Flash Mafia: You won!

[elvis_knits]

:purrs:

[elvis_knits]

rofl, I am town this game, how about you?

[elvis_knits]

giggle

Okay

[elvis_knits]

rofl, I am town this game, how about you?

of course. lets be a wrecking ball.

Thundercats HO!

wtf happened with mufasa?

vote rayfrost

for saying the random vote phase is actually random

Snow white is sorta scummy too for OMGUS voting ray when there were much better reasons for doing so that she ignored

tajo sorta scummy for saying ray is town for basically no reason

a girl voting mufasa at this point - me no like

[elvis_knits]

Crypto's post made me ISO SB.

I don't get this:

@Tajo: Well, he's currently in neutral. Though, there's also the possibility of third party with its own selfish interests.

Not sure what this is saying... is she drawing distinction between MBF's chances of being mafia vs. sk? How/why is she drawing distinction between mafia and SK at this early stage?

[elvis_knits]

Plus, I'm a misogynist (hi elvis! ).

lol

I almost voted you when I saw you replace in. So far, I have been able to restrain myself though.

---

I say that I'm not getting either a town or scum feeling from mufasa. Is that that hard to understand? It means I'm getting a neutral reading. Which means that I could lean towards third party. Hard?

No, this does not make sense. Third party, SK, is a type of scum. So a person should be reading scummy to you in order for you to start contemplating what type of scum. Neutral is not a deisgnation for scum.

[elvis_knits]

Oh, one thing I noticed and I don't think anyone has pointed out, is that prozac refused to place a vote right before snow bunny refused to place a vote and everyone jumped on snow bunny, and nobody said anything about prozac. I would like to know what the difference is. I only mentioned snow bunny because I didn't like her third party comment... but on the field of not voting, snow bunny should not be mentioned without mentioning prozac.

[elvis_knits]

rofl does not seem scummy to me.

And yes, Pom is doing it wrong. If you think rofl is defending buddy ray, you lynch ray first.

[elvis_knits]

Oh and actually, elvis didnt say I was scummy. Dont put words in her mouth. She wondered why there was a difference in me and Snow bunny in regards to voting, and you know something I was wondering that too. Simply because the snow bunny wagon was completely ridiculous.

Actually, I don't like it when people refuse to vote, but I don't necessarily think it's scummy. I think snowbunny's comment about third party did not make sense, so if the wagon had been about that it would have been fine. But making the wagon on her refusal to vote, when you had done that too, was pretty stupid. Those are my feelings on all of that.

@agoti:
What? You're one of the people who jumped on snowbunny and said nothing about Prozac. Now Prozac is scum because *you* went after Snow Bunny?

MAKE SENSE DAMMIT!

wow, idk how the heck you got that out of my post.

prozac is scummy for the same reason snow bunny is scummy - pushing a wagon without commiting a vote to it.

prozac is extra crispy scummy, cuz his excuse for that was "i'm a big ol' scaredy-cat who won't dare to put an L-2 vote on", but then he turns around and quietly slips an L-1 on ray like it ain't no thang.

everybody jumping on bunny and not prozac earlier has nothin to do with it.

This is a misrep of prozac's actions. My memory (which may be clouded by gravy) was that prozac didn't want an L-2 very early game, like in the first couple of pages. He put ray at L-1 after ray had been questioned several times and his responses sucked. Also, the timing was different. The ray vote was much later in the game.

unvote; vote A Girl on the Internet

[elvis_knits]

My feeling is that crypto is scum (he sounds so much less obnoxious than usual, his responses are filled with excuses, and his reasons are not very compelling).

I also think MBF might be scum. I won't go into specifics of the exchange with spyrex, since I didn't read it that closely yet. But I think the way this all started between them is that spyrex said he had a bad feeling about mbf. Then mbf said he had a bad feeling about spyrex. Seemed like mbf's bad feeling was only a reaction to spyrex, before he even heard the reasons from spyrex.

AGOTI still scummy, especially after not answering my post though. All she did was respond to crypto. But since I think crypto is scum, makes me doubt my AGOTI feelings a little.

I don't have a problem with prozac though. Him not commenting on spyrex/mbf is a little weird, but sometimes people don't pay attention to flame wars. I dunno.

unvote AGOTI; vote crypto

[elvis_knits]

I'm starting to get a nasty twitch about MBF (especially his RayFrost chug-a-lug).

However its the weekend so I'm not going to try and pin it down - that whole l-2 versus l-1 debate and the sweeping "all the scum are on the wagon" seems like hyper-aggressive posturing.

I'm a bit concerned about Spyrex right now. He's has done almost zero not-Mufasa related talking so far, and he has commented little on RayFrost. Well, except his most recent post where he reacted to a comment I directed at RF. That's a bit suspicious too, because I was actually trying to get under RF's skin, and Spyrex accuses me of "hyper-agressive posturing" instead of waiting to see RF's reaction.

[elvis_knits]

Excuses:

Because my two other games have been in someone's-gonna-die mode, because I had limited access during Thanksgiving vaca, because most of my suspicion was (and still is) a gut read, because I hadn't noticed some of the things that I noticed when you prompted me to reread and make a case, because I've become a fan of voting/pressuring before revealing most or all of my underlying reasons (though there weren't initially many concrete reasons in this case), and because I'm a little lazy.

I need to see you with your hair on fire nailing scum to the wall by their balls or else I don't trust you.

You don't need to be an asshole actually, but I expect you to be a little better at calling out scummy actions. More pro-active.

You read to me like you're not trying to find scum. So it's not so much that you need to be a jerk about it, but that I don't see you trying to scum hunt. Not like I have seen you before.

[elvis_knits]

Aw, there's the crypto we know and love.

Good first step!

Keep going...

