Newbie 988-Apocalypse(Over)-Scum win

[Dekes]

Hey, everyone!

Name's Mike and as you can see, I'm from Germany, so there may be some time zone delay since most of you folks seem to be American.
Oh yeah, and English is not my native tongue so apologies up front for any spelling/grammar fail.

This is my first mafia game ever and while I've been reading extensively through wiki articles and some of the games here these last couple of days I guess the only thing I can do right now is dive right in to develop some proper scumhunting skillz

<3 the flavor, btw

[sarcasm]It's

slightly

unpatriotic, but eh, gotta have something the next administration can blame on Obama Because God only knows he hasn't screwed anything else up[/sarcasm]

[Dekes]

I was just giving some general info.

I'd rather have all of you calling me Dekes, just so you know

[Dekes]

Ah, yes, the RVS...half the reason why signed up here

VOTE: Beanman because random.org told me to. And I'm a follower.

Fixed.

[Dekes]

EBWOP: Ah, I see. Fell for the newbie mistake. At least now I know how the vote tags work.

[Dekes]

@yabbaguy

To be honest, it was about 70% laziness and 30% because I thought it would be kind of fitting to use random.org to determine a random vote.
So why is your vote on tanstalas only semi-random? All I've seen from him so far since Day 1 is an RVS vote based on gender issues and an advertizing of an online game. Nothing that would strike me as suspicious. Care to elaborate?

[Dekes]

So why is your vote on tanstalas only semi-random? All I've seen from him so far since Day 1 is an RVS vote based on gender issues and an advertizing of an online game. Nothing that would strike me as suspicious.

Is this Scum trying to protect Scum?

This is actually town being curious. After reading tanstalas' posts so far you just got to be wondering why yabbaguy put a semi to his random vote (and he still hasn't given his reasoning on his vote so far). And this just might be a wee bit WIFOM-y, but a scum defednig his scumbuddy on a vote on the first day that has merely put him at L-3...even in a newbie game...I mean, c'mon, really?

And yes, I must say, I am a bit proud that my vote/reaction has moved us virtually out of the RVS

[Dekes]

I can understand ur curiousity, but why does it matter that it's only day 1? I see fallacy written all over this.

You see fallacy written all over this? That is your accusation? Wow, way to attack without a leg to stand on.

Of course it matters that it's Day 1 if a person places a seriousl vote on another person after two posts which had effectively no game content at all (there's no semi-random btw, you either vote randomly without any reasoning/joke reasoning or you vote a specific person based on actual reasoning) while the rest of us had just started RVS. I didn't even FoS or vote yabba because I really wanted to know why he called it semi-random and if there was some subtle clue he might have detected. But the fact that I've seen him twice online already without leaving a post here that could anwer some of the questions leaves me with no other choice but to

Unvote; Vote: yabbaguy

I want him to talk.

[Dekes]

Unvote
FoS: Dekes

Putting the second vote on the IC on Page 3? Not nice...

I'm really glad we have the IC and the SEs and I'm willing to learn if they point out any mistakes I make.

But in-game we are all equal and being an IC - while far more experienced than I am - does not exclude you from being mafia and in fact makes it even more dangerous.

[Dekes]

Mm, it was prior to D1, but remember him stating that RVS was going to get people talking? I wanted to check on what he meant by that, as I really have yet to see RVS actually produce a reaction. I'd argue that I started the game due to the fact that I questioned a stance.

Okay, I see now what happened here. I originally had overlooked #22 by tanstalas and thus I figured this part:

How do you suppose RVS is going to invoke reactions from people at this point in the game?

was meant to generally stimulate any kind of reaction/discussion. So I was wondering why you put the semi-random vote in front of it. But after reading tanstalas' last pre-Day 1 post I can see now what you were referring to. My bad.
Now that I have the info I was was looking for I can

Unvote

@Adrien C

I don't know if it's just me but I don't find an L-3 in a 9-player game that alarming at all. It's not even halfway to the lynch. Montgomery has practically been RVS'D to L-2 and no one's addressed it yet (until Beanman posted).
And by far not every vote is placed with the intention directed towards a lynch. It's one of the better possibilities especially early on in the game to provoke reactions/get answers. And like I said, I did get the information that I asked for/previously missed

@Beanman

The WIFOM-y part has nothing to do with the part you orignially pointed out. The WIFOM-y bit was me responding to the people who suggested that I might be buddying with tanstalas while your point (which led to the "Why does it matter it's Day 1?"-debate) was me wondering why someone would put a serious vote with no reasoning at all on page 2. But that has been pretty much cleared up now as far as I'm concerned.

And now I'm looking forward to seeing more from kyle99, montgomery and especially Makeorbreak.

[Dekes]

Oh shi-...a lot has been going on in the past 20 hours.

Okay, first off:

@Beanman

Yeah, I really have to start reading carefully. It's no use for a townie to get into trouble only because I skimmed some of the posts. On my second read of your post I see that you were referring to the scummbudying part as well. Of course (scum-)buddying is always a bad thing to do and will always look suspicious whether it's Day 1 or LyLo but what I meant was (and what I actually wrote) is that even newbie scum should realize that defending your buddy on page 2 with no danger of being about to get lynched will look awfully suspicious and they should know better than that.

Next up:

montgomery#104

On the contrary. I myself questioned yabba's motives on his very first Day 1-post. In the end, it was a misunderstanding on my part but nonetheless I have no problems with analyzing posts as early as possible.

Then I originally wanted to refrain from talking about the Makeorbreak incident because pretty much everything has been said about it. But anyways, here's my two cents. If you have stuff going on in your real life than by all means sort it out first. Mafiascum is after all just a game and should never interfere with the important stuff.
If that 's your game strategy, however - and this is what I'm leaning towards at the moment - , then good luck. All the things you've been doing so far (active lurking, OMGUS voting, AtE-ing, blatantly going off-topic) are as anti-town as you can get and you are bound to draw A LOT of suspicion on you. But I have to admit, town might be able to use some of the information that were produced while you were being attacked. Especially kyle's very un-SE-y post, which has been addressed multiple times already.
Oh, and montogomery's bit about your age differences is mighty interesting. What's that all about?

And another few couple of things. I didnt like tanstalas' #66 post. He did pretty much exactly the same I did to extract some information out of yabba with the exception that he took Adriens advice and FoS'd yabba instead of voting him. But that may very well be just town cautious and willing to learn.

And I'd like to hear more from Tuxhedoh. He suggested I might be scumbuddying after my second post, backpedaled later on when asked about it and then pretty much disappeared although a lot has been going on.

[Dekes]

And I'd like to hear more from Tuxhedoh. He suggested I might be scumbuddying after my second post, backpedaled later on when asked about it and then pretty much disappeared although a lot has been going on.

Of course you want to hear from me as I'm the only person that suspects you.

Not at all. I've been suspected by a few people, e.g. Adrien C and Beanman. And I'm not worried at all about it. In order to generate discussion you have to point fingers and act aggressively to force slip ups. And of course you will draw some suspicion on you while doing that. I'm fine with taking those hits for the team.

I hardly backpedaled. I'm a noob. I stated as much in my introductory post. I voted you because you felt that need to inform us all of your choice of using a randomizer to decide your vote during RVS. I thought that was an interseting bit of information to include while we essentially had no reason to suspect anything other than a random vote.

Your next response addressed yabba, but didn't question me at the time, you had an opportunity to question my vote, as well as add extra information, but you chose to validate tanstalas as town.

At this time you've done nothing to prove your not scum, or scumbuddying. my vote still stands.

