Newbie 955 - Game over

[Cirno]

(No vote) Thor665, Me=Weird, LobsterCatapult, Cirno, kyle99
5 alive; 3 votes lynch. Day ends 3 August UTC.

What are you getting at with all this?

I'm arguing with you in order to see how you respond and form an opinion. In order to do that, I have to attack things you say. I'm not trying to make any point in particular or convince anyone of your guilt. This is just how I play.

Do you still believe that if I am town Me=Weird is scum? Do you believe I or Me=Weird is scum currently?

Yes to both. My opinion that one of you is scum is not going to change, because I believe Kyle is scum and Lobster is town.

Why did I ask if my reasoning was correct when I made it?

The problem is that you repeated it after I listed two points with more information and then claimed that it was not a misrep because the remaining posts were not worth mentioning.

Why did I request your reads from you initially and only do the misrep iso when requested to?

You requested the reads because you wanted to know, you did the misrep because the opportunity arose.

Why did I repeatedly ask where I was going wrong?

I don't know, seeing as I've explained what was wrong with your summary repeatedly.

Why am I going through all this effort to try to understand where you're coming from?

Rather, I would argue that you are going through effort to discredit my arguments rather than see where I am coming from.

Note that I'm not certain you are scum. I would not even be willing to vote you at the moment (even if we were to disregard Kyle). Those questions call for those kinds of answers and I am the kind of person that is compelled to respond to such questions.

As per my last post on the subject. Town. Do you think I should have changed it for some reason?

Your last post is irrelevant to the question as I am asking what your opinion is at this moment. I'm asking because I think your attitude is odd if you believe me to be town.

What is your current read on Me=Weird, and why won't you just give me a straight answer on it?

I've answered several times, both on my current read and on my day 2 read.

I think that if you are town, Me=Weird is scum.

You are referring to the "If you are town, he is scum" line? It only means that I believe that one of you is scum. I've not made up my mind yet

I believed that Me=Weird may or may not be scum. He was less suspicious than Kingcod or Kyle, but more suspicious than Redtail or Lobster (for more detailed suspicions, see my posts on day 2). I believed that if Exemption made it into lylo in a situation where the lynch could go any which way, then it is unlikely that he is the cop.

You don't need to infer anything, because I told you directly that I considered Me=Weird "less suspicious than Kingcod or Kyle,more suspicious than Redtail or Lobster". The "refer to my day 2 posts" was in reply to the "why do you have that read" part of your question.

[Thor665]

Why did I ask if my reasoning was correct when I made it?

The problem is that you repeated it after I listed two points with more information and then claimed that it was not a misrep because the remaining posts were not worth mentioning.

??? You lost me here.

Why did I request your reads from you initially and only do the misrep iso when requested to?

You requested the reads because you wanted to know, you did the misrep because the opportunity arose.

Okaaaay.

Why did I repeatedly ask where I was going wrong?

I don't know, seeing as I've explained what was wrong with your summary repeatedly.

Not explicitly though, which is what I kept driving for.

Why am I going through all this effort to try to understand where you're coming from?

Rather, I would argue that you are going through effort to discredit my arguments rather than see where I am coming from.

There is a difference between disagreeing with your case and discrediting it. You asked me to respond to your case, I didn't "attack" it with my opinions until requested. I suppose that was just me being opportunistic again. ::shrug:: I could just as easily claim you're attempting to "discredit" my reads instead of seeing where I'm coming from. People disagree in this game on many tells I've discovered.

I'm asking because I think your attitude is odd if you believe me to be town.

How so?

What is your current read on Me=Weird, and why won't you just give me a straight answer on it?

I've answered several times, both on my current read and on my day 2 read.

Your last post is irrelevant to the question as I am asking what your opinion is at this moment.

Specifically what do you think of my issues with Me=Weird?

[kyle99]

But I wasn't even thinking about the number of scum in my first post. The day started, and I said I thought Cirno was scum and LobsterCatapult was her partner. My "Ah, my bad, I thought we had one scum left" post was in reply to my post incorrectly stating that it wasn't LyLo, not my original post.

