Animal Crossing Mafia: Game over

[IH]

Still this argument. I thought your whole point of having him reveal was to test his sanity? I still do not understand how you plan on using his investigation result to figure out if he's scum. Like I said, and like I will continue to say,

The cop can reveal innocent or scum
The scum can reveal innocent or scum

With both having the same ability, how does his revelation prove or disprove his alignment? You said something about him not being able to make things up as he goes along, but I'm not sure I understood what you meant. So, please clarify that plan so that I can see what you're getting.

WROWNG WROWNG WROWNG!

No the whole point was to validate it down the road. If he actually IS the cop, then it's an added bonus that we know his sanity.

The cop can reveal innocent or scum
the scum

cannot in certainty do this

. All of the possiblities I'm about to list are possible.

1.A cult-A cult is where someone calls a cult leader brings in a town into his scum group everynight. They cannot kill.
2.A second scum group-Sometimes there are more than one group of mafia. If there is a second group of mafia, they will not work with his mafia, so he now has a problem revealing his investigation results until they have become confirmed.
3.An Sk (or two)-An Sk, or serial killer, is a killer who works alone, thats not in the group. He wins when EVERYONE but him is dead.
4.

a miller

-If he reveals someone as innocent, and that person comes up as a miller, then that cop is lying, as a town miller shows up guilty on investigations.

Any one of these could be avoided if he waits to claim results, in which people will become more and more confirmed. The only people that he can out safely and without a problem as a cop is his own team, and I doubt he wants to do that to much, because he will eventually be counterclaimed, and he will cripple his own team.

[Kison]

Ok, I'll admit that I hadn't take that into consideration. I'm going to

unvote

for now and comment more in depth when I have time.

[Yamahako]

WROWNG WROWNG WROWNG!

No the whole point was to validate it down the road. If he actually IS the cop, then it's an added bonus that we know his sanity.

The cop can reveal innocent or scum
the scum

cannot in certainty do this

. All of the possiblities I'm about to list are possible.

1.A cult-A cult is where someone calls a cult leader brings in a town into his scum group everynight. They cannot kill.
2.A second scum group-Sometimes there are more than one group of mafia. If there is a second group of mafia, they will not work with his mafia, so he now has a problem revealing his investigation results until they have become confirmed.
3.An Sk (or two)-An Sk, or serial killer, is a killer who works alone, thats not in the group. He wins when EVERYONE but him is dead.
4.

a miller

-If he reveals someone as innocent, and that person comes up as a miller, then that cop is lying, as a town miller shows up guilty on investigations.

Any one of these could be avoided if he waits to claim results, in which people will become more and more confirmed. The only people that he can out safely and without a problem as a cop is his own team, and I doubt he wants to do that to much, because he will eventually be counterclaimed, and he will cripple his own team.

I agree with everything you're saying. These are all excellent reasons why a mafia member would be remiss to claim cop. Which is why I find it less likely that lowell isn't the cop.

I still don't see a reason to give the MAFIA free innocents to kill that have nearly zero repercussions with regards to what they've said in the game. If someone dies, you can read through the game pretending you're mafia and try to see who would have wanted that person to die - maybe someone tried a mini-wagon on that person, maybe there was some subtle tension, whatever it was that made the mafia want to choose that kill. If Lowell announces his innocent that person will die. And there will be NOTHING we can glean from that night kill. You're basically cutting the amount of SOLID information we can use to nail scum in HALF.

IF you give a crap about my opinion - we need to hear a guilty from Lowell to test him. THEN we can work with his list. Until then we are endangering townies. Also, until he gets a guilty, we don't have to hear from his list and can just treat him like a townie since innocents will only be helpful if we are trying to lynch one.

[Yamahako]

From Day 1
"IH is scum! - The PO"

I saw this while checking on something heh

[IH]

Way to completely prove my point about why my vote is on you. = )

[Kison]

Yomahako, IH is right that it is not a guaranteed kill for scum, depending on the layout of the scum party. For example, I was in a game elsewhere where there were two of us against twenty, and we didn't know anything about eachother. If Lowell names someone "townie" and we later lynch them and they turn up scum, then he's been caught.

