9V~
ac1983fan (2) : OverTheUnder, ChannelDelibird
Lowell (1) - Ubertimmy
Ubertimmy (1) - Jules
Toaster Strudel (1) - theopor

Or:

Yamahako (4) - StallingChamp, Cloud, IH, PBuG
Rand Althor

(4)

- Toaster Strudel, kison, ~N9V~ ,

Yamahako

ac1983fan (2) : OverTheUnder, ChannelDelibird
Lowell (1) - Ubertimmy
Ubertimmy (1) - Jules
Toaster Strudel (1) - theopor

This now. Don't yell at me too much if its wrong, I'm really tired.
[/b]

[Yamahako]

All I wanted was a vote count which makes you go 51-50 on me and vote me. Why didn't you do it earlier.

Because earlier you thought you had a reason, but you've consistantly not been paying attention this game. Not responding to a large amount of information that's being discussed after days without posting to ask about a vote count that was simply 2 (maybe 3) changes different from the previous mod vote count (only two pages back) screams lazy to me.

Seriously, WHY did you want a vote count? Now that I showed you what the vote count is, are you going to contribute in any real way? Have you added discussion or insight into the game state? No? I thought not. Your request for a vote count was simply a tactic to make it look like you're paying attention to the game until night - when your real work will begin.

[Yamahako]

Why isn't Yamahako dead yet? Did anyone READ post 371? Did anyone notice he voted someone for asking for a VOTECOUNT?!?

Did you

read

my explination? See how he still hasn't made a vote, or made any attempt to contribute to the discussion? Actively lurking is scummy - I think I pointed that out. The request for a vote count wasn't my reason for voting- the timing, my interpretation of its intention, and Rand's response to my attack are why my vote stays where it is.

[Yamahako]

Still a stupid reason, that explanation didn't do anything for me, especially since the stimulus is from a votecount. Had you previously asked him to contribute or called him on it til just now?

Rand Althor wrote:
Vote:Yamahako I don't like you trying to lynch the cop and your defence is weak.

I've NEVER wanted to lynch the cop, OMG

does nobody have basic reading skills

?!

Rand Althor wrote:
A good question is to ask if Lowell posted that before he claimed.

Unlikely considering he's claimed that he found an innocent night one.

You really need to read a little more carefully.

Rand Althor wrote:
Vote count please.

Vote Rand Althor Seriously,

you need to read

Yeah I think I commented on it. Can you show me a post where he commented on information acurately? He isn't paying attention to the game, he hasn't posting anything remotely regarding the game currently that wasn't incorrect or lazy (vote count when only 3 people had voted since the last one). I guess my question is if you weren't misguided in your vote attempts on me, why WOULDN'T you be voting for Rand?

[Yamahako]

Because you're scum obviously Yamahako, bussing a buddy = P

Also I apologize for that one point.

I know you think I'm scum, I said if you DIDNT think I was scum, why wouldn't you be voting Rand?

[Yamahako]

Yamahako is scum. Please lynch him.

I'm not scum, please drop it.

[Yamahako]

Can we stop having whole pages of "I need to catch up"?

QFT :-/

[Yamahako]

oh yes, because 'QFT' is far more helpful!
I find myself in the same position as Lowell at the moment. The inactivity means that i havent seen anyone do anything scummy recently, so my vote on Kison has to stay for now.
if we could get some more discussion, that would be great.

I'm pretty sure I've been commenting on a good portion more of this game than most people...

and don't give me crap for agreeing with someone when you exemplify the behavior that was being admonished!!

[Yamahako]

Get your facts straight first. Show me a post in which i requested time to catch up.
I wasnt 'giving you crap', i was implying that you had no right to criticise other players for making spam posts, when you were a culprit of the exact same thing.

BM

You posted, basically, to say that you didn't have anything to say. That was pretty much what IH was talking about. Then you said you wanted more discussion without adding any.

WHY do you think Kison is a good lynch? Why don't you feel some of the front runners in votes are the right lynch choices?

[Yamahako]

Yamahako is scum. Please lynch him.

