Riddle Me This! NY111 - mafia dead - Town wins!

[scotmany12]

/confirm

[scotmany12]

Why do you want to derail the izzy wagon?

I certainly have not said nothing to derail the izzy wagon. What makes you think that?

Saying that you want to start a counterwagon implies that you want to derail the wagon.

Vote: RichardGHP

[scotmany12]

Kills in the coming days/nights will obviously be an aid to us in finding potential scum, though we can't use that today (unless we have a dayvig), and that is partly why I don't scumhunt on Day 1 (or at least as well I would other days).

Wait..what?
Did anyone else see this? How is not scumhunting productive? Obviously no one will have as good an idea Day 1 as they do each next Day but that shouldn't stop you from trying

Yeah, I saw it. I'm currently content with my vote on Richard.

[scotmany12]

I should say that its more Richard's unvote of Anon and then vote on izzy which is why im voting for him.

[scotmany12]

I should say that its more Richard's unvote of Anon and then vote on izzy which is why im voting for him.

I don't understand why that's scummy.

Had he voted Izzy right away, I would have had no problem with it. I don't like his vote for anon, then unvote and vote for izzy, as if him voting for izzy would somehow please the other players.

[scotmany12]

Mipe, why did you vote me in 87?

1. It was semi-random vote.

2. I thought you were bit scummish.

For now, it seems like dahill was trying to manipulate the town votes without being noticed, but failed at that.

Unvote, Vote: dahill1

What exactly about Anon did you find scummish?

[scotmany12]

What exactly about Anon did you find scummish?

Something about the fact that his first post was just a vote and didn't say anything else, well, I got a bad feeling about that <_<

+ something about how stupid it is to only have 1 wagon and one should have multiple wagons.

That is basically it.

Could you explain a little bit more? I mean, he wasn't the only one who's first post was just a vote.

I dislike the stall of the Izzy wagon.

Although, I sincerely have no idea on why the wagon is happening. Why anyway? Is this some Meta-Nazi ploy, trying to lynch off the proverbial 'Jews' or something?

Still, this will move town forwards. So here.

unvote, vote Izzy

Seriously? If you don't know what the Izzy wagon is for, why are you on it? If your best guess is that it's a completely pointless venture, why are you on it?

unvote, vote: VasudeVa

Blatant opportunism.

To be fair, I don't see a big issue with dahill's distinction between anti-town and scummy, although the "did anyone else see this" part does make it a bit more difficult for me to believe that he didn't find Richard scummy.

Big early wagons make people claim. Since this is a closed set-up, I'd like some early claims so we know what we can use against scum. GTFO my strategy.

Seriously, what's wrong with you? Every post I make, you go all out and criticize it, possibly getting the lynch on my neck. I do not know you from anywhere in this site, nor has the game gone far enough for you to be tunneling on me. I dislike it.

FoS Korts

Vote: VasudeVa

Why would you force someone to claim basically on nothing? I don't like that. Yes, it's day one, but you can still scumhunt. Plenty of scum have been caught on day one in previous games. We shouldn't force people to claim just to find out their role, and I see no town reason to do what you are doing.

Also, that FoS on korts screams omgus. It's a huge appeal to emotion, and as far as I can tell you are upset that he voted for you. Also, how is korts tunneling on you at all?

[scotmany12]

Realized I forgot to unvote.

Unvote, Vote: VasudeVa

Im voting for you cause you'd rather push for a claim based on nothing rather than scumhunt. Also, just because Korts is voting for you doesn't mean he is tunneling. He has addressed other people so far as well. And you just called both korts and me scum basically because we voted for you.

[scotmany12]

What? No, I was waiting for more interactions BEFORE I scumhunt. Jeesus, I didn't say that I would push for a claim THEN scumhunt, I was going to see if I get a claim, if not then I'll try my best to scumhunt. Yes, but I dislike him getting of the wagon he originally started only to vote for me for some reason.

This is exactly why im voting for you. You are pushing for someone to claim for nothing instead of scumhunting when there is plenty of stuff going on to scumhunt off of. That doesn't help the town at all. Scumhunting should not be a secondary option if forcing someone to claim fails; scumhunting is the town's most powerful tool. Also, if Korts has a reason to vote for you, why shouldn't he get off the izzy wagon? Why shouldn't he get off of a wagon that was started randomly to pursue someone he finds scummy?

I do see why he would find it as blatant opportunism. However the main difference between me and the other people on the wagon is my attempt at transparency. Everyone else voted without trying to even explain it. So, why tunnel on me when there could be other people to target?

No one is tunneling on you.

Is it like a "pro" move to suddenly vote for people without explaining your actions if you are town? I do not comprehend. Please explain.

...both me and Korts have explained why we switched our votes to you.

Also, what people seem to be misunderstanding is that

I never thought GHP was scummy in the first place

. Furthermore, my "Did anyone else see this?" was not meant as a "Look here everybody! Someone scummy". When someone says a statement like "I don't scumhunt Day 1" that automatically sticks out in my mind, and no one had seemed to have noticed it so I asked that question.

You're wording of your post addressing him implies otherwise. People don't believe you when you said "Did anyone else see this?" as that sounds like you were drawing attention to him and trying to get others to vote for him. Your first action was to make sure everyone else was aware of this before telling Richard what was wrong with that.

[scotmany12]

I think that getting power roles to claim would be cool though. Stuff like, knowing a princess so we can protect or a day-vig we can use. I read somewhere that townies unconciously do want to claim. We can take their claims with a grain of salt. If they lied, it's an easy lynch.

No...we want to keep power roles hidden. What if you were to force izzy to claim and she came out to be a doc? That would be a bad situation. Forcing people to claim is just giving the scum more information.

[scotmany12]

Woah you'd jump on someone's wagon because of a meta you'd never even seen before?

Yes, because I'm a prejudicing SOB.

What's up with the 1 sentence posts? Post longer or I will ride your wagon.

Wait...what? You'd be willing to switch to the Dahill wagon because he only posts one sentence posts? Not because he is scummy and that you dislike his interaction with Richard? How is only posting one sentence posts scummy at all? It's not like his posts are void of all content.

[scotmany12]

What's up with the 1 sentence posts? Post longer or I will ride your wagon.

Yes, because short posts means scum, right? Very "experienced" of you.

And scot, would you place me as second scummiest behind Vas then right now? Just wondering.

Yes, but it's a big gap between you and VasudeVa right now.

[scotmany12]

I am not going to excuse VasudeVa's scummy actions simply because he is new, and I don't think any of you should either. If he read all those games he says he has read, then he would know that pushing someone to claim when there is no case hurts the town. He would know that outing powerroles hurts the town. He is deliberately doing something antitown. I'm not going to let him slide by on the defense of that he is a noob. And I don't like how he has stuck to the "I'm a newb" defense.

[scotmany12]

Vote scot

Don't like the way he is going so hard on Vasud, given his possible genuine newbishness.
Don't like his use of 'we' (him and Korts) while replying to Vasud.
Note here that I actually agree with Scot on Vasud playing the newbie card, however I think Vasud's alignment is exactly crapshot at this point, and town, especially more experienced town, is more likely to let it slide for now and see, and him being obtuse about is un-seemingly town for me.