I'm not questioning your vote on me. Only your next post and your lack of presence after that. What is your opinion on Makeorbreak and the kyle-wagon?

HOWEVER.... in theory, would it be poor form for me to jump the bandwagon and vote kyle?

This would be the hammmer so I would give kyle at least another chance to claim/defend himself before doing that.

PREVIEW EDIT: Okay, so he's back to L-2.


At this point I would be willing to help lynch Makeorbreak out of sheer incoherence on her part.
I personally never typoed a 7 instead of a 9 (and vice versa). But okay, can't really argue there if you claim it to be a typo.
Then you instantly L-1 kyle (miscount on your part?) without any reason whatsoever. How are we supposed to get any information that might clear you as town if you don't provide some reasoning regarding your behaviour?

PREVIEW EDIT:
Okay, your last two posts came out of nowhere. Because I was about to say something similar about kyle. Instead of defending himself he attacked the by far easiest target and only counterwagon to create some diversion. I am withholdding my vote for now but I'm willing to vote for him if he doesn't come up with a damn good explanation on the accusations towards him.

[Dekes]

As far as I see it, we have two possible lynchees right now. I'm fine with both lynches but I'd like to make a little pro-con list to make up my mind.

Makeorbreak lynch:
Pro:
- Getting rid of a completely erratic player
- Her flipping town might further cement suspicion on kyle
- Her flipping scum...well is always a good thing for town

Contra:
- Looking at the development of the wagon, this could be a completely town-driven lynch
- Not a lot of information to work with going into the next day

kyle99 lynch:
Pro:
- Getting rid of the imo shadiest person...hasn't contributed anything to schumhunting except defending himself by adding fuel/votes to the counterwagon
- There's a lot of analysis that can be done on the kyle wagon

Contra:
- uhm...prospect of a drama-free Day 2 surrounding MoB

Correct me if I'm totally off here with this list. For now I will go ahead and

Vote: kyle99

His last post still doesn't convince me. His strange excuse of his own lurking is not a good enough defense for me. And looking back on his posts I see him active lurking for the longest time, then, after being called out, making a horrible post where he's just parroting other users and then making a vote immediately after fence-sitting on that person (yes, I'm aware that I'm just stating now what other people have said before, but this is just a summary to explain my vote) and after that he disappears again - until he's put to L-1 when - boom - he's there not 30 mins later to attack this vote. This leads me to believe that he might have been lurking on purpose all along.

Oh yeah, this is

L-1

people. I know it's still early in the game and I still want him to claim before someone hammers. But I feel it's necessary to keep the pressure high on him.

[Dekes]

Damn, you definitely can't say this is a slow game. Okay, I'll start with this quote and go on from there:

If kyle is town, there is a strong case against Adrien/MoB scumbuddy pair. If Mob flips scum, there is a strong case of Adrien/Mob scumbuddy pair. If MoB is lynched town, I see no loss there. If kyle flips mafia, well, we killed a mafia, but then, finding Kyle's partner will be extremely hard at this point. Hmmmm....

You've posted some well-crafted posts later on where I can agree with most of the points but this right here is where I disagree with you.

If we are to assume the worse case - that we mislynch today - I just believe that a kyle mislynch will be much more profitable to town than a Mob mislynch.
You say that if Mob flips town there's no loss there. I beg to differ, I think it's pretty much a completely wasted mislynch for town. Who would you go for the next day? Would you go back to kyle? And then who else? Your Adrien/Mob scum team is out of the question then. Do you honestly believe in a kyle/Adrien scum team? Yeah, didn't think so. Either kyle or Adrien & montgomery? Maybe. But I can see the Mob lynch as being annoyed town wanting to get rid of their most annoying player. I just don't see enough information to work with the next day if she flips town.
Additionally, I don't see Mob as much of a threat. It's not like she could lead town to a lynch on her own. And If she keeps on behaving scummy/anti-town on Day 2 we can still lynch her tomorrow.

On the other hand, if kyle flips town there's so much more info you can extract out of the wagon. You can look at yabba's posts when he started the wagon and how he handled the situation afterwards. You can ISO the hell out of Adrien, there's a lot of intriguing stuff. And I'm curious whether Adrien would really be pushing for a Mob lynch tomorrow. It is kind of strange how he emphasizes in like every post that Mob is #2 on his list. But for now he's not on my scumdar.
You can even investigate me seeing as how pushy I am towards a kyle lynch. And then there's how tanstalas, Tuxhedoh and montgomery have handled the kyle wagon differently so far.

With that being said, I'm keeping my vote on kyle. Just because other people have tried to clear his name/explain his behaviour directing town towards a Mob lynch doesn't make his posts less scummy in my opinion.

[Dekes]

The problem is with that situation you brought up is your assuming that both me and MoB would be mislynches. Assuming that a lynch could be a mislynch and wondering which mislynch would be less worse is bad and anti-town. Vote on who's scum and nothing else.

Dude, I don't even know if I should call this intentional misinterpretation on your part
Nowhere did I say that I think both of you are mislynches. I - very clearly - stated what would (or rather could) happen when one of you flips town. I don't KNOW if either one of you is one or the other because while we can debate/speculate/argue as long as we want but just like Beanman said a couple of posts ago we can only be certain after the hammer as fallen and the victim either has claimed afterwards or the flavor has been revealed. And to say wondering if a lynch is a mislynch is anti-town is total bull. Everybody should be wondering (and a lot of people have done so in this thread) what happens if your lynch doesn't flip scum. It makes you think twice whther to vote/hammer and it gives you a lot to work with the next day to determine what went wrong and who acted suspiciously.
And your second part is also wrong. I - again very clealry - stated that I'm not unvoting you because I think you're the better mislynch but rather because you haven't done anything to prove me your innocence.

I may try to give an ISO on kyle....but not right now. There's other things to address right now.

You seem to have all the answers figured out. Well once again I've caught you in a fallacy. As to your question, you thought wrong... Last game I was in, scum team was the IC and SE. They basically starting day 2, started building these really strong cases against each other. Day 3 one of them got lynched, but because they were targeting each other, no one thought, "they could be scum partners." And scum ended up winning. Smart players use these tactics, because people like you naively assume they just won't for some reason.

Am I saying Kyle and Adrien are scum buddies? No, as I have stated I do not know who scum is, it is however my goal to find out.

Why put off tommorrow what you can do today, and that's scumhunt. I can't wait to hear your case on kyle, because I bet I have a much more evidence on you, than you do on him... But I'm gonna let you present your case on kyle, before I present my case on you.

No, I do not think I have it all figured out. I try to be as successful in scumhunting just like you do. And I may and will be wrong (probably more often than not in my first game) at one time or the other . But what good would it do if I was always like "They maybe scum, maybe not", "This might have been rather suspicious", etc. I'm just posting what reflects my current opinions. I don't wanna say every other sentence "I can't guarantee it, but this is how I see it". After all this is a game based on opinions and you shouldn't say so all the time.
You're pretty quick when it comes to catching fallacies. Let me explain especially the part that you bolded. I can't guarantee it, but this is how I see it. If kyle flips scum I really believe Adrien is town. Yes, I'm aware that mafia's most powerful weapon is deceit. And I know, that bussing is one of the most common things for mafia to do. But if we apply this scenario here what do we have:
It starts off with #57 by yabba where he - in my opionion - gives a valid vote on kyle as a (somewhat) friendly reminder to start posting content. Then after the first Mob fiasco ensues you vote for kyle and then Adrien goes all out on kyle and never backs down especially after I put him at L-1. He could've done something like you did and point out the shrapnels of content kyle posted and unvote without looking too suspicious. But he practically begged people to hammer on kyle. And I really don't know if scum would be willing to sacrifice (after seven pages, no less) their partner when there's absolutely no need to. If they do end up as scum team, that was one hell of a gutsy move and I will tip my hat to Adrien (given they win this thing of course). But as of right now until no new information arises I stand by my point.

