Flash Mafia: You won!

[mikeburnfire]

Prochaz? You mean Pome right?

Misread his vote. Anyway, I haven't picked up on any Pomescum behavior in the game yet. I'm curious as to your reasons you suspect him.

Does cryptos case include mine and elvis's points?

Maybe. I know the AGOTI lynch has been brought up before and I don't ever think I agreed with the logic behind it.

[SpyreX]

It starts by you over reacting then it goes into semantics and what appears to be a circle between you and MBF. I see nothing productive in it and I dont particularly get it and would rather focus on AGOTI and cryptos fascination with the language aspect which to me is a null tell. It helps me work out who the alt most likely is. But a null tell non the less.

Then I'll try without the wall:

MBF will not take a stance on Mufasa's alignment while simultaneously calling out the wagon. Further, he insinuated to RF that "all the scum were already on the wagon" which should be an implication that Mufasa is town yet...

MBF unnecessarily asked for role information from Mufasa that makes absolutely no sense to ask for if town.

MBF has had some amazing doublespeak in regards to the vote on RF in regards to scumhunting.

There, nice and simple, no semantics. Like I said the handholding was done, the lynching time starts.

[RayFrost]

Sweet.

Now, I'm gonna be THAT GUY again and say I'm not seein the AGOTI business either.

So, before we start holding hands, thoughts on:

1.) Poro coming in and stating something about the modcount without saying anything with the last few pages?
2.) Pom's last post.
3.) MBF

Prozac seems like not-getting-stuck-in-this-scum. NGSITS. He avoids the sticky situations

I gotta check Pom's last post for that.

I still think MBF is town, but I think he's tunnel vision town. Which is bad for town, but still town.

[Porochaz]

SpyreX, I read your initial case. So that post really doesnt change things and just to go into this a tiny slight bit... if Mufasa claims jester then I think MBF is entitled to ask for role info.
As for your last point, you quoted it somewhere, as this is a morning before uni and Ive just pulled an allnighter and still have heaps of work to do post, im not going to look it up right now but I remember not seeing much of a point here.

Again your case on MBF is weak at best. AGOTI is a far more interesting prospect just now and Ray does need to be lynched quite soon. 2 candidates who have a lot better cases on them than your MBF one. As with you and AGOTI, I just dont see your MBF case, sorry.

[mykonian]

Vote count

A girl on the internet(3): Crypto, Elvis_knits, Porochaz
Snow_bunny(2): Roflcopter, Rayfrost
Rayfrost(1): Green Crayons
Porochaz(1): A girl on the internet
Mikeburnfire(1): Spyrex
Pomegranate(1): Populartajo

Not voting (4): Snow_Bunny, Snow white, Mikeburnfire, Pomegranate.

with 13 players, it is 7 to lynch

[elvis_knits]

My feeling is that crypto is scum (he sounds so much less obnoxious than usual, his responses are filled with excuses, and his reasons are not very compelling).

I also think MBF might be scum. I won't go into specifics of the exchange with spyrex, since I didn't read it that closely yet. But I think the way this all started between them is that spyrex said he had a bad feeling about mbf. Then mbf said he had a bad feeling about spyrex. Seemed like mbf's bad feeling was only a reaction to spyrex, before he even heard the reasons from spyrex.

AGOTI still scummy, especially after not answering my post though. All she did was respond to crypto. But since I think crypto is scum, makes me doubt my AGOTI feelings a little.

I don't have a problem with prozac though. Him not commenting on spyrex/mbf is a little weird, but sometimes people don't pay attention to flame wars. I dunno.

unvote AGOTI; vote crypto

[mikeburnfire]

MBF will not take a stance on Mufasa's alignment while simultaneously calling out the wagon

Yep. That's because the wagon was terrible.

Further, he insinuated to RF that "all the scum were already on the wagon" which should be an implication that Mufasa is town yet...

Liar. We already went over this. I'm not implying that Mufasa is town, just trying to get a reaction from RF.

MBF unnecessarily asked for role information from Mufasa that makes absolutely no sense to ask for if town.

It would only be a real point if Mufasa had said he was serious. He didn't.

I also think MBF might be scum. I won't go into specifics of the exchange with spyrex, since I didn't read it that closely yet. But I think the way this all started between them is that spyrex said he had a bad feeling about mbf. Then mbf said he had a bad feeling about spyrex. Seemed like mbf's bad feeling was only a reaction to spyrex, before he even heard the reasons from spyrex.

