Scummers Mafia: Greatest Bash? (Game Over, Scum wins?)

[Cuttlefish]

You say there's a disadvantage to having one less townie. I'd like to know what you think that is.

[manho]

I don't really see the point in claiming miller in the RVS, it certainly raises suspicions...

FOS: SpyreX

Looking more closely at this post (now that I'm not in a rush to get to the cafe), Monkey seems to have knowledge that Spy actually is a miller, especially the "it certainly raises suspicions" with ellipses bit. He says, "I don't see the point in claiming miller," which implies that Monkey thinks Spy is a miller, and then goes on to FoS Spy.
Scummy scum scum scum.

Unvote. Vote: Monkey.

Pomegranate, what do you think of all this Monkey business?

the original quote is a bit weird, but it is definitely not a "scummy scum scum scum" post.

I investigated Orto N0 and the result I got is that he is scum.

Wait wait wait wait.
Ohhhh no you don't.

Zazie is definitely scum. The line quoted by ort in the post above this one pretty much proves it.
I'm thinking that Zazie is a jester, though. I bet someone with an UncertainKitten role would certainly enjoi the rope around his neck, y'know? And his claim seems too obvscummish. I doubt a player of Zazie's experience would do something like that.
Zazie should be vigged.
Monkey should be lynched today.

he continued the bus even when it is obious that one of zazie and ort is scum, (unless they have an unlikely target combination, which is sadly the case).

so Zazier you're essentially claiming that you just happened to investigate the same person to ask you to claim day one; and get a guilty on them*

*without breadcrumbing the guilty in any way

This, Zazie.

Actually, I checked out your iso, and your behaviour

does

fit with your claim. For some reason I thought that you weren't hostile with ort until after he asked you to claim, when in fact you had voted ort as your first post, before he had asked. I'm actually thinking your claim makes you more likely to be town, now; and your stubbornness to not claim is consistent with someone who has a guilty result on the person asking him to claim.
Now I'm not sure what to think. Although there is probably at least one scum in ort/Zazie, I still think that Monkey is the right play for today.

here, he think zazie is town.

I think that ort is town. His early day one claim of role information on Zazie does not strike me as something that scum would do. It's too open for scum to comfortably hide, if you know what I mean.
It's time to start looking at the ort wagon to find the scum. The wagon has built too quickly for it to be town-driven. tajo is way too sure of a scum read on ortolan when I'm getting a town read on ort, so I'm going to start there.
Other good places: ani and manho for their terrible bandwagonny votes.

here, he think ort is town.

only scum will be that sure that those 2 are both town.

SAY WHAT? THE UNCOUNTERCLAIMED MASON FLIPPED TOWN? NO WAY.

Vote: Monkeyman.

We should have done this a long time ago.

after both zazie and ort are lynched, he finally bus monkey to a lynch, but why? except the first quote of this post, he hasn't shown any other reasons for monkey to be scum. he just repeated and repeated "the monkey is scum and should be lynched instead". it shows clearly that he is just bussing monkey without giving out any reasons.

Hey, I've got a question.
Mask, did you send in a roleblock on Zito? I think that ani tracked Zito because he didn't see Zito's warning, but I want to confirm something.
Has anyone else claimed to have their minds shattered?
-----

Pomegranate:

iso0

: "Oh. Hi then, PZ. Also, do you have some sort of doublevote, or is the votecount just messed up?"
This is nothingness.

iso1

: "We don't lynch Spy today."
There is no reason attached. Pom simply says it. She gives a reason in...

iso2

: "I think that we shouldn't lynch SpyreX today, and work off of the quality of his play for the future. I don't see the need to lynch him today. I think that he's playing a miller correctly, and that it fits with the Death Note claim."
This looks kind of like an EBWOP, but it's not. She doesn't add anything new with this post, and I said myself the part about Spy's role flavour making sense between the times of isos 1 and 2. This post is fluff.

iso3

: A throwaway question to kunk, and a promise to post answers to questions tonight.

iso4

: A response to kunk's response. Basically the two of them speculating about Zito's extra vote.

iso5

: Another response to kunk. I don't get the point of this conversation.

iso6

: Responding to Starbuck's question regarding Pom's iso4.

iso7

: Promise to catch up. This is five days after iso6. Pom never does respond to those questions she promised to answer in iso3.

