Newbie 955 - Game over

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Post Post #350 (ISO) » Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:33 am

Post by redtail896 »

kingcod (3) Cirno, redtail896, Adaham
Cirno (2) kingcod, Me=Weird
Me=Weird (1) Exemption
(No vote) LobsterCatapult
7 alive; 4 votes lynch.

So, my current project in this game is to obtain an understanding of the case against Cirno. Here's kingcod's summary of the case:
kingcod wrote:Why has Cirno played like this?
- Chose an easy target as I have been mentioned previously
- Was determined to show drive and determination in getting his man following his first prophetic post a week ago
- But waited a week to see how warmly his rickety ISO would be received. Promised it Sunday and delivered it Tuesday ... after redtail chose to vote on me thus giving him a respectable ally (Redtail is town)

Cirno's objective is to whack another townie since I consider Cirno scum for the above 3 points. More scummy than Adaham, who may or may not be part of the team.
Let's break this down by point:
1. Yes, she certainly did choose an easy target. No argument here. In fact, kingcod was arguably the easiest target available at the start of day 2. There existed a ready base of people willing to vote for him (myself included obviously) that other targets didn't really have. The other candidate for an easy target would probably be Exemption, but that line might've had a whole mess of problems. Also, many elements of the kingcod case had already been expressed D1. So if Cirno is scum, then she certainly picked a nice, relatively easy target, one that had already been attacked by respectable other players (Equinox, Adaham, etc.). All that being said though, I don't think it makes the case against kingcod any less logical or potent. I'm still highly suspicious of kingcod, and I don't feel that Cirno has been particularly unfair in his attacks.

2. This is simply a playstyle matter. Cirno seems to be the type to hone in on somebody and attack them tirelessly if she thinks they are scum. In short, I think she demonstrated something that already clearly existed. I don't think she misrepresented herself.

3. Point 3 is interesting, but I think it ultimately falls. It seems to be based on the idea that Cirno was unwilling to attack kingcod unless she was assured of support, and my vote provided that potential backup to make her look respectable. The problem with this is that Cirno came out of the gate swinging against kingcod. Witness:
Cirno wrote:I don't feel like writing too much right now, so here is where I stand. Kingcod is scum. He just is. I'm going to try to get him lynched, so expect a case against him within a day or two. Another good lynch is Exemption. At the moment, I am unlikely to vote for anyone but one of these two.
She also voted kingcod in her very next post, before I voted. In short, she had already committed to the kingcod pursuit.

Me=Weird's case is harder to get a handle on; it mostly comprises comments made in 1/2 a dozen different posts (with practically no case in the voting post). Here's what I understand to be the gist of it (please correct any wrong assumptions or assertions that I'm making Me=Weird):
1. Cirno promised a case in her first post and failed to deliver for quite some time
2. Cirno will not approach the question of Exemption: Cop or Scum
3. Kingcod is playing better, leading Me=Weird to think kingcod is more likely to be town, making the vicious attack against kingcod suspicious.

I find all 3 of these points questionable at best, both in their statements of fact and whether or not they are scumtells. Point 1 is not really a scumtell in my book, and the scumminess of it I think was defeated in my response above. Point 2 is patently false (granted, it wasn't really false when Me=Weird first raised it, but it certainly was by the time he voted). Point 3 is subjective at best, but I'm not sure it really leads to a suspicion of Cirno anyway. Adaham and I both have votes on kingcod and have attacked him; where are your suspicions of us?

Whew. Sorry, that ended up being a bit longer than I intended.
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Post Post #351 (ISO) » Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:17 am

Post by kingcod »

@Me=Weird - re. 'Why do you address me?' - sorry my mistake - it was Exemption and RedTail who thought my 'doom and gloom' post was too, er, doom and gloom.

@Cirno - re. ignoring Adaham

I didn't get that feeling from the text you quoted above but from this instead:
cirno wrote:you must answer my questions or admit that you had no reason to suggest that Adaham and I were scumbuddies and little reason to suspect Adaham at all
Sorry I didn't make that clear.

