Riddle Me This! NY111 - mafia dead - Town wins!

[Thestatusquo]

Well, if he deleted it theres no need to disregard it... Anyway, game on.

Vote Count

DizzyIzzyB13

- Kort, Shanba, inHimshallibe, dahill1, FeFiFoFum, RichardGHP (L-5)

mipe

- VasudeVa (L-10))

RichardGHP

- scotmany12 (L-10)

Springlullaby

- DizzyIzzyB13 (L-10)

dahill1

- Anon, Ksun482, Thestatusquo, Mipe (L-7)

With 20 alive, its 11 to lynch

Not Voting:

ImmuneShadow
Dr.Cyanide
Quagmire
Chevre
theopor_COD
Richard Massive
springlullaby

"No matter how hard you hit me, I am always good for a laugh. What am I?"

[scotmany12]

Mipe, why did you vote me in 87?

1. It was semi-random vote.

2. I thought you were bit scummish.

For now, it seems like dahill was trying to manipulate the town votes without being noticed, but failed at that.

Unvote, Vote: dahill1

What exactly about Anon did you find scummish?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Disregard the last post. Mod sent me a PM and I apologize for being hot under the collar.

Izzy, you're much sexier when you're not being horribly hypocritical. Is that not like your second post of the game? Who's lurking more?

I'm not lurking deliberately, though. I'm just going through a slightly busy spell that shuld be over by the weekend.

[VasudeVa]

I dislike the stall of the Izzy wagon.

Although, I sincerely have no idea on why the wagon is happening. Why anyway? Is this some Meta-Nazi ploy, trying to lynch off the proverbial 'Jews' or something?

Still, this will move town forwards. So here.

unvote, vote Izzy

[Thestatusquo]

What do you think of the case I have laid out against dahill? What do you think of the case I have laid out against Inhim? Are you even reading the game?

Furthermore why are you wagoning izzy? Do you disagree with the other wagons and think we should still be going with the biggest one? If so, why? Or, do you think Izzy has done something scum would do? If so, what? Your logic that "stalling the izzy wagon is bad" takes as an assumption that either a) Izzy is scum, or b) Other current options are bad. So take one of these positions and defend it, and if you don't think A or B is true, you should probably be voting dahill.

[RichardGHP]

unvote vote dahill

We're not lynching Dizzy today.

[Thestatusquo]

We're not lynching Dizzy today.

WOAH.

That's a bold statement. How exactly do you know that?

[mipe]

What exactly about Anon did you find scummish?

Something about the fact that his first post was just a vote and didn't say anything else, well, I got a bad feeling about that <_<

+ something about how stupid it is to only have 1 wagon and one should have multiple wagons.

That is basically it.

[Thestatusquo]

Do you even remember which side of that argument he was on?

[Korts]

I dislike the stall of the Izzy wagon.

Although, I sincerely have no idea on why the wagon is happening. Why anyway? Is this some Meta-Nazi ploy, trying to lynch off the proverbial 'Jews' or something?

Still, this will move town forwards. So here.

unvote, vote Izzy

Seriously? If you don't know what the Izzy wagon is for, why are you on it? If your best guess is that it's a completely pointless venture, why are you on it?

unvote, vote: VasudeVa

Blatant opportunism.

To be fair, I don't see a big issue with dahill's distinction between anti-town and scummy, although the "did anyone else see this" part does make it a bit more difficult for me to believe that he didn't find Richard scummy.

[VasudeVa]

I dislike the stall of the Izzy wagon.

Although, I sincerely have no idea on why the wagon is happening. Why anyway? Is this some Meta-Nazi ploy, trying to lynch off the proverbial 'Jews' or something?

Still, this will move town forwards. So here.

unvote, vote Izzy

Seriously? If you don't know what the Izzy wagon is for, why are you on it? If your best guess is that it's a completely pointless venture, why are you on it?

unvote, vote: VasudeVa

Blatant opportunism.

To be fair, I don't see a big issue with dahill's distinction between anti-town and scummy, although the "did anyone else see this" part does make it a bit more difficult for me to believe that he didn't find Richard scummy.