Hmm, how do you know this? Are you the real cop, and Lowell is lying? Or do you just

assume

that he is. There is a huge difference, and it could help us out greatly.

The real question is, did he intend it as a statement of fact? If I was lynched and came up as a town player (which I would), would that invoke lynch all liars?

For what its worth, there are town reasons to want to speed up play. An inactive game tends to need more replacements. Replacements tend to either die as townies, or make us lose connections with previous statements from scum (and vice versa, but generally its not in our favor). Keeping the game lively lets more people stay active and interested. A stagnant town is more likely to quick lynch on crap logic to keep the game moving.

That being said, there's a huge difference in speeding play up, and rushing through the day.

[Yamahako]

unvote, vote TS

Ok, having read up on TS, I'm going to switch my vote there. Voting the cop stands out more than anything. Ubertimmy is still high on my list but there seems to be more chance of a response from TS

The "voting the cop" was an error. I had missed the claim. Scum wouldn't give themselves away voting cops anyway.

That's, like, the weakest reason for a vote, ever.

Methinks you're trying to deflect attention away from your scumbuddy Yamahako. With help from your scumbudy theopor_COD.

You're not very good at it. Try to be more subtle next time.

vote: Jules

TS appeared out of it in the beginning of the game (real or planned is WIFOM). So I don't think its damning evidence. I'll re-read specifically for TS before I pass judgement, but I don't think he's the best wagon for today.

But TS, This is a terrible OMGUS vote. You're climbing high on my potential scum list. I don't see how this could be a deflectionary tactic - and I see how you're trying to tie you're OMGUS with crap logic. Even if it was a "simple mistake" it was incredibly thick... you didn't just miss the CLAIM, you missed the change in focus.

Actually, I'm not sure - and I don't have time, but I think you claimed you thought you were voting to give him bells, but are now claiming you missed the claim... This might be a LAL thing - I'll be able to look more into it tomorrow...

[Yamahako]

[quote="Toaster Strudel, post 131]I thought we were voting for bells... We're not voting for bells? I didn't want to lynch the cop, I wanted to give the bells to the cop!

unvote[/quote]

Post 131

[quote="Toaster Strudel, post 132]vote for BELLS: Lowell I am confused... [/quote]

[quote="Toaster Strudel, post 430]The "voting the cop" was an error. I had missed the claim. Scum wouldn't give themselves away voting cops anyway.

That's, like, the weakest reason for a vote, ever.[/quote]

Lynch All Liars?

Unvote, Vote Toaster Strudel

[Yamahako]

EBWDP

I thought we were voting for bells... We're not voting for bells? I didn't want to lynch the cop, I wanted to give the bells to the cop!

unvote

vote for BELLS: Lowell I am confused...

The "voting the cop" was an error. I had missed the claim. Scum wouldn't give themselves away voting cops anyway.

That's, like, the weakest reason for a vote, ever.

Lynch All Liars?

Unvote, Vote Toaster Strudel

[Yamahako]

Yamahako is scum. Please lynch him.

Hmm, how do you know this? Are you the real cop, and Lowell is lying? Or do you just

assume

that he is. There is a huge difference, and it could help us out greatly.

Are you stupid, or just pretending to be? No, I'm not the fucking cop. I believe(d) Lowell.

I'd recommend using less direct statements. 'Yamahako

is

scum', implies a fact. Not Yamahako

might

be scum, or

I think

Yamahako is scum, but Yamahako

is

scum?

If you don't want people questioning your meaning, then don't be so obviously obtuse. That statement of fact implies something that you're now denying. I don't see how you have a reason to be so hostile when its a legitimate question given the wording of your statement.

[Yamahako]

anyone want to comment on how TS tripped up his story?

[Yamahako]

Lynch all liars? Uh? Where's the lie? There's no lie. To claim that t's a lie, is a lie! To lynch all liars, lynch Yamahako.

vote: Yamahako

First you say that you were voting Lowell to "give the cop bells". Then later you claim you were voting Lowell because you "missed the cop claim ". One of those things cannot be true and therefore is a lie.