iso8

: "Definitely Vote: ortolan at this point. PZ sums it up nicely."
That's a nice catchup post.

iso9

: Another promise to catch up, this time four days after her last post.

iso10

: This is scummy, now that we know Monkey is scum. Pom supports a mass name claim, but also says that Monkey's flavour doesn't fit and puts the L-2 vote on Monkey.
It's scummy because it's dissonant (am I using the term right?) Pom votes for Monkey, but also supports a mass name claim. If Pom thought Monkey was scum, why did she support the mass claim? It seems like Pom is trying to bus and give Monkey another chance with the mass claim.

iso11

: "Why would Kast be a name cop?"
This basically seems to be the listed reason for her vote. Not a great reason. Looks like bussing to me.

iso12

: An assertion that Monkey should claim his targets, now that he's at L-1.

iso13

: A response to tajo. Basically saying that Monkey gave a paraphrase of his flavour already.
And that's all for yesterday.

iso14

: Asks for clarification on something that I find plenty clear already (i.e. Pom's question looks weak and throwaway), then places the third vote on manho for the reason, "I agree with SpyreX".

In conclusion, Pomegranate is a lurker whose iso is pretty much devoid of independent thought. Her vote on Monkey looks like weak bussing, with a last-ditch (and abandoned; she doesn't bring the mass claim up again after the post where she says she supports it) attempt to save him. This does not look like the town version of Pomegranate I know from Open 175, where she took clear stances against the people she was voting, and provided independent thought through most of the game, most notably when she voted for people, which is what I'm looking at specifically for contrast with this game here.

And I'm so glad I saved this in notepad last night, because the site decided to crash as I was posting it.

On the manho wagon:
this does not look like bussing. If Monkey was wagonned and lynched day one, manho would get no credit for the lynch. It makes no sense for a scumbuddy of Monkey to post that instead of something decent for town cred. In addition, this does not come from scum. Posting that would be like asking to be lynched. I know it's a fallacy, but I think this particular post is too scummy to come from scum. Add that to the fact that I don't think Monkey would claim results on his buddies, and I get that manho is town.
If anyone wants to hear my theory on that, it's that if you claim a rolecop result on a townie, they can be like "Oh yeah! That's my role! You're right! I can support your claim now!" and then get lynched the next day. You can't really do that with scumbuddies.

I could go with an nhammen lynch today as well for the reason Zito stated, but I find Pom scummier.

Vote: Pomegranate.

then we have this, a "big case" on pom, which is pretty much nothing.

The thing is, even if you think Pom is town, there is no downside to lynching Pom today.
You can't argue that it makes us lose a lynch because it brings us from even to odd numbers.
You can't argue that it makes us lose a useful townie because, let's face it, Pom hasn't been useful to us in the past and there's no reason to believe she'll be useful in the future.
Just saying that you think Pom is town is not enough to stop this lynch, because again, there is no downside to lynching Pom, even if she's town.

he is adding some "reasons that don't exist" to the pom lynch.

Hmm - Zang's iso is bad. But it reads almost newbtown instead of newbscum. For example, the double unvote in iso 5 & iso 6 screams lack of interest or not paying attention. Pom's iso screamed more active lurking.

This, Zito. If Zang is scum, it means Reck is probscum.

he is adding some "reasons that don't exist" again to the zang lynch.

in conclusion, cuttlefish knew monkey will flip scum long long ago, and zazie/ort will flip town when the chance was low, then push for the pom mislynch hard, and now the zang lynch.

vote: cuttlefish

[Starbuck]

You say there's a disadvantage to having one less townie. I'd like to know what you think that is.

Hello, MYLO and LYLO.

Are you really asking me this question?

[nhammen]

However; how is it scummy? I'm saying if the miller card (TM) is getting pulled pull it today. Period. Or confirm me. I can deal with many things but being a lylo patsy is not my flavor.

So, yea, I think massclaim is awesome.

I found a bit scummy because you are trying to direct when the Town can and cannot lynch you... I dunno, I just found it scummy. Plus, Miller makes no difference to me. If I find your actions scummy, I lynch you. Unless a Cop shows up with innocents on most of the scummy players.

And I too can get behind a massclaim.

Not sure why you're waiting to give your 2 cents, SpyreX.

zang need to be replaced.