Big early wagons make people claim. Since this is a closed set-up, I'd like some early claims so we know what we can use against scum. GTFO my strategy.

Seriously, what's wrong with you? Every post I make, you go all out and criticize it, possibly getting the lynch on my neck. I do not know you from anywhere in this site, nor has the game gone far enough for you to be tunneling on me. I dislike it.

FoS Korts

[VasudeVa]

What do you think of the case I have laid out against dahill? What do you think of the case I have laid out against Inhim? Are you even reading the game?

Furthermore why are you wagoning izzy? Do you disagree with the other wagons and think we should still be going with the biggest one? If so, why? Or, do you think Izzy has done something scum would do? If so, what? Your logic that "stalling the izzy wagon is bad" takes as an assumption that either a) Izzy is scum, or b) Other current options are bad. So take one of these positions and defend it, and if you don't think A or B is true, you should probably be voting dahill.

Dahil's case is too "read between the lines-y". I like to base my votes on someone's action. Although, currently I'm riding wagons to get claims.

B mostly. I dislike day 1. Everyone keeps grasping for some material. Can't wait for night so we can analyze some night kills. I like to bandwagon my way to victory. Here's a big wagon. I'll stay on it for as long as I feel the need to.

[Quagmire]

hey sorry I ended up going bowling last night instead of reading the thread. Will do it tonight I promise.

[scotmany12]

What exactly about Anon did you find scummish?

Something about the fact that his first post was just a vote and didn't say anything else, well, I got a bad feeling about that <_<

+ something about how stupid it is to only have 1 wagon and one should have multiple wagons.

That is basically it.

Could you explain a little bit more? I mean, he wasn't the only one who's first post was just a vote.

I dislike the stall of the Izzy wagon.

Although, I sincerely have no idea on why the wagon is happening. Why anyway? Is this some Meta-Nazi ploy, trying to lynch off the proverbial 'Jews' or something?

Still, this will move town forwards. So here.

unvote, vote Izzy

Seriously? If you don't know what the Izzy wagon is for, why are you on it? If your best guess is that it's a completely pointless venture, why are you on it?

unvote, vote: VasudeVa

Blatant opportunism.

To be fair, I don't see a big issue with dahill's distinction between anti-town and scummy, although the "did anyone else see this" part does make it a bit more difficult for me to believe that he didn't find Richard scummy.

Big early wagons make people claim. Since this is a closed set-up, I'd like some early claims so we know what we can use against scum. GTFO my strategy.

Seriously, what's wrong with you? Every post I make, you go all out and criticize it, possibly getting the lynch on my neck. I do not know you from anywhere in this site, nor has the game gone far enough for you to be tunneling on me. I dislike it.

FoS Korts

Vote: VasudeVa

Why would you force someone to claim basically on nothing? I don't like that. Yes, it's day one, but you can still scumhunt. Plenty of scum have been caught on day one in previous games. We shouldn't force people to claim just to find out their role, and I see no town reason to do what you are doing.

Also, that FoS on korts screams omgus. It's a huge appeal to emotion, and as far as I can tell you are upset that he voted for you. Also, how is korts tunneling on you at all?

[VasudeVa]

What exactly about Anon did you find scummish?

Something about the fact that his first post was just a vote and didn't say anything else, well, I got a bad feeling about that <_<

+ something about how stupid it is to only have 1 wagon and one should have multiple wagons.

That is basically it.

Could you explain a little bit more? I mean, he wasn't the only one who's first post was just a vote.

I dislike the stall of the Izzy wagon.

Although, I sincerely have no idea on why the wagon is happening. Why anyway? Is this some Meta-Nazi ploy, trying to lynch off the proverbial 'Jews' or something?

Still, this will move town forwards. So here.

unvote, vote Izzy

Seriously? If you don't know what the Izzy wagon is for, why are you on it? If your best guess is that it's a completely pointless venture, why are you on it?

unvote, vote: VasudeVa

Blatant opportunism.

To be fair, I don't see a big issue with dahill's distinction between anti-town and scummy, although the "did anyone else see this" part does make it a bit more difficult for me to believe that he didn't find Richard scummy.

