Newbie 955 - Game over

[LobsterCatapult]

its mafia! be suspicious of everyone...at least at first

[LobsterCatapult]

vote: adaham

no ones mentioned him yet!

[LobsterCatapult]

:O just trying to make sure no one feels unloved or left out by random/slightly lighthearted p1 voting!

[LobsterCatapult]

whats an alt? :O

[LobsterCatapult]

Also, we'd get nowhere if everyone wanted to hold hands and keep a one-vote-per-player rule in place. More Ray votes please.

isnt it also good for town to have discussion though, and not a total consensus on day 1 votes so soon? i mean, i know all of us voting for all different people doesnt get us anywhere, but doesnt having a few different perspectives and votes for different people help town more than just getting more votes for someone at first?

[LobsterCatapult]

Also, we'd get nowhere if everyone wanted to hold hands and keep a one-vote-per-player rule in place. More Ray votes please.

isnt it also good for town to have discussion though, and not a total consensus on day 1 votes so soon? i mean, i know all of us voting for all different people doesnt get us anywhere, but doesnt having a few different perspectives and votes for different people help town more than just getting more votes for someone at first?

Random voting early on is supposed to spark the discussion.

no, im not referring to the random voting, im more referring to getting more votes for one player in particular so fast, like ray, esp phrasing it like that

[LobsterCatapult]

sandman doesnt really come across as scummy, but at this point, no one really stands out, esp since not everyone has posted like sailor or valkyrie. but i couldnt be too unopposed to it, since you did have a valid point: pressure does reveal information.

but why sandman? or did you just pick him arbitrarily?

[LobsterCatapult]

this is the first game ive ever started, but i've seen people vote at first just to get people talking, i think ill keep my vote where it is for now, just to see what adaham might say in response.

but yeah sandman, if you want to pressure inactives, why not have pressure both of them? i mean, in some huge games, you have to make an example out of one of them, but this one is so small, itd be easy to apply the same pressure to sailor and valkyrie.

[LobsterCatapult]

Just a quick one, as I have to go to work in 15 minutes. I´ll be back later in the day.

@ Lobster: Nobody has mentioned me because I have made 1 post in which I made a rather legit point (for page 1 standards). For the rest, I don´t see really what kind of reaction you are expecting from me, as the only thing you said was that I might be forgotten. Sounds like you´re acting concerned for the sake of discussion, without actually any real substance to it.

yeah, you are correct, i wanted to try to get a discussion going since discussions usually help town out, nothing you said was necessarily scummy, i simply wanted to spur discussion along and since you posted, i thought that you would address my vote.

the only thing of substance that kinda caught my eye is that in a mafia game, i havent really seen people vote for people in regards to treatment of the mod that wasnt...super terrible, so it just stood out to me.

im a little surprised by sailors vote...why just the vote for valkyrie? id be nice to have some sort of explination than your....just coming into vote. seems odd like you are posting just to vote.

[LobsterCatapult]

<b> unvote

vote:sailorpallas</b>

sailorpallas comes across as more likely to be mafia than adaham at this point, reading over his posts, and i'd like a reason for sailors vote, as well as an explination on just got on to vote...it seems like he doesn't intend on adding substance, only a vote, to posts to me.

[LobsterCatapult]

unvote

vote:sailorpallas

sorry, wrong tags.

[LobsterCatapult]

good reasoning and actually the reason i chose valk with little to no explanation a person appears late in the game? mind you i always dstrust people who change there votes without any good reason as maybe they are just trying to sow dischord

im....not quite understanding what you wrote here...

i dont think you really addressed what i wanted. didnt also come in late in the game? and what do you mean "good reasoning and actually the reason"

i think i addressed my reason for changing my vote pretty succinctly and well, if you want i can give you specific reasons why i changed my vote, but what i got from this, is you voted for valk for posting late, when you yourself did the same thing...though i may have misunderstood O_o

[LobsterCatapult]

<b> unvote

vote:sailorpallas</b>

sailorpallas comes across as more likely to be mafia than adaham at this point,

reading over his posts

, and i'd like a reason for sailors vote, as well as an explination on just got on to vote...it seems like he doesn't intend on adding substance, only a vote, to posts to me.

You mean post? At time of this sailorpallas had but one message. It was just a seemingly random vote however but still, this comes off a bit stranger in my eyes.

sorry i meant adaham's posts, not sailors.

ok, i guess i see what you are saying sailor, but at the same time, it was only about a day into the game...and arent days 3 weeks? i suppose im used to watching slower paced games, but i dont see yours, or valks delayed posts as too suspecious yet....

your vote w/o explination real quick just seemed suspecious...idk, though i do agree on your view of vote changing, do you mean in regards to mr sandman or in general?

[LobsterCatapult]

kingcod (1) Adaham
Valkyrie (3) MrSandman, AdumbroDeus, sailorpallas
MrSandman (3) Hoopla, RayFrost, kingcod
sailorpallas (1) LobsterCatapult
(No vote) Valkyrie
9 alive; 5 votes lynch.

i can´t i can only give my reason for voting in that way and(i only mentioned as it is bloody obvious that i am hypocritical in a way for voting as such) though it does make me seem more guilty why didn´t i choose a person who more people are voting on or lynching? i only wanted to clarify that yes my reason implicates me but one still has to think on it

you not only managed to be seen as hypocritical, but you also seemed to contradict your reasoning in the second part now that i look at it. you say you dont like people changing votes for no reason in particular, well you did just that, you changed your vote from unvoted to voting for someone without a clear reason in your first post. this looks like foolish reasoning and you come across as someone who is bandwagoning and even though you point to yourself in the same regard as suspicion, you now come across as more suspicious than valk.

[LobsterCatapult]

um....what is L-2? does this refer to the difference in votes it takes to lynch someone?

[LobsterCatapult]

oh, gotcha..thats what i thought but i wasnt sure.i guess this is the best game to learn the terms XD

[LobsterCatapult]

Which one it be?

Just a quick comment on SailorPallas - this doesn't look like scum playing and Sandman's tunnelling of SailorPallas is in itself more scummy. SP - if I said you looked like you had made a newbie slip or two I hope you won't be offended.

Here´s one of the things I actually really agree with you. When I see top of the page that we´ve got two L-2 wagons, then I´m pretty sure the scum is probably having a vote on one of each. While writing this, I actually see with great concern that AdumbroDeus has changed the wagon, after being already on the safe side with his "calling out vote" on Valkyrie.

Of all people playing, I see SailorPallas as the one that has the most "Newbie"-air around himself. He comes in clanging clumsily and behaves a bit naive in general. Please don´t take this insulting, but I´ve seen plenty of really new players come in like that as innocents. Before they catch the drift of the game (or sometimes it´s just their style), they are usually lynched. Noob-Scum makes other mistakes, or so my gut says.

