Mini 707: Cops and Robbers Mafia (Game Over)

[Fuzzyman]

vote: Ether

for still owing me an avatar.

[Fuzzyman]

Vote remaining on Ether, because of possible attempts to make a good image for herself via the use of the word, "townish," even though it's fairly obvious that there is little to be gained by analysis of usernames. In fact, on that note, what tells, if any, do you get from my username, Ether?

[Fuzzyman]

>:O Didn't I just say that I wanted people to vote based on things other than usernames? Really, it's even worse than random voting, since we all probably picked a name when we joined solely for the purpose of manipulation. If you would be voting for me in a world where everybody's username is a random ten-numeral string, then vote for me now.

[Fuzzyman]

I realize that the others are voting off of names, but these are only joke votes. Yours is different because it attempts to associate a given name with townieness; the other people simply said something stupid and irreverent.

[Fuzzyman]

....Wait, are you being serious, Fuzz?

Yes.

[Fuzzyman]

Shutting down bad theories in a triple post. Awesome. Triple posting.

Vote remaining on Ether, because of possible attempts to make a good image for herself via the use of the word, "townish,"

Not sure how saying a word - much less when that word is townish - makes the speaker look good. Such logic would dictate that simply by saying "rich" would make you so.

Semi-strawman here. The point that I was trying to get across was more that Ether could have been trying to attach substance onto a jokevote.

even though it's fairly obvious that there is little to be gained by analysis of usernames. In fact, on that note, what tells, if any, do you get from my username, Ether?

Says that there's nothing to be gained by action X, then requests Ether to perform action X, all so he can...

... this one was more asked out of curiosity, and trying to spur discussion.

>:O Didn't I just say that I wanted people to vote based on things other than usernames?

...admonish her for acquiescing to his request.

No, I wasn't yapping at her for telling me that "Fuzzyman" had a town vibe, but rather that if it wasn't my name, she would be voting for me.

People who do X are bad! Hey, Other Player, please do X for me? Thanks! ...Other Player is bad because they did X!

I realize that the others are voting off of names, but these are only joke votes. Yours is different because it attempts to associate a given name with townieness; the other people simply said something stupid and irreverent.

Her mentioning the word town doesn't sell me that her comment wasn't "stupid and irreverent" or not a joke vote. Not quite sure how you make that leap, would like to hear it (I guess, it seems pretty weak) since it seems to be the only pillar you currently have for keeping your vote on Ether and establishing that it's a serious vote.
[/quote] I dunno. Frankly, I've always felt that once you throw around adjectives like that, the person speaking has a goal. I was probably wrong.

Mizzy: My dictionary lists "insolent" as "contempuously rude". At what point did I fit this description? And what bearing does it have on the likelyhood of me being a robber?

[Fuzzyman]

Oh, and Ether, I'm not going to like Corvuus either.

[Fuzzyman]

To be quite frank, I do have a rather low opinion of the so-called "Random Vote Stage". The fact is that as long as people have the ability to claim that their actions are nothing but randomness, the town gets absolutely nothing beyond what its luck can give it.

@Mizzy: I didn't try to get Ether to vote for me for the vote's sake. She stated that she would be voting for me if not for my name, I thought names having influence on votes was stupid, so I stood up for that principle. What don't you get?

[Fuzzyman]

unvote; vote:Mizzy

since she has failed to rebound against GC's arguments in post 49.

[Fuzzyman]

Fuzzyman: Can you please rank Corporate, q21, Ether, GC, Tisp and Mizzy using any scale of scumminess you please.

From 1-5, scummy higher, and everybody starting at 2...

Corporate -4- Eh, I would like, if not for my stupid gut. Seems sorta unproductive, but I'm going to buy the, "until we get to know each other a little better," thing for a while.

Ether -1- My conversation-sparking vote on her was admittedly quite a reach, and whatever merit she had lost in that accusation has quickly been picked back up in concise and insightful posts.

GC -2- This guy is also a likely townie, but I'd really like for him to stop bailing me out from people's attacks. I'm quitefine defending myself, and don't want to be thought of as someone who was cuddled up with you if you happen to flip scum later.

Lisp -2- I can't really say that I've gained much of an opinion of her yet. She seems to be kinda sittin' back, waiting to see who is the right vote for her. In fact, I'd like her to take part in this survey, me included.

Mizzy -4- Personally, I WOULD consider changing from "No Time" to "Already Did" scummy. Also, I hope she realizes that she doesn't have to take hours out of her schedule to answer huge things of text. There are plenty of other things to do, which need not be named here. I also don't like how she thinks less of me as town because of some of my playing beliefs.

q21 -2- He hasn't been active for long, so there's really not much to go off of. His post #88 seems like some good input, and he's asking smart questions. I've gotta say though, I still want to get more of a feel on him before I say much.

