Scummers Mafia: Greatest Bash? (Game Over, Scum wins?)

[manho]

Vote: The Mask.

Only scum need masks.

vote:The Mask

Vote: The Mask

[manho]

I know that someone, Kublai Khan, has claimed miller as scum and survived through endgame and win.

[manho]

but the miller claim should not be treated as a scum tell for now, and there are roles other than cop that can check his alignment.

[manho]

mask's case on ort is a bit far-stretched, but ort need to explain it sooner or later. i prefer later.

[manho]

my gut said monkey is actually town. but sadly my gut is insane. so,

unvote, vote: monkey

[manho]

Manho as for his stalling and the two faced position towards the topic. One thinks Maskie is stretching, yet the other still wants an explanation from Orto.

maybe i've got Schizophrenia then.

but actually, i didn't think those 2 are contradicting. Mask is stretching only implies that i think orto is neutral to pro-town, and orto is soft-claiming a guilty result on zazie, so we need an explanation from orto to prove it, sooner or later. i prefer later as orto may want to save his claim later so as to get more results. but it is up to orto.

Speaking about Manho, don't like his vote. The insane part gives him a reason to backtrack. Also, can you tell why you're getting a town gut feeling from Monkey and why you think your gut is insane?

gut feeling is, you know, a gut feeling. i can't explain it, as it is a gut feeling. and i find my gut insane from my experience. whenever i got a gut feeling on someone being town, they flip scum. and vice versa.

[manho]

mask's case on ort is a bit far-stretched, but ort need to explain it sooner or later. i prefer later.

I would normally find this comment extremely scummy (there's not really anything in The Mask's case I can actually respond to, it's all baseless speculation), but something about manho's phrasing gives me the innocent newb vibe. manho might be someone to watch later on if he's an alt.

no i'm not an alt. you should have played with me before.

[manho]

Orto, I have no intention of claiming. Please state your reason for wanting one.
Also, the part about the Ocarina of Time wasn't aimed at you, but at Phoenix.

But Orto, thanks for helping me find the answer to the thing I wanted to know. You can die now.

FoS: zazie

, it would be a vote if i didn't have the gut investigation result on monkey.

you should claim.

[manho]

Spy still needs to die.

why?

[manho]

Orto, I have no intention of claiming. Please state your reason for wanting one.
Also, the part about the Ocarina of Time wasn't aimed at you, but at Phoenix.

But Orto, thanks for helping me find the answer to the thing I wanted to know. You can die now.

FoS: zazie

, it would be a vote if i didn't have the gut investigation result on monkey.

you should claim.

Why?
Orto is scum, so I can see why he wants me to claim. What's your reason?

REMINDER: Manho is sooooooo Orto's partner.

if you are town, you should consider the town vs town situation first. calling a soft-claimed person scum is anti-town. so, are you sure it is not a town vs town situation?

[manho]

unvote, vote: zazie

that's L-2.

[manho]

@orto, check my wiki and you will find me not an alt.

[manho]

sorry zazie. you are not a cop.

Ohohohoho, I'm back with my whip and black fluffy handcuffs >:]
Before I start:

I know that someone, Kublai Khan, has claimed miller as scum and survived through endgame and win.

Good times XD
(Psst, he won with some help from me )

So, on to the second part:
Monkey is scum. The whole thingy of him FoSing Spy, then discrediting Sens and then going the 'I do not want to come across as scummy' is enough for me.
Monkey, please state how the claim from Spy makes him look suspicious.

Orto needs to explain how serious those FoSes were.
As for your question:
-I'd have used my black fluffy handcuffs on Ani or RisingPhoenix (You played in The Ocarina of Time mafia from Tarhalindur, right?) if I had a kill as town.
-I'd have used my whip against you, Spy or Papa Z, depending if one of the three isn't scum with me had I been scum.
Question: Why did you ask?

I like how ortolan is thinking, so far. It's just...such a shame that he is actually scum trying to look town.

Do. Elaborate.

a cop with a guilty result would have attack orto more than this post. the cop would have put the attention on "orto is scum", but not fluff and "monkey is scum". especially in the 2nd post. and i wouldn't answer the questions if i have a guilty result on orto.