Big early wagons make people claim. Since this is a closed set-up, I'd like some early claims so we know what we can use against scum. GTFO my strategy.

Seriously, what's wrong with you? Every post I make, you go all out and criticize it, possibly getting the lynch on my neck. I do not know you from anywhere in this site, nor has the game gone far enough for you to be tunneling on me. I dislike it.

FoS Korts

Vote: VasudeVa

Why would you force someone to claim basically on nothing? I don't like that. Yes, it's day one, but you can still scumhunt. Plenty of scum have been caught on day one in previous games. We shouldn't force people to claim just to find out their role, and I see no town reason to do what you are doing.

Also, that FoS on korts screams omgus. It's a huge appeal to emotion, and as far as I can tell you are upset that he voted for you. Also, how is korts tunneling on you at all?

Scumhunt on what exactly? Unreliable tells? I'd rather scumhunt based on actions, thank you very much. Here I go now: His tunneling and your vote scream scum. I've got half the mind to vote one of you. If he's scum, you're scumbuddy. Easy.

Tunnelling - backread please. I've made like something like 3 or 4 posts and he has been focused on me for some reason. I don't even know him and this is my second game on this site ever. I theorize that he's either looking for a scapegoat, or he's deliberately getting on my nerves for some reason.

And I do not see any reason for him to focus fire on my ass. All I've been doing so far was answer Status' random questions and explaining my actions just like a good townie should. You guys are voting me based on my defensive play style and attempt at transparency. How lame.

So yes, I am doing a semi-OMGUS by FoSing because I do find him very suspicious.

Any more questions?

[scotmany12]

Realized I forgot to unvote.

Unvote, Vote: VasudeVa

Im voting for you cause you'd rather push for a claim based on nothing rather than scumhunt. Also, just because Korts is voting for you doesn't mean he is tunneling. He has addressed other people so far as well. And you just called both korts and me scum basically because we voted for you.

[Shanba]

VasudeVa, there's a point I'm having difficulty understanding in your response to korts/scotmany.

You seem to be opposed to scumhunting on day one (correct me if I'm wrong) yet you also seem to be doing scumhunting on day one in that you believe korts and scot are scum.

As a sidenote, if you have nothing on izzy and something on scot/korts, why are you keeping your vote on izzy?

You haven't understood our izzy wagon btw. No one wants to see her claim (except possibly tsq).

Unvote Vote: dahill

. I'm smelling strong 'othersitemeta' on VasVa and I need more time to properly evaluate his actions. (If you are from another site, ould you link to some games you've played there?). dahill, on the other hand, calls an action to our attention, then after it gets shot down as notscummy, tries to claim that was what he believed all along? I'm not buying it.

mipe:

mipe, was the (failed) vote for Anon serious or not?

Shanba should know me well enough that if any of my actions make you think "is he serious?" the answer is "no"!

Mipe, why did you vote me in 87?

1. It was semi-random vote.

2. I thought you were bit scummish.

What exactly about Anon did you find scummish?

Something about the fact that his first post was just a vote and didn't say anything else, well, I got a bad feeling about that <_<

+ something about how stupid it is to only have 1 wagon and one should have multiple wagons.

Why is it that when I ask you a question, I get voted and fobbed off, but when anon and scotmany ask you the same question, you give them an explanation? Also, how is semi-random the same as "serious? no!" since you were clearly at least partially serious.

[dahill1]

Vas, we can't just go around randomly wagonning people until they claim and then move on from there. That's not how this game works. Surely there are other things you can find to comment on / scumhunt.

@GHP: do you think my post 95 (the one everyone's referring to) is a scum slip? if so, why?

Also, what people seem to be misunderstanding is that

I never thought GHP was scummy in the first place

. Furthermore, my "Did anyone else see this?" was not meant as a "Look here everybody! Someone scummy". When someone says a statement like "I don't scumhunt Day 1" that automatically sticks out in my mind, and no one had seemed to have noticed it so I asked that question.

[Thestatusquo]

What do you think of the case I have laid out against dahill? What do you think of the case I have laid out against Inhim? Are you even reading the game?

