Open 118 - Follow The Cop ... Or Not (Game Over) before 748

[Empking]

/confirm

[Empking]

/confirm

[Empking]

Vote: ZEEonn

- You neco-poster.

[Empking]

That's no reason to vote.

FoS Slicey

That's a joke, right?

[Empking]

There's no clear "This is the RV stage" "This isn't the RV stage" is decided on whether the FoS's are serious or not.

[Empking]

Normally, I don't people acting "wierd" because of a bandwagon on them but SK is acting in a very pro-town way.

[Empking]

What are your thoughts on recent posts by ac and myself?

Well, first, I agree with you regarding that townies want the RVS to end as soon as possible to have more time for serious discussion. However, the RVS is important, as it lets us start with the game properly, and rushing it when we have not yet something to start with is not good, imo.

Let me get this straight; you mean that Empking was trying to rush the rvs by asking Kmd if his FoS was serious?

To put it simple, yes.

.

Would it be better if I continued to think that it was serious?

[Empking]

Why do people unvote because they're leaving the RVS.

[Empking]

ZEEonn: Wht was your reason to unvote other than the end of the RVS.

[Empking]

Leaving a vote on someone that you don't want lynched, isn't always dumb. Duh.

Actually yes, it is. I can't say

always

since it is possible they may be scum, but for the most part if you don't want them lynched and they get lynched, all of your motives will be in question .

Umm, because it's dumb to leave a random vote on someone who you don't want lynched? Duh.

Was afat in danger of being lynched? Would you have blamed ZEEnon if afat WAS lynched?

If I was another player and I saw 'ZEEnon' not take off his random vote and perhaps the amount of votes needed for a lynch accumulated, I would definitely be on him. I have seen scum be the first person to vote someone, with the other scum following at the end of the bandwagon.

ZEEonn: Wht was your reason to unvote other than the end of the RVS.

That was the only reason. I clearly stated that in my post, so you should have been able to read it.

That was your only reason?

Its such a dum reason I can only presume you're lying.

Unvote
Vote: ZEEonn

[Empking]

Umm, because it's dumb to leave a random vote on someone who you don't want lynched? Duh.

Was afat in danger of being lynched? Would you have blamed ZEEnon if afat WAS lynched?

No and no, but what is a possible good reason of keeping a vote from the rvs on someone? Keeping a random vote on someone is just silly...

I usually leave my random vote until I have a real reason to vote. I vote for real pretty quickly though.

This is a good post.

[Empking]

Leaving a vote on someone that you don't want lynched, isn't always dumb. Duh.

Actually yes, it is. I can't say

always

since it is possible they may be scum, but for the most part if you don't want them lynched and they get lynched, all of your motives will be in question .

Umm, because it's dumb to leave a random vote on someone who you don't want lynched? Duh.

Was afat in danger of being lynched? Would you have blamed ZEEnon if afat WAS lynched?

If I was another player and I saw 'ZEEnon' not take off his random vote and perhaps the amount of votes needed for a lynch accumulated, I would definitely be on him. I have seen scum be the first person to vote someone, with the other scum following at the end of the bandwagon.

ZEEonn: Wht was your reason to unvote other than the end of the RVS.

That was the only reason. I clearly stated that in my post, so you should have been able to read it.

That was your only reason?

Its such a dum reason I can only presume you're lying.

Unvote
Vote: ZEEonn

That's your only reason for voting me? It's such a dumb reason I can only presume you are scum.
Also. please spell my username right, this is the second time i've noticed the error.

If you want people to spell it right pick a smpler username.

[Empking]

If you want people to spell it right pick a smpler username.

I believe there are much more complex usernames . . . . .

Can I call you Zee?

[Empking]

Looking back on my vote post, I think I overreacted. (I still doubt that it was the only reason.)

Unvote

[Empking]

Vote: Sshin

- Just gut.

SK- Or town who think they overeacted.

[Empking]

I'll admit that I have no case, but when I read that, I can't help but think scum backing off a wagon that's just not going to happen.

So lacking a better choice...

Stupidest reason ever.

Vote: Sshin

- Just gut.