[elvis_knits]

pps. you mother f*ckers. I do write up when im not able to get as much access as normal and ive been called out on it by Elvis_Knits, RayFrost and Pome. Please read!! *grumble grumble*

I don't think I did this?

---

MBF hasn't said anything about my post 282, or tried to explain his obvious OMGUS reaction.

Also, and someone might have said this already, his play re: mufasa was pretty scummy.

Well, this is certainly stupid. Mufasa is at lynch-2 and it's not even page 3. I mean, I suppose I should be happier that stuff is happening, but this is just silly.

Mufasa, were you being serious when you claimed to be vanilla townie? Or were you just trying to start the pot?

Notice how he says the wagon is horrible, but he's more than happy to get a claim, and wants to make sure the claim wasn't just a joke. So he is simultaneously derailing the wagon, and fishing for role information on the same person. There is literally no reason you should be fishing for role information on someone when you think the wagon on them is crap. Oh, unless you're scum.

unvote; vote mikeburnfire

[elvis_knits]

Sorry, Spyrex, your point was burried in lots of other stuff!

Crypto, vote mbf. It's time this wagon take off.

[elvis_knits]

Let's make this clear: snow bunny or ray, might be scum, but they're sort of VI's, and beating on them right now is not really productive as they are just going to make themselves look worse no matter their allignment. They are easy targets and being fueled by the other VI's (trying to save their own skin) and legitimately scummy players who I know for a fact are not village idiots. mbf is not a VI. He is our best hope for scum at this point. Wagon him.

Pom is also scummy. Tajo is on point.

GC is town who is expecting a bit too much from rayfrost.

Prozac I'm not sure. GC asking some good questions.

Rofl is MIA.

Basically, we need to start getting our shit together and putting votes together. Spreading out is doing nothing. I suggest people vote mbf.

[elvis_knits]

mike -

You wanted to make sure mufasa was joking? Why? What if he had not been? What was the point of making sure he was joking?

You say the only problem is if mufasa answered you that he really was a vanilla townie because then we'd have an unwarranted role claim. WEREN'T YOU SETTING THAT UP BY ASKING?

I mean, if you just leave it alone or say "he's probably joking," then nobody knows for sure. But you had to ask him if he was joking or not. You had to pin it down.

I cannot honestly believe thatyou think that I was willing to risk my neck to rolefish a claimed vanilla townie.

I cannot honestly think of any reason a town player would need to know this either. Scum have a better reason because they know they don't have to kill this person, and it helps narrow down power roles though. So it's slightly in their favor.

[elvis_knits]

I cannot honestly think of any reason a town player would need to know this either.

If he confirmed his claim of vanilla townie, then that would restrict his ability to fake claim later, which is particularly handy if a cop investigates him. Also, a doctor wouldn't waste his protection ability on him, because he's either a 'powerless' townie or mafia.

I don't see how a vanilla claim is handy for a cop, and I don't see why a doc would ever protect ray. So... my answer to all of that is: no.

@AGOTI: That was the definition of opportunism. You haven't said a single thing about me being suspicious, yet when there are a few votes on me you join in because you're "bored"?

No. She cited reasons. She did say she was bored, but there were reasons in there for voting you. Some of them were agreeing with me and spyrex, but she had a good original bit about "blue pen/red pen" which made me lol and was accurate.

Note: I might disappear until Monday. Getting very busy and Real Life is not being kind.

I hope you're not dead by then!

<3

[elvis_knits]

Oh, Pom.

Way to defend Mike and then wagon him.

My mbf stuff didn't come out of nowhere. I mentioned him in the post I voted crypto. They were two people I was looking at then. You're right that I didn't step into the mbf/spyrex swamp. I didn't really read all the spyrex/mbf back and forth because it seemed like a slap-fight that I was putting off wading through.

And really, why would you care that "my post came out of nowhere" if you agree with my points?

[elvis_knits]

Pom, what was stupid about the defenses you quoted?

If you don't like what elvis is up to ... do you really think she'd bus MBF like that?

I think that post was comination of defending mike with distancing in case he dies, plus a little passive aggressive shot at me since I named her as scum also.

I didn't read all the Spyre/MBF posts either.

I'm not sure anyone did. That's why nobody really commented on it.

Sorry spyrex

[elvis_knits]

Walls were spyrex's fault!

I also watch Glee. lol

[elvis_knits]

But do you watch Glee?

[elvis_knits]

Glee is a tv show.

[elvis_knits]

I'm willing to switch wagon to Pom if needed, although I still approve of mbf.

Mbf, what do you think of pom and is she your scum buddy?

(Glee was awesome, btw).

[elvis_knits]

Hmm

rofl lurking is not a good sign.

[elvis_knits]

So what do we think of the fact that as soon as we rallied a wagon on mbf he got really busy and will be unable to post until monday or something?

Need lynching:
mbf
Pom

Need vigging:
Ray
snowbunny

Need to stop lurking:
rofl
tajo
snow white

[elvis_knits]

I liked your post until you said this:

Or maybe I'll just take a page out of RayFrost's playbook and not do anything to help the town at all. It's worked for him so far.

[elvis_knits]

I know, right? But it helps re-enforce the point that

RayFrost has not been helpful

.

Isn't that his schtick?

[elvis_knits]

Whoa. Deja vu.

[elvis_knits]

I can't sleep. I have been awake for about 24 hours and I need to stay awake for another 20. I'm so very very screwed.

I think I may have figured out the scumteam. It's Ray Frost, and two of [Elvis Knits, Pomegranite, Porochaz]. Of the two, I'd say Porochaz has been the most town, so my initial assumption would be Ray-Elvis-Pom.

