Flash Mafia: You won!

[roflcopter]

yeah every now and then i have a flash of brilliance

[mikeburnfire]

Well, to my credit, I haven't ever played a game with RayFrost, as I only recently got back into playing mafia.

And Ray's vote wasn't saving me. I'm pretty sure you've made that claim before, but the wagon on me had died off and Pom's was waivering. Ray saw a potential mislynch fading and jumped on the opportunity.

Answer my questions please.

[roflcopter]

questions. right. knew i missed something.

@ ROFL
If I flipped town, would you still go after Porochaz?

i hate these "if i flip town then what" type questions, but the answer is yes. i believe that what you're doing is scummier than what prozac is doing, which is why i'm trying to lynch you and not him right now. but if you are town, his more subtle support of your position re: cop and his obvious buddying with you make him the obvscum who is happy to have you as his pet townie.

Likewise, if Porochaz flipped town, would you still go after me?

this is unlikely to come up since if i get my way you die first, but yes because what you're doing is scummy in its own right, and does not need to be connected to prozac to be scummy. the fact that you two can't stop fawning over how town the other one is just makes me more sure that you're scum together.

If neither of us are scum, then would I be correct in assuming you'd go after AGOTI and Tajo?

yes, if i had a good reason to believe neither one of you was scum, i would likely be after agoti and tajo. agoti raised a good point in regards to the wagon on you, which is if she is town you are almost guaranteed to be scum because no scum were even attempting to push a counterwagon on you when rayfrost was getting run up on day one. given that i strongly believe you are scum, i currently think agoti is highly likely to be town. the way that argument was just presented also felt very town. it was made in a "this needs to be looked at after i'm dead, since i'm already a dead man walking" sort of way, something that dead scum walking aren't often inclined to do.

Well, to my credit, I haven't ever played a game with RayFrost, as I only recently got back into playing mafia.

even the most cursory meta investigation of ray would reveal that he is like kryptonite to his faction. i have no way of proving whether or not you meta'd anyone, but if you did draw a scum role i would expect a player of your caliber to check out the credentials of his new scumpartners, so the uber-bus of ray is not made less likely by the fact that you've only just returned to playing mafia after a long absence.

---

i've just realized one possibility that will make me stop going after you. normally it would not be good play to ask for a claim here, but since we already have claimed cop + two still living innocent results, and you and prozac are not among that group of people, if you are masons together you should just claim now. if you are not masons, obviously do not claim, but accept the fact that i will not stop trying to lynch you.

five innocents is practically guaranteed to be an insurmountable obstacle for the scum, and it would nicely explain all the buddy-buddy "he's more town than even the claimed cop" crap you two have been pulling.

[Porochaz]

Vote count

Pomegranate(5): populartajo, crypto, elvis_knits, SpyreX, a girl on the internet
Rayfrost(3): Green Crayons, mikeburnfire, Porochaz
Snow_bunny(2): roflcopter, Rayfrost
mikeburnfire(1): Pomegranate
a girl on the internet(1): Snow_Bunny


Not voting (1): Snow White.

with 13 players, it is 7 to lynch


Prodding Snow White.

Day one final vote count

Pomegranate(7): populartajo, crypto, elvis_knits, SpyreX, a girl on the internet, Roflcopter, Rayfrost.
Rayfrost(3): Green Crayons, mikeburnfire, Porochaz
mikeburnfire(1): Pomegranate
a girl on the internet(1): Snow_Bunny


Not voting (1): Snow White.

with 13 players, it is 7 to lynch

Pomegranate was lynched. She was a vanilla townie.

Night 1 has started, and will end in 3 days.

The one before had ray and Mike on 4 votes apiece... I think it more likely that Ray was just trying to save his own skin with Pom wavering and the mbf wagon gone.

[Porochaz]

Incidentally, if you can remember back rofl, AGOTI why did you put votes 5 and 6 on Pom?

[elvis_knits]

Honestly if you read the first five pages or so, tajo comes off the worst in response to ray.

Rayfrost and rolf are town. Spyrex is almost there. Flashy is also ok.