I'll answer your three questions:
cirno wrote:1.What led you to believe that Adaham is more likely scum than the other players (other than me)?
I explained here:
kingcod wrote:LobsterCatapult - generally supportive play. Answers questions, keeps the game moving and looks at a range of options rather than narrowing in too much. Has a town feel
Exemption - Neutral to town read. The cop claim I would still like to think is a newbie town slip, since its even worse newbie scum play (sorry Exemption!).
RedTail896 - methodical and throrough. Sticks to his guns but has hunted widely.
Me=Weird - a rocky road through Valkyrie and now MW ... a null to town read but nothing jumping out as scum

So this leaves me with Adaham and Cirno. Adaham has been in and out of the scumzone, and could have collaborated with Cirno/RayFrost to split their votes between Exemption and Equinox, leaving town to fumble about stringing up Hoopla.
cirno wrote:2.What lead you to believe the argument between Adaham and I was scum motivated.
I explained here:
kingcod wrote:Adaham's enormous dissection of Cirno and Cirno's feisty response could be one giant puppet show for the benefit of town to show how distanced they are from each other. Despite all their mutual disrespect and trash talk neither of them deign to suggest each other is scum. The scum list they have between them is Lobster, Me and Exemption. Each of us has demonstrated some newbie weaknesses.

I accept some of the subsequent criticism of this from other players (essentially that part of this could be WIFOM). However, its still contributing to my FoS on Adaham.
cirno wrote:3.Why have you now become undecided as to Adaham's alignment whereas previously you listed him as a lynch candidate and insisted at least twice that he was my scumbuddy?
Well, the Me=Weird / Exemption interplay has perked my interest and opened the field a little in who else might be scum.

LobsterCatapult wrote:you are wrong in the fact that cirno has not helped widen the scum search. this is based on his interactions with weird, adaham and perhaps even me since there was a discussion on me. im not saying that all 3 of these people are town

... so you are saying that either Adaham or Weird might be scum?
Looking forward to your in depth post.
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Post Post #352 (ISO) » Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:51 pm

Post by Me=Weird »

Not enough evidence to actually post a case on Exemption(plus I've spent the past 2 hours reading a game), so I think I'll have to go along with a different lynch, at least today. I will only want a lynch on king as a deadline lynch though, I think he's town. If I had to pick a lynch right now, that wasn't exemption, I'd have to say cirno(though I don't have a big scum-read on him), and I wouldn't be particularly against a adaham lynch. Note to self: reading a 25 page game is kinda demoralizing.
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Post Post #353 (ISO) » Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:15 pm

Post by redtail896 »

Me=Weird wrote:Not enough evidence to actually post a case on Exemption(plus I've spent the past 2 hours reading a game), so I think I'll have to go along with a different lynch, at least today. I will only want a lynch on king as a deadline lynch though, I think he's town.
Why? Why do you think he's town?

I'm not trying to be flip or anything, but I genuinely have a hard time seeing what is convincing multiple people here that he is town. Again, I can be reasoned with. Please explain it to me. Present a case. Defend him.
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Post Post #354 (ISO) » Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:48 pm

Post by Cirno »

I'll have to go
V/LA until Wednesday night (cdt)
. I will post my thoughts on the last few posts when I return.

@Me=Weird & Kingcod
: Please explain why you believe I am the single best lynch at this point in time. I'm asking each of you to build a case that summarizes all of your suspicions concerning me as concisely and clearly as possible in one post. If Me=Weird posts "Pretty much the same here" he will receive a failing grade and will have to repeat the class.

In return, I shall make "Why Kingcod Is Scum (Part 2)", concerning his behavior on Day 2. Of course, if anyone wants to save me the trouble and just hammer Kingcod outright, that would be appreciated. Preemptively rolling my eyes at anything Kingcod might have to say about that last sentence.
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Post Post #355 (ISO) » Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:52 am

Post by Me=Weird »

I don't, cirno. I would rather a exemption or adaham(see below) lynch. Exemption because I think it's a goon goon situation and he took a risk day 1, and got lucky night 1, so of course it's safe to say he's been roleblocked, and as equi said, even if he really is the cop, if he continues getting roleblocked, he's useless as a PR and a bad scum-hunter.
I think adaham is scummy mainly because he initially posted good content, but lately he's barely been posting any, and not regularly. In fact,
Mod: Please prod adaham. Also, can you please include deadline in all vote counts?
And yes, I know that isn't lynchworthy usually, but there isn't enough stuff from other people that is scummy.