My reasons consist of the fact that Ray Frost is obviously scum, and I'm willing to believe that he's foolish enough to forget to comment on his scumbuddies. Elvis latched on to me and really got my wagon started using 3-page old Spyrex attacks. Pomegranite's recent post is absolutely terrible, trying to justify voting me, while at the same time defending me for when I come up as town.

Porochaz, however, was very reluctant to vote Ray, and it was only after Ray failed to make a decent defense post that he voted him. The very next post he went after AGOTI again. And both he and Elvis have been working together to get the AGOTI wagon started. So I could see him as being the third with Elvis and Ray.

No, Pom is YOUR scum buddy.

She defended you and attacked my case on you and then proceeded to vote you.

[elvis_knits]

unvote; vote Pomegranate

We can argue about who her buddy is later.

[elvis_knits]

It's not a matter of clever - although if you think MBF is town what do you think about the fact after we were done with our discussions THEN people saw the light and jumped that way.

I really think it was more a function of the holiday weekend and people not having the time to read your exchange. I don't think it was anything nefarious.

[elvis_knits]

mbf, don't be mad that I think you're scum. Let's just hug it out and lynch Pom.

I'm not voting Pomjust because I think she's your buddy. The way she undercut my case on you and then voted you is scummy even if you're town. Independent of your allignment, her behavior there is scummy.

She has had other questionable behaviors that I commented on. She said rofl was defending his buddy ray and vote rofl. When there was already a wagon on ray. Which makes no sense to vote rofl at that point. I mentioned Pom in my ISO 7 and 15 before I voted her. She is someone I have been suspicious of for some time.

[elvis_knits]

Go away, you bipolar freak.

<3

[elvis_knits]

Who is AGOTI an alt of?

[elvis_knits]

So reading this post again, I think AGOTI's vote isn't bad like prozac and mbf are implying. Her point about Pom's mufasa vote is a good point. If she was trying to start a bandwagon, why would she back off the vote when she realized her vote was third instead of second?

I don't really like AGOTI referring to the merry go round of bandwagons though.

But overall, she has good reason for voting Pom, shows that she is thinking for herself and using her own reasoning.

hmm. after reading her iso, i got two main issues with pom:

- poms' first post, votes mufasa, states "bandwagon!" as her reason
- mbf attacks her for being "opportunistic" by putting a third vote on mufasa
- pom's second post, defends herself by saying she thought it was only the second vote and so it wasn't opportunistic. it wouldn've been opportunistic anyway! and also THE REASON SHE SAID SHE VOTED MUFASA WAS TO START A BANDWAGON!! so she wanted to start a wagon, but she agrees that more than two votes is opportunistic?? that don't add up.

also, ray vote. the only reason for it appears to be "rofl is acting like ray is his scumbuddy". i mean, even turning off my 'ray is obvtown' blinders, i don't see how that is enough of a case that she would be happy to push him to L-1 and demand a claim, and geez guys, you've seen how wagon-happy i am, rite?

eh, i guess i'll see how this one goes. rly hoping the merry go round of rotating wagons lands on prozac next tho.

unvote, vote pomegranate

[elvis_knits]

You totally snipped out everything of mine that doesn't fit your agenda and made me look like I'm supporting your conclusions. Which I am not. You also snipped out all of AGOTI's post that were reasons that made sense.

[elvis_knits]

Well, it's certainly ridiculous that he reduces the case on Pom to one point (when there are other reasons) and calls the one point incredibly flimsy, when HE FOSED POM OVER THAT SAME POINT. Check it out, yo.

If I'm reading this correctly, most of the case on Pom stems from her vote in the Mufasa wagon. If that's the case, then this wagon is incredibly flimsy. Stop wasting time and let's kill RayFrost.

Well, this is certainly stupid. Mufasa is at lynch-2 and it's not even page 3. I mean, I suppose I should be happier that stuff is happening, but this is just silly.

vote: RayFrost

for putting the fifth vote on and

Suspect: spyrex and pomegranate

for similar opportunism.

[elvis_knits]

Sorry for fighting this yesterday.

vote ray

I'm not sure I blame rofl though for his part in the Pome lynch.

[elvis_knits]

Don't do yourself bodily injury, Mike. We are lynching Ray.

[elvis_knits]

crypto is town

SB is 100% obv scum

AGOTI is town

spyrex is 70% scum

prozac is scum

rofl is town

mbf is 40% scum

vote: mikeburnfire

lulz

Among me disagreeing with 9/10 of his reads, he votes for mbf who he puts at 40% scum, rather than SB who he puts at 100% scum

[elvis_knits]

ray can you explain why you are voting mbf who you think has a 40% chance of being scum, over SB, who you think has a 100% chance of being scum?

[elvis_knits]

Mike criticisms of tajo seem based on a misunderstanding. Tajo said that if ray is scum, atleast one buddy is probably bussing him. That's not a criticism of the wagon. That's just a reminder that if ray flips scum, there will be scum on the wagon too. I happen to agree.

Thoughts on Prozac are lukewarm. I'm not sure exactly what rofl is going for here. If I look at that last post and try to find something scummy, I would say that it's prozac wanting to go after AGOTI no matter what ray flips. I think prozac should want to take the info from the ray lynch and refine his read based on that.

I do think that mike and prozac are looking a little desperate for a quickquick ray lynch, but I can understand they feel like that since they think ray should have been lynched yesterday.

[elvis_knits]

guys, seriously, porochaz is obv scum, its burning my eyes.

I need moar explaining on this.

[elvis_knits]

Just to let yall know i am still reading and making notes. Sheesh... you guys really know how to post. 0.o jokes. Will be finished and posted by tomorrow.

But while posting this post to tell yall am reading your posts i wanted to ask AGOTI why am i top town when in all honesty ive seen little on me in this thread for me to be comfortable being considered as such.

Same question to anyone who reads me as one of the top four town players. ->self reminder to be checking back on this.