I believe the Scummies are very happy a lynchable, self-incriminating target has stepped upon the stage and they are trying to get the bandwagon rolling. This means that Lobster and Adumbro have risen considerably on my list of suspects. As it is good not to get tunnel-vision, and while my suspicion partially remains on kingcod, I´m going to move my vote.

vote: AdumbroDeus

His "pressure vote" on Valkyrie was the second vote, and considering Val hadn´t even checked in, it was a nice place in between. Nobody is going to call him out on that, but SailorPallas stepped into the trap and got all the attention for the third vote (the reason being pretty much the same as Adumbros, just uttered from the wrong mouth). His ways of scumhunting seem to be looking for easy bandwagons and as he admitted in his latest post, "he´s now got a scummy target", which probably means he´s serious about his vote.

Last, but not least, he´s got no Avatar

[/quote]

i dont see how i was starting a bandwagon...its not like i was like....whoa dudes, lets lynch! i was merely pointing out that i didnt like his first post, it came across as scummy, i wanted to see his reasoning. I didnt like his reasoning, because it just kinda all contradicted itself and seemed jumbled, like perhaps he was just bandwagoning with a scum.

ive taken your views into consideration, honestly, i see where you are getting at with him just probably being a newb like me, it just was very strange and really stuck out and i decided to switch my vote, and i think ill stick with it for now because no one else is really as suspecious and id still like to hear from him about my last post. however, there are 2 reasons why i think that he might not be scum

1) when i asked him if about the voting without reason, and in regards to mr sandman, i think if he was scum he could have said yes in regards to mr sandman specifically, and that he might have lead an attack or something to deflect off himself, instead he just went in general.

2) i think that also the fact that he is being hypocritical points to more of him being new to the game rather than him being scum because perhaps his scum friend would help him out?

i am familiar with the "tunnelling" aspect of the game, and i honestly didnt think that a few post exchanges could be considering tunneling, i mean, im trying to look into everyone here

i think mr sandman was jumping to a bit of a conclusion that sp was defending me when he interpreted my post as a typo, i mean, i think thats a pretty weak argument that simply thinking i typoed is defending me, not content i actually posted.

to king cod i honestly dont like the broad questions townie questions either, i suppose for 2 reasons, i dont really see why i would answer something like that, it feels like you are asking for information you may not want to say yourself, i dont know if thats true with you or not, but ive seen people do that in other games where its been the case. the other, idk, i feel like...its a bit less fun? i know we take the game seriously, and the object of the game is find and lynch scum before they confuse or nk us, but i feel like the bantering back and forth with personal direct questions is more...fun than simply all of town answering a question from one person.

i also, responding to you, isnt it possible or probable for SP to be both a newb and a scum with those posts? i mean, i could see a newb mafia saying both things, i mean, his posts obviously dont seem as experienced as yours or hooplas or even ray frosts...but that doesnt mean he is only newb, that being said, im not trying to imply that you think he coudln't be scum, you just didnt seem to indicate that he could be both.

also, in regards to king cod's posts about joking, ive also seen mafia games go through a longer humorous stage than this, so, i could see where he is coming from, and even though we are having discussion now, i dont think its unreasonable to think that people are just adjusting to the....maturity of this game perhaps?

i might not be on much this weekend fyi, ill try to check in tomorrow and anyone asks me questions ill try to respond to them by sunday night

[LobsterCatapult]

Maybe I should have been more clear on that last point. The reason he´s jumped upon (voting for Valkyrie for the most hyproctical reasons) is actually so blatant that I´m slightly unwilling to accept it as a real scumtell, that´s what I mean with "too easy". Considering this is a Newbie-game, I´m more concerned of those that have obviously more experience and exploit the mistakes of the Newbs for their own purposes.

On the other hand there is no real reason to believe in SP´s innocence either, especially as he´s gone fairly quiet again. Considering he´s part of the issue, it´d be nice to hear more and maybe something more substantial. As nice as it is that Valkyrie sees something in my points, a bit more activity would be appreciated as well.

Nice one for AdumbroDeus and kingcod:

Are you suggesting lynching weak townies as a strategy to thin out the choices?

If I was kingcod and innocent, I´d be a bit more harsh in my critique of this basically outrageous statement of AD. to the packy to pace it down?

It was interesting to see how AD and Lobster replied in different manners. While AdumbroDeus appears short and confident, Lobster seems a lot more defensive, as if a nerve was hit. Anyone else seeing that? I´m not quite sure whether to ascribe that to different personalities, experience, or roles.

If I had to choose between AD and Lobster, I´d say that AD is probably more dangerous, but Lobster seems like he´s playing the newbie card a bit too much for my taste. He knows very well how to play this game and since most of us are new to this forum, he shouldn´t try to emphasize this as much as he does. Granted, this is very much gut-based, but since I respect my gut, I´m sharing these thoughts.

No vote change at this moment, but a

FoS: LobsterCatapult

Looking forward to some fresh nsights from Hoopla and more than only questions from RayFrost [/quote]

i have a hard time explaining myself in a short and concise way, and i can get rather defensive, those are things im trying to work on, but i know that many people who play this game are better than me at articulating their ideas and not getting so defensive when i feel under a little bit of pressure.

ive read some mafia games, and replaced an inactive in late game, but this is the first ive started, so im not a total newb, but im new to the whole starting a mafia game.

@hoopla

i agree with your response about AdumbroDeus, putting people into catagories can make us focus on only a few characteristics of players, and miss others. i think when we start to put players into boxes, we can miss the little details that can reveal themselves as town or scum tells, or just how they play the game for future games.

[LobsterCatapult]

On the whole 'lets winnow the chaff from the corn' debate its becoming a bit of a null point - surely we only vote for someone who we believe is genuinely scum ... therefore to rank order scum, inactives and weak players (post 103) is simply not relevant.

i agree with this, especically since days are 3 weeks long, it gives inactives or weak players to get into the rhythm of the game. i know that if days go on that long, that it can help scum hide, or ppl to get inactive because they may get bored of it, but i think that it helps players grow to have long days to debate back and forth, and thus get more confident. and perhaps, override adaham's fears of townies getting frightened and going inactive over time. though i suppose the same could be said of the scum playing the game as well...i think our scum hunting skills can really only get better the longer days can get.

@kingcod though, adaham might be sowing discontent, he kinda comes across as just aggressive in general and eager to get down to business. i suppose that could be scummy, but im not quite seeing it yet. he also doesnt come across as a newb, though im really unfamiliar with rankings and who qualifies as newb, err...ic or w/e.

also, i think what adaham said was correct, it would be nice to have some content valk since we havent heard much from you. you also seem to get a bit worked up. however, adaham did come across as a bit condescending...which isn't the best tone to encourage newbies to post content.