Redtail: I don't know, I guess it's more of a gut feeling.
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Post Post #356 (ISO) » Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:37 am

Post by LobsterCatapult »

i dont think either are scum right now. i never said i thought they were. i just said that cirno helped lead discussion and scum searches on them.
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Post Post #357 (ISO) » Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:26 am

Post by kingcod »

Cirno wrote:
@Me=Weird & Kingcod
: Please explain why you believe I am the single best lynch at this point in time.
1. You aren't one of these people:
kingcod wrote: I explained here:
kingcod wrote:LobsterCatapult - generally supportive play. Answers questions, keeps the game moving and looks at a range of options rather than narrowing in too much. Has a town feel
Exemption - Neutral to town read. The cop claim I would still like to think is a newbie town slip, since its even worse newbie scum play (sorry Exemption!).
RedTail896 - methodical and throrough. Sticks to his guns but has hunted widely.
Me=Weird - a rocky road through Valkyrie and now MW ... a null to town read but nothing jumping out as scum

So this leaves me with Adaham and Cirno. Adaham has been in and out of the scumzone, and could have collaborated with Cirno/RayFrost to split their votes between Exemption and Equinox, leaving town to fumble about stringing up Hoopla.
2. Tireless attacks on me when I know I'm town. I can't say this will be a reason for others to vote you of course.
3. If one set of questions for me to answer result in nothing you can take apart (e.g. my last post) you try a new set of questions rather than accept any answers.

So its not an open and shut solid case but no one else comes close right now.
I'll do the eye rolling to save you the effort :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Post Post #358 (ISO) » Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:37 am

Post by Cirno »

I'm back. I'll make part 2 of my Kingcod case later tonight.
Kingcod wrote:If one set of questions for me to answer result in nothing you can take apart (e.g. my last post) you try a new set of questions rather than accept any answers.
Rest assured, sir. I will do my best to take apart that post when I make my case tonight.
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Post Post #359 (ISO) » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:48 pm

Post by Me=Weird »

LobsterCatapult wrote:i dont think either are scum right now. i never said i thought they were. i just said that cirno helped lead discussion and scum searches on them.
Either of who? Sorry if I missed something. Who are your main suspects right now? You're seeming a bit close-mouthed. Also, for your signature, in "weird" the "e" is before the "i".
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Post Post #360 (ISO) » Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:00 pm

Post by Cirno »

Hey... uh... I stayed up too late (it is something like 4:30am here) watching Jersey Shore (shut up, I was bored and I wanted to see where that gif came from) and I really don't need to fuck up my sleeping habits right before I begin classes again. But I did promise a case tonight, so here it is in a nutshell. If you wish, I can do the bullet points + hyperlink thing (ie, a proper case) tomorrow.

Essentially, Kingcod has not done anything Day 2 other than whine about being attacked by me. When he
does
ask a question, it is only "what do you guys think about that?". Upon being attacked, he immediately votes me, speculating that my "objective is to whack another townie". His case against me boils down to "Cirno attacked me" and "I have a null or town read on everyone else". He uses the latter point as the sole reason to speculate that Adaham and I are scumbuddies, and then to suggest that an argument between Adaham and I was a 'puppet show'. He FOSes Adaham, but does not bother to question him, even though he feels that I am trying to distract him from doing so. Similarly, he comments that the "Me=Weird / Exemption interplay" interests him, but does not bother to question either of them. When I suggest that the only reason he had to suspect Adaham and I were scumbuddies is that he has a null or town read on everyone else, he implies that it is a scummy suggestion, but then later uses the exact same reason as explanation for his suspicions. Under continued pressure, Kingcod refuses to answer questions and even resorts to a massive appeal to emotion.

