Flash Mafia: You won!

[Porochaz]

So AGOTI hasnt posted yet?

Anyway Im aware that Im like a dog with a bone here on AGOTI so Im going through the players as well. This is to A. to show that Im not tunnelvisioned and am aware of the other wagons and suspicions, B. so that I personally dont get tunnelvisioned and C. to make my suspicions known and to act upon them later (I need to go buy christmas pressies.

Scummiest to towniest

Scum
1. AGOTI, I am quite sure she is scum. She fails to answer a case against her and whilst she has made 1 or 2 ok points, in general she fails to make a town impression ever.

Neutral leaning scum
2. Snow Bunny, I dont have anything on her that I can remember which is worrying considering this is my number 1 game.

Note to self: I need to iso her

3. Poptajo, I notice he has been away for valid reasons. It makes me smile a bit due to the problems hes had with me before. I dont necasserily have a problem with him but again he hasnt done overtly much.

Neutral
4. Rofl, I dislike how he attacked me day 2 especially with no reasons and in particularly now that Ray is scum. He also has a lot of stuff to answer for and hasnt been here yet to answer anything

5. crypto, I should point out recently I have no problem with him. However I felt he was very "free-fire" (cant remember the word), I also dislike the way he decides he hates his AGOTI case as hes posting it. In that case you dont post it. However hes moving into the town section, the scum label is very marginal.

Neutral leaning Town
6.Snow White - Snow White is neutral, she has had some iffy moments and has kept in the background for ages. Two long analysis posts dont make up for being actively in the game. However her last post left me with warm feelings inside. She needs to keep active now or risk sliding down my scale fast.

7. Elvis Knits, has made good posts, if I had a critisism I dont know if she has been as out there as some of the other players but thats also negligible and I dont really have any problem with her.

Town
8. MBF, town. Its already been said. I dont have/remember any problems I have had with MBF.

Posted this one before excpet I updated it slightly in regards to the list not the comments. Check any of my other posts for backup on AGOTI, particularly the one where I make a bulletpointed list of the case on her. That she still hasnt responded to. Please note, I dont think Snow White should be lynched either at this moment but it would be a better lynch than MBF.

[Porochaz]

prozac, why is what i have said about mbf's actions re: cop not applicable? why are the four other players scummier than he is? you are making statements without any sort of backup.

I wanted to quote your post as well, its not applicable because in essence he's right, to say that elvis's claim clears any of you is wrong. There is other reasons that could make any one of the three of you scum. Neither he or I think any of you should be the lynch today as we both want more information. As it has something related to this game, http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13014

You are pushing someone who led the Ray wagon almost single handedly. Its a major bus if he is scum, one I think which would be too high a risk.

[mikeburnfire]

ROFL, I think a lot of your "MBF and POROCHAZ are scum!" comes from OMGUS, so calm down. I think you're town. For you to be scum, your scumpartner would have to be Crypto (unlikely) or Elvis (which would make Elvis the ballsiest scum ever). I don't plan on lynching you today.

But, in all seriousness, it's perfectly normal to be skeptical of a sudden cop claim. Get pissy if you want, but I'm not going to stop hunting.

you have stopped hunting though, because everything you've done since the claim has been devoted to undermining the claim in some way, not scum hunting.

No. You got upset because I placed Porochaz higher than Elvis on my list. Then when I explained that Porochaz's pro-town play was a better indicator of town than Elvis's cop claim, you went batshit crazy and accused me of attempting to discredit the cop claim, which I hadn't. I'd simply pointed out that just because somebody claimed to be the cop does not make them a cop. I don't know if you know this, but

scum can pretend

.

Frankly, I believed Elvis's claim whens she made it, but whenever I go back over her posts I find stuff that makes me uneasy.

But I have really screwed over the scum at this point, because they probably can't kill me. I will get doc protection if there is a doc, and if there isn't a doc, they won't know it. They have to expect there is a doc and avoid killing me.
[]
And if I'm sane, they can't NK either of my innocents without proving my sanity for me. AH-HA!

^ This could be scumElvis saying "I'm going to totally be alive tomorrow and Crypto/ROFL is going to be the dead townie that solidifies my claim.