A question to TSQ, why are you all over the place? Also, is that normal for you as town?

I don't get this at all. I shouldn't be aggressive against someone I think is scum simply because of his newbiness? We should not be excusing scummy behavior simply because he is new.

And I'm not really going "I'M NEWB I'M NEWB" here, what I was doing was calculated to some extent. How ever it's purely "Hey, this makes sense!" rather than "Hey, will this work?"

Yes, you are.

Unfortunately, this is my second game of mafia ever. So it's probably some of my noobishness. Feel free to study my meta on Newbie 902 though, which is my first ever mafia game. Although I have read LOTS of games, which should explain why I'm semi well-versed.

I do have a little clue to what I'm talking about, just not on the repercussions it might have. I won't be claiming pro here, I'm a newbie through and through.

My newb senses saw it as tunneling. That and I'm a paranoid little mofo. Sue me.

Not really pushing, more like hoping that someone will claim. Anyway I don't really feel like voting for you now since taking this much effort to correct noobish little me is not something that scum would do. Korts, on the other hand..... I'll wait on his response.

You sure as hell are playing the newbie card.

[scotmany12]

Scot I guess my question to you is "why are you focusing on it?" It seems to me that you think he's playing the noob card, is there some reason you'd be more likely to expect noob scum to play the newbie card more than noob town that I've never heard of? In my experience, they tend to play it about equally. It's also my experience that noob players dont REALIZE that they're "playing" as much as they're just trying to apologize for their own inexperience, and thats what it seems to me that vas is doing here.

I mean, he IS a noob. Why is this a reason to pursue him, and if it isn't, then why are you pursuing him?

also, you're reaching. I don't remember the context of the other two quotes, but the first and second ones were both directly responding to players asking if he was new/had a meta, and calling him new. In fact, the first and second quotes, when read from that context actually show him NOT pulling the newb card, because he goes out of his way to point out that he also has experience and that he's not that new. Are you tunnelling this early? Why?

Him being a noob isn't why i'm pursuing him. I'm pursuing him because he wanted to get Izzy to claim off of nothing, he omgus both me and korts, and I think he is exploiting where others have called him a noob. Someone who has read ten games as he has said would know its not helpful to the town to get a cop to claim. And I hate how he would choose to do that over scumhunt. I don't get a noob town vibe from him. I'm getting a noob scum vibe from him who has latched onto what others say about him being a newb, and using that as his defense.

And I looked at his posts in iso. And those first two might be responses to others about his meta. First of all, I don't see why he would include the line "So it's probably some of my noobiness" in the first one unless he was going to exploit it. Before anyone started questioning his logic, he said he was semi-wellversed, then when people started calling him new and clueless, he stuck onto that. It reads to me as someone who is trying to exploit what others have said about him. Am I making sense here?

I don't think I'm tunneling. I'm pursuing someone I think is scum. I am still waiting for mipe to answer my questions, and Im waiting for the replacements input. As far as I can tell, there is like 7 really active people, and the rest are sitting back and lurking which isn't good.

In particular, his unvote then revote on dahill looks fairly town to me - he originally is voting dahill because he still likes the claims idea, then he gets bashed around a bit on that theory and unvotes, then he votes dahill for a different reason (i.e. the case he originally dismissed before tsq spelt it out for him.)

No...he was voting for izzy first, then moved unto the dahill wagon. Also, as far as I'm aware, he is voting for dahill because he doesn't like his content level, not the case that you and TSQ are pursuing.

I don't want to lynch Dizzy because a) there was literally nothing to go on when the wagon started (I believe it was even pushed pregame), b) there are now lynches that actually have merit to them and c) because Dizzy is a very good player, one that could greatly help the town, especially in later rounds.

Also, guys, if you don't want to call me Richard for fear of confusion, just put GHP on the end of it. I'd prefer that you didn't just put GHP on its own.

Why does C mean that we should not lynch her at all? If she doesn't something scummy would you let her live because she is a good player?

[scotmany12]

Because anti town, if you dont think its a scummy is not a useful thing for the town to know. There's no point. Town aren't basing their votes on it, so it's just noise.

Are you saying its not helpful to point out anti-town actions if you don't think they are scummy? Or am I just reading this wrong?

[scotmany12]

I'm not trying to, I just don't really have anything to say. I'm just posting occasionally to make sure people (especially the mod) know I'm still here...

And yeah English is my first language, although I don't even know why you said that...

What do you think of the votes on me?

What do you think of the wagon on dahill? How about the votes on VasudeVa?

Who do you think is scum?

[scotmany12]

I'm really not tunneling. I haven't been ignoring other wagons. Really the only two other wagons (until of late) were izzy and dahill's. I said I found dahill scummy, but that Vas was scummier. And izzy's wagon was a random wagon so there was little point to it.

dahill is still overexplaining himself; I could still vote there, but did I mention I like wagons on Day 1?

How is hill overexplaing himself?

IGMEOY Korts, you've been pretty worthless so far this game.

You have been far more worthless than korts. Same with you Quag. I really am not seeing how korts is being worthless.

AT Richard: Why did you not respond to my post where I asked you why was the fact that you view izzy as a good player a reason not to pursue a lynch of her? Also why exactly are you voting for dahill? You never gave a reason.

[scotmany12]

Back. First a "GIT YO FILTHY VOTES OFFA ME IM TOWN" post. Because no self-respecting townie should let town waste a lynch on him

Then a post dedicated to scumhunting(hopefully, if I still have energy. I came from a 5 hour drive, the only reason I'm here is because I can't sleep)

Him being a noob isn't why i'm pursuing him. I'm pursuing him because he wanted to get Izzy to claim off of nothing, he omgus both me and korts, and I think he is exploiting where others have called him a noob. Someone who has read ten games as he has said would know its not helpful to the town to get a cop to claim. And I hate how he would choose to do that over scumhunt. I don't get a noob town vibe from him. I'm getting a noob scum vibe from him who has latched onto what others say about him being a newb, and using that as his defense.

And scumhunt to what exactly, at precisely those points in the game. The only wagon before my wagon was dahill's wagon. And I did explicitly say that I wasn't convinced then. My vote is used in this priority:
1. Start/Join Wagon on scummy people.
2. Do something I perceive as pro-town with the vote
3. Start/Join Wagon on suspicious people
Pay more attention to the timeline of events will ya?

Forgot to respond to this part. Why are you ignoring part of what I said? You say you have read games. So why do you think its a good idea to have someone claim? As someone who has read ten games, you would know pushing people to randomly claim is not protown.

[scotmany12]

@scotmany: Are you (edited before submission, for vulgarity) serious? All Korts has done is criticise others (notably mine) and their play, with the occasional decent post lurking somewhere in the mix. Sure, he's posting on a relatively frequent basis, but with the content of his posts, I get a really aggressive, frustrated and arrogant townie read from him. In my experience, those type of townies usually tend to get wrong gut reads and end up hurting the town because of their arrogance, and, on occasion, eccentricity.