[Yamahako]

Lynch all liars? Uh? Where's the lie? There's no lie. To claim that t's a lie, is a lie! To lynch all liars, lynch Yamahako.

vote: Yamahako

First you say that you were voting Lowell to "give the cop bells". Then later you claim you were voting Lowell because you "missed the cop claim ". One of those things cannot be true and therefore is a lie.

Maybe I what would be more accurate is that I missed that the vote had switched from "bells" to "lynching." Regardless, I did not doubt Lowell's claim, and I didn't intend to vote for him for "lynch" I wanted to vote for him for "bells." I am sorry if my second statement was contradictory, but this happened a long time back in the game, and I am playing many games, so the details were fuzzy.

Its not a simple matter of symantics. Voting him because you missed that we had changed from voting for bells to voting for lynch is completely different from "I missed the cop claim." I don't feel as though it can be dismissed as simply "a long time back in the game" I feel this is a legitimate scum slip. Either one is bad enough on its own, but together they scream "I want to be lynched!"

[Yamahako]

The fact that I did not recollect correctly, doesn't change the actual event. It's not a slip, especially not a scum slip.

Are you being stubbornly illogical on purpose? In other words, is it an act, or does it come naturally?

Where's the fallacy in my logic? Voting for the cop because you "missed that we were voting to lynch" is scummy. Voting for the cop because you "missed the claim" is scummy too. Contradicting your reasoning behind you defense is scummy. All of these things add up to something that can be so simply explained away. It doesn't matter that any one of those things may be misinterpreted as a townie's accident, its the fact that there are three glaring problems that has me voting for you.

And it is a slip, even if you are town and misremembered or misquoted something its still a slip.

[Yamahako]

FOS Yama

I was certain of your innocence a few pages back, but this latest argument looks like reaching. Maybe there's a case against TS, but this isn't it. I'm no longer convinced of your innocence.

The fact that you're going so far out of your way to attack anyone who has even vaguely threatened me makes me think you're just trying to get on my good side-- and that makes me suspiciuos.

Its not reaching. It's very simple

1. TS votes the cop after we switch from voting for bells to voting for lynch - he claims he missed switch. He specifically refers to Lowell as the cop.
2. TS defends him self by saying he missed the cop claim.

Both of these individually are scummy. He picked up some votes for the first one. On their own either one is not necessarily something that would deserve a lynch (although day one it doesn't take much).

When you put the two together you get

3. TS lied about he reasoning for voting Lowell.

That's a serious mistake. This is like someone misquoting their claim. Lynch all Liars exists for a reason. Its to help townies breed a culture of tighter play, and be more deliberate in what they post. It's also a good method of catching scum. Townies on the whole are more careful. Personally I don't see too much difference in the explanation of her vote to account it for a mere forgetfulness. I think its a legitimate scum slip.

[Yamahako]

that post is terrible grammatically, sorry

[Yamahako]

vote BM

. You're being lazy or scummy. My guess is both.

You people seriously need to stop voting TS. These reasons against him are pretty stupid.

Unvote TS

Vote Rand

[Yamahako]

huh? any explanation for that vote change, as i cant see how the post you quoted is relevant to it...

Ignore the part about him voting for you.

[Yamahako]

Lowell, please explain how the reasons against TS are stupid? I thought Theoper's analysis was pretty direct. I could handle her accidentally voting you at that one point, but the lurking, not paying attention thing really bothers me.

Yamahako, why are you so quick to take your vote off based solely on Lowell's request? I thought you were making a case against her, now you suddenly drop it? What's up with that?

sigh, didn't Lowell get an innocent last night? I didn't want to have to point that out :-/

[Yamahako]

Oh, sorry, Yama. That's my bad.

For the record, that was

NOT

me revealing who I investigated last night. Even if TS is that person, I'll wait until the last possible moment before revealing such information, and when I do so I will be very very clear about it.

My asking you to reconsider your vote was just me saying I don't agree with the case, that's all. I didn't mean to intimidate you off the vote if you believe in it.