Am I saying we should lynch Elvis? Hell no. If she's telling the truth then the scum want her dead way more than I do. Am I saying she's a liar? Maybe. If we both get to LyLo and still haven't found anymore scum then I will seriously consider a scum-Elvis. Then I will put on some rubber boots because we'll be ankle-deep in WIFOM shit.

But hopefully it won't come to that. Can we get back to actually playing the game now?

scum would never get so bugged about people callin them town.

Really?

That's

what makes you think Snow White's town? Because stuff like that is easily fabricated.

Thanks for stopping by, making a terrible post, OMGUS voting, and leaving just as quickly as you came. I'll forgive it because it's Christmas, but next time let's see some actual content.

[elvis_knits]

Oh, whoops, I forgot! When a cop claims, everybody has to drop everything and play follow-the-cop! We shouldn't be trying to scumhunt! We should just be lynching people at random and letting Elvis guide the entire town. Because there is

NO

way that cop claim could be a lie!

But, in all seriousness, it's perfectly normal to be skeptical of a sudden cop claim. Get pissy if you want, but I'm not going to stop hunting.

I never told you to stop scum hunting. I said it's stupid for you to start suspecting me of being scum BECAUSE I claimed cop, when that would be an absolutely stupid play for scum to make.

Now, I'm not even considering a Naive cop at this point. And the likelihood of Elvis being an insane cop who hit both the remaining scum in a row isn't likely either. I'll have to go back and see if there's a crypto-rolf connection, but I can't recall any off the top of my head.The two most likely possibilities are either (A) Elvis is legit sane cop, and ROLF and Crypto are town or (B) Elvis is a liar scum who is pretending to be cop. In the second scenario, if ROLF is scum, then Elvis is most likely scum too, but if Elvis is scum then that does not necessarily mean that ROLF is scum too.

I think A is more likely, which is why I claimed! duh.

I know B is not possible since I am not scum. But I already said that I am slightly afraid of [(C)I am insane and crypto and rofl are both scum and went into mega-buss-and-sacrifice mode today] So I think we should keep possibility (C) in mind for the future. And if we lynch one and they flip scum, we lynch the other, and then if you must, you can lynch me. If my sanity make me look scummy, I don't mind dying at all, as long as I have helped take down some scum on the way out. I have said from the beginning that if lynching me helps the town in some way like to prove my results, I am on board.

I think it's sort of stupid/scummy though for mbf to say "if we lynch rofl and he flips scum, we lynch elvis next." I think we would lynch crypto next, since rofl-scum would mean I am insane (or scum). But wouldn't you want to lynch the non-cop option first? Also, presumably I will have more actions by then to help us sort this out.

If the mafia knew they had a GF, and expected a cop in the game, it would not make sense for any of the mafia to claim cop since they know they'll get counterclaimed.

... but if the mafia somehow realized that a cop didn't exist, then claiming cop is the perfect opportunity to dominate the game.

...and how would the mafia be sure there was no cop?? That makes no sense.

I have not suggested that we lynch any of the elvis-rolf-crypto trio today. That's just stupid. But that doesn't mean I have to instantly believe that you're all town, either. That's pure naivete.

I don't expect you to instantly believe we're town, but a number of things you have brought up here are scummy. Suggesting scum fake claiming cop out of nowhere is at all likely in a game which is expected to have a cop. Suggesting scum would somehow be sure enough there isn't a cop to pull a dumb gambit. Saying "if rofl flips scum, lynch the cop," and ignoring the fact I could be insane. Nevermind you're drunk on WIFOM, saying "I could see a scumElvis saying "x.""

The best course of action is, in my opinion, to lynch somebody who has played poorly (IE AGOTI, snow bunny, tajo) and see what happens during the night. If elvis dies, then we see his sanity. Sane? Clears rolf and crypto. Insane? kill rolf and crypto. If either crypto or rolf dies, then elvis will have another investigation result to give us, and if it's a guilty then we kill 'em. If it's another innocent result then I might have to go after Elvis instead.

I asked the mod if my sanity will be revealed upon death. I know the answer, but not sure I should say it. I'd rather leave the scum guessing.

But actually, this course of action is probably good. If this is your course of action, why were you piling on all those crap attacks on me?