@scotmany: Are you !@#$ing serious? I don't want to lynch Dizzy (at least at the moment; this may change later on) because she's a good player. I needn't give any more explanation than that. A productive lynch arrives when it isn't on the first, informationless wagon of Day 1.

If you have a townie read on korts, then why did you IGMEOY him?

[scotmany12]

Actually, I was referring to the whole "being worthless" part, but townies with attidutes like his generally don't help the town. Hence the IGMEOY.

Generally people use IGMEOY on people they think might be scum. And you never answered my question. Why are you voting for dahill? You never explained your vote.

[scotmany12]

Why me korts why?

haha yah I keep forgetting abouts this game becasue Im always playing theme games haha

Terribad defense. Replace out if you're not gonna play.

Either bored VT or scum trying to find an excuse for lurking. Can't really study his meta because search is broken. Sounds more like bored VT though, due to the noobish vibe I'm getting.

Either way, I'm fine with policy lynching him.

Might move here later depending on the dahill wagon.

Are you serious here?

[scotmany12]

RichardGHP:

Actually, I was referring to the whole "being worthless" part, but townies with attidutes like his generally don't help the town. Hence the IGMEOY.

Generally people use IGMEOY on people they think might be scum. And you never answered my question. Why are you voting for dahill? You never explained your vote.

Please respond.

[scotmany12]

Totally gut, but scot reads like he's fake-asking questions to seem productive. Didn't someone earlier notice something like this?

It was inhim I believe. And could one of you two point out exactly where you get this feeling?

[scotmany12]

I finally just read GHP case on dahill, and it is honestly crap

Doing a dahill ISO read...

Well, scumhunting is good, because is they accidentally do something wrong, we know who the scum is. So Richard?

This kinda seems like ksun just wanted something to write, so he put an obvious statement (albeit incorrect as TSQ pointed out). At least write something to make us think you're not blatantly piggybacking.

I have no idea where in the world he got this from, and it honestly seems kind of hypocritical. Stating the obvious tells you nothing about the player. Therefore it is not a scumtell, therefore dahill had no town motivation to point this out.

How in the world is it hypocritical? Dahill thought that ksun was just posting for the sake of posting, and wanted ksun to provide more to the game. That's town motivation to say something like that. And dahill didn't even say what ksun did was a scumtell. You're reaching.

Since when does me saying "look at this" imply that I think it's scummy? It's more like "look at this. this is ridiculous, anti-town and needs to changed"

Your sentences are synonymous. I don't like your contradictory reasoning here. While contradictions are not scumtells (nobody has the motivation to contradict themselves), they have a higher chance of coming from scum, especially such a contradiction as this. It's like trying to differentiate between lemonade and sparkling water just by looking at them. The normal eye will have a hard time doing so.

They are not synonymous. There is a difference between antitown and scummy. People do antitown actions all the time, and they believe that they are helping the town in doing so.

I wasn't implying that I "caught" anyone. It was more of a "woah check this out". I can see how you and TSQ could be thinking that I'm scum trying to boost my "townie cred" by spotting an illogical (bad logic = scum, duh) scumbag, but I think you're reading into it too much.

By your own admittance, you pointed out an anti-town occurence and then deny that you "caught" it, which you in fact did if I'm interprating this correctly. Also, why should we not read into it too much? We're trying to play a serious game, and you have to read every post between the lines.

See, you're reasoning is different than shanba's and tsq's. You're not mentioning that it looked like dahill was trying to influence the town. You're sticking onto the idea that because dahill was pointing out an antitown action, he must have thought that you were scum. I don't even think you are considering that hill could have been trying to simply correct something. Really, you aren't reading between the lines at all.

Also, what people seem to be misunderstanding is that

I never thought GHP was scummy in the first place.

SO WHY THE HELL DID YOU POINT IT OUT IN THE FIRST PLACE?

Hill has already answered this. He says he was trying to correct someone's play

Yes, because short posts means scum, right? Very "experienced" of you.

No, but they most certainly do not mean town.

I don't even know what this means. Length of posts has nothing to do with whether someone is town or not. The content of the posts do.

That's not true at all. Little content means little town contribution, but I'd like to say I've significantly contributed so far. If you're looking for no contribution, then you're barking up the wrong tree.

And lol @ I'm trying to redirect attention to you. You seem to think that everyone who asks you a question or is critical of you in the slightest is TUNNELING SCUM!!!

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is just you switching to (in your words) the "eas[ier]" wagon even when you just said you didn't think I was scummy.

I don't see how it's possible to have large contributions in small posts. Also did you seriously just use that as your basis to vote Vas? That's absolutely ridiculous.

Content is content is content. Length of posts mean nothing. Someone who posts a lot of shorts posts that are meaningful has contributed to the game. Why are you focusing on the length of hill's posts and not the content of them? Also, how is his reasoning ridiculous? You can't just say that and then not explain why.

As for yours, to be completely honest, I can't really think of any other way to explain or defend it. You guys interpreted my post in one way and I meant for it in another way.

I really don't know what to make of this post... it just comes off as really lazy.

Regardless of whether or not it is lazy, how does that make dahill scum?

Dahill: Anti-town's are not necessarily scummy?

Yes..

I lol'd. Give me one example of an anti-town action that ISN'T scum-like.

Antitown and scummy are not synonymous. The motivation behind the action is huge. Players can perform antitown actions while not have the intent to hurt the town.

What is up with this game and people admitting that they're doing nothing (see Richard Massive)?

If you realize that you a burden to the town, then do something about it! You're not helping your case much at all.

While lurkers/active lurkers can be annoying and anti-town at times, doing nothing is not an action performed exclusively or even predominatly performed by scum.

Once again, dahill never even called Richard Massive scum. You're trying to twist whatever dahill said into something scummy. I read this post by dahill as him calling Richard Massive to contribute more, not that he thinks he is scum.

You're entire case seems contrived. It looks like, because I asked for you reasoning, you went back and tried to make dahill look as scummy as possible, trying to twist the majority of what he says into a scummy action. You're trying to pursue an easy lynch, and when questioned about your vote, you put out a case which is entirely contrived.

Unvote, Vote: RichardGHP

[scotmany12]

I was gonna answer to GHP's case, but Scot pretty much did for me..

And while it is an awful case and I agree with Scot on GHP, I also don't like how Scot answered all of the questions that were directed at me. He does seem to geniunely think GHP is scummy but this could easily just be bussing/two scum groups present. I still have to check out Frogs Mafia

His case is posted there for everyone. I attacked the validity of his case. That involved me addressing questions that were posed at you. You're still free to answer them. I don't think there was any place I really answered for you, except where he asked:

Also, what people seem to be misunderstanding is that

I never thought GHP was scummy in the first place.

SO WHY THE HELL DID YOU POINT IT OUT IN THE FIRST PLACE?

[scotmany12]

I really just don't feel like making a case on anyone right now. I know I said I'd do it, but yeah, I'm lazy. >__>

However, I don't understand the whole "antitown isn't necessarily scummy" thing from scot.

They are not synonymous. There is a difference between antitown and scummy. People do antitown actions all the time, and they believe that they are helping the town in doing so.