Don't worry, I don't have you down as town.

Start posting or die.

[elvis_knits]

lol...

This gives AGOTI some street cred

[elvis_knits]

rofl, u need to work harder if you want prozac dead. Like explain why.

[elvis_knits]

Can we lynch ray yet?

[elvis_knits]

no, rofl, crypto is town.

AGOTI probably scum

Tajo might be scum

There also is probably scum on the rayfrost wagon. My top pick for bussingscum on rayfrost wagon is snowbunny.

[elvis_knits]

Crypto has gone after SB, who looks like the most likely to be a bussin on the ray wagon.

[elvis_knits]

Crypto has gone after SB, who looks like the most likely to be a bussin on the ray wagon.

this reasoning is horrible

It's probably right though, even though it might sound horrible.

[elvis_knits]

Where are the rest of the players?

Mod, can we get prod action or notify the others (snow white, mbf, AGOTI) that day has started?

Snow White may need replacement, she's done nothing this whole game.

[elvis_knits]

Meh. In the one game I played with her, Snow White would go longish intervals without posting but then post good content. AGOTI seems to be in and out as well. Plus it's the weekend.

Also, I take back what I said in post 651. It's weird, but I dunno.

I don't even know what you were saying in 651, tbh.

[elvis_knits]

@ snow white

I think the case against you is failure to vote rayfrost, who was mafia godfather. Also, I guess if you look at the VC from yesterday, you were voting mbf with rayfrostmafiagodfather.

[elvis_knits]

Mod, mbf votes SW, and you put him voting rofl...

@SW, Maybe you don't know what the VC is. You seem to think you're about to be lynched, but you only have 1 vote on you. Rofl has 2 and AGOTI has 3.

[elvis_knits]

SW - I wasn't trying to be condescending actually. I was trying to help you since it didn't seem like you really knew what was going on.

[elvis_knits]

I thought 663 was good post actually.

I'm not sure why prozac went big red letters on AGOTI.

[elvis_knits]

Let's lynch tajo instead. I really liked that part of AGOTI's post and analysis.

vote populartajo

[elvis_knits]

Aren't you Scottish?

lol

[elvis_knits]

@SB - I liked the part about tajo, and agreed with that. Not sure about the rofl conclusion.

@SW - nice catchup post, lots of good observations. No problem on being a bit snappish to me... I really was just tyring to help, but things can be read wrong on the internets so I understand. <3

@crypto - what happened to you doing karate chops on SB every post? Do you think she's town at this time?

[elvis_knits]

wow lurker tajo appears right after being voted

[elvis_knits]

Hey, so let's not lynch rofl. I <3 him. Rofl, unvote yourself.

[elvis_knits]

HEY CRYPTO!

I'M THE COP AND I HAVE INNOCENT RESULTS ON ROFL (N1) AND CRYPTO (N2).

I don't know my sanity. I think naive is prob unlikely. So I think either they're both town or both scum. I'm leaning that they're both town. If they're both scum then we have the game in the bag.

Since the doc hasn't died, I think we can come up with some plan where I make a few more inquiries and we lynch someone to be sure of my sanity if needed. I haven't thought of the particulars of this plan, but I think this can be done.

[elvis_knits]

You can also lynch me too if that would help, but I don't think my sanity is revealed upon death. I'll ask myko.

[elvis_knits]

Was it really that stupid to claim?

If so, sorry. It was a bit of an impulse move. I <3 rofl and I don't want him dying if I have an innocent on him.

[elvis_knits]

I investigated both wondering if they were scum. Rofl's light presence in the game worried me. Crypto's play yesterday looked like he might have wanted to derail the rayfrost wagon, even though he eventually hammered. If you look at my first posts for d2 and d3 you'll see me breadcrumb.

[elvis_knits]

So also, we've only had one kill per night, so that means no SK, I think. One mafia team. We lynched the GF, so my results are not subject to GF immunity. The only thing that can screw with my results is sanity. I'd say it's likely I'm either sane or insane, unless we're playing dethy, but I have not gotten the impression that there are multiple people crumbing results like I have. So if I'm the only cop (which lack of crumbs from other people suggest), I'd say I'm either sane or insane, which make my results useful.

[elvis_knits]

Poro could have been bussing. Although if AGOTI flips scum, Poro probably is town. I don't think he's buss two members of his team like that.

[elvis_knits]

I would like to here A. why elvis thinks she isnt naive and B. what myko said to her about sanity reveal?

She thinks she isn't naive because there's no other cop. And if it's true that she's the only cop, she's likely sane.

Actually, I would say I am likely sane or insane if I'm the only cop. Because then I'm still useful. Common wisdom is that if there's only one cop, it's prob sane or insane. Although I have played in two mini's recently with only a paranoid cop. So it is possible. People are mixing it up. But I still think the odds are likely that I am sane or insane.

I tend to think I am sane. One reason is that AGOTI and snow bunny could very well be scum. Or you, mbf, with your attempt to discredit me.

The one situation that I think is possible but not VERY likely is that I am insane, rofl and crypto are both scum who decided to buss each other hard today in hopes that one would get lots of town credit. And I know rofl hates playing scum so maybe that's why he voted himself as the sacrifice. IF this is the case, the good thing about this is that if we lynch rofl and he flips scum, we can lynch crypto the next day and they don't get away with the little sacrifice play. I think we should think very hard about lynching rofl tomorrow if AGOTI flips town, and depending on my results from tonight. Like if I get a guilty on someone tonight we should probably lynch that person... although I gues it depends who it is.

I have not gotten the impression that there are multiple people crumbing results like I have. So if I'm the only cop (which lack of crumbs from other people suggest), I'd say I'm either sane or insane, which make my results useful.