Furthermore why are you wagoning izzy? Do you disagree with the other wagons and think we should still be going with the biggest one? If so, why? Or, do you think Izzy has done something scum would do? If so, what? Your logic that "stalling the izzy wagon is bad" takes as an assumption that either a) Izzy is scum, or b) Other current options are bad. So take one of these positions and defend it, and if you don't think A or B is true, you should probably be voting dahill.

Dahil's case is too "read between the lines-y". I like to base my votes on someone's action. Although, currently I'm riding wagons to get claims.

B mostly. I dislike day 1. Everyone keeps grasping for some material. Can't wait for night so we can analyze some night kills. I like to bandwagon my way to victory. Here's a big wagon. I'll stay on it for as long as I feel the need to.

Wait...What do you mean, read between the lines-y? Aren't all cases "reading between the lines?" And I am basing my vote off of his actions...I am making a case in the only way you can make a case in mafia a player makes an action and you decide whether its more likely to come from a town player or a scum player. I don't know what else you expect to happen, short of someone claiming scum...Which, in my experience, happens very infrequently.

Later in the game, it requires a patter of scumtastic behavior, but on day one you don't need as much. One particularly scummy action is enough to push someone to claim some times, and that's how the day progresses.

Everyone else: Pretty sure VesudVa is not scum, by the way, just clueless.

[VasudeVa]

VasudeVa, there's a point I'm having difficulty understanding in your response to korts/scotmany.

You seem to be opposed to scumhunting on day one (correct me if I'm wrong) yet you also seem to be doing scumhunting on day one in that you believe korts and scot are scum.

As a sidenote, if you have nothing on izzy and something on scot/korts, why are you keeping your vote on izzy?

You haven't understood our izzy wagon btw. No one wants to see her claim (except possibly tsq). Unvote Vote: dahill. I'm smelling strong 'othersitemeta' on VasVa and I need more time to properly evaluate his actions. (If you are from another site, ould you link to some games you've played there?). dahill, on the other hand, calls an action to our attention, then after it gets shot down as notscummy, tries to claim that was what he believed all along? I'm not buying it.

I am

not

opposed to scum hunting on day one. I love scumhunting, I just find it extremely unreliable 5 pages in. I was waiting for interactions like this to happen, then I can proceed. I'm not yet voting though, I'm giving people some leeway. Besides, I kind of accidentally baited them to it.

You might not. But I do. She claims, then good for me. Closed game setups can be very confusing, which is why I would love to push claims as often as I can.

Unfortunately, this is my second game of mafia ever. So it's probably some of my noobishness. Feel free to study my meta on Newbie 902 though, which is my first ever mafia game. Although I have read LOTS of games, which should explain why I'm semi well-versed.

Im voting for you cause you'd rather push for a claim based on nothing rather than scumhunt. Also, just because Korts is voting for you doesn't mean he is tunneling. He has addressed other people so far as well. And you just called both korts and me scum basically because we voted for you.

What? No, I was waiting for more interactions BEFORE I scumhunt. Jeesus, I didn't say that I would push for a claim THEN scumhunt, I was going to see if I get a claim, if not then I'll try my best to scumhunt. Yes, but I dislike him getting of the wagon he originally started only to vote for me for some reason.

I do see why he would find it as blatant opportunism. However the main difference between me and the other people on the wagon is my attempt at transparency. Everyone else voted without trying to even explain it. So, why tunnel on me when there could be other people to target?

Is it like a "pro" move to suddenly vote for people without explaining your actions if you are town? I do not comprehend. Please explain.

[Thestatusquo]

I have read LOTS of games, which should explain why I'm semi well-versed.

Noobs fantasy right here. You don't sound well versed st all. You sound like you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

Please respond to my post.

[Shanba]

Vas -

yes, it is a "pro" move to suddenly turn and vote for someone without explaining why. Glork wrote a post in md somewhere about this, I'll dig it out for you if you like. But if you look at Korts' post, that's not what he's done. He explained why he was voting for you in pretty clear terms (I'll let him explain if you really can't get it, but it's not like he was cryptic or anything...)

Secondly, you appear to be under the misconception that you can just wait for stuff to happen and it will suddenly appear. No, you have to do stuff and that makes stuff happen. You jump on the little tells early on in the hope that they lead to something bigger, and at the very least a semi-serious wagon forces someone to make a stance.