The point is that in one post you thought there were two scum, and in the other you thought there was one. What happened in between to confuse you?

No. In one post, I thought Cirno was scum, Lobster was scummy, and voted Cirno. The idea of the amount of scum, possible LyLo didn't even register in my mind. In the second post, you said it was LyLo. I, being stupid and failing at mafia, forgot that we hadn't yet killed scum yet, and said that we weren't at LyLo yet. Thor corrected me. End of story. Please explain where this "lie" is and how it's scummy.

[Cirno]

??? You lost me here.

It should say two

posts

.

There is a difference between disagreeing with your case and discrediting it. You asked me to respond to your case, I didn't "attack" it with my opinions until requested. I suppose that was just me being opportunistic again. ::shrug:: I could just as easily claim you're attempting to "discredit" my reads instead of seeing where I'm coming from. People disagree in this game on many tells I've discovered.

...I'm talking about our little argument about my day 2 reads on Me=Weird, not anything to do with kyle.

How so?

This isn't an important point but, essentially, I believe that if you are town in lylo, and you think a certain player is also town, you don't do things that can only turn them against you.

Your last post is irrelevant to the question as I am asking what your opinion is at this moment.

It is not irrelevant because you claimed that I hadn't given a straight answer to your question. My quotes demonstrate that I have.
My read is this: Lobster is town. Kyle is scum. Thor is likely scum. Me=Weird may be scum.

Specifically what do you think of my issues with Me=Weird?

Are you asking if I agree with them? Glancing through your iso, I found the following

His ISO is a mess, he's lurked the whole game, and he's been preceded by the very scummy Valk.

Valk was scummy, as is Me=Weird, plus his V/LA feels strategic as does his initial kyle or Cirno suspicion post

I think more is needed before suggesting a Me=Weird lynch. I disagree about Valkyrie being 'very scummy'. I am not willing to accept the timing of a v/la as evidence of guilt. I agree that Me=Weird is scummy, but I think your suspicions are a bit simple. Further, my opinions are colored by the distrust I hold towards you.

Also, I want to clarify my "I would not even be willing to vote you at the moment" comment. This does not mean I would vote Me=Weird over Thor, only that I am not certain enough to vote either way at the moment.

I'll reply to Kyle in the morning. Yes, I realize that his post wasn't addressed to me. But no post by Kyle can be allowed to go unpunished (even those ones I seem to have ignored).

[Thor665]

...I'm talking about our little argument about my day 2 reads on Me=Weird, not anything to do with kyle.

Okay, I don't think I attempted to discredit them at all then - I certainly didn't take any of your suspicions of him at any time and suggest they were weak like I did with the kyle case. I was still trying to even get your Me=Weird case out of you. Where do you think I tried to discredit your reads on Me=Weird?

essentially, I believe that if you are town in lylo, and you think a certain player is also town, you don't do things that can only turn them against you.

1. Kowtowing isn't a town tell.
2. Disagreeing isn't a scum tell.
3. Would I do this as scum? (if the answer is no, and since your answer for town is no, then you have established this as a null tell)

My read is this: Lobster is town. Kyle is scum. Thor is likely scum. Me=Weird may be scum.

Thank you.

Why am I scummier then Me=Weird (or why is Me=Weird more likely town, if you prefer)

Specifically what do you think of my issues with Me=Weird?

Are you asking if I agree with them? Glancing through your iso, I found the following

OMG you ignored my early posts where I noted scum tells on Valk, u R the misrepping scummorz!

In more seriousness; I noted in my early read through posts some issues with Valk - you don't think Valk is 'very scummy', how do you rate Valk overall then?
What is your opinion of Weird's replace in. He promised isos a few times, never delivered, and floated into voting. I see active lurk, what do you see?

Further, my opinions are colored by the distrust I hold towards you.