Good to know

Unvote, Vote TS

[Yamahako]

I'm here.... I'm extremely apathetic, because Yamahako scum is still alive... I may do a pbp if I can get the work ethic to do it.

save your time and look for real scum. or vote TS or Rand - both far more likely candidates than I am.

Unless scum makes an obvious slip up - don't forget that everything is circumstantial and speculative on day 1. PBP analysis is all but useless.

You continued insistance in my scum alignment makes you seem suspicious to me, but not enough for me to think you're town.

[Yamahako]

TS, use the filter. I've done it about 7 times probably.

I'm pretty sure to paraphrase it - he thinks I'm scum because I attacked him for wanting to announce the innocent result from today, and because I am accepting the fact that Lowell is the cop. Oh and that I attacked rand for "requesting a vote count" when I explained pretty conclusively why I did it.

He could be voting for someone who made a scum slip - but I guess my defense of a potential confirmed innocent, defense of the un-counter claimed cop, and attack of people actively lurking is more scummy... go figure.

If I am missing anything please let me know IH, I'd check back but as I'm town any 'case' you have against me seems pretty irrelevant in my eyes - I apologize.

[Yamahako]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 828#544828\

Here's the link. Good grief.

Anyway. Looks like Yamahako's summary was correct after all. Thanks for wasting hours of my time.

at the bottom of each thread is a place where you can choose from a drop down box to only display the posts by a particular person in the thread - it took me a while to find it the first time - sorry you wasted so much time

The search function can't discriminate like that unfortunatly

[Yamahako]

No. 37th post in this thread.

503 posts have been made since that huge post - and the next post by me is a fairly (IMO lol) intellegent post explaining away most, if not all, of his attacks.

I don't think IH is scum, I think he's focused on me - which is something I tend to do as well - but IH maybe you should regroup your attack on me for tomorrow. If you haven't gotten the town with you in 503 posts, maybe you're barking up the wrong tree for now?

In the interest of moving this day toward conclusion - who else do you find scummy?

[Yamahako]

I am uncommonly dim! Ooo-weee! That's not a new discovery. Please read my Wiki page:

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... er_Strudel

You usually play rather intelligently.

Note that I mean all of you

. Even as TS you play exceptionally well.

\

huh?

[Yamahako]

OTU

: What is your role's name?

Let's wait on this a sec - for right now OTU was your result a guilty or innocent last night - don't need to know who, just need to know what the result was.

Please don't ask questions about or debate this question until OTU answers - unless its "Don't answer OTU" or "Why haven't you answered yet OTU?"

The fact that you didn't claim a result in your opening post makes me suspicious, and the fact that you decided to claim this long after Lowell's claim makes me doubly suspicious.

The real question is why now... but I'll wait till you answer the first OTU

[Yamahako]

The other question to consider is this - since OTU is very likely scum why the necessity to counter right now? It was a very risky move and OTU wasn't under scrutiny barely at all.. maybe to save a power scum role in Rand or TS?

Just food for thought

oh, and

unvote, Vote OTU

[Yamahako]

see the vacation thread, I will have limited access until may 8th

[Yamahako]

Theo!

What was the rush???

It would have been nice to know OTU's "innocent" if only for laughs.

listen to your scum buddy theo - you never drop the hammer when you're mafia - it always makes you look suspcious!

lolz

[Yamahako]

After all that :-/ Go town

[Yamahako]

I will have a substantial post, and a vote, by the end of today. I don't think anyone wants a no lynch.

[Yamahako]

still working on my post

Unvote

[Yamahako]

Ok done reading. There's a lot of pages of nothing

obvious

happening. My 4 top suspicions were Grek (is apparently confirmable), Shanba (is also apparently confirmable), Hackerhuck (is conveniently

not

confirmable), and TS (unkown).

I'm willing to give Hackerhuck the benefit of the doubt

for now

as the balance of a naive cop fits the scenario, though I feel that admitting your "proven" naievity wasn't a great pro-town move. Keeping it in the dark could have redirected night moves by scum against you leaving Lowell safer :-/

I feel ok with a

Vote TS

right now.