What triggered your gut?

Reading his posts.

[Empking]

Two posts isn't enough to build a case.

Look under Magus. It's the same person if I understood the Mod correctly.

This was somewhat annoying to read. Just sayin'.

Sorry.

I'll build a case on Shin.

Quote pyramid snipped - Mod.

[Empking]

This was somewhat annoying to read. Just sayin'.

Sorry.
I'll build a case on Shin.

I apologize for the quote pyramid as well.

That doesn't seem very sincere.

Quote pyramid snipped - Mod.

[Empking]

I apologize for the quote pyramid as well.

That doesn't seem very sincere.

What should I do to make it sincere?

And how's that case coming?

Coming along nicely. I'll post it tomorrow.

Quote pyramid snipped - Mod.

[Empking]

And how's that case coming?

Coming along nicely. I'll post it tomorrow.

Quoting for reference so no one forgets.

Don't you trust me?

First four posts – All in the random stage. Apparently 2 random votes though it looks like the last one was serious and he backed out from it to me. Either way it’s a scum tell with no town tells.

Fifth post – In this post Magus considered putting someone at L-3 scummy. Yet despite not having a vote on anyone seems afraid to vote IH.

Sixth post – On this post there is a strawman and a silly “out of three people one of them is likely scum” thing.

Seventh/Eighth Post – Useful (though with a mistake)

Ninth post – Correcting the mistake.

Tenth post – In this post Shin dodges two questions and completely contradicts what he’s previously said.

Eleventh – This post is long but doesn’t really say much.

Twelfth – A waste of a post.

Quote pyramid snipped - Mod.

[Empking]

Quoting for reference so no one forgets.

Don't you trust me?

Yeah. I just wanted to make sure I remembered. Just in case.

Anyway, I'm curious to see Shin's response.

God, I thought I hadn't posted it when I saw your quote.

Quote pyramid snipped - Mod.

[Empking]

God, I thought I hadn't posted it when I saw your quote.

Thought you hadn't posted it? Sorry, I'm a little confused what you mean by that.

Oh. Never mind. I took it out because i only quoted what I was responding to.

Yeah, I presumed you did that.

Quote pyramid snipped - Mod.

[Empking]

Oh. Never mind. I took it out because i only quoted what I was responding to.

Yeah, I presumed you did that.

Yeah. It's easier. Sorry if it confused you.

It didn't really confuse me as such.

Stopitstopitstopitstopitstopit - Mod.

[Empking]

Yeah. It's easier. Sorry if it confused you.

It didn't really confuse me as such.

Ok. I know I get scared if I make a case and think I lost it.

Yeah, that was it.

Quote pyramid snipped - Mod.

[Empking]

Mod: Can you add "no accidently posting with an alt" to the rules and "no having fun because Shin moans a lot" or take away all the rules.

[Empking]

Shin, you've posted twice can you please defend yourself.

[Empking]

Nameless: I don't mind, I'd just like the rules in the first post.

Shin: So instead of answering my points you just attack me. My gut was definately right. Also don't use the letter E in your post as it distracts me because it causes me to think "Shine"

[Empking]

ZEE: A second vote isn't a bandwagon.

[Empking]

I'd like Shin to post first.

[Empking]

Shin's reaction ddn't seem pro-town to me.

[Empking]

ZEE: A second vote isn't a bandwagon.

My definition of a bandwagon is someone voting for someone for no reason, basically because one other person has voted for them.

Zeenon, Emp later made a case on Shin. Did you not see that?

Yes, but normally people make their case before, not after they vote.
Also, the case he has on him is not really that great, just stating things that players, as well as I, already feel.
Right now Shinnen_no_Me is highly suspicious, but the way that Empking attacks him warrants my vote once again.

Vote: Empking

.

No, you started feeling them after I made my case.

[Empking]

KMD: Do you think making BS defences of other players is scummy?

[Empking]

KMD: Do you think making BS defences of other players is scummy?

Depends on the specific "BS defense".

Why is that?

[Empking]

KMD: Do you think making BS defences of other players is scummy?

Depends on the specific "BS defense".

Why is that?