@Maskie
Seriously, I'm curious as to whom you are I might turn that mode on, but I'm looking forward so much to using my whip and fluffy black handcuffs on Orto >:]
Serious reason: I need more posts before my feast can begin

Still Monkey and Orto are scum, so the feast is getting ready to start, Ohohohoho.


Monkey still needs to explain why Spyrex's claim makes him look suspicious.

And my Maskie love starts to grow. If Orto is indeed scum, Kunk is his partner. Manho too is a possibility.
Kunk for his 'passive' statement against Maskie's post about Orto-scum.
('Passive' as I get the impression that he's testing the waters, due to the word 'beginning'.)
Manho as for his stalling and the two faced position towards the topic. One thinks Maskie is stretching, yet the other still wants an explanation from Orto.

Speaking about Manho, don't like his vote. The insane part gives him a reason to backtrack. Also, can you tell why you're getting a town gut feeling from Monkey and why you think your gut is insane?

I want MM to respond to Cuttle(fish)Nik's vote, because I don't read it like that.

still no hint at a guilty result. and monkey came before orto, the "confirmed scum", when he said "Still Monkey and Orto are scum".

the rest of his posts start seem like from a cop with guilty result. but he had already had enough time to come up with the claim, so they can't prove anything.

someone hammer please.

[manho]

vote: orto

[manho]

full claim: PokerFace, slightly overeager mason dayvig (with Hoopla, any scum want to fake counterclaim? go right ahead). My ability is "night vigilante". I can shoot as long as Vi did not shoot the previous day. Passive abilities are "trigger-happy" (forced to use night vig on night 0) and "gun sharing" which is the fact I am a mason with Vi (Hoopla).

the "slightly racist" element of Hoopla's role was the fact that Vi hates cops, so she would automatically daykill any claimed cop (seriously, I'm not making this up)

I targetted Zazie n0 (not only because Hoops wanted me to but because I always kill Zazie n0 anyway, independent of my alignment). He didn't die and acted scummy when I put pressure on

so I assumed he was an un-nkable SK

. n1 I tried to kill hasdgfas because I wanted to take that wildcard out of the game, my other suspects (e.g. MonkeyMan) I saw as decently likely to get lynched (and I'm not all that sold on MonkeyMan anyhow).

So apparently my kill doesn't even work, which makes my role rather crap. If ani tracked me I assume he can confirm the claim (if not the mason part should be enough anyway).

explain the bolded parts.

[manho]

Also FOS: Papa Zito, manho[/b] for pushing the Zazie does not look like a Cop angle. At least one of them is probably scum trying to convince the Town to Quicklynch.

you should read zazie's post then, especially the first 3 posts. it really didn't look like what a cop would have posted.

[manho]

like it or not this would have happened regardless of whether I pressured Zazie at the start of day one, considering Zazie had a guilty on me anyway.

Anyway you definitely shouldn't lynch me based on the fact that no-one will counterclaim the masons thing, and the fact that my play day one wouldn't make sense as scum (

unless we had a watcher who saw Zaz target me or something

, which is incredibly low probability).

the bolded part is not the only reason, but you've explained that you always target zazie at the start of the game, so you, as a scum, may want to get zazie lynched at day 1.

Considering I always target Zazie at the start of the game, it's a fair presumption that he would target me too.

and you said that you would assume zazie had targetted you. it made more reason for you to try to get zazie lynched.

Seeing as he's an insane cop and I'm a vig whose kill got redirected (or doesn't exist) it was just an unfortunate role combination.

the probability for your kill to be redirected and that zazie is an insane cop is incredibly low.

@ortolan, why did you assume zazie is unnightkillable scum, instead of he being an unnightkillable town or a doc protected him or your kill got redirected or you got roleblocked or whatever?

[manho]

@ortolan, why did you assume zazie is unnightkillable scum, instead of he being an unnightkillable town or a doc protected him or your kill got redirected or you got roleblocked or whatever?

Seemed an unlikely doc protection target tbh, also odds of a bulletproof townie role being in this game are incredibly low.

do you really think an insane cop is more likely to be in this game than a bulletproof? and do you really think you being redirected is more likely than zazie being protected?