[Fuzzyman]

Yeah, I don't like Corp's vote, either. Attach some substance, please.

[Fuzzyman]

unvote:Mizzy, vote:corporate

For the exaxct same reasons as Green. The town shouldn't have to deal with people like you, clogging up the scumfinding process.

[Fuzzyman]

Ether thinks that corp is an alt made by somebody for the purpose of bad grammar. Also, I believe that any stalling of ideas is scummy, which is what he is doing.

[Fuzzyman]

Sorry. My friend was rushing me, and I phrased that wrong. What I mean is that your refusal to give reasoning for your actions hurts the town. I mean, the town should ideally have as much information about everybody as is possible, right?

Also, if you're serious about claiming jester, does lynching you cause a town loss?

[Fuzzyman]

It could also be argued that the sig is talking about ongoing games outside the thread, unless this is the only thread you've ever posted in (unlikely).

[Fuzzyman]

I call backpedalling.

Also, I gotta say that I disagree with crywolf on that. First of all, even if Ether sounded demanding when asking for our ratings, why would it matter? Town forcing others to give thoughts is good, if you ask me. Secondly, if you disagree, then at least have some backbone. Recognize that even if Ether is trying to play commander with the town, the town has no good reason to obey her, if it doesn't want to.

[Fuzzyman]

WTH?! Shenanigans? Let me explain it more clearly. You voted for Ether without a reason, were questioned about it, didn't have any answers as to why( or none that you've given us), got hammered by GC and me, then unvoted.

[Fuzzyman]

Have I not, already? Either way, what I meant was that corporate is trying to get away with voting without a reason, and then backpedalled. Also, he pretty much made a statement that he was going to ignore the latter accusation.

[Fuzzyman]

@Patrick: Because she had failed to begin on any of those bits. In retrospect, though, it could be seen as action a bit too quick on my side.

My corporate vote is based first and foremost on his denial to give us reasons for his old Ether vote, and then his unvote. Also, he is willing to sacrifice town accuracy to make the game more enjoyable for himself. He believes that it is wrong for townies to look at the meta, but OK for scum to lie about external circumstances. He defends himself with FOS's that he

never

placed. Corp is not only anti-town. He is scum.

On Simpor, though, I have to admit that I don't really have much of a feeling. His posts, as crywolf noted, have been few and far between up to this point, and he's never really seemed like a town role model or anything. However, I'm really not liking the role-hunting and lack of any real attacks on anybody. In the end, though, not even close to the amount of scuminess corp has excreted.

Also, does anybody know how to isolate a given user's posts?

[Fuzzyman]

Never mind about the last paragraph of the above post. I figured it out.

[Fuzzyman]

Ether, where is corporate on your scumminess list?

[Fuzzyman]

Simpor, who is most scummy in your book, and why?

[Fuzzyman]

Alright. I just did a run through of Simpor's posts. And I gotta say, if he doesn't just blow my mind with his reply to mine and crywolf's question, he can expect a vote from me. I'll be able to deal with corporate tomorrow.

[Fuzzyman]

I think Ether's actions are scummy and screams like scum trying to

convine

people as scum.

Do you mean "convince", "convict", or some other word that is not in my vocabulary?

[Fuzzyman]

My argument was "this post is scummy"

He argued against. "asking somebody whether or not your town is scummy" Strawman.

That was what the post was.

GC - I didn't see your post.

Not an excuse to ignore it now.

I said scum trying to convince people their town.
You argued against the too townie fallacy.

GC dealt with this in 350. You should read it.

[Fuzzyman]

Your 354 was referring to GC's 350? I guess it was just so arrogant and ignorant that I couldn't tell.

[Fuzzyman]

It was ignorant in its failure to have any regard for GC's guess as to what your train of logic was, much less his open ears to any misconception that he may have had. It was so ignorant, that I would have to quote your entire 43-word post to display that quality!

[Fuzzyman]

Just curious, but who is this, "Canary", person you keep talking to? Is that a nickname for Mister Lolipedo-Kun or something?

Also, Simpor, if you just sit there, waiting for a replacement to cover your backside, I WILL hammer him or her.

[Fuzzyman]

Put it all together: By acting in the only way that would convince us someone is town - that is, by acting town - you are saying that she is scum.