If you mean a player defending another who they think is town and have logical reasons, and you call it BS because you disagree, then no. It's not scummy.

If you mean a player defending another player and it being completely screwed up and making no sense, then yeah. They are probably defending for reasons other than thinking the player is town which is scummy.

OK

Is "its perfectly OK to not read posts" a logical reason?

[Empking]

I didn't read the whole thing.

Coupled with:

which is why I believe Shin when she says she missed it

,

KMD: Do you find you miss posts if they're quoted? What if they're not quoted on the page the post was made?

[Empking]

GIEFF: It was the one longer than a line. Do you find it difficult to find relatively large posts amidst a lot of little ones?

[Empking]

It was the one longer than a line. Do you find it difficult to find relatively large posts amidst a lot of little ones?

Yes, I do when all the posts are about 1 inch wide.

This is ridiculous.

Do you find it easier to read 1 inch wide posts?

I'm genuinely curious about this question: Why didn't you just read the individual posts?

[Empking]

Shin: Define "Starting a quote pyramid".

You want to think that's scummy

Shin's strawmanning there, as I don't think anyone is saying not seeing something is scummy. I, at least, don't believe.

[Empking]

I'm genuinely curious about this question: Why didn't you just read the individual posts?

Because they were crap. During my re-read, when I saw the first few posts of your quote pyramid, I skipped to the end. Your post came at the very end of a page, and I just didn't scroll down that far. Each post was VERY long before being edited.


Why did you say you were genuinely curious? Were you not genuinely curious about other questions?

I'll answer that but I'd like you to answer this first: Why didn't you answer the question above?

[Empking]

Do you find it easier to read 1 inch wide posts?

[Empking]

Of course it isn't easier to read 1-inch wide posts.

What are we talking about this for? Am I not being clear? Do you honestly think I am lying about not wanting to scroll down forever to watch you two talk about inane bullshit?

If you think I'm lying, vote me. If not, stop distracting the town with this. We have 4 days until the deadline. This is meaningless. Quote pyramids are hard to read. I saw a bunch of meaningless crap, and didn't want to scroll all the way down through it, as I assumed it was ALL meaningless crap. When you said you made a case, I did wade through all the crap to find the one relevant post. I brought it to Shin's attention, and she answered it.

Why didn't you answer it the first time?

I think you're Shin's buddy. Why would I vote you instead of Shin?

Shin: Why didn't you answer the case earlier than you did?

[Empking]

Why didn't you answer it the first time?

Because I am mafia, trying to dodge your airtight biting questions against me about whether I prefer reading 1-inch posts.

Can you answer it seriously?

[Empking]

I see no reason why it shouldn't be. Quoting is a convenient tool. The whole conversation is lumped together and there is no confusion as far as what we were responding to. I quote in almost every post I make. Is that scummy and/or hard to read?

Are you seriously trying to claim that your intent in creating that quote pyramid was to limit confusion?

Really?

Can you answer it seriously?

No.

As in you're physically unable to or in that you're scum trying to devoid the town from information?

[Empking]

As in you're physically unable to or in that you're scum trying to devoid the town from information?

As in I don't think you are genuinely curious in the answer, and are trying to distract the town with 4 days to deadline. But because me refusing to answer will just make you ask more questions, then here it is:

Because it was a ridiculous question. Of course it isn't easier to read 1-inch-wide posts. Your eyes have to move back and forth a bunch, and you have to scroll way down to read everything.

Now please answer my question about the genuineness of your curiosity.

Because the one above it wasn't genuine.

[Empking]

Now please answer my question about the genuineness of your curiosity.

Because the one above it wasn't genuine.

That's what I thought at first, too.

Is that why you didn't answer it?

But if it really wasn't, then why did you repeat it? And why did you ask me why I didn't respond to it?

As your reaction to it was scummy.

I think it's because you're just trying to obstruct and confuse the town, as you did with your quote pyramid. If this is wrong, then explain to me the point you were trying to make by asking that question, repeating it, and then asking me why I didn't answer it immediately.

As it made you reveal your true question by dodging the question and obstruting the town.