I'd just like you to explain this for me. If a townie unwittingly does anti-town things, it's still scummy. I don't think the fact that that person is a townie has any bearing on the situation. Fact is, despite the fact that that person is a townie, we as players cannot know that for sure. To that person, sure, the action wasn't scummy, but to everyone else, it is. (I'm aware that this paragraph is worded extremely strangely/might not make sense to you guys. I just got done doing three hours of homework, and my brain is a little fried.)

Anyway, I'd appreciate it if you guys asked me specific questions just to help me get into the flow of the game. I've never replaced into a game before, and I'm not quite sure where to start. I know that sounds weird, but whatever.

I'm off to play the Perfect Dark port released on the XBLA today. I'll be back tonight, probably.

Okay, the way I see it is like this, antitown actions do not help the town, and can be extremely detrimental, while scummy actions are made to further the scum agenda. Now antitown actions can certainly be scummy, but not all of them are. For example, lurking is pretty much always antitown, but its not always scummy. And what you just did in this post, claim to not make a case do to laziness, is antitown. I don't particularly view that as scummy. Really, the context of the action is extremely important. Does this make sense?

[scotmany12]

Yeah, I'm not liking the mipe wagon. Just seems like he is a player that doesn't really care, and that is not mutually exclusive with scum.

[scotmany12]

Yeah, I'm not liking the mipe wagon. Just seems like he is a player that doesn't really care, and that is not mutually exclusive with scum.

What do you propose we do then? Just let him play as he is now?

I propose we look for scum. Not policy lynch someone who everyone is disappointed in. As quag has said, the goal is to find scum.

[scotmany12]

Why do you think mipe is town?

Why do you think Anon is scum? Burden of proof lies on those trying to lynch him.

[scotmany12]

EBWOP: Why do you think mipe is scum.

[scotmany12]

Yeah, I'm not liking the mipe wagon. Just seems like he is a player that doesn't really care, and that is not mutually exclusive with scum.

What do you propose we do then? Just let him play as he is now?

I propose we look for scum. Not policy lynch someone who everyone is disappointed in. As quag has said, the goal is to find scum.

Well, personally, I do find his actions scummy but that besides the point for this question. Let me rephrase, what do you propose we do with mipe then?

Not lynch him. Tolerate him. There are plenty of players around this site that have an antitown style of play. You need to tolerate them. Policy lynching them is not helpful.

[scotmany12]

mipe claim and/or die

Why would mipe claim at lynch -2?

[scotmany12]

@iamusername...RichardGHP did basically the same thing as sora in regards to has, Richard's was worth imo. What do you think of his "case" against dahill?

[scotmany12]

This mipe wagon is horrible.

[scotmany12]

Sorry for my absence as of late. I've been having slightly the same problem as shea here, school has been hectic for me this week.

[scotmany12]

@Fonz, what do you think of RichardGHP? Also FeFiFoFum too?

[scotmany12]

What the hell are you even saying Zoraster? First off, you didn't even read my posts if you think my one gripe against Vas was that he went after Korts. There was far more to it.

And secondly, I'm attacking people for attacking others? What the hell does that even mean. I think RichardGHP is scum because of his case against dahill. It was opportunistic, and contrived as hell. Did you even read my post on him? I attacked the validity of his case, not once did I say I think dahill is town. It seems like you are trying to accuse me of chainsaw defense, which doesn't work unless you know the alignment of dahill. Basically, your whole post condemning me makes absolutely no sense.

TheFonz case on izzy is fairly bad.

Mipe wagon is still awful. Ksun wagon has merit. Still prefer RichardGHP, who has never even responded to my post against him. inhim is pretty scummy too. I need to reread the case on paltry before I form an opinion.

[scotmany12]

I dislike the lame scum hunt attempt at the end. What are you trying to achieve with that?

To let people know where I stand at the moment. What I posted is hardly what I would consider an attempt at scumhunting.

scot, people asked for my dahill case, I gave it to them. Would you rather I just voted him with no explanation?

Also, today is my designated catching up day, so if you have questions for me to answer, please repost them.

You never answered any of the questions I posed in my post against you.

[scotmany12]

scot, people asked for my dahill case, I gave it to them. Would you rather I just voted him with no explanation?

Also, today is my designated catching up day, so if you have questions for me to answer, please repost them.

You never answered any of the questions I posed in my post against you.

Read the last sentence.

I posted my case against you on page 13. You had plenty of time to respond and were active in this very game.

[scotmany12]

That's your catching up? You have got to be kidding me. That post was all flash, with little if any substance.

I'd say it is more likely for town to lose interest. Regardless, it's a null tell and is not exclusive to any role.

Now respond to my case. Just because you don't have your vote on dahill anymore doesn't change the fact that your case against him was contrived as hell. You moving your vote does not give you an excuse to not respond to a legitimate case against you. I asked you questions in that post that I want answered.

[scotmany12]

How the hell am I being a hypocrite?

[scotmany12]

That wouldn't be something i could argue if you did it just once. I'm arguing you make a pattern of this, with mipe being just the most obvious because you've repeatedly done it without offering any real reason that it is bad. I think as you've gotten busier in real life, you haven't been able to devote the same time to making the defense sound plausible, so you think throwing out a "wagon is awful" will still qualify you for the defense points you've been striving for all game.

What are you talking about? Who else have I defended in this game? You totally misread my whole attack on VasudeVa, saying I only attacked him because he attacked korts, which is flat out wrong. And me attacking the validity of RichardGHP case against dahill does not mean im defending dahill. It means I think Richard is scum due to his contrived, insincere case against dahill. The only wagon I have said I disliked (besides the izzy wagon which was pretty much random) was mipes.

[scotmany12]

Going to get something up tomorrow. Been having a bad day and dont have any motivation to do something tonight.

[scotmany12]

Hey guys. Sorry about not posting yesterday. I had work and then I had to do a project for school. And tonight I have to write a paper for another class. So I don't think I'll get anything up tonight either. Tomorrow though definitely, before I have work.

I agree with Yos about the whole tunneling thing. Tunneling, at least the definition that is being used against yos, isn't scummy.

[scotmany12]

Hey look, Yosarian went two whole posts without mentioning me. Maybe there's a dayguiser...

Hey, if you want me to attack you less, then be less scummy. It's simple.

Hahaha. Funny. What strikes me as odd is that there are players twice as scum-like as me out there, yet you've only been focussing on me.

There's one player who's more scummy then you are right now, in my eyes. That's why I'm voting for him.

Anyway, you completly refused to respond to any of my arguments yesterday, and still haven't. I don't know why you'd expect pressure on you to go away when you never responded to it in any useful way.

He never responded to my arguments either.

Anways, I'm drunk. Obviously not in the right mind to comment right now. I apologize. Three top suspects currently are Richard, inHim, and paltry.

[scotmany12]

Vote: Richard

I'm still pretty convinced he is scum. He has done nothing yet that makes me think he could be town. His vote screams like he was just trying to attempt to bussing, giving no reason at all for it.

Richard, Why are you voting for mipe? I mean you have this one post at the start of the day talking about how we should analyze the kills, and say we should look at people who pushed at both korts and sora (which is full of wifom) and then you go on and vote mipe. Why? Why not follow up on what you said in the post about analyzing the night kills?