@Kingcod:
Please show me the interplay between Me=Weird and Exemption that bothers you, and explain what exactly bothers you about it. Also, my intention with the "you must answer my questions or admit that you had no reason to suggest that Adaham and I were scumbuddies and little reason to suspect Adaham at all" was to show that your suspicions of either of us are very weak, and that you were making a big accusation (that the argument between Adaham and I was faked) without such weak reasoning.

@Everyone Else:
Lynch Kingcod. Seriously. No other player even has a case against them. If you do not wish to lynch Kingcod, then put some actual effort into getting your lynchee of choice strung up and make a case, or, alternatively, If you don't care enough to play to win, then replace out.
Do not
wait until deadline (which is on the 5th) and risk a scum engineered deadline lynch.

I'll post more tomorrow (that is
today
, but after I wake up)
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Post Post #361 (ISO) » Thu Jul 01, 2010 12:06 am

Post by kingcod »

I sense Cirno's post carries with it the full weight of staying up till 4.30.

I'll keep this brief : Cirno's assessment of my day 2 is getting pretty desparate. My contributions have been weighted towards responding to Cirno because Cirno has been the most active player (so fair play to Cirno for that!). I don't hear myself whining - I'm sorry that responding to Cirno should be interpreted like this (thats bit of an AtE in itself Cirno?).

I have to admit its getting harder to hold down a view on Adaham because he just ain't here - Check in my friend!

I hoped the Me=Weird vote by Exemption might help us understand what power roles we actually had. Sadly nothing much else occured so I have little else to go on

@Cirno - whats your view on Exemption? What do you think of Me=Weird's case against him?
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Post Post #362 (ISO) » Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:04 am

Post by LobsterCatapult »

due to the holiday, i will be out of town from the 3rd-4th. i dont think ill be able to post because where im going my firends place has terrible dail up internet.

i will be able to post today/tomorrow i think. ill look stuff over now.
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Post Post #363 (ISO) » Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:21 am

Post by Me=Weird »

Evidence has higher priority than gut.
At one point today, when accused of suggesting a no-lynch, he said it might have saved hoopla. Who cares if it would have saved anyone!! We needed a lynch day 1. Period.
Wait what?
Kingcod wrote:Redtail is town
How would anyone know that except the mafia? Saying someone is town(unless a cop with an innocent) is a fairly substantial scum-tell(when it's not on it's own).
How would the interplay between me and exemption suggest which power roles we have?
Oh yes, you "know you're town", that's terribly convincing.
Yes, cirno has been attacking you so you need to respond, but that doesn't mean all but ignoring other people.
I'd be willing to hammer after lobster responds to me, but if king flips town, my gut(not me) gets to say "I told you so!!" No, I'm not trying to stay on both sides, I'm just saying that although there is a good case on king, my gut says town.

Oh, and I'll be visiting relatives on the 4th too.
MOD: Can the deadline(whether day or night) be extended because of the holiday?
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Post Post #364 (ISO) » Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:49 am

Post by Cirno »

What Cirno Meant To Say wrote:you were making a big accusation (that the argument between Adaham and I was faked)
with
such weak reasoning.
Now, onto the actual post.
kingcod wrote:I sense Cirno's post carries with it the full weight of staying up till 4.30.
This right here is Kingcod's absolute favorite tactic. He loves to try to undermine a post without responding directly to its points.
Kingcod wrote:Cirno's assessment of my day 2 is getting pretty desparate.
How so? Point out any one of the allegations in that post that you find desperate and I'll show you why it is absolutely true. Last night I made especially sure that I only made allegations that I could back up. And again, attack the points not the post.
Kingcod wrote:My contributions have been weighted towards responding to Cirno because Cirno has been the most active player (so fair play to Cirno for that!).
First of all... what contributions? Secondly, responding to questions from one player does not exclude you from doing anything else. You've mentioned suspicions of Adaham and Exemption and Me=Weird and even Cirno but have not bothered to try to get even one of them lynched.
Kingcod wrote:I don't hear myself whining
I can recall at least one post dedicated to whining
Kingcod wrote:I have to admit its getting harder to hold down a view on Adaham because he just ain't here - Check in my friend!
If you have questions for Adaham, go ahead and ask them so he can answer when he returns.
Kingcod wrote:I hoped the Me=Weird vote by Exemption might help us understand what power roles we actually had. Sadly nothing much else occured so I have little else to go on
This is another thing Kingcod repeatedly does. He mentions suspicions towards a player or a post and then hopes that someone else will agree with him. When no one does, he drops the subject completely. If asked to explain his suspicions, he cops out by saying that his opinion has changed since he made the statement.