Oh yeah, and I don't like how you throw suspicion towards anybody on the kyle wagon. I do believe you're town at the moment and we're all here trying to scumhunt as best as we can. But you're acting like everybody on the kyle wagon is scummy and voting not out of valid reasons but rather only for the sake of there being a wagon while all the time kyle is super obvious town to you. I just don't see it yet. Like I said I try to present a case on kyle tomorrow (maybe even tonight, but don't count on it).

[Dekes]

EBWOP:
I wanted to add I believe there was no way Adrien could've known no one would hammer kyle with all the suspicion on kyle at that time.

[Dekes]

Sorry for the triple post.

I am going to post just one of kyles many many posts since yabba first posted that, only a mere 3 RL days ago...

The problem is with that situation you brought up is your assuming that both me and MoB would be mislynches. Assuming that a lynch could be a mislynch and wondering which mislynch would be less worse is bad and anti-town. Vote on who's scum and nothing else.

This is proof that he has added content. I plan on using it in my case against Dekes. I literally just grabbed his last post too. He's not active lurking anymore. It's time to move on...

I don't see this as proof as stated in my previous post but generally, yes, Kyle has started posting content. But what were his other options? Keep on active lurking? Full blown AtE? Give up? I'm pretty sure all of those things would've gotten him hammered very quickly. So he better damn well had to be starting to post some content. Does not clear him in my book. But more on that in my case.

[Dekes]

When was I active lurking? Show me evidence of this please, because I can't recall me ever active lurking.

Sure.

#32 - RVS vote, pretty standard

Discussion ensues, game is slowly drifting out of RVS.

#49 - "From now on, I am going to call you Tan." Thanks for the info.

Stuff happens, no longer RVS. Yabba calls you out (and votes) for active lurking. No sign from you.

#95 - Adrien C tells kyle to post more. Very next post:

#96 - "Oh shi-, poeple are getting suspicious of me, time to get active. But first I tell peolpe I simply forgot about this thread" Problem with this post is it is a nulltell because we can't prove whether you really did forgot about the game or not. It's an easy enough excuse but you might very well be telling the truth.

#97 - "Mh, let's see if I can find a bit of info that has been brought up by others but did go unnoticed and pass it off as my own." Then you went ahead and voted Mob based on pretty obvious fencesitting:

"Not really liking her play, but that could be just her taking stuff to personal.

VOTE: Makeorbreak"

Then again silence. People get even more suspicious and start piling votes on you until Mob puts you on L-1. Not thirty minutes later:

#118 - "Damn, L-1 already. Time to get active again. Let's see. Ah, great, I just attack Mob for voting me without any reason. Good thing she's playing very poorly and has already a couple of votes on her. Maybe I can drive town towards her lynch instead."

I admit, it gets better from there. But with the constant imminent danger of being hammered you had no other choice but to post more content. I know that you not posting for a while could just be you being busy IRL. You aren't supposed to be on all the time. No one seriously should be. But with all the timing of your posts it just seems to me that you can be on/active/needed when you need to be and you just chose not to be active when you didn't have to. Sorry, but that's how you come off to me.

[Dekes]

@ dekes. Your so convinced Adrien wants kyle dead that badly. I specifically asked adrien if I should hammer on post 186. Didn't get a response. Guess he didn't want that hammer to happen that badly after all. Well, let's put your read on him to the test shall we? Let's give him the option. I am doing this, because I believe my read on Adrien, is stronger than your read on Adrien. I also like living a little dangerously. I think kyle is town. Good luck kyle. God speed.

unvote;vote kyle99

So you were jeopardizing your #1 town pick to prove your theory. Yeah, that sounds sensible and really pro-town.
I don't see how Adrien could've hammered after that post. If Adrien's scum, he of course would've had a hard time to hammer his partner. But if kyle were to flip town Adrien would've dug himself a giant hole. He would've been on everybody's scum list, mine included (no fallacy there: I said if kyle flips scum I don't see how Adrien can be scum, too. However, if kyle flips town you have to question Adrien on his behavior).
And if Adrien is town of course you can argue he should hammer his #1 scum candidate. But again, after your post (and a couple of Adrien's posts), if kyle were to flip town Adrien would have a hard time to convince everyone else he's not scum the following day.

Oh, and if I take firm stances as to who I think is the scum team and who's not then it's me having it all figured out, being naive and creating fallacies all over the place. But if you blatantly declare me and Adrien as the scum team only to say in your next post Mob is obiously scum it's all perfectly fine and logical, I guess. Mh...


@Mob
Seriously? What did you think this was gonna be like? Did you read any other mafia threads beforehand? You have to invest time into this thing, you have to contribute and bring in your own ideas. Oherwise you're not helping this game at all. If you're not able to do this than it would be better for everyone's sake to ask for a replacement. The other possibility is that that's your game plan and then you have to go. Call me opportunistic, call me bandwagon hopper, but I was told to vote for who I think is scum and unlike others I'm planning to do that.

Unvote; Vote: Makeorbreak

[Dekes]

Actually,

Unvote

Don't want someone to hammer before she has the chance to replace out. Also don't want the day to end before yabba had the chance to post.

[Dekes]

I agree with your here tan...but it seems waiting for content from MoB may be wasting "valuable scumhunting time". How long do we have to wait for a replacement?

5. I expect consistent, regular, involved, active, and [anything else that goes along those lines] from each and every one of you. Prods(PM's that tell you to "Get playing again!") will be sent out after 72 hours of no posting. However, I expect more participation than the bare minimum, and so do your fellow players. I start seeking a replacement 24 hours after the prod is sent, and I implement the replacee at prod+48 hours. All in all, that's a full work-week one person not posting. Don't flake.

Hope it's okay to quote the mod here. Since Mob posted yesterday it's gonna be a while until she gets mod-replaced. But i'm pretty sure her asking for a replacement will be effective immediately.

@kyle
See, this is a great valuable convincing post. Though I have to say, ISOing Mob is not terribly difficult. I may look into the second half of your posts (if you wanna do an ISO on yourself, I wouldn't mind) because there were quite some things I didn't like. But this might have been just me tunneling you at the time resulting in a somewhat biased perspective on your posting style. Does this mean that you are free of any suspicion? No, but for now there's nothing that would warrant a vote from me.

Anyways, I feel like I'm being manipulated here. But eh, I think that's what mafia'll do to ya. Paranoia at its finest.

Backing off for now, waiting for other people to state their opinions (montgomery, Makeorbreak(!!!)). Still eagerly awaitng yabba's (already drafted?) post. It seems like he's been throwing in only some breadcumbs and questions for a while now. But maybe he's just busy with his own modded game right now. And even more eagerly awaiting Mob's next post (final stand?).

[Dekes]

Hey guys,
sorry, time is getting short these days for me as I'm gonna move downtown on Sunday. So I will be limited to the evening hours only for the next couple of days.
Anyways, on to the last posts. And what a great turn of events with Mob being modkilled so quickly after all. I much rather have nine active players in the game.