Mod: Votecount, please?

Furcolow. You are attacking people for defending people that are still alive. That doesn't really hold any water because you dont know their alignments for sure. Also, you aren't making any sense at all with any of your other points. Time to start playing.

Fonz, do you think you can expand on your inhimm vote? Right now it just seems like you have a lot and you jumbled all of it in to this little paragraph.

As for quag not noticing ksun, I'm not making much of it. Quag tends to be a lazy player imo, and it wouldn't surprise me that he totally doesn't notice someone who lurked quite a bit during day one.

I think the anon case has merit. The whole the wagon has decent reasoners then jumping to someone was bussing looks to me like he is trying to set up being able to lynch an experienced player later on.

* INSERT LONG ANALYSIS POST HERE*

Why nothing about me?

What are YOUR thoughts on the game mipe?

Thats all for now. I've been burnt out lately.

[scotmany12]

The question about not noticing ksun, fonz? Answered it right here.

As for quag not noticing ksun, I'm not making much of it. Quag tends to be a lazy player imo, and it wouldn't surprise me that he totally doesn't notice someone who lurked quite a bit during day one.

Ksun lurked for most of day one, and provided very little, if any, to the game. And since quag can be a lazy player at times, it doesn't surprise me that he wouldn't have noticed someone.

[scotmany12]

Also, Furcolow, asnwer my question ASAP please.

It's funny. You call everyone else a hypocrite, and here you are telling people to answer your questions when you never once responded to my case against you, or even asnwered my questions here:

Richard, Why are you voting for mipe? I mean you have this one post at the start of the day talking about how we should analyze the kills, and say we should look at people who pushed at both korts and sora (which is full of wifom) and then you go on and vote mipe. Why? Why not follow up on what you said in the post about analyzing the night kills?

Voting for mipe for reasons posted on D1 etc etc

So answer my questions. Why have you not followed up on what you said about analyzing the night kills?

2. That said, Paltry does not come across that scummy to me. Why would he attract attention to himself by continuing to argue that ksun was a policy lynch, not a "real" lynch, when it scum? It seems to me that's the type of thing that scum would not want to do.

I don't like this. It basically just comes down to pure wifom here. I think it is perfectly viable that scum would try to play off the ksun lynch as a policy lynch.

5. Mipe, though, should be forced to claim. He's been soft-claiming, and it doesn't make sense to leave it as a soft-claim.

I also don't agree with this. He isn't anywhere near close to lynch, and I don't see any good coming out of him claiming.

Reading fonz's case on inhim right now.

[scotmany12]

Okay, I think there are much better wagons than inhim at this point. I think inhim's response to the attack against him are very townlike. I would like him to respond to this part of the fonz's attack:

To this point, InHim has not mentioned mipe, and he gives no reason for finding mipe scummy. He states in the same post that he thinks you are trying to play clean, and that he thinks Cody is a fool and probably a 'wolf,' presumably meaning scum though he's undoubtedly going to correct me on this if i'm wrong. The later post where he says 'You're actually scum' confirms this. He also talks about how his suspicion on scot is mostly gut.

The Fonz pointed to ksun, and I thought it was a better wagon to lynch a "not helpful" player.

Was your only reasoning for putting your vote on ksun was that he was a "not helpful" player?

And I eagerly await inhim to get to this:

Also, I've not forgotten about those quick Richard votes, either - I've yet to really make a substantive post this Day, still working around a busy schedule.

Want to see what he thinks about those quick richard votes.

unvote vote InHim

Wasn't a big fan Day 1, still am not. Especially his most recent post: "I WAS gonna vote ksun..but I thought I GHP still had a chance of being lynched..but then obvtown Fonz pointed out that ksun was the better lynch and other people joined so.."

Sorry I would give more reasons but my finger is sprained so i'm only typing with one hand.
Basically, his actions so far this game have been very opportunistic IMO

Don't like this post. I think dahill is twisting what inhim said. Also, I know you have a sprained finger, but can you try to give more reasons dahill? even if it is in multiple posts?

[scotmany12]

I'm here. Richard, why do you think Furcolow is scummy?

[scotmany12]

Finals week coming up. Swamped with work. Don't expect a lot from me until semester is over. Still want Richard to explain his vote on Furcolow.

[scotmany12]

Okay. So starting Tuesday I will have some free time as my next final isn't until Friday. Haven't read richard's case on furcolow yet but will get to it sometime soon.

[scotmany12]

So yeah, Richard's case on Furcolow is underwhelming and seems contrived once again. It reminds me of his case on dahill; he pulls out everyone on Furcolow's posts and has to find something scumming about each of them. And while I don't particularly agree with Furcolow's points on the voting pattern, RichardGHP defense that he should not be held accountable for others' voting paterns suck. Yes you aren't accountable, but they can still be viable arguments.

Obviously, out of everyone I want to lynch RichardGHP today. I'm confident that he is scum.

@Shanba: I fully understand the case against Anon. I like it too. But I think Richard is more scummy. And something that I havent mentioned until now is how RichardGHP seemingly wants everyone to do his work for him (i.e. his reasoning for furcolow, and then very early on in the day where he said we should spend the day analyzing reports as well as korts and soras main suspects). I see no protown motivation from his actions, I see no concern from him in finding scum.

[scotmany12]

scotmany, exactly how confident are you that I'm scum? What about you, Yos?

Very confident.

I'll comment more on other stuff in a little bit. I have a headache now and have to meet someone in about 2 hours.

[scotmany12]

Paltry still looks to me like the least scummy person on mipe due to actually finding him scummy.

Which is strange because mipe wasnt that obvscum as some are trying to paint.

Seriously, what was the case on him, why was he suspicious?

...You thought he was scummy Anon.

Fonz, do you really think Vasu is a better lynch that Richard in terms of contribution to the game?

Yes. Richard has been clearly making an effort, Vas has lurked and then shown up when he's under suspicion (which cicero calls the candyman scumtell, hence the reference in my earlier post).

I disagree with this. I don't see any effort from Richard. He looks like someone who wants other people to do the work for him.

[scotmany12]

EBWOP: Why do you think mipe is scum.

I think he is faking his playstyle.

Read his iso. Until iso8 he seems to be a regular player.

His unvote in iso8 is forced and fake. /oh look im so townie unvoting when my top suspect is at l-4

When people start looking at him, he starts behaving like lately.

That makes me think he is faking it.

You admitted to thinking mipe was scummy right here Anon.

[scotmany12]

Finals. Not a lot of time.

Willing to allow Richard the chance to prove his role, though even if he does there is always a possibility of a scum tacker.

Unvote, Vote: VasudeVa

Had problems with his actions during day one. Hated his constant play of the newbie card, and his scummy actions (such as pushing for a claim, which I still believe he would know is extremely anti-town if he has read the like ten games he has said he has). And while I believe that lurking by itself is not inherently scummy, when it is coupled with other scummy actions its pretty damning.