Actually, that quote's a bit of a double-edged sword. I can easily see this coming from a scum-Elvis. "Yeah, I've been looking for cop breadcrumbing, but haven't found any. That's why I decided to fake-claim it". Afterall, if the mafia had a Godfather from the start, then it makes sense that they'd be looking hard for a cop.

You are drunk on WIFOM.

I am not that brave at scum, first of all, but I don't expect you to believe that (this is WIFOM too I guess).

If the mafia knew they had a GF, and expected a cop in the game, it would not make sense for any of the mafia to claim cop since they know they'll get counterclaimed. I mean, if a mafia was just sacrificing themselves to draw out the cop, I would not have been the one to do it. I was not under pressure. And with a cop still in the game, drawing out the cop doesn't help because they will get doc protection for sure. Better off to try to guess who the cop is, hope the doc hasn't figured it out, and try to kill the cop.

I think I'm going to have to bump Elvis below Crypto and ROLF now. Because an Elvis-ROLF scumgroup is starting to look much more possible than I initially thought.

unvote

It is sort of ridiculous that you are now saying I'm scummier than my innocents. If I'm scum, one or both of them is scum, and I claimed to save them. But that's not even going to work since I would probably get counter claimed. And I would have to get the other cop lynched, and when the other cop flips cop, I am screwed, and so is my buddy. It would be a horrible plan for me to fake cop, and not something I could expect to get away with.

---

At this point, mbf is looking pretty bad.

Attempts to discredit me are lame. It would make no sense for a scum to fake claim cop under no pressure, in a game that probably has a cop in it.

But I have really screwed over the scum at this point, because they probably can't kill me. I will get doc protection if there is a doc, and if there isn't a doc, they won't know it. They have to expect there is a doc and avoid killing me.

And if I'm sane, they can't NK either of my innocents without proving my sanity for me. AH-HA!

So, the scum are fucked at this point. Me, rofl, and crypto all make it to tomorrow morning, and by then I have another result.

(If on the other hand, I am insane, and rofl and crypto are scum, hey, we can think about lynch one of them to find out. With another result from tomorrow, hopefully we can figure out my sanity.)

Basically, the scum are fucked right now whatever my sanity is.

The only thing that could make this situation better form them is an attempt to discredit me, which is what mbf is doing.

[elvis_knits]

Oh, whoops, I forgot! When a cop claims, everybody has to drop everything and play follow-the-cop! We shouldn't be trying to scumhunt! We should just be lynching people at random and letting Elvis guide the entire town. Because there is

NO

way that cop claim could be a lie!

But, in all seriousness, it's perfectly normal to be skeptical of a sudden cop claim. Get pissy if you want, but I'm not going to stop hunting.

I never told you to stop scum hunting. I said it's stupid for you to start suspecting me of being scum BECAUSE I claimed cop, when that would be an absolutely stupid play for scum to make.

Now, I'm not even considering a Naive cop at this point. And the likelihood of Elvis being an insane cop who hit both the remaining scum in a row isn't likely either. I'll have to go back and see if there's a crypto-rolf connection, but I can't recall any off the top of my head.The two most likely possibilities are either (A) Elvis is legit sane cop, and ROLF and Crypto are town or (B) Elvis is a liar scum who is pretending to be cop. In the second scenario, if ROLF is scum, then Elvis is most likely scum too, but if Elvis is scum then that does not necessarily mean that ROLF is scum too.

I think A is more likely, which is why I claimed! duh.

I know B is not possible since I am not scum. But I already said that I am slightly afraid of [(C)I am insane and crypto and rofl are both scum and went into mega-buss-and-sacrifice mode today] So I think we should keep possibility (C) in mind for the future. And if we lynch one and they flip scum, we lynch the other, and then if you must, you can lynch me. If my sanity make me look scummy, I don't mind dying at all, as long as I have helped take down some scum on the way out. I have said from the beginning that if lynching me helps the town in some way like to prove my results, I am on board.

I think it's sort of stupid/scummy though for mbf to say "if we lynch rofl and he flips scum, we lynch elvis next." I think we would lynch crypto next, since rofl-scum would mean I am insane (or scum). But wouldn't you want to lynch the non-cop option first? Also, presumably I will have more actions by then to help us sort this out.

If the mafia knew they had a GF, and expected a cop in the game, it would not make sense for any of the mafia to claim cop since they know they'll get counterclaimed.

... but if the mafia somehow realized that a cop didn't exist, then claiming cop is the perfect opportunity to dominate the game.

...and how would the mafia be sure there was no cop?? That makes no sense.

I have not suggested that we lynch any of the elvis-rolf-crypto trio today. That's just stupid. But that doesn't mean I have to instantly believe that you're all town, either. That's pure naivete.

I don't expect you to instantly believe we're town, but a number of things you have brought up here are scummy. Suggesting scum fake claiming cop out of nowhere is at all likely in a game which is expected to have a cop. Suggesting scum would somehow be sure enough there isn't a cop to pull a dumb gambit. Saying "if rofl flips scum, lynch the cop," and ignoring the fact I could be insane. Nevermind you're drunk on WIFOM, saying "I could see a scumElvis saying "x.""

The best course of action is, in my opinion, to lynch somebody who has played poorly (IE AGOTI, snow bunny, tajo) and see what happens during the night. If elvis dies, then we see his sanity. Sane? Clears rolf and crypto. Insane? kill rolf and crypto. If either crypto or rolf dies, then elvis will have another investigation result to give us, and if it's a guilty then we kill 'em. If it's another innocent result then I might have to go after Elvis instead.

I asked the mod if my sanity will be revealed upon death. I know the answer, but not sure I should say it. I'd rather leave the scum guessing.

But actually, this course of action is probably good. If this is your course of action, why were you piling on all those crap attacks on me?