[manho]

i start finding ortolan not scum.

but i don't know, i'm still with the lynch.

[manho]

i start finding ortolan not scum.

but i don't know, i'm still with the lynch.

Horrible, just horrible. You start to find him not scum but are still fine with his lynch, why is that?

FoS: manho

i don't know. ortolan is still more likely to be scum, but it's less sure than when zazie flip. and even if ortolan is town, he is VI and bad at decision making and logical thinking. a town-killing town vig is anti-town.

[manho]

vote: monkey

this should be done long before, if ortolan didn't make that mess.

[manho]

Actually,

vote manho

You were trying to make sure that first lynch went down before people had a chance to comment on Zazie being a Cop. And for the people that did get this chance, you pushed the "Zazie does not look like a Cop" argument to convince them to get the wagon done just that much faster.

if i'm scum, i would know both zazie and ortolan is town, but both claim a guilty result on each other. it would make sense for scum-me to push zazie's lynch if ortolan is my scum-buddy. but he flip town now. scum-me would just sit back and see which town-pr would be lynched. i may not even put my vote on the lynch wagon to gain some town cred. that means PZ is not scum for pushing zazie's lynch with me. scums are among those stay away from or just blindly following the wagon, but not those pushing the wagons.

I still like the manho wagon. He's been following along the easy lynch wagons both days, and even went to say the contradiction that he thought orto was not scum but still worthy of a lynch. He then jumps on today's monkey wagon without any input from himself.

Vote: manho.

you can't say someone is "following" a lynch by pushing it hard, which is what i was doing in zazie's lynch.
and for the contradiction thing, read my previous post:

i start finding ortolan not scum.

but i don't know, i'm still with the lynch.

Horrible, just horrible. You start to find him not scum but are still fine with his lynch, why is that?

FoS: manho

i don't know. ortolan is still more likely to be scum, but it's less sure than when zazie flip. and even if ortolan is town, he is VI and bad at decision making and logical thinking. a town-killing town vig is anti-town.

and for the monkey vote, read this:

my gut said monkey is actually town. but sadly my gut is insane. so,

unvote, vote: monkey

i will read the thread again to see if someone is more scummy, when i have time.

[manho]

There's little motivation for scum to fakeclaim a different player.

there is reason for scum to fake a name-claim, as some "name" is more suitable for some "role". for example, a scum who wants to claim "name cop" as his "role" will not name claim "Kast". so scum might fake name-claim.

but now we have a claimed name-cop, i doubt scum would fake name-claim then, unless monkey is scum, which is likely the case.

[manho]

monkey definitely need to claim his results. if you are town, no scum will fake claim anymore, so your power and your results are useless in scumhunting. so there is no use saving those results.

[manho]

Well, I think we should have a mass name claim just to make sure, what could it hurt?

what could it do?

[manho]

I know that someone, Kublai Khan, has claimed miller as scum and survived through endgame and win.

lol, i soft name-claimed in my 2nd post.

so monkey is the scum namecop. someone hammer?

[manho]

I was gonna say Zang, but.... scratch that.

Vote: manho

The whole structure and outcome of things leans to him as the next scummer. MM couldn't even figure out the reason he "copped" manho, and couldn't remember which order he targeted people. Though I

do

see nhammen's distancing from MM yesterday up until the end.

why would MM fakeclaim his results? he IS a rolecop, and he sure can give us the real cop-results. so i don't think he has faked any of those results. then why would MM investigate his buddy n0? maybe MM and I have forseen the current situation and build this WIFOM in pre-game then.

I highly, highly doubt that Monkey was able to tell just from manho's softclaim that manho is Kublai Khan. I feel that manho is from the same faction as Monkey.

MM is the rolecop, and he will know my name if he had investigated me.

[manho]

Yes, from my view, there are two possibilities:
A) Monkey investigated you
B) you are Monkey's buddy

If A, why did scum decide to investigate you? How does a scum rolecop usually choose their target? I would think that investigating someone likely to be run up would be stupid.

maybe he was telling the truth and he investigated me randomly in night 0.

question to all who think i'm scum with MM: why would MM lie when he claimed his results?

question to all who think i'm scum but not with MM: why am I scum? and what's the chance of 2 scum teams in the game? (you should take into account the flavor of the game, the number of night kills, the role name of MM, etc.)