Unless if I'm sorely mistaken. By all means, explain to me what non-townie things she is doing to make us think that she is town and thereby fooling us all into thinking she is town when really she is scum doing non-townie but not-suspicious and actually really convincing seeming-like-town (but really aren't pro-town) actions.

[Fuzzyman]

I would, but I'm not arguing with your post 338. It was sound. It's when you state that your arguments continue being valid past 339 that they become unsound. Just tell GC what his misconception about your case was, and let us move on.

[Fuzzyman]

unvote; vote: Simpor

to counter Pat's unvote. I personally feel that Simp needs the pressure. I trust y'all to not make a hammer in bad judgement, and we'll be able to jump on anybody who does tomorrow, right?

[Fuzzyman]

382 is good enough for me.

unvote; vote:corporate

Back to teh awesome corp wagon.

[Fuzzyman]

Fuzzyman, what was good about 382?

He posted some actually-valid points aginst Ether, and I really like his defense against the "other cases" case.

Also, when exactly did I use argumentum ad hominem?

Thirdly, I've gotta say that I agree with corp on 407. There are many very excellent reasons to vote him, and I encourage you to do so, but that post is not one of them. In fact, I kinda took it as a prod of sorts.

[Fuzzyman]

I mostly liked his bringing-up of a possible Mizzy-Ether pairing and Ether's unvote.

I don't get Empking's train of thought either.

[Fuzzyman]

You've said in the past that you found me to be townish; I fail to see how someone defending a townish player implies that the two are scumbuddies. I think that the fact that I backed off of Mizzy is rather thin, and it's counterintuitive that you pointed it out and then voted Corporate, but I suppose there's not much else I can say about that. The fact that Simpor implicated me as a scumbuddy to Mizzy is a coincidence--though it's true that you only have my word for that--and it's scummy that Simpor is trying to use it to paint all the attacks I made against him after that point as OMGUS. Those three are all either light or outright idiotic; did I miss anything?

For me, it was never really the defense that got to me, but rather the association in general.

Are you going to argue with my assertion that I didn't repeat my many varied cases that Simpor has never been able to logically stand up to or not?

No. A lot of what he has said was indeed, as you say, painting it OMGUS.

Does my 381 seriously come off to you as, "I am starting to lose faith in Simpscum?"

Like,

seriously?

Yes.

What's your read of Patrick?

I think that he's really come off as a neutral-to town character, with better posts than the average, and hasn't really done much to be suspicious of. I'm far from voting him, or giving him a serious investigation.

[Fuzzyman]

Uggh. I need to get better at internet sarcasm [/not sarcastic]

Patrick is cool because he unvoted to get Simp off of L-1.

[Fuzzyman]

Alright. scratch that "sarcastic" remark. I'm nipping this in the bud.

I lied to get myself out of trouble when I posted that, and I should not have. I was never being sarcastic, and I do have somewhat of a suspicion towards Simpor. I have done this a couple times in previous games, and it detrimented the town in both. I am sorry for what I have done, and I now offer my explanation:

After further rereading, you are correct in that you had a decent variety of points against Simpor. Most of the happiness I gained from Simpor's response was the answering of my question. This afternoon, I intend to review whether it deserved that happiness. In fact, I believe that the other positives I gave on Simpor may just have been me trying to get an excuse to get back on the corporate train. I shouldn't have.

unvote; vote: Simpor

. Take this as you wish.

Cry: That was still a bad reason to vote corp.
Emp: I still don't remember ad homming anybody.

[Fuzzyman]

Links. I am also curious to know why you were not already aware that I was producing new cases.

Newbie 628 and Mini 628. In the former, my failure to be careful with my speech and subsequent lies led me to give up, claim scum, get lynched, and allow my partner to freeride all the way to the abandonment. In the Mini, it forced me to claim mason and end up being an easy target for scum.

And, well, I guess I was kind of absorbed in deciding what

I

thought of others for a while and in a way, skimmed the topic. I mean, I was constantly browsing it, but it never really all sank in.

I thought that between your unvote and Pat's, Pat's was better since he had stated along with the post that it was to get out of L-1. Your's, I'm sorry to say, was actually rather vague. Now that you've explained that, though, I'm all okay with you.

I still endorse a corporate lynch, would be happy with an Empking, and would not oppose a Simplynch.

[Fuzzyman]

Did I accidentally revote Simp?

(checks)

unvote; vote: corporate

[Fuzzyman]

SCUMMY
.
.
Charter
Fuzzyman &crywolf20084
Tisp & Empking
q21 & Simpor
Patrick & Mizzy & Ether & Green Crayons
.
.
NOT SO SCUMMY

Isn't charter the mod?