[elvis_knits]

I never told you to stop scum hunting. I said it's stupid for you to start suspecting me of being scum BECAUSE I claimed cop, when that would be an absolutely stupid play for scum to make.

Actually, that part was directed at ROFL, who seemed appalled that I wouldn't instantly drop everything and believe you.

You seem much more suspicious of me after I claimed cop that before. Which doesn't make sense. If someone who you are not actively persuing as scum claims cop when not under pressure, you don't automatically start thinking they could be scum.

I think it's sort of stupid/scummy though for mbf to say "if we lynch rofl and he flips scum, we lynch elvis next." I think we would lynch crypto next, since rofl-scum would mean I am insane (or scum).

Whoa, hold on there! This is what I said:

If either crypto or rolf dies, then elvis will have another investigation result to give us, and if it's a guilty then we kill 'em. If it's another innocent result then I might have to go after Elvis instead.

I have not suggested we lynch crypto or rofl. I suggested that if we get to tomorrow and there has been no progress (two dead townies, no guilty result), then I'm going to dig deeper at you. My biggest worry with regards to you is getting to LyLo phase.

Why would another innocent result make you want to lynch me?

Why are you so worried about me now that I have claimed cop? Before I claimed cop, I don't think I was a big worry for you. We had a little tiff D1, but we haven't really been at each other since then. I don't think you were particularly interested in me.

My thinking is that my claim should not make me MORE suspicious to you. Fake claiming cop when not under suspicion does not make sense. You should either feel the same about me or better, but not worse.

...and how would the mafia be sure there was no cop?? That makes no sense.

Are you playing stupid? Here's what you said: "

but I have not gotten the impression that there are multiple people crumbing results like I have. So if I'm the only cop (which lack of crumbs from other people suggest), I'd say I'm either sane or insane, which make my results useful.

" If you are scum who has been looking for breadcrumbing and have not found any, but you know we're all expecting a cop, then claiming cop is the PERFECT scum opportunity.

That is STOOPID.

Have you ever seen that situation happen? Becuase I sure haven't.

You aren't even taking into account that I made breadcrumbs early D2 and D3. So I would have had to plan this really risky gambit before even knowing if other people were crumbing or not. I would have had to put this plan into effect and made my own crumbs BEFORE I was sure that nobody else was crumbing. So I would have had to do it blind.

Suggesting scum fake claiming cop out of nowhere is at all likely in a game which is expected to have a cop.

'Expected to have' are the key words here.

Your point?

Saying "if rofl flips scum, lynch the cop,"

Haven't said that.

(B) Elvis is a liar scum who is pretending to be cop. In the second scenario, if ROLF is scum, then Elvis is most likely scum too, but if Elvis is scum then that does not necessarily mean that ROLF is scum too.

and ignoring the fact I could be insane.

I didn't ignore it. I specifically stated that it was unlikely.

Because then I would have hit scum twice in a row?

I fail to see how that is more unlikely than all the shit scenarios you're coming up with.

Nevermind you're drunk on WIFOM, saying "I could see a scumElvis saying "x."

Please stop calling it WIFOM. WIFOM is what I'm trying to avoid. All I'm saying is that the quotes you made can be said by copElvis or scumElvis. I can see both possibilities.

No, you're saying that you can see scumElvis saying [whatever]. You're not saying you could see it either way. You're arguing for one choice over the other when you have no way of knowing which it is.

If this is your course of action, why were you piling on all those crap attacks on me?

It's incredibly possible for you to be a lying scum. Whenever I point this out it seems like you and ROFL get mad. Whassamatter? Worried that I don't see through your ruse? You can relax. Like I said, we have better things to do today than lynch a claimed cop. Like, lynch a lurker. Maybe if we say his name three times he'll appear. He's like a genie that way.

The problem is that it seems like you're laying the groundwork to discredit me and lynch me. While totally ignoring that it makes no sense for a scum to do what I have done. You're coming up with bad long-shot scenarios that don't even make sense to try to find a way that I might be scum. I would be okay with this level of suspicion if I had claimed under pressure, or if you had seemed more suspicious of me before. But I wasn't that important to you before claiming cop, and now you're coming up with really shaky, bad reasoning to try to throw doubt on me.

[elvis_knits]

MBF why did you unvote AGOTI?

Because he was hoping to swing the lynch back onto me because that is scum's best shot to win right now. Look at the post he unvotes AGOTI. He's starting to really push his elvis-scum idea.

I would like to here A. why elvis thinks she isnt naive and B. what myko said to her about sanity reveal?

She thinks she isn't naive because there's no other cop. And if it's true that she's the only cop, she's likely sane.

I have not gotten the impression that there are multiple people crumbing results like I have. So if I'm the only cop (which lack of crumbs from other people suggest), I'd say I'm either sane or insane, which make my results useful.

Actually, that quote's a bit of a double-edged sword. I can easily see this coming from a scum-Elvis. "Yeah, I've been looking for cop breadcrumbing, but haven't found any. That's why I decided to fake-claim it". Afterall, if the mafia had a Godfather from the start, then it makes sense that they'd be looking hard for a cop.

I think I'm going to have to bump Elvis below Crypto and ROLF now. Because an Elvis-ROLF scumgroup is starting to look much more possible than I initially thought.

unvote

[elvis_knits]

So I haven't read through everything. Relatives will not leave my house

But I was thinking about mbf, and I don't think I want to lynch him today. I do think his reaction to my claim has been wrong and all his scenarios where I could be scum are flawed. Which makes me suspicious of him being scum and trying to discredit the cop. BUT, it does looked like he was very much against ray all game. So either he bused ray early and hard, or he's town. A buss like that is possible, though less likely. It's basically the only thing keeping me from voting him at this point.