Also, when you are not even trying to question those whom you have suspicions of, you don't have the right to then complain that you have nothing to go on.

Kingcod wrote:Whats your view on Exemption?
As I've mentioned repeatedly, interaction between yourself and Exemption has caused me to believed that you are not scumbuddies. Specifically, some of your attacks against Adumbro and Exemptions attacks towards you. I believe that you are scum, so I must then believe that Exemption is town, but I do not the latter part a certainty. Note that depending on the flips and night actions, my opinion may change.
Kingcod wrote:What do you think of Me=Weird's case against him?
Me=Weird did not make a case, rather he mentioned that there was a lack of evidence in order to do so.

Now, I want you to tell me how these two questions are useful to you or anyone else.


Dunno when or if the hammer will come, and I've been tunneling Kingcod all day, so I'll say this now. Adaham disappeared when he was no longer being questioned. Don't let Redtail (or myself) coast through the game, especially if Kingcod flips town. Neither should you let those with few posts coast through the game. If you notice they've been gone for an extended period without explanation, ask the mod to prod them. After being prodded enough times, they will have to be replaced. If we end up in lylo tomorrow, do not cast any kind of vote until you are absolutely convinced that it is the right move.

Also,
Me=Weird wrote:I'll be visiting relatives on the 4th too.
Lobster wrote:due to the holiday, i will be out of town from the 3rd-4th.
Step 1, go to a relatives or friend's house on the 4th. If you have children, bring as many as possible.
Step 2, Light or have children light hundreds of fireworks in front of said house, preferably as close to the owner's vehicle as possible.
Step 3, get drunk and make as much of a mess as possible on the owner's property.
Step 4, Return home, leaving the owners of the house to clean up dozens of beer bottles and hundreds of exploded fireworks by themselves.

I'm on to you two. My relatives do this to me every year. I want you two to know that I frown upon your shenanigans.
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Post Post #365 (ISO) » Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:40 am

Post by kingcod »

@Cirno:

Where are your most recent assessments of other players? Can you list the questions you put to other players?
Could you indicate where I have
not[/] made contributions through posting? I think I have. You think I haven't. Please - some evidence.
Can you identify all the posts I have made that undermine another player's post rather than points?
Please list all my votes and FoS - can you explain why these would not be attempts at getting people lynched, and how this differs from votes and FoS made by other players?
Please show how this "It has been a breeze for scum to hide under the various player replacements we have had, such that everyone's natural inclination is to lynch who they know" is whining rather than an obesrvation about scum tactics.
Please demonstrate categorically that suspicions I have voiced are expressed such that I 'hope' others will agree. Compare and contrast with "@Everyone Else: Lynch Kingcod. Seriously."
Please show why my change in opinion is more scummy than other players doing the same in the course of this game
Please explain why you feel it necessary to advise town on a course of action in the situation where I am town and you have succeeded in lynching me.

@Adaham - If I were lynched and you find me to be town would you vote Cirno or Redtail?
@Me=Weird - I think you might just be quoting me out of context. Why would you do this? I have previously identified redtail as likely town ("methodical and throrough. Sticks to his guns but has hunted widely")
@Redtail - If I flip town who will you look at first as scum?
@Exemption - Who will you investigate tonight as scum?
@Lobster - you said on 22nd that you had not made you mind up on Cirno. Have you now?
Town: 2W/1L
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Post Post #366 (ISO) » Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:03 am

Post by Me=Weird »

@kingcod:
Maybe, but wouldn't it have been better to say "I think redtail is town" or "I'm pretty sure redtail it town" because, you know, there's always a small possibility.
MOD: CAN YOU ALSO PROD REDTAIL? THANKS
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Post Post #367 (ISO) » Thu Jul 01, 2010 12:25 pm