Then look what ray asks him:

reasoning for me-town?

reasoning for spyrex leaning town?

reasoning for rolf misspelling?

reasoning for me town?

relaxed tone, reminds me of your play in pokemon, your analysis in 52 looks good and i doubt spamming the thread this early is a good idea for a scumbag.

reasoning for spyrex leaning town?

spyrexscum lurks and his posts feel stressed. basically a relaxed spyrex is a town spyrex. I need more to give him his normal town status, though.

reasoning for rolf misspelling?

lmoa.

Did you notice that ray did not ask why tajo thought rofl was town? Hmmmm?


Overall,
mbf is the first to vote ray, then a few posts later, rofl votes ray. So that looks pretty good for both of them (unless it was the uberbuss).

However, ray's comments about mbf are bad for mike, IMO.

Neutral about mike - disagreement is not a scum tell, imo

leaning more town on it than not:

he could've just hopped on as well or fence sat, but he instead suspected people for bandwagoning.

otoh:

mike-scum could do that to wrongly place town in suspicion early on (maybe adding a scum buddy in the suspicion to spice it up).

I find the first more likely though.

So here we have mbf attacking a scumray, and ray rolling over and taking it, even saying mbf is probably town. That does suggest a possible buss to me. Otherwise he's going to a lot of trouble to say someone attacking him is town.

[mykonian]

vote count

A girl on the internet (3): Porochaz, Snow_Bunny, Populartajo
Populartajo (2): elvis_knits, Snow White
Mikeburnfire (2): Roflcopter, a girl on the internet
Snow Bunny (1): crypto

Not voting (1): mikeburnfire.

with 9 players, it is 5 to lynch

[Snow White]

The whole rofl vs. mike thing bores me. But at least it seems to be cooling off to be someway pleasant.

@Poro. We're all lucky But humour me.

Im seeing an AGOTI and Snow Bunny/Tajo as the scum pair. Unfortunetly I havent seen enough of White to pass judgement. However I am interested in the interaction between them both at the moment.

really at the moment Im waiting for tajo to respond to you and once again I got you and Bunny mixed up... which makes a lot more sense

so is SB the person you need to see more, or is it me and my interaction with tajo? Who you think maybe my scum buddy or is it Snow Bunny? Those two texts have just utterly bent me over a barrel.

@Elvis. Fail on the quote tags. If you hadnt claimed cop with no CC i'd have gone after you like a rabbid dog. just saying...

The only thing that troubles my mind about Tajo is his last interactions with Ray. Pre-Rayscum hammer on Pome ~ Twilight.

@Elvis, what did you make of that if you dont mind my asking? I thought Tajo seemed quite perplexed at the time... But like i said his other post just toally rubbed me up the wrong way.

[populartajo]

Tajo is scum. No one with half a brain cell should sit back and question nothing. And frankly i felt Mike was carrying a great deal of heat from Rofl so i gave my two cents to his arguement, which if im scum was probably not the wisest thing to do in the face of a claimed cop. I was not discrediting her claim in fact i said i believed it, but i could see where mike was coming from but that i would not even consider Elvis's lynch unless there was a counter claim. - is this rubbishing her claims Tajo?

I take this as a summary of the white's vote against me.

Look, white, the logic is pretty simple here. I explained why it is very likely that elvis is telling the truth. So if I assume elvis is indeed a sane cop and that rolf and crpto are indeed good investigations, then logic tells me that if there is a group of people trying to go against the likeliness of elvis being a cop, then its very likely there is a scum hidden there.

Do you disagree with that logic?= If yes, why?

I never called you the scum of that group, so why are you acting as if I called you that?

[populartajo]

we avoid the problem altogether when we lynch mike and he flips scum

why dont you just read what I posted about him in my post and tell me why do you disagree with me?

[populartajo]

Did you notice that ray did not ask why tajo thought rofl was town? Hmmmm?

I dont understand why this is notable. Elvis?

[Snow_Bunny]

Btw, there's no mention whatsoever to the deadline in the rules nor in the first page nor in the votecounts.