[Fuzzyman]

I don't get him either, but I feel I need more of a read on what exactly he wants before I throw anything at him.

[Fuzzyman]

As y'all have probably figured out, I'm willing to go to Simp if we're deadlined.

[Fuzzyman]

Unvote, Vote Fuzzyman

Lately his jumping between me and corp is a bit strange, votes for corp, votes for me and then claims he made a mistake voting me. Putting back his vote on corp, but in case of a deadline he will switch it back to me? I can't understand his point, am I or corp the scum according to him?

There's no reason you can't both be scum.

The reason for me not posting. Well, I thought that I was basically lynched.

That wouldn't be a good reason for a bank patron to stop being productive; the only role for whom it would be is a robber.

[Fuzzyman]

... So, you're not voting because you sympathise with his inability to act townish?

[Fuzzyman]

This day has now officially gone on waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long.

When should it have ended?

[Fuzzyman]

Not to mention that that was sort of an empty threat, seeing as he's only at L-2, and nobody other than you seems particularly close to moving their vote over his way.

Then again, on that thought, I'd like to know what Mykonian thinks of this mess.

[Fuzzyman]

Well, welcome anyways.

[Fuzzyman]

"FM" meaning

F

uzzy

m

an, right?

[Fuzzyman]

[quote]The way he deals with those that disagree with him is more scum-like than town-like.[/quote

Who, crywolf or me?

[Fuzzyman]

I agree with the ones that wants a deadline, from my view we are pretty much stuck now.

You only want the deadline because it would be more likely that I get lynched, as opposed to you. I know I'm gonna catch hell for this Day 2, but...

hammer: Simpor

[Fuzzyman]

vote fuzzyman

a) rather weak third vote on mizzy in post 104 (not very bad)

Ok.

b) bandwagon third vote on corporate in post 164 (just follows GC)

It was bandwagony, but that doesn't mean corporate isn't the best lynch. In fact, I still hold that to be true.

vote:corporate

c) opens the possibility to vote simpor (fifth) in post 327

Yes I did. Point, please.

d) post 379: votes simpor (L-1) after patrick unvoted, mentions later that patricks unvote was town in his eyes (was to afraid to hammer, but is on the bandwagon, for little to no reason)

I thought that Pat's unvote was town because he felt uncomfortable about having a hammer. He probably wouldn't have greived anybody had he kept his vote there, and scum would have no reason to delay the end of the day, would they?

e) after some people go of simpor, he votes corporate again post 398. No reasons. And don't say you don't need reasons to vote corporate, because you need to ask yourself the question, is corporate scum, or annoying town?

My 284 has all the reason I personally needed.

f) after 406 crywolf votes corporate too, and gets attacked for it! Could you please take a look at fuzzy too?

crywolf voted corp for the wrong reason, that being corp's /yawn post. Sure, it was kind of unhelpful, but it was nothing to match the Simpor, or even Ether case.

g) in 421 fuzzy contradicts himself: patrick is cool for unvoting, yet fuzzy votes right after that. If you see that, why don't you vote fuzzy?

Nobody said that conflicting ideals couldn't both be town, did they?

h) 424: fuzzy admits to have lied, but the defence in where he lied still keeps of the attack. I learned in my first game to lynch all liars, and in that game town was badly hurt by not doing it. Now you are letting him get away. O yeah, votes simpor again (fourth vote on simpor). No reason, just a common "he is scummy" statement. attack crywolf for the vote on corporate (pot and kettle?)

No contest, although I'm not really familiar with the expression, "pot and kettle,".

i) 458: wants to lynch everybody that is currently in the spotlights

False. I do not think cry should be lynched.

j) post 361: and votes corporate again: nothing more.

Once again, I'll refer you back to #284.

k) 484: states he also wants to lynch simpor (do you really think we don't know that you don't care who is the lynch, as long it is not you?)

I do not want you, Ether, GC, myself, or crywolf to die right now.

l) 561: and guess who votes simpor again...

Point, please.

Your argument has some validity, but not corporate validity.

[Fuzzyman]

(These are the bolded comments that Myko made upon my answers.)

The point is, that you open the possibility to jump on the bandwagon when town thinks simpor is scum. Or you stay of it, or you agree with it. Saying: "I may be on later, when he is close to being lynched" is scummy

I did not get onto him later just because more people were on him. I feel that his last post was pretty scummy.

So you put simpor again on L-1, so you have a chance the day will be shorter? And why do you leave simpor after 2 persons unvote too?