[manho]

why would MM fakeclaim his results? he IS a rolecop, and he sure can give us the real cop-results. so i don't think he has faked any of those results. then why would MM investigate his buddy n0? maybe MM and I have forseen the current situation and build this WIFOM in pre-game then.

Maybe. But then what's to say there wasn't one result he withheld, in order to blend you with the other townies he rolecopped?

it's possible, but it has a risk that he was tracked or i was watched. it will be a flip for 2 scums at the same time. i won't risk it if i'm scum.

Kublai Khan is a sketchy character, personally. He's got me good when he's scum, and there's been 1 or 2 games of ours when he has been town, so I remember him more for being mafia.

i haven't played with him. the flavor in my pm is about him claiming to be miller and walk through endgame event, but that is "game breaking" so dramonic don't let me to be scum. so yeah, he is more known as a scum, at least in dramonic's own opinion.

[manho]

i've skimmed through pom's posts as i don't have much time. and this post is strange:

Moneky, I want a paraphrase of your whole PM.

Now.

...

He basically gave it. But it was very short and nondescript.

it gives a scum-buddy vibe.

vote: pom

[manho]

and she is not a hard MM-lynch pusher, while slightly pressuring him with the "why is kast a namecop" comment but not real scum tell, which is more likely bussing.

[manho]

I don't like manho's reiteration of Cuttlefish's recap on Pom. Feels to much like scum trying to grasp onto something to shift attention away from him. If it wasn't exactly what Cuttle had said about Pom and maybe something original, but no. Regarding Pom, she just seems way too apathetic. Its more of a nulltell as I can't really see scum being that open about it.

i haven't noticed cuttlefish's recap.

[manho]

is pom having v/la now or she will be having v/la soon.

[manho]

it should be a "?" instead of a "." in the last post...

[manho]

Unvote. Vote: Pomegranate.

I honestly don't want to wait until Friday for something that probably won't be worth the wait.
manho: She's now V/LA until Friday.

i honestly don't think we can push this lynch before Friday.

[manho]

more pom vote please.

[manho]

i think cuttlefish is scum. zang need to be replaced.

vote: cuttlefish

the case will come later.

[manho]

i was planning a post-by-post analysis on cuttlefish, but some real life stuff prevent it. i will make it tomorrow.

as a starter, you can iso cuttlefish and look for the relation with MM and the different contribution to each wagon.

[manho]

I don't really see the point in claiming miller in the RVS, it certainly raises suspicions...

FOS: SpyreX

Looking more closely at this post (now that I'm not in a rush to get to the cafe), Monkey seems to have knowledge that Spy actually is a miller, especially the "it certainly raises suspicions" with ellipses bit. He says, "I don't see the point in claiming miller," which implies that Monkey thinks Spy is a miller, and then goes on to FoS Spy.
Scummy scum scum scum.

Unvote. Vote: Monkey.

Pomegranate, what do you think of all this Monkey business?

the original quote is a bit weird, but it is definitely not a "scummy scum scum scum" post.

I investigated Orto N0 and the result I got is that he is scum.

Wait wait wait wait.
Ohhhh no you don't.

Zazie is definitely scum. The line quoted by ort in the post above this one pretty much proves it.
I'm thinking that Zazie is a jester, though. I bet someone with an UncertainKitten role would certainly enjoi the rope around his neck, y'know? And his claim seems too obvscummish. I doubt a player of Zazie's experience would do something like that.
Zazie should be vigged.
Monkey should be lynched today.

he continued the bus even when it is obious that one of zazie and ort is scum, (unless they have an unlikely target combination, which is sadly the case).

so Zazier you're essentially claiming that you just happened to investigate the same person to ask you to claim day one; and get a guilty on them*

*without breadcrumbing the guilty in any way

This, Zazie.

Actually, I checked out your iso, and your behaviour

does

fit with your claim. For some reason I thought that you weren't hostile with ort until after he asked you to claim, when in fact you had voted ort as your first post, before he had asked. I'm actually thinking your claim makes you more likely to be town, now; and your stubbornness to not claim is consistent with someone who has a guilty result on the person asking him to claim.
Now I'm not sure what to think. Although there is probably at least one scum in ort/Zazie, I still think that Monkey is the right play for today.

here, he think zazie is town.