[LobsterCatapult]

ugh sorry adaham, i completely misread that. and i guess to clarify, the condescending remark i thought was more of the

"Hardly an excuse. It isn't slow all the time, so you really should've finished by now."

not the actual request, i mean, id like the same for SP too.

If I was kingcod and innocent, I´d be a bit more harsh in my critique of this basically outrageous statement of AD. Wink to the packy to pace it down?

though you are adding to the debate, i dont think this comment is. by saying if i were this player, i would have acted differently to this action. i mean, of course you would have acted differently, we are different people(obv), i dont see how this is actively scumhunting, this comment does seem like its stirring a bit of discontent because all thats really going on is you pointing out differences in game play, and it has the potential to draw a biased conclusion from it.

[LobsterCatapult]

ugh, im torn, my gut still feels like SP could be scum...and i feel like the longer it goes by that SP doesnt post, the more potential for scum he is, but, as you guys have stated, he could just be a lingering townie who got spooked from the pressure, or IRL stuff came up. I dont know the replacement protocol, but it may be a good idea if he doesnt post soon. i know that lynching inactives arent the best thing to happen to town...so ill

unvote

for now, hopefully he will get replaced soon or post.

im not really feeling sandman's vote on kingcod, but it could be possible, king cod is scum of course. however, i dont really get the whole scum vibe from you. i also dont really like how early in the game, his motives for voting for valk, shifted and unvoted easily. this has been debated hotly, but i can see why he has the votes on him that he does. and i also didnt like how he accused SP of defending me with him assuming i typoed, i mean, it didnt really make sense.

valkyrie hasn't really given me reason to think she is scum, but she hasnt given me a good read based on how she doesnt post much, however, it could be a case like SP.

hoopla comes across as town from me, though the presumptuous asking of opinions and votes seems more aggressive than scum.

kingcod, i didnt like the blanket questions for town, but i dont see this as scummy behavior, its prolly more of a preference. i dont think kingcod comes across as scummy enough to really place a vote one, but i suppose there is a slight scumminess. more so than hoopla, adaham.

adaham, is a very aggressive player, and though i obvously dont agree with his suspecions on me, i can see him hunting scum well, and i dont think he is scum.

adumbrodeus: he has gone away for the time being, and his points are rather....bizarre, i dont agree with him on some points, and is sort of scummy. i think his putting players into catagories generally doesn't help find scum in my opinion because they overlap so much. he could be trying to throw us off track. i think he comes across as sort of scummy as well. i agree with sandman's posts and the more i look at it, the more i can see how he may have tried to latch onto my vote for SP just to throw off town.

vote:adumbrodeus

there is more to my opinions for my vote and other people, esp since i didnt address ray frost, but this post took longer than i thought, and work calls!! ill continue my post later on tonight or tomorrow, but for right now, im content with my vote change.

[LobsterCatapult]

@rayfrost, i have looked over your posts, and they are very concise, and to the point for most of them, without much elaboration. though what you say has clear logic and to the point, you dont post too much content-wise except in short snippets. and almost expect that to be ok. id like to hear from you a bit more in depth, though you've posted a bit, yours are sometimes the shortest posts. espcially the one pointing out sandman's quick unvote of valk due to a broad question from hoopla. and i do agree, ive replaced some mafias, and imo, sometimes its a bit easier to get into the game, once a few days and nks have already been underway, but stil, itd be nice to see a bit more.

@hoopla-looking back on hoopla, though your spurring of this was rather helpful, it was rather presumptuous, and this goes along with what i dont particularly liked about king cod's question. though you havent rung scum for me quite yet, this could be fishing to extract any town power we have...and i cant say it isnt somewhat scummy, even though you did spur this on, i agree you are coming off as a bit moddish, seemingly above us, though maybe not on purpose because youre IC and i may have interpretted it in a way you did not mean.

@redtail, im glad you have replaced, its nice to see a fresh face, through your posts, you come across a straight shooter, i still havent made up my mind however. but i do disagree with you somewhat in regards to sandman, some of sandman's things have come across suspect, and at first i disagreed and decided to read back through it, but now i can see where you are coming from.

i am surprised he still has this many votes, kingcod and adumbro, to me seem to ring a bit more scummy...even though they are at each others necks @_@. kingcod has said some things that have rubbed me the wrong way, and that i havent understood, but sandman has had some odd voting behaviors in the beginning, but htat could be because he got jumped on and didn't defend himself in the most solid way. im on the fence about sandman but i understand where you are coming from with a new point of view. i think that sandman recently has come up with some solid defense, and retorts.

@valk...still waiting...

@adumbro, i understand that you may have some different background, but these games are bit slower paced, you seem to be aggressive, but also you seem to be demeaning the game itself. i mean, its day one, days are 3 weeks long, if its a bit slowly paced, then i understand why, ive watched games that days are 2 days long, and the pace is obviously faster with more propensity to lynch people who may be inactive after day 1 because its a faster game, and there are more people, its easier to lurk if its a game of 21 than 9 and might be easier to get called out. here, if i want to go out of town for a day or two, i wont get replaced if i say so. i think your overall attitude is "what can i expect of these people thru scumhunting, rather than, what do these people expect of me thru scumhunting" you want us to show you the money, and you seem to be like, omg, you dont like my lurker lynch, yall dont get me.

also, i have some long work shifts ahead of me, and some court stuff to figure out, i may not be on to post much in the next 2 days. i will try to address any questions, or comments to me by saturday night. however if i miss lynch, i am sorry.

[LobsterCatapult]

@LobsterCatapult

hoopla comes across as town from me, though the presumptuous asking of opinions and votes seems more aggressive than scum.

Is this list of questions aggressive? Is is scummy?

hey, i found some time to post after all (btw this smilie is cute)

ok to business.

i dont see it as too scummy because you have posted a lot of content for someone who just joined., andhoopla comes across as more, asking questions for everyone, like kingcod, and addressing everyone, while you have questions for individuals. i like individual questions better becuase, imo, it comes across as less fishing and more...idk fun? i almost feel offended when general questions are posed without much content for the game with it because im stubborn and im like...why should i respond to you? what have you done for me lately? i know this an immature way of looking at it, and thus why i have been mature and responded, but, i must admit thats my initial reaction.

hoopla has a lot of good statistical data, but she has been posting a lot of general knowledge so far, and not a lot about this individual game and these circumstances, which i think is why we are getting on adumbro's case a bit too. i cant say this information isnt helping, but IF hoopla is scum, which is possible, i dont know if its too probable, maybe she is making up the stats. i mean, im trying to be skeptical without being paranoid and for now ill take her information as on the level, but there is always the possibility it isnt, and i think we should recognize the possibility is there. i think that hoopla is a better player than adumbro and in terms of using blanket mafia information to help in this game, i think they have both integrated this style of play into this game.