At this point, I felt that he needed more overall pressure. After Ether had unvoted, I recognized that I, alone, wasn't going to be able to exert that pressure, so I went back to my corp wagon.

ok. You think corporate scummy because he doesn't cooperate. Or is he antitown?

You mean to say that you think he's some sort of freaky 3rd-Party role?

If I'm right, some people pointed out the contradiction here. Calling an unvote good, and then vote, is weird

I've said it a couple times, and I'll say it again: Patscum would have had no reason to unvote. Simple as that.

I'm sorry: I feel you accused crywolf for something you did yourself too. Voting corporate for little to no reason, just because he plainly acts antitown.

Meh, I've already stated my reasons, so whether they are enough is kind of an opinion/judgement call. I'll just say I disagree.

you get the point, again opening your options to get on the bandwagon

Hey... how about this: Starting now, and lasting until the end of the day, either my vote stays on corporate, or I claim scum. I am seriously willing to do that if you want me to.

Your vote is surprisingly often on the person that is most in danger of getting lynched

I'd love to get into a statistical dispute about this right now, but for now I'll say that when this was true, it was for good reason.

[Fuzzyman]

I'd be glad to.

[Fuzzyman]

You vote Fuzzy because he's protected GC, who is for my money the towniest person here... there are plenty of good reasons to vote Fuzzy, and you choose this one.

Eh, although I'm all in favor of my not getting lynched, this is kinda WIFOMy. Not to mention I could've just been buddying up to him.

[Fuzzyman]

You vote Fuzzy because he's protected GC, who is for my money the towniest person here... there are plenty of good reasons to vote Fuzzy, and you choose this one.

Eh, although I'm all in favor of my not getting lynched, this is kinda WIFOMy. Not to mention I could've just been buddying up to him.

[Fuzzyman]

I accidentally knocked Empking's post out of the quote pyramid. I was arguing with him.

[Fuzzyman]

I was referring to the pyramid in 599.

As for my second scum choice, I have somewhat of a bad feeling coming off of Empking. I still don't understand why he doesn't like GC, and I still want to know when exactly I ad-hommed. He also kinda seems like he may be trying to post in a minimalist way, although that may well just be his playstyle. If I were a cop, I'd investigate.

[Fuzzyman]

Frankly, the longer that you are busy IRL, and don't replace out, the more likely he's right. Get out.

[Fuzzyman]

Do you have any reason to believe GC wasn't

really

a townie?



... You know, other than tunnel vision?

[Fuzzyman]

Didn't say it was, just that I thought you thought that it was.

Anyways, what I'm saying is that when you said that GC was pulling the wool over our eyes, you were using what you believed to be his scumminess to prove his scumminess.

[Fuzzyman]

But still, for your argument of him having fooled us day one to be valid, we need to already know for a fact that GC is scum. We do not already know that.

[Fuzzyman]

In this situation, an argument is a reason given from one person to either another, some, or all of the people in the game, with the intention of persuading them to agree with a certain idea or position.

Your argument is that GC pulled the wool over our eyes on Day 1. When you say this, you are trying to persuade us to believe that GC is scum. However, for your argument to make any sense, we have to make the assumption that GC is scum.

Since we are required to already be on your side of the argument for the argument to make any sense to us, it is circular reasoning, and will not win you any followers.

[Fuzzyman]

You've seen GC's play today and you still don't understand why I think he's scum? I could see how he pulled the wool over your eyes yesterday but not today.

Not to mention the fact that your vote is on him. :/

[Fuzzyman]

Alright. Looking back, that was not your goal in saying he pulled the wool. Even if it wasn't, it's still circular reasoning, and unproductive.

Corporate is lurking, and needs to post within the next half-hour to avoid a prod.

[Fuzzyman]

Oh, kiss my fat backside. We have no idea who has or hasn't helped lynch scum. Not until we get a scum flip, anyways.

[Fuzzyman]

And who would this be?

[Fuzzyman]

GC has only tried to lynch Simp?

Unvote; Vote: Empking

I'll tell you what, though. If you can somehow explain how this statement and GC's 417 can peacefully coexist, I'll unvote. But only then.

[Fuzzyman]

1 short sentance does not mean he was actually trying to lynch CryWolf.

Meh, you're right; that was just an emotional post. But take a look at 331.

Please point out where I said that GC was the driving force behind the Simpor lynch.

I never said that you said that he was.

Please point out where I said that GC's only target being Simpor was scummy as opposed to not helping the town.

I never said that you said that, either. I don't even see how the absence of your saying these things affects anything. The thing is, you're reaching hard for a case on GC that simply doesn't exist.