Okay, noticed the following things:
I don't like Beanman jumping everyone who's attacking/voting kyle. This is almost borderline buddying now. I know he's been the center of discussion but even when you aren't being addressed you comment on everything kyle-related. You yourself said he stopped active lurking a long ass time ago. So why not let kyle speak fpr himself when being addressed. And he did an okay job at doing so as of late. I still see you as town at the mom, but this just doesn't sit right with me. IGMEOY.

I do like pacman's first two posts. He's given town what town asked for. But if there's one advantage in replacing Mob then it's that you can gain a lot of credibility and esteem by one sensible post after all the crap Mob has given us. Hope, he can find easily into the discussion.

I don't like Adrien's eagerness to hammer somebody. I've yet to see him hammer when really given the opportunity. He says he wants to give kyle the chance to defend himself before hammering but he doesn't seem to be willing to give Mob the same chance. But eh, different circumstances, I guess.

I'm undecided about yabba at the moment. He did some things that I found to be very awkward, but nothing that I can really put a finger on. I'll look into his posts again. Maybe stuff I've yet to learn in this game.

I DO NOT LIKE how montgomory has been staying under the radar for a while now. She's not been adding anything useful and her last couple of votes have been only revolving about Mob being a troll. She's yet to address anything else in this game and it's not like nothing else has happened so far. She announced a detailed post in a couple hours in her last post and that was 20 hours ago. I expect a valuable next post, but she already deserves a

Vote: montgomery

for her post content so far.

[Dekes]

Just to make that clear, that was an outright scummy player-by-player from pacman.

How so? Mind giving us a PBPA on pacman's PBPA?

[Dekes]

Okay, I can see where you getting at. It's pretty much IoA on almost every player and not a single clear stance. True, not a good PBPA at all.

Pacman, mind trying for that long ass post again that you accidentally deleted?

[Dekes]

[Montgomery] announced a detailed post in a couple hours in her last post and that was

45

hours ago.

Fixed.

[Dekes]

I don't like Adrien's eagerness to hammer somebody. I've yet to see him hammer when really given the opportunity.

He says he wants to give kyle the chance to defend himself before hammering but he doesn't seem to be willing to give Mob the same chance. But eh, different circumstances, I guess.

Can you explain that contradiction there? I'm not sure I'm understanding what you are trying to say.

Sure can. The first part is regarding your talking so far. And the second part is about your actions.
All throughout last Tuesday after you voted for kyle you were urging people to hammer. But when given the chance to hammer yourself you hesitated and waited until the kyle-wagon broke off. Then again with Mob in your Iso #51. You urged people to get her to L-1 so that you can hammer. Of course nobody followed your plea but I would've liked to see how it would've played out. Either you were all talk again or you would've hammered because you knew she would flip town (because you are scum in that case).
Also I love this tiny piece of info:

As for the people who are now pointing at me for not hammering Kyle: I like to give a person a chance to defend themselves before I drop a hammer[...]

I doubt MoB will be replaced[...]
You guys get her to L-1, I'll hammer.

Don't you give her the chance to defend herself like you did with kyle? Btw, those posts were mere 2 minutes apart.

@Beanman

Why put off tommorrow what you can do today, and that's scumhunt. I can't wait to hear your case on kyle, because I bet I have a much more evidence on you, than you do on him... But I'm gonna let you present your case on kyle, before I present my case on you.

About Tuxhedo, I have a complete opposite on him. I lean towards scummy. He has NOT posted enough content in that he states he has a case on Dekes, and states he's going to purposefully with hold that information until day two. I see no purpose for town to state they have a case and then state they're not sharing with the class.

(And that's only one out of a couple of times were you said that)

Contradicting much?
In case you're waiting on my case for kyle. I already did an Iso on half of kyle's posts and Adrien presented a full Iso of kyle. I don't agree with all of the points in his Iso (but an Iso is mostly done to build on case on somebody and so it has to be somewhat biased).

@yabba
It has been a lazy weekend overall for this thread. But I agree with Adrien here, it's not too late to give it to us.

[Montgomery] announced a detailed post in a couple hours in her last post and that was

68

hours ago.

Updated. Anal mod is anal

[Dekes]

@dekes,

No. Nothing I've done is contradictory. Simply reading my posts, proves this. Please stop baseless accusations, and taking things out of context, doing so, is nothing but scummy behaviours. I've proven my case against you, already. I've explained everything, very thoughouly. My case against you, is extremely strong.

Wrong. And you're very generous with the word scummy, my friend. I think your scumhunting in almost every direction has made you stumble quite some times. I can't even keep track on all your obvious scum teams anymore.

Okay, here's why you're wrong:

In your Iso #22 you lecture me how two scum partners can even go to extreme measures of bussing to distance themselves from each other. Then you go on and attack me because I was taking a firm stance on who I thought the scum teams were (our couldn't be) and you state that you don't know who the scum teams are but it's your to goal find out. Yet you continously state scum (teams) as if they were fact. Seems a bit hypocritical to attack me for things you yourself do multiple times.

Ending this post you say:

I can't wait to hear your case on kyle, because I bet I have a much more evidence on you, than you do on him... But I'm gonna let you present your case on kyle, before I present my case on you.

Fair enough.

In your next Iso (#23) you're starting to attack Tux for not posting a case on me right that moment.

After that I reply to every single point of your #22 and give (half) an Iso of kyle. And all you can come up with is your little setup for Adrien to prove me he won't hammer (which - not surprisingly at all - worked). But that is not having an extremely strong case on me.

In Iso #44 and #45 you again attack Tux for not posting his case on me with a big fat contradiction right in the middle:

Tux-I never accused you of waiting till day 2, I quoted you that you were waiting till day 2.

About Tuxhedo, I have a complete opposite on him. I lean towards scummy. He has NOT posted enough content in that he states he has a case on Dekes, and states he's going to purposefully with hold that information until day two. I see no purpose for town to state they have a case and then state they're not sharing with the class

Then [Tuxedo] goes on to say he has a case against Dekes, and is purposefully witholding that information. I see no reason in witholding information that could benefit town.

Either I'm paranoid as a motherf*cker or this post is damn shady as hell....

If those aren't accusations I don't know what is.

And that's it. In your next Iso #46 you say you have an extremely strong case on me. So where is it? Because you sure as hell haven't posted it. And unless you do so it is utterly hypocritical of you to attack Tux for waiting with his case.

And this right here is without a doubt the best part of your posts so far:

I'm leaning closer to you, with that last post, and completely on you, if tux provides even the slightest case against you, before this day 1 ends.

So, if Tux were to be scum, you would totally back off of him if he handed in a case against me - no matter how weak and illogical it would be? I'm sure scum will thank you for this statement now that they know how easy it is to convince you of their innocence.

HoS: Beanman

@Adrien
Yeah, I can see how those two are different (and I stated as much earlier). Still it seems a bit off how you handled the whole kyle-hammering situation. I will look into it again if it comes up again.

@mod: Can you check kyle for a prod. I'm pretty sure he's due once you're awake.

[Dekes]

Be aware, this might be my longest post yet. An you can blame it entirely on Beanman's poorly constructed case (and don't even mention the content of it). Really, you should've added quotes and/or Iso's next to every point. Otherwise, you either force people to look up every point themselves (and it's more time consuming than one might think) or have them take all your points for granted. I'm leaning towards that you deliberately constructed it so it would be hard for people to check on your "case". But don't worry, I'll add in quotes and/or Iso's within my answers.

And dammit, tanstalas, for your #356. There are several things I was going to add into my post as well. Now it will be me parroting and buddying and whatnot all over again.