The way you describe it makes it sound like I'm OMGUS reacting.

[elvis_knits]

I'm starting to get a nasty twitch about MBF (especially his RayFrost chug-a-lug).

However its the weekend so I'm not going to try and pin it down - that whole l-2 versus l-1 debate and the sweeping "all the scum are on the wagon" seems like hyper-aggressive posturing.

I'm a bit concerned about Spyrex right now. He's has done almost zero not-Mufasa related talking so far, and he has commented little on RayFrost. Well, except his most recent post where he reacted to a comment I directed at RF. That's a bit suspicious too, because I was actually trying to get under RF's skin, and Spyrex accuses me of "hyper-agressive posturing" instead of waiting to see RF's reaction.

[crypto]

Now, I'm gonna be THAT GUY again and say I'm not seein the AGOTI business either.

To be honest, I lost more and more interest in my AGOTI case as I compiled it. It makes some valuable points, but overall I'm rather indifferent toward most of my own case. (I was sort of loath to admit this because I wanted to see how AGOTI replied and because, frankly, I was ticked off about it.) My gut feeling is still there about AGOTI, though – not the "I just know something's wrong about this person" feeling, but the "I don't like how this person's playing overall, even if I can't entirely put my finger on it" feeling.

Oh, and I stumbled across this while rereading: I don't know if I said it before (I know others did) but AGOTI did a really bad OMGUS of Poro. It's incredibly lame to the point where I don't even know why scum – especially experienced scum, assuming AGOTI is an alt of a vet player – would try it.

Preview edit: And I see mikeburnfire agrees that my case for AGOTI sucked. Pretty fair criticism.

So, before we start holding hands, thoughts on:

1.) Poro coming in and stating something about the modcount without saying anything with the last few pages?
2.) Pom's last post.
3.) MBF

I don't know if you're asking me, but … these are good questions, so whatever.

Bold is mine.

Heh, that makes me giggle. I was originally going to stick my answers into the quote, but I've decided my response to (1) is too significant to risk hiding from skim readers like that.

1.

Poro's play style seems to give him a free pass here. As far as I can tell, it's standard for him not to comment on a whole page, but then pop in and make a post that reads like he wasn't thinking we'd be surprised by its abruptness. Dunno. It's also understandable because he'd just hopped on the AGOTI wagon, which means he was confined to a waiting game until AGOTI's response, which in turn means he might not have cared to comment on anything else. TLDR: null tell. That said, IGMEOPoro for some time now. I

could

be seeing shadows here, but his posts look way too self-conscious for my liking. (Examples: hyper-focusing on why he votes for AGOTI instead of Rayexplanation for delayed AGOTI.) I also don't like how Poro put Ray at L–1 (not good enough? – big deal, it's like five pages into the game). And still not at all a fan of his roflcopter suspicion/non-suspicion business.

2.

I don't take issue with it. I found her treatment of me, and then her treatment of me with you in mind, legitimate.

3.

Still toying with the notion that he was scum playing Supertown with his "Guys we're wagoning Ray way too fast!" deal, but it's reverse-reverse psychology so I'm not ready to make a call there. Otherwise, I'm ambivalent.

crypto, what exactly changed between your mbf vote and your unvote?

Fair point, I guess, but for the most part I've either provided or implied some degree of reasoning. I was straightforward with my Snow_Bunny vote. You seem to be intentionally obscure, bordering on cloak-and-dagger, whereas I'm just leaving out reasons until someone finally asks for them.

crypto, what exactly changed between your mbf vote and your unvote?

MBF was scummy but there wasn't enough to go on, and there were juicier targets IIRC.

I dont like the quick vote after rolf and elvis pressure. It seems like Pome is blindly trusting them.

Townies blindly follow roflcopter all the time, as I've recently witnessed firsthand. It's epically annoying, but it's true. For what it's worth.

My feeling is that crypto is scum (he sounds so much less obnoxious than usual, his responses are filled with excuses, and his reasons are not very compelling).

Wow … again, you can do a meta of me and you'll see both of my other games JUST went into night, and the third JUST ended with a mislynch. As for obnoxious, mood is not a scum tell. I tend not to go into auto-asshole mode at the beginning of a game unless I've already been ticked off in another game. I tend to start out neutral, and then get pissier and pissier as the game goes on. By the way, what excuses have I made other than that one?

And yes, I concede again that I'm not even a fan of my AGOTI case, but she's still scummy as hell, and I do think some of my points had/have merit.