[mikeburnfire]

I never told you to stop scum hunting. I said it's stupid for you to start suspecting me of being scum BECAUSE I claimed cop, when that would be an absolutely stupid play for scum to make.

Actually, that part was directed at ROFL, who seemed appalled that I wouldn't instantly drop everything and believe you.

I think it's sort of stupid/scummy though for mbf to say "if we lynch rofl and he flips scum, we lynch elvis next." I think we would lynch crypto next, since rofl-scum would mean I am insane (or scum).

Whoa, hold on there! This is what I said:

If either crypto or rolf dies, then elvis will have another investigation result to give us, and if it's a guilty then we kill 'em. If it's another innocent result then I might have to go after Elvis instead.

I have not suggested we lynch crypto or rofl. I suggested that if we get to tomorrow and there has been no progress (two dead townies, no guilty result), then I'm going to dig deeper at you. My biggest worry with regards to you is getting to LyLo phase.

...and how would the mafia be sure there was no cop?? That makes no sense.

Are you playing stupid? Here's what you said: "

but I have not gotten the impression that there are multiple people crumbing results like I have. So if I'm the only cop (which lack of crumbs from other people suggest), I'd say I'm either sane or insane, which make my results useful.

" If you are scum who has been looking for breadcrumbing and have not found any, but you know we're all expecting a cop, then claiming cop is the PERFECT scum opportunity.

Suggesting scum fake claiming cop out of nowhere is at all likely in a game which is expected to have a cop.

'Expected to have' are the key words here.

Saying "if rofl flips scum, lynch the cop,"

Haven't said that.

and ignoring the fact I could be insane.

I didn't ignore it. I specifically stated that it was unlikely.

Nevermind you're drunk on WIFOM, saying "I could see a scumElvis saying "x."

Please stop calling it WIFOM. WIFOM is what I'm trying to avoid. All I'm saying is that the quotes you made can be said by copElvis or scumElvis. I can see both possibilities.

If this is your course of action, why were you piling on all those crap attacks on me?

It's incredibly possible for you to be a lying scum. Whenever I point this out it seems like you and ROFL get mad. Whassamatter? Worried that I don't see through your ruse? You can relax. Like I said, we have better things to do today than lynch a claimed cop. Like, lynch a lurker. Maybe if we say his name three times he'll appear. He's like a genie that way.

[Porochaz]

MBF why did you unvote AGOTI?

[crypto]

None of this changes the fact that Snow_Bunny is scum (and a lurker).

[Snow White]

^Glad you didnt say Snow Twins.

Anyway. Apart from pointless flame wars im not sure where this is going. So im going out. And tomorrow, or the day after imma reread this and see what sense i can make from it.

[Snow White]

*if any.

[elvis_knits]

I never told you to stop scum hunting. I said it's stupid for you to start suspecting me of being scum BECAUSE I claimed cop, when that would be an absolutely stupid play for scum to make.

Actually, that part was directed at ROFL, who seemed appalled that I wouldn't instantly drop everything and believe you.

You seem much more suspicious of me after I claimed cop that before. Which doesn't make sense. If someone who you are not actively persuing as scum claims cop when not under pressure, you don't automatically start thinking they could be scum.

I think it's sort of stupid/scummy though for mbf to say "if we lynch rofl and he flips scum, we lynch elvis next." I think we would lynch crypto next, since rofl-scum would mean I am insane (or scum).

Whoa, hold on there! This is what I said:

If either crypto or rolf dies, then elvis will have another investigation result to give us, and if it's a guilty then we kill 'em. If it's another innocent result then I might have to go after Elvis instead.

I have not suggested we lynch crypto or rofl. I suggested that if we get to tomorrow and there has been no progress (two dead townies, no guilty result), then I'm going to dig deeper at you. My biggest worry with regards to you is getting to LyLo phase.

Why would another innocent result make you want to lynch me?

Why are you so worried about me now that I have claimed cop? Before I claimed cop, I don't think I was a big worry for you. We had a little tiff D1, but we haven't really been at each other since then. I don't think you were particularly interested in me.

My thinking is that my claim should not make me MORE suspicious to you. Fake claiming cop when not under suspicion does not make sense. You should either feel the same about me or better, but not worse.

...and how would the mafia be sure there was no cop?? That makes no sense.