@Valkyrie Do you like Pearl Jam?

^ LOL this is great

anyway, now looking back on kingcods play, he does seem to flip flop a lot, im begining to see that he can be complacent, he even accuses mr sandman of tunneling...and then revoking it later when slightly pressured about it. i mean, tbh, kingcod and sandman have acted in similar ways to different situations, esp in terms of voting, but sandman comes across as more genuine. i mean, people can change their minds, but, i am begining to see how he can be easily swayed, mr sandman seems to have matured in this game, and has some more solid reasoning rather than kingcod.

idk, in conclusion due to recent activity...i suppose if i were to make a simple spectrum, from town to mafia itd be:

me, adaham,ray, redtail/hoopla(tied so far....),sandman,valkyrie, kingcod and adumbro are close

is becoming more and more suspecious the more i look into it.

im sticking with adumbro

for now

, i think kingcod also has the propensity, like sandman to have too much "scumdar" into not so scummy things, like with sandman's aggresiveness into sp's defense of my typo, and with kingcod the PM debate, and his FoS of adaham. and this could lead to distractions and trying to pin newbs with pressure thats not warrented.

[LobsterCatapult]

idk, ive been waiting to hear what me=weird has to say. is kingcod at L-1?

imo, kingcod has a point, we are all influenced by different peoples opnions, and if we base an action off other's reasoning, i dont necessarily see how that is ineffective/scummy or otherwise. i mean, i dont think this clears kingcod of any suspecion, but it brings up a valid point that it does help the game progress, and people grow if they think they can agree with anothers reasoning, build off it, and take action without fear of automatically being a sheep or buddying up, or being scummy.

but i agree with redtail, that kingcod i dont think you did a very good job articulating what reasoning you were borrowing from.

[LobsterCatapult]

...i dont see where posting our top three will get us anywhere. i already said i really dont like straight out questions like these....you, kingcod and hoopla sure to have similar strategies to spur the game along >.>

top lynches thus far

1)adumbro
2)kingcod
3)-------

im not comfortable with a lynch that is any other than these two candidates thus far. maybe im being closed minded, but with the evidence presented to me, these 2 i find the scummiest, and the rest are floating around in the unsure pool. i think these are the best lynches, though...hoopla has been coming across as less and less town...but im still not bought, something tells me this is just how hoopla does things. im kinda torn between my gut feeling for hoopla, and the logic being presented. i like her explination of theory chats, i suppose i just wish she would connect the dots a bit better?

im willing to change this idea on my "lynch list" if there are better arugments, however, now, i think these two are the way to go.
@kingcod. ok, i see, those were things i found suspicious at first as well.

[LobsterCatapult]

can we get votals? im terrible at math @___@

[LobsterCatapult]

i dont think im going to be around midday tomorrow since ill be at work. im sorry ill miss deadline if we dont lynch before this, but it cant be helped.

i really thought AD was scum, and i still think you could be too exemption. i dont like kingcod, yet i didnt like AD more, and i dont know about sandman. sandman, like exception said, started out looking scummier than he is now, i think this is because he got rhythm in the game not for being scum. excemption, do you think sandman is scum?

i...actually find myself agreeing with some of kingcods opinions, exception hasnt done much to persuade me he is town, or not scummy, and i dont get why kingcods opinions are just wierd.. exception are you going to give us a bit of detail?

i dont get why lynching hoopla would give us info, but a dead hoopla would be a bad thing? i mean. why bother lynching someone if itd be bad for town? info we can get through other means...like pressure or claiming or w/e not just by lynching @__@. this mentality in itself is....backward. id only vote/push for a lynch on hoopla or any other player, if i thought it was best for town. period.

exemption, do you think that hoopla is town?

i agree with redtail, he and adaham have suspecions, but they would lynch hoopla to help town, not for your reasons.

me=weird. i wish you'd post more. same goes for ray, id like your opinions. i was going to wait to post again till i saw something from me=weird.

exemption, like your predecessor, dont come across as town. im keeping my vote on you. kingcod may be at L-1, and it may help town to move the game along, however, i feel my vote is best placed here.

[LobsterCatapult]

who is inactive?

[LobsterCatapult]

hey sorry, im here. ive been out of town and now reading up and i still like my vote where it is. im glad sandman was replaced by someone who is a bit more active thanks equinox! haha i barely recognize this game anymore from the players that it originally comprised.

anyway, ive read up and i have to say that im kinda leaning towards kingcods claim being legitimate. however, town vanilla is what mafia would fake claim. i agree with equinox's opinions on the game, i don't really like how kingcod isn't willing to go all out for the lynch, after all this time spent this day one, i would like to get a lynch going, even if we town make a mistake, like equinox said, we can use the info to perhaps avoid a similar mistake d2 or later days.

@equinox, is your vote on exemption based on making him L-2, or do you find him scummy as well? sorry if i missed a post saying that you thought he was, im going to reread the last page.

[LobsterCatapult]

@equinox, is your vote on exemption based on making him L-2, or do you find him scummy as well? sorry if i missed a post saying that you thought he was, im going to reread the last page.

Exemption was on my top 3. Since kingcod is no longer in the running, he's next for the noose.

I think it has something to do with how I usually react when I know I'm town but can't convince anyone otherwise... He's acting quite similar to that. I don't think scum is going to give up so easily on Day 1, considering that they'll be pretty much screwed all game if they die that early. kingcod's frustration sounds genuine.

so, kingcod is "out of the running" in your opinion because of his claim, and his attempt to shake people off him when he cant think of any other viable options? im not writing off kingcod as "out of the running" so easily. i dont think anyone should.

yeah. he could be just reflecting a newb townie trying to get people off his ass by waiving a "im just a nilla! y the lynch?", but i dont really see it that way. i see it as..."if i claim, at least some of them will be my ass and maybe i can sit back on this. "

i mean, since the roles are clearly laid out in this game with 4 scenarios, claiming vanilla is easy and predictable. i feel a bit the same, though in reverse, as redtail, where i dont like kingcod, but i dont like exemption more. i wouldnt mind a kingcod lynch, but exemption is my perferred lynch.

and...c'mon ray. where you at?! i feel like we are letting ray coast by under the radar a bit....

im kinda frustrated like hoopla is, yeah i havent been around the past few days, but this inactivity and all the need for replacements is disheartening, i just hope it's better d2 :/

[LobsterCatapult]

:-/ we lost our dr...well damn.

hey, sorry for missing the lynch d1, i was at work and it couldnt really be helped. i was a bit surprised at the hoopla lynch, i thought there were better candidates out there. also cirno thanks for replacing

i missed exemption's claim, and i dont think we should risk a lynch today on a claimed cop if we already lost our dr. although, if exemption is scum fake claiming, the real cop should definitely not claim. thats exactly what he wants. im still suspecious of excemption and now a little suspecious of redtail that they could be scum because they wanted the lynch on hoopla. im going to go over the votals on hoopla.

my view on this game is a bit changed because i honestly also thought there was a chance hoopla was scum. i also cant wait to see what other people think of the events of d1 and n1.