-----

Anyway, you say Emp is distracting us near a deadline. Is your questioning me about quoting related to scumhunting in any way?

The bulk of the "case" against Shin is that she dodges questions. You are claiming that Shin is lying when she says she didn't see Empking's post. You're claiming we are BOTH lying, and that the quote-pyramid should not have been hard to read. We are close to deadline, and I don't want Shin to get lynched for bogus reasons. I am not lying, so I don't think Shin was lying either.

And I think it's scummy to claim (read: LIE) that your quote pyramid was intended to "limit confusion." That is what you're claiming, right? That is just about objectively false. You were quoting because it was funny.

Empking, do you also want to claim that you were just making that pyramid to try to help the town understand the context?

No.

[Empking]

Now please answer my question about the genuineness of your curiosity.

Because the one above it wasn't genuine.

That's what I thought at first, too.

Is that why you didn't answer it?

Yes. As I've already said. Didn't you see me say that? I can't believe you really missed my answer. You must be lying.
.

Your answer in the other posts was that the question was "ridiculous" now its changed and you're calling me the liar. That's rich.

I'd prefer a Shin lynch to an Ac lynch.

[Empking]

Note to the other players: The part GIEFF bolded is answering a completely different question.

[Empking]

Strawman.

The bit he quoted answered this question:

As in you're physically unable to or in that you're scum trying to devoid the town from information?

The question he changed his reasoning on was this:

Why didn't you answer it the first time?

[Empking]

It is related to it, sort of, but they're different questions.

I think GIEFF is suspicious so he votes me. Wow.

I didn't answer them because they're strawmen.

[Empking]

You think

As in you're physically unable to or in that you're scum trying to devoid the town from information?

is exactly the same as

Why didn't you answer it the first time?

?

[Empking]

I voted you because you are misrepresenting the past so horribly that I assume it is not accidental.

LAL?

[Empking]

I voted you because you are misrepresenting the past so horribly that I assume it is not accidental.

LAL?

He isn't lying. >_> You asked a really stupid question, he didn't take it serious, thus why he didn't answer it the first time. Or at least, that's what I'm getting from his posts. The questions are very similar and both are really pointless.

Read the quote before my post.

[Empking]

So you didn't make this post and then post again soon after?

I will not discuss this further unless another player thinks I need to. .

No, they're not both asking that. I'll paraphrase.

1. Why didn't you answer my question?
2. Why can't you answer the above question seriously?

[Empking]

So you didn't make this post and then post again soon after?

I will not discuss this further unless another player thinks I need to.

I discussed my reason for voting you, which is not what I said I would no longer discuss.

And once again, so what? Why do you continue to nitpick and try to find inconsistencies that would be meaningless, even if true? This is not how town plays.

And he doesn't respond to the other point.

That's

not how town plays.

GIEFF is a liar. He's trying to destroy the bandwagon on Shin by any means necessary. I think its obvious that those two are scum.

[Empking]

How are they?

[Empking]

All Empking said about Shin while the case was building was his "case" in the quote pyramid, and a post about how Shin's reaction didn't seem pro-town to him.

He was happy to sit back and let the wagon grow.

Yet as soon as I started to question the wagon, and those who were on it for reasons I found shoddy, Empking started attacking ME. He didn't come right out and say it, he tried to do it indirectly, as shown in the below posts:

Indirect and leading question

Another indirect and leading question



And your last 20 posts have been a desperate attempt to get me to somehow slip up, as if an inconsistency about why I wouldn't answer a ridiculous, distracting question, is in any way scummy, or in any way reinforces your case on Shin.


If lynching Shin is your objective, talk about Shin, and address my points DIRECTLY. Townies have no reason to skulk around trying to discredit the person indirectly, without responding to their actual points.


I urge people to go back and read Empking in isolation. It becomes quite clear what he is trying to do, and it's not difficult to figure out why.

Say Mister "No I won't answer the questions despite asking you to ask me them".

[Empking]

Slicey: So I was the one asking all the Shin voters to confirm that they don't really, in there hearts of hearts want to vote for someonre else?

Slicey: What question?

Slicey: Why am I calling GIEFF a liar?