[scotmany12]

I wanna

vote: Scot

because I remember him as being fairly strident as town, and he's not at all here. Even allowing for exams, he's undercontributing relative to his meta, plus he was on RGHP over ksun, and VV over zoraster (with a bad reason to be on VV, and no comment on zoraster at all). There's also some kinda half-assed attacking of Scot that Zoraster did early on, then completely forgot about.

Fonz, as far as I recall, we have played in one full game together, and that is tree stump. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Sure, I guess you can say I was strident there, but there are plenty of games where I was town where I was not that aggressive. I disagree that my reason for voting for VV is bad. He consistently played the newbie card day one, was rolefishing, and his exscuse was that he was new, despite him knowing that rolefishing would be bad if he had read those ten games like he said he had. And yes, I didn't comment on the Zoraster wagon at all. Only excuse I have is that I was busy, being swamped with finishing up the semester, packing, dealing with work, problems that were coming up between me and my girlfriend, trying to find a roommate for next year, and trying to find a summer job. So if that makes me scummy, then so be it.

[scotmany12]

Man, I've been saying this all game! (although zoraster flipping scum does make the case against scot significantly stronger) So once again I'm gonna follow along with Fonz and

vote Scot

And this is absolutely bull. You haven't said anything all game except that you thought I felt off. That's it. You never made any case against me hill. And fonz's is lackluster.

[scotmany12]

Well, yes, it does. You're what Yos calls the 'scummy looking lurker.' You've barely done anything, and those few things you've done have benefited scum. And no, I'm not basing this solely on Tree Stump, since i'm pretty sure i've read a few of your other games in the dim and distant past.

VV wasn't 'rolefishing-' he was openly advocating getting several people to claim early on. All the *badtheory* stuff is easily, and in fact best explained by being an extremely raw newbie with next to no concept of how we play on this site. The self-conscious playing of the newbie card, I'd agree, is scummy, (saying 'I did it because I'm a newbie' is not a valid defence, since presumably his thought process wasn't 'Hey, I'm a newbie! I know, I'll do something stupid!') and his vote on ksun looked a lot like a bus. But honing in on the badtheory just seems like you were looking for a quick and easy excuse to vote the counterwagon to zoraster.

And this goes back to where he said he has read games around the site. He said ten games or something like that. So forgive me if I don't believe that all of his bad theory talk is because he's new. Because frankly, what I see is someone who deliberately did something antitown, and when called out on it he played it off as being new. So no, I do not find the "extremely raw newbie" explanation as a reason to excuse this.

[scotmany12]

Calling my vote on VaVa as me pushing a counterwagon to Zoraster, when Zoraster only had two votes on him, and there was no way to know if it had any momentum and would continue to grow, is just wrong.

Your case is lackluster, and not something I would expect someone of your caliber to push on day three. For one, I hardly consider my activity during day one to be equivalent to that of a lurker. Yes there was a time where I didn't say much, which was due to school once again. And then during day 2, my low activity was due to personal life and school. And two, I'm not the only one who stayed off of the scum wagons. QuagJohnson, Yos, Mipe, PaltryCover have all stayed off of the scum wagons. So yes, you're case is lackluster.

[scotmany12]

Sure, as the deadline was nearing closer, Zoraster or VaVa were the only options really. At the time of my vote, I disagree. And I was the second vote on VaVa behind you. There were plenty of other people who had only one vote on them (Furc, Yos, Quag, inHim, Paltry, Shanba). All of them had votes on them! All of them had one vote along with VaVa. So you're just dead wrong. I didn't vote for the biggest wagon at this point, cause there was no leading wagon, except for Zoraster, Richard (untill I voted for VaVa), and Anon who all had 2 votes!

And Zoraster even went back down to one vote five posts after my vote. At that point, who was going to be lynched was not obvious at all. I voted for who I thought was the scummiest. I'd argue the Zoraster wagon did not gain momentum until inhim voted for him.

[scotmany12]

While I don't think fonz's case on me was good at all, I do agree with him that we should look at those that were not on either of the scum wagons. Not including me, those not on either wagons that are still alive are yos, don johnson, mipe, and cove. I find mipe fairly obvious town, though also frustrating, and I'm getting a town vibe from Yos. That leaves Cove, and don.johnson.

Before they were both replaced, paltry was far more scummy than quag, and this goes back to him voting mipe over ksun, and then says the ksun lynch was for policy reasons which is why he stayed off of it, while he himself advocated policy lynching mipe in this post:

@Quag: Do you want to carry a player like mipe until later? His early game, before anyone really pointed a finger, was just bandwagon for the sake of bandwagon. Now he's recently become increasingly oblivious to how mafia is to be played.

@Mod: We've been missing inHim and theopor for a long time. Prods please?

This has been said before mainly by yos, and maybe by anon as well.

I also disliked his vote on inhim.

Vote: inHimshallibe

I feel the case on you is rather solid and the recent runaround you tried to give dahill1 doesn't make you look any better either.

I don't get any runaround at all from what inhim said, and I get a very opportunistic feel from his vote.

As for quag, I felt like his play was very solid, and I didn't think anything particularly from him was scummy. I disagree with his vote on Yos, but I don't find his reasoning scummy.

As for both don.johnson and Cove, both their contributions have been scummy. don.johnson votes for something that occurred in the rvs, and I hate this post from him:

if there's much more info, why are you wasting time defending yourself against such an obvious temporary vote? shouldn't you be presenting a case or something?

First of, I don't consider defending yourself to be wasting time, and him writing his own vote off as temporary just bugs me. Why even vote for mr. chaos, when you yourself admitted yourself that the case isn't strong and that it is based off of a players actions (and I didn't even find TSQ's actions scummy at all) during very early of day one?

As for Cove, his whole excessive wagoning thing was pretty weak, and the throwing in of WIFOM on Vas didn't help.

And his vote on me is done without explanation, right after he said this about inhim's vote:

I'm not sure I'm so used to playing games where it's acceptable to bandwagon without explanation like what inHim does, it just doesn't sit right.

And then he voes for me in the same post:

This narrows down the possible suspect pool to:

2. iamausername
4. doc_johnson
9. scotmany12
12. mipe
16. The Fonz
17. Yosarian2

I know that there has been a lot of talk about mipe, and the mipe wagon. Going to bet he's not scum for now. iamausername and Fonz were on the ksun wagon, plus The Fonz seems to know what he's talking about, so that leaves:

4. doc_johnson
9. scotmany12
17. Yosarian2

I get the feeling this is a pretty good short list.

Vote scotmany12

That's L-3 right?

Yeah, he has reasoning for narrowing it down to those three, but he gives no explanation for why he chose me over yos and don.johnson. He basically bandwagoned with no explanation.

Vote: Cove

I find him more scummy than don.johnson, mostly due to quag not really being scummy at all, while paltry was scummy with his mipe vote, his reasoning for staying of the ksun wagon as he saw it as being full of policy reasoning, while he advocated policy lynching mipe. And I don't like Cove's contributions so far either.

[scotmany12]

As for Cove, his whole excessive wagoning thing was pretty weak, and the throwing in of WIFOM on Vas didn't help.

Wasn't your case on Vas swirled in WIFOM as well? I understand the reasons you were voting for him, but I have to admit that there is some significant WIFOM involved. Off the top of my head, you clinged to the fact that he admitted to rolefishing on Day 1. It's clearly WIFOM as to whether scum would admit to that or not.