[LobsterCatapult]

Equinox (2) RayFrost, Hoopla
Exemption (2) Adaham, LobsterCatapult

Hoopla (5) kingcod, Exemption, Equinox, Me=Weird, redtail896

9 alive; 5 votes lynch.

Hoopla

, a

Townie

, was lynched.

Please send in your night choices. The night will end somewhere between 70 - 80 hours (around three days) from the time of this post.

(edit)

Day has been delayed for a replacement.

ok, sorry ive been away, ive been on vacation with my family and bf, and mafia scum was down when i last checked it before i left.

Ok, >.>, my bad, ill never express my lament for losing a dr n1 ever again. i also think that the reasoning for equinox taking her vote of exemption was because she was a dr and the chance of a dr and a cop being in a game are pretty good.

anyway, with losing our dr, coupled with the idea that if IF exemptions claim is legitimate, it is now more probable that the mafia has a roleblocker, which can make exemptions excuse more believable. if there is a roleblocker, and if exemption is our cop, he is now basically a townie since he will prolly be roleblocked for the rest of the game until we lynch their roleblocker or exemption dies via lynch or nk. or he could just be faking it, like me=wierd says. i mean, what would be an easier reason to keep your cover up?

looking back on votals i think that there could be scum hiding out in the lynch on hoopla most definitely. mafia would have seen hoopla, our most experienced player and wanted hoopla gone. i think with kingcod being extermely scummy, and with him starting the votes on hoopla, he rises to the scum list. exemption doesnt look good for being on the hoopla lynch either. looking back, i think redtail's hammer would be considered scummy, however with d1 going on so long, and his reasoning, i dont see it too scummy, as just trying to find out some results. I think its most likely that at least 1 scum was on the hoopla lynch.

@exemption, now that hoopla is dead, as i recall you saying, what sort of "information" do you think came out of her lynch?

also, @adaham, d1 did you see exemptions role claim and just leave your vote on him? or did you miss it like i had and just happened to have it there?

cirno is neutral for now, im inclined to believe, with all these replacements, that people just lost interest in this game, however, weve had so many replacements, one of them could easily be scum, who knows maybe both were replaced. i also dont know if ray frost's meta gaming could be applied, if he has been in many games, couldnt he easily alter his play style to suit "town" esp in a newbie game if he is scum? if he is so experienced, it wouldnt surprise me that he'd be able to fake a town approach he used in an earlier game. we could look back on his games, but redtail has a point, ray had done little to help town in this game, and replacing him could mean he lost interest, but he could have also been scum that just got bored as well, i mean, his vote was on our dr day 1.

also, i may have missed this, but why do you think adaham is scummy?

@kingcod, why cirno and adaham scumbuddies? neither of them were on the hoopla lynch...though you could be right in thinking one of them could be scum, they both had their votes, either coincidently or not, on either confirmed or claimed town power d1. though, depending on adahams response it could have been the case like me, where i just was not on to see his claim. i think you are either running before you can walk as a townie, or grasping at straws as scum.

[LobsterCatapult]

i missed exemption's claim, and i dont think we should risk a lynch today on a claimed cop if we already lost our dr. although, if exemption is scum fake claiming, the real cop should definitely not claim. thats exactly what he wants.

This is a perfect scum thing to say, because if Exemption is scum then this is exactly what the scum team wants us to think. I also think it's flat wrong. Thoughts?

I agree that this statement is actually more substantial than the beginning remark in itself (even though that was what tingled the gut immediately). To me this sounds like forced villager thinking, even though I also disagree. As the chances are still 50/50 whether we´re actually having a cop and a role/blocker or not, the scum now has a knowledge advantage as they know for sure which scenario we´re in (through the death of the doctor). If there is a roleblocker, then there is also still a cop, which most probably would be Exemption then. But if the scum (no roleblocker) took the risk to claim cop, nailed the doctor in night 1, then they are off the hook and double-bluff the existence of a cop as well as a roleblocker. The perfect cover. Since Exemption was close to a lynch, this kind of risk could be considered worthwhile. If there was a cop after all, he would most probably pay with his life for revealing Exemption.
Lobsters conclusions shed also a stronger light on his "pity the doctor" entrance. I think he got excited and wanted to channelize by being helpful. His conclusions though seem like an attempt to subtly promote a favorable scenario for himself and his packy.

i was a bit excited, but not for the motives you stated. i was a bit excited to have a new day and a new chance to go over the information from d1, and the results of n1. i guess you cant call it super excitement since our dr ended up dead, but nonetheless, i saw it as a semi-fresh start. and yeah, i was trying to be helpful, obviously i got the ball rolling on some discussion, although the target of that discussion was on me. but oh well, it beats the inane inactivity we had going on d1. i should have more thoroughly looked at the scenarios and their likeliness before i posted. looking back on it. instead it looks like i just bred confusion. if you want to beat my comment, and i guess my supposed scummy conclusions into this confusing scenario into the ground then ok sure. i think our attention is warrented elsewhere like finding actual scum. (and yes im female).

i am leaning towards exemption being our actual cop....but only because of one thing he said, and want to see if he will comment on. he said early on that lynching hoopla would give us information, well, that was way before his claim. this could have been him breadcrumbing his claim early on in the game. and his wishy-washiness that we called him out on could have been him simply trying not to stick out and blend in as town power.

@kingcod-- yeah, youre starting a lynch train on hoopla ended up not so great. even with hoopla's stats on how usually d1 doesnt usually help town, losing our most experienced player d1 sucks. and though i can see people's reasoning for being on hoopla, yours, exemptions and perhaps m=w is the weakest, and your past game play thus im suspecting you.

[LobsterCatapult]

Alright. Discussion seems to be lagging, so I'm going to try to kickstart it. Besides, I've been tossing this around in my head for a bit now.

VOTE: kingcod

The Cirno-Adaham scumteam is a bit farfetched I think, and I still haven't seen a real case from you about it. You seem to theorize that everything that's happening today is a grand conspiracy on the part of the mafia, but I don't buy it. You also encourage everyone else to vote while not committing to a vote yourself.

i agree with your opinions on what kingcod is doing, i think he is trying to deflect more so than come up with an actual case that ray/cirno and adaham are scumbuddies. i didnt get any interaction between him and ray d1, even though ray was pretty inactive. i think he is more so trying to point fingers to throw discussion off him.

i still havent made up my decision on cirno. the whole adaham/cirno bickering i think has helped town just get discussion going and getting different cases and points into light, i dont see it as 2 scums bussing each other or putting on a show.