Thirdly, it's not in the town's best interest to have people claiming willy-nilly. If someone claims townie, we are none the wiser - they could be a townie, or they could be a scum fakeclaiming townie. Except for the scum, if that person is not scum, they now know that that person is not a power role. So they can avoid nightkilling them to hunt for other power roles more effectively. Similarly, if someone claims cop or some other power role, tey could be doing that as the power role in question or as scum, and with nothing else to go on, we don't have any way of telling between them. But scum can tell because scum know who the scum are, and hence if that person really is a cop they then just get nightkilled. So we gain nothing and stand to lose rather a lot. Town tend to lose mountainous games.

Vas, we can't just go around randomly wagonning people until they claim and then move on from there. That's not how this game works. Surely there are other things you can find to comment on / scumhunt.

@GHP: do you think my post 95 (the one everyone's referring to) is a scum slip? if so, why?

Also, what people seem to be misunderstanding is that

I never thought GHP was scummy in the first place

. Furthermore, my "Did anyone else see this?" was not meant as a "Look here everybody! Someone scummy". When someone says a statement like "I don't scumhunt Day 1" that automatically sticks out in my mind, and no one had seemed to have noticed it so I asked that question.

No, what you are misunderstanding is that the people voting for you

don't believe

, or

are not totally comfortable with

this explanation of events. What it looks like is that you originally were going to push it, then after it was shot down, you turn and justify it retroactively.

You're being accused of retconning your motivations.

[VasudeVa]

I have read LOTS of games, which should explain why I'm semi well-versed.

Noobs fantasy right here. You don't sound well versed st all. You sound like you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

Please respond to my post.

Hey, I said semi. I read like, 10 games or so. The 'semi' in my beliefs might have different values to the 'semi' of yours. Postmodernism, yeah.

I do have a little clue to what I'm talking about, just not on the repercussions it might have. I won't be claiming pro here, I'm a newbie through and through.

Read between the lines-y, like too much "Hey dude, look at what he said" rather than "Hey dude, look at who he voted". I'm not entirely convinced by the dahill wagon because of just that. The reason why I rode on the Izzy wagon was because I thought you were policy lynching due to meta or pushing for claims which is something I'm very comfortable with. Watching for freudian slips, however, is not my cup of tea. Feel free to point and laugh, but this is how I play.

[VasudeVa]

Vas -

yes, it is a "pro" move to suddenly turn and vote for someone without explaining why. Glork wrote a post in md somewhere about this, I'll dig it out for you if you like. But if you look at Korts' post, that's not what he's done. He explained why he was voting for you in pretty clear terms (I'll let him explain if you really can't get it, but it's not like he was cryptic or anything...)

Secondly, you appear to be under the misconception that you can just wait for stuff to happen and it will suddenly appear. No, you have to do stuff and that makes stuff happen. You jump on the little tells early on in the hope that they lead to something bigger, and at the very least a semi-serious wagon forces someone to make a stance.

Thirdly, it's not in the town's best interest to have people claiming willy-nilly. If someone claims townie, we are none the wiser - they could be a townie, or they could be a scum fakeclaiming townie. Except for the scum, if that person is not scum, they now know that that person is not a power role. So they can avoid nightkilling them to hunt for other power roles more effectively. Similarly, if someone claims cop or some other power role, tey could be doing that as the power role in question or as scum, and with nothing else to go on, we don't have any way of telling between them. But scum can tell because scum know who the scum are, and hence if that person really is a cop they then just get nightkilled. So we gain nothing and stand to lose rather a lot. Town tend to lose mountainous games.

Oh. I understand. Glork's post would be very helpful. I don't understand why transparency would be a bad thing for town though. I dislike it when people don't explain their actions because it means that they have something to hide.

I think that getting power roles to claim would be cool though. Stuff like, knowing a princess so we can protect or a day-vig we can use. I read somewhere that townies unconciously do want to claim. We can take their claims with a grain of salt. If they lied, it's an easy lynch.

[dahill1]

Woah you'd jump on someone's wagon because of a meta you'd never even seen before?