Are you playing stupid? Here's what you said: "

but I have not gotten the impression that there are multiple people crumbing results like I have. So if I'm the only cop (which lack of crumbs from other people suggest), I'd say I'm either sane or insane, which make my results useful.

" If you are scum who has been looking for breadcrumbing and have not found any, but you know we're all expecting a cop, then claiming cop is the PERFECT scum opportunity.

That is STOOPID.

Have you ever seen that situation happen? Becuase I sure haven't.

You aren't even taking into account that I made breadcrumbs early D2 and D3. So I would have had to plan this really risky gambit before even knowing if other people were crumbing or not. I would have had to put this plan into effect and made my own crumbs BEFORE I was sure that nobody else was crumbing. So I would have had to do it blind.

Suggesting scum fake claiming cop out of nowhere is at all likely in a game which is expected to have a cop.

'Expected to have' are the key words here.

Your point?

Saying "if rofl flips scum, lynch the cop,"

Haven't said that.

(B) Elvis is a liar scum who is pretending to be cop. In the second scenario, if ROLF is scum, then Elvis is most likely scum too, but if Elvis is scum then that does not necessarily mean that ROLF is scum too.

and ignoring the fact I could be insane.

I didn't ignore it. I specifically stated that it was unlikely.

Because then I would have hit scum twice in a row?

I fail to see how that is more unlikely than all the shit scenarios you're coming up with.

Nevermind you're drunk on WIFOM, saying "I could see a scumElvis saying "x."

Please stop calling it WIFOM. WIFOM is what I'm trying to avoid. All I'm saying is that the quotes you made can be said by copElvis or scumElvis. I can see both possibilities.

No, you're saying that you can see scumElvis saying [whatever]. You're not saying you could see it either way. You're arguing for one choice over the other when you have no way of knowing which it is.

If this is your course of action, why were you piling on all those crap attacks on me?

It's incredibly possible for you to be a lying scum. Whenever I point this out it seems like you and ROFL get mad. Whassamatter? Worried that I don't see through your ruse? You can relax. Like I said, we have better things to do today than lynch a claimed cop. Like, lynch a lurker. Maybe if we say his name three times he'll appear. He's like a genie that way.

The problem is that it seems like you're laying the groundwork to discredit me and lynch me. While totally ignoring that it makes no sense for a scum to do what I have done. You're coming up with bad long-shot scenarios that don't even make sense to try to find a way that I might be scum. I would be okay with this level of suspicion if I had claimed under pressure, or if you had seemed more suspicious of me before. But I wasn't that important to you before claiming cop, and now you're coming up with really shaky, bad reasoning to try to throw doubt on me.

[elvis_knits]

MBF why did you unvote AGOTI?

Because he was hoping to swing the lynch back onto me because that is scum's best shot to win right now. Look at the post he unvotes AGOTI. He's starting to really push his elvis-scum idea.

I would like to here A. why elvis thinks she isnt naive and B. what myko said to her about sanity reveal?

She thinks she isn't naive because there's no other cop. And if it's true that she's the only cop, she's likely sane.

I have not gotten the impression that there are multiple people crumbing results like I have. So if I'm the only cop (which lack of crumbs from other people suggest), I'd say I'm either sane or insane, which make my results useful.

Actually, that quote's a bit of a double-edged sword. I can easily see this coming from a scum-Elvis. "Yeah, I've been looking for cop breadcrumbing, but haven't found any. That's why I decided to fake-claim it". Afterall, if the mafia had a Godfather from the start, then it makes sense that they'd be looking hard for a cop.

I think I'm going to have to bump Elvis below Crypto and ROLF now. Because an Elvis-ROLF scumgroup is starting to look much more possible than I initially thought.

unvote

[roflcopter]

(pssst... vote for mbf)

[Porochaz]

(pssst... vote for mbf)

Why are you against the AGOTI lynch?

[roflcopter]

(pssst... vote for mbf)

Why are you against the AGOTI lynch?

because you and mbf are scum, and i don't think there are more than two scum left, so by process of elimination everyone else is town and i am against lynching town?

duh.

[Porochaz]

However your case is crap.