[LobsterCatapult]

im sorry, my motem broke and it took a while for cox to get me a replacement, with that and me being out of town for a few days, ive been lacking in the internet access department :-/ ill be posting soon, ive skimmed most of the posts, im going to go back over them more indepth and post

[LobsterCatapult]

I have ruined many a game with quote wars that rage on for 10 pages at a time, causing those not involved in the war to become less and less enthused about the game with each post.

... and I think one of the reasons you might be doing this is to get me lynched more easily and dissuade wider scum hunting when this is really what town needs to do.

On the rest of your responses to my response most of it is WIFOM so not worth the argument with you (sorry to disappoint) - as an example

The pattern is that all of your suspects are the people one would expect scum to target

meh.

This is interesting though (don't you think Redtail) on the Hoopla vote?:

Ah, the "It wasn't just me!" defense. Yes, four others voted for Hoopla. And of them, only one (Redtail) had a proper reason for doing so.

Does this make you think that Cirno is wise and perceptive or just sucking up to Redtail? What constitutes a 'proper reason'? We ALL 4 voters gave reasons - they were ALL wrong!

Lobster and Exemption - what do you make of whats going on?

i think that you are scummy, next to exemption, you were the next scummiest person in my opinion d1. i think that also you are wrong in the fact that cirno has not helped widen the scum search. this is based on his interactions with weird, adaham and perhaps even me since there was a discussion on me. im not saying that all 3 of these people are town however he has helped discussion a lot, even helped the the scum net has been cast wide, and we are still boomerranging back to you as the most scummy person.

i think that cirno may be a bit narrow in thinking that only redtail had a valid reason in voting for hoopla, i saw equinox's reasoning as solid, and with the day already drawing later than 3 weeks, i dont necessarily blame some people for voting for hoopla to draw the day to a close, however i dont think you fall into that field, esp with your vote changing.

i also think your woe is town speech is a bit dramatic for my tastes. its only d2, we are most certainly not sunk and exemption may not even be our cop.

[LobsterCatapult]

i dont think either are scum right now. i never said i thought they were. i just said that cirno helped lead discussion and scum searches on them.

[LobsterCatapult]

due to the holiday, i will be out of town from the 3rd-4th. i dont think ill be able to post because where im going my firends place has terrible dail up internet.

i will be able to post today/tomorrow i think. ill look stuff over now.

[LobsterCatapult]

hey, im back, ive skimmed the posts thus far and realize that i have a few things to address, also that adaham has been replaced, thanks for replacing kyle99:)

basically i think that cirno is town, just if basically helping stir the pot a bit and helping shed light on more people than just kingcod. i suppose this point can be seen as a bit strange at first considering that cirno has basically been calling for the lynch of kingcod since she replaced ray. however, she also stirred the pot with adaham. i am leaning town on cirno, but if (big if) kingcod flips town, a like what redtail has said, im going to have to re-evaluate my notions on a lot of players here.

basically my assumptions for today would be that kingcod is scum. he must go. i think he has done a lot of contradictions in his posts, i still dont like his no lynch d1, i didnt like his hoopla vote, and i dont like how he appears to be deflecting attention from himself. also to be known... im still not sold on exemption being the actual cop, considering that he has also gone a bit awol, not that i can really judge however considering im working an am out of town more than i thought this summer. i dont think that redtail is scum, and i am in-between with adaham/kyle and me=weird. me -wierd has been providing more content which is nice however, and adaham the opposite until he was replaced. i dont like that adaham went into hiding, but honestly, sometimes rl just takes over, im not willing to accept that alone as a scum tell.

so...people id be willing to lynch today: kingcod
i dont want a lynch on cirno...i think she is town.
with the evidence and the deadline posted...i think kingcod is the only person im truly comfortable with lynching, however, im going to keep my mind open for last minute thoughts and arguments of course. i suppose an adaham/kyle lynch wouldnt kill me, but i dont think its the right way to go. i think im warming up to the idea that mroe and more kyle/adaham is scum, but i think kingcod is the sure lynch, and anything else with the evidence provided, is more of a reach.

[LobsterCatapult]

what? i am voting for king cod! it was my 2nd post this day....unless i didnt do it the right way...

here incase i did it wrong

vote:kingcod

[LobsterCatapult]

omg...ok, so i was wrong, i thought i had my vote on him this entire day!! i must have edited out when i was proofreading one of my posts by accident. ugh >:( well, i guess i can see why i looked scummy by kingcod and redtail now.

@kingcod, your unvote of cirno had nothing to do with my opinion of cirno. i dont really care what you unvoted because i think you are scum, and my vote not being on you sooner is due to my own mistake in thinking i had it on you already, not because i was waiting.

someone before asked me for my suspects and what i thought of cirno specificially and what i thought and i answered them. my opinion of cirno hasn't changed much throughout day except im leaning town, not neutral.

as for regarding why people think im suspecious, i cant blame you, i cant really offer any more back up than i simply had no idea that i didnt actually vote for him. i thought i voted for him first thing, apparently i was mistaken and im kinda annoyed.

[LobsterCatapult]

hey, just saw that day is up. thanks for replacing thor!

i dont have a lot of time to post tonight, i think kyle99/adaham is worth looking into since it was kingcod's vote. im going to go back and reread the last day, but kyle99 and exemption/thor were going to be people that i looked at, also m=w for not voting at all.

[LobsterCatapult]

i think kyle99/adaham is worth looking into since it was kingcod's vote.

And this makes sense because? As a corollary - did you look into Hoopla's vote at the start of Day 2 when he flipped town? Adaham/kyle might be worth looking into, but let's try to do so because you think they are scummy for some reason, not because someone else thought they were scummy.

im going to go back and reread the last day, but kyle99 and exemption/thor were going to be people that i looked at, also m=w for not voting at all.

That's three players, if we discount yourself I presume that you believe Cirno is town? Is there a reason for this?

I look forward to your analysis of your three suspects.

well, hooplas vote was on our dr...and yes it may not make a whole lot of sense, but i'd say its worth looking into because the way kyle99 and cirno have been discussing back and forth, one of them could be scum easily, and for the moment im leaning town on cirno. i think she scumhunted well, and kingcod just seemed scummy to me as well. i also liked how cirno, perhaps unlike me...also went after other players better to promote discussion. this is something i am going to try to employ because with the current scenario we are in, we must be vigilante to find scum. though to be honest, since i was so sure kingcod was scum yesterday, and he wasnt, perhaps i should go against my intuition and look into cirno.