Mod, when is the deadline?

[roflcopter]

we avoid the problem altogether when we lynch mike and he flips scum

why dont you just read what I posted about him in my post and tell me why do you disagree with me?

i've made very clear why i believe he is scum and why there isn't any compelling reason to think he could not have bussed ray

[Porochaz]

Hi Rofl, I don't believe you've commented on 766 yet or answered my question in 804.

Just letting you know.

[mikeburnfire]

if you did draw a scum role i would expect a player of your caliber to check out the credentials of his new scumpartners

I'm super-flattered that you consider me 'high-caliber', but you give me too much credit. If there one playstyle of mine that is the same regardless of my alignment, it's that I never prepare- I just play things by ear. I'm great at adapting.

But it's good to know your reasons for voting me aren't just OMGUS.

the way that argument was just presented also felt very town. it was made in a "this needs to be looked at after i'm dead, since i'm already a dead man walking" sort of way, something that dead scum walking aren't often inclined to do.

I can't tell you how many times I've faked that stuff. I really can't keep count because I've done it so much. It's gotten me out of plenty a lynching.

if you are not masons, obviously do not claim, but accept the fact that i will not stop trying to lynch you.

Prozac and I aren't masons together. We merely think that each others' behavior with regards to RayFrost is not indicative of scum.

@ Elvis, with regards to RayFrost
I think we can deduce a LOT more from other peoples' posts than we can from RayFrost's posts. Pretty much everything Ray said was stacked with unhelpfulness and WIFOM garbage. With that said, I don't really see the point you are trying to make with regards to RF not asking Tajo about ROFL. I think a far more damning argument about Tajo is his wavering on Ray's Day 2 lynch, especially considering his reaction on the Pom hammer.

[mykonian]

Btw, there's no mention whatsoever to the deadline in the rules nor in the first page nor in the votecounts.

Mod, when is the deadline?

there isn't yet one. Keep it that way

[Porochaz]

Hi, Im on holiday until the 31st and then LA until the 1st. Will post after then. Have a good new year.

[Snow White]

Post holder.

OKay. Im a likkle hungover, will post tomorrow.

@Snow Bunny... correct me if im mistaken but is there nothing else to comment on other than asking when the deadline is?

[elvis_knits]

Yeah my last post was sort of muddled, like my exhausted mind.

But my point about ray and tajo not mentioning "why rofl is town" -- I was thinking it could indicate that they knew he was town and thought he looked obv town anyway. But now that I think about it I don't know what it means. I think it's weird, but I dunno.

[mikeburnfire]

I'd like a little more from Snow Bunny other than "I'm V/LA. When's deadline?"

You said in your last few posts that you believed the claimed cop and two innocents and that you're still 100% for an AGOTI lynch. You also say that you get good vibes from me, Snow White, and Porochaz. The only person left then is Tajo.

I'd like your current opinion on Porochaz and Snow White, as well as your thoughts on a possible Tajo-AGOTI scumgroup?

[Snow_Bunny]

How can people say it's possible I am AGOTI's scum partner? Then, you are saying that I would bus both of my scum partners (provided there are three scums)? In such a small game? Right. I know that goes into wifom, but really, I can't see a scum doing that. Since D1 I've been all over Ray and AGOTI.

I'm really not liking Rofl's change of attitude from "lynch me I don't care" to "I'm confirmed town let's lynch the one who's against that". But, as I said before, let's leave this matter for tomorrow. Today's is AGOTI's day.