Okay, onto your so-called case, Beanman:

Alright Im going to try and provide every single piece of evidence I have on dekes. There is alot, so Im probably missing some, sadly. This is only partial ISO but the numbers are just repesenting order things have taken place.

1.---First, his RVS. He used random.org. This is worse than bad, because as somewhat pointless as pointing views on someone you random vote, at least they are your own opinions.

How are these two scenarios any different:
Scenario A: Player A: "I used to a randomizer. Vote: Player C!" Player B:"You used a randomizer? Why!? Defend yourself!"
Scenario B: Player A:"I don't like your ava. Vote: Player C!" Player B:"That ava is awesome! Why do you hate it!? Defend yourself!"
In my eyes both scenarios are equally pointless and generate the same amount of discussion. Also I'd like to point out that this was my very first in-game mafia post ever. I tried to be witty. And you include this in your case to peg me as scum? Ridicolous.

2.---He then goes on to state, scum would never protect scum early on in day one, and then voted yabba. look who the other person I think is mafia... distancing much?

Wrong. This is what I wrote:

And this just might be a wee bit WIFOM-y, but a scum defednig his scumbuddy on a vote on the first day that has merely put him at L-3...even in a newbie game...I mean, c'mon, really?

I stated it was WIFOM-y and i never said that this would never happen. I just thought it to be unlikely in this case.
And I voted yabba because he didn't give me the answer I was looking for. It turned out to be a miscommunication. But I knew you would include this in your case. Because miscommunications only happens with scum involved, right?

3.---Is suspicious of me and Adrien.

Utterly wrong. In #65 I answered questions that you asked me. I never suspected one of you. Look it up. This is a very bad point actually.

4.---He then puts kyle at L-1 forcing a claim so extremely early in D1 it's not even funny. States pro's/con's on kyle and mob. States Mob's a "completely-town driven lynch."(three people on wagon are me, kyle and Montgomery) Why the heck would you say you think everyone driving a lynch is town, and then vote for one of the people driving the lynch?!?!?!?

#163
Yes, because of how the wagon developed and the reactions of everyone regarding Mob it was clear at that moment that everybody was suspicious of/uncomfortable with Mob's play style. Of course scum could've slipped in a vote or two but it didn't need one or two vocal persons to lead this wagon to a lynch. Everybody was annoyed by Mob and so it could've been a lynch forced by the whole town.

----vote on kyle is completely opposite to the post just before, read #3. But then just completely pilfers Adriens reasons for voting kyle. This isn't only opportunistic, but it's contradictory behaviors.

Heavily distorted. First part is wrong. And then I go on and openly admit that people before me have stated those reasons (still #163) and add in extra info:

His last post still doesn't convince me. His strange excuse of his own lurking is not a good enough defense for me. And looking back on his posts I see him active lurking for the longest time, then, after being called out, making a horrible post where he's just parroting other users and then making a vote immediately after fence-sitting on that person (yes, I'm aware that I'm just stating now what other people have said before, but this is just a summary to explain my vote) and after that he disappears again - until he's put to L-1 when - boom - he's there not 30 mins later to attack this vote. This leads me to believe that he might have been lurking on purpose all along.

What else is there to add if obvious and convincing arguments against a player have been already stated?

----He states kyle is being very "un-SE-ly" what does that even mean? How is an SE supposed to be exactly? SE's are now supposed to have a certain playstyle? *Possibly WIFOM-SE means 2 games played. Thats really not alot of experience, especially if they get killed off day 1 like the way this game was going to do to him.* He states he doesn't want quickhammer but doesn't change his vote.

This is actually #110. Way to confuse town by hopping around like that. Kyle had posted five times. I already Iso'd those posts in #224. But he had been playing bad up until that point (and even further). He allegedly had forgotten about the game and had added no content but a wishy-washy vote on Mob. Sorry, I expect more from an SE.

As an SE he doesn't get to play the same card Makeorbreak pulled and just

And obviously you see a difference between SE's and newbies, too. Huh, how about that?
And yes, I wanted the pressure maximized so I put him to L-1 because of his play style so far. I wanted him to start posting sensible stuff. And he played better afterwards. Don't see anything wrong with that.

5.---States he's suspicious of kyle because of Lurking.

Back to #163
Misquoted. I was suspicious of his excuse for his lurking (and yes, he was lurking. It doesn't matter if it was intentional or not. If you don't post for two days then it's lurking). And I followed it up with a reasoning for that.

6.---He is continueingly going on about how eager Adrien is to hammer kyle(at this time, Adrien isn't even on kyle's wagon), I completely prove Adrien isn't eager to just kill kyle, by providing Adrien the opportunity to hammer, and he didn't take it.

Wrong. I mention Adrien's eagerness first in....#302. And then I mention it twice afterwards because Adrien asked me about it. Not really what I would call continueingly(?).
And I already explained the Adrien-can't-hammer-kyle situation in #245. And it's still extremely anti-town to put your #1 town pick on the line just to prove a point.

7.---I accuse being opportunistic and possible scum team between him and Adrien.

Correct. You said that. Sadly that doesn't make the content any truer.

8.---He then goes on to confirm his vote on kyle was completely driven by Adrien and yabba, even though he's stated openly how suspicious he is of Adrien all game.(which is going back to agree with point 3, but is contradictory to point 4.)

Wrong and misquoted. I said in #219 that yabba "- in my opionion - gives a valid vote on kyle as a (somewhat) friendly reminder to start posting content". And you turn this into "completely driven". Yeah, Adrien was the most vocal player during the kyle-wagon. I state later on in #245 that "[...]if kyle flips town you have to question Adrien on his behavior". But I never said anywhere I've been suspicious of Adrien all game. On the contrary, I even state several times that Adrien's not on my scumdar. Totally far-fetched and completely wrong.

9.---He then states his suspicion on original Adriens eagerness to kyle, was because of misinterpretation on Adriens part because of how quickly things were going on his kill.

Non-existant. Please show me where I said that.

10.---admits kyle has been posting more content, taking his case away from point 5. (still doesn't unvote)

Taken out of context.

but generally, yes, Kyle has started posting content. But what were his other options? Keep on active lurking? Full blown AtE? Give up? I'm pretty sure all of those things would've gotten him hammered very quickly. So he better damn well had to be starting to post some content. Does not clear him in my book.

I provide reasoning for keeping my vote on him.

11.---states again kyle has been posting more content, taking further his case away from point 5. (still doesn't unvote)

Taken out of context.

I admit, it gets better from there. But with the constant imminent danger of being hammered you had no other choice but to post more content. I know that you not posting for a while could just be you being busy IRL. You aren't supposed to be on all the time. No one seriously should be. But with all the timing of your posts it just seems to me that you can be on/active/needed when you need to be and you just chose not to be active when you didn't have to. Sorry, but that's how you come off to me.

I provide reasoning for keeping my vote on him.

12.---finally unvotes kyle, when the BW is dead, and
---Votes MoB but quickly undoes it, before she can claim, worried about a quick hammer. Different behavior from when he L-1'd kyle. see subject 4

Different situation. Mob's latest post was "Hi, I'm back." I don't wanna get somebody hanged after that post when there's a high possibility of her getting replaced. This was not the case when I put kyle at L-1. Of course you have to deal with these situations differently if the circumstances are so different.

13.---continues to go on about Adrien over eagerness to hammer kyle, even though he was proven wrong on 6, and states his suspicion was wrong on 9. States he has a town read on me.

Void point. This is the first time I mention Adrien's eagerness so it doesn't relate to points 6 and 9, respectively.
Correction: I said:

I still see you as town at the mom, but this just doesn't sit right with me. IGMEOY.