Day one, she has a "slip-up" with the claimed doc. Then the hops from wagon to wagon for the rest of the game. I don't see a considerable amount of unique analytical from her AND there's the thing with the Will. I could potentially see the WIFOM there - however BM willed one scum and one DEAD town role (ie no risk) - there's no way BM could predict the other scum dying that night as well - leaving no reason to not send the last bell to his other scum mate.

I haven't seen the thing everyone else is seeing that is making people not want to vote her, and I'm not asking it be pointed out necessarily - but as I don't see it I'm happy with this vote.

[Yamahako]

Well, I'm happy to wagon TS. I was keen on her lynch earlier in the game, but a couple of you

"spotted something"

that made you think she was town.

That's right. Read my posts, and try to spot it yourself.

@ Yamahako - the above applies to you, too. Don't be lazy.

Re-reading a 46 page game in 1 day, specifically looking for something to "spot" starting on day 2 (requiring a

re

-reread of day 1) and I didn't see it. Don't call me lazy, if you please. Oblivious and dumb perhaps, but not lazy.

If there's some code, invisitext or subliminal claim, I didn't find it. And at this point - if it is as obvious as everyone is saying (and lot's of people have mentioned it - scum would be keen to scour), then perhaps its even more suspicious that you're alive.

[Yamahako]

I'm Tom Nook, I know what people buy from my store, but I don't get the money, and I don't know what any of the items do. I can confirm this ability by naming what someone bought last night - if they want me to. Also, once per game I can close the store down. I didn't really see a good reason to do this last night, since letting Lowell buy stuff seemed like it would always be a good idea... But I can do that tomorrow to prove myself as well.

I'll comment on everything later, but I know my claim is important for today.

[Yamahako]

Clarification: I find out *when* they buy something... I didn't really understand how buying something worked.

If someone were to buy something right now - I could name who it was and what they bought (for an example). Someone bought something earlier today, I could name the person and the item if they wanted to confirm my ability.

[Yamahako]

You just bought a peachy shirt.

Yeah Tar I thought the same thing :-/ but I don't know what to tell you. I'm not going to lie about who I am :-/

[Yamahako]

Neither did I,

Vote Lowell for bells

[Yamahako]

ACtually TS was a cop variant, and Hackerhuck is claiming to be a cop variant. I'm wondering which of you is least likely telling the truth (while accepting that both of you could be....) Seeing no doc and you still alive

is

strange in all honesty...

[Yamahako]

Tar is either Godfather or town...

[Yamahako]

Maybe Grek can't use his ability on a night he kills... there were two kills last night. Assuming 1 Scum left - Perhaps he used a certain item and made a kill? Also considering we haven't heard from him yet

Vote Grek

Until he responds

[Yamahako]

So he disappears today? And can't post? I don't remember him saying that was his ablity...

This doesn't seem like a pro-town ability, can he be lynched? If so that really sounds like something that would be good as mafia. Hiders are usually (but not always) pro-town... but I've been a hider as mafia before.

[Yamahako]

There is one more piece of information that I now want out in the open.

Yamahako - Can you please tell us the names of every player who has purchased an Axe during the course of the game?

I wish I could, Primate didn't have all the information. As of when I took over the role, only 1 person had an axe - grek :-/ Primate could only give me an inventory of what each person has right now.

This was my other reason for suspecting him - the weird death last night. But I don't suspect you would need to be scum necessarily to use an axe.

Unless people used items last night (I don't know when or who uses them) I did know what everyone had and of course can confirm this.

Unvote

I had forgotten the full claim as well

[Yamahako]

Unvote, Vote Hackerhuck

I feel ok about this lynch and I will have extremely limited access until tuesday.

[Yamahako]

Wow. So we must be after an SK, eh?

Or does anyone want to claim responsibility for that kill.

For the record, I investigated Hacker and got an innocent. But, like I said, I think we're most likely dealing with investigation-proof role at this point anyway.

I'm sorry if I'm being lazy, but just in case innocents matter, who all is alive and has recieved an innocent now?

[Yamahako]

So everyone has been investigated but me. As Hackerhuck used a lantern on Lowell last night (and I can confirm that he bought one yesterday).