[Fuzzyman]

GC strawmans a lot. Nobody has denied or contested that. The fact that I find this behavior scummy is not reachy

Read the couple of pages right after your replacing in.

FM protects GC a lot. Again not contested. Again not reachy.

I'll protect anybody that I think is worth protecting. In this case, that person is GC.

GC was voting Myk despite not considering him in his top three. Not reachy.

Actually, I'm not sure that we know his entire top three, only that Mizzy and I are in it.

[Fuzzyman]

FM protects GC a lot. Again not contested. Again not reachy.

I'll protect anybody that I think is worth protecting. In this case, that person is GC.

Doesn't make it any less scummy.

I should be the one catching accusations for that. Not GC.

[Fuzzyman]

Which I do, at the moment.

[Fuzzyman]

Nobody ever understands Empking's play. We just do the best we can to interpret.

[Fuzzyman]

You said that the only thing on Emp was that he made no sense, so Mykonian noted his sub-par defense. Myko now wants confirmation that you are withholding your vote in spite of that, your opinions on his defense, or both.

I would personally prefer both.

[Fuzzyman]

Also, to our thus-far-wonderful mod, charter:

Could you prod Ether and corporate? I don't think they're V/LA.

[Fuzzyman]

Your vote is already on GC. Are you trying to emphasize something?

[Fuzzyman]

Oh, it's an imperative.

No. If you are able to pull a case on him out of your butt before you get lynched, then the bandwagon will come. But for now, no.

[Fuzzyman]

Somebody else said that. Even then, you know what they meant. You started speaking to GC in a confrontational manner 1 hour, 10 minutes after your first post. Which is not long.

Do you still think that Ether is scum?

[Fuzzyman]

Oh, I presumed that you would've said something if you voted for other reasons. What are your reasons for voting me?

I don't think Ether is scum.

I wasn't saying that you weren't reaching for your GC case, just that it hadn't

quite

been from the moment you replaced.

If Ether isn't scum, then who is, other than GC? I personally think you, corporate, and either q21 or Mizzy.

[Fuzzyman]

You don't see how arguing against the Too Townie fallacy is strawmanning?

Have we not already discussed that? No, I don't.

[Fuzzyman]

No, Empking. I vote you because you try to play a game other than Mini 707, find information from that other game, and try to manipulate us with it. A townie would be able to just analyze people's play in this game, question people about it, and decide whom they think is scummiest.

[Fuzzyman]

No, you're not scum because you believe in meta. In fact corporate's lack of such a belief is part of why he's scum. What I meant to get across is that you're trying to convince people of things that aren't there.

[Fuzzyman]

Once more, I never meant to speak about meta in the first place. To my knowledge, Empking hasn't said a thing about it either. I was trying to state that I believed him to be trying to manipulate others, using untrue ideas.

Instances during which I think he has done this are:

• 1. Emp stating that GC was strawmanning.
  2. Emp stating that he had given reason to believe that Ether was not really town (Inferred).
  3. Emp stating that I had stated that he had been on GC since his first post.

[Fuzzyman]

Arguing against the too townie fallacy, when nobody mentioned it, is strawmanning.

He mistakenly believed you to be using it.

Believing with meta, isn't scummy.

Your suspicion of Ether began with your first post. You did not mention meta in your first post.

When did I state that?

Your post 725.

[Fuzzyman]

Arguing against the too townie fallacy, when nobody mentioned it, is strawmanning.

He mistakenly believed you to be using it.

Any actual evidence of that? It looks to me that you're saying "GC is town. Therefore everything he does is either towny or a mistake."

(Note you never used those words.)

True or False? GC spoke truthfully in post 339. I personally believe we have no reason to believe that he isn't, assuming that we're playing innocent until proven guilty.

Believing with meta, isn't scummy.

Your suspicion of Ether began with your first post. You did not mention meta in your first post.

I don't look at meta till its presented for me. Is that scummy?

That is not scummy, but you diverge from the main point. When you said, "Believing with meta, isn't scummy," I interpreted it to mean that you had used meta in your original suspicions against Ether. If you meant something else, let us know.

When did I state that?

Your post 725.

I dsaid that was the case, not that you said it.

Yet you directed the question of whether or not you had mentioned GC in your first post at

me

.

[Fuzzyman]

Arguing against the too townie fallacy, when nobody mentioned it, is strawmanning.

He mistakenly believed you to be using it.

Any actual evidence of that? It looks to me that you're saying "GC is town. Therefore everything he does is either towny or a mistake."

(Note you never used those words.)