Yeah, no. Voting for someone for rolefishing involves no WIFOM. My case wasn't swirled in WIFOM at all.

Also, how is claiming that my excessive wagoning approach is weak, yet you call me out for wagoning? Are you saying wagoning is good or bad?

I explained, as you noted, my reasoning for whittling the list down to 3 players. More than likely there are at least 3 scum left and if there are two left I feel I have both in there, so I'm really free to pick in any order, unless something amazingly town strikes me of any of the three (hint: nothing currently does). Bottom line is that I'd lynch any of you 3, so might as well make my vote count.

I called you out for doing something that you called inhim out for doing in the same post that you attacked him.

Also, I'm sensing some OMGUS as I don't see any of these opinions about Paltry anywhere in your ISO. Only when I vote for you. Also, your swift dismissal of Yos and your defense of don are duely noted. You agree that we should look in the direction of people that haven't been on the scum wagons, but you've almost certainly shown you have no interest in voting most of them. How does that make any sense? The only answer I see is OMGUS.

...I just made a post on why I am voting for you over don. This isn't OMGUS at all. I clearly stated I think you are the scummiest out of those four people I listed that stayed off of both scum wagons. And no, I didn't post these opinions about paltry earlier, because i just formed them today when I went and reread paltry and quag.

[scotmany12]

EBWOP: Fixed quote tages

As for Cove, his whole excessive wagoning thing was pretty weak, and the throwing in of WIFOM on Vas didn't help.

Wasn't your case on Vas swirled in WIFOM as well? I understand the reasons you were voting for him, but I have to admit that there is some significant WIFOM involved. Off the top of my head, you clinged to the fact that he admitted to rolefishing on Day 1. It's clearly WIFOM as to whether scum would admit to that or not.

Yeah, no. Voting for someone for rolefishing involves no WIFOM. My case wasn't swirled in WIFOM at all.

Also, how is claiming that my excessive wagoning approach is weak, yet you call me out for wagoning? Are you saying wagoning is good or bad?

I explained, as you noted, my reasoning for whittling the list down to 3 players. More than likely there are at least 3 scum left and if there are two left I feel I have both in there, so I'm really free to pick in any order, unless something amazingly town strikes me of any of the three (hint: nothing currently does). Bottom line is that I'd lynch any of you 3, so might as well make my vote count.

I called you out for doing something that you called inhim out for doing in the same post that you attacked him.

Also, I'm sensing some OMGUS as I don't see any of these opinions about Paltry anywhere in your ISO. Only when I vote for you. Also, your swift dismissal of Yos and your defense of don are duely noted. You agree that we should look in the direction of people that haven't been on the scum wagons, but you've almost certainly shown you have no interest in voting most of them. How does that make any sense? The only answer I see is OMGUS.

...I just made a post on why I am voting for you over don. This isn't OMGUS at all. I clearly stated I think you are the scummiest out of those four people I listed that stayed off of both scum wagons. And no, I didn't post these opinions about paltry earlier, because i just formed them today when I went and reread paltry and quag.

[scotmany12]

Except I didn't focus on just one. Yos's push against RichardGHP, and his vote on paltry seem sincere. I can't see mipe being scum at all with that early day one wagon, and his play is fairly obvious town to me. That left quag and paltry. Quag didn't particularly do anything scummy at all, while he didn't really do anything protown. Paltry, on the otherhand, was scummy. Yeah, both quag and yos stayed off the ksun wagon, but neither of them were on the scummy mipe wagon.

Throwing around OMGUS happens way to much in mafia. Very rarely is a vote an OMGUS one. You, mipe, quag, yos, and me were the people not on either scum wagon. I know I'm not scum, and I would be very surprised if there was no scum in that group of four. Of all of them, you are the most scummiest. This isn't OMGUS at all.

[scotmany12]

I claimed the Fonz's case on me to be weak for his analysis of my vote on Vas, which I strongly disagreed with, and his focus on me lurking. I'd also argue that my push against Richard was clearly scumhunting. I never had a problem with focusing on people that didn't vote for either scum lynch.

Cove, I don't know how you can look at my vote and say that it is omgus. I found it unlikely that there wouldn't be at least one scum who stayed off both scum wagons. I can't see mipe being scum at all, and Yos also seems town. You were scummier than don.johnson in my eyes.

Who are Cove's buddies? Maybe inhim and Mr. Chaos. But those two are just off the top of my head. I really don't know right now.

[scotmany12]

I'd also argue that my push against Richard was clearly scumhunting.

So let me get this straight... you presumably think I'm scum, yet you're voting Cove? WTF?

Vote: Scotmany

Gogo wagon.

Um...no not at the moment. Because I believe your claim. You need to work on your reading comprehension. I was saying my push against you was scumhunting. No where did I say I currently think you are scum.

And even if I did think you were scum, it is possible for someone to think that 2 people are scum. Seriously dude.

[scotmany12]

Regardless Hill, he claimed vanilla. There is no reason to keep a claimed vanilla alive unless it's an endgame scenario. While I agree that tell is extremely stupid, an Amished's vote on Cove is bad, we don't really have a choice now.

[scotmany12]

Shenanigans. You didn't apply the same logic to mipe when you found yourself in the same position dahill's in here. I also don't believe you're a lyncher of premature townie claimants. A vanilla claim shouldn't sway anyone off a wagon, but it isn't going to force someone who hates the wagon onto it.

I legitimately do not remember the mipe claim. Regardless, my point still stands.

[scotmany12]

10. Cove

PaltryExcuse

Chevre

-

Even Night Mafia Murderer

- Devoured (lynched) day 3

Doesn't look like SK to me dahill...

[scotmany12]

@VV: Attacking the attacker. He couldn't really attack me for anything else I said since that was my entire contribution to the game at that point replacing in. Also, he attacked it in the same way Zorblag attacked in when I called out xRx in Friends and Enemies.

That's the majority of why I feel he's scum.

Attacking the validity of your case is not chainsaw defense. Dahill felt your tell thing was bs, so he attacked it. Get over yourself.

[scotmany12]

Ehhh, just quoting his posts doesn't do it Anon. Explain why he is scum. Also, the whole fonz died because he was suspicious of don, thus making don scum, is full of wifom.

Don...did you just call Anon scum?

[scotmany12]

Ehhh, just quoting his posts doesn't do it Anon. Explain why he is scum. Also, the whole fonz died because he was suspicious of don, thus making don scum, is full of wifom.

Don...did you just call Anon scum?

Do your homeowrk, scot.

Read that posts and tell me what do you think of don.

Its clearly evident to me, tbh.

I hate it when people simply quote all the posts from a player, call them scum, and leave it at that. I'm not saying don_johnson isn't scummy, he is. But don't expect others to do your work for you Anon.

You think don_johnson is scum. Explain why.

[scotmany12]

Why should I explain don is scummy if you already think he is scummy?

Because I want to know why you think he is scummy. You quoted pretty much all of his posts. Then didn't say anything. That's antitown, and not helpful at all. Explain why you think he is scummy.