Insomuch as since you think I'm scum then you think Me=Weird has to be town since I'm attacking him? If you're so uncertain of me as to start wanting to clear people I attack why are you still unsure about the Me=Weird/Thor interaction as to who is scum?

Why aren't you voting kyle again? A lot of your current actions appear to be based off an assurance he is scum. I can't imagine why you wouldn't want a vote on him in that case.

[LobsterCatapult]

hey guys im back, sorry i was away for my friend's 21st birthday shenanigans.

ive skimmed it so far, im going back to reread it now.

[LobsterCatapult]

*sigh* for those who are around, there is stuff to talk about.

@kyle - why do you think scum would want to spearhead a lynch like Cirno did? It's just as likely she was town spearheading as she was scum (and arguably more so). What do you think of me deciding she's fairly likely town?

@Lobster - you appear fairly set on Cirno as town and kyle as scum. How do you feel about Me=Weird as scum? Do you think I'm overlooking something obvious about kyle's scumminess? Do you think my case has any merit whatsoever?

im going to start by addressing this. your predecessors, i found very scummy, adumbro struck me as off, and then exemption was flip flopping on the lynch hoopla i didnt really look after exemption d2 because he did claim cop, but now im not so sure. youre being aggressive and active, which is good for town and helping to get this game jumpstarted, but that could also mean you are scum who fake claimed and are trying to take control of the flow and conversation of the game. i havent read your latest posts, but the probability that you are a cop who fake claimed and are trying to do the opposite of your previous replacement, by being aggressive and by being this active could point to a scum trying to wrap this game up. you are looking kinda scummy. however, despite this, i find kyle a bit more scummy than you. there is the possibility that im looking too far into this and that your playstyles and exemptions/adumbro are just very different.

[LobsterCatapult]

*sigh* for those who are around, there is stuff to talk about.

@kyle - why do you think scum would want to spearhead a lynch like Cirno did? It's just as likely she was town spearheading as she was scum (and arguably more so). What do you think of me deciding she's fairly likely town?

@Lobster - you appear fairly set on Cirno as town and kyle as scum. How do you feel about Me=Weird as scum? Do you think I'm overlooking something obvious about kyle's scumminess? Do you think my case has any merit whatsoever?

im going to start by addressing this. your predecessors, i found very scummy, adumbro struck me as off, and then exemption was flip flopping on the lynch hoopla i didnt really look after exemption d2 because he did claim cop, but now im not so sure. youre being aggressive and active, which is good for town and helping to get this game jumpstarted, but that could also mean you are scum who fake claimed and are trying to take control of the flow and conversation of the game. i havent read your latest posts, but the probability that you are a cop who fake claimed and are trying to do the opposite of your previous replacement, by being aggressive and by being this active could point to a scum trying to wrap this game up. you are looking kinda scummy. however, despite this, i find kyle a bit more scummy than you. there is the possibility that im looking too far into this and that your playstyles and exemptions/adumbro are just very different.

ugh, i just realized i misread this. im a total fail. anyway, i think me=wierd could be scum, but id like to see him come in and post a bit more, its possible that i missed something of his earlier, but i think that going after him to post is a good idea, we can figure out a better read on him the more he posts. he is kinda neutral right now. i mean, this game has been going on a long time, he could just be a bored townie ,or he could be lurking scum. i think that to get a good read on him, he should post his opinions soon. the more he continues to lurk, the more scummy he gets, however, i think that kyle and you at this point are a better target.

i think you are possibily overlooking what kyle said about the 1 scum left, and his actions d2. i think perhaps if you looked into him, you could reconsider him being scum. i didnt like his opening vote on cirno, i dont like him now trying to pass off only having 1 scum in the game.

[Thor665]

i think you are possibily overlooking what kyle said about the 1 scum left, and his actions d2. i think perhaps if you looked into him, you could reconsider him being scum. i didnt like his opening vote on cirno, i dont like him now trying to pass off only having 1 scum in the game.