I think that ort is town. His early day one claim of role information on Zazie does not strike me as something that scum would do. It's too open for scum to comfortably hide, if you know what I mean.
It's time to start looking at the ort wagon to find the scum. The wagon has built too quickly for it to be town-driven. tajo is way too sure of a scum read on ortolan when I'm getting a town read on ort, so I'm going to start there.
Other good places: ani and manho for their terrible bandwagonny votes.

here, he think ort is town.

only scum will be that sure that those 2 are both town.

SAY WHAT? THE UNCOUNTERCLAIMED MASON FLIPPED TOWN? NO WAY.

Vote: Monkeyman.

We should have done this a long time ago.

after both zazie and ort are lynched, he finally bus monkey to a lynch, but why? except the first quote of this post, he hasn't shown any other reasons for monkey to be scum. he just repeated and repeated "the monkey is scum and should be lynched instead". it shows clearly that he is just bussing monkey without giving out any reasons.

Hey, I've got a question.
Mask, did you send in a roleblock on Zito? I think that ani tracked Zito because he didn't see Zito's warning, but I want to confirm something.
Has anyone else claimed to have their minds shattered?
-----

Pomegranate:

iso0

: "Oh. Hi then, PZ. Also, do you have some sort of doublevote, or is the votecount just messed up?"
This is nothingness.

iso1

: "We don't lynch Spy today."
There is no reason attached. Pom simply says it. She gives a reason in...

iso2

: "I think that we shouldn't lynch SpyreX today, and work off of the quality of his play for the future. I don't see the need to lynch him today. I think that he's playing a miller correctly, and that it fits with the Death Note claim."
This looks kind of like an EBWOP, but it's not. She doesn't add anything new with this post, and I said myself the part about Spy's role flavour making sense between the times of isos 1 and 2. This post is fluff.

iso3

: A throwaway question to kunk, and a promise to post answers to questions tonight.

iso4

: A response to kunk's response. Basically the two of them speculating about Zito's extra vote.

iso5

: Another response to kunk. I don't get the point of this conversation.

iso6

: Responding to Starbuck's question regarding Pom's iso4.

iso7

: Promise to catch up. This is five days after iso6. Pom never does respond to those questions she promised to answer in iso3.

iso8

: "Definitely Vote: ortolan at this point. PZ sums it up nicely."
That's a nice catchup post.

iso9

: Another promise to catch up, this time four days after her last post.

iso10

: This is scummy, now that we know Monkey is scum. Pom supports a mass name claim, but also says that Monkey's flavour doesn't fit and puts the L-2 vote on Monkey.
It's scummy because it's dissonant (am I using the term right?) Pom votes for Monkey, but also supports a mass name claim. If Pom thought Monkey was scum, why did she support the mass claim? It seems like Pom is trying to bus and give Monkey another chance with the mass claim.

iso11

: "Why would Kast be a name cop?"
This basically seems to be the listed reason for her vote. Not a great reason. Looks like bussing to me.

iso12

: An assertion that Monkey should claim his targets, now that he's at L-1.

iso13

: A response to tajo. Basically saying that Monkey gave a paraphrase of his flavour already.
And that's all for yesterday.

iso14

: Asks for clarification on something that I find plenty clear already (i.e. Pom's question looks weak and throwaway), then places the third vote on manho for the reason, "I agree with SpyreX".

In conclusion, Pomegranate is a lurker whose iso is pretty much devoid of independent thought. Her vote on Monkey looks like weak bussing, with a last-ditch (and abandoned; she doesn't bring the mass claim up again after the post where she says she supports it) attempt to save him. This does not look like the town version of Pomegranate I know from Open 175, where she took clear stances against the people she was voting, and provided independent thought through most of the game, most notably when she voted for people, which is what I'm looking at specifically for contrast with this game here.

And I'm so glad I saved this in notepad last night, because the site decided to crash as I was posting it.