Get off your high horse for a second, realize you aren't an amazing player, and start helping the town.

[scotmany12]

Why should I explain don is scummy if you already think he is scummy?

Because I want to know why you think he is scummy. You quoted pretty much all of his posts. Then didn't say anything. That's antitown, and not helpful at all. Explain why you think he is scummy.

Get off your high horse for a second, realize you aren't an amazing player, and start helping the town.

Why do you want to know why I think he is scummy?

Um...cause you called him scum. I want to know why you think so. It's as simple as that. You're being ridiculous.

When I see someone call someone scum, and simply quote their posts, I'm going to ask them why they think they are scum. I'm not going to let someone do your work for you Anon.

[scotmany12]

scot: yes, i called anon scum. understand that i am not caught up. i am simply going by what i am seeing. anon is voting a claimed tracker on the night his ability would be usable. his other main suspect is a guy who isn't caught up.

So you think Anon is scum because he did a totally nonscummy action? First off, Richard's role isn't even confirmed. Even if it was, confirmed role=/=confirmed alignment.

...And how the hell if you aren't caught up do you know that Richard claimed tracker but that Anon is not a claimed vig? Anon claimed before Richard!

[scotmany12]

Because I want to see if we are thinking the same! I want to see why you think he is scum. This is mafia 101 Anon. You're being ridiculous and extremely antitown.

You expect other people to look at that post where you called don_johnson scum and expect people to look at his posts and come to the same conclusion as you. Mafia doesn't work that way. You think he is scum, explain why.

[scotmany12]

BS Anon. You're full of your self and have no idea how the game works. It doesn't matter if I think you are town or not. I still want to know why you think don is scum. And you're putting words in my mouth, I never said don_johnson is prob scum. I said he was scummy. If i thought he was prob scum I would be voting for him.

It doesn't matter if I have reads on both player, because reads can change! I want to know what you are thinking and why you think don_johnson is scum. And I have every reason to think that besides the fact that I think don_johnson is scummy. Perhaps your reasoning is BS. Perhaps you have this amazing case against don. Perhaps not. I can't know because you didn't explain. Not to mention it would be helpful to everyone else for you to post it.

You think that because I think you are town and that don is scummy that I wouldn't want to know your reasoning. That is ridiculous. Just because two people think one person is scummy doesn't mean they do for the same reason! You are entirely wrong in this matter Anon.

[scotmany12]

Okay, who is scum then?

One or two of Mr. Chaos, Amished, don.johnson, inhim, vas. I wouldn't be surprised if any of those turned up to be scum. I'm leaning towards voting don or vas currently.

Votes on Yos and dahill are pretty bad.

[scotmany12]

scotmany, narrow it down to one or two please. At this stage 5 is far too many scumreads to have.

Unvote, Vote: Scotmany

No its really not. And I said that I was leaning towards Vas and don.

Amished: I think I made my opinion on Vas pretty obvious, and his contribution yesterday was horrible. He voted me, then disappeared. He never explained why he though the cove wagon was a bad wagon.

As for don, I think he is flat out lying about not contributing. The thing that gets me is that he knew that Richard was a tracker, yet he voted for anon who is a claimed vig. And the thing is he would know Anon is a vig because he claimed before richard. And him calling anon scum is horrible.

[scotmany12]

EBWOP: He never voted for anon, but did call him scum.

[scotmany12]

Okay, but then there is also this post at the beginning of day 3 by dahill.

I (reluctantly) believe Anon now since who I believe he killed fits with his behavior yesterday and the killing MO matches Shanba's N1 kill. Also definitely gonna have to re-examine that mipe wagon now that we have two confirmed scum on, there were likely more.

I think its fairly obvious that Anon claimed vig from that, and this was made right after don posted and voted for mr. chaos. And don.johnson replied to mr. chaos 5 posts after that post by dahill. Now I find it highly unlikely that don wouldn't have read the posts in between his post and mr. chaos's post where he replied too. I really don't see anyway where don wouldn't know that anon claimed vig.

[scotmany12]

Just saw this:

For Cove/PE: You didn't really do shit to get them lynched. I hope you realize that I was sarcastic.

That's not really true. Yos had a lot of influence on getting Cove lynched. Probably the second most.

[scotmany12]

Anon and yos pushed PE on day 2. Anon's case was the underlying reason why he was scummy. Had it not been for the exchanged those three had during day 2, I doubt I would have found paltry the most scummiest, I probably wouldn't have voted for him, and the cove wagon might have never started.

Yeah, I don't see d_j as that logical of a player, and it wouldn't surprise me if he thought he might have been able to get anon lynched.

[scotmany12]

so then dj's vote would still be a nulltell and not a scumtell, wouldn't it?

If he truly didn't know Anon was a vig, then yeah. But I really think he did know that. And him calling a claimed vig scum for voting for a claimed tracker just doesn't sit right with me.

[scotmany12]

Ehhh...okay I get what you are saying.

[scotmany12]

I totally forgot iamusername was in this game. He needs replaced fast. I never found him particularly townish.

Vote: VasudeVa

I just don't see him as town. His avoidance of the game, the things I stated earlier about him, and hardly providing any of his own opinions, following bandwagon after bandwagon, and him calling the covewagon bad though never explaining why. Also, his recent vote on dahill screams as scum trying to hop on an easy, opportunistic wagon at the beginning of the day. I expected him to either vote for me or don.johnson judging by his comments day 3, but instead he posts this:

I don't get why attacking the tell is suddenly chainsaw defense. Although, the fact that he was vehement about it even after the claim warrants a vote.

Vote: Dahill

So he doesn't think that attacking the tell is scummy, but yet he votes him for that same reason? Yeah, this vote was horrible.

[scotmany12]

This game is stalling...two players need replaced.

I'm against an odd night tracker claiming right now.

[scotmany12]

Unvote, vote: Mr. Chaos

I still think Vas is scummy, and don't see how his one post earlier in the day makes him town. Chaos is a decent lynch though, and something definitely needs to happen in this game.

[scotmany12]

Mafia played bad. Pretty bad. Though when the majority of the group gets replaced out its tough. Probably should have killed anon instead of fonz. Really disliked the setup, I wouldn't qualify this as a normal game. Plus, the mod who originally flaked (thanks for taking over farside) refused to tell the mafia who our scum buddies were for quite a while. Only until we all asked in the quicktopic did he finally give us a list.

Amished, you played really good, but that "tell" on paltry/cove you used isn't a tell at all. You have got lucky the other times you used it, but that isn't a scumtell.

Also, Anon, while I was legit scummy, and knew you were going to kill me, that "he's scum because he asked for my reasoning," is not a legit reason to think someone is scum. However, you still had every right to kill me as I was scummy and had not been playing well.

Meh...not happy with this game on a lot of fronts.

[scotmany12]

Also. I wanted to say something about the zoraster lynch. Not the him being lynched part, but I disliked how some people were criticizing his v/la. That didn't sit well with me at all. He was obviously busy, calling his v/la convenient and pissant is kinda classless.

[scotmany12]

Also, too many scum, and too many powerroles for the town. Setup was a mess.