Also, I was thinking maybe he's still mad at me for "trying to kill him" D1. Mike, if you are still mad... get over it!

[elvis_knits]

I'm pretty much over that. In fact, we have a lot in common now.

AGOTI probably scum

Tajo might be scum

There also is probably scum on the rayfrost wagon. My top pick for bussingscum on rayfrost wagon is snowbunny.

You made this post earlier in the day, and I tend to agree with it. The only difference is that right now I'm seeing a Tajo-AGOTI wagon. Don't forget that Tajo was also on the RayFrost wagon, but kept prolonging his vote.

Yeah, I remember tajo did prolong his vote. He also hasn't been a very strong presence all game, which he has a good excuse for, but still makes it more difficult to judge him. I haven't looked at his latest posts this page, I think I need more brainpower to go through them. When I get a minute I'll read them and look over his ISO for the whole game and make some comments.

But yes, my top picks for scum are probably still the same as I said in that quote.

So we probably lynch AGOTI today. I think she'll flip scum. But if she flips town, then we might have to think of changing our plans slightly. Partly might depend on my investigation result. Like if I can get a guilty, I think we lynch that person. If that person flips scum, hooray! If the person flips town, then we lynch rofl, crypto, and maybe even me if there is more scum. I fully understand that if I am insane, and rofl and crypto are scum, that I will look like scum, and I am prepared to be lynched. By that time though I would have brought down 2 scum, and if there's another scum out there, hopefully I can get you that investigation or confirm some innocents. So you'll probably still win after lynching me, even in the event that rofl and crypto are both scum.

I'm not going to vote AGOTI before I give tajo a read though.

[elvis_knits]

Hmmm, I didn't game it out in terms of numbers.

So what do we do to avoid that? You could lynch me tomorrow but that won't tell you my sanity. It will tell you that I'm not scum though.

[elvis_knits]

You'd need to convince me that mbf would buss ray that hard and that early.

[elvis_knits]

Mike, stop making me want to lynch you.

[elvis_knits]

Hey, that was good, rofl.

[elvis_knits]

Honestly if you read the first five pages or so, tajo comes off the worst in response to ray.

Rayfrost and rolf are town. Spyrex is almost there. Flashy is also ok.

Then look what ray asks him:

reasoning for me-town?

reasoning for spyrex leaning town?

reasoning for rolf misspelling?

reasoning for me town?

relaxed tone, reminds me of your play in pokemon, your analysis in 52 looks good and i doubt spamming the thread this early is a good idea for a scumbag.

reasoning for spyrex leaning town?

spyrexscum lurks and his posts feel stressed. basically a relaxed spyrex is a town spyrex. I need more to give him his normal town status, though.

reasoning for rolf misspelling?

lmoa.

Did you notice that ray did not ask why tajo thought rofl was town? Hmmmm?


Overall,
mbf is the first to vote ray, then a few posts later, rofl votes ray. So that looks pretty good for both of them (unless it was the uberbuss).

However, ray's comments about mbf are bad for mike, IMO.

Neutral about mike - disagreement is not a scum tell, imo

leaning more town on it than not:

he could've just hopped on as well or fence sat, but he instead suspected people for bandwagoning.

otoh:

mike-scum could do that to wrongly place town in suspicion early on (maybe adding a scum buddy in the suspicion to spice it up).

I find the first more likely though.

So here we have mbf attacking a scumray, and ray rolling over and taking it, even saying mbf is probably town. That does suggest a possible buss to me. Otherwise he's going to a lot of trouble to say someone attacking him is town.

[elvis_knits]

Yeah my last post was sort of muddled, like my exhausted mind.

But my point about ray and tajo not mentioning "why rofl is town" -- I was thinking it could indicate that they knew he was town and thought he looked obv town anyway. But now that I think about it I don't know what it means. I think it's weird, but I dunno.

[elvis_knits]

SB's facts are wrong.

I wasn't sure rofl was town. I might have said he was town early in D1, but the more he lurked, the more worried I became. Remember when I said this:

Hmm

rofl lurking is not a good sign.

Also, after rofl voted Pome and then ray quickhammered and pome flipped town, I became MUCH more suspicious of rofl. And I couldn't exactly indicate that in thread because we were in night.

[elvis_knits]

The SK comment is ridiculous

[elvis_knits]

I think tajo is L-1?

[elvis_knits]

That's all you have to say?

Do you want me to talk about how much you're contradicting yourself and making no sense? Or how you seem like a crazy person?

[elvis_knits]

I dunno, my thinking hasn't really changed. Tajo is scummy, Agoti was looking slightly better before so much lurking. SB is scummy. 820 had a number of things that were wrong in it, used to suspect people.

I'm mostly feeling like I don't know what to do since the peole I just cleared, you and rofl, are being weird. Rofl wants mike dead, which I understand, and he might be right, but I sort of think he's wrong. And rofl usually isn't wrong. And crypto, you're talking about SK's who don't exist and flipping your scum list around like crazy, and voting people you just said were looking townie...

Basically, this is all fucked up, and I was just sort of hoping things got better.

[elvis_knits]

I get why the SK

probably

doesn't exist. I don't get why a third party doesn't exist.

What kinds of third party are you expecting? SK and second mafia are pretty much out due to lack of kills. There's been no sign of cult leader or cultist. Survivor is of no real significance.

My thoughts exactly.

[elvis_knits]

See, this is a stupid tangent. Until there is evidence of another killer or a dead cult member, I am not spending my time on it.

[elvis_knits]

Aww, how cute.

[elvis_knits]

unvote; vote snow bunny

[elvis_knits]

YEs, I meant to vote snow bunny, not you.

Although I still wish I could be voting tajo at the same time.

[elvis_knits]

Also, elvis, thanks for getting an avatar I'm not completely humiliated to see on my screen every time I check the thread.