Post by Cirno »

kingcod wrote:Where are your most recent assessments of other players?
Not really my style to give out my town reads. At the moment, the only thing I put faith in is that you are scum.
Kingcod wrote:Can you list the questions you put to other players?
I've spent a bit of time arguing with Adaham and a short time interrogating Me=Weird. I've also been attacking and questioning you pretty much nonstop. Asking me to list every question is a bit ridiculous. Please scroll to the bottom of the page until you see
Image
Choose my name in the dropdown box and hit go.
Kingcod wrote:Could you indicate where I have
not[/] made contributions through posting? I think I have. You think I haven't. Please - some evidence.
To me, making a contribution to the game means making a post with some value to town, something you have not done a single time day 2. As a smartass, it is my duty to link to your iso and claim that that is evidence enough that you've not done a single useful thing on day 2.
Kingcod wrote:Can you identify all the posts I have made that undermine another player's post rather than points?
1, 2, 3, 4, 5 from a quick scan of your iso.
Kingcod wrote:Please list all my votes and FoS
On day 2, the only person you've voted is myself, and the only person you've FoS'd is Adaham.
Kingcod wrote:can you explain why these would not be attempts at getting people lynched, and how this differs from votes and FoS made by other players?
They are not attempts to get people lynched because you don't pursue your suspicions. You OMGUS'd me and left it there. You insisted on FoSing Adaham, but did not bother pursuing him. You've not actually done anything to try to convince anyone else to vote or share the same suspects as you. You are not the only one to do this, hence the "play to win or replace out" paragraph in my last post. You differ, though, in that you are around to my respond to my posts and so have had plenty of opportunity to do so.
Kingcod wrote:Please show how this "It has been a breeze for scum to hide under the various player replacements we have had, such that everyone's natural inclination is to lynch who they know" is whining rather than an obesrvation about scum tactics.
Please explain how refusing to answer questions because you don't want to give another player 'spotlight' or crying about how you are about to get lynched despite doing your best
isn't
whining? I would not consider that particular sentence you are mentioning as whining.
Kingcod wrote:Please demonstrate categorically that suspicions I have voiced are expressed such that I 'hope' others will agree. Compare and contrast with "@Everyone Else: Lynch Kingcod. Seriously."
I think you misunderstand what I mean. I'm actually talking about comments like these-
"I won't comment on the first bit, but the second point is giving me the jitters. Or is it just me?"
"Anyone else have a problem with that ?"
"Some interesting stuff has appeared here since I last posted. Principally the interplay between ME=Weird and Exemption. I don't feel we have ever got to the bottom of whether we have a cop."
"the Me=Weird / Exemption interplay has perked my interest and opened the field a little in who else might be scum."

-that you make and then fail to pursue. When you make such a comment and then do not follow up, it can only be assumed that you expect someone else to do so.

In comparison to my "Lynch Kingcod. Seriously.", your votes and cases are much worse. I've explained why you should be lynched at least twice now and that gives me a basis to ask others to lynch you.
Kingcod wrote:Please show why my change in opinion is more scummy than other players doing the same in the course of this game
As a flipflopper, I don't think I accused you of flipflopping. Can you show me exactly what you are referring to so I can better answer this question?
Kingcod wrote:Please explain why you feel it necessary to advise town on a course of action in the situation where I am town and you have succeeded in lynching me.
Getting my thoughts out on day 3 in case I get nked. I don't think it is terribly common for players to do so before a day ends.
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Post Post #368 (ISO) » Thu Jul 01, 2010 12:27 pm

Post by Cirno »

Cirno wrote:terribly
un
common
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Post Post #369 (ISO) » Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:18 pm

Post by redtail896 »

First of all, sorry about the 3 day absence. I hereby pledge at least 1 post per day in all games I ever play in.
kingcod wrote:@Redtail - If I flip town who will you look at first as scum?
If you flip town, the first thing I will do is reread the game. All 15+ pages. I'll focus on Cirno and Adaham a tad bit more, but not much. That would mean that scum have done an excellent job of hiding, and we need to reroute all of our suspicions. I will also look very carefully at
who
was killed (I'll not go into detail about that, as I don't want to give scum ideas; suffice to say that I have ideas about who would kill who). I understand that this is a bit of a cop out, but I won't focus on any one person. I would try to reset my brain.