So manho+zang+Reck are three of the remaining bad boys.


zzzzzzzzzzzzz

Yeah, his secrecy is kinda annoying. I don't get why that quote determines alignment...

How did we go from manho, to Pom, to Zang, hence not back to manho? And why do I see Spyrex at the root of everything..?

OK, what is your opinion of Zang?

ani's voting history is etch-a-sketchy. There has been something about him that's made me keep an eyeball or two on him since early in the game. I'm not beginning to wonder, what with the known town roles, if a tracker leverages out better for town or mafia here. . . . . . Thinking out loud. May come back to this another day.

Agree about voting history, disagree about tracker being scum. They already had a Rolecop, do you really think scum would get TWO rolefinders?

I could have wholeheartedly believed that the plan was to lynch manho or nhammen [by a small margin] based off of their connections [possible + proven] to Monk... no?

Who's plan are you talking about here? Is this what you think scum's plan was, or are you saying this should be Town's plan?

Hey guys.

I have something special for you all.

But we need to lynch Zang tonight before I mention it.

Not you too.... Stop with the secret plans people... Just cuz Spy does it, does not mean it is cool...


@manho's cuttlescum case. I can get behind this too... I think practically everyone left in this game is at least somewhat scummy. Unfortunately. But since I'm not voting anybody, and I find your case at least slightly compelling,

vote cuttle

[nhammen]

EBWOP: slightly

more

compelling.

[animorpherv1]

what? I read pages 23-25 and I'm lost on how this goes to OMG Cuttlefish is scum in 1 or 2 posts flat.

[dramonic]

Votecount 17: Back From The Brink!

Zang (4): SpyreX, Cuttlefish, Reck, Ani
Cuttle (2): Manho, Nhammen
Reck (2): Zito, Starbuck

Not Voting (3): Zang, Kunk, Mask

Kunk has been prodded
Looking for a Zang replacement

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch
Deadline is the 17th.

[kunkstar7]

then we have this, a "big case" on pom, which is pretty much nothing.

Except it included both the same reasons you voted Pom for, hypocrisy.

Vote: xReckx

now is not the time for special plans. Actually his recent "lynch Zang, awesomeness follows" definitely connects them two. If xReckx flips scum, I'm willing to bet Zang is too.

[Cuttlefish]

Hello, MYLO and LYLO.

Are you really asking me this question?

Yeah, and if it was mylo we would have nolynched and would be in exactly the same place we are now. I still fail to see where we've lost anything with the Pom lynch.

the original quote is a bit weird, but it is definitely not a "scummy scum scum scum" post.

He says, "

I don't see the point

in claiming miller." The "I don't see the point" is not something you say to someone who you think might be fakeclaiming.

here, he think zazie is town.

Yes. Zazie's iso fits with what I'd expect of a cop with a guilty.

here, he think ort is town.

He was an uncounterclaimed mason. Not only is it not a big jump from uncounterclaimed mason to town, but ortolan was behaving exactly how I'd imagine him to behave as town.
Have you read my iso12, manho? It shows exactly I didn't follow Zazie's inspection result and instead decided on ortolantown. Why is it not included in your case?

then we have this, a "big case" on pom, which is pretty much nothing.

I showed how Pom had done pretty much nothing all game, and why I thought her stances on Monkey were bussing.

he is adding some "reasons that don't exist" to the pom lynch.

Those are reasons for why Pom shouldn't not be lynched.

he is adding some "reasons that don't exist" again to the zang lynch.

No, that is a reason to lynch Reck if Zang flips scum.

[Starbuck]

You failing to acknowledge that we lost a townie (whether or not she was active) greatly disturbs me.

Unvote
Vote: Cuttlefish

You definitely are not pushing a town agenda.

[Cuttlefish]

Okay. So let's pretend for a minute that it's mylo and Pom hasn't claimed or been lynched. Would you advocate a nolynch, Starbuck?

[dramonic]

Benmage replaces Zang, effective now

[Benmage]

Allo...no clue how Tajo, (Benmage) didn't auto win...

@Tajo

I know your dead and cant talk but zomg! You were me ahaha .

Right well I need to go play some CoD...then i'll start reading this thread, she's not too long yet so I hope to make it a thorough read.

[SpyreX]

I'm also failing to acknowledge that we lost a townie because it doesn't matter one bit.