I would offer myself up for the lynch, however there's a strong possibility that if I die, the remaining scum could NK/Axe the two people who don't have a peachy shirt (assuming one of those people isn't scum) and still pull out a win. No one has an axe right now as far as I know, but Hacker bought his lantern right before night, so its possible someone could buy one before I could let people know who it was (and die tonight so I can't let people know who it was). I could close the shop tonight (should have done it yesterday :-/ but I wasn't thinking), so no one could buy an axe tomorrow, in case scum don't have enough money for an Axe. Because of the potential of a loss, I'd rather not send myself to the gallows - and would rather grab the scum. I can understand if my lack of confirmation give you all a different opinion.

Did anyone with a Peachy Shirt get a message that they were targeted for a night kill, but survived? Theoretically, Grek used the axe when he left town for the day and thus was using his ability and couldn't also kill, and the other scum used a night kill that night. But we only had 1 night kill last night and I assume that Grek didn't kill himself, and so was cross killed by an SK or another scum.

[Yamahako]

EBWDP:
So I'm wondering if someone was targeted by Grek. but survived is the reason for my question.

[Yamahako]

Looking at stalling's posts, HH's claim does fit. I'm putting him on my "unlikely" list at this point.

I'm moving Tar up higher and higher as we go on, especially given his last post. If it is true that HH is naive, then I DON'T think it is unreasonable to think that we'd have a cop, naive cop, and a tracker-sorta-thing. That's 1 pure investigaive role and 2 quasi-investigative roles, plus a "fake" investigative role (HH). In general, naive cops do more bad than good (outing real cops, countering real cops, etc). This could make up for the balance...

As well, your reaction to discovering Stalling's hidden message doesn't add up. Your first reaction should have been, "oh, that clears HH." NOT, "oh, therefore Lowell is a suspect."

It's down to Yama and Tar for me now. Despite Tar's earlier post, I'm still leaning towards him being town thanks to his general playstyle and activeness.

vote yama

. To get things moving.

If it's not yama, I'll be voting for Tar tomorrow.

I can't in good consious vote for myself, because I think Scum being able to buy axes and only 2 peachy shirts being in circulation can make this end badly for town. Almost anyone is a better choice if we have a investigation immune SK - since I can close down the store and verify who buys an Axe.

I hope we're doing the right thing.

[Yamahako]

I hope we're doing the right thing.

What is that supposed to mean?

It means I can't think of a better plan, but since I know I'm town and still have a useful ability, I'm hoping it all turns out for the best...

It also means, that when I come up town tomorrow, with 1 or more other townies dead, There will be a lynch or lose scenario (if 2 die).

Given his actions today, I could guess at a ckillor SK (he's the person playing the game) that is investigation immune - especially with so many supposed cops around. Today he's given off the "good job killing the GF" tell, and the either or tell that scum usually have. Aside from him, I don't have a clue who else might be mafia - or SK, its kind of a toss of the dice.

Since I actually have some suspicion of Ckillor, I'll throw my vote in that direction

Vote Ckillor

. I don't expect people to follow me in that direction, but obviously knowing I'm town I can't vote for myself.

[Yamahako]

Hmm I expected a more dramatic reaction than silence.

Folks, I'm pretty sure about this one. Comments, concerns?

You haven't really led us wrong yet. I can see Tar's point, but there's just no way a Mafiate would bus their buddies like that. I think Tar is too quick to dismiss Ckillor as a potential SK (though I admit its likely a stretch), and I wouldn't consider it if it weren't for the 2 semi-tells from earlier today.

Unvote, Vote Tar

I don't see much else happening, and 3 days without a lynch seems like a really bad Idea.

[Yamahako]

I closed the shop last night.

We are at Lynch or lose and obviously I didn't kill (I used my ability to close the shop).

It's either Lowell or Ckillor. I'm leaning toward Ckillor as an SK...

[Yamahako]

with the two other nook characters from the game being mafia, it really does seem like it would fit for you to be maf.

i have proven my abilities a few times, and im not a serial killer.

I can't verify anything about the clock, since it wasn't bought from my store.