[Empking]

GIEFF felt that ac1983fan was a better lynch than Shin. He made his case, and wanted to see if anyone agreed with him. He's trying to dismantle the bandwagon cause he feels it may be a mislynch, not because of the argument he's having with you.

How do you

know

GIEFF is town?

Your question was

Do you find it easier to read 1 inch wide posts?

It's such a stupid question that GIEFF didn't feel the need to answer it, or at least that's what I'm getting from his posts. I know I wouldn't have seriously answered the question.

Is that the question, the last question was asking about.

And I have no idea why you're calling GIEFF a liar cause I don't see anywhere he may have lied other than when he says he didn't see your case. But I believe that he didn't see it. He should have been more attentive obviously. So you tell me, why is GIEFF a liar?

Then why were you defending him against being called a liar if you don't know what lie he was telling?

He's a liar because he said he wouldn't talk about it and then did just that.

[Empking]

And I'm sure I look a lot scummier now to everyone, too.

Yes.

Vote: GIEFF

- He was defending Shin, attacking Shin's attackers and trying to derail the bandwagon against Shin.

[Empking]

And I'm sure I look a lot scummier now to everyone, too.

Yes.

Vote: GIEFF

- He was defending Shin, attacking Shin's attackers and trying to derail the bandwagon against Shin.

You can't say that someone's scum just because they are defending scum, because if GIEFF was town, he'd have no way of knowing she was scum, and just didn't find her scummy. I honestly think GIEFF is town who didn't think Shin was scum and (wrongly) thought/thinks I'm scum.

There's level where you try to derail a bandwagon because you think the person is town. Trying to get a voter to vote you (you being GIEFF) is pass that level.

[Empking]

I don't agree. I don't even see how it makes sense.

[Empking]

I don't agree. I don't even see how it makes sense.

Really? What do we do if the cop dies tonight without revealing who is innocent-result was?

Oh you mean last nights. It'll still help the town hit the cop.

[Empking]

It'll help the mafia hit the cop.

[Empking]

Ac: Why the lack of voting?

[Empking]

Ac: Why the lack of voting?

Because as of right now, I don't find anyone to scummy.
Why the questioning of me as opposed to the many other people not voting?.

Because you've onlyu had one vote all game.

[Empking]

Can we get votes.

[Empking]

I don't. Please quote where I wanted day 2 to end quickly.
I don't know.

[Empking]

I think ZEEnon is likely scum and I'm getting second thoughts on you but I'm not sure yet.

[Empking]

I don't. Please quote where I wanted day 2 to end quickly.

Your post gave off an aura of "Let's hurry up and lynch someone".

Really?

[Empking]

Unvote
Vote: Gandi

GIEFF's yesterday game was very scummy but his today game is very townlike.

[Empking]

Tuber: Why is SK scummy?

[Empking]

The doc should definetely not claim unless forced to. Doc, come forth if you DIDN'T protect SK, otherwise don't claim.

I agree with this. If the doc DIDN'T protect SK, Tuber is scum and needs to be lynched. If he flips town, SK is scum, game over..

I agree and I'm not claiming.

[Empking]

Also, I'd like the tracker to claim and give us their results (especially if they were smart and followed tuber).

Not this.

[Empking]

The doc not claiming doesn't mean you're town.

[Empking]

Does anyone want to counterclaim Ac?

[Empking]

I don't see anything wrong with that plan.

I want the doc to claim.

[Empking]

I don't think that the doc should claim unless he is about to get lynched.

Let's say that we agree on lynching Kmd today and he doesn't claim doc, than the doc is still unrevealed and can protect the tracker and hopefully survive one more night.

I'm against a doc-claim today.

A doc surviving an extra night doesn't affect our odds of winning.

[Empking]

Vote: Philly

[Empking]

Seems like there's a reasonable chance. I highly doubt Empking is scum based on his aggressive pursuit of both Shin and Grandi, but then he could have just realized they were both lost causes and tried to distance himself while hitting a power role to keep himself in the game. I guess we'll see.

I don't think Drake is acting like lost the game scum so here's hoping.

[Empking]

Well done, town. (and scum).