Now, I'm gonna be THAT GUY again and say I'm not seein the AGOTI business either.

To be honest, I lost more and more interest in my AGOTI case as I compiled it. It makes some valuable points, but overall I'm rather indifferent toward most of my own case. (I was sort of loath to admit this because I wanted to see how AGOTI replied and because, frankly, I was ticked off about it.) My gut feeling is still there about AGOTI, though – not the "I just know something's wrong about this person" feeling, but the "I don't like how this person's playing overall, even if I can't entirely put my finger on it" feeling.

Oh, and I stumbled across this while rereading: I don't know if I said it before (I know others did) but AGOTI did a really bad OMGUS of Poro. It's incredibly lame to the point where I don't even know why scum – especially experienced scum, assuming AGOTI is an alt of a vet player – would try it.

Preview edit: And I see mikeburnfire agrees that my case for AGOTI sucked. Pretty fair criticism.

So, before we start holding hands, thoughts on:

1.) Poro coming in and stating something about the modcount without saying anything with the last few pages?
2.) Pom's last post.
3.) MBF

I don't know if you're asking me, but … these are good questions, so whatever.

Bold is mine.

Heh, that makes me giggle. I was originally going to stick my answers into the quote, but I've decided my response to (1) is too significant to risk hiding from skim readers like that.

1.

Poro's play style seems to give him a free pass here. As far as I can tell, it's standard for him not to comment on a whole page, but then pop in and make a post that reads like he wasn't thinking we'd be surprised by its abruptness. Dunno. It's also understandable because he'd just hopped on the AGOTI wagon, which means he was confined to a waiting game until AGOTI's response, which in turn means he might not have cared to comment on anything else. TLDR: null tell. That said, IGMEOPoro for some time now. I

could

be seeing shadows here, but his posts look way too self-conscious for my liking. (Examples: hyper-focusing on why he votes for AGOTI instead of Rayexplanation for delayed AGOTI.) I also don't like how Poro put Ray at L–1 (not good enough? – big deal, it's like five pages into the game). And still not at all a fan of his roflcopter suspicion/non-suspicion business.

2.

I don't take issue with it. I found her treatment of me, and then her treatment of me with you in mind, legitimate.

3.

Still toying with the notion that he was scum playing Supertown with his "Guys we're wagoning Ray way too fast!" deal, but it's reverse-reverse psychology so I'm not ready to make a call there. Otherwise, I'm ambivalent.

crypto, what exactly changed between your mbf vote and your unvote?

Fair point, I guess, but for the most part I've either provided or implied some degree of reasoning. I was straightforward with my Snow_Bunny vote. You seem to be intentionally obscure, bordering on cloak-and-dagger, whereas I'm just leaving out reasons until someone finally asks for them.

crypto, what exactly changed between your mbf vote and your unvote?

MBF was scummy but there wasn't enough to go on, and there were juicier targets IIRC.

I dont like the quick vote after rolf and elvis pressure. It seems like Pome is blindly trusting them.

Townies blindly follow roflcopter all the time, as I've recently witnessed firsthand. It's epically annoying, but it's true. For what it's worth.

My feeling is that crypto is scum (he sounds so much less obnoxious than usual, his responses are filled with excuses, and his reasons are not very compelling).

Wow … again, you can do a meta of me and you'll see both of my other games JUST went into night, and the third JUST ended with a mislynch. As for obnoxious, mood is not a scum tell. I tend not to go into auto-asshole mode at the beginning of a game unless I've already been ticked off in another game. I tend to start out neutral, and then get pissier and pissier as the game goes on. By the way, what excuses have I made other than that one?

And yes, I concede again that I'm not even a fan of my AGOTI case, but she's still scummy as hell, and I do think some of my points had/have merit.

---

I should be able to post some nonresponse stuff later when I get home.
Short on time now.

[elvis_knits]

Excuses:

Because my two other games have been in someone's-gonna-die mode, because I had limited access during Thanksgiving vaca, because most of my suspicion was (and still is) a gut read, because I hadn't noticed some of the things that I noticed when you prompted me to reread and make a case, because I've become a fan of voting/pressuring before revealing most or all of my underlying reasons (though there weren't initially many concrete reasons in this case), and because I'm a little lazy.

I need to see you with your hair on fire nailing scum to the wall by their balls or else I don't trust you.

You don't need to be an asshole actually, but I expect you to be a little better at calling out scummy actions. More pro-active.