Major difference.

14.---I reiterate and state I still find him suspicious and am all but confirming him as mafia in my eyes.

15.---He turns completely around and HoS's me, going back through the thread to quickly patch together what I find as a not very strong case against me, which is very different then post 13 in which he states he has a town read on me. I take this as very OMGUS'esque, considering 14.

Heavily distorted. I wasn't trying to build a case. You stated something that was wrong and I explained why. "Quickly patched together"? Lol, you might wanna look at your mess of a case. And yes, my view on you has changed. It usually happens during mafia. I'm sorry I didn't have the top suspect on page one already like you d....wait a second, aren't you the guy who voted like 8 times and has thrown suspicions in every direction while carefully watching you don't put somebody at L-1 or even L-2?

Seriously, I don't know what you're trying to accomplish with this so-called case. Did you try to make it as long and confusing as possible so that people would think "Darn, that's so complex, it must be right!"? (Yes, I understand, my post is obviously way longer but I had to clear everything up). Have you tunneled me so much that you can't differentiate logical from scummy? Or are you just wanna confuse town with you half-ass cases against everyone (Tux, kyle, Mob, yabba, tanstalas, me)?
Because that doesn't help very much. Town has to concentrate on too many things in too little time. You know what usually helps? Wagons. Unlike a heated argument between only two people you can usually see everyone's (lack of) reaction to a wagon (including the person being wagoned of course) and you have something to analyze. With that being said and how you've behaved lately, I will

Unvote; Vote: Beanman

(This is my vote! For my own reasons! I stated them right above! But I think everybody will be able to see that as a legitimate independent vote but you, Beanman (inb4 Beanman: "Why do you have to emphasize this so much, huh?" Exactly to prevent this nonsene accusations of OMGSUSing and buddying))

[Dekes]

I know it looks annoying now, but it's better than having a case with no indicators of when and where something has been posted. It just makes it too easy to slip in false info.

[Dekes]

@Beanman
Gloating doesn't become you, mate. So, can we finally expect some shred of proof in the future?
And I'm intrigued: When did you super-elobarate plan take off? Before or after your weak cases against Tux, yabba, etc.?

[Dekes]

Played perfectly. Lazy opportunistic scum to a T. I proved my case with factual evidence on the both of them, now I would like to prove my case with hard undeniable evidence, that these two are mafia. I am so freaking sure these two are mafia, with their really badly "ZOMG YOU PARAPHRASED ME BEANMAN!!!! YOU HAVE TO USE THE SAME WORDS I DID OR YOU MISQUOTED ME!!!!!" and they're "why I am so lazy that I poorly explained myself, oh but here, i was being sarcastic... HOW COULD YOU NOT SEE THAT!!!"

I just wanted to address this part. The second part is just plain ludacris and Beanman is getting more and more megalomanic and thinks he can win this thing on his own.
I never said you have to quote me. I said an Iso would suffice just so that people could see what you were referring to. Again you're making facts out of absolutely nothing. And this time in caps lock, too. Very convincing.
As for me being lazy and opportunistic: Yep, that's why it took me 90 minutes to work on a reply for your so-called "not-the-real-thing-it's-just-a-trap-case". And that's why I backed up every single of my votes with solid and subjective reasoning.

I'm really looking forward to your real case.

[Dekes]

EBWOP: And now you're manipulating town into thinking that if you flip scum, tanstalas and I HAVE to be scum. Very townish I must say.

[Dekes]

EBWOP2: "if you flip town"

[Dekes]

Lol dekes, yes, try to get more people on my wagon... Further your doom....

Again you're putting words into my mouth.

And so, it's no rocksolid, undeniable proof-consisting case after all? Huh?
I'm now leaning towards stubborn, egomaniacal town. Which is not good or helpful either.

Unvote

Now can we wait for other people to talk/get replaced?

[Dekes]

*sigh* This was me telling we where you were wrong. Outright wrong just to strenghten your case against me. Telling people are wrong =/= telling people are suspicious. I was merely showing town that the intentions of my actions have always been genuine and backed up by my own reasoning.

Preview Edit:
No OMGSUS is simply voting because somebody voted for you. Look it up. I backed up my post with a lot of post that you don't seem to find reply-worthy at all. And I concluded with the vote that wasn't reasoned on OMGSUS. Look it up, it's right on the last page.

[Dekes]

EBWOP: Missing a comma. "No, OMGSUS[...]"

[Dekes]

You backed up your post with a lot of fluff that read to me as OMGUS. Either way, my case on you has proven to be quite legitimate, as NO ONE, but your BW buddy, has a pro-town read on you...

Great stuff. I pointed out all your fluff in your case. Please show me mine.

I think Adrien's right.

[Dekes]

why? my case was successful? Your suspicious in everyones eyes...

Nice job avoiding to post that real case you promised multiple times. But fine, like I said, I think this is just town vs. town + a lot of paranoia.

And if somebody is suspicious of me based on your case, I want them to look into my reply-post and tell me, which parts they want to have further explained by me or you.

[Dekes]

um, my post was my real case. Just because you believe you don't think it is, doesn't mean it isn't.

Then it was a bad and poorly constructed one and I'm afraid you'll have to look into my long-ass post again. Because I answered to every point and just because you dismiss everything as fluff doesn't make them less valid points.
Usually you have to prove me guilty and not the other way around because everything I will state below you can just counter with "That's not pro-town! You can just be scum pretending to act pro-town!), but nonetheless here are some points I see as me being pro-town:
- I asked yabba about his initial semi-random vote to get some information
- I questioned Tux about the kyle and Mob situation when he weren't participating
- I kept the pressure on kyle to make him contribute more
- I tried to make out several connections about who might be scum/town in case kyle or Mob flip scum/town
- I made an Iso of kyle to clarify how his actions were poor/scummy on the first couple of days
- I questioned you on your little charade when you put kyle at L-1
- I was the first to point out that montgomery not only posted rarely but also that her posts were revolving around one topic and one topic only
And shortly after that the mess between us began. I just skimmed my Iso so I might very well missed a lot. There.

[Dekes]

Okay, fair enough.
Yes, I see the similarities. One would have to be blind not to see similar patterns. Early on I called tanstalas out on this (#110). Yes, one might argue now that this was a (somewhat) subtle hint of scum telling the other scum to stop doing that. And one might even continue to argue that I didn't do it again to not come off as suspicious. And then one might say "But Dekes, if you see this happen again, why don't you call him out again as that might look scummy on both of you? Now you just seem like you are distancing yourself from him." I can see all of that.
But honestly, I skimmed tanstalas' posts for the longest time because I was so into tunneling on kyle, Mob and then you. I liked that someone agreed with me and had the same suspects as I did but I didn't look further into his posts. I actually wanted to address this again in my long ass post, but when I clicked on preview edit I saw that he had posted again and I addressed that instead. I was contemplating not voting for you after reading tanstalas' had voted for you but then I thought it was time for another wagon to get some information out of you. Plus, I was a little pissed because that post took me so goddamn long (hence the overreaction in paranthesis). But I think I have calmed down a bit now.
About what I think about him. I really have to look into his posts again but if he were scum, I simply couldn't picture anyone as his partner right now. So it would have to be a town-read from me for now.

[Dekes]

Okay, done re-reading the thread while concentrating on tanstalas' posts.
Conclusion: Unsure...while the timing of his votes is really conspicious (especially his #26 where he openly admits to vote montgomery simply because she's inactive) and some of his posts are anti-townish like his casual remark in his #24 where he states that Mob being modkilled would be "one less player to worry about". But usually his votes are backed up by reasoning and he his ready to defend his votes rather well. He could be more offensive though and question other people about their votes/motives.
Definitely not as townish a read as in my last post anymore. Could use some pressure to get more information out of him (so does Tux imo).