[roflcopter]

However your case is crap.

given that you're scum with mbf and he's your last remaining partner, you would be inclined to say that. you haven't given any reasons to believe it though, which in itself is telling.

why is discrediting the claimed cop plus two innocents (three people the scum suddenly aren't going to be able to lynch ever if the town believes the cop) NOT something that is astronomically more likely to come from scum than from town?

[Porochaz]

I dont get why claiming cop is an auto free pass along with the players who are then confirmed innocent. Remember we're saying claimed cop, not confirmed cop. I definitely dont want to lynch elvis but I need something more to make me believe she is confirmed. Which I believe is what MBF is saying and what you and elvis are exaggurating. Which is my problem, that, the fact you are ignoring AGOTI's clear scumminess which is exacerbated by her refusing to answer the case and your general behavour throughout the game. So yes, I want to think elvis is town, as she says neither of us have had a problem with her before, I want to believe she is a cop but the reason why I have doubt on her is you! I am having such a hard time believing your town for the reasons stated above. You have failed to make any real post which would make me go "hmm that has town vibes coming from it" so in regards to my doubts that is why.

Now why do I believe the mbf wagon is stupid. Well beyond my always building AGOTI case and the initial support today (hence the question about his unvote) and the fact he lead singlehandedly the case against Ray makes me think he is town. Especially when the rest of town excluding, the cop/innocents. Make him look like Townie of the Year (TM).

So in short, I dont believe a lynch of you, crypto, mbf or elvis is a good idea at the moment, not until we have more information. I think AGOTI should be the lynch, obviously, but I would listen to a case on any of the others.

[crypto]

*yawn* Snow_Bunny.

[roflcopter]

crypto what do you think of mbf and prozac?

[Porochaz]

Rofl could you comment on post 766 for me? Thanks.

[Snow_Bunny]

Sorry for not posting. Bad connection + holidays = few posts.

Ok, I'm going to go with the cop claim as of now. I'm not ruling out sanity issues, but as Elvis stated, another night would give more results.

@Crypto: What are your thoughts on AGOTI as of now?

I'm still 100% on for a AGOTI lynch.

Mbf vs Elvis seems like town vs town. Not trusting a claimed cop at once in a game like this is not bad, just a some paranoid.

[mikeburnfire]

MBF why did you unvote AGOTI?

Because I didn't like the conversation that was happening with ROFL.

You seem much more suspicious of me after I claimed cop that before

After your claim you went up on my most-townie list, right after myself and Porochaz. It wasn't until ROFL started acting infallible that I started to get negative vibes.

Let's see if I can nail the coffin shut on this bullshit case against me.

The odds of Elvis being a cop as she claims are around 90%; sane cop around ~85%. I think she can give us good results. I want to keep her alive. However, I do not like the way ROFL and Elvis treat themselves as 100% confirmed town. Whenever I remind them that they are not confirmed town, they get upset and insist that they are perfect and state that only scum would dare to question them. This pisses me off so I illustrate various scenarios in which they could be scum. This goes on for awhile until it looks like the only thing I'm interested in is discrediting the cop claim.

Now, maybe I haven't made the best scenarios in which Elvis could be scum. fine, whatever. The main point I was trying to make is that neither Elvis nor ROFL is 100% pure confirmed town. That's it. And until I see some new information that proves otherwise they will remain on my suspect list, along with everyone else.

There, I think I've explained myself entirely. The only ones who are really accusing me of any of this are ROFL and Elvis, and if this post doesn't satisfy them then I give up. They can keep going after me if they want, but my time's more important than this.

[mykonian]

vote count

A girl on the internet (2): Porochaz, Snow_Bunny
roflcopter (1): populartajo
Populartajo (1): elvis_knits
Snow Bunny (1): crypto
Mikeburnfire (1): Roflcopter
Porochaz (1): a girl on the internet

Not voting (2): Snow White, mikeburnfire.

with 9 players, it is 5 to lynch

[crypto]

Unfortunately, mike, that's just how roflcopter plays.

Snow_Bunny, she isn't as scummy as you are.

Roflcopter, they aren't as scummy as SB is. But I'll have to do a reread at some point to sort out their convo with you and EK.

[roflcopter]

Roflcopter, they aren't as scummy as SB is. But I'll have to do a reread at some point to sort out their convo with you and EK.

you should do that as soon as possible, since we really need to be lynching one of them today.