Re: the kingcod case. I'm going to repeat this from an earlier post of mine, because I think it still holds:
redtail896 wrote:Why? Why do you think he's town?

I'm not trying to be flip or anything, but I genuinely have a hard time seeing what is convincing multiple people here that he is town. Again, I can be reasoned with. Please explain it to me. Present a case. Defend him.
Re: the Cirno case. The reason I posted that WoT above is that I wanted to understand why people attacked her. And I'm still not seeing it. I still don't see a logical case against Cirno. Kingcod, I understand what you're saying with your list of town reads and concluding that, since Cirno is not on that list, he must be scum, but you still don't give a
reason
. Here is my question: does anyone feel that his attacking of kingcod is unfair? Or illogical? Excessive? If you want me to move my vote to Cirno, present a real case.

As for Exemption: first of all
Mod: Would you please prod Exemption?
With that out of the way, I do think, from his point of view, that his me=weird vote is logical as far as it goes. Especially with this quote:
Me=Weird wrote:Not enough evidence to actually post a case on Exemption
I understand your suspicions of Exemption and I can actually sympathize. But undefinable suspicions are not fantastic aids. I might be willing to lynch Exemption in a pinch, but remember that much of my Adumbro suspicions were tempered later on (I moved on to fry bigger fish). I understand the ethereal, undefinable suspicions, but I'd rather jump on the definable, real kingcod.

Re: the general assumption that I'm town. Would somebody please explain to me the difference between me and Cirno? And the differences between me and Adaham. Really.
You can just call me Redtail. If I could, I'd change my name to that anyway.
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Post Post #370 (ISO) » Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:19 pm

Post by redtail896 »

Since, I messed up the tags in the previous post, I'm going to repost this here to ensure that our mod gets it.

Mod: Would you please prod Exemption?
You can just call me Redtail. If I could, I'd change my name to that anyway.
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Post Post #371 (ISO) » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:37 am

Post by Me=Weird »

redtail wrote:
Me=Weird wrote:Not enough evidence to actually post a case on Exemption
I understand your suspicions of Exemption and I can actually sympathize. But undefinable suspicions are not fantastic aids.
Hence why it's a suspicion, not a case. As in, I find a few things scummy about him, but not quite enough to vote him.
redtail wrote:Re: the general assumption that I'm town. Would somebody please explain to me the difference between me and Cirno? And the differences between me and Adaham. Really.
Between you and cirno: You didn't replace in and promise a case on the easiest target and not post it for almost a week.
Between you and adaham: Mostly your play has been very consistently town, rather than town, and now slacking off.
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Mini 1267, a 9p Mini Normal is Day 1, page 4.

Cheese Mafia: a 25p(?) large theme about a big corporation buying up all the little individual cheese sellers.
On hold for lack of reviewers. PM me!
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Post Post #372 (ISO) » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:37 pm

Post by Cirno »

@Me=Weird
: Can I ask you why delivering the case late is scummy?
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Post Post #373 (ISO) » Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:33 pm

Post by redtail896 »