I know this can again be interpreted as me deflecting from myself and distancing from/giving up on my scumbuddy. But Beanman asked me what I think about tanstalas and this is where I'm at at the moment.

Quick question@Beanman: Did you make up that case on yabba to see if either me or tanstalas would follow your vote? Simple yes or no suffices. If so, it at least explains your actions on the last couple of days.


And now, I will really wait for the replacements to talk. After all they're replacing rather scummy people and I'm curious about what they have to say about their predecessors and the game content overall so far.

[Dekes]

After all the redundant statistics mumbo-jumbo I think this was the only point that was brought up against me:

I - very clearly - stated what would (or rather could) happen when one of you flips town

WHAT?! Please tell me you guys went after this. The use of the future, even with the conditional in parenthesis, is a scum slip. As a side-note, Dekes seems to love navel gazing.

If you look at the post that this my statement is referring to it's pretty obvious that I'm only talking in the realms of subjunctive. If it's the "when" you're worried about. "When" and "if" translate into the same word in German. I usually get it right, sometimes I don't. Wasn't the first mistake by me, surely won't be the last.
I hope if you bring this point up you'll look into the following part by Beanman's latest post:

I will know w/o a question of a doubt if yabba is scum on day 2.you

It's worse because it's deliberate. The only case that this statement can be true is if Beanman is yabba's scumpartner or yabba gets killed/lynched before Day 2.
About the naval gazing: Noted and noticed. Will try to cut back on it.

@Adrien
Explain, why I have been wishy-washy.

And for the love of God, Tuxhedo, would you please start participating again. You've been marching in here once a day for the last couple of days only to say it's all too much for you. You don't have to make a detailed analysis on every player, just pick your points and share your opinions.

Guess, McG is still in the reading process. Hope to hear his thoughts soon.

[Dekes]

Yet you can't spell Deutschmann...funny.
Like I said, check the other post. And while you're at it you should notice while ISO-ing me that I use paranthesis a lot for additional information. Your point seems far-fetched and pretty common to see those kind of things in newbie games, regardless of alignment (though I don't have proof for that, pardon me).
Hope your case builds on more than those things.

[Dekes]

You add could as an afterthought while your immediate intention betrays would. As in the two of them WILL show up as town because you already know it.

You ignored my bigger point, the one I said right before my vote and the one I will be extrapolating on.

I added "could" as a correction. Period.

And I ignored your other point because I didn't get what you meant to say with it. If you were referring to my vote on Beanman and me stating wagons are a good thing to apply pressure. I've already explained that vote and why I don't see anything wrong with wagons. Anyone does it, town and scum equally, for different reasons obviously.

Btw, I will reply to your case but if it's being dismissed again like last time with Beanman i won't bother anymore with this Sisyphean task. I will concentrate solely on scumhunting because that's what my Role PM told me to. I know I'm under a lot of suspicion and thus I have to explain myself but I'm sick of repeating myself and referring to statements I've already made (inb4 "Is this scum giving up?")

[Dekes]

@Cliquey
Your case is well written. I'll give you that. But that doesn't make most of the things any truer or any less distorted to strengthen your case
- You ignore the fact that I questioned Adrien, Beanman, Tux among others who had been active at that time
- You ignore the fact I kept on questioning kyle when he was active even when the wagon died down, because I was still suspicious and still am
- You ignore the fact that I'm not the only one in this game with few cases...you yourself said that the amount of cases were minimal at best
- You ignore the fact that I voted people not only because there weren't present but because of the content of what they posted and I stated so every single time
- You ignore the fact that it wasn't me who started the what-could-happen-if-player-X-flips scum scenario but Beanman did
- You falsely state that I go on with these things when in fact I said it in two consecutive posts after Beanman brought it up and then once again when being asked about it
- You ignore the possibility that I'm just being town trying to play it safe in his first game. Yep, blatantly playing the newbie card here.
- Your overuse of the phrase naval gazing is annoying. It's not that bad.

And please don't dabble in German. My English may not be perfect but you misspelled every single word, so please don't include this in your case.

And now I've got a couple of questions for you: You've replaced in with a lenghty post about AtS, stating shortly after that we actually have to have a better case on you than on everydody else (I hope to God that this was a joke), then you go on and re-read the thread. But you must've checked the previous pages first to figure out, I'm the prime suspect for town at the moment. So you check on me closer than on everbody else, find a dubious snippet that is supposed to make me look guilty and vote me on that (that happened before you case).
So, don't you think that you went after the easy target here?
Who else do you find suspicious? I can't be the only one who messed up all the time, right?

And now some food for thought for town: What do you think of this situation, if I actually turn out to be town (*gasp* impossible)?

I want to turn my attention to Tuxhedoh, because he's active lurking, not present and thus an easy target. I'm scum, it's what I do. /sarcasm
But seriously, he was being suspected by Beanman right before Beanman went head-on with me. Then Tux disappeared, but not entirely. He stated once per day he couldn't follow the thread because it was too much. I wouldn't be surprised if he surfaced again when enough "evidence" has been brought up against me and then present his case (or not because everything has been said by then so no need for a case) and vote me. Anyone else has a opinion on this?
I'm also interested in what McG has to say.

@yabba
I considered Beanman scummy in my lenghty post. I changed my opinion shortly after that. I never stated I thought his self-vote was scummy. I simply stated it was stupid. For obvious reasons.

[Dekes]

EBWOP:

Assume: Scum, to appear town, will "hunt" but choose the more arbitrary means of attack so that they do not actually have to put themselves out there.
Hypothesis: Dekes' attacks have been "safe" attacks.

He has constantly gone after townies for moderately indefensible things, rather than actually scumhunting.

Otherwise put; Dekes' attacks have been consistent with the attacks scum would make. They are shallow and do not actually prod at attacking for pro-scum behavior.

Explain this one, please. Why do you use the word "townies" here? In mafia the word "townie" is definitely reserved for the pro-town roles and unless you know something the rest of us don't I'd like to know why you would use the word "townies" here.

[Dekes]

I used your report of what you'd done Dekes, I didn't ignore anything there, direct copy and paste. It seems you say "I'm being misrepresented" to everything and anything, just in different amounts of words.

Yes, because you only read what you want to read. I stated in that post you based your case on that I only skimmed my Iso and might as well have missed something. And I also stated that people would use it against me to make me look like I'm just pretending to be town. But you needed to overlook that so that you can say afterwards that you quoted me on that to prove your points.

The rest is insulting. I'm not going to comment that.

Preview edit: You admitted that you went after people based on their activity. That is not scumhunting.

Going after people on what the say is.

And that's what I said and did. Several times. Look it up. On every single on of my votes I tried to analyze what the people have said and I voted on what I found to be scummy.
Btw, I asked you questions. You're here. Mind answering them?

More insults.

[Dekes]

Y'know, Adrien and tans first mention kyle should claim/defend himself and yabba is the first to openly state that kyle should claim his role (at L-2) in #148. Just FYI.

[Dekes]

I actually don't have time right now, but seeing now that I'm at L-1 I'll add in a quick post:

That's a pretty well-constructed case. I want to hear a bit from McGriddle before this day phase ends, but I will support a lynch on Dekes. As a matter of fact, I'll go ahead and VOTE: Dekes. I'm still convinced either Dekes or Cliquey is scum,

but I'm starting to lean towards Dekes. Worst case scenario, we'll all get some information from his flip.