I REALLY don't like this cuttle-push.

Kunk, can you do me a fav? Can you:

a.) Find manho jumping on based on his case and
b.) Explain if that is the case why in the HELL you'd vote for xReck of manho?

[kunkstar7]

I'm also failing to acknowledge that we lost a townie because it doesn't matter one bit.

I REALLY don't like this cuttle-push.

Kunk, can you do me a fav? Can you:

a.) Find manho jumping on based on his case and
b.) Explain if that is the case why in the HELL you'd vote for xReck of manho?

A) The point wasn't whether he did or did not use Cuttle's case, it was that they both had the same reasoning, which manho's discounts cuttle's reasoning even though Cuttle's reasoning included what manho said his reasoning was. Examples...

Cuttle's Pomvote post says:

In conclusion, Pomegranate is a lurker whose iso is pretty much devoid of independent thought. Her vote on Monkey looks like weak bussing, with a last-ditch (and abandoned; she doesn't bring the mass claim up again after the post where she says she supports it) attempt to save him.

He also mentions the massclaim idea from Monkey that Pom supports as connection and the "Kast is namecop" comment as bussing.

i've skimmed through pom's posts as i don't have much time. and this post is strange:

Moneky, I want a paraphrase of your whole PM.

Now.

...

He basically gave it. But it was very short and nondescript.

it gives a scum-buddy vibe.

vote: pom

Kunk Addition

:

and she is not a hard MM-lynch pusher, while slightly pressuring him with the "why is kast a namecop" comment but not real scum tell, which is more likely bussing.

They both point out that Pom looks like she is bussing, even mentioning the same situation regarding Kast, but manho decides that Cuttle's version is worthless apparently?


B) Because apparently the manho push is not today's action, even though its obv hes scummy. Might as well get one of his partners and push the connection stuff tomorrow as well.

[SpyreX]

Yea - we're getting forest and trees issues here in saying the same thing.

IF that is the case, and it sure as hell looks like it, that -probably- would be where I'd done vote over Zang maaaybe.

b.) Is a HUGE issue because this miller-gate needs to be resolved AND we've got apathy walls AND that single piece alone may easily make manho a better lynch.

Unvote

I think it may be that massclaim time for reals though.

[manho]

then we have this, a "big case" on pom, which is pretty much nothing.

Except it included both the same reasons you voted Pom for, hypocrisy.

Vote: xReckx

now is not the time for special plans. Actually his recent "lynch Zang, awesomeness follows" definitely connects them two. If xReckx flips scum, I'm willing to bet Zang is too.

i was not thinking last day. i don't know why i jump on the pom wagon at all. i was following the lead last day. it is scummy to jump on a wagon blindly, like me, but the one behind the wagon is more scummy. and the most influential one is cuttlefish.

the pom case is not the major scum tell in the cuttlefish case, but the fact that he knew zazie and ort were town and knew monkey is scum from the start is the major scum tell.

[manho]

@cuttlefish, why did you know monkey is scum?

[Papa Zito]

woooow

The Mask (1): kunkstar

ZazieR

(8):

Ortolan

, Papa Zito, Nhammen,

Monkeyman

, SpyreX, Ani, Manho, Starbuck, The Mask, Zang

Ortolan

(2):

ZazieR

, Niv

Monkeyman

(3):

Cow

, Cuttlefish,

Diacria

Not Voting (3):

Pomegranate

,

RisingPheonix

Scum are protecting the Zazie wagon.

Ortolan

(9):

PopularTajo

, Kunkstar, Manho, Nhammen, Ani, Papa Zito,

Pomegranate

, SpyreX,

Monkeyman

Monkeyman

(1):

Ortolan

PopularTajo

(1): Cuttlefish
Nhammen (1):

Diacria

Not Voting (4): Niv, The Mask, Zang, Starbuck

Nik somehow forgot his Monkey hate D2 and went after Tajo.

[Benmage]

Still workin on this read through...PZ, with that last post you saying Cuttle is scum, or that scum are on the Zazier wagon?

[Papa Zito]

I'm saying both. Nik was bussing and a couple of his friends were on the Zazie wagon.

[SpyreX]

The amount of dead in here is disgusting.

Lets do the massclaim. Make it happen zeeets

[Papa Zito]

Arrite.

y halo thar, I'm Tarhalindur. My super mod screw powers means that targeting me breaks your puny human brains.