I have changed my stance on kyle, you'll find it as you read up and kyle isn't actively trying to sell town on their only being one scum - that was settled roughly two posts after he even made the statement.

I agree with your read that I have a different playstyle then my predecessors.

Why do you think Cirno is town?

[Cirno]

1. Kowtowing isn't a town tell.
2. Disagreeing isn't a scum tell.
3. Would I do this as scum? (if the answer is no, and since your answer for town is no, then you have established this as a null tell)

It is not about kowtowing. Rather than disagreeing, it was more of the manner of disagreeing and attitude. This isn't something worth arguing over. I find your attitude odd. I told you why. That is all.

Why am I scummier then Me=Weird (or why is Me=Weird more likely town, if you prefer)

You are more scummy because of the kyle tell, the claimed cop in lylo bit, and the opinion I formed from your interaction with me.

In more seriousness; I noted in my early read through posts some issues with Valk - you don't think Valk is 'very scummy', how do you rate Valk overall then?
What is your opinion of Weird's replace in. He promised isos a few times, never delivered, and floated into voting. I see active lurk, what do you see?

I didn't read the pbpa because it was a pbpa. I read Valkyrie as newbie town. My problems with slot come exclusively from Me=Weird. The issues with the isos and the vote are fine, but I don't care about the active lurking.

Insomuch as since you think I'm scum then you think Me=Weird has to be town since I'm attacking him? If you're so uncertain of me as to start wanting to clear people I attack why are you still unsure about the Me=Weird/Thor interaction as to who is scum?

I haven't cleared Me=Weird and to claim such is disingenuous (<--my favorite word). I don't think Me=Weird has to be town, hence I've continued to label him as scum. I distrust your intentions, and so I won't put any faith into your attacks. But your attacks do not clear Me=Weird in any way.

Why aren't you voting kyle again? A lot of your current actions appear to be based off an assurance he is scum. I can't imagine why you wouldn't want a vote on him in that case.

"Because believing one person to be scum does not mean I should not look for others." Essentially, I'm not ready to end the day.

[Thor665]

You are more scummy because of the kyle tell, the claimed cop in lylo bit, and the opinion I formed from your interaction with me.

Being cop in lylo with a proven Doc in the game is no more or less scummy then being vanilla in lylo. Other then that I get you.

The issues with the isos and the vote are fine, but I don't care about the active lurking.

The iso and the votes leads to the conclusion of active lurking. It's not as if they are three tells, they are two tells and a conclusion. The fact you are taking my two tells as acceptable and also saying that you think it's possible that Me=Weird is scum is basic acceptance of the case as I presented it. What's your specific issue with me calling it active lurking?

I haven't cleared Me=Weird and to claim such is disingenuous (<--my favorite word).

Of course I'm being disingenuous, I think that's pretty obvious. The point?

"Because believing one person to be scum does not mean I should not look for others." Essentially, I'm not ready to end the day.

Are you afraid that the remaining two town will quickhammer if you vote scum? How will voting scum end the day exactly?

[Cirno]

What's your specific issue with me calling it active lurking?

To me they are different issues. His failure to deliver his isos and his vote are suspect. But the commenting on what other people do without actually anything to the discussion (active lurking) is common newbie behavior, town or scum.

Of course I'm being disingenuous, I think that's pretty obvious. The point?

If I don't say that is disingenuous, someone might believe that it isn't and I would rather have Lobster's trust than yours at the moment (assuming lobster or me=weird will actually show up and read the thread).

Are you afraid that the remaining two town will quickhammer if you vote scum? How will voting scum end the day exactly?

Well, you suspect Kyle and may or may not vote him. Me=Weird has shown a tendency to do whatever everyone else is doing. Lobster has shown suspicions of kyle as well. At this point, I don't doubt that Kyle's partner is willing to vote him. If I want the day to continue, then the best way to do that is to not vote and attack anyone who does.

[Cirno]

Also, stop having a new post every time I check the board.