I think that the other nook people was to balance the potential power of my role

[Yamahako]

the first clock i bought from your store though.

yeah, I just can't confirm the second one.

[Yamahako]

I can't block anyone, and I don't have any items that would do that.

If you targeted me, which is likely considering you've already targeted ckillor, maybe closing the shop last night make me untargetable? I can't think of any reason why it would, and nothing in my pm suggests that - so I assume Ckillor must have used an item.

With a Naive cop, and a Half cop - I'm inclined to believe Lowell is an actual cop. His play has been very beneficial for town, and he's taken credit for nks of mafia members.

Ckillor yesterday was doing an either/or scum tell yesterday. His roll is a bunch of 1-shot abilities and he's the only person who ISN'T from the town. Today he's seeming to toss suspicion two different ways

again

(Both me and Lowell look scummy). In the end game, that looks suspicious to me as though he just wants someone to drop a vote. (lowell for me, or me for lowell). The night Grek died, ONLY he died, grek didn't kill anyone. The night before, he left town and we were short a kill (2, but one from an Axe). Grek either didn't target someone, or targeted someone who was immune to night kills - possibly an SK. I'm thinking Ckillor is an SK with 1-shot abilities, who is nk immune. The other option is Grek targeted Ckillor - and Ckillor used his peachy shirt. Ckillor and Lowell are the only people who have had them since I joined the game.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on everything Lowell.

[Yamahako]

yama, why would ckillor as SK would have so many one-shot abilities (in addition to being investigation-immune)?

I'm not sure, I've never modded a game. but as far as I can tell being an SK is a really hard job - and they might need all the help they can get. Investigation immune is a standard SK ability as far as I know.

Is it possible that some of his "1-shot" abilities are mirrored in items that can be purchased? allowing him to be able to kill?

[Yamahako]

well his role Tom nook fits in with two of the other scum
6) ~N9V~ (Tommy/Scum) Lynched Day 2
14) Battle Mage (Timmy/Scum) Killed Night 4

in the game timmy and tommy are nooks nephews(or sons, i forget which) and since they are both scum, it fits that nook would be too

Except that I closed my store last night. There was a normal kill last night. I couldn't have done both. The night Grek left town, there was only 1 normal kill and 1 axe kill (Grek used his axe and a night action). If Grek could have done both, there would have been 3 night kills.

This leaves either you or Lowell, and I'm pretty sure it isn't Lowell, but I'm willing to hear you out - I'm in no hurry to lynch.

Lowell could have just been all balls to the wall, and pulled of the most amazing mafia play ever, but I think its more likely he's town and you're an interesting SK

on thinking about it - if all Ckillors one-shot abilities could be duplicated with items, then its possible the SK just got more bells than most people to spend.

[Yamahako]

but are there items that allow people to write letters to other players or write on the bulliten board?

i don't see why you couldn't do both? i have been in werewolf games where you could use more than one power each night.

The Night Grek hid from the town, there were only 2 kills. 1 Axe Kill, and 1 Regular kill. We know Grek had the Axe, and we know that after Grek died there was still one person who could make a normal NK.

Considering Grek was killed by a normal NK, we have to assume the two people who could NK weren't on the same team. In addition, since there was only 1 NK that night, we have to assume that Grek

couldn't

have used his NK - since a mafia godfather would have definitely used his kill if he could have.

This, to me, says that you can't use two abilities at night. CKillor, you would know more than I would about this - since you have multiple abilities, however you have to think that if Grek could have killed, he would have.

I have one passive ability that I don't "use", and a one-shot ability that I used last night (and this is confirmed by the mod).

In addition, the last scum CAN'T be mafia. Because there appears to be only 1 mafia group, and Grek was night killed. This means an SK. So while Tom might be suspicious because of his connection to Tommy and Timmy, it can't be because they were in the same mafia. I personally believe that the power of my role was balanced by the suspicious nature of Tommy and Timmy being related to me.

I'm not sure but I think there are things that let you make messages at least...

[Yamahako]

Good point.. I thought that Ckillor hadn't used any of his abilities since I'd replaced in - but he wrote on the bulletin board didn't he?