I also have a one-shot modkill in my back pocket that I haven't used yet but plan on using tonight. (gasp)

Nik, go.

[nhammen]

then we have this, a "big case" on pom, which is pretty much nothing.

Except it included both the same reasons you voted Pom for, hypocrisy.

Why hello there! Hadn't realized this. And it was staring everyone in the face. Good catch kunk!

Vote: xReckx

now is not the time for special plans. Actually his recent "lynch Zang, awesomeness follows" definitely connects them two. If xReckx flips scum, I'm willing to bet Zang is too.

So this is a bus? Hmmm... I could see that. With how fast the wagon grew, if Zang is scum, then scum had to have bussed him. This means, either way, there are probably scum on the Zang wagon. Cool.

Hello, MYLO and LYLO.

Are you really asking me this question?

Yeah, and if it was mylo we would have nolynched and would be in exactly the same place we are now. I still fail to see where we've lost anything with the Pom lynch.

No, if we were in MYLO, we could lynch Pom. Now, if we end up in MYLO, we No Lynch instead. The Pom lynch could CAUSE a later No Lynch. Bad.

That part was brainless not scummy, and the rest of that post looks like a good defense.

unvote

I'm also failing to acknowledge that we lost a townie because it doesn't matter one bit.

Wait to say that... It could matter very much.

i was not thinking last day. i don't know why i jump on the pom wagon at all. i was following the lead last day. it is scummy to jump on a wagon blindly, like me, but the one behind the wagon is more scummy. and the most influential one is cuttlefish.

Ummm... let's see what you said earlier:

I don't like manho's reiteration of Cuttlefish's recap on Pom. Feels to much like scum trying to grasp onto something to shift attention away from him. If it wasn't exactly what Cuttle had said about Pom and maybe something original, but no. Regarding Pom, she just seems way too apathetic. Its more of a nulltell as I can't really see scum being that open about it.

i haven't noticed cuttlefish's recap.

So, you were following... But you said you didn't see the initial case... This means you were, what? Following but pretending not to follow? Well, that makes things real easy.

vote manho

the pom case is not the major scum tell in the cuttlefish case, but the fact that he knew zazie and ort were town and knew monkey is scum from the start is the major scum tell.

When Zazie first claimed, cuttle jumped on him. After ISOing Zazie, he changed his mind. Doesn't read like foreknowledge.

Arrite.

y halo thar, I'm Tarhalindur. My super mod screw powers means that targeting me breaks your puny human brains.

I also have a one-shot modkill in my back pocket that I haven't used yet but plan on using tonight. (gasp)

Nik, go.

And THIS is why we should have waited to kill Pom. Just because we are in even players now, does not mean that things will stay that way. We should have saved Pom until MYLO.

[Cuttlefish]

Hi.
I'm Xylthixlm, creator of Xylbot. I know pretty much every role. I can investigate one person each night to find the category of their role. I asked for clarification from dram, and apparently this means I can see if someone is an Informative, Manipulative, Voting, Protective, or Killing role. Goons and Townies both show up as Vanilla to me.

n0 I inspected Neto (yes, the dead guy. If you want to know why I picked Neto read Mini 922. I can't read Neto worth a damn) and was told he was a protective role.
n1 I investigated Spy and was told he was a manipulative role.
n2 I investigated Monkey and was told he was an informative role.
n3 I investigated Pom, but was told that Zito is a manipulative role and had my mind smashed to bits.


nhammen: We were at even numbers before the Pom lynch. We're at odd numbers now. That's why I am saying there was no disadvantage to the Pom lynch.

manho: It's called READING. This is why we're losing this game. Nobody fucking re-reads. For the Zazie lynch, it would have been plenty clear that he was a cop with a guilty on ort if you had just READ his iso. The ortolan lynch is still stupid as fuck. Your case reads like OMG HOW DID YOU KNOW THE OBVCOP WAS TOWN AND HOW DID YOU KNOW THE MASON WAS TOWN YOU'RE TOO GOOD AT THIS GAME TO BE TOWN!!!11!!11! As for your accusations on me regarding Monkey, he SCUMSLIPPED. I picked up on it. I voted Monkey. Tada~ scum lynched! It's not that hard when you READ THE FUCKING GAME

Benmage is next on the claim list.