After reading some previous posts, I am getting some interesting ideas. I am finding a link between Elvis and Rofl on D1. On D1 she tries to stop Ray's lynch with the defence of "he's a VI". I don't get something about her claim. She says she investigated Rofl on D1 because she was worried of her lack of presence, yet she had a town read on him on D1. The post about not gaining anything lynching her due to sanities issues seems like a safe escape. Right now I'm willing to say that the scum team is Ray-Rolf-Evils, with Crypto being town (a safe result for her to claim, as she believe there are no third party). With the sanity she's keeping us under guessing, and preventing from lynching her or her partner. I know it is a bit risky, but it wouldn't be the first time a scum claimed cop and survived till endgame. If she was truly uncertain about her sanity, wouldn't letting Rolf be lynched helped her with that? Instead, she decided to claim, to come out in the open (with the uncertainty of town having a doctor) just to save an innocent result, with the chance of such result being scum (taking into account Rofl's scummy play). A risky gambit for a scum to made, but if you think it from that point of view, it's also a very risky play for a town to make. If we assume three scum players, Elvis would be left alone if Ray is to be lynched. That would make 6 vs 1 on D4. Very hard for scum to win in that situation, imo.

The breadcrumbs could just be part of the plan. Hey, it's not like scum always improvise. They can make plans, you know.

So, after that, I'm not sure anymore if today really is AGOTI's day.

I still find SW and Poroz town. And, on light of that new thought, I can't say much on Tajo. There's something I don't like about his posts. Can't say exactly what it is. As someone else said, there's certainly a connection between him and AGOTI, but I would prefer first an AGOTI's flip in order to build a case upon that.

I, for now, would like to hear your thoughts regarding the possible Rolf-Elvis scum team.

[mikeburnfire]

How can people say it's possible I am AGOTI's scum partner? Then, you are saying that I would bus both of my scum partners (provided there are three scums)?

Tell me about it, sister.

After reading some previous posts, I am getting some interesting ideas. I am finding a link between Elvis and Rofl on D1. On D1 she tries to stop Ray's lynch with the defence of "he's a VI". I don't get something about her claim. She says she investigated Rofl on D1 because she was worried of her lack of presence, yet she had a town read on him on D1. The post about not gaining anything lynching her due to sanities issues seems like a safe escape. Right now I'm willing to say that the scum team is Ray-Rolf-Evils, with Crypto being town (a safe result for her to claim, as she believe there are no third party). With the sanity she's keeping us under guessing, and preventing from lynching her or her partner. I know it is a bit risky, but it wouldn't be the first time a scum claimed cop and survived till endgame. If she was truly uncertain about her sanity, wouldn't letting Rolf be lynched helped her with that? Instead, she decided to claim, to come out in the open (with the uncertainty of town having a doctor) just to save an innocent result, with the chance of such result being scum (taking into account Rofl's scummy play). A risky gambit for a scum to made, but if you think it from that point of view, it's also a very risky play for a town to make. If we assume three scum players, Elvis would be left alone if Ray is to be lynched. That would make 6 vs 1 on D4. Very hard for scum to win in that situation, imo.

I agree with most of that. I think I was the first to express doubt on Elvis's claim. I do think the possibility of Elvis being scum is real, and the sanity thing is incriminating, and investigating somebody she had a town read on is a negative aspect I had not picked up on yet. Another point that I think hurts Elvis that you briefly mentioned was how she alluded to being unkillable during the night, even though there's been no sign of a doctor.

However, if Elvis is town then I can understand why she'd reveal herself to save an innocent result. I'd probably have done the same if I was a cop in her shoes. There's no guarantee that she would have survived one more night, so letting an innocent result get lynched in the hopes of getting another investigation is not wise.

Regardless, the cop claim is sturdy enough to last another day, and I'm not in favor of lynching any of that trio today. Good post, though.

[roflcopter]

I'm really not liking Rofl's change of attitude from "lynch me I don't care" to "I'm confirmed town let's lynch the one who's against that".

wow, thats a horrific misrepresentation. it was never "lynch me i don't care" it was "lynch me because its better for my mislynch to happen today rather than at endgame"

[elvis_knits]

SB's facts are wrong.

I wasn't sure rofl was town. I might have said he was town early in D1, but the more he lurked, the more worried I became. Remember when I said this:

Hmm

rofl lurking is not a good sign.

Also, after rofl voted Pome and then ray quickhammered and pome flipped town, I became MUCH more suspicious of rofl. And I couldn't exactly indicate that in thread because we were in night.

[crypto]

Sorry for the absence, guys. Checking in. Will read up tonight / tomorrow morning.