Ckillor had a net when I replaced in - I dunno what he might have purchased before that, he purchased a peachy shirt since then - but that's all he had. I can't imagine a net letting you write on the bulletin board. I don't know what most of the things do. Primate couldn't tell me what people had purchased previous to me joining the game - so I can't accurately comment on previous abilities.

Now I'm going to have to go back and try and look at kills on nights where Ckillor claimed abilities... but still it doesn't really matter - as Ckillor is claiming you can kill and use an ability at night - I can't confirm that myself, and only you or Ckillor could (and the one that could would be mafia).

Since I know who I am, and I'm pretty sure if you're mafia you're the best gambit player ever, it has to be ckillor :-/

[Yamahako]

sorry missed a pm - ckillor also bought an owl clock last night

[Yamahako]

Sorry for tripple posting, but I didn't think about this till just now - does a net roleblock?

[Yamahako]

yes it does, a selective roleblock of whoever you want, a shovel allows you to bury a pitfall, but it selects a random person. i got a shovel from my nightchoice on oct 11, i don't know which night that was. i ended up giving away my net to buy the peachy shirt because you can only have 2 items. i should of checked and given away my shovel but i forgot. i will send you the shovel just to prove it if you want

When I replaced into the game, you had a net and nothing else... then you bought a peachy shirt. That first night you're saying you used an ability and got a shovel? Before you bought the peachy shirt - and had to get rid of the shirt to keep the shovel?

Then you bought a clock, and found another clock? But you still have the shovel?

well, i used my last ability last night. -check the lost and found for a cheap item, and i got an owl clock, so now i have two. i also used my peachy shirt just in case, but looks like who ever it is didn't try to kill me.

This doesn't add up, if you bought the clock, but still have the shovel, you'd have to have gotten rid of the shirt - but you said you used the shirt last night. Then you got another clock (last night you claim), you'd have had to have gotten rid of a clock you bought to keep that one in order to keep the shovel...

I'm pretty darn close to being sure its you.

[Yamahako]

I'd like to propose a far more likely idea:

You had a net. You bought a peachy shirt to test my ability -

you

wanted to test it because it was really important that you knew what I could do since I could mess with your claim.

You got rid of your shirt to buy a clock - keeping the net and getting rid of the shirt (which you don't need since you're the last killer). You used the net on Lowell and claimed to use the shirt.

You can "give me a shovel" and when I say I never got it, you will claim I'm a lying scum to try and force my lynch for the win.

The roleblocker said that he could post messages - its very possible you can as well.

[Yamahako]

Vote CKillor

[Yamahako]

Well its pretty obvious who the last scum is now. Well played Lowell, well played indeed. I'm in awe of your gumption!

Vote Lowell

[Yamahako]

oh, and

vote yama

yama, I investigated you and got a guilty. I think you should change your vote.

Wow you are actually lying... there's absolutely no way you got a guilty on me.

I'm ok if day ends

[Yamahako]

Vote No lynch

[Yamahako]

or

Unvote, Vote No lynch

if its required

[Yamahako]

Wow, I had assumed I'd get an innocent if investigated since it said I was a Godfather! Go go random Cop roleblocking!

Things I felt really lucky about:
Killing Grek - and him being a Godfather
being able to close the shop

and

kill in the same night.
lowell deciding to go after Tar
Lowell not having enough bells to buy another peachy shirt after buying his axe or just chosing not to do so.

After lowell bought and axe - I had just enough to buy a peachy shirt and I did so, if Lowell had bought a peachy shirt after, I think we would have tied the next night.

[Yamahako]

Good game, Yama.

I'm very disappointed in myself for this one. I feel like we had this game under control.

The whole game it never occured to me that we were dealing with 2 mafia groups rather than a mafia and an SK.

Tar and ckillor, in particular... sorry!

I was suprised that no one had considered it - and used that to my advantage in the last few days for sure. Grek being a Godfather seriously helped me out in that respect.

[Yamahako]

What role part was wrong and needed to be fixed?

[Yamahako]

ahh ok