Riddle Me This! NY111 - mafia dead - Town wins!

[Korts]

Shea, that is bull

hokey

. If I see material worth pursuing, I will pursue it. No-one has sole ownership over avenues of discussion and lines of questioning; if you have a different idea of what the questions should be, you're free to go that way. Forum mafia has the benefit of not being tied to a linear discussion.

Vote Count

DizzyIzzyB13

- Korts, ksun482, Shanba, inHimshallibe, dahill1, FeFiFoFum (L-5)

mipe

- VasudeVa (L-10)

Korts

- Thestatusquo (L-10)


Not Voting:

ImmuneShadow
Dr.Cyanide
RichardGHP
Quagmire
DizzyIzzyB13
scotmany12
Chevre
Anon
mipe
theopor_COD
Richard Massive
springlullaby

Anon's vote did not count because I have no idea what Richard he is referring too.

"When is a door, not a door?"

[inHimshallibe]

obvtown and obvtown.

Let's get back to this fascinating Izzywagon.

[Thestatusquo]

It does but there is a difference between a) Talking about a subject that has been broached by another player and b) Directly responding to the questions that someone else has asked a player to the point where my follow up is less effective. The first one is perfectly fine, the second one seems like an attempt to steer discussion and head off my ability to fully pursue my own avenues of discourse. Wanna guess which one you did?

[Anon]

This game was a lot cooler before it become a competition of numbering.

Someone should follow me in my Richard vote and start a counterwagon. Why have only one?

[Korts]

It does but there is a difference between a) Talking about a subject that has been broached by another player and b) Directly responding to the questions that someone else has asked a player to the point where my follow up is less effective. The first one is perfectly fine, the second one seems like an attempt to steer discussion and head off my ability to fully pursue my own avenues of discourse. Wanna guess which one you did?

Uh definitely not the second one. Not once did I address your questions, only the answers given, which has no bearing on your follow-up. You are welcome to prove to me that I have been unhelpful if you have examples to support your claim.

[Anon]

Anon's vote did not count because I have no idea what Richard he is referring too.

Lol, hadnt noticed this.

Vote: RichardGHP.

[Thestatusquo]

This game was a lot cooler before it become a competition of numbering.

Someone should follow me in my Richard vote and start a counterwagon. Why have only one?

What do you mean by "competition of numbering" and why is it bad, in your opinion?

Why have a counter wagon? Does that not mean that neither wagon will receive enough votes to put significant pressure on a player? Doesn't this just derail both wagons? Why do you want to derail the izzy wagon? Furthermore, why do you want to start a wagon on richard that is not going to succeed?

[RichardGHP]

Vote Anon

.

Oh My God, You Suck.

[RichardGHP]

EBWOP:

Unvote; vote: DizzyIzzyB13

.

Just goin' with the flow.

[Thestatusquo]

What, in your opinion, do either of those actions accomplish, Richard?

P.S. Do you mind if I call you GHP? It might get confusing with two richards in the game.

[Anon]

What do you mean by "competition of numbering"

asking a lot of a), b), c) questions.

and why is it bad, in your opinion?

I never said it was bad. Its the boring way of finding scum.

Why have a counter wagon?

more possibilities of getting more information than a single wagon. Disagree?

Does that not mean that neither wagon will receive enough votes to put significant pressure on a player? Doesn't this just derail both wagons?

No and no.

Why do you want to derail the izzy wagon?

I certainly have not said nothing to derail the izzy wagon. What makes you think that?

Furthermore, why do you want to start a wagon on richard that is not going to succeed?

How can you be so sure its not going to succeed?

[dahill1]

Is it just me or is everybody attacking everybody for all the stupid little things?

The only argument that I understand so far is the standard "you voted with dice, that's bad, vote you"

[scotmany12]

Why do you want to derail the izzy wagon?

I certainly have not said nothing to derail the izzy wagon. What makes you think that?

Saying that you want to start a counterwagon implies that you want to derail the wagon.

Vote: RichardGHP

[Thestatusquo]

Well, isn't asking and answering questions pretty much the heart and soul of mafia? How the hell else are we supposed to find scum on day one if we don't force people into stances with questions? If your problem is with the numbering itself, I do it because it organizes my thoughts better, and makes responses easier. Is there a better system for this that I am unaware of?

About the wagons: In my experience with wagons, they have to receive a critical mass of votes before they become something a player feels they need to respond to. This is typically in the range of -1-4 from lynch, depending on the size of the game. How do you propose we do this if we start going off in many different directions at once? By splitting the votes, you make it so that neither wagon is percieved as a lynching threat by the player it is on, and therefore neither player reacts to the wagons. I mean, sure, sometimes noob scum (and more often noob town) overreact to a wagon that is small, but smart experienced players just ignore wagons until they reach a threatening point.