[Me=Weird]

Right now, I feel certain cirno is town, kyle is scum, and I can't decide whether it's thor or lobster who's the other scum. Probably lobster. Here's a bit of a case on kyle.
Says he "didn't like lobster at the start of day 2" without elaborating at all.
Apparently the scummiest thing in the game was rayfrost active lurking.
Thor, do feel complaining about losing the doc is a scum-tell? The rest of us have made our thoughts on that clear.
kyle said "If we lynch kingcod today and he flips town, can we lynch cirno tomorrow?". This gives me the following questions to kyle:
You seemed as if you knew he would flip town. Why?
What would you have done if kingcod had been scum?
Votes right off the bat in LyLo, and seems to know it with "Cirno is scum and LobsterCatapult is his partner." apparently he isn't worried about quick-hammers.
5 people is LyLo with 2 scum.
Oh, you thought there was one scum left. Not what it looked like a couple posts ago. Yes, I know this has been called out already, but I have to include in any case on him.
Does anyone else feel cirno was tunnelling on king with "Crap reasons"? I feel they were okay reasons.
How is "Correct." a response to "Show me where I label you as obvious scum as opposed to utterly incompetent."?
GAh! Yes, he unvoted immediately, but what part of "It's LyLo, don't vote" don't you understand, kyle?
Is the extent of you lobster suspicion that she isn't as scum-hunting as the rest of us(Me not included in the "us", I don't think)?
So you saw the other post at you, and didn't notice any that were like, on the page?
Why do you rush to disagree with thor? And possible town motives are setting up an accidental bandwagon for a unknowing townie to hop, and partner to hammer for the win.
This is a strange post. I've tried and failed to comprehend it.
The lie is that you first seemed to (correctly) think there were 2 scum left, and then changed to thinking there's 1 scum left. It's scummy for potentially causing misinformation.

Thus ends my case. Oh, and lobster, I'm not a bored townie or lurking scum. I'm a recovering from sickness townie.

[Thor665]

Of course I'm being disingenuous, I think that's pretty obvious. The point?

If I don't say that is disingenuous, someone might believe that it isn't and I would rather have Lobster's trust than yours at the moment (assuming lobster or me=weird will actually show up and read the thread).

I don't see how me playing dumb and you not calling me on it will make Lobster or Me=Weird not trust you. ::shrug:: Meh.

Interesting suspect groupings (listing of scumpairs is in order or presumed preference for lynch);

I say scum is - Me=Weird/kyle
Cirno and Lobster say - kyle/Thor or Me=Weird (and Cirno says Me=Weird copies stuff without noticing Lobster's play today, )
Me=Weird says - kyle/Thor or Lobster
kyle says - Cirno/Lobster

Evidence appears to support Cirno as town unless Lobster is her buddy, doesn't look like she can be paired with anyone else. Kyle is almost assuredly scum or is the chosen mislynch of the day and the scumteam is amongst Cirno/Lobster/Me=Weird. If kyle is scum he's being bussed now, I personally find Me=Weird's shift from 'scum is

either

kyle

or

Cirno' to 'Cirno is town and kyle is scum' the most suspect shifting (though it plays into my beliefs already stated, so of course it makes sense to me).

@Kyle, everyone else has town read on Cirno but you; what up wit dat?

@Me=Weird - when and what made Cirno town in your eyes?

Thor, do feel complaining about losing the doc is a scum-tell? The rest of us have made our thoughts on that clear.

I do not consider it a very strong tell. I actually disagree that it's less applicable in Newbie games then regular games (somebody claimed this, I think t'was kingcod). I personally do not use the tell, which is either the cause or the effect of me finding it weak in this game. Wasn't it Lobster who did this? Lobster is so newbie it hurts my left kneecap - I think he would say something like that just to try to contribute something.

Does anyone else feel cirno was tunnelling on king with "Smurf reasons"? I feel they were okay reasons.