The thing is, I don't know if it's worth risking. How many nights would this take? If Lowell is cop, we lose a valuable list in the future. If he's scum, well, we just get rid of another scum. The real cop would eventually speak up, otherwise he'd be wasting his role. At that time, we can consider getting rid of him.

[Cloud]

Any one of these could be avoided if he waits to claim results, in which people will become more and more confirmed. The only people that he can out safely and without a problem as a cop is his own team, and I doubt he wants to do that to much, because he will eventually be counterclaimed, and he will cripple his own team.

However, if he actually is the cop, we risk losing a few innocents. Is that worth catching him out as a fake cop?

If he is indeed scum, what harm can he do? If he gives us a guilty, and it turns out innocent, then we know he's scum and we lynch him. If he gives us an innocent, we just ignore him until he can give us a guilty. Sooner or later, he'll give us a guilty and we'll know if he's truly a cop. If he's scum and gives us a guilty, then he's sacrificing one of he's own mafia mates, or he's lying and we'll know he's scum. If he's a cop, he'll give us a guilty, and there goes a scum.

This way, we only lose one innocent if he is indeed a lying scum. With your method, we risk losing a lot more.

So what I propose with Lowell - Ignore him until he gets a guilty.
1. He's a real cop and we kill scum.
2. He's scum and lying about his guilty, thus we lose a townie but we know he's scum and we kill him.
3. He's scum and not lying about his guilty, thus we kill a scum anyway.

We get a scum eventually with those, and the most we lose is one townie, as opposed to endangering countless more if he reveals innocents.

--

Moving on,

Vote: Yamahako

Opinions are just that, opinions. They aren't anything substantial, and there's no way someone should vote based on early opinions. Suggesting we should vote off our supposed cop is no way to go about making a successful lynch.

Not to mention, pointing out the Bulletin Board seemed like a desperate to add some credibility to your argument, when we all know very well not to take the Bulletin Board at face value.

--

Can we get a vote count please?

[Cloud]

EBWOP

"So what I propose with Lowell - Ignore him until he gets a guilty.

When that happens:[/b]"

In case that wasn't clear.

[StallingChamp]

Adding to that, I say we give Lowell a reasonable time period (say 3-4 days) to give us a guilty. We dont want scum to be able to keep getting innocents.

[Yamahako]

IF you give a crap about my opinion - we need to hear a guilty from Lowell to test him. THEN we can work with his list. Until then we are endangering townies. Also, until he gets a guilty, we don't have to hear from his list and can just treat him like a townie since innocents will only be helpful if we are trying to lynch one.

So what I propose with Lowell - Ignore him until he gets a guilty.

Looks like we are on the same page... wait a minute...

Moving on,

Vote: Yamahako

Opinions are just that, opinions. They aren't anything substantial, and there's no way someone should vote based on early opinions. Suggesting we should vote off our supposed cop is no way to go about making a successful lynch.

Buh what?!

[Cloud]

We might agree, but that doesn't change the fact that you thought it was alright to vote off our claimed cop. Not to mention you voted IH for the sake of following the bandwagon and without providing any reason.

[Yamahako]

We might agree, but that doesn't change the fact that you thought it was alright to vote off our claimed cop. Not to mention you voted IH for the sake of following the bandwagon and without providing any reason.

What?! I think you need to re-read I've NEVER said I was in favor of lynching the cop. I said that if you thought Lowell was lying then you should vote him - because he's either scum or the cop.

I made it pretty clear that I was voting IH because he was trying to out an innocent. But I guess you would have missed that... seeing as how you're not bothering to read very well.

[Cloud]

Actually, if you don't think Lowell is the cop, then VOTE him.

I never said you were in favour of lynching the cop. I said that you thought it was alright to vote the cop. If you truly believe Lowell is innocent, then why the hell did you say it was alright to vote him? Why did you bother saying that?

As for your 'pretty clear' reasoning, let's take a look:

And

FOS: IH

Your idea is dumb, and you're defending your scum mate then?