I'd like to repeat a sentiment of Cirno's (which I think actually transcends whether you think she is town or not):
Cirno wrote:
Do not
wait until deadline (which is on the 5th) and risk a scum engineered deadline lynch.
In short, I'd like to see a real case on anybody else. (I know at least one person has promised to potentially hammer kingcod).
Cirno wrote:Not really my style to give out my town reads. At the moment, the only thing I put faith in is that you are scum.
I'd still like to see your opinions of everybody else for two reasons:
1. If you are NKed, then I'd like to know what you thought today. I consider you the most diligent scumhunter here, and one that I'm tending to trust (admittedly, because you agree with my suspicions). I want to know your thoughts.
2. I want you on the record now, to be used during later discussion. While I'm kind of trusting you, I'm not convinced that your town. If kingcod turns up town, you will of course be under the spotlight. And if he turns up scum, then it's still good to have it on the record (I imagine that we'll inevitably come back to arguing about you).
kingcod wrote:Please list all my votes and FoS - can you explain why these would not be attempts at getting people lynched, and how this differs from votes and FoS made by other players?
I'm covering this since Cirno only did your D2 votes.
1st Vote: AdumbroDeus (#12) This is clearly part of the RVS and there's not a lot of analyzing to be done here. (The unvote in post #53 deserves a mention here)
2nd Vote: MrSandman (#61) Third vote on the bandwagon. The sum total of reasoning given is this:
kingcod wrote:Not Liking Sandman's recent posts. Do we get to hear the gist of that PM to Valkyrie to be sure its not" 'kill them - kill them all!' *evil cackle* "
We've done to death why many of us believe that this was insufficient reason for a vote, and seemed like just a desire to jump on the easy bandwagon popular amongst the more experience players. You later cite Hoopla's reasoning (which I had a problem with anyway).
1st FOS: Adaham (#117) for "stirring discontent" (Adaham had claimed that you should have been harsher in your critique of AdumbroDeus). Multiple people did not quite understood where this FOS came from, and you more or less abandoned it in your next post.
You next unvote MrSandman (#148) after my long introductory post (in which I express my dislike and distrust of the MrSandman wagon)
3rd Vote: Hoopla (#181) Contrary to your statements, you did not start the Hoopla suspicion wagon. I think Adaham was the first to attack Hoopla, and I was the first serious vote on her.

So, in examining your D1 votes, both are jumping on already popular ideas, and the FOS seemed to have no real reasoning behind it. Do I think these are attempts at getting people lynched? Almost certainly. Just the wrong people for the wrong reasons.

With that out of the way:
Me=Weird wrote:Between you and adaham: Mostly your play has been very consistently town, rather than town, and now slacking off.
I've slacked off a bit. I was just prodded after all.
You can just call me Redtail. If I could, I'd change my name to that anyway.
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Post Post #374 (ISO) » Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:35 pm

Post by Cirno »

@Everyone:
Do you guys plan to go the "HOLY FUCKING SHIT ITS THE DEADLINE BANDWAGON SOMEBODY QUICK!" route again? If you are playing on this site, you've probably read a game or two and should know that the key to victory for town is not being passive all day and then quick lynching to avoid a no lynch at deadline.

@Mod:

Adaham has not posted in this game since June 26th.
Exemption has not posted in this game since June 25th.
Please prod or replace or do
something
with them.

Preview Edit:
Redtail wrote:I'd still like to see your opinions of everybody else for two reasons:
1. If you are NKed, then I'd like to know what you thought today. I consider you the most diligent scumhunter here, and one that I'm tending to trust.
2. I want you on the record now, to be used during later discussion. While I'm kind of trusting you, I'm not convinced that your town. If kingcod turns up town, you will of course be under the spotlight. And if he turns up scum, then it's still good to have it on the record (I imagine that we'll inevitably come back to arguing about you).
I will cleverly avoid answering this question by stating what bothers me about each player instead.

-
Adaham
's absence bothers me. As I've said earlier, he was nice and active when he was being attacked.
-
Exemption
has claimed cop and his predecessor was one of Kingcod's targets. Because of this, I'm labeling him as newbie town for now. But on his own, he is more scummy than not.
-If I had to guess as to Kingcod's partner, I'd guess
Me=Weird
. Me=Weird's attacks on me were extremely flimsy, his case against Exemption is non-existent, he can't explain why his opinion of Kingcod has changed, and he claims to be willing to hammer but only after another player that has already stated they will be v/la until just before the deadline has posted.
-I've been too lazy to look into
Lobster
, despite saying I would do so. I'd put him with Adaham in the 'keep an eye on this one' category.
-
Redtail
is easily the most townie player in the game. I haven't really looked into him at all since I read the thread after replacing in. I also had sailorpallas labeled as the towniest player in my notes (under only the confirmed townies Equinox, Hoopla, and RayFrost). I'm saying this so that he is night killed rather than me.
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