I think she has a tunneling personality, and that it's pretty obvious. Do you not think she does? I also didn't find her case to be made of win and chocolate, but kingcod was not an unreasonable lynch yesterday and was certainly a better one then the hoopla lynch Day 1. I consider her method and nature of the case to overall feel more townish then scummy. I do agree it was a weak case and am a little surprised it sailed without other people adding better reasoning - but that looks worse for them then for her in my opinion.

Why do you think her reasons were good?

[kyle99]

@Kyle, everyone else has town read on Cirno but you; what up wit dat?

I assure you, if I was scum, I could find a much better town target to go after than Cirno.

[Thor665]

I've considered (and said) as much. That said, it's not exactly like your case is as sweet as pecan pie. I asked you a question earlier about why you thought it was a scum action that she spearheaded the kingcod case as opposed to a town action. You haven't commented on that yet to my recollection.

What's your read on Me=Weird? Why do you think Lobster is more likely the scumbuddy to scum Cirno?

[Cirno]

Just checking in. I'll be back tomorrow.

[LobsterCatapult]

i think you are possibily overlooking what kyle said about the 1 scum left, and his actions d2. i think perhaps if you looked into him, you could reconsider him being scum. i didnt like his opening vote on cirno, i dont like him now trying to pass off only having 1 scum in the game.

I have changed my stance on kyle, you'll find it as you read up and kyle isn't actively trying to sell town on their only being one scum - that was settled roughly two posts after he even made the statement.

I agree with your read that I have a different playstyle then my predecessors.

Why do you think Cirno is town?

i realized this after i posted it and then forgot to follow up.

well, d2 i thought that cirno was town based on her scumhunting and gut. yes, that may not be the best strategy, but also with her interactions with adaham/kyle. i like her scumhunt on kingcod. and yes, this may seem silly considering that he ended up town, but she had a solid case, and i like her logic and her strategy. that being said, kingcod ended up scum. it could be that she is just a very good player, and out to sink town. this seemed to be redtail's point, but i see this peculiar since he was also after kingcod with just as much fervor it seems, so its possible that both redtail and cirno are town on the kingcod lynch, and that kyle is scum on it. this is where the gut comes in, and her activity and attention to detail. i just dont think that scum would be stirring the pot this much, and provoking adaham/kyle d2, brining up this much discussion, and going after you on d3. i know that looking back, ray appeared scummy, but ive seen town be kinda useless to town. also looking back, i realized im the only original player left on the roster. since i havent been relying on replacements of such to rely on opinions for cirno, perhaps i should try to see you more as a tabula raza and really look back into your posts without much bias.

also, idk... about scum teams... i usually like trying to find scum individually, ive usually been terrible about finding scum by how they act towards each other, i just see wifom everywhere. right now i see kyle as scummy. im leaning scum on you...me=weird is still kinda neutral. ill address his post next. but, its probably time for me to look back over this day and really break down whats going on before i try to make a solid opinion on you.

@me=weird, nice to see you post some opinions, ill comment on those tomorrow when i have more time.

[kyle99]

i think you are possibily overlooking what kyle said about the 1 scum left, and his actions d2. i think perhaps if you looked into him, you could reconsider him being scum. i didnt like his opening vote on cirno, i dont like him now trying to pass off only having 1 scum in the game.

I have changed my stance on kyle, you'll find it as you read up and kyle isn't actively trying to sell town on their only being one scum - that was settled roughly two posts after he even made the statement.

I agree with your read that I have a different playstyle then my predecessors.