@kyle99, i see that you arent quite satified with my scumhunting from the previous day...i suppose it was because i was so confident that kingcod was scum, but honestly i dont see how thats a particular scum tell. yes, perhaps i had an off day for scumhunting, but i dont see it being a scumtell necessarily.

though, kyle, you bring up an interesting point, one that might be moot however, cirno's predecessor wasnt the best townie, but that doesnt mean that he wasnt town. adaham's previous behavior seemed town, but im going to go back and look through it.

as for m=w, im prolly going to wait and see why he didnt have a vote on anyone d2 before analyzing him in depth.

and as for exemption/thor, i am most likely going to hold off on your analysis for a bit just because you were so recently replaced, i honestly didnt like exemption/adumbro d1, d2 exemption didn't arouse as much suspecion from me. im going to see how you act, because you are coming across almost oppositely as exemption did (as townie), im going to see if this is genuine, or perhaps overcompensating.

[LobsterCatapult]

time has gotten away from me, my thoughts should be up tonight after i get back from work

[LobsterCatapult]

Eight hours since my last post which included a direct question to every player - no other posting.
@Everyone - Lurk less.

@kyle99 - you are aware we're in lylo right now, yes? (aka - why the vote so soon?)

We have 5 people left

. Not LyLo.

Not even MyLo

.

Ah, my bad,

I thought we had one scum left.

unvote

Something I've been tossing over and want your thoughts on kyle, the above two posts have relevant sections in bold.

5 players left. 1 scum.
That puts us in Mylo.
Thoughts?

sorry, my boss made me work till 10 last night, i was too exhausted to really come up with a detailed post.

and well, um...i dont see how we can only have 1 scum left...

1. 7 Vanilla Townspeople, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Goon
2. 6 Vanilla Townspeople, 1 Cop, 2 Mafia Goons
3. 6 Vanilla Townspeople, 1 Doctor, 2 Mafia Goons
4. 5 Vanilla Townspeople, 1 Cop, 1 Doctor, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Goon
i copypasted this, it details the terms of how the game is set up. right now, if you say your claim is legit, with our dr already dead n1, we have to have set up 4. i dont see how we could have lynched a scum and they not be...well...scum. and i dont think mafia would nk one of their own O_o.

if you want my opinion on kyle, i think these two are the only things that are options for his behavior. he is scum trying to trick us that its not lylo and to get some quick votes up. or he is town and he simply forgot how the game is set up.

[LobsterCatapult]

I contemplated this while working on another project and I think that thus far my conclusion is to adjust my scum reads. I'm moving kyle99 lower down my scumdar and moving Lobster up to fill the space kyle just vacated. Lobster is either so painfully newbie that it makes my eyes bleed, or he is putting on an impressive act. Either way he needs more consideration.

I should have time to finish up the rest of my read sometime this evening/early tomorrow.

I would still like my questions addressed.

O__o making peoples eyes bleed? seriously? i just misunderstood your question, i am a bit new to mafia, but geez, i did give an opinion on kyle. i said that he is likely to be one of those following. no i dont think its likely that a town thought there is only 1 scum left, but hey this is newb mafia, ive seen stranger things happen. since we are in this situation, ive been trying to put out all possible angles and see what might be more probable. im sorry if this isn't what you wanted, but hey, at least i answered it.

i think that kyle is scummy. i think it was a clever ruse to try to pile votes on cirno and end the day quickly. like it only takes 3 to lynch right? all he would need is a townie to agree that cirno is scum, and vote, and then his scumbuddy could hammer. ive been reading over the posts from d2, adaham/kyle do a lot of banter with cirno. though their banter created a lot of discussion, it didn't really get anywhere to be scummy to me immediately. at one point adaham thought that it was a possibility that redtail could be scum, and just playing us. i was beginning to think the same of adaham. he seems to be town, but what if he is just a really good mafia player, and duping us all. i didnt really express it much of d2 until the end. i thought that kingcod was scum, and that we could tackle the adaham/cirno banter d3. i also thought it was odd that adaham did kinda just dissapear, like cirno noted, he was active when cirno was on him, but not so much when cirno moved on, and we discussed different people. kyles opening post and vote on cirno i didnt like too much either.

i think cirno is probably town, though she was very adamant about kingcod being scum, so were redtail and i. id like cirno to come in and say what she thinks too. i think she is a good scumhunter just like redtail was. However, it was redtail that said if kingcod flipped town that she'd be one of hte people that he would look into. however, despite of this, i think im going to look into adaham/kyle firstly.

wow just noticed its 2am...i need sleep, i will conclude this tomorrow. after all this, im sorry i havent been very timely with my responses...i could give reasons, but im sure you dont want to hear them. ill try to get my stuff together tomorrow and get back into the swing of things.

[LobsterCatapult]

err, just realized htat cirno already came in and said opinions, sorry cirno, i got confused.

[LobsterCatapult]

hey guys im back, sorry i was away for my friend's 21st birthday shenanigans.

ive skimmed it so far, im going back to reread it now.

[LobsterCatapult]

*sigh* for those who are around, there is stuff to talk about.

@kyle - why do you think scum would want to spearhead a lynch like Cirno did? It's just as likely she was town spearheading as she was scum (and arguably more so). What do you think of me deciding she's fairly likely town?

@Lobster - you appear fairly set on Cirno as town and kyle as scum. How do you feel about Me=Weird as scum? Do you think I'm overlooking something obvious about kyle's scumminess? Do you think my case has any merit whatsoever?

im going to start by addressing this. your predecessors, i found very scummy, adumbro struck me as off, and then exemption was flip flopping on the lynch hoopla i didnt really look after exemption d2 because he did claim cop, but now im not so sure. youre being aggressive and active, which is good for town and helping to get this game jumpstarted, but that could also mean you are scum who fake claimed and are trying to take control of the flow and conversation of the game. i havent read your latest posts, but the probability that you are a cop who fake claimed and are trying to do the opposite of your previous replacement, by being aggressive and by being this active could point to a scum trying to wrap this game up. you are looking kinda scummy. however, despite this, i find kyle a bit more scummy than you. there is the possibility that im looking too far into this and that your playstyles and exemptions/adumbro are just very different.

[LobsterCatapult]

*sigh* for those who are around, there is stuff to talk about.

@kyle - why do you think scum would want to spearhead a lynch like Cirno did? It's just as likely she was town spearheading as she was scum (and arguably more so). What do you think of me deciding she's fairly likely town?