True or False? GC spoke truthfully in post 339. I personally believe we have no reason to believe that he isn't, assuming that we're playing innocent until proven guilty.

I'm thinking false.

I don't think the fact that we disagree with "assuming that we're playing innocent until proven guilty." theory is worthy of a vote from either of us.

Okay. I guess we're at an impasse for this one, atm. You're cool here.

Believing with meta, isn't scummy.

Your suspicion of Ether began with your first post. You did not mention meta in your first post.

I don't look at meta till its presented for me. Is that scummy?

That is not scummy, but you diverge from the main point. When you said, "Believing with meta, isn't scummy," I interpreted it to mean that you had used meta in your original suspicions against Ether. If you meant something else, let us know.

I was saying that I changed my opinion due to meta. Sorry, if I was the cause of any confusion.[/quote]

If it's not too much trouble, could we see what exactly it was that switched your decision?

When did I state that?

Your post 725.

I dsaid that was the case, not that you said it.

Yet you directed the question of whether or not you had mentioned GC in your first post at

me

.

Two things.
1. I was under the impression that, that was everyody's case.
2. Even if it wasn't, you saying it was not true was more powerful than me saying it was false. So, I was hoping that CW would re-evaluate her vote.

[/quote]

1. I don't like how you think of people voting you as a group, as opposed to a bunch of individuals, each with slightly differing reasons to be on you. Your hostility towards this group makes you seem scummy.

2. So you used me to get a vote off of yourself? Not that I would be really offended or anything, but pick your arguments wisely.

[Fuzzyman]

Agreed and Agreed. You've just earned an

unvote

.

[Fuzzyman]

Meh. Can't really blame ya. I need to work on clarity/decisiveness.

I will now begin to reread q21 and crywolf.

[Fuzzyman]

back from vacation.

Uhh... Welcome back, for now. You never told us where you were going, and charter is currently looking for a replacement.

[Fuzzyman]

Corporate: Have you reread the game? If so, what do you think of the last two weeks?

[Fuzzyman]

And

Unvote

.

[Fuzzyman]

I apologize about the absence. Once you skip a day of mafia, it keeps getting easier and easier to go on telling yourself that you'll get it done tomorrow, until you eventually become somewhat apathetic.

Anyhow, I'd kind of like to wait for corp/corp replacement to say somethings about recent activities. Until then, though:

q21: who, other than me, do you find scummy?

[Fuzzyman]

Emp - I'm still oscillating between bad town and idiot scum on Emp... In 617 he played pretty similarly to how he's playing here, in that game he was the cop. If it weren't for that I'd probably be voting for him, but the memory of that game keeps haunting me. It was painful, Emp wasn't the only one.

Then perhaps this would be a good time to claim cop myself.

Corporate is guilty and Myko is innocent.

[Fuzzyman]

When did you get corporate result, why didn't you non-stop attempt to get him lynched and why exactly are you claiming?

I got the result on Night 0, and I feel I gave a good attempt to get him out Day 1. I'm claiming because q21 was worried that he would kill a power role by voting Emp.

[Fuzzyman]

So by claiming you're proving that Emp doesn't have a power role? Such as maybe another cop, or a doctor, or a watcher, or a role blocker, or a double voter, or a seer, or a prostitute, or a mayor, or a bank manager, or a pizza deliver guy? (Okay, I pulled a few of those roles out of my butt. But my point stands.)

Unless we're in one of those idiotic, "Everybody has a power role," games, if one person has a power role, it's more likely than any other person doesn't.

and I'm happy that fuzzy didn't claim right away becuase...

If you are a GF, then you might also be happy, since the town would otherwise have lynched corp, given me credibility, and heeded my town investigation on you.

Also, please give us a fully detailed idea of what was in your role PM, as close as possible without quoting.

Crywolf: Your vote screams with OMGUSsy goodness. There's nothing wrong with leading the town, either.

vote:crywolf

My role PM does in fact refer to me as town

Compare with:

You are a Bank Patron! You just wanted to make your deposit and go about your daily business, but a robbery thwarted your plans. You have no special ability other than your trusty voting powers! You win when all the Robbers are dead.
Please confirm by PM.

Claim, please.

Also, I thought it would be good to let y'all know that I get robber/not robber results, perhaps not neccesarily guilty/innocent. I may or may not find third parties as scum.

[Fuzzyman]

I didn't mean that, just trying to ask whether cops get an incorrect on you or a guilty.

[Fuzzyman]

And okay so i assumed i was in the clear, guess not. I'm gonna post after I finish my chem and precalc homework.

I don't like that you fail to post simply because you think that the accusations against you are finally void. This yells out to me as scum trying to be unproductive.