Why do you think Cirno is town?

i realized this after i posted it and then forgot to follow up.

well, d2 i thought that cirno was town based on her scumhunting and gut. yes, that may not be the best strategy, but also with her interactions with adaham/kyle. i like her scumhunt on kingcod. and yes, this may seem silly considering that he ended up town, but she had a solid case, and i like her logic and her strategy. that being said, kingcod ended up scum. it could be that she is just a very good player, and out to sink town. this seemed to be redtail's point, but i see this peculiar since he was also after kingcod with just as much fervor it seems, so its possible that both redtail and cirno are town on the kingcod lynch, and that kyle is scum on it. this is where the gut comes in, and her activity and attention to detail. i just dont think that scum would be stirring the pot this much, and provoking adaham/kyle d2, brining up this much discussion, and going after you on d3. i know that looking back, ray appeared scummy, but ive seen town be kinda useless to town. also looking back, i realized im the only original player left on the roster. since i havent been relying on replacements of such to rely on opinions for cirno, perhaps i should try to see you more as a tabula raza and really look back into your posts without much bias.

also, idk... about scum teams... i usually like trying to find scum individually, ive usually been terrible about finding scum by how they act towards each other, i just see wifom everywhere. right now i see kyle as scummy. im leaning scum on you...me=weird is still kinda neutral. ill address his post next. but, its probably time for me to look back over this day and really break down whats going on before i try to make a solid opinion on you.

@me=weird, nice to see you post some opinions, ill comment on those tomorrow when i have more time.

wtfamireading.jpg.

[Thor665]

A quick translation of Lobster for you kyle;

Cirno is town because she's active and presses cases.
Thor needs to be looked at again (he may or may not be admitting some bias from Cirno as regards his read on me)
kyle is scummy, Thor is probably scummy, Me=Weird is neutral, he needs to read Thor again.
WIll comment on Me=Weird tomorrow.
===================================================================================

@kyle - any specific issues with Lobster's commentary other then his difficulty in writing clearly? Also, still waiting to hear your call on Me=Weird.

@Lobster - It's lylo, why a neutral read on Me=Weird? I'm actually rather bewildered how many neutral/mild reads everyone seems to have on him.

[kyle99]

Lobster's reasons for thinking Cirno is town is absolutely crap. Which, considering I think both of them are scum and Lobster's general lack of mafia experience, makes sense.

My opinion in my ISO of Me=Weird is slightly over the town line, as his cases were pretty bad and he's done some intense lurking so far, but I won't settle for a lynch of anyone other than Cirno or maybe Lobster if it's absolutely necessary.

[Thor665]

@kyle - why do you think scum would want to spearhead a lynch like Cirno did? It's just as likely she was town spearheading as she was scum (and arguably more so). What do you think of me deciding she's fairly likely town?

I still don't think I've gotten an answer to this, would still like it. To be honest I'd rather have you address the first sentence moreso then your read on my Cirno read, though if you want to address that as well then more power to you.

Scummiest thing I can really peg on Cirno is her belief that you're 100% scum paired with her odd unwillingness to vote you. I've played with someone who used this as a scumtell before and claims 100% accuracy with it (over something like 2-3 instances, whoop-de-doo), but I do agree the mindset is odd. What are your thoughts on this as a scumtell for Cirno?

Also, what do you think of Me=Weird going from 'scum is either kyle or Cirno' to his new stance of 'Cirno is town, kyle is scum with Thor/Lobster'?

Speaking of...We need more Me=Weird and less Me=Lurking in this thread. If the bubonic death plague hasn't killed you yet I'd like to hear a bit more chatter from you concerning current events.

[Me=Weird]

Why are lobster's reasons for thinking cirno is town "absolutely crap"? Please don't just say things without the slightest bit of reasoning. Are my cases bad because one of them is on you? Same response as above. And what do you mean by "intense lurking"? I treat this game the same as I do with all my games. And I believe thor asked why you think lobster is more likely scum than me.
Thor, what do you mean by me "going from 'scum is either kyle or Cirno' to his new stance of 'Cirno is town, kyle is scum with Thor/Lobster'"? I said either kyle or cirno is scum, when I posted, I made clear I believe cirno is town, kyle is scum. So? I said "either" as in, I don't think they're the same alignment. I don't get this. And I'm not just posting because you want me to, I actually had to revise my post I was about to put up to respond to you.

Mod: V/LA tomorrow.

[Thor665]

New stance insomuch as you went from scum is either A or B to scum is A and B is town.

Between your two posts, what convinced you of your new reads?