This is the basis of my latter question. By promotion what is essentially a second random wagon, you end up derailing the izzy wagon, and promoting a different one which is not going to come to fruition. So, please reanswer the questions or tell me why the above paragraph isn't true.

[RichardGHP]

What, in your opinion, do either of those actions accomplish, Richard?

P.S. Do you mind if I call you GHP? It might get confusing with two richards in the game.

1) It's RVS. I don't expect to accomplish anything until we're out of it and have started scumhunting. Call it a reaction test at best.

2) Actually, I'd prefer not. Seeing as the other Richard also likes to be called Dick, I'd prefer it if people called me Richard. If people refer to me as GHP I often think of it as someone else.

[Anon]

@TSQ:

This paragraph system is way better.

Asking and answering is not a bad thing. Some people like it and Im pretty sure Ill do it at some point. But I find it extremely boring in comparison with voting analysis and scumtells, for example.

Tell me something. What valid conclusions regarding alignment can you get from the questions you asked to vas and me?

Regarding wagons. A random voting stage wagon is not going to pressure the people being voted, neither is going to get valuable reactions, specially when people vote Izzy just for the lulz. At this stage, and just at this stage, I think we should go in many different directions as possible, find something notable and then go all in.

Also, you are not wrong. Id like to believe I am not wrong either. We just have different point of views.

[Korts]

vote: izzy

don't even claim just die

Doing a quick reread, I felt compelled to bump this post.

Please explain the rationale behind this, Mr. Giant.

[Korts]

It's RVS. I don't expect to accomplish anything until we're out of it and have started scumhunting

NO. RVS is not something to get over, nor is it something in which scumhunting doesn't happen. It is merely a stage where information is not so readily available. Do your work instead of whining, otherwise information will not be generated.

[inHimshallibe]

Korts wasn't detracting from the Town's play, Shea, only your own. I see no evidence, rather feel no gut, that he was steering the conversation in manipulation.

For the record, I'll restrain myself from posting, "Don't be a Richard, Richard" more than twice.

Someone tell me it'd be overreacting to vote RichardGHP based upon his pittance explanation of the wagonhopping.

[Richard Massive]

Guys, to avoid confusion just call me Dick.

Anyone got any actual reasons for Lynching people yet? I haven't seen any yet.

[RichardGHP]

It's RVS. I don't expect to accomplish anything until we're out of it and have started scumhunting

NO. RVS is not something to get over, nor is it something in which scumhunting doesn't happen. It is merely a stage where information is not so readily available. Do your work instead of whining, otherwise information will not be generated.

RVS is, in fact, something to get over. You can't stay in it the whole game.

Also, how DARE you call me whining when not one word in my post implies so? Misrepping to that kind of degree is really pretty scum-like you know.

[mipe]

Anon

I just feel like this is a good choice.

Ohh thats neat. He bolded Anon's name. Wonder what that could mean?

[RichardGHP]

^ Forgot the vote part mate.

[Korts]

Richard, the whole general attitude of yours toward RVS is basically whining; the reason RVS is not something to get out of is because it doesn't really exist. Information doesn't come in bulk after some magical line is crossed. The constructive thing to do is not to idly pass the time waiting for the end of something that doesn't have one. Find something to bite on and don't let go until you have something better.

Geez, what is this, Mafia 101?

[Thestatusquo]

What, in your opinion, do either of those actions accomplish, Richard?

P.S. Do you mind if I call you GHP? It might get confusing with two richards in the game.

1) It's RVS. I don't expect to accomplish anything until we're out of it and have started scumhunting. Call it a reaction test at best.

2) Actually, I'd prefer not. Seeing as the other Richard also likes to be called Dick, I'd prefer it if people called me Richard. If people refer to me as GHP I often think of it as someone else.

On 2, fine.

On 1, there's an entirely different kettle of beans. First of all, how do we get out of the random voting stage if we don't scumhunt in the rvs. If nothing in the RVS is alignment indicative (that is to say, we vote randomly and without reason) then how DO we start scumhunting? It would seem to me that instead of saying "Oh well, we're in RVS right now, we might as well all do pointless shit." one would want to attempt to do things that would create discussion. OMGUSing and random voting do not do these things.

Anon, look at the questions I asked. Some of them have game implications, some of them do not. The point is that the discussion they create is valuable. They grant us a much better starting point than "well, see this dice string made me vote x." My point with the wagons is that they DO elicit pressure. IF they reach a critical mass where they actually become a legitimate lynching threat. I have no problem with "poking in other directions." but those directions should stem from reactions and actions taken on the first random wagon. From there we branch out and become less and less random. This happens without actually lynching the first target. I dont think having two essentially random wagons is helpful.