Underwear humiliates you?

Weirdo.

...

Also, I voted SB because she is scum.

And because she wants to lynch the cop and the cop's two innocent results.

And because she misrepped me in 820 re: my feelings on rofl.

[elvis_knits]

Weeeeeeeeeeeeee~

[elvis_knits]

Actually, any of SB, AGOTI, tajo dying today would be good.

[elvis_knits]

rofl is late to the party

[elvis_knits]

I think SB might actually, be L-2, so somebody else should count and then vote her if needed. I want to see if she pees her pants when she checks the thread.

[elvis_knits]

Surely its time to start the new cycle of:

Myko prods AGOTI

AGOTI makes one fairly shitty post

AGOTI goes lurky again

2/3 finished with current cycle

[elvis_knits]

Oh, hai. If that was a lynch then AGOTI is in for it.

I don't think it is... you, me, mbf all unvoted tajo

[elvis_knits]

Poro, what do you make of the other two scummy people being your company on the AGOTI wagon?

[elvis_knits]

SB... it's like really idiotic for you to be arguing this when half the game hasn't claimed. I really see not benefit to you doing this from a town or a scum perspective, unless you're scum and hoping to try to lynch the cop. Which clearly isn't gonna happen. What are you doing?

[elvis_knits]

No, I've totally been in mountainous games that we didn't know were mountainous and I've been in games where all the PR's were useless (and so the game was really a mod-screw mountainous). But like... we're not there yet. I don't know why she thinks we are when half the people haven't claimed, or why she would use this as a basis to lynch the cop -- like you said. How about analyzing the game instead of guessing the setup?

It's either a scum flail or a dumb move, I think.

[elvis_knits]

If AGOTI would be halfway involved in the game I think I would like him/her/it more. However, the lurking has reached a new level of lameness.

crypto, you have thought SB was scum for a long time. Still agree?

[elvis_knits]

No, LET'S FIGHT!!!!!!!!

GRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!

But seriously though, what makes you want tajo instead but not AGOTI? I'm thinking about AGOTI because it is not helping with anything.

[elvis_knits]

Also, they both claimed vanilla, so neither one is safer really. Both are either vanilla or scum.

[elvis_knits]

I will miss crypto...

---

I don't like tajo comparing my play in this game to his play in /invy4. It's sort of stupid. I was in that game with him and I saw how well that worked for him, which was... not at all. So I don't know why he thinks I would try the same thing.

Do I have to explain again how dumb it would be for me to fake claim cop to save rofl or crypto?

If the mafia knew they had a GF, and expected a cop in the game, it would not make sense for any of the mafia to claim cop since they know they'll get counterclaimed. I mean, if a mafia was just sacrificing themselves to draw out the cop, I would not have been the one to do it. I was not under pressure. And with a cop still in the game, drawing out the cop doesn't help because they will get doc protection for sure. Better off to try to guess who the cop is, hope the doc hasn't figured it out, and try to kill the cop.

[elvis_knits]

I understand now!

[elvis_knits]

unvote

I want to go through that AGOTI post more carefully but don't have time now.

[elvis_knits]

I also want to see what prozac says about it. He's had almost no heat all game.

[elvis_knits]

wtf

[elvis_knits]

wtf directed to both you and AGOTI...

you for saying "hey thanks for letting me know my claim so I don't try to fake something else"

AGOTI for saying "gee, I hope somebody freaks out about what you just said"

[elvis_knits]

Your response was still idiotic... since nobody except scum should be fakeclaiming.

[elvis_knits]

I think the consensus is that we can lynch any of tajo/SB/AGOTI. Tajo and SB already claimed vanilla.

The game has been dragging... I think we've sort of stopped caring.

I'm not sure I want to lynch tajo only because every time I've seen him as scum he fake claims a PR. I mean, most people do... but not everyone. I just remember LAL mafia where he faked tracker and invy4 faked hider. So I just feel like he would fake a PR if he was scum. This is very WIFOM, but it's what I'm thinking...

I think we should kill SB or AGOTI...

I don't even remember who I'm voting... SB?

I'll go for a

unvote; vote AGOTI

for her comments about "I hope somebody freaks out about your fake claiming comments."

[elvis_knits]

I'll go for a

unvote; vote AGOTI

for her comments about "I hope somebody freaks out about your fake claiming comments."

dude, seriously? of all the reasons you could have for voting me, that's the one you're going with? like, how is that even scummy? idgi

I am not a dude. I am a dudete.

You were basically saying "I hope you guys start fighting with each other! Pass the popcorn!" Like you knew rhinox was town, but you were hoping for some town on town action. Amirite?

[elvis_knits]

rofl, please get your head in this game.

Also, if you're scum and I've gotten rear-ended with a fucking insane cop role, I will fucking kill you.

I will always love you though.

<3

[elvis_knits]

If you lynch me, all you going to get is a dead VT. Probably one that hasn't played too well, but a town member in the end. If you lynch AGOTI, chances are that you'll end with a scum dead.

And I will tell all of you "I told you so" when the setup is shown at the end.

God this post makes me want to switch my vote back to you.

[elvis_knits]

unvote vote snowbunny

Gogogogo!

[elvis_knits]

unvote; vote tajo

You know what's funny about all the talk of "tajo hoping gf-ray was investigated by the cop" is that I purposely didn't investigate ray since I thought that he was so scummy-looking he would be lynched no matter what. And in the event that he was town he was really not worth outing myself over. So I didn't even bother to go there. lol.

[elvis_knits]

SB, read 1025

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... start=1025

[elvis_knits]

Oh right. It's based in scum trying to blend as town by reading between lines where there's nothing to read. Good case.

Stop making me sorry we didn't lynch you.