Lowell's idea was dumb too, and you're 'pretty sure' he's our cop.

sigh,

Unvote, Vote IH

Funny, no reasoning here. Just following Toaster Strudel's vote.

Unvote, Vote IH

And for some reason, you do it again, without reasoning and following StallingChamp's vote.

If the pretty clear reasoning you're referring to is this, a post far removed from your votes:

You're pretty confirmed too, since you're trying to use craplogic to pit the town against the cop.

then I'll remind you of Lowell's 'craplogic' idea of -drawing the cop out- (which isn't very dissimilar to what you accuse IH of doing), who you seem to be a big fan of. Fan enough to give Lowell one of your bells. Perhaps it was a genuine belief that he was innocent. Perhaps it was a sly way of mafia exchanging bells to buy better items.

I'll admit that I didn't read the all your posts word for word as I was skimming back through the thread looking for your votes before, so I'm sorry if the reasoning you provided for your votes was located a page before/after your votes.

It just seems to me you were only comfortable with voting IH when other people were, and not because of your own reasons.

[Toaster Strudel]

Adding to that, I say we give Lowell a reasonable time period (say 3-4 days) to give us a guilty. We dont want scum to be able to keep getting innocents.

That's not necessary. Sooner or later, we'll lose the doc because we pressure the wrong person, or he gets nightkilled. Meanwhile, until he's dead, we don't have to have faith in his innocents.

vote: Yamahako

[Yamahako]

I first started throwing suspicion toward IH in post 168, but I was voting AC1983fan because he was supporting IH's idea.

I switched my vote from AC1983fan to IH in post 191 because AC1983fan insinutaed that he had an ability - I even said "sigh" because I hate it when town gives so many good people for scum to choose from. And as I had mentioned earlier in the thread, I was suspicious of IH.

Looks like there's 5 votes on me, and 10 or 11 to lynch? I still don't understand my wagon at all, but I think there's lots of people who aren't posting :-/

[Twito]

YARRR!
Me is gonna be back SOOOOOON!
Well I kinda am here I'm just not contributing..

[ac1983fan]

I switched my vote from AC1983fan to IH in post 191 because AC1983fan insinutaed that he had an ability - I even said "sigh" because I hate it when town gives so many good people for scum to choose from. And as I had mentioned earlier in the thread, I was suspicious of IH.

I never said I had an ability, I said a had a role...

[IH]

Yamahako, were you throwing suspicion on me, or were you suspicious of me?

ALL RIGHT! I think I have a compromise. OK, if we let Lowell go on to day 4, this whole argument I made was pointless.

TOMORROW, Lowell reveals both results, assuming they both live. This gives us a medium by keeping confirmeds alive, and having an early record of Lowells investigations.

unvote

for the moment.... I need to reread a little bit. Probably moving to Yamahako.

[Yamahako]

I was suspcious of you IH, and I think I could get behind something being revealed tomorrow by Lowell, as then Mafia would always be working a day behind - and there would be a lot more info we could get from the killings.

[Rand Althor]

Vote:Yamahako

I don't like you trying to lynch the cop and your defence is weak.

[Yamahako]

Vote:Yamahako

I don't like you trying to lynch the cop and your defence is weak.

I've NEVER wanted to lynch the cop, OMG does nobody have basic reading skills?!

[Toaster Strudel]

unvote, vote: Rand Althor

[Kison]

Vote: Rand al'Thor

It is true that Yamahako did not say that he wanted to lynch the cop. In fact, I disagree whole heartedly with the bandwagon because of how people have twisted what he said. But he reiterated his meaning and you still decided to vote for him with the excuse of the initial misinterpretation.

[~N9V~]

Unvote Vote: Rand Althor

trying to twist up peeps words isn't ever good. And yes, reading back, Yamahako never said anything about wanting to lynch the cop.

[Rand Althor]

We might agree, but that doesn't change the fact that you thought it was alright to vote off our claimed cop. Not to mention you voted IH for the sake of following the bandwagon and without providing any reason.

So you vote me, but not vote Cloud which is where I got the idea from?