On the manho wagon:
this does not look like bussing. If Monkey was wagonned and lynched day one, manho would get no credit for the lynch. It makes no sense for a scumbuddy of Monkey to post that instead of something decent for town cred. In addition, this does not come from scum. Posting that would be like asking to be lynched. I know it's a fallacy, but I think this particular post is too scummy to come from scum. Add that to the fact that I don't think Monkey would claim results on his buddies, and I get that manho is town.
If anyone wants to hear my theory on that, it's that if you claim a rolecop result on a townie, they can be like "Oh yeah! That's my role! You're right! I can support your claim now!" and then get lynched the next day. You can't really do that with scumbuddies.

I could go with an nhammen lynch today as well for the reason Zito stated, but I find Pom scummier.

Vote: Pomegranate.

then we have this, a "big case" on pom, which is pretty much nothing.

The thing is, even if you think Pom is town, there is no downside to lynching Pom today.
You can't argue that it makes us lose a lynch because it brings us from even to odd numbers.
You can't argue that it makes us lose a useful townie because, let's face it, Pom hasn't been useful to us in the past and there's no reason to believe she'll be useful in the future.
Just saying that you think Pom is town is not enough to stop this lynch, because again, there is no downside to lynching Pom, even if she's town.

he is adding some "reasons that don't exist" to the pom lynch.

Hmm - Zang's iso is bad. But it reads almost newbtown instead of newbscum. For example, the double unvote in iso 5 & iso 6 screams lack of interest or not paying attention. Pom's iso screamed more active lurking.

This, Zito. If Zang is scum, it means Reck is probscum.

he is adding some "reasons that don't exist" again to the zang lynch.

in conclusion, cuttlefish knew monkey will flip scum long long ago, and zazie/ort will flip town when the chance was low, then push for the pom mislynch hard, and now the zang lynch.

vote: cuttlefish

[manho]

then we have this, a "big case" on pom, which is pretty much nothing.

Except it included both the same reasons you voted Pom for, hypocrisy.

Vote: xReckx

now is not the time for special plans. Actually his recent "lynch Zang, awesomeness follows" definitely connects them two. If xReckx flips scum, I'm willing to bet Zang is too.

i was not thinking last day. i don't know why i jump on the pom wagon at all. i was following the lead last day. it is scummy to jump on a wagon blindly, like me, but the one behind the wagon is more scummy. and the most influential one is cuttlefish.

the pom case is not the major scum tell in the cuttlefish case, but the fact that he knew zazie and ort were town and knew monkey is scum from the start is the major scum tell.

[manho]

@cuttlefish, why did you know monkey is scum?

[manho]

i was not thinking last day. i don't know why i jump on the pom wagon at all. i was following the lead last day. it is scummy to jump on a wagon blindly, like me, but the one behind the wagon is more scummy. and the most influential one is cuttlefish.

Ummm... let's see what you said earlier:

I don't like manho's reiteration of Cuttlefish's recap on Pom. Feels to much like scum trying to grasp onto something to shift attention away from him. If it wasn't exactly what Cuttle had said about Pom and maybe something original, but no. Regarding Pom, she just seems way too apathetic. Its more of a nulltell as I can't really see scum being that open about it.

i haven't noticed cuttlefish's recap.

So, you were following... But you said you didn't see the initial case... This means you were, what? Following but pretending not to follow? Well, that makes things real easy.

vote manho

i'm following the votes, but not case, or just not that case.

[manho]

manho: It's called READING. This is why we're losing this game. Nobody fucking re-reads. For the Zazie lynch, it would have been plenty clear that he was a cop with a guilty on ort if you had just READ his iso. The ortolan lynch is still stupid as fuck. Your case reads like OMG HOW DID YOU KNOW THE OBVCOP WAS TOWN AND HOW DID YOU KNOW THE MASON WAS TOWN YOU'RE TOO GOOD AT THIS GAME TO BE TOWN!!!11!!11! As for your accusations on me regarding Monkey, he SCUMSLIPPED. I picked up on it. I voted Monkey. Tada~ scum lynched! It's not that hard when you READ THE FUCKING GAME

where did monkey scumslip?

[manho]

cuttlefish's claim is pretty much a replacement for the rolecop, which is always a scum role, at least from my experience.