@Lobster - you appear fairly set on Cirno as town and kyle as scum. How do you feel about Me=Weird as scum? Do you think I'm overlooking something obvious about kyle's scumminess? Do you think my case has any merit whatsoever?

im going to start by addressing this. your predecessors, i found very scummy, adumbro struck me as off, and then exemption was flip flopping on the lynch hoopla i didnt really look after exemption d2 because he did claim cop, but now im not so sure. youre being aggressive and active, which is good for town and helping to get this game jumpstarted, but that could also mean you are scum who fake claimed and are trying to take control of the flow and conversation of the game. i havent read your latest posts, but the probability that you are a cop who fake claimed and are trying to do the opposite of your previous replacement, by being aggressive and by being this active could point to a scum trying to wrap this game up. you are looking kinda scummy. however, despite this, i find kyle a bit more scummy than you. there is the possibility that im looking too far into this and that your playstyles and exemptions/adumbro are just very different.

ugh, i just realized i misread this. im a total fail. anyway, i think me=wierd could be scum, but id like to see him come in and post a bit more, its possible that i missed something of his earlier, but i think that going after him to post is a good idea, we can figure out a better read on him the more he posts. he is kinda neutral right now. i mean, this game has been going on a long time, he could just be a bored townie ,or he could be lurking scum. i think that to get a good read on him, he should post his opinions soon. the more he continues to lurk, the more scummy he gets, however, i think that kyle and you at this point are a better target.

i think you are possibily overlooking what kyle said about the 1 scum left, and his actions d2. i think perhaps if you looked into him, you could reconsider him being scum. i didnt like his opening vote on cirno, i dont like him now trying to pass off only having 1 scum in the game.

[LobsterCatapult]

i think you are possibily overlooking what kyle said about the 1 scum left, and his actions d2. i think perhaps if you looked into him, you could reconsider him being scum. i didnt like his opening vote on cirno, i dont like him now trying to pass off only having 1 scum in the game.

I have changed my stance on kyle, you'll find it as you read up and kyle isn't actively trying to sell town on their only being one scum - that was settled roughly two posts after he even made the statement.

I agree with your read that I have a different playstyle then my predecessors.

Why do you think Cirno is town?

i realized this after i posted it and then forgot to follow up.

well, d2 i thought that cirno was town based on her scumhunting and gut. yes, that may not be the best strategy, but also with her interactions with adaham/kyle. i like her scumhunt on kingcod. and yes, this may seem silly considering that he ended up town, but she had a solid case, and i like her logic and her strategy. that being said, kingcod ended up scum. it could be that she is just a very good player, and out to sink town. this seemed to be redtail's point, but i see this peculiar since he was also after kingcod with just as much fervor it seems, so its possible that both redtail and cirno are town on the kingcod lynch, and that kyle is scum on it. this is where the gut comes in, and her activity and attention to detail. i just dont think that scum would be stirring the pot this much, and provoking adaham/kyle d2, brining up this much discussion, and going after you on d3. i know that looking back, ray appeared scummy, but ive seen town be kinda useless to town. also looking back, i realized im the only original player left on the roster. since i havent been relying on replacements of such to rely on opinions for cirno, perhaps i should try to see you more as a tabula raza and really look back into your posts without much bias.

also, idk... about scum teams... i usually like trying to find scum individually, ive usually been terrible about finding scum by how they act towards each other, i just see wifom everywhere. right now i see kyle as scummy. im leaning scum on you...me=weird is still kinda neutral. ill address his post next. but, its probably time for me to look back over this day and really break down whats going on before i try to make a solid opinion on you.

@me=weird, nice to see you post some opinions, ill comment on those tomorrow when i have more time.

[LobsterCatapult]

Right now, I feel certain cirno is town, kyle is scum, and I can't decide whether it's thor or lobster who's the other scum. Probably lobster. Here's a bit of a case on kyle.
Says he "didn't like lobster at the start of day 2" without elaborating at all.
Apparently the scummiest thing in the game was rayfrost active lurking.
Thor, do feel complaining about losing the doc is a scum-tell? The rest of us have made our thoughts on that clear.
kyle said "If we lynch kingcod today and he flips town, can we lynch cirno tomorrow?". This gives me the following questions to kyle:
You seemed as if you knew he would flip town. Why?
What would you have done if kingcod had been scum?
Votes right off the bat in LyLo, and seems to know it with "Cirno is scum and LobsterCatapult is his partner." apparently he isn't worried about quick-hammers.
5 people is LyLo with 2 scum.
Oh, you thought there was one scum left. Not what it looked like a couple posts ago. Yes, I know this has been called out already, but I have to include in any case on him.
Does anyone else feel cirno was tunnelling on king with "Crap reasons"? I feel they were okay reasons.
How is "Correct." a response to "Show me where I label you as obvious scum as opposed to utterly incompetent."?
GAh! Yes, he unvoted immediately, but what part of "It's LyLo, don't vote" don't you understand, kyle?
Is the extent of you lobster suspicion that she isn't as scum-hunting as the rest of us(Me not included in the "us", I don't think)?
So you saw the other post at you, and didn't notice any that were like, on the page?
Why do you rush to disagree with thor? And possible town motives are setting up an accidental bandwagon for a unknowing townie to hop, and partner to hammer for the win.
This is a strange post. I've tried and failed to comprehend it.
The lie is that you first seemed to (correctly) think there were 2 scum left, and then changed to thinking there's 1 scum left. It's scummy for potentially causing misinformation.

Thus ends my case. Oh, and lobster, I'm not a bored townie or lurking scum. I'm a recovering from sickness townie.

why probably me? IF kyle and i were a scum team, why would be spend so much time bussing me and vice versa? woudln't kyle's energies be best spent elsewhere? im confused on this point. and im also sorry youve been sick, that being said, im still perplexed why i might be scum if you think kyle is the other scum.

im glad youve shown up to share your points, but i dont get your arguement against me.

@thor, the reason im neutral about me=weird is because he isnt the most vocal here, and i dont have the best read on him because of this. im apprehensive about a lynch on him because we are in lylo, and this lynch is important. i feel more comfortable placing my vote on kyle at this point than m=w. however, you do have a point, we all seem to not have the best read on m=w, not that this makes me not want to place him into a catagory of either scum or town, but im just not as comfortable as i am with other players here. i, gut-wise, just don't know how to feel about him. i feel like m=w makes contribution, but he isnt the strongest opinion in this game.

@kyle, im sorry if im not very clear. i need to work on being more concise and not write in such ridiculous sentence structure.

[LobsterCatapult]

Town is sorta screwed. This is all from my personal standpoint btw:

Kyle: Not scum.
Cirno: Scum. Thor won't lynch, so not possible.
Me=Weird: Not scum.
LobsterCatapult: Scum.
Thor: Not scum.

@Thor/Me=Weird: Would you be willing to vote Lobster Catapult today?

perhaps i missed this...but, why are you so sure that im scum? i dont remember seeing the case built up against me. i also dont remember you thinking im scum d2 when you replaced, but its possible i missed it. right now, looking back, maybe your cases against me and cirno are just trying to deflect attn off your scum mistake of lylo onto me and cirno, especially since i didnt really like you when you replaced, and dont like you now. also, asking for votes? really? it comes across as forced. like, if you want to vote for me, fine. you already did before, but you asking for votes just seems like scum scrambling to try to get a quick lynch.

@thor, i promised to look over your posts....i shall tomorrow.