[Fuzzyman]

If I get lynched, the game will probably go into lylo, if I counted correctly, so be careful.

I don't like the appeal to fear on this one. Maybe

you

should be careful, Mizzy.

[Fuzzyman]

Miz: Do you even know what an appeal to fear is?

[Fuzzyman]

Lady, I have now spent three days of my life playing cryptic because I'm waiting on you, and I am pretty sick of it.

This. Is that math class that started on the 20th still dragging on after these few days?

[Fuzzyman]

I investigated myself; I am indeed insane.

vote:q21

for a sloppy hammer, plus the fact that bionic is cleared and myko would have had no reason to falseclaim.

[Fuzzyman]

Well that was silly. You had an innocent investigation on someone who claimed miller. That should have been clear enough for you. There are 2 possibilities:

1. He is telling the truth. You are insane.
2. He is lying. Town would not lie about being miller after an innocent investigation. This would make him scum. You are insane.

Until my investigation, I could have been sane, and Myko could have been a lying godfather. Had this been the case, we would have two confirmed scum instead of two confirmed townies.

Empking puts up a good idea. If we massclaim and find a Doc, then they're pretty much obvscum if they survive the night. If not, they'll buy me another investigation. If that investigation gets to me as scum (meaning townie), we have enough confirmed townies to wipe the other three out.

[Fuzzyman]

Nah, the scum probably thought that I was less dangerous than Ether was townish. However, if doc doesn't claim today, and I survive Night 3, I wouldn't blame you for lynching me.

Empking: Isn't TSQ that guy with the avatar with the lips and the glass of eggnog(fas)? I don't think myself as being anything alike him.

[Fuzzyman]

The above post was a reply to your first post.

[Fuzzyman]

Yay for 2-page day.

Not to say that he wasn't scummmy, but... meh.

[Fuzzyman]

Unfortunately, my investiagtion

isn't

going to tell us anything right now. I investigated GC.

[Fuzzyman]

I disagree that I would be dead if GC was scum. Myko was more townie than me, and they almost invariably have a GF to carry them to the endgame.

I am eager to see bionic claim. I don't like that q21 gave him an innocent.

[Fuzzyman]

These are the numbers I looked at when deciding to look at GC.

If I investigated Emp/Miz and GC survived,

1/6 chance of contradicting reports, where he wins it for scum
1/6 chance of identical reports, where I die Night 4 and GC wins for scum
1/6 chance of identical reports, where a cop dies Night 4 and town wins
1/6 chance of reports on different people, where town chooses BS investigation and loses
1/6 chance of reports on different people, where town chooses good investigation at first, but BS one Day 5, and loses
1/6 chance of reports on different people, where town wins

This gives scum an overall 2/3 chance of winning. Now let's look at odds if GC dies and I investigate Miz/Emp,

2/5 chance town follows my investigation and guesses correctly Day 5
2/5 chance town follows my investigation and loses Day 5
1/5 chance town lynches me today due to bio claim, Myko reclaim, something stupid, what's happening right now, etc.

Although, in retrospect, the last option was kind of inflated, I concluded that scum was better off keeping GC. I then assumed that since it was statistically expedient for them, they wouldn't. I was deeply mistaken.

[Fuzzyman]

Unvote

Vote: Mizzy

you and fuzzy? or was bionic GF?

Why would you even ask this when Emp had already hammered and won for you?

I continue to deny having engaged in suboptimal cop investigating during this game.

[Fuzzyman]

Having just completed my post-game reread, I apologize for my statement earlier. I was in kind of a bad mood then.

There are clearly ways in which I failed my fellow banking customers. I unabashedly overthought things, and I ended up like that guy who guesses, "0," at a, "Guess Half the Average Competetition." I just never got into the minds of the scum, not to mention my complete neglect of the possibility of Mykscum. No team should have to deal with the level of incompetence I displayed.

On the brighter side, however, win or lose, this is experience. As Confucious said, everybody makes mistakes; failure to correct those mistakes, though, is the biggest mistake. I'll be sure not to make that big mistake anytime in the future.

I applaud Emp, Myk, and to an ever so slightly less extent q21, for good scum play. You guys did a great job of framing up Mizzy, and keeping Myk out of trouble for what probably would have been a full 4 days.

I had fun playing with y'all, and look forward to seeing you in future games. You guys are great mafia players and great people.

really want to nominate Fuzzyman for a title referencing his sanity, but I get the feeling from his last post here that he wouldn't actually accept it. Discuss.

I got nothing against this. Any publicity is good publicity.