[manho]

I don't really see the point in claiming miller in the RVS, it certainly raises suspicions...

FOS: SpyreX

Ellipses are scummy, Fingers of Suspicion are scummy (especially in the RVS).

I didn't reach any conclusion, stupid or otherwise.

If you hadn't reached a conclusion, why did you vote for him?

I don't really see the point in claiming miller in the RVS, it certainly raises suspicions...

FOS: SpyreX

Looking more closely at this post (now that I'm not in a rush to get to the cafe), Monkey seems to have knowledge that Spy actually is a miller, especially the "it certainly raises suspicions" with ellipses bit. He says, "I don't see the point in claiming miller," which implies that Monkey thinks Spy is a miller, and then goes on to FoS Spy.
Scummy scum scum scum.

Unvote. Vote: Monkey.

Pomegranate, what do you think of all this Monkey business?

that's the only cuttlefish contents related to Monkey, and none of them seem like a scum slip.

Zito, do you think that both tajo and ort are scum?

ani, are you going to claim your results?

Vote: populartajo.

I think that ort is town. His early day one claim of role information on Zazie does not strike me as something that scum would do. It's too open for scum to comfortably hide, if you know what I mean.
It's time to start looking at the ort wagon to find the scum. The wagon has built too quickly for it to be town-driven. tajo is way too sure of a scum read on ortolan when I'm getting a town read on ort, so I'm going to start there.
Other good places: ani and manho for their terrible bandwagonny votes.

and why shift to tajo if you've gotten a scum slip?

[manho]

We're just waiting on Benmage to finish that 27-page read-through that he's been working on for a week so that he can finally get in here to claim.

manho: At that point I was positive that there was scum behind and on the ortolan wagon because it was such a godawful wagon. Basically, I took to chainsaw-defending ortolan.

and where is the scum slip by Monkey?

[manho]

V/LA until 14/6

i need to add something here so that this post is not exactly the same as my last one

[manho]

Awesome. Manho go

I'm KK, VT. read my iso #2 for the full na,e. have to leave

[manho]

I am Tubby, and I'm a VT, to prevent Tubby's criticisms from having an impact. There's also something about modkilling me if I go to far, but it's only flavor and has no impact on the game. Although, with Zito's kill method being modkill, I'm wondering if dram was bastardy enough to lie to me about it having no effect. I'm guessing it is the truth, but you never know.

Ben and manho, why did you guys not include your flavor? Zito and cuttle did.

I think I'd like Reck to claim next.

flavor? also see my iso #2, but do we have that iso tab here? anyway, KK has claimed miller as scum and survive through endgame and win, but dram thought it is too game-breaking a strategy, so he won't let me to be scum again.

[manho]

who haven't claimed yet, just claim it now.

[manho]

everyone who haven't full name claim and flavor claim should do it now.

[manho]

cuttlefish hasn't answered my question yet, so i'll ask again, and hope cuttlefish notice and answer it.

@cuttlefish (nikanor): where did Monkey scumslip?

[manho]

Mask/kunk/Reck/manho?

Scum all-stars?

mask and kunk are likely, i don't have a read on reck, and manho is definitely town.

[manho]

cuttlefish/nikanor need to be prodded.

[manho]

LET'S LYNCH SOMEONE PLZ

i'd like to lynch cuttlefish, but the mask or kunk is fine. so who do you suggest we lynching?

[manho]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: kunk

[manho]

Hahahahahahaha I'm retarded and while I still want manho lynched my reasoning isn't right. I swear monkey flipped rolecop but sure as hell he didn't.

I officially have lost my brain.

Unvote

So, who is for lynching?

monkey didn't flip rolecop?

...

checking the first page

...

he flipped goon...

[manho]

OHH SNAP HE IS A ROLECOP GAME BACK ON

Unvote, Vote: Manho

Cuttlefish is scum why? Because he's a rolecop. You know, the role we already had flip.

yes it doesn't make sence for the scum to have 2 rolecop... but what if cuttlefish is lying? i can't find the post cuttlefish claimed his target and result without the iso function...