You read to me like you're not trying to find scum. So it's not so much that you need to be a jerk about it, but that I don't see you trying to scum hunt. Not like I have seen you before.

[Snow_Bunny]

@Tajo: Well, he's currently in neutral. Though, there's also the possibility of third party with its own selfish interests.

what makes you think he could be third party?

That there are plenty third party roles in the flash thingy?

@Tajo: What's you don't like about me?

I am not liking AGOTI at all. Not stating reasons at all, vote-jumping, and overall bad posts don't help her. I'd be happy to lynch her over Ray.

vote: AGOTI

Btw, is funny how suddenly all pressure on Ray disappeared.

[crypto]

Like I said, that's one excuse. One excuse is not even fucking close to "his responses are filled with excuses." Between Thanksgiving, a Statistics project, applying to colleges, and, hell, eight hours per day of school itself, I'm not going to be pumping out content at my usual rate. That point is bullshit.

Your comparison of my scum hunting this game with my scum hunting in another game is fundamentally invalid. In that game I started reading and posting after ten pages of content had been generated. I had plenty to go off and as a result I was instantly able to crank out walls-of-text that laid out my suspicions. That's impossible to do in this game because I've observed and participated from the outset. There's no catchup involved. My content, just like any other player's, will be much more spread out in this situation; there won't be an immediate explosion of information.

All that aside, attacking me because I'm not being aggressive is also bullshit. I'm not going to fly off the handle in every post in every game. So far I have called out AGOTI, Snow_Bunny, mikeburnfire, Porochaz, and RayFrost. Back the hell off or start supporting your accusations with so much as an

inkling

of truth.

/jerk

[elvis_knits]

Aw, there's the crypto we know and love.

Good first step!

Keep going...

[SpyreX]

Crypto what in the hell did you DO in your post? Thats truly amazing.

SpyreX, I read your initial case. So that post really doesnt change things and just to go into this a tiny slight bit... if Mufasa claims jester then I think MBF is entitled to ask for role info.
As for your last point, you quoted it somewhere, as this is a morning before uni and Ive just pulled an allnighter and still have heaps of work to do post, im not going to look it up right now but I remember not seeing much of a point here.

Except for the fact Mufasa didn't claim jester. And MBF blew up at the wagon and THEN asked for information about his role.

[crypto]

Hey, I managed to double-post half my wall-of-text without making two separate posts.

Crypto what in the hell did you DO in your post? Thats truly amazing.

What do you mean?

If you're accusing me of too much fluff, I'm going to flame you, because I said I would post some stuff once I got home (and I am now home, and this post is me twiddling my thumbs before I reread the thread).

[SpyreX]

Hey, I managed to double-post half my wall-of-text without making two separate posts.

^

That. I was reading it and got a weird sense of deja vu about half way through.

[crypto]

Oh.

[crypto]

Btw, is funny how suddenly all pressure on Ray disappeared.

What do you mean? Why don't you like this?

[Snow_Bunny]

Because I liked the Ray wagon?

[crypto]

Why did you like the Ray wagon?

Why did you want to lynch Ray after his vanilla townie claim?

[Green Crayons]

Ok so having read over, Ray is looking pretty bad, will wait for his response to GC before I act upon it though, rofl isnt looking so bad anymore, shifting him into the "neutral" zone (heaven forbid) So currently its a toss up between AGOTI and Ray... and Im waiting for Rays response so

vote AGOTI

Poro, what exactly were your reasons for your girl vote in this post?

[Green Crayons]

Double posting.

Why did you want to lynch Ray after his vanilla townie claim?

Here's a valid reason: Because a vanilla townie claim isn't a get-out-of-a-lynch-for-free card. Mafia have been known to claim everything - up to and including vanilla townie. Your caveat of asking why someone would want to lynch Ray after the vanilla claim artificially inflates that claim as a cause to ignore the whole slew of issues found with Ray's play. No claim in the world is an excuse as to Ray's initial suspicious behavior. Even more staggering is the notion that somehow you're suggesting that his claim excuses his reaction to his scummy behavior being pointed out: You know, his outright side-stepping of the points brought against him, his shifting of his positions in order to paint himself in a better light, his strawman tactics to avoid the real issues and - when you finally get some sort of answer out of him - his horrifically bad excuses.

Ray's play has been scummy through and through. I also think it's interesting that plenty of people have said that there has been a good case made against Ray, and in light of his refusal to answer the points made against him the town is rewarding his behavior by taking the pressure off of him.

[crypto]

Why

[crypto]

did you

[crypto]

just