Bad vote. You're not convinced I'm scum yet you're willing to lynch a townie for the sake of information instead of looking for hard evidence yourself now who might be scum and who might be town. You've made your vote based on a case that refers to a hastily made half assed iso of me

from me

.

I would love to know why I am an idiot Beanman? I actually think you are, I think you are barking up the wrong tree with Dekes, and I know you are barking up the wrong tree with me.

Vote: Dekes

This is even worse. You're giving into the two people who have nothing but tunneling me now for a while although you've stated that you're leaning pro-town and you haven't seen anything scummy from me. If they just looked at my post #362 from a neutral standpoint and not their distorted standpoint they would see, that not all I say is either OMGUS, fluff or AtE. In fact, most of what I state in that post makes a lot of sense.

@Beanman
Lynching a townie is never intelligent. So stop saying such manipulative things and bring in some proof.

Since I'm

V/LA

for the next 24 hours, because, well, it's Friday night I wanted to state one more thing.
Most (if not all) of the accusations against me are revolving around the fact that I allegedly vote on safe grounds like mafia would do.
- Find me one vote of mine that is reasoned solely on active lurking where I didn't address what the people I vote have said and what I found scummy about that.
- Find me one instance where I avoid confrontation because of who I voted and where I backed off only because people have reappeared.

Until then, would you please get off my back and start hunting real scum. Eight days is a lot of time to gather enough information if you're willing to start looking for it.

p.s.: Ugh@McG

[Dekes]

It's not Friday night yet...

- Find me one vote of mine that is reasoned solely on active lurking where I didn't address what the people I vote have said and what I found scummy about that.

Vote: kyle99

His last post still doesn't convince me. His strange excuse of his own lurking is not a good enough defense for me. And looking back on his posts I see him active lurking for the longest time, then, after being called out, making a horrible post where he's just parroting other users and then making a vote immediately after fence-sitting on that person (yes, I'm aware that I'm just stating now what other people have said before, but this is just a summary to explain my vote) and after that he disappears again - until he's put to L-1 when - boom - he's there not 30 mins later to attack this vote. This leads me to believe that he might have been lurking on purpose all along.

give me a second to do the other one

Is that vote based solely on active lurking like I asked or did I explain what I found scummy about kyle's behaviour apart from that?
You've been nothing but twisting my words for quite some time now to make everything you say against me seem right. I don't see how this is helpful to town or for your scumhunting career.


Also, I think at least one on the people on my wagon is scum. If both scum were still out there not voting me I think it would've been easy for them to hammer me by now without drawing too much suspicion. Wait, how long ago was the L-1? 12 hours. Well okay, it may happen tonight.

I'm leaning towards Cliquey (Yes, he/she's away right now, but they can and most likely will answer to this post on Sunday).
Not because of lurking (obivously), but these reasons among others:
- Kyle's actions. I still don't see why Beanman sees him as most obviously town in this game.
- Cliquey enters with a redundant AtE and keeps going back to it. They could've referred to their original post or just dropped but instead they kept insisting on it when being asked about.
- Stated way too many times, that they're town as if to subtly manipulating town to believe this is true.
- Their "townie"-slip up was...weird...I've yet to see someone refer to the whole of town as townies instead of players, people, etc....The word townies has a different meaning in mafia.
- Refused to give a list of who they think is town? Why keep this to yourself when town can benefit from this info? Because it could have impacts on who mafia is going to kill? Do you really think, mafia is only going with your info when choosing their night kill? Or are you afraid, if you give your scum partner a town vibe suspicion will fall onto you after your partner flips scum?
- Became overly aggressive and insulting when I pointed out the weak parts of his case.

I will vote Cliquey, when they return...if I'm still alive by then. Just some information for town if I won't be. But I wish for one last post before town decides to lynch me. Let's see if scum will grant it.

[Dekes]

Dekes, if you really believe that's the way to go, vote for him now. He won't be lynched when he gets back.

But he can't defend himself right now. And why eaxactly is your vote on me? I asked you about it earlier.

[Dekes]

Okay, I'm back and may be a bit drunk but I'm posting anyways

@Tux
This case is bad. And Beanman congratuling you on that case makes it even worse.
- Reading up on mafia theory =/= playing perfectly or even well in the first game
- In your qoute where I said townies I did mean townies as in pro-town roles....big difference
- I wanted to lynch kyle because I was convinced he was scum...Adrien didn't state as much about me up until his last post

@Beanman
Again you're just reading what you want to read and not the entirety of my post...more tunneling.

I refused to claim because no one asked me to. I'm gonna go kyle here and say, I will instantly claim (well, when I sign up next) once somebody outside of my wagon wants me to.

At this point, I'm not sure I can avoid my lynch. Beanman and Cliquey are dead-set (and dead-wrong) on me. Adrien wants to lynch me regardless of my alignment to seek out information. I still can't tell why tanstalas is voting me. So it just needs one more vote, Tux or McG seems to be likely candidates. I just hope my claim will give town enough information to find the real scum.

[Dekes]

EWBOP: last sentence should read "my flip" of course

[Dekes]

So in your eyes I've posted nothing but AtE, fluff and OMGUS in my last posts?

[Dekes]

Actually, along with accusing people of misquoting you and taking things out of context, that is exactly what you've done lately.

I was accusing people of AtE, OMGUS and fluff only? I was'nt trying to build cases and find scummy snippets? Lol.

I'm just clariyfing,. in the kyle situation, I was not on the wagon, and asked for his claim.

I didn't ask for the claim this time, mostly because I felt like I didn't know what to do with it once we had it.

Why that's really applicable here, I'm not seeing.

[Dekes]

We are literaly days now, from us being forced to no-lynch because we can't come to a desicion, You say you want town to win. Your two suspects are Cliquey and McG. let's say we lynch them, and your right. Your the hero. But what if your wrong sir? If they flip town, we have nothing, as every single person is suspicious of them. If you flip town, we have people who are clear and people who are more suspicious to pressure. Seems to me your lynch is the best chance for town to win, regardless of your flip...

How can you say that I declare myself as a hero when you say in the next sentence that everybody is suspicious of the two people? Everybody should be happy if we lynch scum (except for the second scum).
And if all people - as you state - are suspicious of McG and Cliquey, isn't the likeliness higher that more people are town of those who are suspicious, making those two more likely scum. Or to put it in another way: Isn't it more likely if only four or five people are suspicious of me that there are more scum are among those people?

[Dekes]

Baw, it would've been neat to hand in one night action. Who knows when the next time I get a PR will be.

Good luck, town.

@Mod (or any other player with the appropriate knowledge):

I believe it's redundant because I haven't seen any in Newbie games so far, but there will be no Zombie QT, right?

[Dekes]

GG.

Poor Fenhl. Replaced into this game and finally finished his re-read only to see the game end this way.

I can't believe tanstalas didn't get more heat on Day 3. He became painfully obvious scum on Day 3 (and re-reading his Day 2 activity and Day 1 bandwagoning only reinforced this).
I may have suspected pacman because of PoE. Beanman, Cliquey and Tux/Fenhl (more or less) seemed to be more likely town during Day 2/3. I'd love to see the Mafia QT including Mob though

Overall I didn't enjoy reading this game as much as most of the other Newbie games I've read so far. It got too personal way too often and with town being stubborn/pissed at each other most of the time it made it too easy for scum coasting through to victory.

Here's the link to the rather short Zombie QT for anyone who's interested.