[manho]

ISO is back muhahahahahaha

Why, if a rolecop flipped, would you jump to cuttlefish lying?

it is unlikely that the scum team has 2 rolecop, so if cuttlefish is telling the truth, he is town.
but i have a scum read on cuttlefish, so he need to be lying for me to be right.

[manho]

manho, I've already pointed out that Monkey slipped that Spy was a miller.

I've can't remember why I thought manho was town.

Vote: manho.

Can someone explain why kunk is being wagonned?

sorry i forgot it...

UNVOTE: kunk
VOTE: the mask

[manho]

why mine?

[manho]

why is everyone assuming i'm the scum?

[manho]

no, you are lynching town.

[manho]

to all who think i'm scum, obvscum, likely scum, etc.:

why would scum-monkey rolecop me? or why would scum-monkey lie about the results?

[manho]

I dont like the double votes. I dislike manho's comments on them even worse, compounded with manho's play is just plain bad.

what are you talking about? and bad-play!=scum...

[manho]

reck is the scum here trying to get a quick mis-lynch on me, without giving out a reason, and without looking for other possible scum. benmage is the second one.

@town, stop assuming i am scum. and consider all options first. and don't pile up votes this early.

VOTE: reck

[manho]

manho's "defense" is horribly lacking. It isn't even trying. I don't know what this means at all.

there is not a case presented. so what do you think i can defence?

[manho]

regarding the first quote, i've said that by "start finding ortolan not scum", i mean he went down from sure-scum to scummy-to-netural. i know i have used the wrong word, but i've corrected it in a few post after that one.

and for the second quote, i admitted that i'm scummy for that jump, but you still need to find scum even if you are the one under suspicious.

and for Monkey's namecop results, that is WIFOM, so it is your choice to believe either way. but if i'm scum, i would have claimed the true result and not risk being caught by tracker/watcher/whatever.

[manho]

benmage is scum buddy of reck, but i don't think spy is scum.

I swear monkey flipped rolecop but sure as hell he didn't.

this can't be written by a scum, who knows monkey is the rolecop long before.

[manho]

EBWOP: How did you manho, come to the conclusion I am scum (buddy) with reck, not that I buddied...poor wording on my part.

he has done ... nothing in the first 8 posts, which has an elapsed time of 10 days. and still haven't done much after then.

and this

See i agree with you there spy...sure reck has done an openly poor game, but it seems like an easy piggyback...

he went the "buddy spy" way to defend his buddy reck. spy is likely town, and he saw a chance to support his scummate without giving out himself, and is likely to get support by spy.

[manho]

Oh wait, forgot it JUST became Friday.

Carry on. >>

But seriously, kunk needs to weigh in on manho vs me. His lurking is making me go LOL MANHO BUDDY

I've already put my reasoning down for why manho is scum, might as well put my vote where my mouth is,

Vote: manho.

Also Cuttle brings up a good point regarding Reck and manho. I don't see any reason why they can't both be scum, and Reck is just bussing manho now.

that is not a comparing. go read reck first before deciding who is scummier.

[manho]

EBWOP: How did you manho, come to the conclusion I am scum (buddy) with reck, not that I buddied...poor wording on my part.

he has done ... nothing in the first 8 posts, which has an elapsed time of 10 days. and still haven't done much after then.

and this

See i agree with you there spy...sure reck has done an openly poor game, but it seems like an easy piggyback...

he went the "buddy spy" way to defend his buddy reck. spy is likely town, and he saw a chance to support his scummate without giving out himself, and is likely to get support by spy.

P1: Thats an argument against reck for being scum, not how you believe I am scum.
P2: I've also complained about the fact that a miller is alive at this point in the game.....this is a buddddddyyyy stretch.

1 is for you being scum.

2:

Wow, and here i thought spy had mad a terribad slip. cheers to dreaming.

I don't understand how we have a claimed miller this late in the game alive...goddamn replacing.

you have accused spy and his miller status, but you didn't go any further on it. so i don't think it is a valid counter example for your buddying on spy.

[manho]

i still don't get zazie's guilty result on ortolan.

and i was correct about reck, benmage and cuttlefish...

[manho]

Manho, its more than just knowing who scum are, but convincing the others why they are scum.

yeah, i'm bad at convincing others. and i always screw myself into others' scumlist...